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mare-sanguis · 17 days ago

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The queercoding in Sangcheol's and Jeongwoo's relationship

Let me preface this by saying: everyone is still allowed to see them as whatever they want (a work related relationship, best friends, close friends, soulmates, lovers, and and and) but I think most (if not all at least here on tumblr) can agree it would be ignorant if we completely overshadow just how much queerness there is.

This analysis is brough to you by this thread (why JW is snow white and why SC is the prince) and @thedevildeer latest post. Its not structured and really just a ramble so excuse me if it might sound a little confusing at some points.

Let's start by looking at it through a heteronormative kdrama lense below the cut

How often do most kdrama fans watch a drama, see the lead man and the lead woman and think "woah, they would look so hot as a couple" even when the drama isn't a romance? Quite often, that's right. That's because most M/F leads are designed to be shipped even outside of the stereotypical romance genre. If it's a crime drama, thriller, mystery etc. Where the focus should solely lie on the plot they will still most likely try to create an M/F duo so most kdrama fans will have something to latch into. It has happened so many times that people dropped a non romance drama because it had no M/F couple, but people apparently want it so badly because how else can they enjoy a non romance drama, right? And kdrama directors/writers know this- they see and read the reviews and work with them; That's why in kdrama land M/F ships are still the norm, still seen as the most canon- even if there is a 2nd ML who has insane chemistry with the 1st ML (perhaps even more than the FL, cuz let's also face it in a lot of kdramas women are written flat)

When the ML is near the FL, everyone immediately interprets all kinds of thoughts into it, even worse when they go as far as to look at each other and hold eye contact, when they worry about each other, support each other, visit each other or are just having a work related conversation. They dont need to confess their love or kiss for the viewer to know they are in love*

Those are all valid points for shipping, that's obivously not the issue- The issue starts when they genuinely can't see the FL as her own character, when they can't seem to understand that men and women can be platonic friends, the issue continues when the 2nd ML appears whos got way more chemistry with the 1st ML or even takes the place of where the FL should be. Its then where the issue peaks- their relationship will automatically treated differently (2nd ML get potentially hated by the M/F shippers even) and it creates rift within the fandom, its shipping and arguments about queerness as a whole (discrediting that queerness is a large spectrum) by cishet fans

Suddenly, if it's M/M those actions I mentioned earlier dont seem romantic anymore, suddenly it's just a simple bromance (and while the term per se isnt homophobic, in these circumstances it sure sounds like it which is why I personally dont like it and rarely use it), best friends caring about each other because homies are homies. ("why can't men stay friends?" we all know that argument) *if they don't confess to each other outright, don't kiss each other, then they aren't i love (last part especially is targeted towards specific BL fans who only think a relationship is valed if they kiss and maje out)

So, this out the way let take a look at SC, JW, HS and BO approach (intentionally or not) on queercoding and the importance of a strong man-woman friendship.

First, let's look at tropes commonly (but not exclusively) found in queer media or media that tries to imply queerness and the similarities they share with SCJW:

Found family (the most common trope in queer media, especially the media that emphasises on realness, as found family serves as a safe space for queer characters when they arent accepted at home)

A strong opposite gender friendship or a friendship that defies traditional views

Color coding (mostly a warm and a cold colour, often times its blue and red)

Language coding (do the characters say they are queer, do they use specific terms, do they confess or declare their love for each other through something deeper; just what are they saying?)

The character design (this is not just about how they look but the desgin as a whole: background story, family, friendships, career, driving force, are they representing something (like a specific color, a flower); what was the creators thought process while creating them)

How do they express love around the person they ador (for example, men express love with touches while women often times use words and actions)

Broken friendships (because old friends dont accept)

Then of course we have common tropes found in all media highlighting love

Clothes sharing

Intense eye contact

Personal space

Lingering

Caring

Hurt/Comfort

Touches

And what do we have here? That's right. Black out s well as SC, JW and HS fit right into the common tropes and the queercoding tropes and yet we see some totally discrediting its validity to exist within the universe because god forbid both JW and SC are queer or viewed as such cuz they both were with women prior and they can't possibly be one of them queers... right?

HS is a really well written female character who's got nuances, a great backstory with a fair share of suffering and the additional nosiness which makes her so special. She is sweet and caring to everyone who seems nice in her eyes. She cares about JW's mother (prior to knowng he's JW's mother so thers no point in saying she does it cuz of JW), cares about Suoh and is genuinely interested in his hobbies. Her character takes care of everyone because she's a med student (you can take a med's job away, but you can never take the job out of a med). This is what her character is about- taking care, worrying. Her purpose in Mucheon was (as we know by ep.13) to find what shes looking for, to find her way back. She is by no means not connected to eithe JW and SC but her story is canonically detached from both JW's and SC's- it takes part in a different pace, in a different setting and through a different lense and most of it happens off screen or throug her observig the people. We rarely get any of her POV's, unless it's either around Suoh or Geonoh. The other times when we do get a POV of her is when SC and JW and in the same frame. Then she is postitioned as the onlooker, the one who observes. When she is alone with JW she gets almost no POV, even less that focuses on her feelings towards him. But the most important thing I said already: her story is detached from SCJW. She grows alone unlike SCJW who grow together. She is that friendship JW needed to show him a part of humanity that got lost with his fake friends. She is to represent and tell that you do not need a large group of friends to feel at home.

Then there is JW. Beautifully written full of nuances, a tragic yet amazing written backstory- easily to read as a story of someone being queer. A big group of friends, a beautiful home with loving parents and then you got the catalysator which sets the whole plot moving. While for JW it's murder, abuse, gaslighting by friends and people he thought were family, prison and finding new hope in humanity through one person- how can one not look at this and think "yeah it's somewhat reminiscent of someone coming out in a conservative country with traditional family values"? Family and friends ditching before the person can even stand up for themselves, people spreading venomous lies, all the guilt trips, that person shutting themselfs off retreating into their own little world. JW was obviously never meant to be read as such and some even might find this part weird, but it's undeniable he has those classic queercoding tropes. He finds true meaning in humanity again through HS and SC at the same time, yes, but it is SC alone who stands by his side the whole time- every single day. JW feels the safest around SC, falls asleep in his home (therefore also in his presence) and gives in to being taken care of only when SC is around, he also laughs at his dumbs jokes and makes sure to catch his reactions when he is sassy (handing out flyers scene or the scene at the scrapyard). JW is meant to not grow alone but together with someone else- and that someone is SC. who he shares the exact same pain with. He sees the good in people- he sees the good in SC so he keeps on pursuing him even when he would reject him. Because he can see himself in him. Because he feels he's different- just like him. (And isnt it like: Queer people know someone is queer when they see one?). We cannot forget him being a metaphor for Snow White which imo solidifies the queercoding in him even more and how he steps in to save SC and then again to support him by beating up those debt collectors. (Also, just a random little side note: I think it's funny how he's either loved or hated, there was no inbetween. BM and MS hated him, they were eaten up by jealousy; BY, NG, DE and the twins loved him (also again, random side note to me any anyone who cares: it's so easy to read the feelings GO felt towards JW prior and post time skip as more than just friendship tbh which again, adds to the queerness layer))

