#stuff gets retconned all the time! it's fine!

[miraculouslbcnreactions]

Do you think it's weird that I was fine with Roxas finding out he was Sora's Nobody in Kingdom Hearts, but Adrien not being what we thought he was triggered my ick factor a lot? Do you think it's because we learned that about Roxas before we had a lot of time to get attached to him?

I was initially going to say that I can't answer this because I've only played Kingdom Hearts 1, so my knowledge of the later games is pretty limited. Then I remembered that my little brother is both obsessed with those games and the Mycroft to my Sherlock*, so I gave him a call and got the expert opinion (and a reminder that I need to play the Kingdom Hearts games so that my brother can talk about them with someone who understands story telling because those games apparently make a lot of... interesting choices.)

Here is the sum of my brother's analysis:

The two properties handled the concept of personhood and artificial beings in such wildly different ways that it would never even occur to him to compare them (though it was an interesting question once posed). A good portion of the later Kingdom Hearts games revolve around asking what a person even is. Should they try to make the Nobodies into people? Do the Nobodies even need to change to be people or are they people already? What makes Roxas different from other Nobodies? These questions start being asked very early on and, for all the story's flaws, you can tell that the writers are aware that they're dealing with a serious topic and that they're trying to do it justice.

Meanwhile, Miraculous introduces artificial beings who don't have true free will and then... completely ignores all of the ethical implications of that plot point. Emilie and Gabriel are good parents. The fact that the heroes have been killing off sentimonsters isn't concerning. Gabriel's commands are just a minor inconvenience to Adrienette and not anything that needs to be explored in a deeper way. He's still totally redeemable and it's fine that Adrien never learned the truth while his father was alive so that he could decide what that meant for their relationship on his own terms.

Given all of that, it's really not shocking that Kingdom Hearts makes you feel invested while Miraculous repulses you because the Miraculous introduced human sentimonsters for cheap shock value to the point where I firmly believe that it was a retcon. Meanwhile Kingdom Hearts planned major elements of the plot around the concept and set it up right from the start of the second game. If Miraculous had done the same kind of thing, then I doubt that most salters would be deeply upset by the concept. They still might dislike it, but it would be seen more as a matter of taste than as a true flaw.

*For those who don't know, Mycroft Holmes is Sherlock Holmes' older brother. Sherlock openly admits that Mycroft is the smarter and more observant of the two siblings. The same can be said of my sibling when it comes to story telling. Everything I can do, he can do just as well or even better. He's never seen miraculous, but knows the major plot beats from a mix of cultural osmosis and reading the occasional fanfic when an author he likes crosses fandoms. He is highly amused that no one he follows does anything save for fix-it type stuff and says it tells him everything he needs to know about canon's writing quality, an assessment I fully agree with.

[hyperions-light]

The Poison Fruit Ripens

#defendingtheending here we go

First of all mega super ultra spoilers for the ending teaser that Steam says like… 6% ? Of players have seen? So you’ve been warned. No cuts baby, it’s Miyazaki style

Okay, so it’s the Executors, and they’re probably coming across the sea in the next game (if EA doesn’t nuke BW), from what I can gather. I mean, this is fine from a lore perspective. All we knew about those people before is that 1) they are mysterious 2) they are from over there, across the ocean

And now they’re maybe connected to the revealed Qunari lore, which I am ! So excited to have! We already knew that the Qunari fled across the ocean for unspecified reasons, and that going back there was Not A Thing. But now we know that they left because of the (probably metaphorical?) Devouring Storm, which could be connected to the Executors. What are the odds that there are two separate Huge Bad Things Over There that both want to destroy Thedas? Probably is just one big thing— also the title Executor implies they are doing the bidding of someone else, so whatever the Qunari were talking about could be it. (They also talked about being agents of someone else’s will in the Inquisition War Table quest).

So the cinematic shows a bunch of our prominent villains from the previous games being influenced in some way by the Executors. Which I think people are upset about, but I think it’s fine because:

- They did not really specify the manner of influence. I would be annoyed if they retconned Loghain’s decision to leave Cailan on the battlefield because it makes him interesting, but they didn’t say that. They just said they influenced his decisions. They could have done that by stoking his paranoia about Orlais, or by planting Arl Howe to influence him after the battle. He did a lot of OOC stuff while he was King Regent, and this could be a chance to explain what didn’t make sense for his previously established character and was just put in there to make him seem Very Evil.

- They also were around some people doing a blood magic ritual… there weren’t enough of them to be the Magisters, technically, but that is usually what it looks like when we see them in DA art so I’m going to assume that’s them for now. I mean that’s wild if that’s what it is bc that was such a long time ago? Thee guys have really been playing the long game I guess

- The other person they directly influenced seems to be Bartrand, which is really easy because who the fuck gave him that damn map? We NEVER found out who pointed Bartrand to the Thaig! Someone did it, and they probably did it on purpose! It may as well be these guys

- the rest of the villains don’t get guys whispering to them, so I have to assume they mean to imply that they just set up the circumstances that would lead to these people gaining power. I mean someone sent the Carta to the Vimmark mountains, right? And there was like some weird demon there, too.

-So basically they’re just implying that these people have been manipulating events to make sure that shit in Thedas is hitting the fan all at once, which does kind of explain the frankly improbable number of world-ending events that have happened during the Dragon Age. I mean, three Blights, two Magisters, two Evanuris, Antaam invasion, major mage rebellion, Templar schism, and the death of the Southern Divine? It’s only been like 50 years!!! Before the Dragon Age there had only been four Blights since the Ancient Age! Shit does not normally happen this fast in Thedas

I think the phrase itself is pretty direct (also giving Southern Reach vibes). All this chaos they helped sew is reaching its culmination, and now they’re getting ready to cash in the chips. They’re coming to Thedas at the moment that all the great powers are at their weakest, when there’s basically no one to oppose them. Tevinter? Fucked. Qunari? No military anymore. Antiva? Haha! lol, even. Fereldan? Basically gone. Orlais? In shambles. Free Marches? Decimated. Anderfels? There’s like 100 Wardens left in a swamp. Nevarra? I actually don’t know, maybe the lichlords can do something. Maybe Rivain could field some token resistance if they didn’t get hit by the Antaam too badly, but that’s kind of it IMO. This is THE time to come in and conquer(?) the land, or whatever they’re trying to do. Kill everybody?? Turn them into Darkspawn? Who knows!

Some speculation about what could be done to repel invasion:

- shit ton of blood magic

- fix titans, wake them up??? But idk if they’d be into it

- adaari, but idk if there are that many

- people with dragon blood, like the Theirins, are maybe super special and can do things?

- pirates, baby!!! Woooooo!

- I guess Mythal could know something? She can see the future a bit

- dragon army! Dragon army!!

[urproblematicfav-arsonk]

So pretending Viv didn't retcon her own fucking lore drop on twitter by being like "omg!! If it wasn't obvioussssss, he was lying. Silly guy. Isn't the sin of WRATH such a egoistical, self absorbed PRIDEFUL guy"—

I'm very into this idea that Satan, and the Imps and all the Hellborn are the indigenous people of Hell.

Which would mean, that Lucifer got banished to a foreign land, immediately claimed ownership of it, allowed/told his wife to manipulate everyone with her singing, and then proceeded to flood Hell with human Sinner's that he also made legally above all the Hellborn. And then got...bored?? And quit actively being king to go make ducks and emotionally abuse his daughter.

Like, holy shit is Lucifer being a metaphor for white colonialism fucking INSANE. The running assumption (and Viv's bullshit on twitter) has been that Lucifer and the other Sin's were together as a group. That the circus theme, and the rings, and the Goetia was just the world they built. But, if Satan and the Sin's were just the indigenous people who lived there, that sure as fuck makes the circus theme more creepy?

Circuses have historically been horrifying displays of human cruelty. Human trafficking, the buying and selling of people with dwarfism as toys or pets, physical torture and extreme conditions, racisim, rape, animal abuse, just like...bad stuff. There were probably some circuses that were fine, but the vast majority of the time it wasn't done humanely or with any dignity to the people performing.

Lucifer, showed up and just like, forced the Sin's into a Circus they didn't want to be apart of? The Circus isn't a thing anymore, because Lucifer isn't as into it, and all of the Sin's seem perfectly fine not doing it anymore.

Thing is, who the fuck was this Circus for?

The only thing I can think of is Lucifer wanting to feel in control again after being banished, and trying to establish the Sinner's as the deserving and dominate "race".

He would've forced Queen B to humiliate and abuse her hellhounds to do...tricks and dances on balls or whatever the fuck, to show how lowly and animalistic they are. Hellhounds aren't like Sinner's. Sinner's are just people with animal traits, they're REAL PEOPLE unlike these dogs.

He would've forced Ozzie to make his Hellborn and Imps to do dangerous and unnecessary acts. The big difference between Hellborn and Sinner's, is that the Hellborn can actually die. So when the Sinner's see a Imp fall from a trapeze act, or end up set on fire and hurt, they'll see that they're inherently better because they aren't that frail. And again, historically circuses had a lot of human trafficking, sex, labor or otherwise. Ozzie runs the sex industry, and I wouldn't be surprised if there was overlap there in the start.

Mamm and Levi seem to be on the infrastructure side, building and maintaining the society and rings everyone lives on. We KNOW that Imps and Hellborn are underprivileged and lack resources. Hellhounds are forced into shelters where they're thrown out the second the little social funding they have runs out. Imps are basically constantly struggling, and never seem to have stable lives. I wouldn't be surprised if most of the support and care that the Hellborn need are being used to "fix" the "overpopulation" issue that Lucifer caused.

And Satan. Holy shit is forcing Satan, the original king to Hell, and the creator of the main indigenous peoples of Hell, to be the fucking "Law" absolutely horrifying. The fact that Satan is in such a high position of power(supposedly) and he's here, making an "example" of a Imp to get the bureaucracy off his ass and move on with his life. Well, if the god of Imps says that they're all disgusting rapists who are after the poor, innocent white Goetia then that must be true!!!! HORRIFYING. WHAT THE FUCK.

Lucifer forced the original gods of Hell to debase, and humiliate their peoples for the entertainment of his Sinner's, and then got fucking bored and left the circus to hide away in his castle. No wonder Ozzie is a consent freak and B is so concerned about people self harming.

