#even if they tag themselves as an endogenic system

[proshippers-against-censorship]

I feel like, if everything, being pro sysmed does more for harming kids tbh. Or anyone, really. I mean, somebody mentions hey, I don't think I'm alone in my head but I don't recall trauma and you go and tell em they're a liar? Not very pro mental health to me.

proshippers shouldn't have any positivity or "safe space" you're mentally ill and need help

so mentally ill people don't deserve safe spaces or positivity? also,duh, you're in the mentally ill website,fork spotted in kitchen

[pro-endo-because]

We are pro-endo because back when we were trying to figure out being in a system in 2022, we first found the anti-endo side. We tried discord after discord, but all of the spaces were so hostile. We were called a faker, an endo, all of the above.

We left the community and Jasper (our host, my in-sys wife) suppressed my existence. She was so afraid of being harassed for being a system by OTHER SYSTEMS she hid my existence.

Late last year, we got back into the plural system. We found the pro-endo side. We thought maybe we were endogenic, because that's what all the mean anti-endos thought we were. Maybe they were right? We identified as endo for a while, gained so much support and friends. Genuine connections based off acceptance and supporting each other.

Then, we realized we were traumagenic, after all. We were afraid to tell our endo friends. Would they cut us off like the anti-endo friends did the second we didn't fit their mold of plurality? NO! We were met with continued support, love, and acceptance. Even though our experience of plurality is different from a non-traumagenic system, they still show us so much love and support and accept us.

In the pro-endo community and with endos themselves, we found acceptance, support, and love. We've became confident as a system, have been working towards going to therapy for our trauma, and have been the happiest we've probably ever been.

Even as a traumagenic systems, we block any anti-endo with "endos fuck off!" or "endos aren't real!!" shit in their bios, dni, or tags. Why? Because if you're so fucking hostile to other systems who don't fit your views, how are you going to treat us when we have something happen in our system you don't think can happen or is "real"? We don't even use the spaces for traumagen exclusive systems even though we can, because those spaces and tags focus so much on hating other systems and trauma olympics that we see no fuckin reason to engage with it. We do not want to join a hate train, we want support for our trauma.

We will ALWAYS be pro endo and defend endos because of this. Endos gave us community, acceptance, helped us love ourselves and be confident in being plural instead of the shame, doubt, and fear anti-endo spaces gave us. We will defend our non-traumagenic system friends because even if our experiences aren't 100% the same, we are similar enough we can relate to each other and talk about things, and a lot of non-traumagen systems STILL HAVE TRAUMA! And even those who don't, they do not deserve hate for existing. If you are a person who hates on ANYONE for simply existing and not hurting anyone, then we want nothing to do with you. - Peridot, from The Jaspidot System.

[PT: Radqueers and anti-endos do not interact!]

[kiruliom]

[ ID: A flag with five horizontal stripes, in the following colors: turquoise, off-white, yellow, orange and dark blue. /End ID ]

atypical system flag

a flag for all systems, plurals, and adjacent that feel they are excluded from their own community because their experiences with plurality/systemhood is considered wrong or fake by the exclusionary individuals within.

coined bc it felt wrong to get lumped in with endos as a traumagenic non-disordered system by anti-endo communities when Im not endogenic. also spite. lots and lots of spite.

this is by all means not coined to divide the plural/system community, just something for those who often feel left out to take pride in.

-

includes, but isnt limited to:

endogenic, nontraumagenic, traumaendo, and adjacent systems

willogenic, spiritually formed, partially or fully voluntarily formed systems

traumagenic by proxy systems (formed to deal with a traumagenic disorder's symptoms, etc.)

non-disordered systems, systems who dont fit the criteria for a CDD.

systems who's trauma doesnt fit CDD standards, or are told/feel its not 'bad enough' to cause CDDs

OSDD/UDD systems who feel excluded by the huge focus on DID in the community

median systems who feel excluded by the huge focus on multiple systems in the community

systems who prefer to identify as one person or use parts or otherwise outdated terminology

schizospec and psychotic people who see themselves as plural due to their consistent delusions and/or hallucinations.

anyone else who's plurality feels too atypical to fit in even in this community full of atypicals

-

it is not meant to include transplur-al people who are 'transitioning to become a system' with no concern or forethought for the actual challenges of being multiple people, but if a transplur-al person chooses to identify with this I dont have the power to stop them. the dash is there so it doesnt show up on the search. just know I dont like you, at all.

the coiner of the term is against the name tulpamancy for willogenic systems but they can use this flag as well, again, no power to stop them.

