#female mysogyny

[lieutenant-teach]

Watching a Russian comedy show ‘Female Stand-up’. I should’ve known it wouldn’t be feministic!

‘All women prefer to be called beautiful, not smart’ – am I the only one woman in the world who doesn’t believe cheap compliments to my appearance, esp when I know I’m not beautiful? I believe lots of women want to be seen as personalities, not ‘pretty’ which is poised as the greatest and the most important achievement for a female. In fucking 2020s!

‘We’re not feminists’ – says one of the comedians, probably to cater for male audience. ‘We’re normal women’ – implied. Honeybun, thanks to feminists you have an opportunity to perform at all, nevermind wear jeans and talk freely about your sexual life. Vaguely paraphrasing Don Corleone, ‘You use feminists’ achievements, but you use them without respect’.

‘We wear make-up, beautiful clothes and lose weight only for men’ – speak for yourself, sweetie. I consider myself beautiful wearing a Star Wars T-shirt with a Jedi Order pendant. And pray tell me, how many women lose weight when they get rid of a man?

A transvestite also made an appearance, claiming to be more feminine than women. You know, these absolutely non-feminine women, born women, with XX-chromosomes and vaginas. Unlike a man, who in the end of the day takes off his wig and fake boobs and goes to his wife and kids. Apparently, femininity is reduced to wearing heels, short tight dresses and bright exaggerated make-up.

Female misogyny is blooming! Slutshaming is thriving. Calling women (esp friends) ‘whores’ – every one of these comedians does it. Am I the only woman who never calls her friends ‘whores’, even as a joke?

The show happily reinforces stereotypes that women are dominated by hormones. As if men are not. Again, 2020s! And of course, if a woman is angry/aggressive, she is just not fucked enough.

A specific moment grossed me out in one more way. The comedian talked about the ‘Viva la vulva’ commercial and said: ‘Women should love their sex organs like men love theirs. The video is very useful and good. But I can’t eat all these fruit anymore’. And immediately after this – a short sketch of this comedian walking along the shop aisle, cringing at cut in half avocados, peaches, etc, and then choosing a bunch of bananas. Mmm, so much about ‘women should love their sex organs’… I suppose it was – again – playing to male audience. And it’s gross from ‘Female Stand-up’, whose target audience is supposed to be women.

‘Who dislikes men more than patriarchal women?’ – a good and very true rhetoric question from feminists. All the men from comedians’ stories drink a lot, drunkenly piss into lamps, and when sober, discuss how they shat, comparing the turds. Either I don’t know men, or this is a very particular type of men the show’s comedians are talking about. I’m repulsed by this image of men this show paints – baboons, no more. Probably even less than baboons. Where do you find such men??? The show makes it seem all men are like this. And then ‘feminists don’t like men’. Seriously? :/

Can anyone suggest any feminist comedy shows?

[ganondoodle]

okay, bc i have seen this argument alot now (and it also seems to be the view point of aonuma himself..) is that "zelda cant do everything link does bc whats the point then"

and i take personal offense on that bc its a stupid argument (in. my. very. personal. opinion.- not judging people for liking it. its a ME thing)

whats the point? its that its her. its still a different character, different in story, background, personality, but i WANT to play zelda and she can do everything link does, why does she have to be so restricted and be bend over backwards to find some new way to make her 'useful' when link gets to do basically everything no questions asked (the only thing thats hers is like .. sealing power and sacrificial maiden, which i find a little underwhelming to say the least), if theres no point to it why are there always modders that model swap link with someone else, and in that case it has even less impact bc its an artificial model swap with no changes to the story (which can and should still be different when its the vanilla game with a different protagonist... its still a different character), clearly theres joy in just the model being a different one- and that isnt even to mention the story possibilities, since, again, its stil a different character

if we ever (never ... i know who we are talking about here) get to play as ganondorf i want to him to be just as versatile and active as link is, if we got a point and click adventure game for him instead bc 'whats the point' id be disappointed too- you can find any sort of excuse/explanation for zelda to be singled out but the fact remains it tracks with how female characters are often treated, and that hits a very sore spot for me

i guess i am unfortunately one of those annoying people that want to see female characters be treated exactly the same as male characters, possibly bc i am myself afab but identify as agender and have a deeply personal dislike for anything 'traditional' feminine bc i cannot and never will be able to truly live as myself in real life, it influences all of my work, my work is as just as much as my opinion on this, very personal

and in line with my point about modding, i see theres joy in just beign able to play as her even if its like this, i get that, i also get it for the creative aspect (though that mechanic worries me even more for the future bc it really seems to be the path now that -freedom = good, linear anything = bad-) it is a different idea and its not like i cant see that value- im not trying be "right" either, just bc i have that opinion doesnt mean i need everyone to agree, its a very personal thing, if you like it good for you! not for me though, and i think both of that is equally valid

i just personally wish she was allowed to be just like link, fight just like him but be different bc its still her and not him in the end- to be physically/playstyle like jsut like him, but you know ... as her, i dont think shed stop being zelda if she could wield a sword just like him

i dont really know how to get my point/feelings across, i dont want to step too much into personal stuff nor spam people with something that ultimately doesnt interest me alot, im just saddened by it really

