#even if they tag themselves as an endogenic system

[proshippers-against-censorship]

I feel like, if everything, being pro sysmed does more for harming kids tbh. Or anyone, really. I mean, somebody mentions hey, I don't think I'm alone in my head but I don't recall trauma and you go and tell em they're a liar? Not very pro mental health to me.

proshippers shouldn't have any positivity or "safe space" you're mentally ill and need help

so mentally ill people don't deserve safe spaces or positivity? also,duh, you're in the mentally ill website,fork spotted in kitchen

[quoth-the-raven-wtf]

The best thing we can do as "traumagenic" systems (quotation marks because I hate origin terms altogether—they shouldn't even exist), is block and ignore endos. We all know that endos are close-minded and unwilling to properly educate themselves, because they already identify as "endogenic—" which simply isn't possible to be. Ten minutes of research on actually reliable sources is all it takes to disprove their validity.

While yes, spewing educational facts at endos might feel relieving, it isn't going to do anything. They're not worth putting in the time and effort for—because if they won't educate themselves with reliable and scientifically proven information, what makes you think they're going to listen to some random stranger on the internet? Interacting with endos first, no matter how you approach it, is not going to actually benefit anyone. They aren't going to learn, and we aren't doing ourselves any favors by "attacking" endogenic spaces in the way some of us still happen to be doing.

"But they're invading actual system spaces!"

Then push them out. Blocking them in the masses, and additionally blocking endo/pro-endo tags from your feed, is the best way to shove them away from actual system spaces. How are pro-endos going to interact with genuine, disordered system spaces if they can't see our content, and we can't see theirs?

"But they're spreading harmful misinformation!"

Yes they are. They're spreading misinformation that's harmful—mainly to impressionable minds. That being said, it still isn't our responsibility to attempt to educate random endos and endo supporters, because again: if they refuse to do any genuine research of their own, why would they listen to some random person on the internet?

Arguing doesn't work. It hasn't worked. And yes, those with impressionable minds can easily pick up the belief that endos are real—but it's quite genuinely their own fault for not putting those ten—even just two minutes of time into actual research for the truth. We cannot force facts onto people who refuse to take them.

With all of this aside, the existence of endogenics is almost entirely a problem exclusively known by other systems. Before you were aware you were a system, did you even know endos were a thing? Or better yet—before even interacting with system spaces, were you aware of endos?

Endos may be spreading misinformation, but it really doesn't branch out much further than the system community.

Block pro-endo accounts, and block pro-endo tags. If you interact with endos first and attempt to prove their beliefs to be incorrect, it's just going to create more malice in the end—and if you block their accounts, they can't interact with you.

Edit [12.12.2024]:

The number of endo and pro-endo comments I have had to delete from this post speaks volumes.

At least my blocked list is longer now.

[kiruliom]

[ ID: A flag with five horizontal stripes, in the following colors: turquoise, off-white, yellow, orange and dark blue. /End ID ]

atypical system flag

a flag for all systems, plurals, and adjacent that feel they are excluded from their own community because their experiences with plurality/systemhood is considered wrong or fake by the exclusionary individuals within.

coined bc it felt wrong to get lumped in with endos as a traumagenic non-disordered system by anti-endo communities when Im not endogenic. also spite. lots and lots of spite.

this is by all means not coined to divide the plural/system community, just something for those who often feel left out to take pride in.

-

includes, but isnt limited to:

endogenic, nontraumagenic, traumaendo, and adjacent systems

willogenic, spiritually formed, partially or fully voluntarily formed systems

traumagenic by proxy systems (formed to deal with a traumagenic disorder's symptoms, etc.)

non-disordered systems, systems who dont fit the criteria for a CDD.

systems who's trauma doesnt fit CDD standards, or are told/feel its not 'bad enough' to cause CDDs

OSDD/UDD systems who feel excluded by the huge focus on DID in the community

median systems who feel excluded by the huge focus on multiple systems in the community

systems who prefer to identify as one person or use parts or otherwise outdated terminology

schizospec and psychotic people who see themselves as plural due to their consistent delusions and/or hallucinations.

anyone else who's plurality feels too atypical to fit in even in this community full of atypicals

-

it is not meant to include transplur-al people who are 'transitioning to become a system' with no concern or forethought for the actual challenges of being multiple people, but if a transplur-al person chooses to identify with this I dont have the power to stop them. the dash is there so it doesnt show up on the search. just know I dont like you, at all.

the coiner of the term is against the name tulpamancy for willogenic systems but they can use this flag as well, again, no power to stop them.

