#maladaptive daydreaming and plural

[sawyer-is-eepy]

MaDD and plurality

okay so we're MaDD, right?? and we're also plural??

NOBODY talks about how freaking hard that makes communicating omg.

constantly i'll be trying to talk to someone and then i drift off and suddenly they are completely drowned out OR they're ALSO daydreaming!! it's so frustrating, because it means that to even semi-effectively communicate, i have to talk out loud. if i have to communicate something important and we're in a public place i just have to focus REALLY hard on internal communication and it sometimes STILL doesnt work.

on top of that, we have ADHD so it's even harder, and talking out loud still doesn't work that well because without another person physically here to snap me back to reality whenever i'm daydreaming, if i start daydreaming, i'm just stuck until i realize, which can be anywhere from within a minute to literally 20+ minutes. usually they're able to get my attention by that time, but it's hard because our communication is not easy for anyone but the host(me, who is ALWAYS fronting) to initiate, so unless i actively open myself to communicate with them, it's hard for them to get my attention. sometimes my daydreams even last hours, but that usually doesn't happen when i'm not actively deciding to daydream. so yeah, it's really difficult because i've already got issues focusing, and adding basically irresistable urges to daydream at random that get triggered way too easily on top of that, inner communication is SO HARD.

anyways, this makes making a tulpa really fucking difficult because forcing is really hard.

but here are my tips, for other MaDD, especially anyone making a headmate/alter/tulpa/parogen/whatever themself -

incorporate your daydreaming into the communicating/forcing. like daydream you and that alter hanging out and then communicate via that. this does not ensure that you won't start daydreaming about anything else, but it lessens the chances. if you try to force yourself to not daydream at ALL the urges are gonna be much harder to ignore, at least for me. if you're ALREADY daydreaming, and it gets interesting enough, minor distractions are gonna catch your attention less and less because you WANNA focus on this one daydream. it becomes much more enjoyable.

this kind of like the last one, but this is more specific to tulpa/parogen forcing. don't really view it as a chore, which i've accidentally been doing more and more. not a chore i dislike, but i've been viewing it like something i have to do every single day for x amount of time other wise it wont work and it'll fail horribly and everything will be ruined, when it shouldn't need to be that. it shouldn't be on a to-do list, unless that really works for you(which if that's the case that's freaking awesome and you should probably ignore this tip). idk about everyone else, but it's much easier for me to daydream if i'm treating something like something i need to do because it's so much more tempting to just go live somewhere else for a minute while i do things i need to do. i often daydream doing chores because it's not interesting enough to keep me grounded. so, to make sure it gets done, i drift off while i'm doing it, so i am doing it in the real world but to me i'm in another world or in one of my stories. but for forcing, to be able to do it, you HAVE to be constantly aware and present. if you view it like you're just having a fun little conversation with them, it becomes like whenever you're bored or lonely just like you would reach out to a friend, but instead you're getting some talking to your head friend in. even if it's not traditional forcing, it works and develops them more, even if it's just a bit here and there. idk about everyone else, but i think partially because of my ADHD and partially because of my MaDD, whenever i have a chore i need to do i kind of put it off if i'm already doing something. i don't really *want* to put it off, but i just can't get my body to move. especially when I'm daydreaming. because, why would i get up and do the boring thing when i can watch my story in my head ? it's so much easier to sit and do nothing. but as we all know, that ADHD paralysis is so so SO stress inducing, the best option is to always get up and try to force yourself to. idk if non-ADHD MaDD will relate at all though, because that paralysis is mostly exclusive to those with ADHD afaik, but for me, my MaDD makes it much worse. anyways, that probably didn't make much sense sorry

write down what everyone is saying. this makes it much easier to keep track of what they are saying and stay present, but it also documents the conversation as well. so even if you weren't that present during the conversation, or you're worried you'll forget something important, you'll have a record to read back on later if you need! and also with created alters/headmates, keeping track of their progress is always incredibly important!!