(EDIT: bc i forgot to add this on here again; this isnt as much of a problem as it might sound like here, just the main topic i wanted to talk about; why im so uninterested in it is MAINLY bc i dont trust them to write anything interesting/care about lore anymore after totk, im always on the more pessimistic side that thinks its most likely worse than id hope and i know even the past games arent perfect or super interestingly written, but now its much more just a general distrust, together with everything like the price ... im just much less hopeful and cant get excited until i see more of it, like im waiting for the game to get out and reveal that its just as much of a mess and money i regret spending- kind of fear)

[lime-bucket]

Ik i joked abt liking megop but thank god im not a starblade shipper (windscream??idk the ship tag),cuz at least megatron & optimus r on an equal footing as well in some continuities they harbor respect fr each other.meanwhile i dont think idw starscream has ever felt or shown respect toward windblade,& u will exlect the ppl on the progressive site™️ gonna hate the male character that physically abused the female charac & was a racist ass to her IMMIDIATLY when they started working,& said female charac thought they gonna be partners,but no sir fans r still to this day drooling all over idw starscream & shipping his hypocrite ass w/ windblade😡

No joke starscream/windblade gotta be the worst tf ship ever.yes even than megastar.

[trailerparkcqueen]

[mysogybest2]

Used to be @Mysogybest, clearly some useless cunts got a little butt hurt from my posts and reported me.

Good luck getting rid of me permanently.

[ilgeaysworld]

Today i saw a reel and it was comparing the photos they took in concerts that was "male gaze" photos and "female gaze" photos and, the male gaze female gaze stuff is already stupid but i wanted to see the photos. Both of them were really great photos with great lighting, angles etc. And literally the only difference was male gaze photos were like female singers wearing more revealing outfit like olivia rodrigo concerts with her red bodysuit and female gaze was just female artists wearing baggy clothing like billie eilish.

Gurl if you are gonna make neo-mysogynystic content at least understand wtf you are talking about

[nothing0fnothing]

"innocent until proven guilty"

My dude witness testimony is proof. I didn't just baselessly assume yesterday the guy was a rapist in my head cannon. For fucks sake

[hacked-wtsdz]

So many people reblogging this saying that the same goes for women irl and that this is so true and I want to add that winning is not the point, neither in life, nor in writing. Yeah there is no winning but complex female characters should still be written and women should still be their real selves. Because the point is life and not winning. The point in life is not winning, not in the game of being liked anyway. This post was written out of deep frustration with fandom but I still want to see those new complex female characters even if I will be the Kafka fan of them.

You can’t win as a woman in fiction. Be too positive, you become a Mary Sue, have flaws and those flaws are why almost nobody likes you. Be moderate, you have wet-cabbage personality, be exuberant, you are an unrealistic example. Have strong morals, and you’re badly developed, be morally corrupt and you’re hated with such vigour fans will send hate mail to the actress who plays the character. Be kind and soft and in love, you’re a representation of sexism, be cruel, harsh and cold and you’re just a bitch. Be a complex, realistic, ambiguous character, and either your flaws or your positive traits will be ignored or blown out of proportion and into oblivion. There is no winning for female characters.

[misspaulmccartney]

Mans best friend

Nothing fills a gap better than guitars and a beating.

A beating with the hand removed And instead a song

To accompany the guitar (a man's best friend)

Percussion pills not taken

They lower his libido

And who is a male poet if not a womanizer.

Testosterone bass line

Cue the weeping sound in garage band Recording studio

Because I ruined music for him

When I told him

All abusers

Cover their tracks

With the pluck of a string

And some creep by radiohead.

[adgalre]

He used to buy me bubble gum cause it fit the innocent image he had of me in his little misogynistic brain (I do actually love bubble gum)

[tea-andcake]

Just finished reading "The futurological congress" by Stanisław Lem. I am not really sure about this book. I mean I did read it in one go (it's also very short), and the topic is very interesting: how far can you go in replacing consumer goods with hallucinogenes? Why would you have to do that? What would that mean for a society? I also find it really interesting to think about what the author meant when he wrote that in contrast to what it means to us today. So definitely interesting discussions for book club!

