#but i also want s3 to start with them struggling to even fix up the house

[ohmyglobwhatthefrickamievendoing]

i feel like customer service is the worst job you could get into if your previous job requirements included maiming😭

[aynavaano]

Beautifully blind

Tech x f!reader

Rating: Explicit

Wordcount: 4.6k

Summary:

Ever since you joined the Bad Batch you had your eyes on Tech, he is everything you could possibly want, soft, intelligent, caring but also strong and protective. You’ve been flirting with him for a while without any response and gave up thinking he is just not interested in you. But one day when you are left alone working on one of his modifications on the Marauder together it turns out the whole time you were speaking a language he didn’t understand.

Notes:

I really really miss Tech in S3 so I wanted to write some sweet soft smut with him. This work is inspired by “The beginners guid to Osculation” but I took things a bit further…

It’ a first time sex fic Tech x F!reader. Reader is experienced and in love with him. There is fingering, oral (f and m recieving) and unprotected sex but also a lot of fluff. It’s my first time writing Tech and a hope he is not too OOC.

You and Tech are standing in the Cockpit of the Marauder, fiddling with some cables, hanging from a wall panel, together just as Crosshair, Wrecker, and Hunter prepare for another supply run. It's been a few rotations since your arrival here, the Marauder carefully concealed in a secluded forestry patch a few klicks away from the next settlement. During this time, you've managed some much needed repairs and some of Techs planned modifications, as well as restocking on supplies. While the last supply run was a joint effort, today you and Tech decided to remain on the ship finishing his latest project and preparing for your departure, as there's little left to gather from the nearby town. Just when they're about to leave you overhear Crosshair boast to his brothers about his plans to fuck the girl from the market again, telling them they don’t need to wait for him on the way back because he’s planning to take his sweet time with her, a smug grin adorning his face, as always and a toothpick dangling in the corner of his mouth. As they make their way out Wrecker pats Crosshairs shoulder jolting him a step forward and they all burst into laughter, leaving you and Tech alone in the cockpit.

You caught a fleeting glimpse of disappointment, perhaps even a hint of sadness, in Tech's eyes at Crosshairs words and try not to think about it too much, but you can’t ignore it, you care too much about him. After silently working alongside him for a while, handing him tools and lending a hand you approach him cautiously. "Tech," you start, "I couldn't help but notice your reaction to Crosshair talking about the girl from the market. Were you... also into her?"

"What brought you to that conclusion?" he asks hesitantly, tilting his head towards you, his voice tinged with a hint of uncertainty.

"I saw your face when Crosshair mentioned her, you seemed disappointed or even sad," you say, breaking the uncomfortable silence that hung between you for a moment. He doesn't respond immediately, the weight of your observation sinking in.

To ease the tension, you quickly add, "I'm sorry, I shouldn't have asked. It's none of my business," before turning back to continue working on the panel. After a moment, Tech sighs and let’s his arms sink down, his gaze fixed on a distant point as he gathers his thoughts.

"It's not about that particular girl," he begins, his voice tinged with vulnerability, "but rather that I have never experienced the kind of intimacy Crosshair was referring to." He pauses, struggling to articulate his feelings. "It's always my brothers that succeed in getting a woman because it is extremely difficult for me to understand the subtle signs and the body language of someone I am attracted to, even if I've did a lot of research about the topic. I have accepted it but sometimes, when they brag about their experiences it’s difficult for me"

His confession catches you off guard, and you look at him with wide eyes, trying to comprehend his revelation. "Are you saying you've never been with someone... in that way?" you ask, your voice filled with disbelief.

Tech nods solemnly. "Correct, that's exactly what I said," he confirms. The realization hits you like a blaster shot to your guts – the handsome, beautiful man before you, that you’ve been admiring for such a long time, has seemingly never had the chance to experience any kind of sexual activities, and has accepted it as his fate.

"You're telling me you're a virgin?" you blurt out, startled by the revelation.

"I don't particularly like that word, but yes, that is the proper term that would apply to me," Tech responds, his expression vulnerable yet resolute. "However, to be precise, there was one incident where my brothers tried to pair me off with a woman, but I stopped it immediately, it felt extremely uncomfortable." He pauses, reflecting on his research. "For some people, it seems to be pleasant to have casual sexual encounters, while others prefer to have an emotional connection to their sexual partner. I think the latter applies to me, it needs to be with someone I know, someone I feel safe with, and am more than just attracted to in a physical way." He admit, his vulnerability shining through as he reveals, "Someone like you," the last bit of his sentence, slipping from his lips before his mind can stop him.

You almost choke on your breath, caught off guard by Tech's unexpected confession, but a giggle escapes your lips nonetheless. However, the lighthearted moment is quickly replaced by a look of embarrassment on his face. He tries to compose himself, his words stumbling out as he apologizes, "I'm… sorry,… I shouldn't have said that. Please don't ridicule me for it. I may process moments and thoughts differently, but it does not mean that I feel any less than you." He hesitates before continuing, "You don't have to say anything. I know I would never have a chance with you,"

"Oh Tech," you respond softly, reaching out to gently touch his arm. "I've not been laughing at you. I just couldn't grasp what you were saying, and how beautifully blind we both seem to be. I've been into you since forever, literally since I became part of the crew, and I've been trying to flirt with you for months, but I thought you were just not interested in me, so I gave up and let you be, because I didn't want to make you feel uncomfortable."

Tech's eyes widen in surprise at your confession. "I... I thought you were... maybe interested in Wrecker because you recently spent so much time together," he admits, his voice tinged with uncertainty.

"Oh, but that's just because Hunter wanted me to learn more about explosives, that's why, you know how bad I am with handling that kind of stuff," you explain, hoping to clear up any misunderstandings.

"Undoubtedly I see why Hunter ordered that, you almost killed us all on Onderon with that thermal detonator. I’m relieved to know you’re taking care of it” he says, adjusting his goggles to have a better look at you. You giggle gazing up at him, almost loosing yourself in his beautiful brown eyes.

“The thought never crossed my mind that someone like you would be attracted to me like that," Tech confesses, his tone tinged with self-doubt. "While I exceed my brothers in many aspects, this is a particular field where I never stood a chance against them. I see the signs, but I cannot interpret them. I observed that you've come closer to me, you are touching my arm and that your face has slightly reddened, indicating an accelerated heartbeat, but I don't know how to proceed with that information."

"Tech... stop talking," you hesitantly interject, inching a little closer to him and seeking his gaze. "Do you want to kiss me?"

Your heart races as you feel the tension building between you, his eyes locking onto yours, a sense of understanding flickering over his features.

"Yes, I would very much like that," he responds earnestly, his voice filled with anticipation. "I am positive that you already know that I am recording everything, but I want your consent if I keep recording. Will you let me?" he adds slightly nervous.

You nod in agreement, giving him the permission he seeks.

"Do you want me to kiss you, or do you want to begin?" you inquire, seeking his preference.

He pauses for a moment before expressing his desire for you to initiate the kiss and guide him.

With a soft smile, glancing up at him seeking his gaze you lean in and wrap your arms around his neck. Gently, you pull his head slightly down towards you, tilting yours upwards, eyes shut, closing the gap between your lips. It's a soft kiss, yet filled with a hunger, hoping to leave him wanting more. His lips are incredibly soft and your body starts to tingle a bit by the realization that you are really kissing Tech, it’s not another one of your daydreams, he is right here in your arms.

He doesn’t respond to the kiss, but he allows you to kiss him for a little bit longer and when you part, you notice his dilated pupils and feel the rapid beat of his heart against his chest. ”How did that feel?” you whisper, as your eyes meet, arms still wrapped around him.

"I very much enjoy how my body reacts to you, unfamiliar but very pleasant," he admits, his voice tinged with awe and slightly out of breath.

"Do you want more?" you offer selfishly, glancing up at him with a smile. He nods eagerly in response.

Encouraged, you kiss him again, now with a bit more passion. And this time he instantly responds, wrapping his arms around you and pulling you closer, his lips eagerly moving against yours. You brush your tongue against his lower lip and he opens up letting you in. You can barely control yourself anymore and when your tongues meet you feel the heat rising in your body, pooling between your legs. “Tech..” you moan softly, not parting the kiss.

Suddenly, he picks you up maneuvering you to the other side of the cockpit and onto the control panel of the Marauder. You instinctively wrap your legs around him, feeling the subtle pressure of his growing arousal against you. The intensity of the moment causes him to break the kiss, gasping for air as he tries to compose himself.

You gently cup his cheek, feeling the warmth of his skin beneath your fingertips, and ask, “Do you want to try more than just kissing?” His eyes flicker with uncertainty, and you try to voice it more clearly, “Do you want to have sex with me Tech?”

His response is eager, almost breathless, as he nods and replies, “Yes, I want.”

With a sense of anticipation coursing through you, you don’t wait any longer an swiftly discard your shirt, revealing the contours of your body to him. His gaze lingers, wide-eyed, on your bare chest, and you feel a rush of excitement at his reaction. “Touch me,” you whisper, your voice barely above a breath, inviting him to explore you further.

He hesitates, his hand trembling slightly as he reaches out, his fingers tracing the curve of your cheek before trailing down to your chest. As his fingers gently slide over your nipple, a soft gasp escapes your lips, eliciting a smile from him. “I very much like that sound,” he murmurs, his voice filled with a hint of wonder.

With a tentative question in his eyes, he asks, “Can I kiss you there?” You nod in response, a mixture of anticipation and desire coursing through you. Slowly, he leans in, his lips brushing against your skin as he trails soft kisses down your neck, lingering at the curve of your breast. Each touch sends shivers down your spine, and you can't help but let out a few more soft moans, encouraging him to continue. He slowly gets more courageous exploring you and begins to suck one of you hardened nipples into his mouth eliciting even more gasps and moans from you. It feels like he is enjoying to test what kind of sounds he can get out of you.