And then there is SC, just as complex and full of nuances like JW. Having an almost identical tragic backstory to hm even- losing the love of his life. While hes story is way more difficult to decipher as queercoding, his character is most definitely not. He is portrayed as rude and rough towards any criminal and at the beginning of the story we genuienly dont know where we stand with him with this ever fluxuating personality. He is hurt, struggles, doesn't even seem to know himself very well, has seen a lot and he also doesnt trust anyone (as seen when he immediately clocks BM as suspicious when the review the CCTV footage) except JW. How come he trusts him more, even after he had accused him of the hit and run accident, but is side eying everyone the moment the incident with the mother happens? When he should have more trust in his own people then defending and caring for a guy whos accused him of causing the car accident. Even when he finds out JW apparently killed the girls, his actions towards him are differet than the actions we see him taking against the guy he chases after in the beginning. We see him falter and struggle even more in the manhole when he's threatening to shoot JW, we see it again when they are at the shed and JW is reinacting the murder scene- he is reluctant. Even when using violence against JW. Because, just like him, SC feels they are the same. And it doesn't even take much time for him to switch side- we can see him questioning everything onwards from from episode 4 during their first team dinner. And when he switches side he suddenly becomes so soft and caring- completely taking on the role of a possible love interest in both drama, romance and fairytale. Because he has seen the good in JW, saw the same suffering, this unfair treatment. He is a character not meant to grow alone but together and this togethes is only JW. JW still has HS by his side but in SC's world there was only JW who shows him all aspects of what it means to be a good human being. It's through him he grows.

Their shared journey:

To quote Leo Buscaglia again "Too often we underestimate the power of a touch, a smile, a kind word, a listening ear, an honest compliment, or the smallest act of caring, all of which have the potential to turn a life around."

And isn't this what SC's and JW's shared bond is about? How they grow with and around each other- thanks to each other.

The little things SC does to make JW more comfortable, to show him love still exists? He takes him home without thinking twice because he's worried he might get sick when he could've taken him back to his house. He dresses him up in his clothes, let him sleep on his couch, in his blankets, gives him something warm to eat and drink (the glass of milk will never stop making me sob), showers him in touches and shows him warmth through them, always reaching after him because he's afraid something might happen to him, watches out for him, observes his reactions and waits for him. The little things JW does to SC- giving him a reality check that not everything is as it seems, graduately bringing back his old personality, stays by his side.

It's how SC brings JW's smile back and how JW brings SC's smile back. Its how SC not once but twice declares his worries, adoration and love towards JW: once when he's so worried sick JW might get hurt so he installs that app on his phone and the second time when they say their "goodbyes"- those words are so easy to read, so full of love. The "if you move" highlighting just how much he wants and hopes JW to stay in his life a little longer. It's longing and we can clearly hear it in his voice when he says "I'm sure you can" right after the monologue and then tilts his head. It's how JW doesn't know how to approach him after this, contemplating what to do and then goes on for the hug first. This is JW's way of showing his love.

And yet, despite it all there are still people who only see it as a bromance. Those who think JW and HS will end up together because they are at the same uni, study the same. And are a man and a woman. If either SC or JW would be a woman, no one would even bat an eye to think they aren't in love- no one would even come up with the idea to even ship JW and HS. If one of them was a woman, every little gesture would be seen as romantic, betting on it the drama would perhaps even be a lot more popular as well as the ship. It's so disheartening to see how many deny an obvious queercoding between them just because they are men and for the sake of a straight, not well manouvred, ship because again apparenlty many kdrama fans don't dare to ship queer.

We know Black Out/Snow white must die is a fairytale because it very much is just one of many iterations of a snow white and exactly because is one of many nothing is impossible and queerness is allowed to exist within it.

#so sorry it's so long and so unstructured #i was going through a lot when i wrote this haha #but i also love to write these specific analyses so yippe ig #honestly tho the more i think about it the more they are canon in my eyes (from an analysis standpoint alone)#might edit this post later but i wanted to get this all out if my head first before going to sleep #ignore all the grammar issues for the time being my head hurts 😭😭#백설공주에게 죽음을 #black out #snow white must die

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talenlee · 1 year ago

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Hanamusa, Explained

There is a nonzero chance if you follow me on tumblr, you’ve seen the term ‘Hanamusa’ attached to something I shared. It’s probably also some super cute art of Delia Ketchum and Jessie Teamrocket, and you may wonder what is going on and also, why is there so much good art of this.

Hanamusa as a term derives from the Japanese names of the characters – Hanako and Musashi. If you’re into shipping name structures, Hana-Musa implies that Hanako is the seme and Musashi the uke, but I don’t think that holds for all use cases of the type of terminology. It’s a ship. It’s an AU ship, as in an ‘alternate universe’ ship, where the two characters are presented in a context outside of the normal context of the anime presentation of them.

The Hanamusa ship as I understand it is set at some point after Jessie and James stop chasing Ash around, and Jessie settles down into a relationship with Delia. There’s tension about her history with Ash and the confusion about finding Your Personal Villain dating your mom, but mostly it’s about showing a sweet domestic life between two characters you know very well in a format I kind of see as like, Comedy-Sabot Romantic 4koma. Like, Hanamusa content is funny (and it is VERY funny) but it doesn’t need to be funny, because the main thing it’s about is showing these two characters and their relationship as they do cute things together.

It’s why people watch shows like K-On basically.

As for where this idea comes from, (EDIT: Slightly wonky wording here, I should have phrased 'this current fandom push' - I don't have any reason to believe Mai INVENTED the ship, just that when you go looking you'll wind up at her work) it seems to have its genesis with the work of one Kiana Mai, who developed this ship some time ago. Kiana Mai is also an extremely skilled artist, and one of those skills seems to be focus, creating these extremely clean-line excellently structured scene vignettes with no unnecessary content in them but also no need to rocket along. It’s amazing, engaging work that uses every part of the small format amazingly well. Which makes sense because one of the things Kiana Mai does is storyboarding work for Disney animated TV shows, a task at which I am sure she no doubt excels.

What I think is the most interesting aspect of Hanamusa, to me specifically, is that it manages to combine three things I don’t actually care about, in a way that doesn’t interfere with something I have unexpectedly strong opinions on. I do not watch Pokemon, and I have not shed a tear for Team Rocket and Ash Ketchum wandering into the sunset. That is a show that is not for or about my interests and that is okay. Indeed, imagining that it should be about what interests me is baffling. I think if I stopped watching a show twenty years ago, I have lost all right to act like I’m entitled to expect it remain the way it was all the way back then.

But I do have opinions on Jessie and James’ character voice. Not their voice acting – I mean, I know for a fact they’ve had to change over time and no voice actor should be obligated to kick it in the same role for what could be their entire career. I mean the way they talk about things and the words they use and kind of emphasis they put on words when they talk. About the way they voice their ideas, or the way they express who they are in the way they talk to one another, that stuff. It’s about affordances and persona, about the kind of people you project being by what words you choose to use and the affect when using them.

It’s why when, if a picture of a character is underneath it, you can read some dril posts as being ‘appropriately’ voiced by a character, even if it’s describing a candle situation that Francis Crozier did not have opinions on.

Jessie has a voice.