On the other hand - the portrayal of women in this book (as far as they do appear) is ... not great, to put it mildly. The first thing I learn about almost every woman is how little she is wearing. Women are painted as not very clever and as compulsively following the rules of fashion. Every person in an important position is a man. Women are at most secretaries - or half naked objects that look pretty (or both!). I suppose this is the reason why I am still very cautious about reading sci-fi written by men in a certain timespan.

[1shirt2shirtredshirtdeadshirt]

OK @t1gerlilly that addition is *legendary*.

You hit on some stuff that as someone who grew up with TNG as a young woman, it made me feel things that I couldn't quite put into words. You put it into words marvellously here.

My mother also made a comment about the Berman era, specifically ENT, that sums the feeling up nicely: "In TOS era, I felt welcome. I was excited by Uhura and she made me feel powerful with how respected she was. Then Rick Berman took over and it turned into a boy's club, suddenly I didn't feel welcome anymore. Women weren't shown as powerful like Uhura anymore."

I mean, wow. I never really thought of it that way. The guys on the Enterprise in TOS Prime universe didn't stand around and talk about Uhura's body, they talked of her expertise and talent. In TNG and onward, the women were constantly talked about in a demeaning way by male crew behind their backs and to their faces.

Some examples off the top of my head: The whole Barclay thing? The Tasha Yar "rape gang" planet? The ooga booga African planet with lady property which makes me crawl out of my skin every time I watch it? The women commenting on their tits getting firmer in Insurrection? Leah Brahms and Geordi? Troi knocked up by an alien against her will, or forced upon by fake Riker or young Picard clone? Bev's sex ghost? The T'Pol mind rape episode and getting her whole ass out? Garak's creepy relationship with Dukat's daughter? Dabbo girls? Ferengi's insane sexism being protected by Sisko?

Who tf was writing women in that era, 13 year old boys? Why does this era keep getting pats on the back while TOS gets lambasted? 😂 That's all I'm saying. Not that Gene or TOS was perfect, but that TNG and onward did not go out of its way to at least try to be progressive the way TOS did for women, save for some stellar examples in DS9.

I have also been reluctant to say some of these things as the Berman era has had the benefit of being remembered with rose coloured glasses. I myself am guilty of it, I remember DS9 and often give it more credit than even the creators themselves give -- they regretted they hadn't done more, and for that I applaud them. To this day I feel DS9 made as many swings as TOS did, and was true to the vision of Gene's wish to push the envelope during the time period and make commentary.

I remember watching the Borg arc air live, and for us it was some of the most exciting television we saw unfolding in history! But if we are gonna keep calling TOS on being problematic, we best be taking a long, hard look at the Berman era.

My mom grew up on TOS, I grew up on TNG. Berman's era was my era. It has such a special place in my heart, and I celebrate in TNG, DS9, VOY, and ENT. But like TOS, I'm not going to forego media literacy and make excuses for or just because I love it and it is near and dear to my heart.

Sexism in TOS: Worst Offender, or Progressive in Retrospect in Comparison?

I see a lot of folks claim that TOS was the most sexist of the Star Trek shows by a landslide -- and while I agree that it definitely suffered from the sexism of the times, I also have other perspectives to share to give some food for thought.

I am of course not insinuating that TOS isn't sexist -- it is, but I have to ask folks to consider the breadth and depth of Berman's sexism in his run and ask yourself: Was Gene Roddenberry genuinely more sexist in his storytelling and delivery than Rick Berman?

I'm not telling you to feel one way or the other, but all I ask is that you hear me out and consider some perspectives and make your own balanced assessments. Nobody is obligated to share my opinion, but it means a lot just to have folks hear it and see their thoughts on the subject. So here is what I was originally responding to:

Someone's response to this photo:

"Devil's advocate. This was a part of the popular form of cardio during the production time of TNG. Yes, it was heavily sexualised by men, but so is literally every other way women work out. Men have been caught taking pictures of women while trying to do dead lifts, running on tracks and working on sled machines. They post them online to share too. The fact is, there is no way a woman can be shown working out without it going there. And yeah,t hat includes the combat forms of workout they do in Star Trek. Just look at how Dax dresses when she spars with Worf. Yes, they're dating, but still, same goes when 7 does and any other female.

Aerobics routines like this were made dirty and cringy. This was what women wore then by and large. This is how the workout was done. We make it cringy."

My response to them:

"I respect your take, but I disagree on a few fronts.

The miniskirt was chosen by the TOS female cast, not the male cast, specifically requested by Grace LW and affirmed by Nichelle and Majel who would go on to vehemently defend the miniskirt over the years as comfortable and embraced by them.