Trying not to break from his touch you wiggle yourself out of your pants, leaving you clad only in your little satin panties, grateful that you put one of the nicer ones on this morning. His eyes widen with a mixture of excitement and nervousness as he takes in the sight of you before him, his gaze roaming over your exposed skin, drinking in every curve and contour.

“Explore my body, Tech,” you urge him, your voice filled with longing. His fingers trace over your skin, trailing along the inside of your thighs, hesitating slightly as they brush over the soaked fabric of your panties, already dampened by your arousal. "I studied some publications about female arousal," he begins, his voice laced with curiosity, "telling from the level of wetness I assume you enjoy this a lot. Is it because you haven’t been with someone in a while? I understood that once you tried and enjoyed sexual activities, it can become something of a need?"

A soft chuckle escapes your lips at his earnestness, and you reply, "It’s not because I need it, Tech. It’s because I want it, because I want you. Your touch and your kisses caused that."

"Interesting," he remarks, his tone thoughtful as if he's processing the information. At your instruction, he carefully removes your panties, his excitement undeniable as he takes in the sight of you naked body before him. His gaze roams over you, exploring every inch of your nakedness, before he drops to his knees to get a better view.

"Touch me," you encourage him, leaning over the control panel, pressing a button to seal the entrance to the cockpit, just in case the others come back earlier than expected. With eager anticipation, he trails his fingers over your slick folds, the slightest touch sending shivers of pleasure through you. He slides one finger between your outer lips, gently parting them, his movements cautious yet purposeful, and he asks, "Is that ok?"

"You don’t have to ask for my consent anymore, Tech," you reassure him, your desire evident in your voice. "I want this. I want you."

With that assurance, he very carefully begins to slide a finger into you, and you moan softly at the sensation, encouraging him to continue. Another finger follows suit, and he begins to move hesitantly, exploring the depths of your warm core. It feels incredible, his touch igniting a fire within you that threatens to consume you entirely.

So many months you had spent fantasizing about something like this, but after he didn’t react to your flirting attempts you gave up and now you are here, completely naked, spread all over the control panel, with Tech between your legs and his fingers pushing into you.

He curls his fingers up, finding that sweet, soft spot that sends waves of extra strong pleasure coursing through your body and you can't help but cry out his name. His touch is intoxicating, each movement bringing you closer to the edge of an orgasm.

Feeling yourself on the brink, you gasp, "Tech, I won’t last long if you keep doing that." He hesitates for a moment, unsure what to do, but you encourage him to continue. "No, it’s good. I just… you will make me cum very quickly if you keep doing that," you assure him, your voice filled with desire.

Surprised but delighted by your response, Tech eagerly returns to his attention to your core. "Oh, I would love to give you an orgasm if you let me," he admits, his enthusiasm undeniable. You nod “Please” and with your consent, he thrust back into you, his fingers moving with purpose and determination.

Leaning in closer, he focuses his attention on your clit, his tongue adding a new dimension to the pleasure. It's a revelation, the intensity building with each thrust of his fingers, you cant believe he’s never done that before, but then again he is the man that knows everything.

You feel your body tensing up already and it takes only a few more flicks of his tongue against your clit before you cum. Stars shatter before your eyes and it feels incredibly good to ride out your orgasm on his fingers, your body trembling with the force of your release. You moan his name, lost in the pleasure pulsing through you, your head thrown back, eyes rolling in bliss.

Looking up at you in awe, Tech savors the sight before him. He's completely captivated by the way your body responds to his touch, determined not to miss a single moment of it.

After you slowly descend from the heights of your orgasm, he carefully slides his finger out of you and rises to his feet, standing before you. You lean up and press your lips to his. "Do you want me to explore your body?" you inquire, and he eagerly nods in response. You gracefully slip from the control panels, your eyes locked on him as he swiftly sheds his armor with practiced hands. When he's down to the bottom of his blacks, you gently guide him backward into the pilot's seat, a silent invitation for him to surrender to your touch.

You approach him with a mix of excitement and tenderness, fully aware that this is his first experience and taking care not to overwhelm him. You position yourself between his legs, one hand trailing over his chest and you leave a few heated kisses on his neck before you kneel down, your eyes lock with his, offering reassurance. "Relax, Tech. Let me take care of you," you say softly.

With a slow and deliberate hand, you begin to undo his pants, revealing his evident arousal. Your gaze flickers to his cock, noting its impressive length and girth, feeling a surge of desire as you prepare to pleasure him. Slowly taking him into your mouth, you start with gentle movements, savoring the taste of him as you explore each inch of his beautiful thick cock.

Tech's breath catches in his throat as you work him, his fingers tightening on the armrests. "Do you like how it feels?" you murmur, your voice a soft hum against his sensitive skin. He manages to nod, his expression a mix of pleasure and wonder as you continue.

Adjusting your pace, you find a rhythm that suits him, teasing and tantalizing as you build his arousal. With each movement, you feel him growing harder beneath your touch, his hips shifting instinctively to meet your mouth. "I…I’m close," he gasps, his voice strained with desire.

Despite the temptation to push him over the edge just now and see his beautiful brown eyes flutter, you hold back, knowing that you want to give him more. With a loving smile, you ease off, allowing him a moment to catch his breath. "Not yet," you whisper, your voice laced with anticipation. “I would like to ride you, do you want that?”

Tech's eyes widen with surprise and need as he understands what you want to do. With a hungry look in his eyes, he nods eagerly.

You rise from your knees, moving with purpose as you straddle his lap, positioning yourself above him. With a delicate touch, you guide his throbbing cock to the entrance of your slick, wet core, feeling the anticipation building between you. The pressure of his length against you already sends shivers down your spine, aching with desire for more. "Are you ready?" you whisper, your breath hot against his ear as you pepper his neck with soft kisses. Unable to speak, Tech nods eagerly, his eyes filled with longing as he awaits your next move.

As you lower yourself onto him, a wave of pleasure washes over you, his thick cock stretching you in all the right ways. You moan with satisfaction, relishing in the sensation of being filled by him. Tech's heartbeat quickens beneath you, his shallow breaths echoing the intensity of the moment. "Breathe, Tech," you murmur, planting tender kisses along his jawline, allowing him a moment to adjust to the feeling of being inside you.

With a slow, deliberate pace, you begin to move, rising and falling on his length, each stroke sending waves of pleasure coursing through both of you. Tech's composed facade begins to crack, his control slipping away as he succumbs to the ecstasy of your union. You enjoy to see him slowly coming undone in front of you. Tech, who is always in control, always composed is coming undone. And you love that you can do that to him.

As you increase your rhythm, Tech's hands find hold on your waist, his touch grounding you as you ride him. You brace yourself against his shoulders, granting him a beautiful view of your bouncing breasts right before his face, fueling his desire even further. You feel him tensing up, his cock pressing even harder against your walls with every move. “It’s okay Tech” you reassure him, “cum inside me”urging him to let go and release within you.

You lean down to leave a few kisses and gentle bites along his neck, increasing your pace further and it doesn’t take long until he succumbs to the overwhelming pleasure, his cock pulsating within you as he spills his warm cum deep inside your core. The sensation of him filling you up is so overwhelmingly good it triggers another orgasm, sending shockwaves of pleasure coursing through your body. You cry out his name as you clench around him, the intensity of your orgasm echoing his own. He looks at you in awe by the sensation of your pussy tightening around his cock. Collapsing onto his chest, you both bask in the aftermath, your bodies entwined and slick with sweat, lost in the euphoria of your connection.

Tech catches his breath first, his chest rising and falling as he composes himself. "I would enjoy doing that again sometime," he admits, his voice filled with a hint of longing but also uncertainty.

You smile warmly, reassurance in your eyes as you reply, "Whenever you want, Tech. I'm yours." Leaning in, you press your lips against his, a soft and tender kiss filled with promise. “I love you,” you whisper, your words carrying the weight of your affection.

As his softened cock slowly begins to slip out of you, you feel his warm cum dripping from your core onto the seat beneath you. "I should clean that up before we make a mess here," you remark, a playful glint in your eyes as you glance down at the evidence of your shared passion.

Tech nods in agreement, his gaze lingering on you as he gestures towards the fresher. "Go on. I'll take care of the cockpit," he offers, his tone gentle yet determined, showing his willingness to share the responsibilities.

Before you can leave, he pulls you close, his lips capturing yours in a deep and passionate kiss. "Thank you," he murmurs against your lips, his gratitude evident in his touch as he expresses his appreciation for your connection.

"For what?" you wonder, eager to understand the depth of his emotions.

"For communicating with me in a way that I understand," he explains, his words resonating with sincerity as he acknowledges the significance of your connection and the efforts you've made to bridge any gaps in understanding.

With a smile and a soft kiss, you accept his gesture, making your way to the fresher, mindful not to leave a trail of cum behind as you prepare to clean up. As you go, you're filled with a sense of contentment, knowing that despite any challenges, you and Tech have found a way to connect deeply, both physically and emotionally.

When you tap out of the fresher, all cleaned up, clothes back on, you are relieved to see that the others seemingly still haven’t returned, giving you and Tech a little more time together. Glancing over at the cockpit, you notice it looks nice and clean, as if nothing had happened. Satisfied, you step outside the Marauder and find Tech sitting in the low grass, his datapad in hand and connected to his ears. He smiles at you, and you can't help but return the smile as you approach him.

"What are you doing?" you inquire, curiosity lacing your tone.

"I'm listening to the sounds you made," he responds, a happy glance in his eyes. Your cheeks flush at his words, and he chuckles softly. "I enjoy this very much, it's already my favorite recording."

He pulls you in for a kiss, and you melt into his embrace, feeling a sense of warmth and affection wash over you. You make yourself comfortable in the grass next to him and he hands you a cup of fresh caff, asking if you feel good.

"Haven’t felt so good in a while…and thank you for cleaning up the cockpit," you express your gratitude, but a hint of worry creeps into your voice. "But I guess that Hunter will smell it anyway. He can smell a Bantha ten klicks against the wind."