don't listen to music! this one might be a bit of a given but unless it's like instrumental music that you genuinely won't pay that much attention to but still helps you focus, DON'T listen to it. songs are an easy gateway into a daydream. ESPECIALLY songs with lyrics, even ones that you can't understand because they're in another language, which by the way for literally any other thing you need to focus on, that's a great tip, listening to music in other languages, because you can still focus with interesting music in the background but the lyrics arent grabbing you at all. anyways back to plural-related MaDD tips, yeah, don't listen to music. even if that song usually doesn't catch your attention. for me, if i'm talking, internally or externally, and there's music with lyrics playing, i reallyyy cannot focus on what i'm(or others, again, internally or externally) are saying. idk, might just be some sort of auditory processing issue related to my ADHD but i cannot focus on it, and because it's hard, i just need to pick one, and sometimes my brain picks the song and i just. stop talking. and start daydreaming.

idk what to do if you're not fronting and trying to communicate with whoever is fronting, because i've not switched(like i mentioned before, the host, who is me, has never not been the one fronting), but if anyone has any other tips either related to that or the ones i already have here, please feel free to let me know because i'd love to hear them and i'm sure others do too!! anyways, i hope i helped, idk this might be too specific to me.

[justaboymadeofhoneyandglass]

y'all. please please please, do not just be weird. be complicated too. have a bunch of different pronouns, have a dozen names, have a hundred labels for you experience or have not a single one because it's too complicated to even explain

Be complicated, and be complicated with courage

[bokuwaamdallla]

Exomemory

pt: exomemory

exomemory is a general term for memories that the body did not experience. it can include, but isn't limited to: plurality, kins, immersive daydreamers, and more

this flag is inclusive of transplurals, transcharacters, transmemories, etc. if you don't support or like any of these, you can still use this flag, just don't be annoying

Exotrauma

pt: extotrauma

exotrauma is a general term for traumas that the body did not experience. it can include, but isn't limited to: plurality, kins, immersive daydreamers, and more

exotraumas can affect someone so much as traumas that they bodily experienced, specially for those who still feel connected to this trauma in some way

this flag is inclusive of transplurals, transcharacters, transtraumas, etc. if you don't support or like any of these, you can still use this flag, just don't be annoying

─────────────────────────────────

　　　　　if any other flags already exist,

　　　　　　consider them as alt flags

　　　　　　　no dni, just be nice!

　　୨ㅤ࣪ㅤ︶︶︶︶ㅤ ㅤ꒰୨ ୧꒱ㅤㅤ︶︶︶︶ㅤ࣪ㅤ୧

[syscultureis]

Plural with MaDD culture is "did I actually have this interaction with an alter or did I daydream it? How much of this is headspace and how much is daydreaming? Is any of this system stuff or am I just daydreaming? Am I really daydreaming or is it system stuff? You'd think figuring this out would be easy."

-🐤

.

[idk-plural-userboxes]

Userbox saying "This ___ has MaDD"!!

Plural/system/etc.:

Headmate/alter/etc.:

Other:

[system-of-a-feather]

Honestly, real talk, I feel like people largely do not understand just how much characters within those who are maladaptive daydreamers and/or were maladaptive daydreamers literally are "parts of them" and how both healing and destructive that dynamic can be and I find that a bit visible with how people in DID communities talk about maladaptive daydreaming as a "form of plurality"

Its an absolutely different experience but that doesn't mean that the label of "plural" isn't equally suitable. Since that topic has come up on our radar like way back half a year or year ago, we honestly have been thinking about it as someone who is considered "recovered" from DID and has recovered from maladaptive daydreaming but still has a brain that functions creativity and imaginative worlds with the same semi-autonomous functions whether I like it or not

And honestly? My characters are very much not "my creation", nor are they "just my OCs" - the very way all of my character are made and at this point the only way I know how to write and make characters is by taking a part or aspect of myself (conscious or subconscious) and throwing it out there with a name and face. That part of myself engages with the world I created and develops within the narrative and impacts the world itself.