-

feel free to make alternative flags, symbols, etcetera! however do tag me in them if you do.

please do not reupload without permission and credit

[thecircularsystem]

As per the syscourse bracket challenge for this round…

Note: I’m putting this under a cut because, in the past, individuals have told me this take was horrifically triggering for their paranoia. Please continue at your own risk.

TW: Various types of harassment; mentions of sui ideation, doxxing, death threats, SA, and CSA; fakeclaiming and trauma denial; false memories

TL;DR: If we accept that endogenic systems are sometimes traumagenic systems who don’t know/are in denial, then it only makes logical sense that sometimes traumagenic systems are actually endogenic systems who don’t know/are in denial.

Long version:

Eons ago (like. A few years ago 3? That sounds about right), I got sent a bait ask with this take: “I believe some traumagenic systems are actually endogenic.” This was soon after I’d been discussing how some endogenic systems are traumagenic and just don’t know it yet.

At first, when I saw the take, I naturally balked. I mean… isn’t that fakeclaiming someone’s trauma? Isn’t that ableism?

But… the thing is, I KNOW there are endogenic systems who have hidden trauma. And I KNOW I have given myself false memories of, yes, trauma that never happened to me. I distinctly remember abuse based on my plurality that never actually happened, even if I know exactly how it played out. I convinced myself it happened, and I’ve had to do distinct work to remind myself it was my imagination.

So… is it possible a system has convinced themselves that they were formed from trauma… even if they didn’t? It seems possible. Common? No, I highly doubt it. But possible.

And moreover, what about endogenic systems who discover their systemhood and are immediately told by everyone around them that the only way to be a system is to have DID, so they must have trauma they don’t remember… so these systems would deem themselves traumagenic, even if they weren’t, because they genuinely didn’t know?

Anyways. I posted this take.

It led to me leaving my old blog entirely, panicked and getting countless suibait, death threats, and SA related asks, because I was clearly the worst person ever, fakeclaiming traumagenic systems. I was told I didn’t actually have DID if I believed that, and that I deserved the CSA I experienced. It’s why I stopped using “Mod (Name)” as a tag and changed to abstract tag phrases instead, since people attributed the take to a single alter, making our dissociative barriers grow (isolate him away from us to make others love us again so we stay safe).

I’m scared to post this again, I won’t lie. But… I’m tired of being scared of syscourse, yknow? It’s stupid. It’s pointless.

What does it matter if someone is traumagenic or endogenic or neither or both? What does it matter if someone uses the “wrong” label? Does any of this matter???

At the end of the day, we all deserve the help we need.

[sophieinwonderland]

Warning for the POSIC community: Watch out for @/yourfaveisobjectum

An anti-endo, following the trend started by #AEMOGAI, is trying to make #AEPOSIC a thing.

For those that don't know, AEMOGAI is a tag for anti-endo MOGAI. The tag devolved into hate and, as I recall, was eventually rejected by its own creator due to how toxic it became.

@/theskulksys is trying to take this hate into the POSIC community.

After posting that, this same system started an exclusionist blog called @/yourfaveisobjectum

One of their headmates also runs @/thebigcrow, a blog dedicated entirely to plagiarizing posts made by endogenic and pro-endo systems.

The above "remaking" post is one of many they've done that is copying and pasting posts by endogenic and pro endo systems. They're also using the #plural and #pluralgang tags, which are intended to be safe for the inclusive plural community.

Given that many in the POSIC community are pro endo, or even endogenic themselves, I want everyone in the POSIC community to be aware of this user so they can block their blogs if they need to.

[sysmedsaresexist]

To the anon asking about my username...

There's a bit of confusion here, I'm going to answer many of your questions but I may not post the ask itself, hopefully it'll make sense :)

When I started my blog I was heavily anti endo and I specifically posted bad pro/endo takes, debunking or just laughing. To this day, most of it is still pretty hilarious. I wasn't focused on cringe, but totally crazy, out there claims that made zero sense and were flat out wrong. Check out my tags #shit endos say, #shit singlets say, and my newest tag, #shit anti endos say, I hope you have a laugh at a couple of them.