Tech laughs, reassuring you. "That is precisely right, but don't worry. I spilled some caff to cover up the scent for now. However, we will need to tell them eventually that we…we…”

“…had sex in Hunters ship and will continue to do so?” you offer to finish the sentence with a wide grin on your face.

“That we are engaging in a romantic relationship. And that is MY ship" he corrects you. “But I fear their response to this news will not be that elated at first.”

You furrow your brows in concern, prompting him to explain further. "Why do you think your brothers won't be happy for you, Tech?"

He adjusts his goggles, his expression thoughtful. "Because shortly after you became part of our crew, they made a bet on who would get… who would succeed in having sex with you first. And the bet was not on me. And not on a relationship either, rather on a more... casual encounter."

"Who was it?" you ask, curious to know the outcome.

Tech sighs, his gaze dropping momentarily. "On Crosshair. It was on Crosshair. I bet on him too. Statistically, he has the highest success rate, so it was a safe bet... I thought."

You chuckle softly, realizing the implications, of course it was Crosshair. "Well, that will dent his ego a bit, but he'll survive it," you laugh, needless to say Crosshair is a handsome man with an aura that is best described as intense but he’s just not your type, you prefer soft and nerdy but lethal, and sometimes a bit unhinged, just like the beautiful man sitting beside you.

Feeling a sense of content wash over you, you happily lean into Tech, resting your head on his chest as you revel in the comfort and security of his embrace.

Shouldn't we finish the modification we abandoned?" you inquire, gazing up at the sky.

"I would much rather enjoy the time with you out here," Tech responds, his voice filled with warmth. "It is not often that we are on a planet where the atmosphere is breathable, meteorological conditions are predominantly pleasant, and there is no extremely hostile wildlife that we have to pay attention to. Besides, with your help, I can quickly finish the modification later. We will need to learn to enjoy the moments we get together without my brothers, as they will be scarce."

You gaze up at him in awe, feeling a sense of gratitude wash over you as you cuddle closer to him. "Well,if we have time, then tell me everything you know about those little fuzzy creatures up there jumping around in the trees," you say, pointing towards the playful fury animals in the distance.

He smiles down at you, his eyes reflecting fondness. "Gladly," he responds, before leaning in to give you the softest, most loving kiss.

As he begins to speak, his voice takes on the tone of a database, filled with information about the local wildlife. You've always loved animals and listening to Tech talking for hours about the local wildlife and its possible dangers or benefits during missions has fascinated you each time. But now, wrapped in his arms, experiencing this as private lecture and stealing a few kisses in between is the best feeling in the galaxy

[maxphilippa]

i find it genuinely sad that people only talk about misogyny on the ii fandom when it comes to defending taco but no one goes over the way people treats most of the female characters which is like ACTUALLY misogynistic and the actual issue. i went over taco's thing a lot of times already but i'll also cover it here. like lets see how people treat women on ii briefly.

like have you seen how people treat suitcase. how she's often treated as a kid/constantly forgotten as a person outside of using her as a weapon to villainize a guy that does want to fix things with her. have you seen how little care people put on her. have you seen how they only remember that she exists for suitloon or barely even have anything to comment on her

have you seen people talking about candle outside of her being hot or outside of silvercandle? have you seen how people LITERALLY villainized her because she wanted to take care of herself? have you seen anyone say anything about her on a deep way? have you ever seen people focus on the way working with silver affected her outside of "silver doesn't deserve her"?

have you seen how GENUINELY HORRID people were about cabby winning s3? how they still SOMEHOW made it about silver? how people were incredibly ableist towards her? how they still kept going on how cabby wasn't an actual good person? on how she didn't deserve the win?

have you seen how mic, the character that genuinely has the best writting in the whole show, only gets talked about to completely miss the point of her arc AND ONLY for shipping, completely disregarding her growth as a person? completely forgetting that her story is one of growth and healing?

have you seen how people sexualized test tube to the point where she's only seen as a hot scientist or as a weird gal who's a freak instead of focusing on the fact that she's someone who heavily struggles with mental health and making connections? like people simped a lotttttt for her when she was having a whole breakdown because she was going to lose her friend, and no one really focused fully on those aspects of test tube's character.

have you seen the overall way people treat lightbulb? she's just a shell of her character for the fandom. she's genuinely so so deep and interesting but she got fully downgraded to just nonsense on fanon takes.

have you seen how people treat taco? have you seen someone even focus on her as a character outside of her being a "hot villain"? have you seen anyone actually get what she's going through? have you seen anyone wanting her to get better but also not forgetting what she has done? have you seen anyone actually understand why she can't get a redemption arc on the traditional sense? have you seen anyone not immediately go to defend her when taco herself does not want to be excused, nor does she think she should be? have you seen anyone getting that she's a complex character and that they can still enjoy her without having to excuse her actions? have you seen anyone ACTUALLY getting why taco needs to let go of ii and not make up with the people she hurted? have you seen anyone treating taco on a reasonable way? have you seen anyone treating her as fully capable of doing bad things but also capable of getting better if she really does try? have you seen SOMEONE that actually CARES about taco outside of her being attractive?

my point is. the ii fandom is rooted in misogyny, yes. but it is not because of people preferring other characters or what not. sure there MIGHT be some cases in which that's the thing, but most of times it isn't. the fandom is genuinely overall horrid about women and don't actually focus on them outside of being hot either. like i have once seen someone who genuinely hated candle but simped for her because her violence was hot in ep 17 and like. that's Not Really Good.

and most of the fem characters that aren't deemed hot or don't have anything to hate them for get often ignored (ex. pepper, soap, clover, etc). also don't get me started on how MOST OF THE TIMES THEY JUST HAVE TO give women a familiar relationship with a male character to which they happen to have a positive relationship with on hcs (ex. Candle and Yinyang being hced as mother/sons, Cabby and Yinyang is the same case) which uh. you know. it doesn't really sit right with me

you can think a woman character is hot/attractive and also care about her. you can like a fucked up woman as well while also not justifying her actions, it won't make you a bad person. like personally i really really love microphone and find her attractive but at the same time i genuinely care about her story and how much she's a story about growth and finding yourself, alongside with other people. a lot of the stories of the women charas are ultimately about growth and finding themselves on ii. and i think all of you should be focusing on the depth of a character instead on whether a character is hot or not therefore we can define if they deserve to be treated with decency, like that's ever done anything positive anyway

!! THIS POST IS NOT LOOKING TO CAUSE TACO RELATED DISCOURSE. KEEP THAT SHIT TO YOURSELF. THIS POST WAS MADE AS A FORM OF CRITICISM ON HOW LITTLE PEOPLE ACTUALLY CARE ABOUT FEM CHARACTERS ON II WHILE ACCUSING OTHERS OF MISOGYNY SO DELIBERATELY. IF YOU GET OUT OF TOPIC I'LL BITE YOUR HEAD OFF (NOT A SERIOUS THREAT BUT BY GOD BE DECENT) !!

[yannaryartside]

WE NEED 5 SEASONS

Okay I need to vent a little. Please indulge me

This is for this article that says the 5th season is up to Storer.

Storer said they filmed most of season 4, and some things still need to be filmed. So we will have s4 next summer, and we don't know if there will be a 5th one.

I could put my hand on fire to my belief that we will have 5 seasons. Mostly, because regardless of the importance of showing “being trapped in negative patterns” that was s3 for multiple characters, is not gonna be a satisfying conclusion if all those patterns are resolved in one season.

Realistically, i would not make sense.

Even if you think Claire is Carmy’s salvation, this graceful, perfect angel that came to serve Carmy’s redemption, and when they get together, everything will be fine (that narrative sucks ass, by the way, is perpetually insulting to everyone that had ever had a mental illness to suggest them they only need to fall on the hands of someone that ignores all their defects and are determined to please them). You could believe this is all about self-sabotage, and Carmy will wake up next season, apologize to Claire, save the restaurant by ex-maquina magic, and get his happy ending. Yeah, that will be 4 seasons of a conclusive story and an objectively terrible narrative. It is also very insulting to every person who has a romantic partner who struggles with addiction and/or mental illness to tell them they need to be this fairy tale of a person who is Claire to bring "peace" to their partner and basically solve their life. Fuck that. I refuse to believe they are doing that on purpose.

But if they put the “sleigh of hand” and Carmy has to realize that his emotional dependence on Claire is toxic and only contributed to his depression and disassociation, since you spent all S3 pulling him in that direction, making him believe that is what he wanted/needed, you are going to need a whole season for him even to “scape the illusion.” All of this will align with the Bear having to close, Syd potentially leaving, and starting dating Luca. So, S4 is going to be the “wake-up call.”

S5 should be the season of creating new patterns. Carmy will get into therapy. Syd will come back. The two will create new recipes and work on the menu (collaboration, vulnerability). They will realize they have true feelings for one another. Each character will move towards the place they are gonna end up with.

If you created a whole season about "being in the freeze response" and another two previous seasons of extending trauma and bad coping mechanisms, you are gonna need more than one season to fix that; mental wellness is not like that; it should be treated like something that requires more time combined with efforts.

Not to mention, if SydCarmy is indeed happening, you have spent 3 fucking seasons creating distance between them. I also feel like so much of Sydney's life (to her and to us) is trapped around Carmy's issues, and it actually would make more sense for her to realize being with Carmy is too taxing for her, regardless if she had the most realistic tools to actually help him to grow.

You also had not given Sydney a proper arc to grow from her insecurities and follow her dreams. She still seems to be as insecure of her own skills as when she came in, because Carmy insist on creating a menu based on his trauma. Regardless of his good intentions and the beauty of their connection, she will leave the "bear narrative" as if Carmy is the closest thing she had to a chef David, as if Carmy was the monster she needed to endure to "grow" or "decide better." Fuck that.