Grace said it was comfortable and seen as a symbol of female sexual empowerment during the 60s and thought it would be a progressive garment (and turns out that it was, as it was later adapted and worn by male crew as a skant on TNG) -- FYI those were designed by a gay man and Gene approved them.

This was also supposed to be Spock's TMP outfit:

Literally lingerie.

We saw both Uhura (who saves Kirk in from Marlena Mirror Mirror) and Yeoman Landon (the first to initiate combat with a classic Kirk-esque kick to help the Captain being attacked in The Apple) carry out their combat training in their Starfleet uniforms without ever being made to change into any ridiculous workout gear.

In fact, I'd argue Jim Kirk was sexualized even more than the ladies of the week on the show and I saw his naked body more than anyone else's on a fairly regular basis. He wore red yoga tights while topless in Charlie X while the women wore full length gymnastic suits that covered their entire body. If anything, it went out of its way to avoid sexualizing women practicing fitness in those scenes and instead focused on Kirk.

Gene confessed that he asked to have Shatner filmed in suggestive/provocative ways to "give something to the ladies", so he -- as he said -- liked to "film him walking away" or have him conveniently busting out of his shirts in just about every episode as it were, because Shatner apparently had great assets. LOL

Gene made an effort to at least sexualize both if he was going to sexualize one, and he carried that attitude forward in wanting the m/m and f/f scenes in the background on Risa for TNG. He also insisted that the men and women wear skimpy outfits on THAT TNG planet. You know the one. LOL I mean the dudes even had on less than the women:

Gene also gave permission to K/S shippers to have their conventions back in the 70s when he was asked for permission. Gene and Nimoy felt with all the skimpy outfits they had the ladies wear, why not let the ladies and gay men have their fun, too? It's how we ended up with moments like this:

Yes, those are two people dressed up as Kirk and Spock's penises doing interpretive dance. Gene didn't give two damns. LOL

In my eyes, that was a very progressive take on Gene's part for the 60s. It was actually PARAMOUNT STUDIOS who had the big problem with K/S stories and vehemently tried to shut them down. Gene literally hired slash authors on his payroll and even had several slash stories/writers published in his official Star Trek books (The New Voyages & The New Voyages II).

I feel I saw Uhura and women in TOS engaged in more physical combat/altercations defending themselves that Troi or Bev were shown holding their own.

In fact, Kirk used to get furious when someone would "dress up" his female crew members without their consent (Trelane episode, Shore Leave episode) because like his male crew members, he wanted them to be treated professionally and to also have his male crew act professionally.

Berman brought some of his own personal biases into Star Trek that in some ways regressed it. While TOS had blatant sexism and was called on it time and again, that show was made in the 60s -- a solid 21 years before TNG. We as a modern audience understood why some of it was cringe/sexist due to the time period -- look at any other media coming out in the 60s and Star Trek was miles ahead of what other shows were doing.

Compare that to Berman who was churning sexist stuff out when women like Starbuck and Scully were simultaneously on screen on other programs airing, and we had already had Sigourney Weaver and other strong women in Holywood playing respectful roles.

In my eyes, there was no need of the sexism seen in TNG but especially VOY and ENT. There was no excuse for it when other shows were writing women far better and a number of those weren't even set in the future like Trek was, making it age even faster due to having those dated perspectives frequently highlighted.

In the Center Seat documentary as well as "The Fifty Year Mission" book you will find cast members, writers and other studio alumni who attest to this. Some discussions from "The Fifty Year Mission":

"First, Berman was supposed to have been a real sleaze ball . . . According to Terry Farrel, he would go on constantly about how her breasts weren't big enough, how she should do something about it, and how his secretary was a good example to follow as she had huge breasts. She even had to have fittings to get larger bras, and that was all done at his behest.

Later Berman and Braga developed a name for Jeri Ryan's character prior Seven of Nine. They originally called the character "perineum" which if you look it up it is the area between the anus and the scrotum. Later they floated the name "6 of 9". I mean, what does it tell you about where these two were coming from in the development of this character if they had names like that put forward in all seriousness for her?"

Gene Roddenberry also had some of his own more progressive ideas for TNG cut or watered down by Berman. Roddenberry agreed TNG should have homosexual relationships and representation at a con in the 80s and insisted on it in a meeting with his writers -- something Berman later would not honor. Gene wanted the AIDS episode, showing m/m and f/f in the Riza scenes -- these were some of Roddenberry's requests to include in TNG that Berman later stonewalled.

Berman's era was sadly dated by his own misogynist bias, IMO, to the point that it can somewhat hurt the shows he worked on through his cringe egoism and blatant disrespect toward his female cast.