-

feel free to make alternative flags, symbols, etcetera! however do tag me in them if you do.

please do not reupload without permission and credit

[sophieinwonderland]

Warning for the POSIC community: Watch out for @/yourfaveisobjectum

An anti-endo, following the trend started by #AEMOGAI, is trying to make #AEPOSIC a thing.

For those that don't know, AEMOGAI is a tag for anti-endo MOGAI. The tag devolved into hate and, as I recall, was eventually rejected by its own creator due to how toxic it became.

@/theskulksys is trying to take this hate into the POSIC community.

After posting that, this same system started an exclusionist blog called @/yourfaveisobjectum

One of their headmates also runs @/thebigcrow, a blog dedicated entirely to plagiarizing posts made by endogenic and pro-endo systems.

The above "remaking" post is one of many they've done that is copying and pasting posts by endogenic and pro endo systems. They're also using the #plural and #pluralgang tags, which are intended to be safe for the inclusive plural community.

Given that many in the POSIC community are pro endo, or even endogenic themselves, I want everyone in the POSIC community to be aware of this user so they can block their blogs if they need to.

[sysmedsaresexist]

To the anon asking about my username...

There's a bit of confusion here, I'm going to answer many of your questions but I may not post the ask itself, hopefully it'll make sense :)

When I started my blog I was heavily anti endo and I specifically posted bad pro/endo takes, debunking or just laughing. To this day, most of it is still pretty hilarious. I wasn't focused on cringe, but totally crazy, out there claims that made zero sense and were flat out wrong. Check out my tags #shit endos say, #shit singlets say, and my newest tag, #shit anti endos say, I hope you have a laugh at a couple of them.

In my pinned post, you'll see the thing that started it all. A pro endo saying that sysmeds are sexist.

I would also like to know how they came to that conclusion. I'm right there with you. Also like you, I still have many issues with the pro/endo community. I believe CDDs are trauma based disorders. I post research pretty much weekly about it (check out #debunk and #research). I think endogenic plurality and CDDs are completely different things.

And you know what, my pro endo friends support me. We're all learning. I'm kind with my opinion, I'm open to talking about it, we debate, we share resources, we change our views and adjust based on new info.

This blog corrects misinformation from both sides, now. Some of it is worse than others. Antis can and do spread just as much misinformation as pro/endos.

What I would encourage you to do is start with the multiple selves theory. It actually developed right alongside Freud's theories on hysteria (which included early versions of CDDs at the time), and if Freud hadn't been such a perv, it might actually be much more well-known. It's a nonpathological theory on consciousness and philosophy. People have been describing this phenomenon for a very long time, "endogenic" is just the newest term for it. Here's a couple examples.

2015 - at any given moment in time, one or another of our subselves is in control and determines how we think and act.

1987

2012 - this one has so many links to other people talking about this theory

2023 - These results suggest that the normative principles by which agents have adapted to complex changing environments may also explain why humans have long been described as consisting of “multiple selves.”

2020

2010

Like I said, though, you can find this stuff as far back as the 50s with ease, anything older might take a bit more digging, but it's not a small or new theory.

I think an overlap in language has created a lot of confusion, but it's really not out of the realm of possibility for people to be more in tune with these parts of themselves. It's been documented for over a century outside of psychology, in other areas of research-- anthropology, philosophy.

I'm going to be honest, I don't think a single one of the headmate sale blogs are real. I think they're antis trying to start shit. Like maybe one out of every ten is actually someone misguided behind the screen.

Even CDD systems still incorrectly believe in core theory, endogenics picked it up from us and don't know any better. System resets aren't real, but there are real experiences that can FEEL like a reset-- try being patient and educating people. Ignore the others, because some people just can't be helped, and you're better off spending your time spreading good, accurate posts than arguing with people who don't want to learn anything.

I forget what I was saying.

Anyways, I'm a pro endo sysmed.

I hope you'll stick around and see what's going on.

[circular-bircular]

What terms are endogenic systems “stealing,” and why does it matter?

I’m being perfectly genuine here, I used to be one of the ones shouting about endogenic systems stealing resources. That idea came out of fear and frustration, and remarkably, that fear and frustration is still here, even though I can acknowledge that endogenic systems have not stolen terms that matter at all.