In my pinned post, you'll see the thing that started it all. A pro endo saying that sysmeds are sexist.

I would also like to know how they came to that conclusion. I'm right there with you. Also like you, I still have many issues with the pro/endo community. I believe CDDs are trauma based disorders. I post research pretty much weekly about it (check out #debunk and #research). I think endogenic plurality and CDDs are completely different things.

And you know what, my pro endo friends support me. We're all learning. I'm kind with my opinion, I'm open to talking about it, we debate, we share resources, we change our views and adjust based on new info.

This blog corrects misinformation from both sides, now. Some of it is worse than others. Antis can and do spread just as much misinformation as pro/endos.

What I would encourage you to do is start with the multiple selves theory. It actually developed right alongside Freud's theories on hysteria (which included early versions of CDDs at the time), and if Freud hadn't been such a perv, it might actually be much more well-known. It's a nonpathological theory on consciousness and philosophy. People have been describing this phenomenon for a very long time, "endogenic" is just the newest term for it. Here's a couple examples.

2015 - at any given moment in time, one or another of our subselves is in control and determines how we think and act.

1987

2012 - this one has so many links to other people talking about this theory

2023 - These results suggest that the normative principles by which agents have adapted to complex changing environments may also explain why humans have long been described as consisting of “multiple selves.”

2020

2010

Like I said, though, you can find this stuff as far back as the 50s with ease, anything older might take a bit more digging, but it's not a small or new theory.

I think an overlap in language has created a lot of confusion, but it's really not out of the realm of possibility for people to be more in tune with these parts of themselves. It's been documented for over a century outside of psychology, in other areas of research-- anthropology, philosophy.

I'm going to be honest, I don't think a single one of the headmate sale blogs are real. I think they're antis trying to start shit. Like maybe one out of every ten is actually someone misguided behind the screen.

Even CDD systems still incorrectly believe in core theory, endogenics picked it up from us and don't know any better. System resets aren't real, but there are real experiences that can FEEL like a reset-- try being patient and educating people. Ignore the others, because some people just can't be helped, and you're better off spending your time spreading good, accurate posts than arguing with people who don't want to learn anything.

I forget what I was saying.

Anyways, I'm a pro endo sysmed.

I hope you'll stick around and see what's going on.

[circular-bircular]

What terms are endogenic systems “stealing,” and why does it matter?

I’m being perfectly genuine here, I used to be one of the ones shouting about endogenic systems stealing resources. That idea came out of fear and frustration, and remarkably, that fear and frustration is still here, even though I can acknowledge that endogenic systems have not stolen terms that matter at all.

“Endogenic systems stole system from DID systems!” No they didn’t. The communities grew together, and system isn’t a term that’s exclusive to DID anyways. While the term system was popularized in DID spaces, the term was quickly picked up for other purposes.

“Endogenic systems stole the RAMCOA terms!” Nope. I’m sorry to say, there’s no evidence of this, despite how many claim there is on all sides. The source people have used to say this has themselves said it doesn’t track, and the only thing we have is word of mouth. You simply do not have proof for this claim.

“Endogenic systems are invading/stealing tumblr tags!” Okay. Report them. There’s a button for that. I hope you’re okay with that turning around on you, however, as many people are tag spamming against tumblrs TOS. And once again: why does it matter?

An endogenic system posts in the systempunk tags. It literally doesn’t impact my recovery.

An endogenic system posts in the OSDD, DID, CDD, etc tag. If literally doesn’t impact my recovery.

Oh no! I get triggered!

It literally doesn’t impact my recovery. Because a tumblr tag does not determine if I am recovering from my disorder; an endogenic system using the term subsystem doesn’t determine if I’m recovering from my disorder; literally anyone using the term system doesn’t impact me.

“But it makes doctors not listen to us! They think we’re faking!”

Sounds like a problem with the system (pun intended) then. And I assure you, nobody thinks you’re faking because someone else uses the term system. I beg of you to research IFS. Preventing endogenic systems from using the terms they’ve had access to for decades won’t stop ableist doctors from being ableist. It won’t help prevent ableism. It’ll just make the ableism look different.