There's a world, where Hazbin Hotel actually takes RISKS, and tries to do something interesting. But Viv backtracks every time. And also would never allow her villian characters to be...ya know....villainous. But Luci can't do more then be kinda a little abusive to his daughter but only in a sad way, otherwise he's not a gooodddd guyyyyyy nooooooo.

Anyway, I'm very attached to this indigenous Satan au. Fuck Lucifer, give the Imps their fucking land back you colonizing bitch, and let Satan be the king of Pride again. And stop forcing them to fucking celebrate your dad's son by claiming it's actually just about celebrating youuuu and your sinnn. Shut the fuck up you goddamn weirdo.

[glitter-stained]

I know some people argue that robin!Jason and Dick were never close post-crisis pre n52 because they only interacted a couple of times in canon and I understand that due to Dick living away when they first met they wouldn't be as close as the relationship Dick has with some of his other siblings, but I would also wish we would take in account that for all three of Jason's years, we have like 30 issues of Jason's run. That's exceedingly small. We have batman #416, we have that one moment in teen titans (i forgot the issue) of jason working with the team, and i think the ski trip we found out later about was included in the same canon*. (also, i do feel like even if you didn't know/like eachother before going on a ski trip together by the end of the ski trip this will have changed, and the picture definitely felt like they were getting along even though Jason's face in the picture was comically weird.) I'm not sure if there were other interactions shown or mentioned, but hey, 2-3/30ish isn't a bad score at all! If we're going 3/30, that's a whole tenth of Jason's robin era.

(And I'm talking about their relationship from Dick's pov since it's the one in question here but it's clear to me in Jason's run, even post-crisis, that Dick is often on his mind and important in his life (with a certain inferiority complex the little siblings of very cool people know well) with stuff like I think Batman #410 or Jason is Legends.)

And even more importantly, 30ish is extremely short for three damn years. That's ten issues per year! Do we assume that Jason was sitting on a shelf for the whole time he's not working with batman in the comics? Do we assume batman was sitting on a shelf twiddling his thumbs all that time during those three years he appears, either? It's perfectly logical to make the assumption that Bruce and Jason were still going out as goddamn Batman and Robin even when it's not shown on screen and having a relationship and interacting together even when it's not seen. In fact it's the most reasonable and logical assumption even. It's obvious Jason and Bruce's interactions extend past what was shown on screen so why wouldn't Dick and Jason? We know from Dick's relationship to his death that Dick cared about Jason. We know how much his death impacted him. Regardless of the (now retconned) terrible mess that was their relationship after Jason came back, they had a relationship, and it was good, and how deep it went is up to interpretation but it doesn't cheapen or lessen any of Dick's relationship with his other siblings to acknowledge that (like, seriously, even though some of them might view it as such in the story, dick's love isn't a prize that can only go to the one blorbo to win the competition. Personally I don't see Robin Jason being his favourite, and that's fine. Probably since, as I only have one sibling to be weird about, this is one aspect of Dick and Jason's relationship that I don't project onto them.)

There's a difference between saying "those are the only canon interactions between Dick and Robin!Jason that we know of" and saying "those are the only interactions that happened between Jason and Dick when Jason was Robin", especially if the next sentence is going to be something like "read a comic". I want to insist that I'm not saying that they have to have been super close. All I'm saying is I don't see, with the knowledge I personally have of canon and the retcons I choose to disregard (because of terrible writing), why considering that they were close wouldn't be canon compliant.

Leeway, nuance and up to interpretation stuff are fun and should matter for evaluating the level of canon compliance of your own headcanons, and I think it's especially important when trying to police other people's interpretation of canon: are you certain their interpretation is fanon and you're correcting it with the right canon, or is it a case of two headcanons clashing in the blank space between comic pages?

I just found it strange to never see it taken in account in the sometimes pretty emphatic takes I saw on the debate around their relationship, so those are my two cents on the matter. All this to say, [theatre joke in coming], when it comes to Dick and Jaybin, we could all stand to be more chill.

* btw i'm excluding dixon's nightwing year one from this conversation because I hate how it manages to shit on every one of the characters i've seen him write in it so violently and also fuck dixon, my jason comes from post-crisis not that crappy weirdo retcon.

[caligvlasaqvarivm]

I’m always curious about Kankri being redeemed in any way (maybe because he can become the sufferer). Obviously to do so would be simply punting him to reality and force him to live it, no help from his shoddily-made support structure. But I’m curious how you would go about doing it

Given their role thematically in the story, I'm actually usually not on the train of "fully redeem the dancestors", but I do like giving them some catharsis and reckoning, a place in the fight against LE. One last chance to do something good with their lives/afterlives before the end, and a(n implied) new start as wigglers born into the new universe.

So to that end, in my head, the "turnaround point" for Kankri - the inciting incident that makes him have a mental breakdown that results in him finally taking some accountability for his shitty actions - is having a conversation with Eridan.

In my head, the Dancestor reckoning happens gradually, alongside a series of retcons where the dead trolls are brought back one or two at a time, and deal with their emotional issues a little more with every cast member added back into the party.

The TL;DR series of events is: Terezi asks to bring back Vriska, Vriska asks John to punch out Tavros before she can kill him, Tavros's influence makes Gamzee ask for Equius and Nepeta to be brought back, Equius asks for a redux of Aradiabot, Aradiabot grabs John by the arm and gets him to undo her death and Sollux's fall into depression, Sollux asks for Feferi to be brought back, and then Karkat asks for Eridan.

We know from (Vriska) that the Game Over/Alpha Timeline characters still exist post-Retcon, so those characters would also be continuing their character arcs, just in the afterlife prepping for the LE fight. For example, I think Meenah's reckoning should be delivered by (Karkat) - after having had so long to reflect on his own failures as a leader, he would be perfectly poised to scream at her for hers, which would also serve to make this confrontation a final thesis for Karkat as a whole - what leadership means (caring about your team) - and a conclusion to the Meenah/Karkat dynamic.

So when I say that Kankri needs to talk to Eridan, I mean Eridan and not (Eridan). Full character development, all his teammates are alive, taken full accountability and responsibility for his actions, team good guy Eridan. And as I noted in this essay, Eridan with full character development is actually more annoying than regular Eridan, because he's also the "Devastating: Worst Guy You Know Made An Excellent Point" guy. In bulleted form:

He's still an advocate for murder. Murder is literally what kept his friends alive long enough to play the game, and playing the game itself involves genocide, so he would be the Token Evil Teammate who reminds the team that, hey, murder is an option - and enemies will be considering it. Even at his very best, he's going to struggle with empathy and have an extremely blase view of violence and murder - those were literally just facts of his life through his most formative years.

This also makes him a TOTAL downer, as he's the tempering voice that reminds them that decisions have consequences, and utopia requires sacrifices, and nothing is ever worth fighting for that won't eventually need to be fought for. Like I said, worst guy you know, excellent points. In fact, he's out here volunteering to do the murdering when the situation calls, if nobody else wants to get their fins dirty. He's really good at it.

He's still an idiot who doesn't listen to people. He's perfectly fine at taking orders, but having a conversation with him is still really difficult. I feel like if you make Eridan too smart, mentally flexible, and socially aware, you lose a lot of his Eridan-ness, and I think these characters, fully realized, are more of themselves, not less. I also don't know how you could reasonably expect to fix these traits. He's just Like That.

He drops his fake pro-Empire stuff, because that was basically all just empty posturing in the first place, but...

Now he's a pretentious-ass hipster who judges you for liking Trollor Swift and Troll Marvel. Given that Jake's indiscriminate taste is actually linked to his deficit of Hope (he has little conviction, he's wishy-washy), Eridan coming into full Prince of Hope regalia involves getting even more annoying about his taste in media (shittons of conviction, refusal to budge).

He is also a wizard. He will not shut up about this.

And finally, I think he'd still be out here using slurs. First of all, because it'd be really funny, because he's literally not casteist, but second, because there's two types of "it's equality" - the kind where nobody ever says anything offensive, and the kind where "offensive" stops being a relevant concept because true equality has been achieved. Think of the discourse surrounding the reclamation of slurs IRL, or how the "it's equality" meme gets used - this idea that words can be stripped of power by changing the context of who's saying them, or that objectification/discrimination stop being problems if they're applied evenly across the board, instead of limited to specific groups. I think that this is the exact type of nuanced idea that Homestuck would tackle and its fandom would get incensed about, which is why I think it should stay.

Eridan's role, thus, becomes a sort of "unpleasant truths" kind of character. Violence, both physical and verbal, is unpleasant as hell, and the natural instinct is to avoid it. The problem is, in any true discussion of what society should look like, they're topics that can't be avoided, and are even sometimes necessary not just to recognize, but to utilize (no revolution is bloodless, etc.). Eridan - an extreme personality - is going to represent the uncomfortable extreme of the debate. And by that I mean he's going to be saying slurs and talking about murders and is still going to be unquestionably a force for good.

The reason I'm going so in-depth into this is because Kankri very much represents the opposite: using "polite" language and couching it in the language of courtesy, activism, and liberal ideology, Kankri hides - and worse, spreads - his classist, ableist, misogynistic, puritan beliefs. He enforces the class divide and actively works against his teammates' best interests.

He whines that the lower blood castes should stop complaining about oppression, because others have it worse. He tells the team feminist that misogyny isn't real, then slut shames her. He tells the guy with brain damage that he's making other neurodivergent/TBI people look bad, exacerbates Latula's shame around her inability to smell, and actively guilt trips Cronus into ignoring his epiphany and self-reflection. Kankri is only an activist in that he actively makes everybody worse.

But why does he act like this? Well, it's due to the fact that he was probably culled, and on-sight at that, like Karkat would've been if anyone found out about his mutant blood. Kankri doesn't seem to have a symbol or lusus, either, two thinks Karkat only had because the Signless's followers prepped them for him, so the chances are very high that Kankri was culled since he was hatched. Given the way he discusses culling with Latula, and viciously despises being mothered by Porrim, it's clear he has some really complicated feelings regarding having his agency dismissed. Thus, his work to hamper his team - at least some of which is wilful on his part, as he'll outright cast aspersions on Horuss or Cronus's beliefs for being "imaginary" even as he encourages them to commit to them - is motivated by something quite simple: power, attention, entitlement, and control.