[ladyluscinia]

I think they were so worried about not getting a season 3 they ruined both the viewers expecting one and the viewers who would've liked it to end there. they've created an easily destroyable status quo because of course something needs to happen to get everyone back together for season 3. so it's not even a happy ending; it's so fragile, it's designed to fall apart the second that anyone learns that the show is back on. i get not wanting to bank on having a third season and wrapping it up but like. Galavant did that and did it better. WITH THE HEROES RETIRING AND THE TWO MINUTE MARRIAGE CEREMONY TO BOOT. But it gave an outline of where the plot might go from there and how the adventure will continue if it gets to. And it never got to, and season 2's ending is good because it's not /fragile/--it's not a cliffhanger, but you get the idea that they could keep going from there still. whereas this one didn't want to be a cliffhanger so much that they created the most breakable new status quo in history and if there is a season 3 it'll immediately be undone and I'll probably still watch it but like I'll /know/, y'know? They could fix everything in the first episode of season 3 and I'd still have to know that at one point, this was considered an acceptable outcome.

The thing that is driving me absolutely insane is they DID NOT HAVE TO DO THIS!

There's so many people looking at it like "well it's a shame that 2x08 clearly had to cram several episodes into one for budget reasons and it made the development weaker but that's the situation MAX put them in" and I cannot emphasize enough how much that is not true.

MAX did not break it to them after episodes 2x01 - 2x07 were written and half filmed that they would have to wrap up the whole plot in 30 minutes. Like absolute worst case scenario they had 10 eps mostly written and budget came back 20% over and they had to reduce to 8 total. More likely they knew they were getting 8 from the start.

It is absolutely nobody's fuck up except David Jenkins and his writers' room if they were unrealistic about what character beats were needed and would fit in the timeframe to reach a satisfying wrap up.

Worries about no S3 were on the table the moment it took until JUNE to get confirmation of S2. This wasn't sprung on them. If they wanted their story to have a "just in case" happy ending and then a "fully realized arc" happy ending, they should have fucking acted like it???

I was shocked when the first three episodes that dropped were so hardcore on destroying Edward's relationships and laying bare exactly how deep his issues went. It only made sense to me if they were going all in on getting a S3 and prepared to spend all of S2 focused on the implications of all that, and then the not-even two week in-universe timeline of the season reinforced my understanding that was happening.

"Shame we don't have time for our main couple to even start addressing their relationship or having moments of self-realization and sharing their issues," says guy who decided to make the first half of S2 about adding more problems on top of well established ones from S1 and the second half of S2 about throwing in a second breakup cycle instead of dealing with the fallout from the first.

Want Edward to end on a beat of feeling part of the found family? Well maybe adding a timeskip after 2x05 and then a crew chat in 2x06 where you make it clear he did an apology tour offscreen could help, but you also could have just not focused hard on him poisoning his relationship with every single one of them in the first place???

There's multiple different ways you can do Act 2 of a three act structure, and they did not have to choose one that ends on another dark cliffhanger beat or right at the open ended turning point toward growth? Like they didn't even do the one they picked in a way they could fit in their season. I feel like by the end of a struggles Act 2 both your protagonists need to have self-realized their issues and maybe had one conversation about it? Edward still wasn't talking about his guilt, and Stede wasn't talking about anything.

They aren't even at the turning point of growth and out of the backsliding / lessons learned era yet, that's why potential S3 will start on another backslide when status quo breaks and Stede starts "that's nice, dear"-ing Edward during the day and slipping out at night to vicariously listen to pirate stories or whatever (and they frame it like he's cheating).

We have two out of three seasons in a show that might only get two, and I feel like the characters have barely moved from their starting position.

Like idk maybe they are really good at coming up with character flaws - ex: Stede is repressed and bottles up his traumas until he mentally checks out / runs away - and just drawing blanks on how to believably "fix" them, but just going "well what if we just used this flaw to throw another miscommunication roadblock in their relationship?" is not getting them where they want to be.

The season was fundamentally designed against their stated goal and did not make what seem to be necessary writing concessions to the reduced screentime if they wanted their finale to land as an even plausibly happy ending. It's hollow.

And possibly not even salvageable in S3 since they aren't demonstrating the skills to salvage it.

[shrinkthisviolet]

Savitar and Reverb for the character ask game, just to be a bit cheeky here if you're okay with it :))

YESSS 🥳 I love the chance to talk about Savitar more, thank you thank you

Savitar

How I feel about this character: I really like him, but uh…in canon, he’s just fine. He’s much cooler in fanfics, canon dropped the ball on him. He should’ve been more Comics Future Flash, less Comics Savitar/Zoom 2.0

All the people I ship romantically with this character: Reverb 💞

(Also Iris and Cisco, but like...not in an actual relationship lol more in a toxic one-sided kind of way. The dynamic intrigues me)

My non-romantic OTP for this character: Barry (you might've noticed I don’t tend to ship doppelgängers 😅 but I do love their platonic dynamics, I feel like that says a lot about them!)

Killer Frost would be here if Savitar ever treated her as an equal 💀 unfortunately, he didn’t (it baffles me how some fics act like he canonically did?? She was very much his underling, that’s no secret)

My unpopular opinion about this character: he was terrible in s3 apart from the episodes where he was unmasked. Everything else was a waste of time

One thing I wish would happen / had happened with this character in canon: Get rid of the scar, have him impersonate Barry throughout s3. Sporadically, and without alerting Barry, but in such a way that he slowly erodes Barry’s relationships and makes him think he’s crazy. You can even still have the Flashpoint meta nonsense going on in the background...but here, it’s a distraction, and it’s working. And then, either to us or to Barry, reveal Savitar unmasked by like...episode 10 or 15 or something. Maybe just to us in episode 10, and to Barry in like...episode 17 or 20

Then cut out the amnesia plot or make Savitar central to that episode. And just like that, he’s more of a threatening presence without trying to make him a Zoom knock-off.

I have another potential fix-it involving him, Iris, and Barry, but...I’m plotting that currently, so I’ll keep my lips sealed about it for now 😉

Reverb

How I feel about this character: He’s awesome! An awesome foil to Cisco 💞 and super underrated

All the people I ship romantically with this character: Savitar

My non-romantic OTP for this character: Killer Frost, I feel like they had a really cool underexplored dynamic that I would’ve liked to see more of

My unpopular opinion about this character: I wish we’d seen more of him tbh 😭 maybe in Cisco's nightmares in s3?

One thing I wish would happen / had happened with this character in canon: To expand on the above: we know from s2 that Cisco struggled with one day becoming Reverb and worked through it. Which is great, but...when Caitlin started fr turning into Killer Frost, it would’ve been neat if Cisco once again struggled with turning into Reverb and had nightmares about it. And maybe he could’ve fr turned (perhaps with some prodding by Savitar, who loves Cisco deep down and wants him by his side), and we could've gotten an E1 Saverb (or Savifrostverb, if Savitar felt like treating KF as an equal) team-up 👀

Alternatively, as in this fic (thank you @kitkatt0430/@starstruckpurpledragon, you’re a gem in this fandom), Savitar could’ve pulled Reverb out of his timeline and teamed up with him that way. I just really wish I could've seen a Saverb team-up, it would’ve been SO COOL 😭

character ask game!

[bekaterrier]

Happy Audio Drama Sunday! I wasn't able to put together a post last week so this week you're getting a double dose.

@tellnotalespod S2 E14 - Fixing Things: I'm with Leo and being concerned about Riley. I'm glad they ended up talking things out, in the way that only friends of 20 years can do: incredibly bluntly. The talk with Mickey was what Leo needed, but now I'm also concerned about her and all the other ghosts we've met! They really need to figure out this deteriorating spirit plane thing...

Tell No Tales S2 E15 - Crafting Universes: If S2 E2 was a love letter to audio drama, this episode felt like a love letter to D&D.

"...with the right people, you and your friends are making entire worlds unfold at the table. . . five of the people you love most in the world are sat at the table with you, telling stories of their own, with goals and motivations of their own. . . if everyone there has that trust in each other, then the table fades away entirely, and by the end you’ve crafted a universe together."

Also, I've been saying all season that Julia would be such a great asset to their research, and I'm glad to be proven right!

@proserpinapark S2 & S3: It was so fun hearing Alina, Drew, and Jun learn more about the park and the creatures within, as well as listen to Dog struggle to keep them safe. I'd heard of some of the creatures and myths, but I learned about so many more! It was also great to hear more from Mirai and what's going on with her and her trek to find her other brother. I have so many questions about the park, how they're going to save it, what happened to the other Jun, where has Mirai gone off to...I can't wait for the next season to start up!

@monkeymanproductions's Moonbase Theta, Out - Phases: The MTO world continues to live on through short stories on Patreon. July's story gave us some insight into the origins of an absolutely beloved character, Moddy Sarah. Deej proves once again that they belong in feelings jail as this story made me cry. If you're like me and you want to live with the MTO characters a little longer, their Patreon with these short stories is the place to be.

@midnightburgr's Welcome to the Horizon Part 4: The Recluse: I go into every Horizon episode wondering what weird stuff we're getting this time, and this episode did not disappoint. The fungi! I like how June is thinking outside the box and getting Verge's (and Eldin's) help. I am concerned about Frank running in with no mask, even though Eldin said he thought he would be fine. I also like seeing the other town members starting to come together over these weird things, like Flat Doug comforting Trinkett at the end. This mini-series contributes to be hilarious and intriguing.

@vestaclinicpod: I needed something comforting to listen to at the end of this week, so I did a re-listen of The Vesta Clinic. There are so many things I love about this show: how compassionate it is, the rapport between the docs (yes, Sec counts here), the absolute creativity in the world building and patient cases... I can't wait for S2, hearing more from the other docs and clinic team members, finding out more about what was up with the prof and what Sec asked Faye to help him with, and all of the captivating new patients.