Jessie, in my head, is someone capable of moments of tenderness and friendship that is normally overwhelmed by an incredible confidence in ability she does not have and mere reality will never be given permission to infringe on it. Jessie is unassailably unstoppably sure of herself, thoughtlessly stupid in a way that doesn’t mean she is stupid, but which exists in a context of someone who has relentlessly pursued excellence in her job which is also the equivalent of being a late night 7/11 manager. She is the Girlboss that is Gaslighting herself into thinking she has something to Gatekeep.

Delia Ketchum by comparison is a very nice piece of wallpaper. Every appearance of her in my mind is someone Very Nice who is Very Patient and Very Supportive and has managed to keep literally all emotionally challenging conversations from happening around Ash, which can be perhaps easier when you remember that he, too, is an idiot. I don’t know how Delia Ketchum talks, but I do know that there are ways that Delia Ketchum does not talk.

This is interesting! It’s interesting because it presents a character where I am very sure I know what she does do when she does it, and a character about whom I can only be sure wouldn’t do some things. It creates a character space, and it creates expectations of affect and performance within that space. Ash and other characters show up as well, but because they get to interact with this already-defined space, you get treated to this really lovely kind of resonance. Would Ash call Jessie ‘dad’? Maybe, to bug her. He was good at being a twerp. Wasn’t he? I mean I remember it that way, he seems to work out that way, but… how would I know?

I know more of this AU where Jessie is studying to be a Pokemon Doctor and Ash wears glasses than I do of the source material any more. And if you’re wondering ‘hey, do Jessie and Delia ever meet in the source material?’ Like, yeah, for a few seconds. What, the point is creating something new.

If you want to check out Hanamusa stuff and read the comics, I recommend going and clicking on the hashtag on tumblr.

Check it out on PRESS.exe to see it with images and links!

#Anime #Media

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plansexualford · 3 months ago

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As a long time billford truther (this blog may be new but I’m not.) I’m so happy to see the revival of a ship that was once so misunderstood.

Below is my not so little rant about my frustrations with “but it’s toxic” people and the disservice it does in undermining not only fans’ intelligence but lowkey the writing of the content we’ve been given. Also, a bit on how fandoms in general seem to dismiss the use of ships (unless canonized/written directly into the story) as a medium to tell complex, and sometimes uncomfortable stories.

The frustration I have towards the people that act like they’re high and mighty for saying “billford is ironic, you shouldn’t actually ship it cause it’s toxic” or some variation of treating it as a joke or untouchable that piss me off for multiple reasons.

1. We know, you are not smarter or superior for acknowledging a fact that is crystal clear to see and is literally the most common way that dynamic is explored. Like wow, congrats on providing such valuable insight that none of us saw before. The only times I ever see it not explored in that way has maybe been through pre-betrayal interactions and what ifs.

Not to say there are NEVER clear misreadings (not aus/or fixits/etc. just poor understandings) of their characters that are devoid of what makes them—them, but I fear I truly dgaf and just wince and move on.

2. It is in my opinion, infinitely worse (edit: and honestly a sign of immaturity) to want the allusions to a toxic relationship to be jokes instead of simply accepting that a relationship did happens in canon, whether it happened platonically or romantically (though there is more subtext that 12 y/o me would have never I’d ever imagined reading as an adult for that latter recently.) It should be taken seriously, given that the book clearly wants us to, otherwise the allusions in the book and thisisnotawebsitedotcom.com would not exist in the way that they do. Why would you rather something like that be a joke instead of allowing yourself to sit with and accept discomfort?

Ultimately billford is twisted, it’s horrifying to imagine, it’s a tragically awful train-wreck we can’t look away from. After all that, Ford’s resolve is honestly healing. And if we see interesting, complex stories/art/musings to tell from this dynamic, what’s wrong with that?

Lastly, the source material is a Y7-V Disney Channel show that premiered over 10 years ago, we’re (I assume mostly) adults now. Unclench.

P.S. I’m being unserious when I say this but “toxic yaoi/yuri ” is apparently trend and y’all can’t handle a yellow triangle demon and a grown man from a Y7-V series? Smh. Take every variation of that phrase out your tumblr bio immediately, you don’t deserve it.

#billford #book of bill #book of bill spoilers #my first official fandom post ever #lowkey scared this will cause controversy #oh well #i can delete this #ahahahahahahahaha

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sevensoulmates · 6 months ago

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Hi I just wanted to say I was on twitter and saw someone discussing and sharing your meta posts and I was genuinely intrigued and curious because you guys are obviously so devoted to the buddie couple and it's really endearing. And I was just really interesed about this perception of the couple you guys seem to have because is so different to the other side of the fandom I'm actively interacting with. I'm obviously a B/T shipper and only got into the fandom because of them but I'm really loving the show (currently I'm on season 5). I'm just curious about how is it that you guys see buddie as romantic when I think their interactions are clearly platonic, they obviously have a deep relationship, an intimate friendship but no more that that.

Again, I'm not trying to hate I just wanted to ask because it looks like the buddie shippers are settling themselves for disappointment just waiting for them to go canon. You all are obviously loyal fans and I think that's lovely but I honestly just don't see the show writing Eddie as queer now and I really think Tommy is here to stay (I think there's too many signs pointing to this fact like the buck actually episode and the old guy named Thomas). Again I'm not here trying to hate because I think you guys love the ship genuinely but I just wonder how is it that after all the things the shows portrays you guys are still rooting for buddie. Please feel free to ignore my question if I'm annoying you, I really don't want to come off as rude I was just really interesed in the topic.

There are a boatload of reasons why I and many other people ship Buddie. Most of them are far too long to get to in one ask like this because Buddie have had 6 years worth of material to sort through and it would just take far too long.

Long story short: in the same way that Buck was confirmed bisexual over the course of a single episode after years of many people saying Buck could never be anything other than straight, Buddie could be made canon in one single episode and it would be accepted just as easily even though it's been years and a lot of people are still saying they could never be together.

It's TV. The writers can do whatever they want. The second they decide to start bringing in more explicitly romantic things, people will suddenly start "getting" it.

To be more precise: I think it's easy for people to see a ship like Bucktommy and latch onto it because it's very clearly, explicitly queer. It's a lot harder for people to believe in or "see" ships where a queer couple hasn't done anything explicitly romantic like kiss or hold hands, etc. It's unfortunately due to heternomativity and the sad death of the slow burn. I can't really do anything about either of those things.

For me, the primary reason I ship buddie is because of the deep special bond and obvious family they've built over the years that feels different from every single other relationship they've had with literally anyone else on the show. That includes Tommy, Shannon, Abby, etc. You can view it as platonic if you want, that's anyone's subjective opinion.

You seem like a sweet person, but you're also coming into the show with a bias towards Bucktommy, which is fine. They're what brought you to the show, they're the ones who initially intrigued you, and they're also the only ones currently explicitly queer. I get it.

I am going to be so honest with you: I think the show has been writing both Buck and Eddie as queer men for many many years. But just like how Buck was only allowed to confirm it this most recent season, they haven't been able to confirm it for Eddie just yet. I could write essays and essays about how Eddie is so obviously deep deep in compulsory heterosexuality and has been almost since the beginning, but it would take too long. There's plenty of posts I and others have made all over tumblr and on my blog.