Some of you need to focus so much more on your own issues, rather than the issues you made up in your anger about how the world treated you unfairly.

[showtimeloser]

If ur gonna post anti endo shit stay the fuck outta the endogenic tags. Thats the safe spot for endos. Not a spot to be hated in

This is actually a nice reason for a follow up, so thanks for the ask.

I’m not attacking your community.

I have endless empathy for all systems, schizo-effective people, and otherwise mentally ill people with identity issues. I myself am a system who doesn’t exactly know how I came to be.

My concern is that these alternative terms for plurality are rooted in misinformation, and limit the ways people are able to get proper help and understand themselves.

People don’t always remember their traumas. That is 100% NORMAL. But it’s not a reason to live in denial that it exists, that’s harmful to everyone!

Telling someone who suffers from ANY mental illness that they lack trauma is?????? Simply not true. Even if that mental illness is genetic or not caused by trauma one WILL experience trauma SOMETIME in their life simply because they are ill, and others don’t see eye to eye with them.

It is INCREDIBLY easy to be traumatized. And no matter how “mild” you may interpret your traumatic events to be, that doesn’t mean you are any less traumatized than someone else!

Understanding your trauma is essential to healing in ANY form.

I do believe endogenic systems ARE systems, and I do NOT hate endogenic systems. I’m simply trying to help all systems understand that you are suffering, and thats ok. You do have trauma. You do have a dissociative disorder. And thats ok. Everyone will be here for you when you’re ready to acknowledge that and start your healing.

And as for willogenics, I feel the same. You are obviously suffering with something you don’t understand. And thats normal and ok, I think everyone’s been there at least once. But misrepresenting a genuine disorder is not ok, and I ask you find a different way to express yourself or ask for help from those around you.

(as for everyone asking me to use different tags, have you considered you’re the target demographic?)

[sawyer-is-eepy]

as a punk, its the least fucking punk thing to call someone a poser. what 90% of anti-endos want is for endos to stop calling themselves systems (its a medical term) and to get the fuck out of our spaces. calling yourself a system (short for system of alternate states of dissociation) when you dont have did/osdd is ablist. ablism is NOT punk. listen to actual fucking trauma survivors instead of circlejerking every other ablist around

hi, sorry, i've mostly got it okay but i don't have my glasses right now and can't see very well. trying to still type properly but it's a bit hard, so i'm sorry for any typos ! ^^

i get why anti endos are wanting a space thats exclusively for cdd systems, but terms can change and adapt and evolve(and they are!) the thing is, more and more research is being done on endogenic systems and a lot of said studies are referring to endos AS systems. medical studies and such!

plus, not trying to say you're lying or anything because i can't prove you wrong, but i'm, not even entirely sure system was ever ACTUALLY just exclusively for cdds because it's just that previousloy, there was no research on endos so maybe now that more stuff is coming out about them? but if you do have stuff about the original usage of the term i'd be glad to check it out! i

and about your spaces, again i do understand why youd want a space sepcifically for traumagen/disordered systems. but the thing is, a lot of times those spaces completely exclude a lot of traumagen systems ANYWAYS!! yall exclude proendo traumagen, and exclude traumagenic systems that aren't disordered! and because a lot of those spaces have become "haha funny lets just h\ate on endos and fakeclaim a ton of them!" and also putting "proendos dni" on a lot of your posts you exclude anyone who could benefit from resources and/or potential friendships, as well as fakeclaim "real" systems! you create spaces that are filled with hate and anger so people don't feel safe expressing themselves.

tumblr is usually better about fakeclaiming stuff from what i've seen, but literally everywhere else(ESPECIALLY reddit tiktok and yt) are all incredibly hostile toward endos, and often how that manifests itserlf is fakeclaiming literally any system, ever. INCLUDING traumagen ones.

my MAIN issue with anti endos is how yall want a safe space but your spaces are so filled with hate and you consistently bar yourself from actually ever receiving any criticism. you create echo chambers, basically

safe spaces are no5t places for people to post hate without having to get called out. safe places are not for you to go "there's no science to back endos!" and then ignore any attempts to share science behind endos by saying "youre invading our spaces! you broke the dni!"