“Endogenic systems stole system from DID systems!” No they didn’t. The communities grew together, and system isn’t a term that’s exclusive to DID anyways. While the term system was popularized in DID spaces, the term was quickly picked up for other purposes.

“Endogenic systems stole the RAMCOA terms!” Nope. I’m sorry to say, there’s no evidence of this, despite how many claim there is on all sides. The source people have used to say this has themselves said it doesn’t track, and the only thing we have is word of mouth. You simply do not have proof for this claim.

“Endogenic systems are invading/stealing tumblr tags!” Okay. Report them. There’s a button for that. I hope you’re okay with that turning around on you, however, as many people are tag spamming against tumblrs TOS. And once again: why does it matter?

An endogenic system posts in the systempunk tags. It literally doesn’t impact my recovery.

An endogenic system posts in the OSDD, DID, CDD, etc tag. If literally doesn’t impact my recovery.

Oh no! I get triggered!

It literally doesn’t impact my recovery. Because a tumblr tag does not determine if I am recovering from my disorder; an endogenic system using the term subsystem doesn’t determine if I’m recovering from my disorder; literally anyone using the term system doesn’t impact me.

“But it makes doctors not listen to us! They think we’re faking!”

Sounds like a problem with the system (pun intended) then. And I assure you, nobody thinks you’re faking because someone else uses the term system. I beg of you to research IFS. Preventing endogenic systems from using the terms they’ve had access to for decades won’t stop ableist doctors from being ableist. It won’t help prevent ableism. It’ll just make the ableism look different.

Some of you need to focus so much more on your own issues, rather than the issues you made up in your anger about how the world treated you unfairly.

[showtimeloser]

If ur gonna post anti endo shit stay the fuck outta the endogenic tags. Thats the safe spot for endos. Not a spot to be hated in

This is actually a nice reason for a follow up, so thanks for the ask.

I’m not attacking your community.

I have endless empathy for all systems, schizo-effective people, and otherwise mentally ill people with identity issues. I myself am a system who doesn’t exactly know how I came to be.

My concern is that these alternative terms for plurality are rooted in misinformation, and limit the ways people are able to get proper help and understand themselves.

People don’t always remember their traumas. That is 100% NORMAL. But it’s not a reason to live in denial that it exists, that’s harmful to everyone!

Telling someone who suffers from ANY mental illness that they lack trauma is?????? Simply not true. Even if that mental illness is genetic or not caused by trauma one WILL experience trauma SOMETIME in their life simply because they are ill, and others don’t see eye to eye with them.

It is INCREDIBLY easy to be traumatized. And no matter how “mild” you may interpret your traumatic events to be, that doesn’t mean you are any less traumatized than someone else!

Understanding your trauma is essential to healing in ANY form.

I do believe endogenic systems ARE systems, and I do NOT hate endogenic systems. I’m simply trying to help all systems understand that you are suffering, and thats ok. You do have trauma. You do have a dissociative disorder. And thats ok. Everyone will be here for you when you’re ready to acknowledge that and start your healing.

And as for willogenics, I feel the same. You are obviously suffering with something you don’t understand. And thats normal and ok, I think everyone’s been there at least once. But misrepresenting a genuine disorder is not ok, and I ask you find a different way to express yourself or ask for help from those around you.

(as for everyone asking me to use different tags, have you considered you’re the target demographic?)

[sawyer-is-eepy]

as a punk, its the least fucking punk thing to call someone a poser. what 90% of anti-endos want is for endos to stop calling themselves systems (its a medical term) and to get the fuck out of our spaces. calling yourself a system (short for system of alternate states of dissociation) when you dont have did/osdd is ablist. ablism is NOT punk. listen to actual fucking trauma survivors instead of circlejerking every other ablist around

hi, sorry, i've mostly got it okay but i don't have my glasses right now and can't see very well. trying to still type properly but it's a bit hard, so i'm sorry for any typos ! ^^

i get why anti endos are wanting a space thats exclusively for cdd systems, but terms can change and adapt and evolve(and they are!) the thing is, more and more research is being done on endogenic systems and a lot of said studies are referring to endos AS systems. medical studies and such!

