#Sir pentious critique

[crooked-wasteland]

Sir Pentious and the Importance of Narrative Structure

There are some aspects of Hazbin Hotel that leave me genuinely blind-sided. Like standing on the sidewalk when you suddenly witness a catastrophic car crash only for someone on the other side of the road to get distracted from rubbernecking and cause a second collision . That is the only way I can describe the feeling I get whenever I think about how the series handled Sir Pentious.

I have never seen a show fumble such a big plot point, not once, but twice and in the same exact way. First in the episode where the characters are engaging in “trust exercises”; the narrative entirely neglects the cast of Husk, Pentious, Angel, and Nifty for a very rudimentary plot that feels straight out of season one Steven Universe for Vaggie and Charlie. Instead it skips to them returning to the roof as a group and Angel Dust carrying Pentious and that is the end of the series attempting to show this bond until the second to last episode. Which also just does nothing with the first opportunity to watch that assumed relationship actually come together.

We never saw them actually help each other during the Turf War, but there was an opportunity that would have worked even with zero changes to the rest of the series to rectify that fact and it would have only cost at most 90 seconds of screen time:

Just have these characters talk to each other and treat it like it means something.

And it’s not hard to figure the reasoning of the writers was to have the reveal that the side characters didn’t leave be the big cherry on top this episode’s happily ever after. Instead, it's a completely forgotten plot point that only keeps the audience from ever believing these characters cared about each other enough to mourn one of them being killed off in the most abrupt way.

Sir Pentious’ death was pathetic. The heroic buildup to him buying the others time is undercut by his actual uselessness. And that compounds the problem with the fact his death is an intentional joke, but simultaneously supposed to be an impactful character moment? That isn’t how you get an audience to laugh while crying.

The art of achieving that dram-ody effect is fundamentally based on two grounded principles: familiarity to the character and pacing. Building up to sadness is a process, and trying to achieve something as primal as sadness requires some surprisingly complicated setup. In an undeveloped prefrontal cortex, the brain is still hardwired to mirror as a form of empathy. It’s why so many young fans can say without irony that Pentious dying is “Sad”, because they are caught off guard by his sudden passing to then be inundated with the named characters crying and being sad. They are sad because the characters are sad, but there was no one crying for Pentious like the characters are, not without a psychologically concerning degree of parasocial attachment. It’s “Sad” as in its “disappointing”, but the animators intentionally attempt to highjack the wave of disappointment to convince a child audience that they are feeling a different kind of grief.

And it didn’t need to be anything special, even a cookie cutter “Power of friendship” scene would have still fixed that gap enough to at least allow for a course correction later on and presenting the characters as more fleshed out. If time constraints were really that large of an issue, setting yourself up to succeed by laying the foundation to fix these narrative gaps is the only way to rectify it. Especially with announcing an already pre-approved second season that the crew would have been parallel planning for and thus had knowledge on where to save certain aspects for later.

To be frank, this is why people remember Helluva Boss’ first season so favorably, but it ultimately suffered the opposite issue. Season 1 of HB had a better grasp of setting up plot points early and giving themselves enough space to keep people theorizing and allowing them the opportunity to adapt the characters and narrative dynamically. The whole allure of the series originally was anticipating the payoff for these “mysteries”. It is just that the series had no intention of utilizing those mysteries for any meaningful narrative and quickly killed them off to focus on a predictable and uninteresting ship.

And I am sorry to snatch those rose-tinted glasses, but the first season wasn’t good, we just had clear narrative gaps that felt intentional and anticipated a story/arc/effort where there was no intention behind the scenes to really dedicate any resources to it. And alternatively HH is being handled far less skillfully from the jump, so it attracts the audience that will dedicate themselves to it (children) without any expectations in regards to quality.