youre right, ableism is VERY not punk! but you claim to protect trauma survivors when you ignore the proendo traumagens and the endos WITH trauma!! what about the endos who had to go through trauma and want to speak about their trauma but are silenced because its "sCiEnTiFiCaLlY ImPosSiBlE!111!!11" ? what about the traumagenic systems who just waant a space to be able to communicate with other trauma survivors but they arent listened to because they support something else???

you create hateful spaces, we're gonna call you out on that bullshit.

i'm sorry about the endos who invade other tags but i feel like this time it's at least a little justified.

edit: i can see slightly better now so i fixed some of the typing errors. sorry if i still missed any

[systematic-breakdown]

endogenics, get your shit together and get your stories straight.

first you say being endogenic means that you didnt come from trauma. disregarding the fact that its literally a trauma-based disorder, you then say that no, some endos ARE traumagenic and just have endogenic alters (not a real thing btw. i wont get into stress threshold right now though)

first you say you arent systems, youre plural. its a different thing. then you turn around and tag your posts with system/CDD tags, call yourselves systems, share resources for people with OSDDID amongst yourselves, and some of you parade your dissociative/PTSD symptoms all the while still claiming youre not one of us. even when you are. when you arent, its clear that you so desperately want to be a part of the in-group that you dont even realize when youre being hypocritical.

first you say you arent trying to invade system spaces. then you use the same language we do, want to use the same resources we do (most of the time, the resources arent even applicable to plurality. theyre meant specifically for those with CDDs/dissociative disorders), steal posts from traumagenics, and a lot of you target traumagenic systems for not agreeing with you, asking you to not interact, and “spreading misinformation”. 9 times out of 10, the “misinformation” in question is either a direct quote from one of you or a research paper that doesnt fit your narrative. and when some of you get called out for targeting traumagenic systems, you cry and whine about how oppressed you are and how “so-and-so started it!” as if thats an excuse to send “kys”, “cut yourself”, and general hate to a traumagenic system. i know some of us are guilty of it too and it all needs to stop. its so fucking immature to tell someone to kill themselves over a disagreement as minor as this. yall need to relax.

and before anyone comes in my replies/reblogs with “well not all of us are like this!” this post isnt about you and it isnt about that. its about the ones who ARE like this and who ARE doing this. if this isnt about you, you shouldnt feel the need to say anything

[plurapony]

If you don’t like being fakeclaimed, maybe you should refrain from fakeclaiming others? /gen

You don’t know what’s going on in someone’s mind more than they do themselves… endogenic plurality doesn’t pose any real threat or tangible harm to any trauma-formed system.

Sincerely, a DID system who gives others the benefit of the doubt.

We explicitly state in the tags of all our posts that we don't want endogenic systems to interact with us. However as this is a topic I feel very strongly about, I will explain why endogenic systems are in fact harmful to traumagenic systems.

Dissociative Identity Disorder is caused by severe childhood trauma before the age of 8 years old where the child needs to dissocate in order to cope and get through what is happening. Unfortunately it is under researched and as a result is highly stigmatized - even amongst medical professionals. Endogenic systems are not real and will never be real because the identifying label implies the non-existent of any childhood trauma (the key component in DID). Furthermore this is harmful because by claiming you are an endogenic system you are spreading misinformation about an already misunderstood disorder and further increasing the stigma which harms us. I'll give an example, by accepting endogenic systems the general public will begin to think of traumagenic systems and endogenic systems are one in the same - this then could reflect with medical professionals and could prevent someone with DID getting the treatment they need, due to the stigma.

Now I understand that maybe a small fraction of endogenic systems do actually have trauma but due to dissociative amnesia they may not remember it. However using a label that proudly exclaims they do not have trauma is harmful for the reasons stated above, and they should seek advice from a therapist before spreading misinformation online.

Finally I want to add that telling endogenic systems that you cannot be a system if you don't have trauma is not fakeclaiming, it is simply stating facts. You can't. I am not discounting that you may in fact have DID I am stating endogenic systems do not exist.

Please be mindful of my blog boundaries next time.