plus, not trying to say you're lying or anything because i can't prove you wrong, but i'm, not even entirely sure system was ever ACTUALLY just exclusively for cdds because it's just that previousloy, there was no research on endos so maybe now that more stuff is coming out about them? but if you do have stuff about the original usage of the term i'd be glad to check it out! i

and about your spaces, again i do understand why youd want a space sepcifically for traumagen/disordered systems. but the thing is, a lot of times those spaces completely exclude a lot of traumagen systems ANYWAYS!! yall exclude proendo traumagen, and exclude traumagenic systems that aren't disordered! and because a lot of those spaces have become "haha funny lets just h\ate on endos and fakeclaim a ton of them!" and also putting "proendos dni" on a lot of your posts you exclude anyone who could benefit from resources and/or potential friendships, as well as fakeclaim "real" systems! you create spaces that are filled with hate and anger so people don't feel safe expressing themselves.

tumblr is usually better about fakeclaiming stuff from what i've seen, but literally everywhere else(ESPECIALLY reddit tiktok and yt) are all incredibly hostile toward endos, and often how that manifests itserlf is fakeclaiming literally any system, ever. INCLUDING traumagen ones.

my MAIN issue with anti endos is how yall want a safe space but your spaces are so filled with hate and you consistently bar yourself from actually ever receiving any criticism. you create echo chambers, basically

safe spaces are no5t places for people to post hate without having to get called out. safe places are not for you to go "there's no science to back endos!" and then ignore any attempts to share science behind endos by saying "youre invading our spaces! you broke the dni!"

youre right, ableism is VERY not punk! but you claim to protect trauma survivors when you ignore the proendo traumagens and the endos WITH trauma!! what about the endos who had to go through trauma and want to speak about their trauma but are silenced because its "sCiEnTiFiCaLlY ImPosSiBlE!111!!11" ? what about the traumagenic systems who just waant a space to be able to communicate with other trauma survivors but they arent listened to because they support something else???

you create hateful spaces, we're gonna call you out on that bullshit.

i'm sorry about the endos who invade other tags but i feel like this time it's at least a little justified.

edit: i can see slightly better now so i fixed some of the typing errors. sorry if i still missed any

[plurapony]

If you don’t like being fakeclaimed, maybe you should refrain from fakeclaiming others? /gen

You don’t know what’s going on in someone’s mind more than they do themselves… endogenic plurality doesn’t pose any real threat or tangible harm to any trauma-formed system.

Sincerely, a DID system who gives others the benefit of the doubt.

We explicitly state in the tags of all our posts that we don't want endogenic systems to interact with us. However as this is a topic I feel very strongly about, I will explain why endogenic systems are in fact harmful to traumagenic systems.

Dissociative Identity Disorder is caused by severe childhood trauma before the age of 8 years old where the child needs to dissocate in order to cope and get through what is happening. Unfortunately it is under researched and as a result is highly stigmatized - even amongst medical professionals. Endogenic systems are not real and will never be real because the identifying label implies the non-existent of any childhood trauma (the key component in DID). Furthermore this is harmful because by claiming you are an endogenic system you are spreading misinformation about an already misunderstood disorder and further increasing the stigma which harms us. I'll give an example, by accepting endogenic systems the general public will begin to think of traumagenic systems and endogenic systems are one in the same - this then could reflect with medical professionals and could prevent someone with DID getting the treatment they need, due to the stigma.

Now I understand that maybe a small fraction of endogenic systems do actually have trauma but due to dissociative amnesia they may not remember it. However using a label that proudly exclaims they do not have trauma is harmful for the reasons stated above, and they should seek advice from a therapist before spreading misinformation online.

Finally I want to add that telling endogenic systems that you cannot be a system if you don't have trauma is not fakeclaiming, it is simply stating facts. You can't. I am not discounting that you may in fact have DID I am stating endogenic systems do not exist.

Please be mindful of my blog boundaries next time.

[quoigenicfromhell]

I do hate syscourse. Specifically origincourse. I've always hated it. I moved it to this blog because I don't feel like it's something I want to have on my blog all the time, because I want my main to be a positive space to uplift people and make people laugh.

This flavor of syscourse hurts people. I've been screaming that it's a stupid debate since the beginning but what I should have been screaming was that it's a hurtful one; it's hurtful to endogenic systems, it's hurtful to anti-endos who ruminate on this ultimately meaningless argument to the detriment of their own recovery and mental health. It becomes a compulsion, to see all these people being so loudly wrong and just wanting to make them understand YOUR side. Literally, even we have to take very intentional breaks because we get in the cycle of checking the tags over and over to see the next bad take, or the next eloquent takedown.

