#clan of the bat.

[bruciemilf]

Normal regular people should slowly plant themselves into the Wayne clan.

There’s this busboy that works with uncle TJ. Dick learns his name is Mikey when he stops by the restaurant. He hasn’t been since Bruce took him when he was 10.

the Bat has no idea the prodigal son returned to the nest. So Mikey’s suddenly babysitting a strange vigilante with the horsepower of 4 drunk girls in an Uber.

“It’s just so fucking frustrating because I WANT to be here but he doesn’t TELL me he wants me here! I want him to want me! I want him to say ‘hey, by the way, you’re my son, you’re always welcome here, I know you get lonely!’ But he doesn’t! He doesn’t! I miss Jason. This sandwich is so good. Thanks cousin.”

Mikey, who’s been working there for about a week, stares at the 300 dollar tip for a straight 30 minutes, wondering who Jason is.

From then on, the flock multiplies.

POV you’re cousin Mikey and Red Hood just walks in while you’re closing, covered in blood, and Spoiler’s leg is broken but she really wants a meatball sub, Signal asks why they upped the prices on the pizza, Orphan stares and nods her head and oh my god that’s an 8 year old with a sword:

[stars-obsession-pit]

A cult has been causing trouble for the Infinite Realms in their search for power and eternal life. And to make things worse, the Observants suspect that they have at least one actual ghost—or possibly even a traitorous Observant—working with them and interfering with their view. This could become a major problem…

However, as Observants, they’ve sworn not to intervene directly, so they have to pick someone else to look deeper into the situation for them. And, if necessary, to deal with it.

They choose Phantom for this role, since his half-human nature means he’ll have an easier time operating in the living world. Danny’s not entirely happy with the assignment, but the situation does seem like a genuine issue so he’s willing to look into it (if in his own way).

Since he doesn’t know how prepared the cult is for ghosts, he decides that infiltration would be the best way to gather info. Thus, he takes on a new identity in his human form and approaches the cult, expressing interest in the publicly known part of their group. Then, a bit later, he manages to successfully gain admittance into some of the more private meetings. Everything is progressing as planned!

…Though he didn’t expect to like one of his fellow initiates so much. He hopes he can change their mind on things and bring them out of the cult with him when he’s done.

Meanwhile, a hero from the Justice League has also been sent to infiltrate the cult and investigate the rumors about it. It’s gone off without a hitch so far, but they’ve gained a potential entanglement in the form of one of the other new members whom they’re developing a crush on…

[jillianallen14]

Dear Baby Bats - Goth Band Recommendations

As a middle sibling goth (I’ve been in the subculture for 10 years now, so not a baby bat but not an elder goth either), let me turn you on to some bands because we do not gatekeep in this house!! Also, if you want consistently good lesser-known & brand new goth band recs, go follow Awfully Sinister on TikTok and Instagram. He’s a DJ & has great recs. I've found so much music through him because it's really hard to keep up with all the new bands cropping up every year. You want to avoid the goth subreddit because they are extremely gatekeeper-y and argue over labels constantly. It’ll just confuse you, and they are not nice over there.

If you’re very new to the subculture, and you haven’t yet listened to all of Bauhaus, Siouxsie and the Banshees, The Cure, Sisters of Mercy, Christian Death, Cocteau Twins, Clan of Xymox, Joy Division, and Depeche Mode, go do so now. You'll want to know which of them you really enjoy the most because it will help you know which sub-subgenre(s) of goth you want to watch out for, and it'll tell you what to look for to find it. For example, Sisters of Mercy is the gothic rock subgenre, Christian Death is deathrock, Cocteau Twins is ethereal wave, Clan of Xymox is like the original darkwave, Joy Division is classic post-punk, etc. I haven’t included industrial, despite its proximity to the goth subculture, just because I actually don’t really know that many industrial bands beyond Skippy Puppy, Ministry, and Throbbing Gristle. Some other goth/goth-adjacent staple bands (that are very popular and very influential) that you should listen to if you haven’t already are The Damned, Killing Joke, The Cult, and Adam and the Ants/Adam Ant). I didn't know where to put She Wants Revenge or London After Midnight either, but they're also great.

