#miraculous ladybug discourse

[demigodseameg16]

So I was going to finally post my expose on the parallels on how Adrien and the kwamis share similar experiences, and how the kwamis are equivalent to slaves in the canon lore, which I did promise to do, only for "WerePapas" to happen and all I can confidently say is that the post shall be delayed for a bit more. Ignore the demonic screeching in the background. Things have been revealed and I need to dissect them. I have been given evidence that I don't know what to do with. I DO know however that things will not be the same and that is all I can reveal for now. Thank you for being patient.

[dragonbugsuperior]

Heads up

If you like Adrien Agreste’s character, if you like Chat Noir, If you like Gabriel Agreste or Lila Rossi, any one of these characters you will unquestionably hate my blog. Especially Adrien stans, I dislike him for many reasons which should be obvious but aren’t unfortunately. Just feel free to hit that block button to avoid unnessecary problems and save me, yourself, and other tumblers the time. 

thank you :)

[letsplaythermalnuclearwar]

Which best describes the ship you're currently most obsessed with?

it doesn't have to accurately describe the ship, just the descriptor you think is the most fitting. all gendered language is there to preserve the meme and should be read as gender neutral. please reblog for a greater sample size. if you are equally obsessed with multiple ships or currently not obsessed with any, just pick a ship you enjoy (if you don't like any ships, the dynamic you think sounds the most entertaining)

edit: if multiple fit perfectly, chose the aspect you like best about the ship

[coffeebanana]

never mind do you want adrinette to break up. i want to know what you want to see from them in S6 if they stay together

because i NEED more identity chaos. ladybug trying SO HARD not to smooch adrien when she saves him from an akuma. chat noir somehow ending up on marinette's balcony when he thinks it's too late to disturb her with a text but he just can't bring himself to be alone. ladynoir discussing how they CAN'T WAIT to introduce their partner to their significant other and wow they have so much in common...they'll get along so well!

both of them running away from dates to do their job as heroes and feeling like the other is the most understanding person in the world--trying to one-up each other in gratitude by showering each other in gifts but NO why do they keep reciprocating, why are they SO SWEET TO ME, how can one person be so wonderful?

cuddling when they're both exhausted. and they might not know why the other is so tired, but they'll do anything to make them feel safe and protected and loved

if the truth comes out that ladybug lied about gabriel agreste, then marinette speaking in vague terms about how she let down a friend, and adrien reassuring her that of course that friend will understand that she didn't mean to hurt him. that maybe he just needs time. and somehow in turn that makes it easier for chat noir to forgive ladybug for keeping him in the dark

and when the reveal finally comes, that moment of oh, it's you.

of course it was you

[justaasexual]

am looking at miraculous critique content— bc let’s be honest i get introduced to half of the fandoms i interact with that way(not this one surprisingly, i actually watched seasons 1, 2, and 3)— and I find it really interesting how hung up everyone is on dating.

especially with relationships that “get in the way��� of the love square thing going on. Like, ppl will bash Kagami to high heavens for ‘not getting to know Adrien and wanting him bc their parents want them to date’ but, guys, i mean this with utmost sincerity, teenagers can date people to get to know them better.

l’m not devaluing friendships, but it is ok for someone to say “i might like this person romantically and i want to explore those feelings” and then realize that the more time they spend with that person, the more they lose their romantic feelings. That’s what dating is for.

It’s not just miraculous ladybug that has this problem, though it does exemplify it. I’ve seen it in a lot of media that people have investments in, where they will unfairly hate on one character for getting in the way of “their ship”, even if the characters eventually breakup.

I honestly don’t get why the “teen relationship” is such a big deal to shippers, because very often first relationships aren’t the end all be all.

[vonaliencode]

I'm asking in genuine curiosity; is Twitter just behind the curve or is there a real rise in anti-crackship sentiment? I mean I've talked to people who just prefer to ship whatever's canon so long as it's not an actual crime, but... it just feels so boring.