[wibble-wobbegong]

honestly i think that people who misunderstand mike the most are those who can’t understand that his emotional intelligence isn’t impacted by his obliviousness. they’re two different things entirely. mike has a pretty deep understanding of himself and what he feels, and we see him do a great job at communicating his anger to el in s1 in a manner that’s very intelligent for a twelve year old. mike understands that he’s angry at el for lying to him and he believes it’s wrong, but that doesn’t get in the way of him knowing el still deserves to have shelter and food. he takes care of her even though he’s angry because he understands that his justified anger doesn’t mean he can hurt her. of course he lashed out initially, but it doesn’t stay that way. he communicates.

mike has a great understanding of his own emotions and his own morality but he often struggles when it comes to others. mike connects with people through relatability and very direct communication; he needs to use his understanding of himself to understand others. when he’s trying to understand why el in S4, he tries to connect their experiences so he can understand why she would want to lie about being bullied to him. on the other end of the spectrum, we see mike connecting with will in the shed scene through his own experiences. it isn’t a memory like joyce or jonathan, not really. what he does is tells will that he’s important because of his impact on himself (mike). that may come off as egocentric, but that’s what mike knows how to do. he’s relying on his own experience to show will how important he is.

that’s also what makes mike and will work so well together. will communicates with mike in a way he understands. what mike needs in order to build a deeper relationship with people is for them to connect with him by telling him their own perspective. the moments that resonate with mike the most are the ones where will is telling mike his own experience. will’s brutal honesty is what mike needs in order to understand that something is wrong and his explanation that it’s scary to tell people how you really feel not only gives mike information to work with, it’s something we see him relate to.

in the same vein, this type of emotional intelligence is exactly what leads mike to repress himself so intensely. mike sees what’s happening clear as day and he doesn’t like it, so he pushes it down and away. he’s aware that he’s fighting something. but, and this is where that misunderstanding comes into play, his awareness that he’s repressing something and trying to fix himself doesn’t mean he’s intentionally hurting other people. he gets easily caught up in his own emotions and falls into habitual isolation to deal with it (we see this almost every season), which denies him that connection and perspective he needs in order to realize that what he’s doing is hurting other people. he gets so focused on fixing himself because his insecurities take over and start blinding him; he hasn’t allowed himself to be vulnerable enough to connect with other people, so he believes he’s alone in his experience and begins to isolate. in doing so, he hurts others, but it isn’t intentional and the second that connection reappears and that direct and brutal honesty is back, he starts to change. S3 is especially hard for him because el doesn’t quite have the ability to communicate what she needs or wants (and she still struggles with this in S4) and will isn’t giving him the full perspective he needs. but it’s enough for him to change.

this belief that mike’s isolation and need to create connections is done out of egocentrism is SO wrong but incredibly common otherwise. even those who understand he isn’t being intentionally harmful and is doing his best are still subject to the double edged sword of falling too heavily into the oblivious factor to the point where his understanding of himself is erased, or by falling into the idea that mike’s emotional intelligence means he must be aware of the harm he’s doing and is therefore doing it out of malice. it can be hard to balance because these features look so different in every relationship he has. mike doesn’t have the ability to communicate with everyone equally because not everyone understands how to communicate with mike, which is why we see him acting so differently in heart to hearts with will than with el. i fully believe that we could have gotten a sweet moment out of the elmike fight had they been able to understand each other, but they couldn’t. mike needs pieces of a puzzle to help him put things together in his head, but el can’t give him the pieces he needs because that isn’t how she communicates. her lack of ability to lay things out flat creates a harsh contrast with mike who needs that.

mike is self aware to a fault, and it’s only heightened by how he understands the world around him. he feels his emotions how he feels them and understands that, but everything else is a puzzle to solve and he only has his own experience to give him the ability to solve it. he gets better at solving puzzles over time, but the puzzles continue to get more advanced as his world becomes more complex, as it the result of growing up.

TLDR; he Autism as hell 👍

[sunflower73498]

My early thoughts on Season 3 Ep 1-5

mostly unprocessed ramblings but things I want to keep thinking about

(1) I think most importantly, Wille and Simon (and the rest of the characters, really) act like actual teenagers - teens don’t have it all together and don’t always communicate their feelings well and sometimes struggle to see things from other perspectives, especially when they are traumatized and grieving. I love that they show what a complicated phase of growing up adolescence is, in a very realistic way. Many teens struggle with lack of control in their own lives and can act out because of it, and in Wille’s case this is majorly amplified by having even less control because of the monarchy.

(2) fandom has idolized Erik, but I’ve never thought he was that great. As the viewer we get him more from Wille’s perspective so an idealized version of him until now, but there are definitely words and actions in s1e1 that were major red flags.

(3) I feel so bad for Wilhelm and his lack of support or interest from his parents. His outburst was deserved. Extreme, and scary, but what he said to them was a long time coming.

(4) I’ve seen people on Twitter saying that this season takes back some of Wilhelm’s character growth in season 2, which I disagree with. A handful of therapy sessions doesn’t fix his grief, the impact of being in the spotlight, his lifelong anxiety, or his parents neglecting him. I’m Season 2 he began a long journey of figuring out what matters to him, but that was just the first step, and I think s3 does a good job of showing how that is very much still a work in progress for him. He is trying, but often missteps and doesn’t communicate well.

(5) really loving getting to explore Simons emotions and reactions more. He’s also a work in progress just from a different starting point. He has his own family trauma, but having the support of his mom and his friends definitely makes a difference in how he approaches problems, even if his mom isn’t always the most attentive either. It’s also a realistic family dynamic with a history of domestic trauma/violence.

(6) I appreciated the hazing plot line. I went to a big public university in the US with very active Greek life, and our sororities and fraternities always had lots of hazing problems. The fraternities much more so, including a kid dying due to the hazing process while I was there, but some of my friends who rushed sororities also had some bad stories to tell.

(7) the acting is phenomenal

there are so many ups and downs for Wilmon and I’m glad the characters are complex and imperfect enough that I feel so deeply for them, even when it hurts as a fan of the ship and the individual characters. It hurts so much at times because it matters and it’s so real. Yeah, not everyone is a rich prince, but the emotions, the struggle for control and identity, is very universal.

(I really hope I’ve tagged this for spoilers appropriately. I’ve been on tumblr for 13+ years but mostly just lurk)

[farfromstrange]

The way Matt displays some symptoms of Borderline personality disorder makes me wonder if there’s actually some undiagnosed personality disorder hiding in his brain.

Fear of abandonment, unstable relationships (that he’s at fault for because he pushes people away in an attempt to protect them), explosive anger paired with mood swings, struggling with self-image (that man constantly questions who he is), self-destructive behavior and self-harm (it displays in the way he sabotages his relationships and jumps head-first into danger. He’s abusing alcohol regularly because he’s “had a bad day” and the way he’s getting himself beat in S3 just for the thrill of it borders on serious self-harm tendencies), and his constant suspicions keep him detached from reality (I believe his senses make it easier for him to actually SENSE danger, but he also sometimes sees it when there is none just because he’s been taught to always be vigilant and risk his life if need be). I can’t say if he’s feeling empty, I just remember he said he felt hollow when Elektra almost died, but the way he’s living his life on the edge all the fucking time tells me he’s just trying to feel something, and the sadness he displays and how lost he sounded when he told Karen that he can’t do this alone… yeah, that man is broken inside, barely holding on and extremely mentally unstable.

Matthew has trauma and I’m pretty sure his need to self-destruct stems from a serious high-functioning depression he refuses to address or get help with because “he’s fine, he doesn’t need therapy”, and that is all caused by the trauma of the accident, his dad dying and then what Stick did with him. He thinks asking for help is weakness and he doesn’t want to hurt the people he cares about, which he does though with the way he treats himself and drives a wedge between them because he’s so scared of losing them that he pushes them away in an attempt to shield himself, and it’s a spiral that just keeps on going down and he can’t get out of it. A mouse on a wheel that can’t escape, almost. He knows he needs help, maybe it’s his father’s voice in his head, but he can’t take it because he feels responsible. He feels responsible for everything bad in the world and wants to change it, but he can’t fix everything so he constantly beats himself up for it (and gets beaten). Like I stated above, his need to self-destruct is greater than self-preservation – he protects his heart by pushing people away, but doesn’t want to lose them either, so he either holds on too tight or not at all. Unstable relationships, as mentioned above.

It all leads back to the trauma Stick inflicted on him. So I’m slightly torn about the BPD suspicions because he’s only started displaying those symptoms after his dad died and Stick started training him. He twisted all of Matt’s views, and even though he’s trying hard to fight what he put in his head, Stick is always whispering in his ear and it makes him sabotage everything around him for what he thinks is right. While he displays personality disorder symptoms, serious ones at that, it might just be a trauma response, or perhaps he inherited something from his mother after all and he’s had the genetic predisposition since he was born. Mental illness is hereditary, after all. Not always, but if your parents are sick, the likelihood that you will get sick too is extremely high because your brain has a serious hormonal imbalance from the beginning.

I understand where Matt comes from, but I just wish my boy would go about this differently. He has friends, he needs to let them be a part of his life. And he realizes that at the end of S3 after Foggy swore to hold on to him, not leave like everyone else did, and that’s twisted on his part because Matt hurt him and he had every right to leave, but he doesn’t and Matt eventually realizes that he’s not alone. But he still needs to work through his issues and all the trauma inflicted on him ever since he could think.

Thanks for coming to my TED talk.