I repeat and do this for all my characters and the world that I have created serves as a hypothetical exploratory way to understand, engage with, and explore very complex topics with exaggerated and isolated parts of myself. I have never really "planned" a character of given them traits or really anything other than a basic premise of a name, MAYBE a gender, and a vague role and I let them define their own story. No real character arc planning. No real likes and dislikes. No real narrative or secret message.

The function and means of which that I "created" these OCs and the level of which I don't control the way they form and grow is extremely similar to how I "create" alters, albeit one is far more voluntary and intentional than the other and one is physically sharing my life with me and the other is sharing a mental world with me.

((Additionally I don't engage in the mental world I made for them beyond the half joke that I'm the god of the gods of that world and they dont know))

The dynamics I have with my characters is WAY WAY WAY different than my parts / alters but BOTH my characters (maladaptive daydreaming) and my alters (DID) are equally fair to call "parts of me" and "parts of a whole" in a very literal not "Oh yeah Im a writer and this character means a lot to me theyre a part of me"

With my writing partner (who does this as well) we regularly use our characters as well to explain what we are going through / how we are feeling to help facilitate real talk and venting a lot because we have a mutual understanding that while this is a story and these are our characters, both of us have "built" this world by literally giving very specific aspects of ourselves the ability to explore, grow, and learn in a world and that while some have grown SO far from who we are now, they represent an aspect and potential part of us that could have been should something have gone one way in a specifically extreme way in a specific environment.

With that in mind, I absolutely feel its fair to compare DID and MaDD "plurality" with some obvious understanding that while there are similarities they are also different (AND THATS OK).

Cause honestly? If I actually talked to my characters (like a lot of people with MaDD tend to do) I could see myself calling and feeling as though they were a system and I don't think it would be all that inaccurate and wrong. I don't have that experience as my MADD and DID are mostly entirely two seperate dissociative coping mechanisms, but I know for a fact the line between the two is a lot less clear and its just food for thought

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[SYSCOURSE AND DEBATE WILL BE BLOCKED.]

[Good faith conversation and discussion is WELCOMED and ENCOURAGED.]

[If you don't know the difference, don't add on.]

[misc-system-culture-is]

MADD + system culture is not being sure if you are a new headmate or if you are just having a very deep and long daydream

[outergodly]

𓏵 MaDD System｡ 

A flag for systems whose systemhood is directly connected to or affected by their experiences with MaDD { Maladaptive Daydreaming Disorder }.

Requested by : Anon．

[sophieinwonderland]

Hullo! I have questions? I’m trying to figure out what endogenic systems are, and it’s all decently new to me.

If this ask is rude in any way please void

What is a willowgenic system?

Are median-systems (monoconcious) systems strictly endogenic?

Are dreamaway systems (maladaptive daydreaming systems, MaDDs systems) endogenic? (Curious about this one because anti-endos do not like answering that one)

And last but not least, how does tulpmacy works (idk if I spelt that right)

Thank you for your time!!!

Hi there! Thanks for the questions!

A "willogenic" system is a term for a created system, and is usually used as an alternative to tulpamancy. The big difference being that tulpamancy has a much more extensive community with a masive trove of resources that isn't always connected to the more general plural community.

I don't much like "willogenic" as a term personally as I feel it simplifies the process, suggesting the headmates can be created through will alone.

Tulpamancy generally works, in its most basic form, by talking to an entity in your head until it becomes autonomous and sentient. There are a few different variations of this.

The most popular in the community seems to be starting from scratch. You give your tulpa an appearance and imagine their appearance, but not much else. Maybe you'll imagine a few personality traits for them as well. If you talk to them enough and treat them like their own person, you'll eventually hear a voice belonging to them. It will sound similar to your internal thoughts, but different at the same time. So the job of a tulpamancer is to listen for these voices. Or often before a voice, you may instead sense your tulpa's feelings and emotions in the beginning before the tulpa is actually vocal. (This is usually called tulpish.)

The less popular method, but the most common for producing accidental tulpas, is creating a more-developed character and "parroting," where you speak for them in the beginning. Do this long enough, and that character you controlled initially will develop independence and autonomy. Many tulpamancers end up being writers whose creations become sentient.