I’ve bolded some of my absolute must-listen to goth bands, and I've put monthly Spotify listeners for each band so you know which ones deserve WAY more love. And in my pre-list ramblings for each OG band, I've given you some key terms to look up so you can more easily find music that's similar to what you enjoy. Okay, here we go:

If you like Bauhaus:

Bauhaus is a hard one because honestly, nobody really sounds like them, and they aren't really that closely associated with a specific sub-subgenre of goth. They were post-punk, they were art rock, they were experimental, they were sometimes very punk and at other times very gothic rock. They liked to call themselves “dark glam rock” (all four members are massive Bowie, T-Rex, and Iggy Pop fans), but you’re gonna have a hard time finding bands that sound like them if you look that term up. They probably have one of the most unique sounds of all-time. They’re my favorite band (I even have a tattoo for them, like I am devoted lol), but even I have a difficult time finding other bands that scratch their particular itch for me. These bands I’ve listed are as close as you’re gonna get to Bauhaus’ general vibe imo.

Virgin Prunes (80’s band that is technically deathrock but has the same absolutely unhinged, danceable sound that Bauhaus has, so they’re going here; one of my favorites; no one else does it like them and no one else ever will; I would actually give my left foot to see them live); 13.2k monthly listeners (this is actually physically painful to me, how is it this low!!! don't walk, RUN to go listen to them)

Alien Sex Fiend (80’s classic unhinged goth); 77k monthly listeners

Sextile (modern band that has some very Bauhaus-sounding guitar work at times but with heavy industrial influences); 147k listeners

The Danse Society (80’s unhinged goth; has similar experimental vibes to Bauhaus imo; one of my fave goth groups); 36k listeners

Sex Beat (80’s); not even really on Spotify

Ritual Howls (modern band; I don’t know why it gives Bauhaus, but it does; one of the few modern bands that scratches that particular itch for me); 45k listeners

The Agnes Circle (modern band; one of my favorites; they have the right Bauhaus-like atmosphere for me); 52k listeners

Traitrs (I can’t explain why they remind me of Bauhaus, but they do; another one of my fave modern bands; they make me want to start levitating and doing the Ian Curtis dance in the same way Bauhaus does lol); 239k listeners

Paralisis Permanente (underrated 80’s; they have a lot in common with Bauhaus’s sound actually, def give them a try!); 54k monthly listeners

The Birthday Party (80s band, totally unhinged; they’re less dark and atmospheric than Bauhaus, but if you take one listen to their album Junkyard, you’ll know exactly why I put them under this category haha; Nick Cave is the vocalist, which is amazing); 54k listeners

Tones on Tail (80s; Daniel Ash & Kevin Haskins of Bauhaus formed this group; I’d put Love and Rockets as well, which is all of Bauhaus’s members except Peter Murphy, but Love and Rockets weirdly bears little resemblance to Bauhaus’s music; but if you just generally want more of Bauhaus members' work, Love and Rockets is great, too); 81k listeners

Dalis Car (80s; collaboration between Peter Murphy and Japan's bassist; their music is extremely weird, so only listen if you really love the batshit insane Bauhaus songs or if you really live and breathe Peter Murphy like I do lol; their description on Spotify is so fucking funny); 7k listeners

I'd also recommend listening to Daniel Ash, David J, and Peter Murphy's solo work. They're all great!! Peter also did some amazing collaborations with Trent Reznor (Nine Inch Nails); the version of Reptile that they did together is better than Nine Inch Nail's original version imo, and you can find that entire session on Youtube!

If you like Siouxsie and the Banshees:

Siouxsie is another one that's hard to pin down sound-wise because again, they don't really fit into one specific sub-subgenre, so all of these recs are just goth bands with female vocalists who have the same kind of powerful vocals that Siouxsie does.