Slow queer burns featuring characters that aren't introduced in the first 5 seconds as queer are almost non-existent, they very rarely happen in popular media, and because of that it's almost impossible to ship something without someone coming at you saying "they don't see it". Fact of the matter is that Buddie is one of the easiest ships to "see", if you were looking at a man and a woman, but they're not. I can't really convince people to see what they don't want to see.

If you're curious about the specifics, I'd encourage you to go through my blog/meta or other buddie-positive blogs on tumblr to find many talented and intelligent individuals who will have a lot to say on why they believe in buddie.

When it comes down to it, I don't think the fandom at large is ever gonna believe it until they see it. That's kinda just human nature and the state of how we all consume media right now.

But once the show does go there, they're gonna be like damn can't believe I didn't see that until now while the rest of us sit here like "we've been trying to tell you this whole time."

In the meantime, I'm enjoying Bucktommy for what it is, for however long it lasts, and I'm gonna enjoy buddie just the same, regardless of if they go canon or not, or how long it takes.

#911 abc #speculation

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qiu-yan · 2 months ago

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3 6 7 11 16 20 25

bro is trying to get me killed lmao /s

choose violence ask game

3. screenshot or description of the worst take you've seen on tumblr:

this shit

6. which ship fans are the most annoying?

gonna be honest here, the single most annoying part of the MDZS fandom is that one hyperspecific sort of wang and xian stan who insists on shitting on not only the other characters, but also other wang and xian fans who ship the characters in ways they don't approve of. this kind of stan can not only be relied on to have the worst possible takes on everyone ranging from jin guangyao to jiang cheng, they can also be relied on to harass other wang and xian fans simply for putting wang on the bottom. fun times.

7. what character did you begin to hate not because of canon but because how how the fandom acts about them?

surprisingly, no one yet. sometimes i feel the hater urge to dunk on the morally-pure version of wei wuxian that the diehard wei wuxian stannies have collectively hallucinated, but i still find the wei wuxian from canon to be quite compelling.

11. number of fandom-related words you've filtered

the "canon jiang cheng" and "canon jc" tags. everyone stfu

16. you can't understand why so many people like this thing (characterization, trope, headcanon, etc)

"morally pure wei wuxian who did nothing wrong ever." to me, wei wuxian's hubris, his unique capability for inventing new kinds of cruelty, his failure to think of the consequences of his actions, his tendencies to run away from negative feelings, and his ultimate failure to protect the people he was trying to protect, are what make him a compelling character to me. these flaws in parallel with his courage, kindness, stalwart moral compass, and genuine love make him interesting to me. so i don't quite understand fans who instead insist on erasing all the morally grey and highly interesting stuff he did in favor of insisting he did nothing wrong ever.

20. part of canon you found tedious or boring

not quite what the question is asking, but i found the actual wang and xian romance in the original novel to be a bit lacking. mainly because (as other people have said already) a lot of the romantic development happened when lan wangji was drunk. at the very least, i wanted to see lan wangji's reactions to his various drunken adventures once he sobered up the next day, and i'm rather disappointed we never got to see that.

furthermore, on wei wuxian's end, it did kind of feel like wei wuxian was using this exciting new romance to distract himself from his past problems, even though it also seemed like he didn't actually know all that much about lan wangji. the only version of the romance that makes sense to me is the one where wei wuxian was already into lan wangji (subconsciously or consciously) in his first life; otherwise, wei wuxian falling in love with lan wangji during his second life, when he's yet to process any of the shit that happened in his first life, feels too much like him running away from his problems with a guy he believes will validate all his decisions. meanwhile, on lan wangji's end, i feel like the novel just did not give us a lot to work with in regards to his character. so it feels like, if you want to be a fan of lan wangji, you have to do a lot of the legwork of building up his personality yourself.

what also disappointed me a bit about wang and xian, as well as lan wangji's character arc itself, is that lan wangji is never really challenged on a moral-dilemma level in the same way that many other characters are challenged by the story. how do i explain this...alright, i'll put it this way. i've been brainrotted about madohomu (madoka magica) since i was in middle school. and that's partially because i know for a fact that, if homura was put in the trolley problem and had to choose between [killing 5 strangers] and [allowing madoka to die], she would choose to kill those 5 strangers to save madoka. but after reading MDZS, i realized i legitimately did not know what lan wangji would do in such a moral dilemma. because MDZS equates [being morally righteous] with [supporting wei wuxian], lan wangji is never placed in a dilemma where he has to choose between sacrificing wei ying and doing something the audience would think of as unforgivable.

these are just my own hyperspecific tastes, though.

25. common fandom complaint that you're sick of hearing

gonna put my hater hat on for a second, but i kind of roll my eyes at the jiang cheng haters complaining about how jiang cheng stans keep posting in the "canon jiang cheng" tag. dude, if it bothers you that much, just block the jiang cheng stans. then things will be peaceful in your favorite tag again.

#yanyan speaks #yanyan answers #yanyan haterpost

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outlanderfandomfollies · 5 months ago

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Every so often I just have to say: "Really?"

I rarely post anymore about Outlander fandom nonsense, but recently I checked in on the fandom and saw that the two "alternate reality" fandom factions were continuing to post away, still lost in their respective conspiracy theories.

It's hard to believe that after all these years, and countless debunks of the "receipts" for their far-fetched and utterly impractical conspiracy theories, that they are STILL lost down their respective rabbit holes.

Of course, nothing I write will influence anything they think, but sometimes I just have to say, "Really?"

And so once again, I am saying "Really?" Not just for me, but for the small contingent of Tumblr Outlander fans who are not living in an "alternate reality," and who perhaps need to know they are not alone.

In my recent fandom check-ins, I caught up on what had been happening in the past month. Below the cut are my thoughts about two of the topics that rocked the fandom in the past month, and how those living in their respective "alternate realities" perceived them.

The Ship is STILL Lost at Sea

Not surprisingly, the most farfetched recent drama in the fandom came from Shipperville.

THE SHIPPER "SLEUTHS" HAVE BEEN BUSY: As is par for the course for them, some shipper "sleuths" went searching through video footage of a June 8th Edinburgh concert crowd to find a small SC "breadcrumb" that they believed could keep their ship afloat.

As a result of their search, they found evidence that C had given S some hugs and--from what shippers perceived--at least one kiss on the mouth. Looking at the very blurry enlarged clips being shared on Tumblr from the Paramore - The Only Exception concert video, it seems to me that S & C hugged, and if they exchanged a kiss, it appeared to be a kiss on the cheek.

But even if it were a kiss on the mouth, it was a quick peck in greeting at most. The speed of the the SC "hug & 'kiss'" is evident when you look at the two gifs below. The first gif on the left shows the SC "hug & 'kiss'" at a "normal" speed. The second gif on the right shows the same scene in slow motion. The SC "hug & 'kiss'" fly by at "normal" speed. If you blink, you'll miss it.

Finally, as seen below, C also hugged someone else (Sophie?) and then John Bell, and might have even given John a kiss in greeting. Yet, the shippers didn't think that meant anything more than what it was--just a greeting between good friends.

Once again shippers ignore the fact that actors tend to be touchy feely people. Consequently, it is common for actors to greet each other with hugs and kisses--even kisses on the lips! 👄😱😉 But that ISN'T evidence that S & C are "secretly married." 🙄

Closet Crew Smugness

SPARE US THE SMUGNESS: What never fails to amaze me is the smugness of the closet crew, given their own history of believing in conspiracy theories. But the irony was apparently lost on them when they were clucking about those poor misguided shippers who were writing their own "romantic fanfic" regarding the SC concert "kiss."

