#misoginy in media

[maxdibert]

cho and dean thomas are overhated because hinny is endgame

viktor and lavender are overhated because romione is endgame

tonks is overhated because wolfstar is more popular

snape is overhated because jily is endgame

and that shows a lot about the fandom. let people have their ships :( i ship some of these hated ships and it’s basically a crime; most of their arguments are “cho was a crybaby!” she was mourning her dead boyfriend who was so nice and literally did nothing to deserve that?? “lavender was obsessed” she was in love?? “18 and 14-15 is literally pedophilia!!!!1!!! i hope somebody grooms you!” WHAT?

basically, my rant was all about the fact you can’t like pairings of characters most don’t like.

Imagine validating an idea as horrible and problematic as a 15/16 year old girl who just lost her boyfriend being annoying because she cries in the midst of a terrible grieving process and post-traumatic stress. Imagine narratively complimenting another girl because that girl doesn't cry. Imagine you're JK Rowling and you say you're a feminist but all the teenage girls who behave like teenage girls in your books get a ton of criticism and bashing and you only treat positively those who fit within feminine standards or conform to men's fantasies. It's just fucking disgusting. I mean Lavender is a gossipy and normal teenage girl who likes basic teenage things and clearly she has to be an annoying creep because she likes Ron, because of course Ron is for Hermione who has more important things to do with her life like reading books and being the best in class. Because clearly, you can't be intelligent and hardworking and at the same time frivolous and feminine if you're a woman in Rowling's eyes; you have to be one or the other.

You also can't be a vulnerable teenager with emotions you can't control, or be in mourning, or be unable to know what you want after a traumatic event, or prefer to cover up for your best friend over whatever political shit you're stirring up, you have to be a tough chick who only has guy friends and who doesn't cry because big girls don't cry and who instead of solving things civilly casts spells violently and who has outbursts of a real rude bitch like Ginny, because that's what a real girl is, that's a cool girl that boys like, a girl who's not like the others, a warrior girl. In Rowling's world you can't have ovaries and feelings at the same time, it's impossible, it doesn't happen.

Y sí me encanta cómo olvidan convenientemente que Hermione es un año mayor que Ron y Harry, con lo que en el 4to libro tiene 15/16, no 14/15. Y cómo el hecho de que se lleve con Krum 2/3 años les parece fatal pero luego Fleur y Bill que se llevan 8 años y ella apenas tiene 18 cuando se conocen y Remus y Tonks que se llevan 13 y ella tiene como 22 o 23 cuando se conocen está todo bien o sea???

En fin que me da igual y que paso muchísimo, la misoginia que hay en esa saga y el tratamiento tan pobre de los personajes femeninos y cómo Rowling reduce a todas las mujeres que no se adaptan a las fantasías del male gaze o a la idea de las madres santas ultra sacrificadas a mujeres malas, inválidas o menos aceptables es para vomitar. En serio es que se podría hacer toda una tésis de lo mucho que esa señora odia a las mujeres en general y solo soporta a los estereotipos creados para que los hombres se hagan pajas en particular.

[bossbabyofficial]

[garvalhaminho]

personally i think one of the reasons why we rarely see a sapphic relationship in media is bc women are rarely seen as complete w/out a man

[heartshaped-lou]

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[chronic-high-achiever]

Over the years I’ve come to a realisation of something which others have probably already realised but I think it’s just another interesting way that society has been bashing women in media.

And that thing is the entire trope of mocking the ✨material gworls✨when their hair/makeup/general outfit gets ruined and they’re like “NOOOO MY HAIIIRRRR 😤😤😭😭” as a comedy bit bc we as the audience are supposed to react in a manner such as “haha what a silly little shallow girl worrying about her looks as first priority” and to some extent I get it but then I stop and think about it and like

I’ve started wearing more makeup over the years despite my initial reluctance due to me being, self-admittedly, something of a pick me girl and not wearing it to avoid coming across as shallow (which is a whole other thing on its own), and I’ve come to realise that it takes work; and even if you’re only doing light makeup, it still takes a lot of effort and time to meet your personal standard of appearance. Even on a light day I’ll do liquid eyeliner and foundation, maybe a bit of concealer. And that liquid eyeliner takes time; I could spend anywhere from two minutes to fifteen minutes just doing that.