Second Still (modern band, one of my faves; singer sounds a lot like Siouxsie to me at times); 69k listeners

Skeletal Family (80’s band; has the same “women in punk” vibes that Siouxsie has); 55k listeners

Xmal Deutschland (80’s band; has the same powerful vocals that Siouxsie has; makes you wanna go stupid go crazy the way the Banshees do); 73k listeners

Secret Shame (modern band w/ woman singer; has the same rage that Siouxsie songs have to me, especially early Siouxsie); 6k listeners (let's get those numbers up, folks!!!)

Rosegarden Funeral Party (modern band w/ a woman vocalist); 57k listeners

Mephisto Walz (90s & 2000s; sounds so much like the Banshees at times); 56k listeners

The Creatures (80s; a Siouxsie Sioux & Budgie side project); 34k listeners

Madhouse (listen to Repulsion! 80s group that’s technically deathrock, but I put them under this category because the singer has Siouxsie-like qualities); not really on Spotify

Strange Boutique (90s; vocalist is Monica Richards of Faith and the Muse & Madhouse; this is probably my favorite project of hers); 112k listeners

If you like Depeche Mode:

For Depeche Mode enjoyers (which DM is kind of on the fringes of what’s considered “goth,” but they’re so entrenched in the subculture that I included them anyway), you’re gonna want to delve into goth playlists and modern goth that leans towards synthpop/synthwave. So those are the kinds of playlists you’ll want to search up for similar sounds to DM.

Nuovo Testamento (modern band; combines post-punk and pop elements in a way that’s very similar to Depeche Mode; lots of fun live, and they have a good sound); 25k listeners

Boy Harsher (modern band; relies heavily on synth; feels like it should be playing at every goth club); 558k listeners

ULTRA SUNN (modern band; singer sounds like Dave Gahan); 217k listeners (they just blew up on tiktok recently, which explains why this just skyrocketed since the last time I was on their Spotify page lol; good for them, good for them, they deserve it)

Ministry's first album (called With Sympathy), which was synthwave/synthpop before they went industrial (this is one of my all-time favorite albums)

French Police (modern band); 252k listeners

Closed Tear (modern band); 152k listeners

Night Sins (modern band); 33k listeners

Panic Priest (modern band; vocals sound decently similar to Dave Gahan & there is a lot of reliance on synth; In All Severity is a gorgeous song); 5k listeners

Fad Gadget (underrated 80’s; I just feel like if you like DM, you’re also gonna like Fad Gadget); 58k listeners

Martin Dupont (underrated 80s cold wave/synth pop; Inside Out is one of my favorite 80s songs); 26k listeners

If you like The Cure:

You'll be hard-pressed to find a goth band that wasn't influenced by The Cure, so I really can't give you any key terms for what to look up lol. They also changed their sound so frequently that it entirely depends on what era of The Cure's music you're looking to find similar music for.

Vision Video (modern band; combines post-punk and pop elements like The Cure does; one of my fave modern goth bands; they are INCREDIBLE live); 52k listeners (I'm gonna need y'all to get a song or two of theirs to blow up on tiktok expeditiously lol)

Urban Heat (modern band; great live); 36k listeners

The Chameleons (80’s band; very underrated; they are also very good live); 167k listeners

House of Harm (modern band, very new; also very good live; has pop elements); 44k listeners

Deceits (modern band, another very new one); 28k listeners (it's crazy how much this number has grown the past two months because it was in the single thousands not that long ago; everyone say thank you, tiktok)

Drab Majesty (modern band; their instrumentals remind me of The Cure); 172k listeners

Double Echo (modern band, one of my faves; their instrumentals also remind me of The Cure); 15k listeners (let's get these numbers up!!!)