[dnpanimationstudioclone]

Will we get to see Sir Pentious's backstory too? I want to know what his backstory look like in your rewrite

Oh yeah! I def got plans with Sir P along for the rest of the gang. CW discussion of child death, experimentation of sorts,(general spoilers S2, brief discussion of what was shown during that leak phase)

So far, the main concept idea I have for My Sir P was that he was an aspiring inventor. Filled with grand ideas and aspirations but constantly dismissed, overlooked by others and for most of his life, spent stuck doing not exactly fulfilling maintenance/repair jobs just to make a living. before finally getting the chance, becoming involved in some shady unethical medical company using poor sick kids, to test medical devices on. ⛑️⚕️ One of those devices included a 🐍snake venom extractor🐍. Big thing is….they often made the problems they tried to treat but….often weren’t able to treat them….They weren’t exactly doing well to begin with and their families couldn’t afford to get better help and were desperate to just have a general living…they had no idea what the place was fully doing with their kids💔

While he wasn’t getting them….”prepared “ himself, he was still aware of what was going on but with his position(especially cause of his roots) aswell as not wanting to lose his job and best chance to become an inventor….didnt do anything and just kept trying to make something that work. He told himself it would all be worth it, for society, the greater food, that it wouldn’t be for nothing, that they wouldn’t….

Something he’d do atleast for the kids out of kindness(and guilt) was invent some toys they could play with. They really liked them…and him💔 🧸

Brainstormed stuff on HTH @hotter-than-hell-rewrite server and inspired by @stillwaitin76 MASH inspiration stuff, reminded me of that whole “Hawkeye and the chicken situation”. Sir P at first says he was having his inventions being tested on baby mice or baby chicks. Baxter-I mean, kinda a bummer about those baby animals but it’s not like companies now a days don’t practice animal testing themselves. The medical field did all sorts of things back then that’d be considered far more unethical today. It’s a pretty gray situation. And for what it’s worth, wasn’t for something unnecessary, u were testing out important medical items that could help people. I don’t see how that would condemn you to here.

Sir P-But there could’ve been a better way. We could’ve gotten some adults atleast. They were so young and full of life and their own dreams, they trusted me, to help them and-

Baxter-Hang on how would baby animals understand all-…they weren’t mice or chicks were they?

Oh! And the Egg Bois…Hell’s clever way to remind him of his sins. Always being followed by small, fragile lifeforms that put their full trust in you only to often get hurt or even worse for your projects….

I def want his sin to be involved with his inventions or atleast ambitions causing harm in some way. I feel like that would fit into his character and what he was doing in Hell more in my opinion. How he was in the show, alive and his OG inaction feels really different from the Sir P we were watching and what he was doing to really feel connected in my opinion. And with all the other stuff that was happening, there wasn’t really much foreshadowing shown of his past to begin with before his redemption which I feel like was a missed opportunity for his arc. TW, child death, ptsd/trauma.

What do u think? Any ideas you have for Sir P and his backstory? What do u think of his OG one? I’d love to know 💖

[pedanticat]

Oh for Pete sake! Why is stuff like this never explained IN THE SHOW?!?!

[autumnteawithfriends]

I don’t know if this me sounding nitpicky but I really wish Vivziepop gave Pentious a more broader/sturdier figure.

Like, Viv is really trying to tell us that an inventor who lived and died in Victorian Era London and who likely built GIANT DEATH MACHINES, looks like copy and pasted Vivziepop twink #2683728373? I’m not buying it.

And to also add to the “making death machines” point, making machines in general, both back then and now, is extremely GRUELING and takes a ton of effort and strength to do. This art is a good example

(Artist: GabendSelarom)

Despite this picture being a print more than anything else, this is a perfect example of what I think he should’ve looked like in the series proper. Pentious having a more broader figure makes sense to me because in both life and death, he’s likely spending HOURS making and forging all of his machinery.

This is all really, if you want to give your opinion, comment or reblog below.

[66kenobi66]

In my opinion Stella had the most missed potential but my fav of these characters is Octavia.

[almacambiondaughterofsaleos]

The First Two Seasons Should Have Been About Collecting As Many Guests To Prove The Hotel Could Work

Seriously, the hotel guests could have been characters developed from the early concepts including Mimzy, Baxter, Crymini, and even Villa. Sir Pentious and Cherri Bomb joined but it was muddled down by squishing in the heaven plot line that shouldn't have been there when we are not yet establishing characters. Seriously, by getting as much guests as possible you could work towards developing side characters we can come to enjoy and attach ourselves. They don't have to be the center of every episode but we can see them converse among the main cast and their fellow patrons so we can feel the hotel is thriving and might have a chance. Also we can have different characters try out the hotel for different motives than redemption like Mimzy using Al to hide her from loan sharks and she obliges. Cherri Bomb joining to be near to Angel Dust and gradually dropping her more toxic enabling traits to become a better person for his sake.