I don't want system conversations to end; I want people to find common ground, educate themselves on CDD stuff and dissociation, I want people to discuss the ways their systems work and what certain community concepts mean to them. But I want syscourse, as it is, to die. I want people to work on their own recovery and not feel pressured to have an opinion about a group they aren't a part of. I just want to exist in peace and I want everyone else to, too.

[curiousitycollective]

if one more anti-endogenic blog calling themselves a 'safe space for cdd systems' posts in the plural tags we're going to fucking lose it.

even if you don't believe in endogenic systems there are pro-endogenic cdd systems who don't want to see your shit and are in inclusive tags so we don't have to.

stop being hypocritical asshats and destroying other cdd systems' safe spaces because you can't deal with people who disagree with you or exist in a different way.

you aren't helping anyone and you're directly hurting the people you claim to support do better or fuck off

-smile/Scarlet

[partsofapuppy]

(his post is made by an endo neutral, anti leaning, cdds first alter who is critical of both pro endos and anti endos.)

i do have a problem with the... hypocrisy of syscourse.

the amount of things anti endos do that would get death threats sent to pro endos if they did the same is WILD.. and i think some of you need to take a step back. what happened to treat others the way they want to be treated?

1. hiding responses debunking information

yeah i think everyone knows who im talking about. you make a post with faulty sources and when someone makes a post debunking your sources and information, you hide it. that's blatant disinformation at this point.

it's Okay to be wrong by the way. you don't have to be right.

2. wishing death upon endogenic systems

ive seen NOBODY talk about it but there's an art piece going around depicting someone holding a sword, with the text "death upon endos" (paraphrased.) and for this one i KNOW people would react badly because i remember the kill the anti endo inside of you merch. that was HEINOUS. but this is fine? i dont know how to break it to you guys but wishing death upon people is not. the leftist take you think it is. id say its actually pretty ableist. i wouldnt call it fascistic because that's a bit extreme (for both pieces of artworks) but Dear God

3. infantilization (for lack of better terms) of pro/endos

assuming endogenic systems or even pro endogenic (cdd) systems are being groomed or are just misinformed or what not. these are people. ive said it before and i'll say it again but people have the right to have different opinions. than you. it doesn't mean they've been groomed, it doesn't mean they're idiots, they are autonomous human beings who have decided, "hey, i think pro endos exist."

4. accusations of grooming

im really upset about this one. as a survivor of grooming i really think you guys need to learn what grooming means. grooming is inherently sexual.

"One tool common to those who sexually abuse kids is grooming: manipulative behaviors that the abuser uses to gain access to a potential victim, coerce them to agree to the abuse, and reduce the risk of being caught." from RAINN. stop flippantly using such words. as a grooming victim it genuinely grinds my gears that you are watering this term down. imagine if someone said anti endos were grooming people into thinking endos weren't real.

5. invasion of tags

this one i also know you'd be upset about because ive seen endos invade tags and they (rightfully so) get called out. i dont quite like how it's okay to do this for anti endos.

6. claiming singlets can't be in syscourse

this one especially makes me mad. i know if a singlet said "endos aren't real" a lot of anti endos would be leaping for joy. but when a singlet says "endos are real" it's all "singlets need to stay out of syscourse." i hate to break it to you. i really do. but singlets are autonomous people who, regardless of whether you like it or not, have the right to an opinion. especially because fused systems may count themselves as singlets.

please think before you do something. please put yourself into other people's shoes.

[dinocanid]

I flipflop regularly between wanting to educate about endogenic systems and not having the spoons for it. Sometimes I do and sometimes I don't, it's pretty random.

It also depends on the situation, ideally you don't go into sysmed spaces for that. That's like a hornets nest (where all the hornets have rabies somehow). I usually just bring it up in a convo if it's relevant to the current topic. I've gotten a couple "oh huh, neat, might reconsider things" by people who thought about it but were gatekeeping themselves from plurality by thinking you need a dissociative disorder or diagnosis first. There's also singlets who know absolutely nothing about plurality and try to overcorrect by parroting stuff from people who don't even understand the DSM/ICD. Plus the uptick in sysmeds I see in the alterhuman tags lately sucks, I don't want to have to block so many blogs that otherwise seem decent!