The Bolshoi (underrated 80’s band that combines new wave and goth elements in a similar way to The Cure); 114k listeners

The Essence (underrated 80s band that sounds so much like The Cure it’s actually insane, but they’ve got their own sound too; they’re like a perfect blend of all of The Cure’s different sounds); 25k monthly listeners

The Glove (80s; a Robert Smith side project with Steven Severin from Siouxsie and the Banshees); 25k listeners

Crimson Ivy (80s band; singer sounds so a lot like a more yelly version of Robert Smith sometimes); not on Spotify

Miss Teen America (brand new band from NYC! They only have one single out right now, and it’s well worth listening to); 940 monthly listeners (y’all know what to do!!! Let’s get those numbers up, up, up!) link to their single: https://open.spotify.com/album/4nvdZeUVLLrMv3tEziCqm7?si=2WVS7-eYQLGR7Id3wLiKhg

If you like Clan of Xymox:

Most of these bands will be modern ones because Clan of Xymox was honestly way ahead of their time. (They are also amazing live, so go see them before they eventually call it quits!) For playlists that are full of their vibe, you’re gonna want to look up “darkwave” playlists. Clan of Xymox pioneered darkwave, so any darkwave band you listen to is gonna be influenced by their sound in some way or another.

Harsh Symmetry (modern, very new; very heavily relies on synth); 29k listeners

Ssleeping Desiress (modern band; instrumentals similar to Xymox); 55k listeners

Twin Tribes (probably my favorite modern goth band; they are fucking incredible and so good live!); 276k listeners

ACTORS (modern band; heavily relies on synth); 86k listeners

Mareux (modern; heavily relies on synth); 4.8 million listeners (this is wild!!!! everyone say thank you, tiktok)

Sixth June (modern); 23k listeners

Plastique Noir (modern); 40k listeners

Rendez Vous (modern); 160k listeners

Minuit Machine (modern); 97k listeners

The Frozen Autumn (90s & 2000s); 31k listeners

If you like Christian Death:

All of these recs will be deathrock recs or goth bands that heavily leaned on punk sounds. So if CD is the OG goth band you’re most fond of, you’re gonna want to delve into deathrock playlists for similar sounds.

Asylum Party (80’s band); not on spotify

45 Grave (80’s band); 47k listeners

Voodoo Church (80’s band; probably my favorite out of this bunch; I actually like them more than Christian Death); 7k listeners (let's get these numbers up immediately!!!!)

Ausgang (80’s band); 2k listeners (WHAT; they deserve so much more, damn)

Corpus Delicti (90’s band; they are very good; they sound the least like Christian Death on this list imo); 26k listeners

13th Chime (80’s band; very underrated); 6k listeners

UK Decay (you know, I actually don’t know what era they’re from; unhinged sound); 1k listeners (omg)

Super Heroines (underrated 80’s band; Eva O formed it); 2k listeners (you see what I meant about underrated?)

Specimen (80s band; this one could have just as easily gone under Bauhaus tbh, but the vocals are generally higher pitched than Peter Murphy’s, so I put them under this category); 102k listeners

Sex Gang Children (80’s band; just so unhinged & I love them for it); 27k listeners

Suspiria (90s, I think? I don’t actually know); barely on Spotify but 27k listeners

Theatre of Hate (80s); 7k listeners

Bloody Dead and Sexy (2000s, I think); 44k listeners

Mescaline Babies (2000s); 3k listeners

Acid Bats (2000s; Mexican band with Spanish lyrics); 2k listeners

Altar de Fey (80s band; formed in San Francisco!!); 23k listeners

Twisted Nerve (80s band; classified as “gothic punk,” so I felt this was the best category for them; they’re great; their sound also reminds me of early Siouxsie and the Banshees and Killing Joke); 2.5k listeners

Play Dead (80s); 8k listeners

Limbo (underrated 80s; if you like Bauhaus & Virgin Prunes as well, you’re gonna like this band); 413 listeners

If you like Cocteau Twins:

Cocteau Twins’ early sound is usually categorized as “ethereal wave” goth, so those are the playlists you’ll want to look up if you enjoy their early sound. If you like their later sound, you’re gonna want to lean more towards shoegaze for similar vibes. Admittedly, ethereal wave is one of the goth subgenres that I know the least about, so I’m not gonna be much help here.