When he goes on his grand lectures, he frequently slips and reveals that he sees himself as a great, unquestionable spiritual leader, often trying to place other characters in subordinate positions to himself - Karkat is his "pupil," and his monologues, I mean, sermons, I mean, diatribes, are spoken as if from a position of authority. He outright tells Meenah that this is what he believes himself to be.

It's a very Seer sort of problem - both that of hubris and that of willful blindness. If you chart out the actual "end goal" of his beliefs, it appears to be a world in which Kankri himself is both the biggest victim and most important voice in the room. He regularly disparages those with actual disadvantages (Damara, Porrim, Mituna) while playing up the false problems of those who don't actually have them (Horuss, Cronus). Those with disadvantages should have their voices amplified - except lowbloods should stop whining and misogyny isn't real. And those with real power should check their privilege - but won't somebody think of the poor highbloods who have ~emotional problems~? Kankri will, and all the highbloods need to do is bend the knee and treat Kankri as their specialest boy.

In short, he's using his intellect, rhetoric, and forceful personality for selfish, emotionally-driven pursuits. The actual substance of his arguments is ephemeral and contradictory because that's the trick - the point is NOT to further equality, but to verbally browbeat his conversation partner into submission. In other words, you can't beat Kankri in a regular debate, because the moment you start trying to actually engage in a debate with him, he wins. The moment you start lunging at his arguments, he's got you in his red-texted labyrinth. The moment you start treating his points like they merit genuine discussion, you're in the pews of Kankri's church, and he's up at the pulpit.

And Eridan is the destroyer of faith. He's also an idiot who doesn't listen to people.

I don't really know exactly how it would play out, but I know in my heart. In the pit of my soul. That Eridan would call Kankri several slurs, (correctly) point out that Kankri's celibacy is stupid because it's clear he has feelings for Cronus and Latula, (correctly) point out that his pro-equality stuff is stupid because he calls violets "Royal-V"s, (incorrectly) accuse Kankri of hitting on him, (correctly) point out that the entire point of a slur is that it hurts and insults the person it's used on, (correctly) call Kankri several more slurs, (correctly) point out that Kankri just wants attention, especially from highbloods, (???) go on an unhinged rant (maybe more) about being a wizard, being a murderer, and being a murderer wizard, (???) insult Kankri's taste in music, and finish it up by (correctly) revealing that Eridan and Karkat are moirails who make out sometimes.

I think Kankri would start crying.

[rubysapphrald]

See I actually like the basic concept of Lantern Color Corps because I think people could do something with how they each use different emotions to patrol/police the known universe but yeah that Parallax Demon Possession Shit sounds like the most cop-out justification imaginable. Any character is far more interesting going through challenging and difficult circumstances than just being a flat hero/villain all the time

the thing about johns is like. he has this weird idea of moral purity where characters can never evolve from villains into heroes or heroes into villains. you’re only ever worthy of redemption if you were never actually really evil, and you can only have a heel turn if you were actually secretly evil the whole time. so this is how you get stuff like his “actually none of us ever liked him and we always got weird vibes” retcon regarding max lord and the justice league international post infinite crisis, when that’s not only demonstrably false but also undercuts the impact of his villain turn in the first place. johns obviously really liked hal jordan and wanted to bring him back into the story, but because others left off with him on a sour note, he had to go back on all that stuff to make it so that hal was never actually technically responsible for all that stuff he did. it’s really stupid because the original 1994 story makes it very obvious that hal is not suddenly doing evil stuff for evil reasons, he’s having a fucking freakout because his hometown got leveled and his bosses are keeping stuff from him and all his disillusionment and internal struggle is coming to a head. while in 2007 it’s just relegated to the cop-out answer of “actually he was normal and fine and a demon from space made him do and think all that stuff”. a genuine depiction of the consequences of a good-intentioned but extremely unwell man undergoing a psychotic break while having access to the power of a lantern ring will always ALWAYS be more engaging at least to me than “uhhhh um there was an evil worm in his brain mind controlling him” but johns’ rejection of the original narrative and unwillingness to actually reconcile it is insanely detrimental to the story

[mdhwrites]

May I ask your opinion about Camila as a mother? To me, she is a great mom with good writing. My only gripe is in the first ep when she's okay with Luz discarding her Azura book in the trashcan. It's Manny's gift for Luz.

This one is... Complicated. And I think we're gonna disagree hard on it just by what you consider your one gripe to be.

What is a parent's duty? This is a very, very important question to ask with this. Because, you know, as a friend, Camila is amazing. She's endlessly patient, endlessly kind, I call her a saint because she is just perfect. She has no flaws by the end of the show and scolds herself for the literal ONE TIME she ever tries to reign Luz in.

Reminder: In the first episode, Luz brings wild animals and fireworks to school without permission or without any regard to safety. She inadvertently assaulted MULTIPLE PEOPLE with those snakes because we see more than just the principle being attacked by them. We also know this isn't a first time thing because of the SPIDER SWARM. If I had been in the classroom with Luz for the spider swarm, I would have had a straight up panic attack because I, like many others, have arachnophobia.

A parent's core job, only below keeping their child alive, is to prepare them for the world. To make sure they understand right from wrong, that they understand how society works and how to handle it, how to be themselves while not hurting others, etc. like that. I'm not saying that they must make their children conform but, you know, people still have to be a part of society. To know when their freedoms come against others. Because, sure, you can release spiders into a classroom but when half the parents of the students in that class want you expelled, that is entirely in their right because you did not consider, for a second, anyone other than yourself.

At this, Camila is an abject failure by the end of the show. She actually starts really good though. Now, throwing away Manny's gift is... Yeah, that's real questionable but also Azura being from him feels like a complete retcon, especially since Luz doesn't actually hold that series that close to her. She is a pretty flighty fan and in S2, Amity does WAY more for being excited about Azura than Luz does which, you know, is kind of odd if this memento of her father means that much to her. No, in the context of S1, it's the right move. Luz has crossed the line where she is treating reality like fantasy. She thinks she can just do this stuff and it'll be fine because her perception is at best flawed. So yes, Luz needs to wake up. She needs a chance to get a reality check and Camila doesn't even ask for a huge one. She will be happy if Luz makes friends because in order to make friends, you have to meet them halfway, start showing real compassion, empathy, etc. like that, traits Luz is tragically devoid of early on. It's a good goal for not pressuring Luz too hard.

And then Luz goes to a magical world where she gets to live out the life of an isekai protagonist who by the end of the series is willing to condemn an entire world to death just because she's afraid of making another mistake and having to pay for the consequences of it. To say that's missing the point is a bit of an understatement. And I cannot emphasize this enough. She decides on her own, because she feels bad for having made a decision on her own that went poorly, to avoid all consequences for that decision and just stay home with her loving mom while leaving her friends ostensibly to go die because she admits herself that the Collector is terrifyingly powerful. That is not martyrdom, that's self pity with the veneer of sacrifice. It is still not an empathetic worldview that cares about others, reinforced in For the Future where she goes "I'm going to check and make sure King and Eda are okay and then I'm going home." She talks a much bigger game to Boscha but to her mom who knows the truth? It's to check on the people SHE cares about and then leave. All of them. The whole world doesn't matter to her. That's fucked up.

And THAT is the version of Luz that Camila APOLOGIZES to. And for what? Sending her to camp which was her just trying to get Luz to properly connect with reality ONCE. Because again, otherwise Camila has endless patience. She never brings up the promise after all, she doesn't question taking in these kids or the weird lizard girl who's been impersonating her daughter, Camila defends Luz's creativity at every step, etc. etc. She is Luz's biggest defender in the series... And still apologizes for the one time she criticizes her. The one time she arguably does her job as a mom.

That to me makes her a bad mom. Arguably, even worse than Odalia. Odalia is a WAY worse person, but as a mom? I've made blogs about the fact that the fandom projects a lot onto her, incorrectly so, and that by the standards of her own society, she is mostly just trying to protect Amity and help her succeed. Oh, what terrible goals! Yes, she's too controlling and applies too much pressure BUT AT LEAST SHE'S TRYING. And if it feels like I talk a lot more about Luz in this blog than Camila... Well, it's a parent. Their job is to raise children. So we have to look at the child as a part of the evaluation.

And Luz? Luz needed a parent, not the two friends she got out of Eda and Camila. But apparently a parent is not what anyone wants. See you next tale.

======+++++======

I do want to add that I don't know where to put the fact that Camila is a single mom here because it's very complicated. It's good on her that she has the income to let Luz have expensive hobbies, do what she wants, have a house to live in, be there for all of Luz's events, meetings, etc. like that. She replicates what two parents give pretty much all the other kids in the show so well that it feels more like an oversight than anything else. Also, yes, it's good that Camila keeps Luz happy and healthy but that doesn't really change the fact that she is failing to raise Luz despite having all this time and resources to facilitate keeping Luz happy. However, I've seen the problem with that as a kid's parent would just let them watch tv and play video games with them and left it up to the kid's grandma to treat them how to read and write. Guess what activity made the kid happy versus what activity helped the kid grow as a person. And yes, that parent WAS a single mom and I judged them harshly then too.

I have a public Discord for any and all who want to join!

I also have an Amazon page for all of my original works in various forms of character focused romances from cute, teenage romance to erotica series of my past. I have an Ao3 for my fanfiction projects as well if that catches your fancy instead. If you want to hang out with me, I stream from time to time and love to chat with chat.

A Twitter you can follow too

And a Kofi if you like what I do and want to help out with the fact that disability doesn’t pay much.

[lilyginnyblackv2]

Thoughts on the new Buffy series and the comics:

Over on Reddit a lot of people are looking at this new Buffy series and the comics as an "either-or" type of situation rather than a "both can co-exist" situation. Largely this is due to the fact that most Buffy fans haven't actually read the comics (or have only read all or some of Season 8), so they don't even have a clear picture of how the comics end. But it's honestly so easy and doable for this new series to be post-comics, make a small acknowledgement of that in some way (Buffy mentioning that she lived in San Francisco for a little while, etc.), but not require any actual knowledge of the comics in and of themselves. Like, having it so that the stuff in the comics still happened doesn't mean that these things have to be directly adapted or shown in the new series, especially because Buffy's character is going to be a mentor and not the main character in the series.