[quoigenicfromhell]

I do hate syscourse. Specifically origincourse. I've always hated it. I moved it to this blog because I don't feel like it's something I want to have on my blog all the time, because I want my main to be a positive space to uplift people and make people laugh.

This flavor of syscourse hurts people. I've been screaming that it's a stupid debate since the beginning but what I should have been screaming was that it's a hurtful one; it's hurtful to endogenic systems, it's hurtful to anti-endos who ruminate on this ultimately meaningless argument to the detriment of their own recovery and mental health. It becomes a compulsion, to see all these people being so loudly wrong and just wanting to make them understand YOUR side. Literally, even we have to take very intentional breaks because we get in the cycle of checking the tags over and over to see the next bad take, or the next eloquent takedown.

I don't want system conversations to end; I want people to find common ground, educate themselves on CDD stuff and dissociation, I want people to discuss the ways their systems work and what certain community concepts mean to them. But I want syscourse, as it is, to die. I want people to work on their own recovery and not feel pressured to have an opinion about a group they aren't a part of. I just want to exist in peace and I want everyone else to, too.

[curiousitycollective]

if one more anti-endogenic blog calling themselves a 'safe space for cdd systems' posts in the plural tags we're going to fucking lose it.

even if you don't believe in endogenic systems there are pro-endogenic cdd systems who don't want to see your shit and are in inclusive tags so we don't have to.

stop being hypocritical asshats and destroying other cdd systems' safe spaces because you can't deal with people who disagree with you or exist in a different way.

you aren't helping anyone and you're directly hurting the people you claim to support do better or fuck off

-smile/Scarlet

[dinocanid]

I flipflop regularly between wanting to educate about endogenic systems and not having the spoons for it. Sometimes I do and sometimes I don't, it's pretty random.

It also depends on the situation, ideally you don't go into sysmed spaces for that. That's like a hornets nest (where all the hornets have rabies somehow). I usually just bring it up in a convo if it's relevant to the current topic. I've gotten a couple "oh huh, neat, might reconsider things" by people who thought about it but were gatekeeping themselves from plurality by thinking you need a dissociative disorder or diagnosis first. There's also singlets who know absolutely nothing about plurality and try to overcorrect by parroting stuff from people who don't even understand the DSM/ICD. Plus the uptick in sysmeds I see in the alterhuman tags lately sucks, I don't want to have to block so many blogs that otherwise seem decent!

There's a lot of room for more formal education too, but that's like, more work and I'm way too busy on the average day to head smth like that.

[sophieinwonderland]

I sometimes wonder if the reason I might have more realistic views of sysmeds might be down to memories.

This is probably going to be made out by haters into being something ableist, but it's really just an observation. Many people in syscourse are DID systems where amnesia is common. It is literally part of the criteria for the disorder.

But even among systems who don't have full amnesia, a lot of them still may change frequent fronters. And that means that there may be a bit of an emotional disconnect between memories of past fronters.

I think that it's fair to discuss how this might influence opinions in syscourse.

Not only do we not have amnesia, but through the past 3 years, there has only been one headmate running this blog. With my host and some others occasionally popping in. But that's rare.

So I still remember everything. I still feel deeply connected to everything.

For myself, I remember the times early on that I tried to reach out and be kind and it blew up in my face. I remember all of the many hate posts about me starting from the time I first made my blog when I was much nicer than I am now. I remember the coordinated effort to get my blog banned with false reports just a few months after I got here.

But I also remember all of the many, many posts I have seen and asks that I have gotten sent to me describing people who were bullied out of servers for being pro-endo, if not just banned by moderators. And I am not talking about anti-endo or even system servers. I am talking about autism servers, fandom servers, alterhuman servers.

I remember when Aspen invaded the endogenic tags with the express purpose of bullying us all off of Tumblr. I remember when one of her followers created a post saying "death to the endos" and the sysmed reactions were to reblog and cheer. Or just to remain silent. But I can't remember even one who condemned it.

There is a double standard that exists in syscourse where a pro-endo saying something as benign as "actually, I think that the people who would want my doctors to disbelieve in my system deserve to experience what they wish on me and contribute to through their rhetoric and ideology" makes you the devil, but an anti-endo can just straight up call for death to endogenic systems and get a shrug back.