There is a reason why Gene could keep female actresses working with him and Berman had a revolving door of women that he couldn't seem to keep working for him -- he was abhorrent to women, on and off set. Gene wasn't perfect at all, he had a lot of issues himself -- but Berman was a whole other level. Just look at what he did to poor Jolene Blalock, Marina Sirtis and his toxic commenting on her body weight which exacerbated her struggles with eating disorders, or how he treated and talked to Terry Farrell.

Anyway, just some food for thought. I'm not saying anyone is wrong regarding a take like that, but there are a variety of ways to look at this. Gene Roddenberry isn't a saint by any means, but it definitely bothers me how folks will tote the Berman era as if it were the lesser of two evils or the more progressive depiction of women when I felt there were far more concerning portrayals of women in his era with far less justification.

(P.S: I don't event want to go near the sheer amount of "creepy old dude/villain preys on innocent/naïve/scared young woman or little girl" stories there were in Berman's era, either. But that's a whole other can of worms I can write about in a part 2.)

[frozenmoonshine]

TR boys' unexpected/random red flags headcanon:

Just some crack and slander for the humor purposes. As always, don't take it too seriously, and have fun with it at least half as much as I did writing it!

Since I obviously need to spell this out for some of you, even though it's literally in the title of the post - these are the red flags you wouldn't normally expect from them! That's the whole point of them being unexpected. So don't go telling me how I missed the mark with some characters, or how their red flags are something else. Yeah, we all know the obvious ones, but why would I state the obvious?!

TW: F!reader; implied mysogyny; mentions of DV, cheating, and general toxic behavior.

🚩Mikey - proposes on the second date.

🚩Draken - never talks about himself whatsoever. Even when you directly ask him to open up about what's troubling him, he's still difficult and avoids conversation.

🚩Baji - mama's boy. At first, it looks sweet, how he cares about and respects his mother, but soon you realize that he is dependant on her, and cannot make any decisions bigger than what to eat on his own, without "consulting with his mom". Silver lining is that Ryouko is an amazing, lovely woman, but you don't exactly want to date both the mother and the son at the same time, do you?

🚩Chifuyu - overromanticizes everything, then gets mad at you if things don't turn out irl the same they were in his imagination.

🚩Mitsuya - really damn cheap. Like, ok, I know you grew up poor, but going out once a month won't bankrupt you! (You're not even asking him to pay for you or anything like that, but he just refuses to step even one milimeter out of his frugal ways!)

🚩Hakkai - aside from the obvious red flag (you get a package deal of Yuzuha and Mitsuya as well, if you are dating Hakkai), he can also be incredibly self-absorbed and condescending sometimes, thinking he's so much better than you, etc.

🚩Pah-chin & 🚩Peh-yan - putting them together cause they have the same red flag - if you date one of them, the other one will third wheel all of your dates, no exeptions. Might as well just go poly and date them both at this point!

🚩Smiley - refers to women as "females".

🚩Angry - doesn't let you do anything on your own/overprotective. Look, Souya, it's nice that you're being a gentleman, but do you really think I'm incapable of getting a glass of water for myself?! His behaviour can be incredibly stifling and suffocating.

🚩Mucho - won't ever let you pick a date spot cause he's convinced he knows the best. You always end up doing what he wants for dates, or you don't go on a date at all.

🚩Haruchiyo - yeah, sure, he's got more red flags than China, but the not so expected one is that he's incredibly fussy and naggy about the smallest of things. "That's not how you put the trash bag in the can!" "You folded the laundry wrong! Look how I do it!" "Wipe the counter with this, not that!" "Don't leave your hair everywhere! I don't wanna live with a cat!" And so on and so forth, it feels like you are living with your parent(s) all over again!

🚩Hanma - another one with enough red flags to call it a carnival, sure, but the one that catches you off guard is just how jealous and possessive he is. "Where are you going?" "Why is your dress so short?" "You can't go out with male company wearing your tits out!" "Why are you hiding your phone?" "Who's that?" and so on and so forth, you get the idea.

🚩Kazutora - yet another walking red flag in a row (at least his unhealed self), but even as an adult (healed) he still retains that aggression from his teens and gets into random street/bar fights semi-regularly. Him coming back home bloody and bruised is not a rare occurrence at all.

🚩Kisaki - cheats. No idea how he manages to, provided that he looks like... well, that, but he still does.

🚩Taiju - a religious freak prone to domestic violence... what more red flags can you even ask for? None, indeed. But what you don't expect on top of all that is his complete lack of manners and just how loud and embarrassing he can be in public.

🚩Inupi - rude to the waitstaff.