The Buffy comics seasons ended when Buffy was 30 and this series is taking place with a Buffy that is likely going to be in her 40s. 10 - 15 years is a long enough time for some major changes to have occurred. Given all of the issues with Xander's actor, it's unlikely that his character is going to be present in the series. A lot of people heavily dislike the Dawn and Xander relationship in the comics, but if the series were to introduce Joyce (the daughter of Dawn and Xander in the comics) they could easily either 1. retcon this a bit so Joyce's father is someone else (like a random dude Dawn met at college) or 2 is still Xander's, but have it so that Xander passed away sometime during those 10 - 15 years. Since Buffy isn't going to be a main character, we likely aren't even going to get that much in the way of Dawn anyway, unless they involve Joyce into this (she would be around 15 max in the series if they were to do that, so she would be the teen age range that the series often has the characters start off at).

By the end of Season 11 the supernatural and demon world has gone back to being an underground thing, and by the end of Season 12 Giles is back to being his older self and Buffy is single. Everyone ends the series on fairly good terms too, so it's a fairly easy clean slate to transition from if the series were to take place after it.

There is the whole "Buffy becomes a cop" thing in Season 12, which I hate, so I wouldn't mind if they either retconned that as well or had it where Buffy experienced just how corrupt the system truly was from the inside-out and left. In Season 7 we saw Buffy training and preparing the Potentials with a slightly more grey point of view than Giles and in Season 11 we see Buffy really existing in those grey spaces, so this wouldn't necessarily be new grounds for Buffy in that sense. But we've always seen Buffy touting the idea that dangerous humans should be judged by the police and other human based systems that are in place. An ex-cop Buffy would likely approach this differently as well and train a Slayer with a different mindset in regards to all that, and it would fit in with a lot of the modern day hot topics and discussions surrounding ACAB, police corruption, and police brutality. So I would be down for it.

Of course, at the end of the day I'm not expecting this new series to acknowledge the comics in any way (and that's fine with me), but I do think that this new series and the comics could peacefully co-exist with each other. The series could easily take place after the events of Seasons 8 - 12, and it would be very easy and doable for people with no knowledge of the comics to still enjoy the content. This doesn't necessarily have to be an "either-or" situation. There is so much potential here.

Regardless of what they decide to do with all of that, I'm excited to see what and how this new series will be!

[showtoonzfan]

Hey it’s been a bit! The Mammon episode finally came out, so here’s my review!

Pros:

- The sign language scene was cute. Kinda weird that a kid was seeing a show that was clearly for adults but I love me some representation so it gets a pass.

- Despite Blitz not really needing to be in this episode, I thank god he had little screen time and more time was dedicated to Fizz.

- The fish ladies (despite having wonky color palettes that made them EXTREMELY hard to look at) were cute.

Cons:

- Mammon is so flat and uninteresting but I don’t know what I expected from a creator who always hypes her characters up that always end up being one of the three go-to personalities she picks for her male characters. In Mammon’s case he’s just a loud mouth cursing bum so way to ruin another Deadly Sin and make them boring af, moving on.

- I don’t like how Mammon and Fizz’s relationship are similar of Val and Angel’s, Viv keeps recycling stories, characters and plot lines ect, it makes Angel’s story for Hazbin really predictable/underwhelming and not exciting to look forward too especially since we already have the “mafia bad daddy” aspect to him too that they pulled for Moxxie. I guess the idea of Mammon being a controlling ruler is fine on paper but not much is done with it, Fizz just quits in the end like it was easy with zero consequences so what was all that build up for.

- Fizz himself once again feels REALLY out of character, he’s just too soft compared to how he was introduced in season 1. He’s constantly nervous in this episode and insecure, as well as walking on eggshells, and even in Oops he wasn’t THIS sensitive. I’m all for characters struggling and being kicked down but it has to make sense and not feel forced, and once again it feels like Viv is trying way to hard to make the characters she once introduced as snarky assholes to uwu innocent babies. I refuse to believe Fizz was actually INTIMIDATED by this random geeky imp who insulted him, as well as the fish ladies whom he was weirdly nice and welcoming to. It’s also weird seeing how uncomfortable/nervous he was around his fans when I thought the whole point was that he LOVED praise and loved being famous, at least that was season 1 Fizz. Now he feels retconned. Seeing him say “I just need this gig” is weird too, the explanation to why he went through all of this makes no sense, Fizz still has Ozzie and is famous in the Lust ring, and I understand Mammon is his idle but to go through all that abuse for so long for something that could have been so easily avoided feels forced to fit the plot, but it also makes Fizz look dumb.

- There’s confusing lore stuff regarding Mammon and Ozzie, and it makes me realize that Viv should have picked ONE storyline aka ONE Seven Deadly sin to go with Fizz’s story because this is getting mixed up. Fizz acts like if he looses this completion, he looses everything, which confused the heck out of me because no he wouldn’t have? First of all, Ozzie is a fucking powerful sin, how would you loose him? Second, from what we know from season 1, Fizz is a jester who performs at Ozzie’s club. It was Ozzie who built the sex robots across the rings of hell, NOT Mammon, and in season 2 we see that Fizz is under Ozzie’s care and lives in his house. Yet for some weird reason Mammon also represents Fizz and uses him for profit, but it’s not really explained in a way that makes sense, like Love’s art had said in her Fizz redesign video, Fizz’s job is really confusing on what exactly he does. Having both Ozzie and Mammon represent him overcomplicates things and the show did a poor job at explaining how this goes.

- Once again Viv dumps trauma and struggle onto her characters without building it up first. When did Fizz ever give off the impression that he was being controlled or abused, or even that he was so insecure and constantly walked on eggshells to be perfect. In Oops he was happy to be in the spotlight and happy to get the attention, he bragged to Blitz about how successful he was. He seemed happy to perform for Mammon and talked of him highly, and now you’re pulling an Angel Dust situation where he’s expected to be perfect 24/7 and it gets to him emotionally, while also being someone who’s physically and mentally abused. Yet another season 2 episode that wasn’t planned, same as how Millie wanting to feel important wasn’t planned, same as how Stolas seeing Blitz as genuine love wasn’t planned. Different episode, same issues.

- I’m so done with the Hell lore bro, this place officially has no rules and demons can just do anything without consequences. There’s no class system, there’s no rankings, there’s no power dynamics, screw anything that Viv says. There was no fucking reason why Ozzie and Fizz’s relationship needed to be a secret. There was no reason showing Ozzie threatening his workers to not tell anyone about his love life if he was just going to admit it to EVERYONE THE NEXT EPISODE IN FRONT OF ANOTHER SIN ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME— what was the POINT. What is the point of Stolas and Blitz’s conflict. What is the point of Stella being classist. What is the point of these class systems and rules if you can just announce that you technically broke a hell rule and no one gives a fuck and you get off scott free. Mammon telling Ozzie “you’ll regret that” like a cartoon villain doesn’t do anything either. What is he ganna do? Tell Lucifer, the character that canonically won’t appear in HB because the sins won’t appear in HH? If Lucifer rules over the sinners, who the fuck is in charge for the rest of Hell. Where’s the authority? And Mammon is just ganna come back for another episode to give the gang trouble cause lord knows we don’t have enough fucking villains already.

- It feels weird that Ozzie would just sit back while someone whom he knows is a piece of shit is treating his loved one badly. I get he was concerned but you’d think one of the seven deadly sins would have more power and authority.

- I was expecting some big gross bug-like thing to appear when Mammon was transforming into his final form, only for it to the exact same design but with small extra eyes and a spider lower half that isn’t even visible in most shots….GOD VIV.

Watching this episode also made me remind myself that this is supposed to be Hell. Seeing Fizz feel better and stand up for himself was sweet but these soft lessons and morals don’t belong in a show like this, and it’s extra aggravating regarding Viv’s double standard, how she can just pick and choose which characters she wants to be evil and which characters are saints. Overall not anywhere near the worst episode of season 2, but I am officially done with Helluva Boss so-

[suzukiblu]

who is match?

That . . . is a slightly complicated question, friend, because he keeps getting either retconned or getting given VERY alternate origins, hah. When I'M talking about him, I'm usually talking about specifically this version:

THAT Match is the OG version from the nineties, who was created by the Agenda as a clone of Superboy and meant to be the first draft/test run of a line of metahuman clone soldiers they wanted to produce to, like, sell to the highest bidder. He's an asshole who insists that he has no free will and therefore can't be enslaved while VERY CLEARLY BEING A PERSON WITH FREE WILL WHO IS BEING ENSLAVED, and the Agenda mostly trots him out to pretend to be Superboy and fuck with Project Cadmus or the superhero community in general or just try to murder Superboy/Young Justice/whoever they're annoyed with this week, I guess. His whole thing is he's better-educated than Superboy and knows more about literally everything but especially how their powers work, because he got the full education uploads (AND THE FULL INDOCTRINATION UPLOADS, JUST SAYIN') while Superboy got yanked out of his own cloning tube early and saved from . . . well, at least SOME of the mind control that Cadmus was gonna stuff in his head. SOME of it.

( goddammit, Lex )

This Match considers Superboy obsolete and himself as a better, updated version of their design, and again, is way better-educated and better with their powers. He is also way less creative and self-motivated, however, which tends to bite him in the ass when Superboy decides to get batshit in their fights. Like, that's generally how Superboy beats him, when he does: he just does something absolutely fucking STUPID and it works because Match is thinking "no one would actually be that stupid--oh my GOD how are you THIS STUPID?!?!"

Later on for no apparent reason they decided to have him genetically degrade and go Bizarro in Teen Titans, which annoyed the fuck out of me because it's actually the literal worst possible thing you could do to a character who prides themselves on being an improved design and more intelligent than their rival/enemy/foil, but like . . . the narrative was not really examining that, from what I know of it, the narrative was just "oh Bizarro Superboy is here to upset/freak out everybody while Kon is dead and also now he's being mind-controlled by an asshole and the good guys are . . . fine with that? for some reason??" and just . . . sigh. SIGH. And then he gets fucking murdered and used for scrap parts to make MORE Superboy clones, which oh my god, fucking horrifying TOO and YET . . .

Though apparently in Rebirth, he's alive again and they've semi-redone his origin and made him a clone of Superboy that Amanda Waller has inexplicably managed to produce and even more inexplicably somehow uploaded all of Kon's memories into? Somehow?? And is forcing to work on the Suicide Squad for her, because fuck Amanda Waller, jfc. And for a while in there he thought he WAS Kon, because like, how the fuck would he have known different. So that was fun for him to find out about, I guess! Especially because he ALSO started to Bizarro-degenerate about five seconds into that particular realization.