So now imagine if you will, you’ve painted this portrait and you’re really proud of how it turned out. Then BY TALOS!! Somebody has thrown paint all over the canvas and destroyed it. Sure you could do it again but you really liked how this one turned out, so of course you’re upset!

I just feel that media (ESPECIALLY comedies) has really taken this ball and run with it and not in a good way. It’s always upsetting when you’ve done something good and somebody destroys it, but it’s that much worse when everyone else calls you shallow for prioritising your work when there’s supposedly bigger problems to deal with. And I’m sure there’s some link to sexism and women not being allowed to express unhappiness surrounding something as superficial as their hair being ruined but the point still stands

TLDR; Let people be upset when something material of theirs gets ruined. Doesn’t matter if it’s makeup, it still took time and shouldn’t be associated with “preppy bimbos shrieking” trope.

[bloggedanon]

@hamartia-grander that thing you've been saying the whole time wrapped up in a package nHDJSKDKS

i dont really know how to articulate this but its crazy just how many people dont even realize they dont care about female characters. all their faves are men. they never talk about girls without being led into it. and when you try to point this out to them they try to defend themselves that their faves are just the archetypes they like, despite clearly not caring when that same archetype is a woman. like i feel like at a certain point it is your problem with the common denominator if you cant find a single female character to enjoy

[cat-eye-nebula]

The age at which this bitch brainwashing begins is rather alarming. Lurk the Instagram accounts of a couple high school girls, and you’ll be shocked to see the number of comments saying “Love you bitch” or “Such a pretty bitch.”  Blame media, or movies like Mean Girls, but we, as a gender, need to be supporting one another in a manner that can only have a positive connotation attached to it. Considering all the words we have in this bloody language, are we that psychologically lazy to not think of something more appropriate to call one another?

Why Women Really Need To Stop Calling Each Other Bitches 

[maxdibert]

Fleur es mujerón. Odio como la tratan los libros y el torneo de los tres magos.

Es que Fleur es una tía chulísima y guapísima y sabemos que Rowling y su misoginia internalizada no pueden soportar a las chicas chulísimas y guapísimas porque le da un colapso de hígado cuando una se le planta delante sin pedir perdón por existir y prometer que será una gran esposa y madre para redimirse por haber osado tener belleza y carisma. Es algo que básicamente pasa con todas las mujeres de su saga que no son unas pick me o unas incubadoras con patas y dice mucho de lo resentida que está con su propio género, honestamente.

[the-butterwitch]

The fact that people go on saying that Rowling and Gaiman are equally awful is deeply connected with main character syndrome.

For none of their haters what they have done is meaningful per se. The problem is: I have based my entire character and my entire wellbeing on a piece of media and now I cannot speak about it without people thinking badly of me.

Gaiman raped women? I'm wounded because I loved good omens and now the experience is ruined to me!

Rowling has controversial opinions? I'm wounded because I loved Harry Potter and now the experience is ruined to me!

That's why for them they're the same. It's not "he raped women" and "she has controversial opinions", it's "I cannot stay in this fandom anymore and I'm the victim".

Add the misoginy to Rowling's case and the Rowling derangement syndrome, and the sole difference is the fact that everybody will forget about Gaiman in a minute, while spreading stupid lies and memes about Rowling.

[coolmaycroft]

Where is BNHA in this diagram?

*firebombs your dashboard*

[autumnteawithfriends]

One thing i don't understand about HB and HH is that, Vivziepop said it was inspired by the show Bojack Horseman. And i don't see it at all.