[brionysea]

controversial opinion (brought to you by twitter idiots who don't deserve to have an opinion): people give lucas too much leeway for not wanting to play dnd with will in s3, while they treat mike as if he murdered someone.

a) mike was distancing himself from "childish things" because he perceived it necessary to keep up appearances (which in the mind of a queer boy who's terrified of people noticing his oddity, is a life or death situation). lucas simply wasn't in the mood.

b) mike was the one who thought to apologize first. the moment things got out of control, he chased after will to apologize. and sure, that led to the rain fight which is a bigger transgression (way beyond just dnd), but people like to forgive lucas because "at least he apologized", when the only reason mike didn't get to do it was because will left the wheelers, then because the mind flayer came back.

c) part of the reason mike was so dismissive of will and focused on el (which again, he considered a priority) was because of lucas' advise and encouragement (and the unintentional peer pressure to fix things with el).

the day when people realize that neither mike nor lucas intended to hurt will, therefore aren't "assholes" and instead just kids who messed up, is the day i find peace. until then, people need to be consistent and either forgive them both for the dnd thing (because we know for a fact they didn't notice they were making will genuinely upset, or they would've stopped), or remain angry with both mike and lucas for it because the two of them were doing the same things.

(what was said in the rain fight is a different situation. i'm merely talking about how people like to bring up the dnd part and pretend like only mike was being a dick about it when lucas was no better.)

i meeeean, it's kinda true, but also we don't stand for lucas sinclair slander in this house

mike always gets treated like he murdered someone over the tiniest thing, and people get more up in arms about it in this situation because of byler i guess

but in season 3 lucas was being such a good friend. trying to balance supporting mike after a break up (because lucas was just responding to mike's signals of wanting to keep the straight boy mask up) with not excluding will is really hard when the subject matter kind of automatically excludes him (trust me, i'm aroace and i've sat through enough boring conversations about boys that i categorically can't engage in to know the feeling)

this is also probably the one situation where mike being the leader had a negative outcome. he takes the lead and lucas follows it, because that's how the party works, and for the most part that means being kind of mean to will until they realise it's actually hurting his feelings, at which point mike immediately tries to do damage control, insisting that they're interested and want to keep playing (even though they don't), and prompts lucas (my sweet summer child, but that boy can't lie to save his life) to kind of unconvincingly go along with it, similar to how he went along with the lie about mike's nana to the girls

i think sometimes there's just too much complexity in mike's character for people to wrap their heads around and sympathise with him

starting a fight with a homophobe who shit-talked will -> simple, easy to understand, agreeable love interest behaviour

saying something mean to will that's clearly projection -> messy, complex, incomprehensible, burn the witch

people also overlook the projection in the lack of a (heard) apology (because they both biked across town in a downpour to apologise to will, but i guess that's not worth anything), because he'd have to explain why he said that and that it's not actually about will, and he's clearly not ready for that yet. just look at his attempt to explain himself in his apology to el. it's too soon

mike's not allowed to have his own struggles with his queerness. he's not allowed to be an individual. he's just will's boyfriend, and that's it

[dgalerab]

alright here's my thoughts on how you'd fix stranger things (starting at s3 bc my stance was always that i could deal with how s3 did s2 dirty if it was building up to something properly in s4 and haha. hahaha. hahahaha. ahahahahahaahaha.)

mostly in vague terms of character arcs bc i'm still niggling at the idea of writing some screenplays for alternate episodes as a writing exercise

max vs mike: honestly the max/mike as foils aspect was GALAXY BRAINED and UNDERUTILIZED but it should have been mike's hypervigilance vs max's rebellion. *me dry heaving with the urge to not go on a rant about how the duffer bros see anyone with a gf as Normal and this blinds them to the traumatic elements that--*

mike should have been, honestly, on the same side as hopper. like, he's an angsty pre-teen so he won't ADMIT that he's on hopper's side but i think his friction with the party should have been that he's constantly overthinking where el can go without being noticed. you could still have the hormonal teens aspect with some grumpiness vs hopper but i think the overall aspect should have been that mike and hopper are very similarly overly protective

meanwhile max is going through it at home with extremely overbearing patriarchal figures. setting up for her grief arc in season 3, we really should have seen how billy is being abused, how he hands it down to max (by being biting with her from a safe distance since she laid down the law) and how she then struggles not to hand that down to lucas (also she should have had another moment where she again threatens billy away from lucas, showcasing the fact that she's as protective as mike is, despite her quarreling with lucas). so coming off this oppressive environment, she pushes to get el into freedom, being a little bit reckless, bc honestly who's gonna know? wound up with teenage overconfidence for taking on billy + a little bit of a self harm undertone because of her frustration with herself for inadvertent curtness with lucas bc of her struggles at home

the nancy/jonathan subplot is pretty good, but honestly? i think both of their sides should have been legitimized. keep and possibly even amplify all the moments with karen and nancy and the very serious fact that nancy is the victim of misogyny, but also give the byers more money troubles!! give jonathan and joyce moments where they're struggling financially! give joyce struggling to find work bc everything is shutting down because of the mall!! *slams fists on tables* lean into the horror of the mall!! the mall devours!!! the mall is the flesh monster, devouring all!!!!

ANYWAY

shut the absolute fuck up with making hopper unlikable so he can be redeemed by *checks notes* being tortured in a russian prison. fucking christian-ass hellsinner nonsense. give me hopper floundering trying to give joyce a sense of safety. taking her seriously but not knowing how to help. knowing she's thinking of moving away for money and trauma reasons. being scared to ask her to stay. being scared to offer to protect her. and honestly, i think he should have moved to cali with them, purely bc joyce felt safer that way and that's part of his redemption arc is just to trust her

make will less uwu babey boy. boy's been possessed. let him be fucking sloppy and mean. have him fighting not (entirely) against his friends to keep his lost childhood, but also himself. give him a crushes he doesn't want to have. make him be a dick about lucas and mike trying to get el back after the breakup. make mike be a dick back bc will started getting personal. FUCKING INCLUDE LUCAS IN THE ARGUMENT BRO

speaking of lucas has such an underdeveloped character arc in season 3 you'd have to invent it from scratch and tbh i'm still fucking noodling on this one. i feel like it'd have to contrast max and mike's different takes on overprotection. honestly, i feel like lucas' entire thing is the competition for hero with mike in s1, which would be an interesting arc - like, honestly, it would be fun if lucas was getting REALLY into tactics and it's part of the reason he hard commits to fixing mike and el's relationship but he's also weird about d&d now. it would make an interesting shift from the whole "sorry will lol we have GIRLFRIENDS now so we don't have TIME for interests, that's how PUBERTY works bc what 13-14 yos are really known for is being really normal about their interests and only being into girls). like maybe they've been straying from d&d bc mike's overvigilance is leaking into his dming and lucas' tactical special interests are leaking into his rp and dustin's over it and will wants them to just play d&d NORMALLY bc he doesn't want to face that he's not normal anymore and never will be again and this is deeply intertwined with the horror of puberty and queerness and trauma

i like the scoops troop dynamic but i think they shouldn't have been so disconnected from the party. i think there should have been this chaos with mike and max's war of the different flavors of the same person and lucas' Operation Get My Bf and Gf to Agree campaign and meanwhile dustin is like "so anyway there's a russian base underground" and they're like "DUSTING THERE'S NOT A RUSSIAN BASE UNDER THE MALL"

i don't care about alexei get rid of him

honestly i don't care if this is my get babygirl steve a boyfriend agenda, i think eddie should have been introduced in s3 as a direct foil to billy and a queer puberty parallel for will. i'm too winded from my other thoughts to elaborate but i'm right

karen should have divorced ted. instead of being like "what am i doing nearly fucking a teenager i have a family" she should have been like "what am i doing nearly fucking a teenager i gotta GET OUT OF THIS FUCKING MARRIAGE"

anyway tbc i need a breather before i deal with season 4

[kitkatt0430]

So, my brain going off in random directions again. This time with Supergirl and the not particularly well handled Kara/Mon-el romance arc again.

And.

I think I'm on to something about how that ship could have been fixed to work better.

So, they don't hook up in S2. Mon-El has to unlearn bad behaviors in regards to misogyny and Kara has to unlearn her childhood prejudices about Daxamites. It's not easy for either one of them and they both screw up. Kara has to realize she's in the wrong about things and make those up to Mon-el, so it's not just Mon-El being shown to make apologies, grow, and change. They become friends by the end of S2 and have been demonstrated to have made each other better people for having forged that friendship.

Then, to avoid Mon-El having to leave the show, instead of his mom killing his dad and the atmosphere of Earth getting seeded with lead (there is a reason we don't want lead in our water!!! it's still dangerous to humans!!!), Mon-El and Kara save his dad, imprison his mother, and the Daxamites leave to go establish a new homeworld somewhere relatively nearish but not already populated by another species. Maybe leave behind a ship for Mon-el so he can join them later if he wishes, but ultimately his dad respects that Mon-el isn't ready to rejoin his people yet.

If there is to be any ship-teasing between Kara and Mon-el in this modified S2 then it doesn't happen until the big finale with the fight against Mon-El's mother. And both of them are taken aback by the realization there's sparkage there.

S3 is where the ship teasing would begin in earnest and culminating in the two of them getting together at mid-season. Having established a hard-won friendship, showing they're both able to bring out the best in each other without needing romantic motivation first, and giving Mon-El some better characterization than he got in S2 would have made an S3 romance between them way more believable than their weird on/off/on/but now i must go thing that we got in S2. And by bumping Kara/Mon-El down a season, that'd give Kara/James time to actually do their relationship justice before having them mutually break up to stay friends instead.

It'd also be interesting for Argo City to have eventually joined the Daxamite colony once it was revealed that Kara's mom was alive after all. It would have made for some fun background tension and even plots taking place entirely off Earth where Kara and Mon-El have to deal with the tension between the peoples of Krypton and Daxam trying to cohabit the same world. Delve into some of the backstory between both peoples - was Daxam originally a colony of Krypton that struck independence? That would certainly make for an interesting level of nuance in the struggle for creating a fair form of leadership for their now joint colony. Especially when the World Killer thing starts happening - if that was a cult that spanned both Krypton and Daxam but at first appears to be just a Kryptonian thing?

Give me the intrigue. :D

Anyway, canon Kara/Mon-El got strangled by the red string so badly, they never really had a chance to develop any real on screen chemistry. (Not helped by Kara and Lena making heart eyes at each other every chance they got.) But the ship could have been really interesting if it had been given a chance to really breathe and develop more naturally.