The smugness is particularly problematic for the subset of the closet crew who used to be long-term shippers themselves, especially the ones who were caught up for years* in SC conspiracy theories.

Eventually, these former shippers saw the light, and left the SC conspiracy theories behind--only to get immersed in the closet crew conspiracy theories!🤦🏻‍♀️ Talk about "Out of the frying pan into the fire."

THE TWO GROUPS AREN'T SO DIFFERENT: Although the closet crew conspiracies IMHO are slightly less out in left field than the SC conspiracies, they are still similar in that they are impractical and improbable, and ignore (or rationalize away) a lot of evidence that contradicts and/or debunks their "receipts."

CONFIRMATION BIAS: Like the SC shippers, confirmation bias clouds how the closet crew perceives any new information about S. Case in point, the recent brouhaha over the May 29th photos in Just Jared that show S holding hands with a woman.

CALL THE PAPARAZZI: Naturally, the closet crew assumed S and/or his PR team set up a pap walk for S in order to bolster his heterosexual image.

However, that assumption overlooks the fact that there was absolutely nothing positive about these photos in terms of PR for S.

CUE THE FANDOM "SLEUTHS": In my opinion, S & his PR team would not have chosen this particular woman for S to do a pap walk with because they would have known that the fandom "sleuths" would quickly comb the Internet and discover that the woman in the photo was LM.

Furthermore, S & his PR team also had to have known that the sleuthing might reveal some unsavory information about LM that many fans would be unfortunately all too ready to believe.

For instance, some fans convinced themselves that they had found evidence that LM is an "escort." Yet, certain other fans think that some of the escort stuff doesn't pan out if closely examined, because it appears that lots of escort sites have pictures of beautiful women who aren't actual escorts. In addition, apparently at least some of the photos that are supposed to be of LM don't match in terms of tattoos.

I tend to side with the skeptics here because some fans had the same reasons to make similar assertions about Gia that later turned out to be FALSE.

Still, in general, everyone agrees that there seems to be something a little sketchy about LM. It is those sketchy qualities that would NOT make a S & LM pap walk something that S or anyone on his PR team would want to set up.

If anyone called the paparazzi, it seems to me it would either have been some third party who recognized S, or it would have been LM (who might have something to gain by being seen with S).

S reportedly turned off his tags as soon as he learned about the photos. Most likely that was because he knew he would be harassed by the fandom. Which, once again, suggests this is NOT something he willingly set himself up for.

In fact, there is evidence that S is wary of paparazzi seeing him with women. In a DEUX/U podcast, Paige W. said that she believed that S backed out of a date with her because of his fear of her interest in posting paparazzi photos.

A SIMPLE EXPLANATION: The simplest explanation (and the only one that doesn't involve a conspiracy theory) is that S saw LM for a no-strings-attached hookup. Perhaps they had had encounters in the past, and hence the hand holding. (Or perhaps it is easier not to get separated walking in a city if one holds hands.)

Either LM called the paparazzi (because it could benefit her), some third party recognized S and called the paparazzi, or a paparazzi was on the street for something else, recognized S, and took the photo.

LET'S NOT FORGET THE "PINEAPPLES": And given what the fandom recently learned about "pineapples" (mentioned during a podcast with LH, who apparently had dated S), it appears that S just might be a "swinger" (big surprise--not). So it makes sense that he would be into no-strings-attached hookups.

A WEAK RATIONALE: To me the hookup explanation of why S and LM were seen together makes more sense than the highly questionable belief that this was a "fake date" that S, a little known actor (even Just Jared had to explain who S was for people who didn't know), wanted to have photographed so he could keep up a long "history" of costly, "fake dates" with women in order to hide his "sexuality."🙄

LET'S NOT FORGET "BRIDGERTON": And BTW, regarding the closet crew belief that Outlander fans would not accept a gay actor playing Jamie Fraser, remember that Jonathan Bailey, who plays Anthony in Bridgerton, has done a bang up job in both seasons 2 and 3 playing a heterosexual man in love with a woman, Kate Sharma (Simone Ashley).

Many of the same kinds of people who are drawn to Outlander are drawn to Bridgerton, and casting Baily to play a heterosexual romantic lead apparently didn't affect ratings. In fact, Bridgerton's season 2 ratings were reportedly higher than those for season 1.

Again, I believe S, who said in a 07/24/18 Logo interview that he isn't gay. But even if it turned out he were, and it came out, true Outlander fans would go right on watching.

The rationales the closet crew come up with for their conspiracies seem to me to be nearly as silly as the reasons the SC shippers have for why they believe TPTB have "forced" S & C to "hide" their marriage and their 3-5 "boos" from the world for years.

IT'S HARD TO CLIMB BACK OUT OF THE RABBIT HOLE: Unfortunately, both "alternate reality" groups will most likely continue to believe in their conspiracies--at least as long as Outlander is on the air. (Although I believe some of the hardcore shippers will continue indefinitely, much like the Twilight Robsten shippers.)

Because if you stay down the rabbit hole too long, it is very difficult to climb back out.

I also think the reason some of these "alternate reality" fans stay down their respective rabbit holes is that they have developed bonds with their communities and don't want to lose their friends. They also don't know how to continue being a part of the larger Outlander community without being a part of their respective "alternate reality" communities.

I guess it is easier to stay down a rabbit hole you know than to find out what's outside of it.

Originally posted 06/20/24; edited and slightly updated 06/20/24.

____________ *Full disclosure: I lightly shipped SC for about 2 months back in 2015, but quickly realized they weren't a couple. These gifs/images were modified from their sources: the "Really?" gif, the Ship in the storm image, the Fandom "Sleuth" gif, the Nancy Drew gif, the Sam in pineapple swimwear gif, the Occam's razor gif, and the "That's rubbish!" gif. These gifs/ images that were NOT modified from their sources: the Smug gif, the Just Jared photo, the Bridgerton gif; and the Alice & the rabbit hole image. My paparazzi meme: The paparazzi image was slightly modified from the source image. My gifs: The "Out of the frying pan" gif was made from this video; subtitles were from Forever Dreaming Transcripts. The first and second "S & C at the concert" gifs were made from the Paramore video; the third "S & C at the concert" gif was made from a section of the Paramore video found on this post.

#outlander fandom #shippers #closet crew #conspiracy theories #just jared photo #s & c concert “kiss”#my gifs #my edited gifs #my edits

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dorkynerd23 · 1 year ago

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The Nuzi Hate Is Ridiculous And Just Saddening/Defending Nuzi.

Alright, so...let me just start off saying that this'll be the last time I'm going to discuss anything drama related, especially what goes on in the Murder Drones Community. Honestly, at least over here on Tumblr, the fandom isn't that bad and awful and is not that much of a trainwreck as it is over on the toxic bird site, but this is something that just NEEDS to be discussed in general. This situation and just the insane amount of drama and fighting that's been happening with the MD fandom lately has honestly been tiring and has taken a toll on me. it honestly has, if I'm gonna be honest, it's been draining and I just don't wanna talk and deal with this anymore. I just wanna move on from this situation and continue obsessing over and watching my favorite robot show and not deal with any of this unnecessary and childish drama anymore!