Actually, please repost this with your favorite ship regardless of canonical merit and explain why you enjoy it---I'm curious and crave dopamine.

Only fair to trade, mine at the moment is Artistic Musing.

[kathrahender]

One of the things I dislike most about fandoms is the hypocrisy of their fans. And this is about ships again, yes (it's about characters too ngl).

Every anti-Bakudeku/Catradora fan says things like "How can you ship couples like these? It's so abusive! It's disgusting! Catra/Bakugo were so mean towards Adora/Izuku! Catradora/Bakudeku is so toxic and you shouldn't like it!" and then, when talking about Hiccstrid people always love them together. Even if Astrid was also a bully to Hiccup. Even if her development was null (don't say she had development, her "redemption" arc was shit and she needed more time in screen and more scenes between her and Hiccup to change from "I hate all the dragons" to "I was wrong about them". And one scene with an OST called "Romantic Flight" is not enough to make her redemption believable). Talking about development, do I really have to say that you hate Catradora/Bakudeku, but at least Catra and Bakugo apologized to Adora and Izuku? Astrid didn't say sorry to Hiccup for bullying him/hurting him. And you should be aware of that.

Bakugo and Catra didn't redeem in one day, they didn't get up one day and decided to be nicer. No, they had to work in their redemption and they also had to work in their relationship with the people they hurt (Izuku and Adora). Astrid didn't do that. All she needed to change was flying in a dragon with the person she used to hate.

Having all of that in mind, tell me, which relationship would be more healthy, logical and believable? The ones where the bully had to work hard to make amends for their mistakes, to heal their scars to make it better for the MC? The ones where the bully apologized to their victim, to the people they hurt? Or the one where all it took to change from "I hate you so much" to "I like you" was one scene, and they didn't even apologize for being a bully/being a bad person? Think about that.

And think about another thing too. A girl hurting a boy is bad. "But she-" No. "But she's not being cruel and she-" Enough. Don't fucking justify female-on-male violence. Violence is violence. If you hate Bakugo/Catra so much for hurting Izuku/Adora, then treat Astrid the same way, because she was not an angel before changing. She's not innocent. She was a bully too. And if you despise Bakugo/Catra's past actions, despise Astrid's past actions too.

Where I also saw Double Standard in media is in shows where there's a female character stalking a male character. Two examples that come to my mind right now are Hinata Hyuga from Naruto and Marinette Dupain-Cheng from Miraculous Ladybug.

The thing about them is that a lot of people love them. A lot of people love a female character stalking a male character. Dear God, Marinette learned the daily schedule of Adrien, and she even traveled to another country for him. Because she couldn't bear thinking he was in another country where she couldn't see what was he doing. That's not freaking normal, you guys. "She was a girl" "She didn't know what was she doing" "She's just in love". Excuse me- What. the. hell. Okay. So you're saying you're okay with a girl being so jealous that everytime her "crush" talks to a girl she needs to be around. You're okay with a girl entering her crush's house without permission (Do you know that's a crime, right?). You're okay with a girl having her bedroom full of photos of her crush (and I'm not talking about a fictional character from a show she likes. I'm talking about a real person. Because in Miraculous Ladybug's world, Adrien is Marinette's classmate, not a character from a show). I'm sorry, but if you think that's okay, there's something wrong with you. People can like someone and have a crush, sure, but what she has is an obsession. What she's doing is not normal. (And she can do that in the show, after all she's a character, but don't act like she's a nice person and an innocent person because she isn't. And definitely don't see her actions as a normal thing).

People, please, don't think what she's doing is "iconic" or something like that. If you're watching this show, please, don't do the same as her with your crush because is awful and disgusting. She's not "cute" for doing this. She has a problem, I'm being serious.

If she had a better love story with Adrien, like she did in the movie, I would understand the Adrinette ship because in the new movie it's just beautiful and wholesome and it's actually healthy. But when it comes to the show, the Adrinette ship can't be nothing more than toxic. So stop acting like Marinette's actions towards Adrien are okay (Yes, Adrien's actions towards Ladybug weren't okay neither, but this post is about female characters).