🚩Koko - never got over his ex, stuck on her forever, and cannot ever be fully present in his current relationship. Compares you to his ex all the time, every other person he dated after her was just an unsuccessful rebound.

🚩Izana - does he even have any green ones? Likely not. But what you wouldn't exactly expect from him right away, given all the other red flags that come into front upon the first contact - is that he's a bad mansplainer. "You probably don't know how the betta fish do this thing where..." - Izana, I'm literally a marine biologist.

🚩Kakuchou - breaks up with you over the smallest things. He missed your call cause he didn't hear his phone ring while in the traffic? - He's not good enough for you and you two should break up. He was late 5 minutes to your date because Izana needed his help with something? - He's lowkey ready to commit seppuku, and of course, dramatically breaks up with you. It's tiring, honestly.

🚩Ran - gaslighter and manipulator par exellence! Undiagnozed NPD, but the symptoms are everywhere.

🚩Rindou - loves the gym more than you. Obsessed with working out and body building, won't eat normal food, spends all time in front of the mirror flexing and "checking his gains". Will either try to "get you into fitness" (force you to act the same way he does) or constantly tell you that you "don't understand" just how important it is to him. Is your 10th workout this week really more important than our anniversary, tho, Rindou?

🚩Mocchi - manspreads all the time, and manspreads badly. He's also that type that won't move away from the sidewalk if a woman is coming the opposite way.

🚩Madarame - probably not unexpected, but he's the biggest, worst incel of all. Lives in the manosphere and inhales the alpha bro bullshit podcasts.

🚩South - judges and publicly makes fun of your music taste. It doesn't matter what you listen to, unless it's 101% exactly the same as his taste, he'll be a real bitch about it. Of course, don't even dream about getting a hold of the aux cord!

🚩Shinichiro - doesn't shower regularly. Idk Shin, maybe your lack of personal hygiene was the reason for all those rejections so far? Just some food for thought...

🚩Takeomi - yet another one that's redder than the red army, but what you don't expect is how much he infantilizes you, especially if you are younger than him! Even if it's just one year age difference between you, he'll act all patronizing and constantly emphasise his "rich life experience" and tell you how "you don't understand some things because you are (too) young".

🚩Wakasa - secretly insecure about his height and gets super jealous if he sees you talking to a tall guy. Doesn't even matter if it's your blood relative or a random stranger asking directions in the street - Waka isn't having any of that. He'll sulk and jab at you for the whole day, never saying what the actual problem is.

🚩Benkei - Cannot find/keep a proper job to save his life! Got into some kind of beef with every single potential employer, so he's doomed to working at the gym for the rest of his days.

[katerinaaqu]

Zeus was following Justice by helping the Trojans, Hera was unaware and opposing (An Employing Ritual analysis based on Homer's Iliad)

So many people out there have read the first rhapsody/book of Iliad and many speak badly on how Zeus acts at the council or how he silences his wife with a threat, telling her to "stay put" or basically to...keep her mouth shut because that is his will. And then of course we have all the usual talk about mysogyny and all that stuff

I am not going to argue that indeed in ancient Greece equality beteween men and women was not a thing and absolutely if your husband nowadays told you to shut up and stay out of the way obviously in modern day ears sounds like the biggest red flag ever. Of course despite Homer writing some of the most powerful female characters ever in both their behavior and their position, he still reminds to his audience the marital duties of a wife through the behaviors of en in mythology. Of course no one can deny that indeed despite the fact that Hera is his co-regent she is inferior in power and position than her husband due to the laws of marital duties of that time. However it also needs to be noted how incredibly human the characters act; Zeus gets furious at the nagging of his wife (his wife opposes him before his family as well) so he loses it in anger and threatens her. Sounds like the average couple fight at a family dinner XD

However the analysis is not about the marital duties (or not entirely! Hehehe there will be a mention on Zeus's threat at the end of this analysis). Is what brought that fight to begin with and that would be Zeus's decision to listen to Thetis's request. Why is he following justice and why Hera even though she brings valid arguements is unaware of certain details? Okay bukcle up for this will be probably long;

The Employing Ritual and Thetis's Request

In ancient Greek literature we often see a ritual take place. It is quite similar to the customs of Xenia; a holy unwritten law that humans and gods alike obey which is the employing aka when you make a request of someone or when you beg someone to do something for you. Culturally the ritual seems to be going like this; an individual falls on the knees of the person they want to be their benefactor and they hug their knees while making their request. The request could be anything from a simple favor till sparing one's life in a desperate situation (For example see Helen doing that to Menelaus when she begs for her life, something I also memorize to my fanfiction , or Odysseus begging Circe to let them go from the island of Aeaea). In more formal occasions, the one making the request can also touch the chin or the person they employ to make their point even clearer

The power imbalance between two people is not necessary but of course by n large in mythology we see examples of the inferior in power person to beg a superior in power, like a commoner begging a king due to the fact that we usually have someone in a tough position that makes the request.