Dead Can Dance (80’s band; NO one, and I mean NO ONE, was doing it like Dead Can Dance; so fun to dance to in the goth club); 332k listeners

Lycia (90’s band; their music is very transcendent); 20k listeners

Linea Aspera (modern band; gorgeous woman vocals; honestly, their music is just very beautiful); 67k listeners

This Mortal Coil (formed in the 80s; some songs feature Elizabeth Fraser & Robin Guthrie from Cocteau Twins, but even the ones that don’t still have an ethereal vibe similar to CT; Sixteen Days/Gathering Dust is just like the best song ever); 310k listeners

Autumn's Grey Solace (2000s); 62k listeners

Faith and the Muse; (90s); 22k listeners

This Ascension (90s); 4k listeners

Strawberry Switchblade (80s); 400k listeners

If you like Joy Division:

All of these bands will be ones that sound very classically post-punk, so those are the playlists to search out; emphasis on "classic" because post-punk is a very broad term that gets applied to a lot of music. I would argue that Joy Division has had the most influence out of all the OG goth bands on the current goth sound/goth renaissance we're going through right now, so there are a LOT of bands out there for you if you’re a JD fan.

Molchat Doma (modern band); 2.5 million listeners (wow lol, they've grown so much over the past two years, it's actually insane; good for them)

Soviet Soviet (modern band); 152k listeners

Fearing (modern band; very good live); 30k listeners

Ploho (modern band); 146k listeners

Pink Turns Blue (criminally underrated 80’s band; they are SO good live); 98k listeners (this is an actual travesty, this band is way too good to not even be in the hundred thousands)

The Sound (another incredibly underrated 80’s band); 119k listeners

This Cold Night (modern; has the deep vocals of Joy Division and the driving bass but more stripped back than JD); 150k listeners

Bleib Modern (modern; has very similar vocals to Red Lorry Yellow Lorry, which is a band listed under the Sisters of Mercy section of this post, so if you end up liking this band, you should also listen to Red Lorry Yellow Lorry & vice versa); 36k listeners

Lebanon Hanover (modern; has the existential angst that Joy Division always ignites in me but more stripped back); 936k listeners (this is crazy, holy shit!!!!!! go, Lebanon Hanover, go!!)

She Past Away (modern; deep vocals); 226k listeners

Belgrado (modern; woman vocals!); 18k listeners (they deserve better than this!!)

Leonora Post Punk (modern; Mexican goth band w/ Spanish vocals! They’re amazing! They have those deep vocals you want when you’re looking for a similar sound to Joy Division); 56k listeners

O. Children (modern; has the deep vocals & interesting bass lines that Joy Division was known for; great band); 29k listeners

If you like Sisters of Mercy:

This is one of my least favorite goth subcategories, which is odd because I actually love Sisters. But if you’re looking for a lot of music that sounds like SoM, I’d suggest delving into the 90’s and early 2000’s goth music scene. Search out those playlists. A lot of the 90s and 2000s goth bands were very derivative of Sisters of Mercy.

Rosetta Stone (90’s band); 54k listeners

Miazma (modern); 10k listeners

Red Lorry Yellow Lorry (another criminally underrated 80’s band; one of my fave goth bands); 40k listeners (THEY!! DESERVE!! BETTER!!)

Dreamtime (modern); 65 listeners (ouch lol, please go show them some love)

Fields of the Nephilim (80’s, I think; if you’re a metalhead, you’ll probably appreciate this band); 95k listeners

The Merry Thoughts (80s); 19k listeners

The March Violets (underrated 80s; might be a controversial opinion to put them under SoM, but I’m standing by it); 69k listeners

Horror Vacui (modern; it’s kind of a stretch putting them here tbh, but I couldn’t figure out what other category to put them under); 44k listeners

The Sisterhood (spin-off Sisters of Mercy group that was formed by goth king Andrew Eldritch himself); 3k listeners

The Mission (formed by former Sisters of Mercy members; Wasteland by them was actually one of the first songs to get me into goth music); 180k listeners

Eyes of the Nightmare Jungle (late 80s & 90s; every time a song by them comes on, I’m convinced it’s a Sisters song until the singer starts singing lol); 13k listeners