Seriously, there was so much potential in patron hunting yet it was thrown away to get too fast to the grand stuff. That would mean leave Lucifer for season three so that the heaven half can be used for later but be in the lingering background. I could see each patron coming in and having their own song that tells about themselves and their motives in life. I also would loved it to show how they got into hell and none of that I am a victim of society bs, but genuine things they did in life that condemned them and then realize over the series they need to improve themselves to become better people.

I am thinking they should make Villa a hellhound hellborn who joins because she could be a worker for Velvette and wants to get away from her. I think it could open the idea of Charlie also looking out for hellborns and could double the hotel as a refuge. And to emphasize the Crymini is a hyena and a sinner.

[blackboxwarriorsbiggestfan]

Viv once liked a tweet where a fan said the scene where Sir Pentious gets dragged to be sa’d as “the funniest joke in the series”, Dollcreep whom was her friend that then she got beef in the past, once stated that they had to change their looks to avoid looking like Sir Pentious since Sir Pentious could be a caricature based on them and noticeably Sir Pentious is the character that gets treated like shit in hazbin hotel

Yeah, I sadly read about the Dollcreep drama. Honestly though, making a friend into a character you keep torturing, just because you got into a fight?

Get a damn life, Viv.

[gingebreadbeetle]

I risk making a hot take as someone who actually likes sir Pentious’s character.

MAN THEY WASTED HIS POTENTIAL!!! I really wished he earned that integrity like OP says he has. I wish they actually showed him doing bad things so his redemption felt earned.

We don’t even know why he’s in hell and he sort of acts like the pathetic loser villian trope. Don’t get me wrong, I’m eating it up, but I’m just saying some meat on the bones would be sososo good.

I really wish they did more with this or not include it at all because I mourn the waste potential of this show.

[mccloudyyy]

I really wish Hazbin Hotel focused on the hotel

Like the whole plot was supposed to revolve around sinners getting redeemed through the hotel and yet we don't see that?? It sucks because I feel like it can be a super interesting concept!! Like I would love to see the actual improvement of the characters like Angel and Sir Pentious.

Sir Pentious got redeemed but we never see the inbetween parts yk? Same goes for Angel cuz he seemed like he was doing better in the last couple of eps but we don't see the in-between which is so frustrating.

Which kinda brings me to another point, the one time where we do see the actual redemption activities it's just a bunch of summer camp stuff?? 😭 like girl they are in hell I don't think trust falls are the answer to getting into heaven. While I'm not 100% sure what they could have done (although I will think of a few ideas!) literally anything else would have been better!

[ms-cartoon]

This pairing was FORCED AS HELL!

Where was the chemistry?? The first time we see them interact, all we saw was RED!! They were literally trying to kill each other! Where did this sudden crush on Cherri come from? And the only time she reciprocated was when she liked of the idea of him having two d!cks and he also yanked her out of nowhere to kiss her.

Not to mention he's old enough to be her uncle??? I'm sorry, I know when you're an adult, the whole age-gap romance doesn't matter, but . . . it still doesn't seem right, especially in their case.

[pleasantspark]

Leak Edit: Pendleton!

I did a minor edit.

[chronicbeans]

So, I've been looking for info on Sir Pentious's backstory for my rewrite. You, know, because although a lot of my rewrite probably has very different backstories, I still want to at least try to make them connected to the canon in some way.

I can't find anything very substantial on Sir Pentious, besides him dying Victorian Era. Like, NOTHING on his background? I can't really work with it simply because his story would probably end up being very similar to some other characters I'm planning, so don't be surprised if my version is extremely different background wise. I'm going to try to keep his personality intact, though, to make up for it. I changed Angel Dust pretty wildly mostly due to not necessarily knowing how I'd rewrite something like Episode 4, but I was expecting to be able to find ANYTHING on Sir Pentious and only tweak him a little since I thought he was pretty okay for what he was. Now that I know I can't and a lot of the stuff I'm finding is either about his current life or headcanons, I am just going to rewrite his entire backstory and keep his current personality.

For now, I have the idea of making him be a sinner from Ancient China, with his form being based off of a feiyi from Chinese mythology. Then, when he redeems himself, his form will change to fit a Chinese dragon as a reference to how snakes are sometimes called "little dragon" in Chinese culture. As for any backstory outside of that, I am thinking about him being the first person to try to invent the first "true" fireworks (read: gunpowder as the first step to his invention) using charcoal, potassium nitrate, and sulfur. However, he was beaten to the punch by someone else who did so trying to find the secret to eternal life, and in his jealousy he attempted to use the gunpowder to kill the person who accidentally discovered it, only to set himself on fire by accident.