The reason for this, I believe, is that a lot of fiction writing involves low levels of dissociation. When you think about it, it requires you to compartmentalize. To feel what a character feels, you need to put all your knowledge and feelings as the writer in one box, and the feelings of the character in a second box.

This is even more true when you start talking to the character, and having conversations with them as yourself.

And no, median systems are not inherently endogenic. There are plenty of median systems out there who are traumagenic, and one could consider certain forms of OSDD a type of median system. Additionally, many polyfragmented systems will describe having median subsystems.

Dreamway systems will also vary in origin. Some are traumagenic. Some are endogenic. And sometimes it's complicated.

Maladaptive daydreaming itself is heavily associated with trauma, but can exist without trauma present. This is because of an addictive quality of daydreaming. And even if the daydreaming is caused by trauma, that doesn't mean that the system is. In a traumagenic system, the system is created by the trauma directly, and the brain basically trying to quarantine the trauma from the rest of the system. In a dreamway system, the maladaptive daydreaming may be caused by trauma, but that doesn't mean the system is.

Dreamway systems, even if the MADD itself is traumagenic, may lack the "EP" or trauma-holding headmates characteristic of CDDs (complex dissociative disorders) under the structural dissociation model.

[sillygloworm]

Kinda tired of people mixing immersive daydreaming with maladaptive daydreaming, like they are aren’t the same thing man. It genuinely just spreads misinformation and annoys us with actual MaDD. “Immersive daydreaming is voluntary and does not affect your health or your life, while maladaptive dreaming is uncontrollable and inhibits your ability to complete normal tasks, just like any other illness or addiction.”

Immersive daydreaming is excessive immersive experiences in daydreaming, they are not the same as maladaptive daydreaming whatsoever and people should not be mixing them together like they are the same type of daydreaming and those with MaDD have ID/those with ID have MaDD because they really are different in multiple ways and it just annoys me :(( this goes for any type of daydreaming too, and neuronarrating/fantasy, etc. /nav /info /srs. -glo

[rain-admist-the-tears]

Hey fellow plurals that also have madd!! If your comfortable sharing, in what ways specifically does having madd affect your plurality?

For us, there's a lot of weird ways we're affected by it + we wanna know if anyone else experiences anything like us!

- 🌧(host)

[clowncary]

coining terms exclusive to Fantasy-prone Disorder because my disorder creates a lot of things.

.......

factxuel/factxuelium - a term where there are multiple, complex, or fractured fact/paracharas (partially or wholly) acting on their own.

-acosmic - being factxuel because of a metacosmology.

-naurial - being factxuel because of visionauris.

endoacosmic - being factxuel because of a endocosm.

starter - the starting event, -chara, or creation of a factxuelium

[multiplicity-positivity]

How are paragenic systems formed? Is it voluntary or not? Because I have compulsive daydreaming and I don't know if I have a system or not I'm lost :(

hey, so we’re not paragenic ourselves (though we have an alter who formed out of a paracosm), so we’re not be the most knowledgeable about this system origin and how it manifests. but it’s to our understanding that paragenic systems may or may not form voluntarily - it depends on the person, their situation, and their system.

we understand “paragenic” to mean systems whose origins relate to daydreaming, whether through maladaptive daydreaming, casual daydreaming, or something else. it’s possible to daydream and even live with maladaptive daydreaming without having a system. many folks may find that they daydream a lot and interact with the same figures in their daydreams, but that doesn’t necessarily make them plural.

it is our opinion that, if someone feels plural and wants to use that framework, then they’re plural enough and can call themselves a system. so ultimately it will be up to you to determine whether or not the figures you meet and interact with in your daydreams are headmates.

we’ll include the pluralpedia link for paragenic origins so you can learn more:

if any system sees this who is paragenic and/or has paragenic headmates, feel free to share a bit about your experiences to help the-capy-system find some answers.

wishing you all the best with figuring this out :)