Anyways, for those who don't know, there's been a lot of arguing and fighting in the Murder Drones fandom as of lately, at least on over on Twitter, but it's been happening over on things like Tik Tok, even YouTube and it isn't uncommon exactly, but it is something that's gotten worse in as the show continues to grow in popularity. The main discussion and arguments when it comes to shipping in the Murder Drones fandom are between Envy (N X V) and Nuzi (N X Uzi) there's other ships in the fandom people like, but Envy and Nuzi are two of the most popular ones and the ones who are often the topics when it comes to shipping wars. I've already discussed and talked about the craziness and drama that's been happening with the fandom with some fans harassing and going after the VA's, people getting on them for their opinions, trying to switch things around to fulfill their egos, ect. But, the main thing I'm going to be talking about with today's topic is Nuzi and the amount of unnecessary hate it's gotten and how I think it's unfair, because it's seriously gotten worse and worse. And if you don't know what the ship Nuzi is and aren't very familiar with the ship or MD itself as a whole, basically, Nuzi is the pairing between Serial Designation N and Uzi Doorman from Murder Drones, who are two of our main characters in the show. Now, people have been shipping these two since the pilot and have enjoyed their interactions and at first in the beginning of the show it seems the show was hinting at the two being just good friends but as time went on, the show started to develop and explore the two and things started to change and the show has started hinting at both N and Uzi starting an eventual romance down the line and hinting at some romantic tension going between them. Now with Uzi, it seems she's definitely starting to fall in love with N and gaining feelings for him, but she seems to downside her crush on him and it's pretty one-sided since meanwhile with N and his side of things, he seems clueless and isn't aware of Uzi's feelings and it seems that he only sees Uzi as a friend and nothing more beyond that and the show hasn't hinted on how N feels about Uzi right now..of course, it's too early to tell for where the relationship between these two will go and it's too early to have N and Uzi fall in love and start an relationship but there is potential and room for them to start a relationship eventually, there's room to dive more into their dynamic and relationship and potential to have a good romance between the two.

Now, as I've stated..Nuzi has gotten an extreme amount of hate lately, some misinformation and rumors have been spread around in the fandom to the point it's caused people to start attacking others who are fans/love the ship and started going after and harassing fans who make fanart of the two, anits and especially diehard shippers of both Envy and Thuzi, (but it's mostly Envy shippers) keep on throwing around and saying the excuses on how Nuzi is a "P*oship" and how N is an adult and Uzi is a minor and how they're siblings, or say how, "Uzi has a crush on Thad!" "N has a crush on V and even admitted it!!" And they'll just use EVERY excuse in the book..they'll turn shit around and do whatever they can to make people feel bad and shitty for simply even adoring and liking Nuzi and finding it cute, hell it's even gotten to the point where some fans started going after others for liking other ships in the fandom like Vizzy/Pink Lemonade, and just any ships involving WD X DD. I'm not kidding, I've seen fans and others argue that Nuzi wouldn't work out because both N and Uzi are different robot species and how on N has killed and slaughtered Uzi's people. Apparently because both N and Uzi can't make a good pairing because they're apparently, "boring and uninteresting" and one is a WD and the other is a DD, but because both V and N are DD's and because they knew each other in the past that automatically means something..? Seriously?? I'm not joking when I say some of these fans are downright ridiculous and childish, they'll do whatever they can to stop people from liking ships like Nuzi and shame people for even enjoying it and make childish hate posts on said ship constantly, and it's overall just so hurtful and ridiculous, Dude. And it's people like them that make this fandom look awful and downright toxic, it's people like them that make others think that everyone in the fandom is like this when that's far from the truth!

I'm honestly really sick and tired of how this fandom mistreats and bullies other people just for simply liking different ships, people have stated that they feel hurt and feel like they can't like certain ships without them being attacked and shitted on, they feel like they can't like something they enjoy without others dragging them down and being hated on. It's ridiculous how some of these fans see Nuzi as the most awful and horrendous ever made and it needs to be forgotten forever. It's ridiculous and laughable how some of these people point out and rant on how much they hate Nuzi, only to make it the only thing they talk about and mention 24/7, some of these people literally just whine and complain about how they're not a fan of said ship. I mean, it's totally fine and okay to not like certain ships and you don't have to love and enjoy the same things as others do, but you don't need to make hate posts all the time and bash others for finding comfort and liking the ship they like, you don't need to make rants 24/7 on how you despite said ship..it just makes you look so damn childish and just unbearable, like okay..you're not a fan of certain ships, okay? JUST MOVE ON!! WE GET IT, just stop harassing and making us feel like shit and horrible people, stop making us feel terrible for loving Nuzi, just move on and just don't interact with us if it bothers some of you so damn much. I mean, it's gotten so bad that some have left the MD fandom because of the toxicity and childish behavior from some of these fans. Just please stop and be nice to one another, it's not right how some of you will harass and do whatever you can to make people feel shitty for enjoying what they love and trying to paint them out as these awful individuals. Like seriously, I just cannot stand shipping wars and I really despise them, shipping wars are such a waste of time and are just an excuse to harass and cause unnecessary drama and it just results with people getting hurt. And I've said this many times before and I'm gonna say it again, shipping shouldn't be the ONLY thing to focus on when watching and getting into any piece of media. There's much more to love and look forward to, there's more to appreciate and shows have more to offer than just ships, SHIPPING AIN'T EVERYTHING.

One more thing I'm gonna add and talk about before we finish up is that..I don't even understand and get the hate Nuzi has received, I mean I'm fine and totally alright with people seeing them as friends and respect their opinions. But, what's with some of these people just disliking and harassing people for seeing the two more than just friends and wanting them to be something more? I've seen people argue and say that it's either too cliche and just call both Uzi and N, Starco 2.0. And it's just ridiculous how some of these fans and antis act whenever there's moments with Uzi and N together or when the show is hinting at a possibility of the two being an item someday. Is this seriously how these toxic fans are gonna act whenever Nuzi have any moments together?? Whether it's romantic or not? It just seems the idea of Uzi and N being something more just burns these fans up inside and just frustrates them to the core. Nuzi ISN'T what you guys think it is and it's more than that, nothing is being rushed and forced and nothing is being written poorly between them either, and they AREN'T another Starco. Also, Nuzi isn't just here for fanservice, these moments we've gotten with Uzi and N were already planned out and worked on, MD has been in the works and in production since about 2020, wayyy before the show even came out and before the fandom was even a thing. Uzi and N were already planned and hinted at being something more and having something special between them, they were always meant to have something deeper and important and the show seems to be going the route in wanting to develop further into Uzi and N's dynamic and their relationship as a whole. The scenes we've gotten for Uzi and N have always been planned out and if Nuzi happens and becomes a thing in the series, it's because Liam wants it to be and planned it that way, NOT BECAUSE OF FANSERVICE!! It's fine if you're not a fan of the pairing and just don't find any interest in it, you can love and like what you want. But please stop acting like it's a big deal and something to get angry about, because it's not..it's not worth it. It's not worth throwing tantrums and acting over the top about, just move on and ignore.