[starrclown]

Random things in my Hazbin Hotel rewrite that I added for lore, character, or because I think it's cool

(I might do this for my Helluva Boss rewrite because these take up alot of brain space and I wanna infodump so Tumblr is my bitc-)

Triggerwarning: Talks of death, suicide, murder, other nasty stuff.

Angel has a daughter named Isabella. (This is Angel Dust. I took the Dust out of his name because in my rewrite Angel is ashamed of his drug addiction. I wanna clarify incase someone gets confused.)

Angel and Husk were born in the same year, 1891. Angel died at 56 while Husk died at 86.

Husk and Valerie (Vaggie)are probably the most innocent at the Hotel.

Angel, Alastor, and Nifty have all killed people. Nifty has only killed one person, her husband.

Both Angel and Nifty were married when they were alive.

Sir Pentious is now a girl. She is now Madame Pentious.

Husk is Transgender.

Husk has a Russian background. He also knows Russian.

Angel and his family are not from America. His family are immigrants from Italy. They came to America when he was about 7.

Alastor is black. He's not mixed anymore.

Cherrie is almost deaf. She can hear somewhat but she is almost excessively deaf from being around explosions all her life.

Angel is blind in his right eye. Things... happened to it.

Since Cherrie is hard hearing and Angel has only one eye, they help each other alot. Angel learned sign language to talk to Cherrie if she's having a hard hearing day. Cherrie usually walks around with Angel if he's in a unfamiliar area.

Both Alastor and Angel are overlords. (I'm gonna have to work out what makes a overlord a overlord )

Charlie is a doll. Litteraly. Her parents made her with demonic magic. (More like a puppet but you get it.)

Charlie has a bad relationship with Lucifer. Lilith on the other hand is a loving an attentive mother.

Valerie even though she doesn't look like it, is very good with certain weapons. Not good with hands on though.

Mimzy and Angel are good friends.

Vox and Velvette don't like Valentino. They stick it out with him because their territories are objectively smaller than Valentinos. They are both weaker than Valentino.

Vox and Valerie have the biggest inferiority complex out if the main cast.

Tom Trench has had a crush on Katie Killjoy for about 20 years now. Katie is aware of it. She toys him along all the time.

Valerie can't speak.

Vox and Angel have a brother like relationship. Velvette shares the same thing with Angel. Only Velvette likes it.

Nifty was the youngest to die. She's 18.

Husk was the oldest to die.

Considering Nifty died so young she often can revert to a teenage life mindset. When someone (Mostly Angel) treats her like a child because that's what she is, she gets upset. Really upset. She doesn't understand why everyone treats her diffrently.

Nifty also tries to argue that she's grown up because she not only had a husband, she has to be bad like a adult because she's in hell.

Alastor shows blantent favoritism when it comes to the treatment of Husk and Nifty. (Hint: Husk ain't the favorite.)

Alastor is actually pretty nice. Despite how evil his is he is genuinely kind to most people. He was raised to be a gentlemen so he never really let that go as a adult.

When you die, after a significant amount of time, you can recive objects from your human life. There is two ways you can obtain objects from your human life. You either have it on you when you die or someone gives it to you as you die. Like being buried with a object or a object being set on your grave. This is how Angel has some memories of his family, someone set a scrap book on his grave. He has his necklace cause he was wearing it when he died.

Angel killed himself. He intentionally overdosed.

Charlie has biased when it comes to sinners. She's unaware of it but it's there. Charlie shows favoritism to younger sinners and to sinners who died from unnatural causes or to wronged sinners. This is demonstrated in the main cast. Charlie treats Nifty, Valerie, and Alastor better than Angel and Husk. She doesn't treat them hostility by any means but she gives alot more leeway to those three then Angel and Husk. She treats Angel objectively worse. If something bad happens and Angel has a part in it, then Angel will most likely take blame. She treats them worse for diffrent reasons. Angel because he killed himself and Husk because of how long he lived.

While Charlie doesn't like killing sinners, she will if pushed far enough.

Angel hides what he actually looks like. He didn't come down to hell looking as he does currently.

Valerie will do almost anything to get validation. Her self hatred is that big.