Ex-Voto (formed in 1982, but most of their albums on Spotify came out in the 2000s; this band is like if Fields of Nephilim had a baby with Clan of Xymox & then sprinkled some industrial techniques in); 6k listeners

Also, if you want a 1500-song, 105-hour goth playlist that’s constantly growing, here you go. The name of it is a dig at my ex lol: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/6jCV530pMmOEmDHj4CLNka?si=cEVKiyAwQpaieGiV2pMyqw

[laufire]

The entirety of Jason's speech at the end of Under the Hood is outstanding, I'm not stating anything new here. But I have a deep appreciation for one bit in particular: "I forgive you for not saving me".

Because I forgive you is worlds apart from it wasn't your fault.

[blurrilines]

You ever think about how Jason and Tim are canonically 2-3 years apart? bc Tim sure does

[secretly-a-catamount]

Cryptid Batfam is really fun, but I feel like everyone’s missing out on Cryptid versions of the batfam’s lovers. You don’t understand, I need the their lovers to be worse. I need the goons of Gotham to be afraid of the shadows and to be just as afraid of what casts the shadows.

[brucewaynehater101]

Y'all, I love Tim being excluded from the Bat family angst. This angst is my bread and butter because it's so funny (my coping mechanism is laughing leave me be).

Why is it funny?

Tim was basically excluded from his first family unit (his parents sent him away to boarding school to be a family together, and then, after his mom died, his dad got a new wife pretty quickly). After the initial emotional neglect, he goes out to find himself a family. He works damn hard putting that family back together and earning himself a spot. Lo and behold, he gets excluded from that family too.

That's like 3 family units he gets booted from. His other found family unit, YJ, also gets murdered (or joins a cult) around the same time his dad dies. Tim should, realistically, have serious attachment issues. Poor guy :(

[oldblog-batsyheere]

I keep imagining this one scene- usually its Jason or Tim or Damian, or all the Batboys or the Batfam sitting there with cultists or the league trying to summon the ghost king- but put it as just Dick who is a little surprised that he passed the requirement of having died so he can be used to summon this eldritch being that rules the dead.

And when he's bound, placed in front of a Lazarus pit and everyone is still trying to reach him, the being is summoned- and Danny just lurches through the pit hacking and spitting and cursing because this ectoplasm is nasty, what have you people been doing to it?

And the cultists are expecting Pariah Dark. They demand he takes them to the real ghost king. And Dick just has to watch this being with snow white hair and glowing green eyes start to float up and take this sheen of other to him as he goes "yeah no".

And Dick is maybe a little drugged, and has a concussion, but he feels he has an excuse for what comes out of his mouth.

"Nightwing, come in. What's going on?"

"B, I think I found your next kid. I'm gonna marry him. Even if he climbed out of a Lazarus pit and looks a little spooky."

"-what?!"

[ciel-em]

Eldritch/Cryptid batfam au where Bruce gives birth to all his kids Surinam toad style.

Don't care if he has wings or is a shadow body because he will have babies pop out of his back. In my head he can only have 3 max and they'll come out something like human children of 9 years old.

How do the holes show up? Idk magic or whatever. How do the babies not fall out while he's fighting crime? There's a translucent film over the holes that keeps the babies safely inside that they break when coming out.

He doesn't actually have sex. This is going to go like the fic Bouncing Baby Bat in which they're souls of the children of Gotham. Tweaking it though by them actually made from fragments of children souls that are killed in Gotham. This way it is explained why there's a gap between the births of his children.

And he does need to give birth in a place that is really fuckin dark or very low lighting at least.

Because I do want him to traumatize the JL so he gets his first batch of kids after already joining the justice league for some time. The first time they're on the watchtower and Bruce rushed to get to the cave because it's safe and dark. He doesn't tell the league anything, but they do see little hands coming out of his back. (Think human babies in the belly pushing their hand or foot out)

The batches are:

Dick, Cass, Jason

Steph, Tim, Harper

Duke, Cullen, Damian

They think that's all Bruce will have especially since they asked him when the next will be and his response is "No more". They just didn't know he meant no more right now.