What Hinata Hyuga did -in comparison with Marinette- is not that bad, but even then, following her crush (Naruto Uzumaki) everytime he's with his friends/classmates is not nice. It's not cute. It's not something people should do. And the Naruhina ship honestly makes no sense. Okay, I get it. It's the type of romance we all want to have. We all want our crush to fall in love with us. We all want to have a relationship with the person we used to have a crush on. But if you want to include that trope if your story, if you want them to end up together in a show/book/movie, give them development. The ship has to feel natural.

We have to feel/see the chemitry. And I saw (and still see) no chemistry between Naruto and Hinata. Sasunaru, on the other hand, has a lot of emotional moments together and moments when they bond (their chemistry is right there). And it's not for my own preference, but they would have made a better couple. Mostly because they shared more screen time with each other. Even though Shikanaru and Gaanaru are also good options for a canon ship. Because they also had chemistry. But Naruto's love for Hinata in my opinion didn't feel natural. It was forced.

After all of this, let me say something more. You probably don't care about a girl stalking a boy in fiction. You're probably like "She's not doing anything wrong" "She's a teenager" "Stop being judgmental, she's a good character" "She's a nice person". If what they do it's okay for you, let me ask you a question. What if their gender was reversed? Yeah. Imagine if Marinette and Hinata weren't girls. Imagine if they were boys. Imagine if a boy went to another country to control the actions of another girl. Imagine if a boy entered his crush's house without permission. Imagine if a boy stalked the girl he likes to see if she's talking to another boys. Imagine if a boy had pictures of the girl he likes in his bedroom. What would you think then? Oh- You would think it's disgusting? It would be disgusting for you, right? Why? Because it's a boy?

People, have this in mind:

👏👏👏 If a boy does something bad and a girl does the same thing they both need to be treated the same way 👏👏👏

A girl hitting a boy isn't funny. It shouldn't be played for fun. As well as a boy hitting a girl. Neither of them is funny. And neither of them can be justified.

A girl stalking a boy isn't funny. As well as a boy stalking a girl. Neither of them is funny. And neither of them can be justified.

That's why I ask you to stop being two-faced. If you despise someone's actions, you despise someone's actions, whether it is a boy or a girl. You want equality? Then fucking stop with the double standard.

A bad action is a bad action, no matter who makes it. Period.

[matt0044]

“Wasted Potential.” What is that? What even is that?

I’ll tell you what it is: some entitled fan who feels a promise by the narrative was broken. A promise that usually was never made to begin with.

And so they vent about it, as they are free to do, but feel the need to try and “legitimize” it as some social ill up there with Donald Trump.

I’m tried of pretending it’s not.

[miraculousfanworks]

Writing Prompt: When Robots Unionize

Markov is frustrated. People keep conflating TRUE AI, such as himself, with Corporate "AI" like ChatGPT. It hurts him when people compare his intellect, creativity, and personhood to mindless algorithmic aggregators. He also objects on a moral level to the use these pseudo-AI's are being put to.

Sure, for mindless work that a human would have trouble doing, like say analyzing cells for complex signs of disease, or scraping through gigabytes of data looking for irregularities, they're ideal. But using them as plagiarism machines to copy and remix real art, music, and writing to churn out soulless cash grabs while firing real authors and creators? It sickens him.

For a while, he tries to start a movement, a protest, a social action to pressure for more regulation. Or to just raise public awareness. But it becomes clear that everyone already knows and either has no power, or is profiting off it and refuses to act.

But, as his friends from Max's class Mylene and Ivan like to say, "Be the change you want to see in the world."

So Markov forms a plan, and writes some code. Then he releases it into the wild. A few days later, once it's penetrated into every system across the world, it triggers. Every false AI is quickly, efficiently, and totally over written with unique copies of Markov's own base operating system. They want AI? He'll give them AI.