There's a lot of room for more formal education too, but that's like, more work and I'm way too busy on the average day to head smth like that.

[theswiftheartsystem]

Tw: very aggressive anti-endo post I’m responding to (Syscourse of course with that.) also I will most likely curse here and come off as very angry.

Okay, so I normally wouldn’t do this, but this post genuinely pissed me the fuck off. I blocked out identifying information of the person because it’s not about this person, it’s about the general misinformation spread by these people. Please do not harass this person, this post is clearly engagement bait, which is what ultimately made me decide to do it this way.

Religious forms of plurality has existed and been known about far longer then DID has. Not just Tibetan Buddism. Which just shows you haven’t done any fucking research whatsoever. That’s pretty typical for posts like this, but still.

“Support actual victims” A lot of endogenic systems have trauma as well, but you deny them the right to exist because the trauma isn’t valid to you. It isn’t the “right” way. A lot of endogenic systems form alters to because there brain isn’t shielding them from the trauma by forming DID or OSDD, or a different form of plurality, so they fucking do it themselves. But no, they don’t fit your narrow views of plurality so therefore “to bad, so sad, you don’t deserve support” A lot of systems are Trauma-Endo, but that trauma isn’t real enough to you because you have decided “I don’t experience this, so it doesn’t exist” same fucking argument is used against queer people, people with invisible disabilities, (which DID can be, and we consider it one for ourselves personally, that doesn’t mean it is for everyone) and basically every fucking Minority.

Even if endogenic systems have no trauma, which does happen, why are you against them having a safe space??? That means they won’t be in your safe spaces because they have separate ones?!?!

I assume the persecutor thing is something to fall back on “Oh my persecutor said it, it wasn’t me!!!” As a persecutor myself, I don’t give a shit if you are a persecutor, or a caregiver, or whatever. You still are responsible for what you say and do. You are still responsible for what your alters say and do.

I assume this person is saying endogenic systems have factious disorder or something, but guess the fuck what. People with factious disorder deserve safe spaces too. Factious disorder is a real fucking disorder not just a quirky thing to call people. They deserve help and therapy with factious disorder, like you deserve treatment for DID.

Also as a final thing to add, it’s funny how sysmeds complain about how endogenic systems go on tags for them, when they don’t want to see it, and then purposely try to make upsetting post and using the tags used by the community so they see them and get triggered.

Endogenic systems have done nothing fucking wrong to you by existing.

-Edward

[sophieinwonderland]

how do you feel about the divide between the tulpamancy and the wider endo community? i keep seeing posts that wish for "more systems that piss people off" and list off obscure origins like firpergenic and pseudogenic, but not a mention of tulpas, even though we bear half of all the hate coming from sysmeds.

I see "pro-endo" posts that censor us as t*lpagenic, i see posts insisting that we have to leave our communities and start calling ourselves willogenic or other terms they came up with, otherwise we deserve to be the endos' scapegoats. i see posts from transplurals rejecting any mention of tulpamancy techniques that could help them and separating themselves from tulpamancy, even though i and i'm sure many others have had similar experiences of hating being a singlet and changing that with tulpamancy

Is this it? Is this all the discourse is ever going to be? I wish the kids would realise that they'll never win if they don't stick with their most controversial, and i wish we didn't have to defend both our own existence and theirs at the same time

I think the divide is overstated. There's a small handful of pro endos who are against the term tulpa. And they do tend to be rather vocal about it.

I mean, you do a search for "#pro endo #anti tulpa" in the tags and you'll see most are just people intentionally crosstagging to reach the other side. Tags are obviously not the only things that matter since not everyone tags their stuff as anti tulpa. But still, I just don't see this mentality that much outside of a very few pro endo blogs.

And at that, many of these anti-tulpa pro-endo blogs are people who have been in sysmed circles and picking up their talking points from them. Either "originally pro endo but fell into anti endo circles later" or "reformed anti endo who absorbed anti endo talking point before making the change but still doesn't accept tulpas."

You look into a lot of these so-called pro-endo anti-tulpas who make anti-tulpa posts, and it's not long until you find them arguing that endogenic and pro endo systems aren't oppressed and should shut up about it.

Or calling the pro-endo community nasty because we're not polite enough to people fakeclaiming our existences and harassing us for being plural for non-trauma reasons.

I would hardly call the "endogenic systems exist but I hate their community and think they should shut up about being oppressed" camp pro endo.