Cue his actual last batch of Terry, Carrie, and Matt.

[goingloco]

My fav lieutenants Turel and Dumah (besides Raziel ofc), the plan is to draw them all but we'll see about that.

[tlwebb]

[dubacheryking]

Damian: Drake. Have you been stalking me.

Tim: What? No. Of Course Not. Why would I want to stalk You of all people? Don't be ridiculous.

Damian: That's a lie and I know because I've been stalking you, you fucking idiot.

Tim: ... you've been stalking. me? oh.

and then they fuck in bruce's living room. right there. don't even abscond to a different room. jason finds them and throws a shoe at tim's head.

[armed-with-a-waffle-iron]

Who was starring in which title? (Batman: Reborn Era/End of Post-Crisis)

Note: Cassandra wasn't really starring outside Gates of Gotham unfortunately.

[laufire]

the idea that bruce and alfred are a father and son pair is far more modern than a lot of people seem to realise; pre-crisis, alfred and bruce met as adults, and the process of integrating him in bruce's childhood wasn't all or nothing at first. I have the suspicion the nolanverse was a big part in changing the shape of the perception of their relationship and maybe even influenced comics canon.

I personally only embrace the idea of alfred becoming bruce's primary caretaker and pseudo-parental figure if leslie remains involved as a foster parent at some point (my personal headcanon is that bruce's custody was An Issue because even if it was in the will that bruce would go with alfred because he was fucking the waynes, why would the kane family just accept it?).

but even embracing that pseudo father-son bond... approaching their dynamic as if this is the only or even the most prominent aspect of it leads to a faulty analysis of it, from what I've seen. especially because it misattributes the power in the relationship, which is not alfred's.

in my mind (and to a few mutuals lol) I've often compared bruce with the roman figure of the pater familias, beyond the idea of a modern patriarch (though this remains influenced by it). he's the only truly-independent citizen of the household, possessing authority and controlling all the goods and people belonging to the family: those under his patria potestas: children, wife, and the household's workers/slaves.

alfred is very much subsummed into that structure. he is bruce's subordinate and it looks like this was a feature of their relationship in comics canon even if/when bruce was the child in his care (which, again, I headcanon as being Complicated). as if, probably, alfred never thought it was his "place" to be anything but a employee first. that shaped the dynamic into what it became with bruce as an unchecked adult who... definitely didn't listen to alfred if he didn't want to listen to what alfred had to say. examples abound in new earth (my personal playground) of times where alfred tries to sway bruce in the opposite direction of where he wants to go, and he miserably fails as he's railroaded in the way.

a lot of people seem to think alfred is to bruce what bruce is to dick, or jason, or or or, and this is a false equivalence because alfred, neither doylist nor watsonian-wise, was never The Patriarch in bruce's life. whatever authority he could've had over bruce as a child was clearly flimsy and likely not acted upon out of deference of the expectations -both internal and external- of their relationship, and is absolutely non-existent with bruce as an adult.

[chalkrub]

more art fights!!

[andromedakrow]

Bruce Wayne: The Dark (obvious reasons, but also throw the lonely in there for spice)

Jason Todd: The Buried or The Hunt (perchance a hint of the lonely )

Dick Grayson: Also The Hunt (maybe the slaughter, that man is a D1 crashout)

Tim Drake: The Web (Also obvious reasons that man’s got everything connected)

Barbra Gordon: The Eye (Obvious reasons)

Stephanie Brown: The Spiral (Unfortunately I don’t have the greatest knowledge of who she is as a character 😭)

Cassandra Cain: The Slaughter (Raised as a weapon + the fear of being used as one :})

Duke Thomas: The Hunt ( Again not enough info all I know is he is also probably a crash out)

Damien Wayne: The Slaughter (See Cassandra’s reason)

Alfred Pennyworth: All of them by default because he is British

Lmk who else you want me to analyze any other characters from your favorite shows in the ask box