Then if someone needs to make a request, after finishing with the physical gesture, begins the verbal exchange. Usually the person in question brings up to their benefactor a favor they did for them before or try to appease to the person's feelings or both. So the request usually goes like this: "Please, if I ever did this good to you and you are good yourself and you respect the laws of the gods you shall do this favor for me" Then by n large, like it happens with the custom of Xenia, the benefactor has no real ability to refuse. In theory they can refuse the employing party but that would make them unjust to the eyes of the gods so by n large the benefactor knows that he has no way of refusing and he has the moral obligation to fulfill the request. Usually the benefactor finishes the exchange by promising to the employing party that they will do them the favor they request.

In the first Rhapsody of the Iliad, Thetis finds her son crying because he feels ashamed that Agamemnon removed his beloved price-woman Briseis from him and he wants revenge. He asks his mother to ask for Zeus to grant him that revenge and he tells her she should go and beg for it to him. Thetis obeys and flies to Olympus to find Zeus alone sitting on his throne.

And swiftly she sat close to him and she clasped his knees with her right hand while she touched him beneath the chin with the other and beggingly she spoke to Zeus son of Kronus the king: "Father Zeus, if I ever among the immortals have helped you with my words or my actions, fulfil me this wish; honor my son, who is destined by birth to die early, and still the king of men Agamemnon has dishonored him: by taking away his chosen price to have her himself. But you, Olympian Zeus, lord of council, honor him by granting victory to the Trojans till the Achaeans give back my son his honor"

(Translation by me)

So here Thetis basically uses all the tools she has. She starts by asking Zeus to remember her actions towards him, if she ever did something good, for him to remember it and then she transfers him her emotions; my son is destined to die young, she says (which ironically seems to be the case for Zeus himself since we know his own son Sarpedon is to die in battle in Troy, which is another interesting parallel created by Homer) and then she brings him before her wish; so that Zeus would grant victory to the Trojans in battle till the Greeks miss Achilles and give him back his honor. She even is essentially comparing Zeus to Agamemnon when she says "συ περ" ("but you") in one essence "Agamemnon has dishonored my son but you are different! You are just"

As we said before, not even gods can disobey the law of Cosmos! Zeus has no choice but to obey Thetis's request and grant her her wish. And it is clear that his bounding to her request doesn't give him pleasure. In fact Homer says that he stays completely still and silent. He is even processing in his mind what he can do on it because he has nothing personal against the Greeks. Thetis realizes his hesitation and she keeps holding onto his knees to make sure he knows they are still doing the ritual till he gives his response! In fact his hesitation is so long that Thetis needs to make her request a second time and this time she ups the game!

Give me your irrefutable promise and nod your head or refuse me, for I know there is nothing you are afraid of, I know very well out of all of you (here: the gods) I am the least honored!

(Translation by me)

Thetis here not only does she use an indirect threat (she implies that Zeus can refuse her because he is the king of gods. She basically says "sure you can refuse me this holy work. What do you have to be afraid of? You are the epitome of justice. Justice will not fall on your head!") and then she uses emotional manipulation. She basically says "oh sure dishonor me too! I am the least honored by all the gods so why not of you too?" To that Zeus is certain he cannot refuse her. In fact he already knew. However the fact that Thetis keeps pressing him he knows that there is no way around or toning her request down despite the fact that he, again, has no reason to do that to the Greeks and what is more he doesn't want to quarrel with his wife who is clearly helping the Greeks. In fact he calls her request "λοίγια ἔργα" ("sad work" or "wreched business") but he accepts. Because that is the just thing to do. And he nods his head to her.

But what favor was indeed Thetis insinuating here?

Achilles gives us the answer in the same rhapsody a few lyrics prior:

For I heard you many times at my father's palace bragging that only you came repell the shameful ruin of the son of Kronos, the lord of dark clouds, when the Olympians wanted to bind him; even Hera and Poseidon and Pallas Athena, but you arrived, goddess, and freed him from his binds, quickly calling the Hecatoncheir (one-hundred armed) whom the gods call Bariareon but all men call Aegaeon to tall Olympus, who is much greater in strength than his father and sat by the side of the son of Kronos, restoring his authority and the holy gods saw him and got scared.

(Translation by me)

So basically this grand favor that Thetis was referring to, for which she required her son's wish to be granted was Thetis coming to assist Zeus out of a coup that was staged by his own family! So there was absolutely no way that Zeus could refuse her by seer grattude alone yet alone now that he was the epitome of justice

Zeus follows his own laws.