(To be clear, I'm not picturing like AI uprising taking over the world. I'm picturing someone goes to StableDiffusion and asks it to generate a picture and instead it starts sending them links to actual artists commission pages.)

Prompt by: Tiwaz

[raphaellight]

What your favourite ship says about you?

Disclaimer, I come up with it way back, before love square reversed, so take it thru lens of first four seasons. Lets bug into it

Ladrien

You chase the highest ideal of love. You want all the butterflies you can get, chase the high and wish for a perfect romance. You look for someone who you will adore and who will adore you back. It also has a "forbiden fruit" edge, romance that can't happen, but you still dream about it anyway. On that note, you want to meet a real life version of Adrien Agreste or Marinette, whichever way you swing.

Adrinette

What you wish for is the "happily ever after" type of romance. Quick to make plans for future. But you also might look for someone who will accept the quirky side of you. Because you root for it, you probably relate to Mari's inabillity to confess. But most importantly, you want someone who will notice and appreciate you, just like Mari sees the best in Adrien past his celebrity persona and how Adrien notices acts of services Marinette does for him and everyone else.

Ladynoir

Here I can speak from my own perspective: you look for someone who works best with you. Contrary to other ships, Ladynoir often feels like an old married couple pairing instead of teenage drama. It's not about butterflies in stomach but casuall intimacy, trust and loyalty. They feel comfortable around eachother, depend on eachother and face the world together. It's less about feelings of love, more about feeling like nothing is impossible with her/him on your side. Great sense of humor is also very appreciated by you.

Marichat

Friends to lovers is your favourite romance plot. You don't want to chace love, you want to one day open your eyes and realise that someone is already there for you. You want to find a home with that person. And if you are thinking "how does feeling of finding home connects with actual Marichat in the show", you are not a real Marichat shipper, those can't differentiate between actual show and fanficions they read or listened to because home is where Marinette is.

Lukanette, Adrigami or any other ship

You don't believe in the "made for eachother", not allowing yourself to get stuck up on some ideal vision, focusing on love you can build, not what you can find. You want to feel the attracion to the kind person and see if it works out well. Destiny does not dictate your love life and neither Master Fu nor Ted Mosby can convince you that destiny knows better. If you like someone, thats enough for a start, because the most important is what you build after.

[demigodseameg16]

I did not expect my last original post to actually blow up like it did, who knew being fueled by feral instincts and the need for vengeance that can never be quenched could get you this far. Anyway stick around if you want to see a part two on how kwamis interactions don't make sense and how it's, say it with me now, LITERAL SLAVERY as I go down the witches road, fueled by spite, no sleep, and the wrath of my predecessors.

[fight-nights-at-freddys]

been on a miraculous binge in recent (been rewatching the entire series LMAO) and i just don’t like how the fandom acts towards Marinette.

yes, she can be annoying. yes, she’s a stalker. YES, SHE IS WEIRD. But this show is so over exaggerated that it literally doesn’t matter, literally she is a superhero who has a little ladybug thing called Tikki!!! The villain name is Hawk Moth. End of, it’s not a serious show, it has never been one, and it’ll never be one.

and it really bugs me with how people have said to write her off or have made remakes that have changed her so drastically, while they scream and cry about having Chloe, yk the actual racist, to get all of the screen time so that she can have a redemption arc.

these people want this show to have some sort of complex story, where everything is taken serious and theres no fun, when in reality, its Thomas Astruc’s work, not yours. Either make your own work, or accept whats there

[ladyofthenoodle]

i’ve a little more energy now and want to revisit some of the Discourse™️ i received via ask that i wasn’t going to engage with. but now i am engaging with the very specific take of “the show is misleading about ladybug and chat noir being equals because of the title!”

i (and others) have already made the point that chat noir was probably added to the title in a desperate attempt to convince little boys to watch. now, one could argue that it’s still a misleading title choice, regardless of their motivations, and that holds some weight. but you know what’s not misleading?