[acorpsecalledcorva]

*Maladaptive Daydreaming is the disordered form of Immersive Daydreaming/Dissociative Absorption (which I believe is the foundation of endogenic plurality experiences), therefore would only really apply to "disordered plurals" that don't have a CDD, similarly not all pwMD would identify as plural the same as most pwCDDs don't use that label

*"Plural Dissociative Disorder" is used here as the best phrase I can come up with to communicate disorders that involve systems of parts/alters/headmates as it wouldn't be a CDD. Although I recognise many do not like this term, everyone hopefully understands what I mean by it

This is the best summary I can find that I feel argues for why it should be included as such:

Arguments against: As a concept it may err ever so slightly too closely to the fantasy model of DID or give credibility to many aspects that the community has worked very hard to move away from.

Overlap: Early reports put comorbidity of MD and DID at only 12.8% but more recent reports have it at more like 40-50%. Prevalence of MD, that is the disordered utilisation of immersive daydreaming/dissociative absorption as a form of escapism, increases dramatically during periods of global unrest, the COVID 19 pandemic saw a marked increase in communities seemingly built around utilising Immersive Daydreaming/Dissociative Absorption such as the reality shifting communities which used guides very very similar to switching and imposition guides shared by the Willo/paragenic communities

Possible explanation for rift in community: many people simply do not have the ability to immersive daydream, and it would seem that the majority of DID research and literature has been written about and focuses on pwDID that don't have this innate ability. A lack of inner world and phobia of the inner experience such as no knowledge and access to parts are commonly described in literature but are at odds with the majority of online presentations of CDDs. It may be that more CDD systems are utilising an immersive daydreaming capability in a more (mostly)positive way thanks to community sharing of experiences, while those who do not have this ability are left dumbfounded by how much the online community doesn't match their experience. Similarly, those with CDDs who can and do utilise this ability would find more shared experiences with the wider plural community including identifying as mixedorigin because immersive daydreaming would be an ability that predates trauma development of a CDD or becoming disordered due to later trauma

Personal experience: I have both DID parts/alters and Immersive Daydreaming headmates. I find this a very useful framework to understand my experience as it allows me to differentiate the needs of both and ensure that one doesn't negatively impact the other. I also believe it's very important to differentiate between them in form and function, while not viewing one as more valid than the other. Treating all ID headmates as alters can quickly become overwhelming if healing is a goal while treating alters as ID headmates can be very damaging and make them feel like they're being exposed and need to retreat further or have protectors and persecutors lash out. I don't think it's wrong to acknowledge that right now there are pwCDDs who mistakenly believe they're endogenic plurals and disordered plurals that mistakenly believe they have CDDs (and potentially therapists misdiagnosing as well).

Psychs: Nijenhuis, Ross, Dell, and Somer all seem to be dancing around this issue from slightly different angles right now, Nijenhuis trying to differentiate purely trauma based pathological dissociative experiences, while Ross has explored a proneness to dissociation, Dell has explored a proneness to hypnotisability, and Somer first identified maladaptive daydreaming whilst also being one of the key researchers into trauma and dissociation over the last few decades. Outside of these there are many psychs that have noticed a marked shift in presentations of patients that supposedly have CDDs resulting in increased research into things like Imitative DID and Malingering/factitious disorder as it relates to DID. Identifying immersive daydreaming as a contributing factor to this change in presentation may help reduce the number of false negatives AND false positives.

I can also very much understand why some might find the particular language of "daydreaming" and "character" to be invalidating towards their headmates, there are cultural connotations to those words. This may largely be due to the research being done into non plural patients but that is clearly changing. There certainly seems to be acknowledgement of the autonomy that can be found when analysing MD through a plural lens though so this language may certainly change as endogenic plurality is brought into the literature more.

[syscultureis]

Plural Culture is am I talking to a headmate or is it maladaptive daydreaming

Constantly

[justletmemakeapage]

This system uses terms from daydreaming lore userbox! Let me know if I did something wrong and feel free to request if you need :D

These are with our terms, but get them too.