First is that BH adresses that Bojack is a horrible person and we shouldn't root for him, while in HH we should like Alastor,Vox,Angel Dust and Valentino even tho they did somewhat worse thing then Bojack. Alastor and Angel are confirmed to have killed people wgile they were alive, Alastor was also a cannibal and literaly in Hell. I would honnestly prefered if it was like Bojack Horseman, that even thecreators know their characters are bad people. But instead these characters are codled like little babies on their mothers lap.

Second is deffinitly the clear misoginy Viv shows through her shows. Female chracters in BjH are complex characters who don't have to be a man's armpiece, unlike in HB and HH. PC and Diane Nguyen are one my favorite female chracters in cartoon media and love their stories throughout the show. I unfortunetly can't say the same in HH and HB. Female characters are, for what i saw, reduced to 3 categories: bitch,normal/nice wife and chaotic. And nothing else. One of the best examples of these is Stella(Stola's ex-wife and Via's mom) for what i seen she mostly had the same childhood as Stolas, or even worse. Only seen for her ability to give birth to an heir and be a wife and the show hates her for that? She must have been under alot pressure to give birth to an heir, Octavia. I honnestly somewhat preffered Stella over that crybaby Stolas.

And even Vivziepop said she loved Bojack Horseman, but i can bet on all the money i have that she hates PC and Diane for trying to distance themselfs from Bojack and that she was on Bojack's side all the time.

Anyways these my thoughs only and you can tell me yours if you want to

Thanks for the ask!

Okay, something I’ll admit is that I’ve never fully watched Bojack Horseman, I’ve only seen some specific scenes on YouTube. But something I can say with full confidence is that Viv claiming her shows are on the same level as Bojack Horseman is fucking ridiculous

First of all, she can’t say her shows are in the same level as Bojack when she refuses to do serious shit that even kids cartoons do. Such as having morally grey characters, not having a black and white morality, actually giving your characters development and consequences, it’s basically a laundry list.

Yeah, Stella would’ve been an infinitely better character to feel sympathy for if Viv actually gave a shit about her female characters + didn’t try her damndest to make us feel bad for Stolas. Like, how the fuck did Viv not expect some people to actually feel sympathy for her compared to Stolas considering her backstory? Stolas is a classist, racist, monarch who enacts Quid Pro Qud on Blitz yet we’re supposed to feel sympathy for him. Yet when people for sympathy for Stella, someone who’s only really a violent person with intense anger issues at her worst (which is 100% justified to me considering her backstory) suddenly people who feel bad for her are abuser apologists (which is false)

Like, you cannot say your shows are on the same level as Bojack Horseman if you refuse to focus on any of your female characters, refuse to give ACTUAL consequences that stick, and try to make us feel bad for arguably the most vile character in the show (Stolas) without doing anything to justify it. There’s so much more I could mention but you get the point.

Thanks for the ask again, apologies that I couldn’t really cover your points about Diane and PC (Also I realize that this is more about HB then HH, but the points still count)

[sasukeless]

i really don’t get the “sns only seems romantic because of misogyny” thing, because obviously misogyny can push a writer to focus more on their male characters’ relationships, but how exactly does that explains that a relationship between two of their male characters is written as romantic?? especially since kishimoto often parallels the way he wrote straight couples with the way he writes sns (either with minakushi or with mario).

this argument only works on a superficial level, but doesn’t make sense once you think about it for two seconds. i'm tired of people weaponizing anti-misoginy and “feminist” discourses just to be homophobic.

imo the “so misogynist it’s gay” is something you can apply to stuff like death note. l and light is not written as romantic in any way but it still makes the most sense as a ship because light hates misa (and l literally tortured her). so l and light with their rivalry and being on each other’s level looks better ofc

claiming narusasu is only romantic because of misogyny just downplays the entire care and development that goes into their relationship that has romantic tropes and like you said parallels even canon romantic couples in the text itself. again, naruto’s female characters suffer kishimoto’s misogyny that’s also a fact. but media can be misogynist and gay snd these are not related to each other despite working in parallel lines. many of such cases out there i fear