FYI KON HAS TRIED TO SAVE THIS BOY SO MANY TIMES AND IT HAS NEVER WORKED. NEVER. IT KILLS ME.

Also he seems to have inherited Kon's thing for older women along with his presumable memories, cough cough cough.

And ALSO there's a version of Match in Young Justice Animated who is actually OLDER than Conner, because he was directly cloned from purely Kryptonian DNA and then failed as a weapon because he wasn't controllable, and Project Kr was created as a hybridized clone after he became too unmanageable to use. He's apparently just full-stop psychotically violent due to shitty mental conditioning and instability in his Kryptonian DNA, and very much unbalanced, which is waaaaay different than the more calculating and educated version we first got in the comics.

It actually low-key makes me insane that they apparently just decided to make a character who was all uncontrollable violence and rage and just, like . . . never revisit him or actually HELP him despite the fact that he is EXPLICITLY both mentally AND physically compromised and therefore can't really be considered to be, you know, an informed asshole making informed asshole decisions any more than Conner was when his pod first got cracked. Project Match is a fucking baby who's had a very shit excuse for a "life" and has been CONDITIONED to respond violently AND is effectively suffering from a genetic disorder, but we're just gonna . . . ignore that, I guess . . . and punish him for it? I guess?? For being how he was made and not having the mental capacity to figure out how to be anything else in the, like, thirty fucking seconds of actual consciousness the series allows him??

And I am just not gonna talk about what they did to him in the tie-in comic, hahaha. FUCK that tie-in comic.

( one day I will write fix-it fic for you, YJ Animated Match. one day. I AM COMING FOR YOU. BE STRONG. )

[david-talks-sw]

Thoughts on Tales of the Empire?

Worth noting that I do my best to look at these as short films, the same as the ones I see when I go to film festivals. So re: any "lore-breaking" elements (Grievous' design, Thrawn stuff, etc)... I don't see them as retcons, so much as just format-driven reinterpretations.

That said, the first of the Morgan episodes is okay, the rest is lackluster... which is telling, frankly.

Even with three Tales of the Empire episodes on top of what we've seen in Ahsoka and The Mandalorian, they still haven't been able to give this character more depth than "she suffered loss and now she's mean." Morgan Elsbeth is the Jiren of Star Wars, as far as I'm concerned.

The Barriss episodes were fine. I'm glad to see she finds the light in the end and goes back to being a healer (win for EU fans) and I'm glad she eventually mended bridges with Ahsoka. She's probably not dead, if you ask me.

But even here... this is someone who bombed the temple, killed innocent people, made a woman inject nanobots into her husband then choked her to death to cover her tracks AND framed her friend.

A lot of people cling to her speech in the Senate to characterize her as this Cassandra-type figure, but don't forget this moment...

I mean come on guys, she's literally smiling sadistically, here.

My point being: she's no snowflake.

Aside from the already-panned fact that taking one of the few muslim-coded characters and making them a bomber is extreeemely poor form: you made a choice in writing, now stick to it. You wanted to have Barriss be someone who feels the red blades of a known assassin "suits her"? Do it.

I have no idea where they saw the above and thought that the "I don't wanna fight you, old friend" BS in her first episode, or the "we're supposed to be better than this" rhetoric from the second episode, would track.

I can fill in the gaps, and gladly will.

My headcanon is that Luminara visited her whenever she could... and this softened Barriss' hardened heart, over time. Then one day she's sent to Kashyyk, and "don't worry Barriss, I'll be back for our daily chat"... and she doesn't. Barriss goes to sleep concerned, wakes up during Order 66.

But, as usual, that's me getting creative with it because the creatives wouldn't do so in the first place. Also, I'm pretty sure "Barriss becomes an inquisitor" is a turnout most folks expected, so no real mind-blowing beats coming from these episodes.

All in all, a 7/10 in my book (a high score despite all my bitching because my qualms are with the writing; the sound design and visuals are amazing and I think a 7 reflects that).

[natsmagi]

sorry to trash on wish again but like after reading it, the story really is so unnecessary.. like they could have just made the storyline about mototsugi coming back and tsumugi knowing how much he's actually important to newdi as it's own story but in the SAME STORY it inherently discredits any of tsumugi's own wishes ?

like the plot points generally feel so contradicting not to mention it's really insulting that the writers think they could just dangle shipbait and assume people would like the story for that (eimugi just felt... off? not to mention making natsume cut the hair he was just revealed to actually like deep down ? ?? )

I don't get how it isn't any less obvious how the "tsumugi cuts his hair for the *better*" is shoehorned in without any actual thought, and that pisses me off because some people think that wish was for tsumugi's development when it really is disrespecting it

literally the more u look into that story the more it falls apart. the critiques go beyond retconning old points, its very foundation is nonsensical and unnecessary which makes the narrative entirely unbelievable

im waiting to reread it until a full translation is available bc frankly im trying to avoid that story as much as possible because of how painfully ooc its been. so while i have "read" the entirety through livetweets/partial TLS/MTLs im gonna leave my full thorough dissection of it when i can be 100% sure im not simply misunderstanding bits and pieces

but even so the faults are all glaring. its all cheap drama that when you think about it truly meant nothing in the grand scheme of things. tsumugis "wish" being labeled a curse only for him to at the end basically make the exact same wish is beyond me. and yea the eimugi stuff puts on display how blatantly theyre just doing yaoibait for the sake of yaoibait. feeding into that love triangle dynamic this fandom seems so obsessed with by having natsume appear jealous over the karaoke thing. And having eimugi "go to karaoke" (eichi was only there through a screen) completely undermines how crucial them NOT going to karaoke was for both of their stories?????? tsumugi had asked eichi to go to karaoke to which eichi had rejected. then during their final fine performance eichi was soaked in regret for what he'd done, and how he'd completely taken tsumugis genuine love for granted, before asking him if things wouldve been different if theyd gone to karaoke that day. if they couldve lived as normal high schoolers. and tsumugi thinks eichi is just pitying him and says not to worry about it, reassuring that he will make himself useful until the end. Completely misunderstanding eichis genuine sorrow. (the element anime makes the karaoke line part of eichis internal monologue, while in the actual story those words are said directly to tsumugi)

in the pleiades monologue (aka the flashback to burning the documents), tsumugi also says that them going to karaoke that day wouldnt have changed anything. and he even says hes fine with that, though it could be read as forced optimism as he was dealing with fresh wounds.

in altered, a somewhat recent story, eichi and tsumugi have both started to heal since the war. theyre on better terms and things arent as awkward between them. But even so eichi reinforces that he wont go to karaoke with tsumugi even now. likely because there is no merit clinging to the past like he had been this whole time, in contrary to tsumugi who had entirely forgotten about the karaoke thing. Altered showed them having moved on from it all, which is especially significant for eichi who continuously dwells on the past.

and then comes wish... Not ONLY do they disregard the weight karaoke holds in their dynamic and the symbolic significance of them NOT going to karaoke (aka them having moved on and healed) but it ALSO has EICHI be the one planting the seed of tsumugi cutting his hair. yknow, a look more similar to his exfine days that the two of them are SUPPOSED TO HAVE MOVED ON FROM. eichi being this involved in the story alone shoves so much development out the window for BOTH characters. but they dont care about that because the whole scene, eichis whole involvement, is just yaoibait.

tsumugi is happy with switch (or at least. hes supposed to be but wish seemed to forget that too LMAO) and eichi is happy with fine. it took alot for them to reach these points. karaoke to them is clinging to an idea that was never to be. an idea that, at the time, eichi thought couldve made them happy. But that idea is not reality. and yet, they managed to find that lost happiness with someone else. there is no need for karaoke, because they have found the place they finally belong

and this is just me going over the KARAOKE part!!!! which was a very minor event in the story!!!!!!! (all the more evidence of them just not giving it the weight it deserves within their dynamic) every little part of this story is just BAD

[viktor-leagueoflegends]

(I hope this is okay to send but this feels like an appropriate space to let this out) I was already worried when Arcane became canon and most people (except the small group of actual league lore fans) were mostly happy and I think at the time I could almost forgive people dismissing lore fans concerns by claiming Arcane would be approvement over the current lore, because I do genuinely like Arcane season 1 and I understood where they were coming from. But now that season 2s out and it sucks and the viktor vgu's out and I see every arcane fan praise it despite not actually playing league, I just feel so upset? Like I understood defending Arcane's canonicity and overhauling the main lore when only season 1 was out because at least Arcane was actually pretty good but now, not only does it suck but it also just alters things about canon?? Like great, old viktors just gone now and I feel like everyone I see online is cheering or acting like you're a homophobe if you don't like him. Like sorry, as a bi twink, I still think his VGU sucks and is a massive downgrade and that his skins shouldn't have been changed so heavily (i wish they at least preserved the original look through a skin or something)

Thank you for your work . Looking at your blogs made me feel a lot better and I really appreciate the archiving

Hi, thanks for the ask! And yeah, totally fine to send stuff like this here. 

I know exactly what you mean about being worried from the point of Arcane becoming canon, I’ve kind of felt a looming sense of dread about this IP since then and a sort of “...There’s no way they actually go through with it, right?” just because it causes so many logistical issues for a lore that's been built on top of over the years and to change that foundation is.... tricky, to say the least.

I think from the end of arcane 1 there was a possibility of a machine herald overhaul that, yk i wouldn’t be happy with but would be tantamount to the 2011 into 2016 rework where he still maintains the characteristics of being an engineer cyborg and whatnot. And I’d be like “Ok, now I’m in the same boat as the 2011’s, it happens, I’ll cope.”

But this overhaul into something just so completely unrelated, to the point they’re renaming him Herald of the Arcane… it feels bad! It feels really really bad! And like you said, seeing people praise it because they never gave a shit about Viktor and the space he occupies in league sucks major! It’s actively detrimental to the health of the overall lore because it’s going to be SO much work to retcon and many champions are getting caught in the crossfire! All this to try and cashgrab from arcanes!