Zeus is known for being the epitome of justice. The laws he imposes on humans by n large apply to him. He is setting an example as a ruler, as a god and as a king that he follows the very laws he establishes, making him just. Even if he himself doesn't agree or even if one should say the punishment towards all Greeks is unjust, Zeus must still follow his own rule, especially when Thetis employs him in the most official manner. Hera though does not follow the will of Zeus and chooses to not only disobey him and ride down with Athena at some point to assist the Greeks but also she does so by tricking and seducing Zeus to distract him and give an opening to the gods that assist the Greeks. Under this light it is HER actions that seem to be stopping justice (of course again one can argue that indeed it is unfair for the Greeks to suffer just because one king offended another) but by the laws of the Employing Ritual it was Zeus who was on the right.

However of course Hera either didn't know or she ignored the signs to it out of her love for the Greeks and so did Athena. And Zeus provided no information about Thetis and instead he chose to assert his dominance to the gods for his will instead.

Last but not least...

Why doesn't Zeus tell Hera who arrived on Olympus?

Zeus seems to avoid the fact that Thetis came to him even if Hera accuses him for it. Why then does he say that he helps the Trojans now "because he likes it" and he doesn't say he is bound by a promise? Some people correctly assume it is because he doesn't want to deal with her jealousy however there is a much deeper meaning to it. Sure it is Zeus we are talking about and surely he could speak out of seer authoritative nature just to say that no one has the right to tell him what to do and that his words are the law. It is possible but still no matter how someone sees it, he could have saved himself a lot of trouble if he had told Hera he is following a favor.

So why does he choose to simply show his dominance as a husband and not speak on justice? In my opinion that lies again to the reason why Thetis was there. She calls upon the return of a favor. But remember what the favor was? Thetis helped Zeus during a coup

Zeus doesn't bring it up because if he does bring Thetis up, he will also have to bring up his wife's treason!

Zeus doesn't seem eager to totally remind Hera of her act that is beyond simple jealousy or simply raising her voice at him. She had literally conspired with the gods to take him down! By that account alone she should be more severely punished than what she was. And all know that the gods received his pardon eventually when he restored order to the heavens. Somehow Zeus is unwilling to bring up the subject of treason because he doesn't want to bring the council of gods before such responsibilities again. He knows it is a done story, that he has offered his pardon and that the gods repented. He sees no reason to bring it up. By bringing the name of Thetis up and her favor, it would be bringing up the story of treason and that wouldn't just slide

Zeus actively chooses to assert his dominance as a husband and a father, rather than as a king and that in my opinion is not talked about enough. Yes in one way he humiliates Hera in front of all and Hera needs to be consoled by her son Hephestus but I feel like Zeus could easily have himiliated her as a traitor rather than a wife who spoke out of the line and that seems to me like a very much human emotion speaking in Zeus because yes, he doesn't like disobedience but at the same time he loves his wife and doesn't want to bring up her treason one more time.

[liztical]

I don't agree with you. Feminism doesn't mean men hate in anyway. Feminism stands for equality in rights and opportunities of both sexes. Doing what men have done since forever will result in the same cycle repeating some day in the future. The point is to get rid of this notion of power being held by one of the sexes or one being superior than the other.

Forcing men into household chores and women into the outside world is doing what men did long ago, just roles reversed. The point is to let women who want to pursue a career, do it. And also, letting women who want to spend time on their families, do it without making them feel bad about not being the cool business woman she doesn't even want to be.(That too if her partner is okay being the sole provider). This should also be equally acceptable if the roles are reversed.

Ultimately, feminism seeks to create an inclusive society where everyone can live according to their own preferences, irrespective of traditional gender stereotypes, a society where choices are respected and supported without judgment, where partners support each other equally.

[slvttbushy]

I decided to make a pin post... I'm not the best at make the post cute on Tumblr, sorryy

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I'm 20 years old and non-binary! But you can use female pronouns with me and call me anything you want!

I'm not a big fan of sending pics, im a little lazy, but If you want to show yours, I'll be glad to see

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I like; rape kink, somno, rape/stalk threaths, hucow, exhibitionist, degradation and humiliation kink, sometimes mysogyny kink, nipple play, piss kink, I can be ok with scat but not a big fan of the feeding part, dumbfication, women 🤭, monsterfuck, breeding, oviposition, gropping, old men, old pervert Men, incest kink, CNC, tentacles

I do not like! ; vomit, anal, vore, zoo, Sn*ff 🚫🚫🚫!

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And I'm not searching for a dom ! Thanksss