[carlyraejepsans]

Thoughts on transfem sans?

ehh I'm sorry, I don't think i could get into it. i feel like the way his character plays on certain tropes is meant to evoke this... image of sleazy masculinity that falls just short of the more common examples of the trope in popular media (mainly by uhhhhh doing away with the misoginy LMAOO).

the accent, the general air of unkemptness, the literal scene dedicated to him waltzing into a bar while everyone there is like "heyyy, it's our favourite guy! everybody loves this guy". it all builds up. of course, sans is an infinitely more complex character than this, and these moments are undermined and complemented by his sillier, more heartfelt side. in a way, i could argue that sans is a subversion of the greasy bar-popular guy trope. but i think being comfortable in that masculinity is still a non insignificant part of his character. it fits him like a glove, and he carries it around with the same ease he carries everything else about him. so... I don't really see him changing it or being substantially feminine in any way. it's not so much about "being a cis man", as that masculinity itself that is just, well, part of his persona. which is why you've seen me joke about him being a bulldyke or a transman in the past. they're both identities that center masculinity.

[esereblog]

On a similair note: you don't need random bad guys threaten to rape a female character just to show that they're "bad guys/evil". There are plenty of other ways to show that they are morally compromised than going for that lowball.

did you all know you do not need to have male characters threaten to rape your female characters to show us that the female characters are "badasses who won't be victims".

Pro tip: it doesn't matter how badass your character is, that doesn't mean they can't be a victim. Victims don't fucking deserve what happens to them and it doesn't mean they're weak.

[beatriceportinari]

I’m new to fanfic and fandom, and I wanted to know how fanfic writers were/are conservative and misogynistic 👀

Gonna limit my answer to naruto ones bc these are the ones i've read the most of but i've seen other ones to know the phenomenon is widespread. This is also not even a problem unique to fandom, you're gonna bring more or less conscious biases to any way you interact with media with

What's unfortunate in fandom is that most author will see themselves as pretty progrressive, showing fics as by and for minorities, etc. so the disconnect is like. sadder or funnier to see depending i guess.

in naruto stuff this is influenced obviously by how conservative the original media is. kishimoto's politics themselves are conservative and everything from women's treatment in the show to the keeping of the political status quo as thr ultimate goal of the show is evidence of this. again this is not a problem unique to naruto.

most people in fandom are more or less aware of this and go abt treating it in various ways in fics. of course not everyone can or want or even should write 300k words on what new policies konoha need. but the way people "fix" things in naruto is usually just by adding more gay people, and not even written well often.

i get it sometimes you're just here to jack off, love to see the ninja presidents filled with eggs and what not. but this means that

1. it doesnt really 'fix' anything else. if the gang is going to rain country and go well it's sad that konoha blew up the country during a war with someone else but they shouldnt be mean in return : ( I dont care that they're sucking and fucking afterwards. See also most mission fics where the 'ennemy' is some rando who got fucked over by konoha and is given no interiority and killed immediately. Glad the mc's boyfriend was saved from his evil.kidnappers i guess but come on. bonus points if the author adds in some racist element that wasnt even in naruto. watch your physical descriptions guys !

2. the fact that most fics are focused on shipping guys together (tale as old as time) means that there are a set of trops reused from forever that never get questionned. from the nagging wife being cheated on to the vapid lady trying to get the mc's man to just. embarassing and surface level writing of gay people. again usually the author adds in some misoginy that wasnt even in naruto ! which is crazy.

Again i dont expect every author or poster to fix everything (i'm not reading naruto fics for moral edification) but some. awareness of what mefia they're playing in anf what trop.le they're using would 1. not make your fics less progressive than kishimoto 2.make the story more interesting.

[da-janela-lateral]

Sometimes (by sometimes I mean unfortunately often) I see people hating on Tsubomi on other sites and all their arguments literally are only misoginy and poor media literacy. I can prove it right now I don't even need my manga.