And ur so right it's honestly so crazy to me the way people are defending the decision. As if it isnt so obviously a half-assed rush job to meet the Arcane deadline. Like. This rework is bad! It is incredibly lazy from the skins to the kit changes! And people are acting like it’s good like no way you consider this a successful rework right. They did fuckall to the kit and made most skins worse. You can ask for better I promise you. But yeah the terrain of the reception to this VGU is wild. Here's hoping we can get some kind of compromise.

And I'm glad the archive has helped. I know I've spent time just mashing the random post until I feel better. Really all I wanted was for this to be a resource for LeagueViktor fans and I'm happy it's doing that.

[miraculouslbcnreactions]

The Pigeon Feather Thing

Every time I see someone mention Adrien's allergy and call it a brilliant bit of foreshadowing for the senti twist I have to physically restrain myself from going into a lecture on how good foreshadowing works because I don't think the feather thing was foreshadowing at all. If it was, then it's terribly done and the writers need to relearn the basics of story telling. But I don't think that's the case. They used foreshadowing perfectly fine with the wedding rings once they either committed to or came up with the senti plot at the end of season four. When we consider that vs the feather thing, it becomes obvious that the feather thing was never meant to be anything more than a joke.

For starters, an allergy to pigeons is not good foreshadowing of association with a peacock!

Yes, as best I can tell, it's specifically a pigeon allergy. It wasn't initially called that, but it IS mentioned multiple times in Mr. Pigeon 72 where Adrien was fine with filming around birds until the species was mentioned:

Mr. Ramier: You can count on Edgar! No animal's more obedient than this sweet little pigeon. Bob Roth: Dove! They're doves! Adrien: Hang on, I'm allergic to pigeons. If they get too close- Bob Roth: Nothing is gonna happen because they're doves! Bob Roth: Your pigeon isn't up for the job! He's not supposed to come back with the rose! Mr. Ramier: The sneeze frightened him. Adrien: I told you, I'm allergic to pigeons! Plagg: Happy to see you again, Adrien. So still allergic to pigeons?

If anything, this reads like them hammering home that this isn't a general feather allergy when it previously might have been. Almost as if they were telling sentitruthers "hey, pigeons, not peacocks, let the theory go!"

I don't think that was the goal here, btw, it's just interesting that this episode is right at the start of season four and does everything that it can to separate the allergy from the senti stuff instead of leaning into it to better setup the reveal later in the season. That's normally how this type of foreshadowing works! You have the initial hint (Mr. Pigeon), the reminder (Mr. Pigeon 72), and the payoff (the reveal). But the allergy plays no part in the reveal and Mr. Pigeon 72 separated the allergy from peacocks, so in what way is it actually foreshadowing?

This is extra true because other sentimonsters were never shown to have the same allergy and good foreshadowing would have absolutely done that! Mr. Pigeon should have had a sentimonster who couldn't go near his pigeons or Sentibug should have sneezed around them or Kagami and Felix could have mentioned having the same allergies. Anything to imply that it was a standard issue for sentimonsters! They had four seasons (and most of season five) to give us those moments and they never did.

As-is, the feather thing is more of a point against the sentiplot being planned because why would anyone make their designer child allergic to pigeons? Sentikids are supposed to be "perfect" after all and we've been given nothing to indicate that the one exception to this rule is a pigeon feather allergy. Did Gabe and Emilie just have a really messed up sense of humor or a weird desire to make sure that Adrien stayed away from pigeons? What's the logic here?

Imo, the feather thing is what I like to call "forced foreshadowing." It's when the audience is so desperate to justify bad writing that they try to force connections that aren't actually there instead of accepting that the thing was a retcon or just poorly set up. At first glance, the feather thing sounds like a really cool way to foreshadow the twist and - to be fair - it would have been if it did. But since there's nothing in the text that actually treats it as foreshadowing it's stupid to call it that. The fact that it associates Adrien with a bird means nothing unless you think that Marinette's constant association with flowers would justify a twist that she's secretly a tree.

[gorogues]

1. What’s the most accurate/canon depiction of The Rogues relationship with each other for both pre-New 52 and post-New 52 comics? (eg what Mark is to Lisa and vice versa, what Digger is to Sam and vice versa, Len and Mick, etc until you’re done listing how everyone’s relationship with everyone else is like)

You can add others (Owen, Axel, Evan, etc) if you want, but this question is mostly aimed at the main Rogues.

2. I swear I saw a post from someone on this platform, I don’t know if it was you or somebody else, but they basically said something along the lines of: “You’d think that it would be out of character for Barry to leave his villains in Iron Heights, knowing how unethical the prison is and all. But the more I thought about it, the more I agreed that no, it isn’t actually that out of character for Barry.”

That thought has been stuck in my head ever since, and as someone who doesn’t really know Barry’s characterisation all that much (a crying shame, I know), I just wanted your opinion.

Is this statement true? I’d like to hear your reasoning for if you agree or disagree.

I didn’t know if I should keep these two questions on separate asks or not, so I just combined them both onto one. Hope you don’t mind all that much. I know it will probably take awhile to answer my questions, if you decide you want to that is. If you do then no pressure, take as much time as you want. If you decide you won’t answer, that’s also completely fine with me. Either way, hope your happy and safe wherever you are and have a good day/night.

Buckle up, because this is a long ride. To start, I'm leaving out stuff like when a Rogue was mind-controlled into doing something, or when they weren't in control of their actions due to being puppeted by Neron or Nekron (although the Black Lanterns were speaking from their victims' memories and thus may have had relevant things to say. It wasn't that person committing evil acts, however). That stuff wasn't voluntary, though of course the people harmed by them during those periods might not see it that way.

--Pre-Flashpoint--

Lisa and Len: Their relationship has varied depending on the era. In the Bronze Age they were often indifferent and sometimes hostile to each other (she didn't seem upset about Len's purported death), but occasionally got along well. After Crisis they frequently worked together and were generally friendly, but tensions built and things turned bad -- originally, Lisa was intended to have murdered her brother for his cold gun, but that was nixed in favour of her just stealing it. By the Johns era she was dead and Len was overtly mourning her, and we'd see in retconned flashbacks that they were very close due to their shared traumatic upbringing. One flashback showed her saying she'd become a criminal to be like her big brother, although Bronze Age comics were quite clear that she did it to avenge her dead boyfriend.

Lisa and Mark: They didn't interact much (just a few issues), but she poisoned him in one story to get him to do her bidding. It doesn't seem like they were close.

Lisa and Digger: Again, they didn't interact much, but she poisoned him in one story to get him to do her bidding. After she died, the tabloids claimed that she and Digger had a secret love-child -- which wasn't true -- but maybe they had more interactions that we never saw. Or maybe the tabloids just assumed Lisa was the mother because she was the only female Rogue in those days.

Lisa and Sam: They never interacted with each other back in the day, but in a later retcon Lisa wanted to be introduced to him because he was "cute".

Lisa and Roscoe: They were dating, and were very close. Eventually death separated them several times and they didn't get back together for unknown reasons.

Lisa and Mick: She and Len once tried to kill Mick in the Bronze Age, but he doesn't seem to have held a grudge; the three of them got along fine after Crisis, and they worked and socialized together. In the Johns era we saw an early flashback of Mick being exceptionally rude to Len about Lisa, so maybe their early relations weren't always great.

Lisa and Hartley: They only appeared in a few stories together, and in one (Blue Devil #30) they didn't interact much but seemed friendly. In DC Retro-Active: The Flash: 1980s they got along quite well, and seemed to get along when the heroes were rescuing Wally from the Turtle Man. Overall they were civil and friendly with each other.

Lisa and James: They co-existed well enough at Len's party, but she later poisoned him to get him to do her bidding. And the relationship between James and the Rogues (including her) was rather sour in Blue Devil. They seemed terse with each other at best.

Len and Mark: Len's been kind and supportive to Mark over the years, especially since taking over the team's dad role, but interestingly he didn't list Mark amongst the Rogues he liked. (There was also a panel in which Len listed Mark amongst three Rogues who were his "real family", but that was right after saying he was glad Lisa was dead -- it was from Johns' first arc and he quickly retconned his own work). Mark seems to like him, and trusted him enough to confess to Clyde's killing. The two had a good relationship of mutual support in Rogues' Revenge, which was probably the best they've ever had and the closest they've been.

Len and Digger: In Len's spotlight issue, he claimed Digger was one of the few Rogues he liked. They did get along well, including working together outside of the Rogues/Central City, though Len didn't treat Digger very kindly near the end of his life. Len was also cool-to-hostile to him after he returned from the dead and wanted to rejoin the Rogues, and actually beat the shit out of him (admittedly Digger had just done something stupid). That said, Len wistfully said "what are friends for, eh, Digger?" when Digger was dead and told Owen that Digger "was one of…my friends", so it seems Len always did retain a soft spot for him even despite his growling. He was probably taking a tough-love approach, even if he was a jerk about it.

Len and Sam: They got along fine before Sam was killed, and even liked each other enough to work together outside of the Rogues/Central City. They didn't seem close or anything, but Sam was one of the few Rogues Len said he liked in his spotlight issue.

Len and Roscoe: They seemed to get along okay or were mostly indifferent to each other before Roscoe died, but after his death Len made it very clear he didn't miss him (although interestingly, Len seemed sad at his funeral). This may be because Roscoe had recently tried to kill the other Rogues if they messed with his plan after he'd died (which they did), but the fact that Roscoe dated Len's sister surely didn't help. By the Johns era the two of them hated each other, and Len opted not to treat Roscoe like he did most Rogues -- leaving him to languish in prison and not helping him when he clearly needed it. Things eventually devolved to Roscoe threatening to mind-control the other Rogues to make them fall in line, and Len killed him. Afterwards, we learned that at some point in earlier history Len had turned the other Rogues against Roscoe to become the group's leader, but unfortunately we don't know the details of what happened.

Len and Mick: A very complicated relationship, which goes from friendly to openly hostile and back again…sometimes within the same issue. Mick said he got along with all the Rogues but Len, which is basically true, and Len was a major reason Mick spent long periods estranged from the Rogues. In the Bronze Age, Len (and Lisa) tried to kill Mick, and previously Len had tried to traumatize Mick by manipulating him into killing an innocent person. Len's been openly insulting to Mick at times, who'd then retaliate in kind, but Len has also been supportive and helpful with Mick's many psychological issues. Sometimes Len watched out for his well-being in ways nobody else did. The end result is a complicated and not very healthy frenemy relationship between them, though they generally work well together with their complementary tech.