[katboykirby]

Okay, so! It's late and I should've been asleep hours ago so I probably won't be writing a fully in-depth/detailed response, but I can offer a little bit of perspective from the writing side of things (as someone with experience in the industry, who's worked on several mobage games)

So, a big part of the plot/story aspect is due to OM being a live service mobage. By the inherent nature of the genre, the story must always be able to continue going (ie: the story can never "end" because then the game itself would end)

This means that the writers will always be limited in how much they are allowed to do, because the story must still be able to continue after the current Lesson/Season/whatever. No matter how big or crazy you want to make the plot in S3, you still have to reel it back in by the end so that S4 can still happen. Status Quo is hugely important for this style of game. Making significant, permanent changes means having to commit to those changes and not revert back, which is risky from a development perspective (if players don't like the change, they may drop the game) but also means that all of your writers are now railroaded into writing within the bounds that this new permanent change has established. It's not that this is impossible, but it's common for management and executives to discourage it.

This is also the reason why it feels like character development never truly "sticks" even though we see the boys learning the same lessons over and over. No matter how many times Levi has a big moment where he learns to be more assertive and believe in himself, he'll be back to his usual characterisation next season. Ditto for Satan's relationship with Lucifer. Lucifer himself will re-learn not to keep secrets from his brothers or take the burden of responsibility alone, over and over again.

If a character is allowed to have an actual conclusion to their personal arc, then that means that their growth is now over. It's satisfying for players because we get to see them struggle, learn, grow, and have an actual conclusion. But the problem is...then what? The story itself still has to continue. And if a character's arc is "over" then that leaves them with much less for the writers to do as the story continues.

Stories need conflict, and the same is true of characters. They need to struggle, they need to learn and grow, otherwise they would be boring. If Satan never struggled with his anger issues or his relationship with Lucifer again after S2, then he would have very little to do in every following Season of the story. All of his personal growth is concluded, so what would there be to focus on? Sure, new struggles and new character arcs could be introduced, but then you start introducing the same narrative hurdles as mentioned above. You especially don't want to fiddle with the characters TOO much, because you'll risk losing that character's stans if their favourite blorbo is irrecoverably changed in a way they don't like.

With this genre of game, it's much preferred to keep the characters as consistent as possible, because you'll be writing these same characters continuously for many many years. OM itself is about to turn 5 years old, and "if it's not broken, don't fix it" is a big aspect that the writers will have drilled into them.

Speaking of the writers themselves, this is the last point I'll touch on for now. While we don't know absolutely everything about Solmare's inner workings as a company (for good reason) we DO know a few things. Mainly:

OM's writers are often split up into many different smaller teams, and will be working on multiple assignments (Main Story, Pop Quiz event stories, Devilgrams, etc) at the same time

It's not entirely uncommon for Solmare to bring in guest writers from outside of the company

Not all of the writers from 2018-2019 are still working at Solmare, and the staff will change regularly as older employees leave and new staff is hired (just like any other company)

Which all means that at any given time, completely different people could be writing the plot between one Lesson and the next. This is generally good for the writers themselves (since delegating the workload in this way is much better than having individual writers taking on far too much on their own) but it also means we get things like inconsistency with the characters, or continuity errors. Communication and management are much harder when you have a large team working on many different assignments at once. This is even more likely to be the case when a guest writer is brought in from outside, because they will be less familiar with the story and characters. (This is how we ended up with Lucifer's controversial "Lady" lyric in "Arcadia" - the songwriter was not a Solmare employee and not a member of the OM writing team)

This is something that happens with all written media, but the more writers you have working on a project means there will just be more chances for things like this to slip through the cracks.

Anyway, sorry to ramble like crazy on your post (and I'm tired so I'm not even sure if everything I said made sense) but hopefully this was at least interesting for some people to read!

i also think that either obm needs better writers OR if it’s not an issue with the writers themselves, that they should start thinking about where they want the game to go. the story is so… disjointed… and messy. with every season, it just feels like the story deteriorates in quality bc nothing is ever at stake + nothing changes. character development and plot points are easily forgotten in favor of having scenes with characters instead (which like i know that’s the main point of the game but … it all feels… cheap?? idk). nothing ever happens in the main storyline and thats just ?? wack

[wibble-wobbegong]

Do you think Mike was already thinking about the optics of liking girls vs liking boys in s1?

I think with him only being able to think of the Snowball as a romantic activity, that being a publicly romantic thing, was showing that Mike was already thinking about who he should be seen with in that light vs not. He was already liking the idea of maybe preventing any gay rumors starting asap.

What are your thoughts?

i think it’s kinda set up so that mike has to start acknowledging what it means to like boys vs what it means to like girls before s1 because will gets directly bullied for it and we see him get indirectly bullied for it. the thing is, i don’t think he saw anything wrong with the idea of being gay before s1. he always admired special qualities in his friends that made them different from other people which is what they got bullied for. all his friends were outcasts for different reasons, so i don’t think he ever really put much thought into what he might be because he didn’t care

the issue started when el came in and everybody was trying to tell him he was supposed to like her. the nuance of sexuality wasn’t really a thing in the 80’s, so in his 12 year old brain he had been assigned the role of ‘straight’ by everyone around him and he really didn’t have any reason not to believe them. he’d never had a friend who was a girl before, how would he know that what he’s feeling for her isn’t romance (even if there’s nothing he can think of that distinctly makes it romantic, it’s just supposed to be like that. at least, that’s what he tells her before they kiss in s1)

i don’t know if it was a matter of who he should or shouldn’t be seen with. he doesn’t seem to understand the problem with being gay except that bullies make fun of you for it, but they also make fun of dustin’s disability which he thinks is kind of like a superpower. i think he wanted to take her to the snowball because that’s something you do with people you like and apparently mike likes el (even if he doesn’t really understand it, everybody is telling him he does and he has no reason to counter it).

if he hadn’t been introduced to the idea that he was supposed to be straight so early on and he didn’t promise himself to el, we may have never ended up with mike trying to fix himself then way he did in s3. i’m always gonna be a firm believer that mike finally realized his feelings for will when they were in that shed, and he doesn’t really hold his feelings back. he openly admits that will is the best part of his life. mike doing that now would have everyone agreeing it’s a romantic statement, because it is. mike spent that whole season not holding back on his feelings for will, and i honestly think that if el hadn’t come back then byler could’ve happened a lot sooner

idk if i’m saying this well but basically, yes i think he was thinking about liking boys vs liking girls but in the sense that he didn’t really care until he was told he was supposed to like el. he’d been assigned the straight boy and was now having to try and differentiate between his platonic feelings for his friends and family and his feelings for el, which we see him unable to do. i don’t think mike would’ve struggled as much if people hadn’t assigned him to being straight and he didn’t feel trapped both in that image of him and his relationship with el, which he felt like her owed her

[kittenkatbar]

here’s my BIG vol. 2 hot take/prediction/long ass word vomit that is also kinda a character analysis:

i don’t think will is going to be the one (traditionally) vecna’d.. i think it’ll be mike.

will has trauma—that’s obvious. BUT will also has a connection to the upside down that seems to be.. different than we all previously thought. the more you look at how much he’s survived when other people touched by the UD haven’t, the more it starts to look like will might be able to use that as a strength. the mind flayer didn’t want him to die, and i don’t think vecna does either. i think vecna wants will with him, by his side, and i think that’s been getting set up the whole show with will’s connection/survival/being the first one taken to the UD/the UD reflecting that day by being stuck in time. will also has secrets, yeah, but he fully plans on telling mike. we see that with the painting and with the speech he gives on the car. hell, he doesn’t even want to keep el’s secrets/lies for her. kid’s over that shit. he’s putting it off, sure, but he still fully plans on saying SOMETHING to mike, hopefully a confession bc i want byler to be canon so so so bad, but i just do not trust any show not to queerbait anymore lmfao.

MIKE, HOWEVER.. whew. that boy has got some deep-seated, buried secrets that i honestly don’t think he intends to share. he obviously (to me) does not love el in a romantic way (but i fully believe he loves her platonically), as we see with him constantly avoiding saying that he loves her (hell, even the valentine in her little mike shrine says ‘like.’ even the flowers said ‘from.’). he doesn’t want to tell her that he isn’t in love with her and constantly keeps lying to her, and probably himself too.

now, like i said: as a queer person who has seen it too many times, i fear queerbaiting. however, i’m going to throw caution to the wind for a minute. i, personally, also read mike’s character as really struggling with internalized homophobia. i think that the s3 “it’s not my fault you don’t like girls” fight wasn’t just him being frustrated, i think it was him projecting. i think mike can tell by that point that he himself either doesn’t just like girls, or doesn’t like girls in the way he has been told he should. he spends s3 spending time with el in a way that seems like a deflection—pulling her away from everyone so it’s obvious he’s with her, then breaking apart kisses to sing and be silly even though it seems to annoy her. he’s controlling, and to me it reads less as him wanting to control el.. but to control the narrative. can’t possibly be queer if all you do is make out with your girlfriend, right?? he’s frustrated when hopper tells him to put space between them, but he does it. which is weird, because mike obviously has issues with authority figures and very rarely does what anyone tells him. he’s yelled and punched hop before, he’s sassed him constantly.. but.. hop just gave him an out. he can blame not being around el on hop. he can be outwardly frustrated about it, without having to remedy it. el dumps him and he looks a little hurt, acts a little angry, but he doesn’t go talk to her. he doesn’t try to make it better. he goes to the mall with lucas and will to try to buy his way back into her good graces, but he doesn’t put in any real work. at least, not like he always does after he and will fight. when he has the big fight with will later, he goes after him. will is different for mike, but it’s almost like the roles are reversed from what mike thinks they should be. he treats will more like you would (traditionally) treat a love interest, and el more like the best friend. a fight with will? immediately trying to fix it. a fight with el? mike is brooding, but almost acts like it’ll resolve itself, similar to how he was with lucas in season one. the only time he says he loves el, is when he’s panicking. and again, i fully believe he loves her.. platonically. i would also be super torn up and panicking if any of my friends were about to do something that could kill them, and i think when you’re wrapped up in all that emotion it’s easy to mistake it for romantic love. however, even then.. i don’t know that that’s what mike meant.