I have more but this is getting long.

Ask questions if you want. If your curious.

- ⭐️StarClown⭐️

[art-tea-chill]

Sir Pentious redesign I've made. I love him and I hate how Vivziepop treated him in the series.

Design notes under the cut + rewrite

I gave him a broader/sturdier figure to fit his inventor persona more, more info on this post made on my main blog @autumnteawithfriends

Changed his pink to red, I thought it would make him look more intimidating

Made his outfit more Victorian Age accurate

Added more eyes (explained in the lore segment)

Honestly, I didn't want to change much because Sir Pentious to me has one of the better designs to me despite the flaws.

Now time for some rewrite lore

His real name was Sir Arthur Price when alive

He was born on December 1st 1853 and died in 1890, making him 37.

Class 3 Sinner, his sins were Wrath, Envy, and Pride

Is an inventor/machinist who had plans on advancing machines in a way nobody would see coming when alive, he was actively and maliciously jealous of anyone he deemed a rival.

He was not very well liked when alive, not at all. which did not help with his ambitions with wanting to advance the field of machinery.

Arthur went bankrupt one day due to lacking the funds to maintain his machines, meaning he had to marry an aristocrat for money.

He married Marielle Farfalle (OC) on December 13, 1879. Their marriage was neutral at first until Mari discovered his villainy and was ecstatic to learn this. After that, they started to genuinely fall in love.

Arthur snapped the day he tried to launch his first invention to the public. He showcased it only for the public to be interested in his rivals inventions.

He plotted to kill his rivals along with the help of his wife, while they succeeded in doing so. Both of them were ratted out by a house servant who discovered their plans.

Died by electric chair alongside his wife on November 20th 1890

Has hypnosis powers and a deadly poisonous bite, the poison from his bite can immobilize sinners depending on how much poison comes out of his fangs (The poison can last from a day to a few weeks)

I made him a mix between his pilot and show counterparts - A hammy, but dangerous and somewhat competent supervillain sinner who can be caring and affectionate to his loved ones (Mari and the Egg Boiz.)

He's a snake in Hell with tons of eyes because of two reasons. He hated snakes when alive, and he had scopophobia when alive because of the glares he received by bystanders and his rivals alike. Mari helped him grow out of it.

He speaks very fancifully to reference the Victorian age, he also doesn't swear too much aside from referring to Angel and Cherri as whores spitefully

He only keeps up with Technology and Music in Hell, he couldn't care about anything else.

The reason he's not in Purgatory is because he achieved one of his goals in life, which was getting rid of his rivals.

That's all, feel free to give your opinion on the redesign.

[verboselocket38]

TW: SA and R*pe

Ok so I havent watch Hazbin on Prime recently and will probably watch it when its fully released. But dear God I have seen a full clip of the recent episode when Sir Pentious gets pulled in the sex room by the club screaming.....

Like in episode 4 they apparently potrayed this as a bad thing but in the newest episode the make a joke of it and NOBODY REACTS? Not even Angel? Husk? Nifty? Cherri? Anyone???

Cuz like now I am thinking should I take Angel's situation seriously at all if when the same thing happens to Sir P and its not a big deal.

Oh and before anyone says "You didnt watch the show so you dont know the full context"

My guy, Context or Not it still shows Sir Pentious screaming not wanting to have sex with the entire club, that is enough to show the double standards

Like I felt so bad when watching the scene for Sir Pentious, he deserves better

[lime-bucket]

Notice how i never brought up eve in any of my complaints abt cain & abel?its not becuz i havent thought abt her,but since we all know how viv writes her female characters,theres not a universe in wich eve would have been handled properly in the narrative,like at least theres an open plot potential fr her sons😑the most nice possibility i could thing is it will be revealed she divorced adam long ago & got herself a new man/angel IF THEY MAKE EVE & LILITH A THING ISTFG IM GONNA-

Howvr i still have hope that eve in s2 gonna appear as an obstacle against lute & her plans once shell step in & take over adam high position,or she could offer aid to emily on contacting charlie in hell to help the sinners.& even if eve wont contribute to the plot they can just cut to her showing sir pentious around in heaven & helping him get use to his new life.

Nontheless im afraid she wont matter in any way in HH cuz ever since the story introduced lilith as the rebellious wife of adam i had this worry that eve will be the foil to her & have a submissive/meek role