Len and Hartley: They seemed to get along okay until Hartley reformed (though there was a flashback to Len being callous to him in the early days), but Len's been low-key hostile to him ever since. There must be an underlying reason for it, because Len didn't really treat other reformed Rogues that way (even if he wasn't always thrilled with them) and I think he just doesn't like Hartley.

Len and James: In Len's spotlight issue, he said James was one of the few Rogues he liked. Which is interesting because I've never seen a particular bond between the two of them, but Len did accept James back quite readily after a long period of reform (which even involved fighting against the Rogues as part of the FBI). James doesn't seem to have much fondness for Len though, and has cheerfully tricked and pranked him a few times.

Mark and Sam: They seem to have gotten along okay, though they didn't interact much.

Mark and Digger: They were generally quite friendly to each other, though Mark didn't have the nicest things to say about Digger after he'd died. The Rogues can be like that with each other, however, so it might not really mean anything.

Mark and Mick: They didn't interact much but got along well when they were on the same side. However, the two of them have frequently been on opposing sides (or at least one was reformed and one wasn't), so there may have been ongoing tension between them from the time of Mick's first stint with reform. But things were fine between them when Mick rejoined the Rogues after that, so it seems like there was no lingering grudge.

Mark and Roscoe: They didn't interact much but seemed to get along okay. In Blackest Night, Roscoe's zombie (which wasn't actually him, but had his memories) spoke flatteringly to Mark and reminded him that at some unspecified point they'd once planned to take out Len and run the Rogues together, which was a bombshell never addressed again. They probably would have turned on each other if the plan ever came to fruition, but there was either mutual respect or some intended backstabbing going on there.

Mark and Hartley: They seemed to get along reasonably well back in the day, though many Rogues were frosty to Hartley after he reformed and Mark was probably no different. Hartley didn't seem as though he had fond feelings for Mark after reforming, as he was pretty apathetic when he saw Mark distressed in Iron Heights and potentially exposed to a lethal virus, and Hartley was as cold to the Rogues when he 'returned' undercover as they were to him. It's not clear whether Hartley knew Mark was part of the Rogues who'd killed his parents and framed him for it, or if he'd even blame Mark for that since Mark wasn't directly involved in the scheme. But it's fair to say that they didn't get along well from at least the Johns era until Flashpoint.

Mark and James: They got along well before Crisis, and socialized in a friendly manner up into the Waid era. But things had probably changed by the time James joined the FBI, in which he was working to take down the Rogues (including Mark). James rejoined the Rogues in the aftermath of Rogue War and interacted civilly with them, though he was openly contemptuous of their behaviour in Countdown and we later learned that he was there undercover. I think it's likely James didn't have particularly warm feelings for Mark or most of the others, and perhaps there was just too much bad blood before James was killed and the universe soon rebooted.

Roscoe and Mick: They didn't interact much but seemed to get along okay; they looked cheery when chatting during a flashback in Mick's spotlight issue. However, Mick's narration stated that he got along with Roscoe even though Roscoe talked over everyone's heads, so it seems probable that Mick tolerated him more than liked him.

Roscoe and Digger: They got along well before Crisis, but haven't been shown interacting since. Both have done personality 180s since Crisis, and I can't imagine either of their newer personalities would like or even tolerate the other, so they probably wouldn't get along and likely avoided each other. Roscoe did attend Digger's funeral, though.

Roscoe and James: In the Silver/Bronze Ages they never actually interacted with each other on panel, though they must have met behind the scenes because James was at Roscoe's funeral and complained about his sense of humour. (We've also seen a flashback of them together from a comic published later.) And James spoke dismissively of him after his death, calling him the least of the Rogues. It's difficult to say what their relationship was, though James clearly wasn't impressed by him, and probably wasn't thrilled with Roscoe when his mind-whammy was undone…and Roscoe died soon after, so they never spoke again before the universe was rebooted. It doesn't seem to have been a good relationship, but we've seen so little of their interactions.

Roscoe and Hartley: They seemed to get along okay before Roscoe died, but things took an ugly turn after he'd returned and Hartley had reformed. Roscoe tried to goad Hartley into killing a presidential candidate and then tried to frame him for it, and did so by being a homophobic asshole to him and Hartley understandably thought he was a monster. My opinion, based on what Roscoe said in the issue, is that he was trying to seriously rile up Hartley to accomplish his plan and might not have actually believed the stuff he said…but it doesn't change that he said and did it, and was in fact acting like a monster. What's interesting is that later (in the Johns era) Hartley was lamenting having no living family left, and Roscoe told him "You still have family. Me for one." Which was probably cold comfort and Hartley wouldn't agree, but it's still very interesting that Roscoe would say that.

Roscoe and Sam: Roscoe was generally quite friendly to Sam, but Sam tricked him into losing a million dollar bet and left him to die in a booby-trapped prison, so Roscoe resentfully helped Barry ruin Sam's plan. Roscoe secretly swore to get payback, but never seems to have acted on it and Sam screwed him over again by later stealing his loot. For whatever reason, Sam was the Rogue that Roscoe chose to inform of his death, though he also had a scheme to blow up the Rogues if they messed with his revenge plan (which they did). They had a weird relationship, but I think Roscoe liked Sam more than the other Rogues.

Sam and Digger: They were generally great pals, despite some hiccups here and there -- Digger was a dick to Sam in Gotham and then tried to hypnotize him into doing his dirty work. Sam was pissed enough that he tried to get a cop to shoot Digger dead. But otherwise they got along quite well and worked/socialized together even outside the Rogues and Central City, and after Sam died his costume and tech ended up in Digger's hands and he used them to commit incognito crimes. The other Rogues were furious (not knowing who was doing it), but Digger thought Sam would appreciate the joke, and he was probably right.

Sam and James: They mostly got along okay, although Sam robbed James of his loot once, and all the Rogues of the late Bronze Age tended to snarl at each other for some reason.

Sam and Hartley: Their relationship didn't seem particularly notable until Hartley was hospitalized for a nervous breakdown, and then Sam and Digger went in disguise to free him. Both were somewhat dismissive of Hartley, claiming he wasn't a great pal or anything, but the Rogues sometimes do that to downplay their feelings (perhaps to seem like tough guys?) and they went to a fair bit of effort to spring someone they didn't really care about. They obviously cared.

Sam and Mick: They seemed to get along well before Mick had a traumatic experience and left the Rogues. We don't know what Sam thought about Mick's reform.

Digger and James: They generally got along in a friendly jocular manner before Crisis, though one time Digger disapproved of James trying to unmask an apparently-deceased Flash and kicked him for it…they ended up squabbling and yelling at each other. After Crisis, Digger turned his back and suggested that the Rogues should let James fall to his death. Later, after Digger had been away from the Rogues a long time and James had reformed, Digger repeatedly begged him for money and James completely cut him off, calling him a "mooch". So perhaps relations soured after their time apart.

Digger and Hartley: As noted above, Digger and Sam went to some trouble to free Hartley from lock-up. That aside, they didn't have a good relationship; Digger criticized Hartley's battle tactics and Hartley thought poorly of Digger's intelligence even before Crisis, and we know that Digger made a lot of shitty comments/jokes about Hartley's sexuality. And Digger was openly hostile when he saw Hartley at Linda Park's funeral. Post-Crisis' Digger's personality is obnoxious enough that he'd definitely get on Hartley's nerves (and vice versa, to be honest), so it's no surprise they don't get along.

Digger and Mick: They seemed to get along well, though as noted above Mick could get along with almost everyone. Digger may not have appreciated Mick's stints of reform, but he still accepted the situation when Mick sometimes returned to hang out with the guys, so maybe it didn't even bother him. And Mick was willing to lend him money (likely knowing he wouldn't get it back) after James cut him off, with a bit of gentle chiding about getting his shit together. They appear to have had a good relationship.

James and Hartley: Best friends, at least when they're being written properly; we'll leave Countdown out of this because we all know how OOC it was. James was friendly with Hartley when they were both Rogues (it's not known whether he knew Hartley's sexuality then, but he might have), and he accepted Hartley once Hart had reformed and become a pariah to the Rogues and was openly gay. Later Hartley was accused of murdering his parents and James refused to help him when he was on the lam, but it's very possible that was due to the general mind control James was under, so it's debatable whether that was really his fault. Ditto for James basically press-ganging Hartley and Mick into the FBI. Either way, all those shenanigans aside, they're very good friends who like, accept, and trust each other. James also left his will and data for taking down the Rogues to Hartley, and told him that the information was hidden from everyone else by invisible ink.

James and Mick: They've never seemed particularly close, but later in life developed the commonality of reform or semi-reform and both are quite easy to get along with. As stated above, James drafted Mick and Hartley into the FBI and that may not have been their choice, but James was supportive of Mick's mental health and ensured he received plenty of psychological support…which was definitely necessary. He also encouraged Mick to train and remain physically healthy, so overall he was very considerate of his needs and well-being. They weren't close after the two of them went back to the Rogues, but that may have been because Mick sincerely wanted to return and James was (apparently) undercover. Overall they had a friendly and supportive relationship, despite some occasional bumps.

Hartley and Mick: Their relationship before Crisis wasn't particularly notable one way or another, but in the Johns era they were firm friends and allies during a time when most of the Rogues neither liked nor accepted Hartley. Hartley was a fugitive at the time, and Mick was the only person willing to help him with no questions asked. They later worked well together at the FBI, but weren't close when Mick rejoined the Rogues.

--Post-Flashpoint--

Digger and all other Rogues: Only Digger and Len have had significant interactions, and that story inexplicably depicted them as not knowing each other. However, a later issue showed Len offering Digger a place with the Rogues via text message.

Roscoe and all other Rogues: He's only interacted with them in passing, although Len tried to kill him again so it seems their relationship hasn't improved :>

James and all the other Rogues: He's only interacted with them in passing (aside from Axel), and he mind-controlled them into doing his bidding so there's probably no love between them and him. A past version of him also worked on the Legion of Zoom with the Snarts, but they were cool towards each other.