mike says he loves her and he can’t lose her again, which yeah? of course! she’s important to him! everyone around him took that as romantic.. but i don’t know that he meant it that way? he loves his friends, he doesn’t want to lose them. even taking this out of a byler lens, that has always been the case for mike. he refused to give up on will across the first two seasons, he couldn’t lose him. i don’t think it’s a stretch to say he’d feel that way about anyone in the party, but that doesn’t mean it’s romantic. now for the big but.. he said it. out loud, in front of everyone. he can’t take it back now because walking that back could 1. make him look “suspicious” and cast doubt on everything he’s been doing up until now with el 2. hurt el, who he does care about. he never says it again. later, when she says it to him and kisses him, he stands there looking like a lost kid at disney who just rode dumbo 5 times, puked from too much cotton candy, then found out it’s not the most magical place on earth. so, i while i think mike meant it when he said he loved el, i think he meant it platonically.. which is why he can’t say it now, in a romantic context. he smiles like the fucking sun when will says he won’t join another party, but he can’t show that same emotion when his girlfriend kisses him and declares her love? seems like mike is just full of secrets, even before s4.

so, season four. when we hear el’s letter being read out, there’s a few key things to note, imo.

mike has never thought critically about the obvious lies el is telling him. he knows el. he knows el is weird, which is fine!! the whole party is weird! but weird kids don’t usually become popular. i mean, it can happen.. for instance, i wasn’t popular, but i sure as hell had friends in every group in high school and hopped lunch table to lunch table, but that was the 2010s and this is the 1980s, where groups were a bit more defined.. “forced conformity,” if you will. but mike doesn’t bat a lash at her fitting in perfectly? at being good at math suddenly when she’s literally never been properly educated? at being perfectly fine when they all are thinking that hopper is dead? that’s off. that’s so far off for mike, the kid that could tell will wasn’t okay by a flinch/facial expression. i think mike was being willfully ignorant. it’s easier to pretend everything’s okay—that el isn’t lying, that they love each other, that mike isn’t facing some internal turmoil. status quo, holding up the views of what his reaganite parents and the general public in the 80s expect of him. pushing all of his “otherness” into playing DnD, actively fighting to keep the deeper issues out of sight and out of mind. willful ignorance to keep himself safer, a very common tactic for a lot of queer kids.

it seems to me, however, that what mike does pay attention to is what el writes about will. will whose drawings are still up on his wall, will who he hasn’t called or written to despite giving him the biggest mike wheeler smile before he left. i think he doesn’t write or talk to will for a couple reasons. mike probably thinks if he doesn’t talk to will, he can get over whatever these feelings are he has. he doesn’t want to feel that way and he doesn’t want to call it what it is, so the best way to get over it is distance. ignore it, it’ll resolve itself—like when he fought with el. he’s trying to push a friendship lens onto feelings he knows are at least a little bit more than platonic. maybe he also is afraid that if he does talk to will, he might say or do something wrong. mike isn’t known for being the most emotionally intelligent, but he’s always been far more in tune with will than anyone else.. what if he oversteps? but he still gets news about will, i highly doubt that’s the first letter where el has mentioned her brother. i’d even take a guess that mike has asked after him a handful of times, via el. which brings me to el talking about the painting, about there being “a girl” will might like. i don’t think el had even given a thought to will being queer (she has her own shit going on and the only people who have ever insinuated it were mouthbreathers, so why would she?), but also i highly doubt she’s seen him around with girls if will’s response during the presentation means anything. which to me, that means he’s been private/shy/flustered about the painting enough that el assumed he had a crush.. and it’s the 80s and el doesn’t think he’s queer, so must be a girl, right?

but then.. will is at the airport. and mike doesn’t hug him. and will has the painting. i’ve posted about this already, but i’m going to go a little more in depth here. i don’t think mike knows he has a crush on will. i think he knows he feels something, it’s different and it’s more than friendship. it scares him. he distanced himself because of that. so: no hug. because a hug is giving in, is feeding that feeling that he thinks he shouldn’t have. he sees what is obviously a painting in will’s hand. i don’t think he even slightly makes the connection that it’s for him, because mike is often a ‘forest through the trees’ kinda guy. he asks about it, maybe somewhere deep inside, hoping it’s for him.. but will was just weirdly received with a back slap and so: will doesn’t give it to him, he brushes mike off. mike looks detached during all of this, like he can’t allow himself to feel happy to see will or confused that he brought the painting or sad that it’s not actually for him (even though it obviously is). because if he feels those things, then.. well.. they’re real. so he’s disappointed, but detached. convincing himself he doesn’t have any different feelings for will, that the idea of the painting being for a girl doesn’t make him feel a little bitter. because if he’s bitter then he’d have to figure out why, and he just can’t let himself do that. so everything gets pushed away to the back of his mind, but he still acts weird. because even if mike doesn’t know or acknowledge it yet, he’s still a little hurt in this moment.

then we’re at the rink, and el’s been caught in her lies. when will tells mike, his immediate reaction is to lash out and then.. then he calms down a bit. he’s worried for el, of course, but will seems more worried than he is. his sister is in trouble, so that checks out.. but mike seems not as concerned as i’d expect? i think this is like when hop made him lie about nana.. will just took some of this huge weight off of mikes shoulders. now it’s not on mike for willfully ignoring el’s lies to keep the façade going now, it’s on el for lying. el is now the deceitful one, it’s not mike lying to himself—its el lying to mike. a bit later, when he and will fight, i think it’s half projection and half mike feeling hurt. he ignored the fact that el’s story didn’t make sense.. and el got hurt. i mean mostly emotionally but i roller skate and the way she fell in the rink would fucking HURT. he’s telling will that they’re friends, stressing the word like he’s trying to convince himself that’s all he feels. he’s angry, he’s panicking, he’s lashing out. classic mike, and it almost always feels like a defection when he does it. he asks why it’s his fault, when will never tried either—which is valid to an extent. maybe not a sound argument, because mike tried with el (whether or not that was part of suppressing his feelings for will and lack of feelings for el), but still a valid one. and honestly? i think if will had tried.. mike would’ve folded immediately. after this fight, after they’re back and he and el fight.. he goes to will immediately. he folds. he needs will, especially when he doesn’t have el to distract him from how much.

we get the “you didn’t have to/you never say it” parallel. we get the “team” the “best friends” conversation after el is gone. it’s harder for mike to hide his feelings when he doesn’t have el to project them onto. he cares about el, and so does will—immensely. they want to save her because they love her (in a non-romantic sense). but this conversation isn’t about el, this conversation is about them. they’re setting things in motion to rescue el, but they’re talking about their relationship, they’re reconnecting. will grabs the painting, which shows intent to give it to mike, to confess. but mike is still pushing the friends narrative, even if he’s letting himself fold a little with the “best friends” and the soft glances and the admittance that will is different to him than everyone else. that he missed him. that he needs him.

the car scene proves exactly how much mike needs will. mike needs will to tell him that it’s okay to tell el that he doesn’t love her romantically, even if that’s not what will is actually saying (from will’s perspective). will is obviously gearing up to tell mike he has feelings for him, starting to lay the groundwork to soften what i think will assumes will be a big blow to their friendship. but will is brave and will is kind and will is so full of love for his best friend, so he’s going to tell him anyway. friends don’t lie. i don’t think will even sees this as a lie, maybe not even fully a secret at this point because he is planning to tell mike.. he just has to do it. but mike? mike is full of secrets. he takes will’s speech as a go-ahead to tell el that he doesn’t love her like that, but that it’s okay. he needed will to tell him that it’s okay to not be in love with el, in love with a girl. but he’s still caught in a tangled web of lies that he made for himself, and i think mike is terrified of pulling one string in case it all unravels. mike is good at secrets, he has been since he hid el in his basement. but secrets fester, especially when you have no intention of letting them out.

SO: mike has fought monsters, has trauma, has watched people die. mike has always come back to will, has used will as his anchor. as long as will is okay, he’s okay. but mike is harboring secrets, letting them rot inside him. he doesn’t want to be queer, he doesn’t want to be “othered” in a way that might make him lose his family, his friends, possibly even will—his anchor to feeling okay. so he bottles up everything to try to control the narrative, but he’s grasping at smoke because he’s not in control. he’s never been. the upside down has had a chokehold on all of the kids for years and right now, vecna is driving the bus. the new trailer proves that with will’s line: “he won’t stop.” but as we know, will was never explicitly on the kill list. he’s been taken and possessed and had a fucking awful run, but he said it himself: not him—everyone else. the upside down wants will, whether that’s the mindflayer or vecna, or if the whole plane is a big sentient.. thing.

i think will is going to be taken by vecna (i also think vecna may have been involved in taking him in the first season, as well but that’s a different can of worms), but i don’t think he’s going to be actually vecna’d. i think it’s mike. i think everything i’ve laid out here has been building up inside of mike for years (and i didn’t even go into how much he was ruined in s1 trying to get will back, or how he dropped everything when will wasn’t okay in s2 and stayed by him the whole time).

the kid’s got a lot more than just skeletons and monsters in his closet, and i think it’s going to get him into hot water. mike is called “frog face” by bullies, we’ve all seen the little frog plush—and i can’t help but thinking about that anecdote about a frog in a pot. if the heat is gradually turned up, the frog won’t notice it’s being boiled alive.

i think we’ve had four seasons of michael wheeler sitting in a pot—and the heat has been slowing increasing. vecna is about to boil mike alive.