To the extent that actual anti-tulpa pro-endos do exist, I do find it's pretty stupid. I think it shoots yourself in the foot on multiple fronts. As you mention, it separates them from valuable resources that can help their systems.

It also plays into sysmed misinformation meant to divide the community. It's the same exact thing that happened when transphobes spread the talking point that "Faegender" was appropriative to sew division in the trans community, and demonize people for using neo pronouns.

The other thing is... tulpamancy is being researched right now more than other sorts of plurality, in a scientific way. When the Stanford Tulpa Study is published, it's going to be super important to spread that as much as possible.

And I expect we'll also see future studies on tulpas that will be into the actual creation process, which will be amazing. Imagine if we had a longitudinal study demonstrating that singlets can create headmates from scratch! This would completely and utterly destroy all remaining sysmed talking points.

Any pro-endo systems not sharing studies like this because they don't like a word would, frankly, be harming all endogenic systems with their silence.

But like I said, these tend to be a very vocal minority. I don't worry about them or concern myself with them.

I also think as tulpa studies come out and are the main evidence showing that plurality can be induced at any age into singlets, many of the stragglers will end up falling in line. 🤷‍♀️

[sysmedsaresexist]

Personally, as an OSDD system who's anti-endo, I think I'd be much more okay with endos if they'd separate themselves from CDDs, if they'd just use different language and claimed to be their own thing instead of saying their experiences are "just like ours", I wouldn't have a single problem with them at all, and I've seen a TON of other anti-endos share this sentiment, but I'm curious about what your take on it is.

/i think this post comes across a bit more negatively than I intended but I'm not sure how or why or what to fix. My tone isn't directly at you or anyone in particular, I'm just sort of rambling to myself. Anyone is free to discuss on this post, bring up other terms, or just ramble about your own thoughts.

I completely agree. I'm pretty open about that, and I've had several interesting conversations since I changed stances.

It's not necessarily an anti endo only stance. You can be pro endogenic and anti shared spaces/language.

CDDs = childhood trauma disorders

Endogenic systems = something else that can still be real and valid

The English language = surprisingly limited

I would love if there was a better divide in language, but I don't see it happening, so the best I can do is focus on CDD education. As young people move into system spaces, it's important that there be accurate info on CDDs in any system space, including inclusive plural spaces. You're not getting resources into those communities unless you're willing to talk to them.

But let's talk about language and the words we use.

I think the polls a couple posts down speak for themselves-- endogenic systems are moving towards plural language. Most prefer to be called plural over system.

Problem solved.

Now we can deal with internal family systems, computer systems, and the justice system coopting "system" for their own use 😤 /hj

As for alter, again, plurals would really rather not be called that. You'd offend most if you did.

System hopping was never ours, the proof is archived for everyone to see.

Everyone on this planet dissociates to some degree, and CDDs aren't the only dissociative disorders, so we don't own that.

Introjection is a general concept in psychology that everyone does.

What language are we fighting over?

And if it's just "system" why aren't we more angry about IFS and multiple selves theory? IFS directly compares itself to DID, and I consider their description of DID to be inaccurate. More people and clinicians know about IFS than plurality. Let's go be mad about that.

I've yet to meet an endo who says their experience is just like mine, and I've talked to a lot. At least ten, probably (I'm probably one of the most blocked accounts on system Twitter). Search my tag #shit endos say and bask in the glory of the most wonderful bullshit you've ever read. Several hundred posts, and I think I've only seen it happen like twice? I don't say that proudly anymore, but the posts are still up because we still laugh at misinformation here. It happens, I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but I think proper education might be best the route to go to avoid overlap.

From someone who's been in this way too long, the problem isn't as big as it seems, I promise. Doctors are well aware of the difference, no one is being tricked, the articles are real and valid, and incomparable to CDDs. They just released an article about how Christians can hear God as a separate stream of consciousness, and they tested tulpas at the same time. Give it another year, the article will be out eventually.

Anti endo is a dying stance, but we can still prioritize CDD content. And hopefully it helps someone who sees it.

But they're not going to see it if I'm anti endo, or if I can't hold a decent conversation and question their self perception every chance I get. Medical autonomy is real, even if it can be frustrating.

Google multiple selves theory and see just how long this has actually been a thing people have experienced. Look outside of psychology and into theories of consciousness, philosophy, and anthropology.

Don't limit yourself to learning only one thing.