Lisa and Len: For a while she blamed and hated him for giving the Rogues metahuman powers, which left her seriously injured/ill and her boyfriend trapped in the Mirrorverse, but those problems are over now and the two are fairly close despite occasional differences. She opposed his regime during "Year of the Villain", but still cared about his safety and his conscience, and she broke him out of custody after his defeat. For his part, Len made a lot of mistakes during the New 52 and was selfish at times, but he went to great lengths to keep her safe and healthy during her illness.

Lisa and Sam: They almost got married and were very close through many struggles, but eventually broke up and she's been cool towards him since. He reacted by becoming a sullen hedonist, and their breakup is probably a big part of why he's not been with the Rogues for a while.

Lisa and Marco: He admired and respected her and wanted her to be team leader before seemingly falling back towards Len's leadership. They treat each other with mutual respect, though he put her life at risk in Rogues Rebellion when he'd had enough of the ongoing shenanigans. He later returned to do the right thing and help her and the others.

Lisa and Mick: He's frequently been surly towards her as he is with everyone else, but clearly cares about her and treats her with about as much respect as he has for anyone.

Lisa and Hartley: The first time they interacted on panel, Lisa got revenge on him for being a "traitor", but later that was forgotten and he went to a fair bit of trouble to keep her safe from danger. His narration stated that she'd supported him and helped him come out to the other Rogues before the New 52 began, indicating that they'd been good friends, so I don't know if they ever reconciled the 'traitor' thing or he simply let it go.

Len and Sam: They had/have something of an uneasy relationship because Sam was dating Len's sister, and Len was responsible for tearing them apart and nearly getting her killed…and after getting through all that, Lisa and Sam broke up and left Len somewhat in the middle. But Len has much better relations with Sam than he had with Roscoe before Flashpoint, and they mostly treat each other with friendliness and respect. But there's obviously anger and tension at times too.

Len and Mick: An extremely hostile relationship throughout most of the New 52, though Mick calmed down somewhat in Rebirth. All the meta Rogues were angry at Len, but Mick took it to another level of resentment and bitter violence. That's mostly behind them now, but Mick's still somewhat surly and it's probably a legacy of what happened to him. Len, on the other hand, didn't really take much responsibility for what he did to the other Rogues who weren't Lisa, and it's not surprising his relationship with Mick wasn't good. However, when the Sage Force was sorting out Mick's trauma it (or his mind) conjured up 'Len' to talk sense to him and calm him down, and by "Year of the Villain" Mick proclaimed that Len was his best friend, so obviously the situation significantly improved over time.

Len and Marco: They formerly had a terse relationship due to resentment about metahuman powers, though they seem to be on good terms now that it's behind them. Marco can be moody though, so that's probably a challenge at times.

Len and Hartley: They haven't interacted much, though Hartley saved Len from dying in an accident and Len seemed happy to see him -- but he also wanted Hartley to let him go, so maybe he was just buttering him up. Hartley was working as a hero at the time, so he wouldn't budge even for old times' sake.

Marco and Sam: Their relations have ranged from friendly to antagonistic during times of stress, but overall they treat each other with respect and have a brotherly relationship. They seem like actual friends.

Marco and Mick: Mick's intense anger issues and Marco's brooding moodiness was kind of a match made in hell and probably why they've never been close. They seem to get along okay now that Mick has mellowed a lot.

Marco and Hartley: They haven't interacted much.

Mick and Hartley: They haven't interacted much.

Mick and Sam: Mick was surly to everyone for most of the New 52, though his relationship with Sam in Rogues Rebellion was surprisingly positive and friendly. Sam tried to talk sense and the brotherhood of Rogues to Mick, who mostly dismissed him but still sacrificed himself to save the others, showing that Sam had gotten through to him. Mick later turned up alive, and was afterwards restored psychologically and physically by the Sage Force, which calmed him down significantly. But Sam turned into a jerk after he broke up with Lisa, and Mick yelled at him for it and finally got through to him somewhat, indicating that both of them listen to the other and are the better for it. Their relationship has never been warm and fuzzy, but it seems like there's enough respect to get the other guy to be better, and for both to accept advice.

Sam and Hartley: They were friendly during their interactions, which makes sense because Hartley was helping to save Lisa.

Question 2: I swear I saw a post from someone on this platform, I don’t know if it was you or somebody else, but they basically said something along the lines of: “You’d think that it would be out of character for Barry to leave his villains in Iron Heights, knowing how unethical the prison is and all. But the more I thought about it, the more I agreed that no, it isn’t actually that out of character for Barry.” That thought has been stuck in my head ever since, and as someone who doesn’t really know Barry’s characterisation all that much (a crying shame, I know), I just wanted your opinion. Is this statement true? I’d like to hear your reasoning for if you agree or disagree.

This is a bit of a tricky question, because Iron Heights was introduced and got most of its panel time when Barry was dead, so he wasn't around for the 'heyday' of its development when Ashley Zolomon and Wally West grappled with what was going on inside. We don't know what his position would have been before Flashpoint, though I don't think he would have liked it. Classic Barry was very much a law and order type (a cop, obviously), but that was in the days when prison brutality generally wasn't addressed in comics. We do know he was horrified by what was done to Clive Yorkin, which was an experimental and arguably cruel treatment of a prisoner.

But there's no question that Iron Heights has been around since Barry came back, that there's been abuse shown on-panel since then, and he hasn't really done anything about it. He was shocked by what happened to Axel in solitary and seemed like he was going to rescue him, but that just kind of petered out and it was Kristen Kramer and David Singh who did the work to stop Wolfe. I do think that's out of character….to a point. There's no question he's a cop and someone who follows the rules more often than, say, Wally. But that can also work both ways, and overt cruelty and harsh punishment isn't following the rule of law either. I think Barry wouldn't lose sleep if Wolfe took away prisoners' material comforts and privileges, even if we think that's wrong, but IMO he should find a beaten prisoner or a prisoner with his prosthetic arm removed unacceptable and take action. He's a person who has shown mercy towards reformed and even completely unrepentant villains before, and he's not perfect, but nobody is.

TL;DR I don't agree with how Barry's Iron Heights plot was handled.

[tillythemenace]

RTTE SEASON 5 REVIEW

I wanna say a lil something about this season since it’s the one where I left the fandom for (and mostly I watched it drunk so I legit didn’t remember shit) but so far I liked it. I thought I was gonna hate it, but apart from the OBVIOUS reasons it was kinda bad AKA Viggo being back, Krogan being a Ryker 2.0, The BIG TRAITOR REVEAL, and mostly filler season, I liked the moments in between.

I’m a firm believer that RTTE should’ve ended at the end of season 4 (yes there was some loose ends but if they wrote it like an actual finale it would’ve worked just fine) cause the last 2 seasons feel like thing were just shoehorned in, like they forced so much stuff to happen cause they had 2 spare seasons and it shows… like S4 FELT like a finale: Viggo and Ryker die, Dragon Eye destroyed, Berserkers secured, allies secured, The Edge secure, Hiccstrid established, Krogan functions just fine as a cameo and nothing else, etc etc

Again my enjoyment for RTTE comes down mostly from my love for Snotlout (he really is the best character and MVP of this show dont @ me) and the twins, Everyone was still tolerable, we got the GAYEST EPISODE TO DATE, Snotlout legit telling TB he loved him like?! Jesus 😭🙌 My hc is that after that EP, Snotlout and Fishlegs started dating cause holy shit after that they DO ACT LIKE BOYFRIENDS (legit they act like HICCSTRID before they “started dating” and even AFTER they started dating) and I love that, Hc, they became boyfriends after TB and somewhere in S6 they broke up idc idc

I like Astrid and Hiccup for the most part ngl, they were not TERRIBLE, (apart from that ONE EPISODE where they tried to gaslight me into hating them but then I used my brain to figure out it was pointless forced drama and they truly did nothing wrong), Hiccup making a second Dragon eye was… a choice…… like he’s a GENIUS don’t get me wrong, I can suspend my disbelief that he would be capable and I’m sure he did know how to make one himself, but idk another continuity error, like are u telling me now that there’s 2 Dragon Eyes and BOTH need to be obsolete by the end of this show???? Ok…

Even Stoick and his relationship with Hiccup AND ASTRID, I enjoyed that SO SO MUCH, it was really in character. Toothless as usual is a non character sadly…..

Heather and Dagur were super underutilized sadly, the more I think about it? The more I think Dagur should’ve stayed dead (AND I ADORE HIM) and Heather taken over, I DIDNT LIKE THAT HEATHER WAS NOT THERE WHEN THEY WENT TO SEE OSWALD! Like Wth Dagur and HICCUP? Fuck u for keeping it from her. It should’ve been her, literally replace any scene Dagur has w Heather and nothing will change. As much as I ADORE DAGUR AND I DO ADORE HIM, between him and Heather? Idk make them BOTH a team instead of separating them OR actually use them in a meaningful way. Cause another thing that will never not piss me off was HEATHER HAVING THE LENS AND NO ONE FUCKING NOTICING IT UNTIL NOW! Felt so HARD like a retcon and the writers wrote themselves into a corner, it feels so much like they just also forgot she had it for the first 4 seasons and decided that it was suddenly important for the plot which was so cheap imo and infuriating. (Since season 3, Heather being w the riders is not a bad thing but in S4 we barely see them still after she left, either make her super important and use her - something you HAVE for all the show actually- or don’t, cause she feels like nothing but a plot device now and not a character)

Now I know the BIG TRAITOR REVEAL was coming (I didnt watch it the first time cause I hated it) so I just wanted to actually know how they played it out and it was not AS BAD as I remember, but I was just mostly laughing at the absurdity lol when they made it so obvious by then it was so funny.

Now Viggo being alive is smth I’m still meh about, I dont love when shows do that, BUT I enjoy his character too much to be mad tbh, I have NOT WATCHED SEASON 6, like EVER, not even back then, so I have no idea what to expect with him. I am EXCITED.

Mostly this season did feel like they were resetting and rewriting so much stuff to make things make sense, and most of it was filler, which fine I could watch like 1724983 hours of the gang just doing NOTHING, so filler? Is not a bad thing for me. That’s why I liked it. It was not as bad as I remember. Some things sure were so ABSURD but funny. Made NO SENSE, but I already know a lot of it is not canon so I’m not mad anymore. I just enjoyed it for what it is.

I’m excited to FINALLY WATCH SEASON 6! I never have and honestly my refound love for RTTE has me super excited to watch it for the first time. 🙏