Anyways, this is all I've wanted to talk about when it comes to this Nuzi hate and the drama that surrounds the ship when it comes to the fandom, I've just wanted to give my thoughts. Also, everyone in the Murder Drones Community, just PLEASE be nice and kind to one another and respect each other's opinions. ♥️ You guys are better than this and getting into arguments and shipping wars aren't worth it and are just plain silly, doing any of this just results in people being hurt and affected, getting into shipping wars aren't worth it and they're are better things to do. Please, be nice to each other and if you aren't a fan of certain ships in the show then that's fine and alright. Just move on and scroll away and respect other's feelings and opinions, you don't have to like a ship that's popular or what many seem to like! Just don't be a dick and treat others like crap and make hate posts just because you're not a fan of said ship, just please move on and keep moving forward! Plain and simple, just ignore and move on with your day, mistreating and hurting others just isn't worth it.

#murder drones #liam vickers animation #glitch productions #small psa #important #vent post sorta..?#shipping wars suck #shipping wars rant #murder drones shipping stuff

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musicalmoritz · 2 months ago

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i’ve been following you for a little while because i’ve been considering getting back into TBHK. it was one of my strongest fixations but i was totally put off by the fandom’s reception of one part of the story until i dropped it entirely.

i thought i’d ask to see if the fandom has changed at all since i was last in it, and you seem really good at analyzing media: what’s your take on the amane/(possessed) tsukasa sa theory? i won’t argue regardless of what your opinion is! i’m just curious to see how the fandom is treating the story now. i miss the series alot ngl

Have I finally made it as a TBHK fan creator now that I’ve gotten an ask abt the SA theory?? Jk jk, that was a terrible joke I’m sorry guys

Before I get into this I wanna say thank you for being so respectful, people tend to have very strong feelings in this theory (for good reason, it’s a serious subject) and that can lead to pitchforks whenever it’s brought up. I’m going to try to discuss this as neutrally as possible but I will warn you that I’m very biased. I love Tsukasa as a character and the Yugi twins as a sibling duo so as much as I try to see both sides, I simply don’t want this theory to be true and that plays a large role in how I perceive it

TW: This is going to contain more mature themes than my usual posts. Talk of incest, abuse, sexual assault, sex, trauma, PTSD, and a very brief mention of lesbian fetishization

Starting off with how the fandom as a whole talks about it, people are very against it nowadays. When the anime first came out it was super popular, but now you can’t even mention it without someone telling you never to bring it up again. I have only posted about it once and it was a joke about Tsukasa and Teru both having allegations made against them (tho the Teru ones are way less common and only made by fans who want them to be true bcuz they hate him or ship him with his brother). So far I’ve strayed away from going in depth with my thoughts on it, writing this feels like I’m swinging a bat at a hornet’s nest. If your problem with the fandom was that they denied this theory, then I would continue to stay away from it. People on here are more open towards it than TikTok tho so if you still want to get back into the fandom, I would recommend staying on Tumblr. Someone made ONE post implying it on TikTok recently and the entire fandom was shitting on them for like a week. Those instances are rare, I like the fandom overall, but it has its toxic moments and areas just like every fandom

Okay now onto the theory itself. I’m not going to pretend I don’t see where it comes from, there are some scenes in the manga that are drawn and worded weirdly. Most notably the scene in the Picture Perfect Arc where Mei wrote “Brother Lover” on Amane’s face made me wonder if they were trying to imply something. I have since learned that other translations don’t have the incest implication, but it’s still odd to me that they allowed that in any version. Still, he just looked kind of annoyed as opposed to getting flustered like he would have if something was going on with him and Tsukasa (the way he gets flustered when his feelings for Nene are brought up). So I viewed that scene more as a dark humor joke from Mei, I don’t think it was meant to imply anything serious between the twins

There is another scene in that arc, however, when Nene sees Tsukasa clinging to Amane and Amane does get flustered. He starts blushing and says “um…we were just…” and doesn’t really finish his sentence. This made me raise an eyebrow, but I also wouldn’t take it as confirmation that there’s anything romantic or sexual between them. It could very much be viewed as Amane being embarrassed. I feel that the strongest evidence for the incest theory comes from this arc, but that’s only if you want to run with the scenes I mentioned. I also find it strange that people never use these scenes as evidence, only panels that are drawn kind of weird. Fans seem to be stuck on a lot of early scenes with this theory which weakens its substance

For the record, I will not be analyzing the scene from the anime intro. That has already been debunked, the shadowy figure wasn’t Tsukasa, it was a representation of Hanako’s guilt. Although I disagree with the theory, I’m trying to be fair to the campaigners by debunking the stronger pieces of evidence

The strongest evidence for this theory comes from the art, which is just as important to the story as the writing. With manga and graphic novels, the art tells half the story. It shouldn’t be overlooked, so I understand how some fans lean into it. Look back at the official art I put at the top of this post, it’s weird. Hanako is leaning over Tsukasa while Tsukasa holds his chin/lips and arm. They’re posed like a couple. We would never see the Minamoto brothers posed like that. In other scenes, we see Tsukasa touching Amane’s face or holding him from behind. They’re very touchy with each other, more-so than the other siblings in the series

I have two reasons for not taking these type of scenes/arts seriously in a romantic sense. One is that Tsukasa is simply an affectionate character, and Hanako is the same way. I think it’s more part of their behavior than being specific to each other. Secondly, if it’s intended to be taken in an incestuous way then I genuinely believe it’s fan service. That’s one part I don’t deny, AidaIro have certainly given us reason to believe the twins are like the Property Brothers. I just don’t believe it has any place in the actual story or their dynamic. Fan service is common in TBHK and sometimes it veers into problematic territory. Just look at the scene where Hanako possesses Nene to assault Aoi, and then Kou gets flustered by it and can’t help. A random lesbian fetish scene that is never brought up again and plays no role in the story other than moving us from A to B. I have also heard that there’s incest in some of the other works they’ve made, so it’s not a reach to assume they’d throw in a little fan service for the Yugi twins. How seriously you want to take those scenes is up to you, personally I will continue to deny it until we’re given undeniable confirmation

Back to the twins just being affectionate, we see them act that way with lots of characters. Tsukasa is clingy to Sakura and Mitsuba too, sometimes very suggestively. That doesn’t mean he’s into them. I will say that Hanako is most notably clingy to Nene, someone he’s in love with, but we see him get close and friendly with the other characters too (he sat on Kou’s side and booped his nose during their first meeting). And Tsukasa is the one who initiates their physical affection 99% of the time, Amane’s been receiving it since early childhood so him copying Tsukasa’s behavior makes sense. Romantic relationships in adulthood are determined by the way we interact with our families as children so him repeating these actions in a romantic context doesn’t indicate anything abnormal. In fact, it’s a very realistic portrayal of how our love languages and attachment styles evolve over time

And keep in mind, they’ve been that way since they were three years old, it’s just the way they interact with other people and each other. Tsukasa is a very childish character too, one who has very little concept of personal space and boundaries. So him being a little too clingy with his brother might not mean anything. Again, you could read into it if you really wanted to, but the way he interacts with Amane is nothing out of the ordinary. It aligns with his usual mannerisms, if it were specific to Amane then he wouldn’t act that way with the other characters (Amane was also clingy with Nene before he fell for her). Think of it this way, you don’t see Akane holding Teru’s hand or confessing his undying love to Nene. Characters are going to act differently in their platonic relationships vs. romantic/sexual, and we don’t see that difference with the Yugi twins