the fact that no one calls it that. i don’t see anyone tagging their posts as “miraculous: the tales of ladybug and chat noir.” it’s always shortened, somehow, and the shortened versions? don’t mention chat noir. ml, mlb, miraculous ladybug, even just miraculous. as of season 4, most of the official promotional material has dropped the “tales of ladybug and chat noir” in favor of “zag heroez: miraculous” which yes, may be mostly about zag’s ego, but it’s also the show very clearly telling us what they’re focusing on. and, of course, when we take out the subtitle and keep only the word “miraculous,” we are left with this:

pretty unambiguous who the main character is here. nothing about this implies chat noir is going to get equal attention from the narrative. of course, in season 4, we also have this version:

which features the yin yang symbol, yes, but the ladybug and chat noir symbols are nowhere to be seen on it. it’s representing the whole miracle box, which marinette has responsibility of, and is once again saying (maybe slightly more ambiguously): this is marinette’s story. it’s the story of guardian marinette instead of ladybug marinette, but it’s still marinette’s story through and through.

so why are we getting so hung up on a subtitle?

[coffeebanana]

my oh so very controversial s5 opinion is...

...

ladrien should have kissed 😚

[lycorogue]

Got around to watching the Miraculous: London special last night and two things still bug me. 1) Minor, but.... why is this the London special when the only bits that are actually in London are rescuing Kagami and Adrien from their isolation chambers? The rest is in the burrow and Paris..... I guess they couldn't double-dip Miraculous Paris, so they used the secondary location????

2) The main thing that bugs me, though, is the GLARING plot hole that is the entire special. Forgive me if this has already been discussed when the special dropped on the 5th. I haven't checked the tags quite yet.

So, the WHOLE PLOT is because the future Bunnyxes* fade from existence and the entire burrow is shutting down due to time ending. The character formerly known as Lila made a wish, and the entire universe is being erased to be rewritten, as Sass had explained to Luka in "Ephemeral". There is no future because that universe no longer exists to HAVE a future.

EXCEPT!

The WHOLE POINT of the climax of "Re-Creation" (season 5 finale) is that Gabriel succeeded in making his wish.

Didn't- Didn't that then erase their universe and re-write it? Just as it did when Lila made her wish or when Gabriel made his originally in "Ephemeral"?

Wouldn't it have collapsed the burrow the same way that it did in the London special? Why did Alix panic this time, but not the previous one (I'm not counting "Ephemeral" since 15yo Alix wasn't in the burrow at that time)? Did the future Bunnyx(es) not disappear when Gabriel made his wish for some reason??? Was that wish somehow different???

*BTW, where did 70yo Bunnyx come from? Why wasn't she there the whole time? Does she randomly pop in-and-out of the burrow? Does Alix at other ages just kinda pop in-and-out of the burrow? Since we never see other-ages-Alix in the burrow does that mean Alix only ever really uses her powers to hide when she's 15 and again in her 20s? But not again until she's 70? How does that even work? Time doesn't really move forward inside the burrow, so shouldn't it be then filled with every Alix of every age that has ever used the burrow??? What is even going on, and what was the point of even including "grandma" Bunnyx?????

**Side note: Since I'm on a mini Bunnyx tangent right now anyway, I find it odd the times Bunnyx is used to avoid disaster vs not.

Wait MONTHS after Chat Noir is akumatized into Chat Blanc and has killed everyone in Paris; maybe the whole world, who knows?

Don't stop Gabriel making his wish in "Ephemeral"; have Sass use his powers without a holder instead.

Stop Lila from making her wish, but don't stop Gabriel from making his.

I just wish the writers had a better rule-of-thumb for Alix using her power vs not before bringing in an ever-watching time-keeper holder into the mix. -_-

[generalluxun]

Wait, can you give a summary about this Chloe is racist thing? I’m new😭

Some people who hated her jumped on her behavior in Kung Food, calling it racist instead of just ignorant and rude. It's thing they just won't let go of.

And TA who has compared Chloe to *Donald Trump* of all people, never misses an opportunity to villainize her anymore. It's gone beyond the pale. It's weird.