Maybe that's just expected. Hate groups will be hate groups. But don't call them that either, because that would be "disrespectful" to the group that defines themselves by hating your existence. The last thing you would want to do would be to disrespect the people who are defined by being anti-you. 🙄

I also watched Aimkid be bullied multiple times for supporting endogenic systems. I saw what happened to the Yaelokre server, where moderators were bullied and harassed for being neutral, and ultimately deleted the entire server.

And the sysmeds, sick monsters that they are, celebrated this. They were having a party over the destruction of a fandom space because it was too accepting and welcoming to people they hated.

And this is only some of the stuff that I have thought of off the top of my head. I could go on a lot longer.

And I know how many of them want to get rid of us from every space we are in. I have seen their vent blogs. I have watched them complain that we are in LGBT spaces, that MOGAI spaces have too many endos. Even POSIC spaces! It isn't enough for them to try to push us out of the plural community that we built. Any community that we try to be in, if they are there, they will want to get rid of us.

They have proven that so many times.

There cannot be coexistence with people who hate you for your existence. It is that simple. If we want plural acceptance everywhere, then we cannot have acceptance of anti-endos anywhere.

And so I find myself wondering though why other people end up treating both sides as the same. Why the constant equivocating?

And could it be that people have forgotten... That the things that I am talking about now got lost from the amnesia or were experienced by another headmate who is no longer the host or active in the system.

And maybe if you dissociated from the past, then thinking about things like the Yaelokre incident doesn't make your blood boil with rage the way that it does mine.

Could some systems just be stuck in a cycle of dissociating from the worst things that sysmeds have done in order to convince themselves that somehow both sides are just as bad and that we all just need to hold hands and get along? To convince themselves that endogenic systems who don't like the people who define themselves by being anti-us are just being unreasonable for not wanting to get along?

I genuinely don't know. 🤷‍♀️

But I do know that I haven't forgotten.

[theswiftheartsystem]

Tw: very aggressive anti-endo post I’m responding to (Syscourse of course with that.) also I will most likely curse here and come off as very angry.

Okay, so I normally wouldn’t do this, but this post genuinely pissed me the fuck off. I blocked out identifying information of the person because it’s not about this person, it’s about the general misinformation spread by these people. Please do not harass this person, this post is clearly engagement bait, which is what ultimately made me decide to do it this way.

Religious forms of plurality has existed and been known about far longer then DID has. Not just Tibetan Buddism. Which just shows you haven’t done any fucking research whatsoever. That’s pretty typical for posts like this, but still.

“Support actual victims” A lot of endogenic systems have trauma as well, but you deny them the right to exist because the trauma isn’t valid to you. It isn’t the “right” way. A lot of endogenic systems form alters to because there brain isn’t shielding them from the trauma by forming DID or OSDD, or a different form of plurality, so they fucking do it themselves. But no, they don’t fit your narrow views of plurality so therefore “to bad, so sad, you don’t deserve support” A lot of systems are Trauma-Endo, but that trauma isn’t real enough to you because you have decided “I don’t experience this, so it doesn’t exist” same fucking argument is used against queer people, people with invisible disabilities, (which DID can be, and we consider it one for ourselves personally, that doesn’t mean it is for everyone) and basically every fucking Minority.

Even if endogenic systems have no trauma, which does happen, why are you against them having a safe space??? That means they won’t be in your safe spaces because they have separate ones?!?!

I assume the persecutor thing is something to fall back on “Oh my persecutor said it, it wasn’t me!!!” As a persecutor myself, I don’t give a shit if you are a persecutor, or a caregiver, or whatever. You still are responsible for what you say and do. You are still responsible for what your alters say and do.

I assume this person is saying endogenic systems have factious disorder or something, but guess the fuck what. People with factious disorder deserve safe spaces too. Factious disorder is a real fucking disorder not just a quirky thing to call people. They deserve help and therapy with factious disorder, like you deserve treatment for DID.

Also as a final thing to add, it’s funny how sysmeds complain about how endogenic systems go on tags for them, when they don’t want to see it, and then purposely try to make upsetting post and using the tags used by the community so they see them and get triggered.

Endogenic systems have done nothing fucking wrong to you by existing.

-Edward