A difference we do see with them, however, is that Tsukasa isn’t physically aggressive with Hanako the way he is with everyone else. He never attacks him or tries to hurt him, in fact every time he sees him he gets overjoyed and tackles him in a hug. He has no problem hurting him emotionally and mentally, but we never see any physical aggression between the two. This leads me to believe that the SA theory is invalid, it doesn’t line up with how Tsukasa treats Hanako currently or in any of the flashbacks. If anything sexual took place between them, it would have had to be consensual, because the more solid evidence backing this theory focuses on Hanako’s side of things. He’s very possessive of Tsukasa, and he doesn’t experience a trauma response when they’re touching normally. If it’s an intense scene and Tsukasa is telling him horrible things while touching him, then he freezes in place and starts crying. But when Tsukasa is just hugging or clinging to him, he only gets embarrassed. Hanako does show some signs of PTSD, but that trauma is rooted in him killing Tsukasa. If the trauma were anything sexual, we would see him experience those same trauma responses he displays in violent scenes when Tsukasa touches him in any context. At the very least, we’d see him get way more uncomfortable than being mildly annoyed

(Note: I am aware that not everyone reacts to trauma and PTSD the same way. I do not have any trauma of my own so I am going off what I have heard throughout my life from others sharing their stories. I am in no way trying to invalidate anyone’s experiences, no matter how you react to your abuser your feelings are valid and I hope you get the help you need)

Another common piece of evidence used is that Hanako is hypersexual. I believe this is a serious misuse of the term, hypersexuality is so much more than being a pervert. People who are hypersexual usually think about sex all the time, they engage in excessive sexual behaviors and even think about it in completely normal contexts. This is a common response to many types of trauma, not just sexual. It’s a way for people to gain back control after they’ve been abused, or sometimes it’s a problem that arises from porn addictions or a weird relationship with sex. Even if Hanako were hypersexual, that wouldn’t necessarily indicate SA. He has canonical trauma aside from that, and it could also come from the pent-up frustration of being a middle schooler for 58 years

This is another situation where we have to account for the context. You can’t just take one element of a character’s canon personality and run with it, that’s the leading cause of mischaracterization. You have to consider how that behavior lines up with their other traits. Hanako is an allosexual boy who has been 13 for literal decades. Middle school boys are already one of the horniest species on our planet, it’s an awkward time when you’ve just learned those feelings exist and what they mean but you’re not emotionally mature enough to do anything about it. That usually goes away in the next few years when teens start getting into relationships. Now imagine that feeling staying with you for fifty-eight years. That’s over half a lifetime of being stuck in a transitional period. You have so many strong feelings, but you can’t do anything about them. Not just because of maturity, but because there’s no one to do them with. It makes sense that you wouldn’t know how to act when you get your first girlfriend (not excusing any of his weird behavior btw, frustration is not an excuse and it doesn’t make the way he treats Nene and Aoi okay. But it’s still important to understand his reasons, especially in this context)

I also want to note something I don’t see pointed out often, which is that most of the major scenes of Hanako’s pervertedness occur when he’s talking to Kou. TBHK has a very realistic portrayal of male friendship imo, and this is one of those examples. Having a girlfriend isn’t the only thing Hanako’s missed out on, he also hasn’t been able to make any friends his own age. He’s trying to get Kou to engage in “locker room talk” as a way to bond with him. Whether he’s trying to convince him to share his own preferences, or just wanting to mess with him, it brings them closer in a way. One of the main ways Hanako expresses affection is by annoying people, but I do think part of it is because he wants to be able to talk about hot girls with his only male friend. Sadly, he got stuck with the only middle school boy who respects women

We as a fandom tend to focus on these scenes as “omg Hanako’s a pervert,” or for people that ship him with Kou it’s “aww he’s teasing his boyfriend,” but I think the purpose is more-so to build a realistic friendship dynamic. I find it funny that the fandom as a whole leans more into the teasing explanation whether they ship Hanako and Kou or not, it’s funny to me that we all automatically go with the gay interpretation. But Hanako often uses jokes to cover up his deeper feelings, he acts like he doesn’t care when he actually cares very deeply. So him playing up his pervertedness in an attempt to make friends seems very on brand

My last piece of evidence against this theory is a bit silly and a lot of ya’ll aren’t going to want to hear this but Hanako is most likely straight

*the crowd boos me*

I know, I know, I love the bi headcanon too and I think it makes sense, but unlike with some of the other characters I don’t think it has a place in canon. He acts overly friendly with Kou sometimes but if you’re going to assume they’re queercoded, you have to assume the same about Aoi and Nene (both affectionate friendship that look a little queer sometimes). Shipping aside I read them as a purely platonic duo, if there are feelings on either side then it’s more likely Kou since he’s bisexual. Lots of people point out the scene where he flirts with Kou as a girl, and I agree that was gay af but I kinda think he was just trying to mess with him. And keep in mind that the first thing he wanted to do as a girl was look at girls changing in the locker room (yuri yuri lesbian yuri wlw gay gay lesbian yuri)

This isn’t to bash anyone’s headcanons btw, I headcanon Hanako as bisexual and I do ship him with Kou. I’m just saying that I wouldn’t bet my money on him being intended to be bi in canon. In my post about possibly bisexual TBHK characters I included him as an honorable mention, I just haven’t seen enough substantial evidence so far to believe he was intended to be interpreted that way

I’m aware that sexuality isn’t the biggest obstacle for Tsukasa and Amane, but it’s a relevant mention. If Hanako doesn’t like men, I doubt he’d want to be with his brother of all men. Even if he liked men that would be a terrible option. AidaIro have also confirmed in one of their official arts/doodle skits that Nene is Hanako’s first love, which further leads me to believe nothing happened between him and Tsukasa. You don’t get with your sibling if you’re not ride or die about it. And as I mentioned before, anything that happened between them would have had to be consensual in order to be in-character and line up with the evidence surrounding the incest theory

Lastly, I do believe the love between the brothers is somewhat genuine. It’s horribly toxic, Hanako left Tsukasa in some sort of void for decades and now he continues to keep him around as a yorishiro despite knowing it makes Tsukasa miserable. He loves him so much that he can’t let him go even when it would be good for Tsukasa. That’s selfish, it’s toxic, and on Tsukasa’s side things aren’t much better. He adores his brother but he also resents him for everything he’s done. He hurts him emotionally and attacks his friends. And, of course, Amane killed Tsukasa. Not exactly Brother of the Year

But through all of this, you can’t deny that the love is there. Fans who believe Amane hates Tsukasa kind of miss the point, Tsukasa wouldn’t be Amane’s yorishiro if he hated him. He loves him dearly but in a very complicated way. Adding romance or lust to that love frankly doesn’t make sense to me, it’s adds an unnecessary layer that doesn’t line up with the rest of their dynamic. It feels like a “yes and” to their story. I have read analyses that explain both sides, and ultimately I remain against this theory

I hope this helped you understand my perspective!! I tried to be fair to both sides but as I mentioned, I’m very biased. This is a very uncomfortable subject so it was difficult to write about, but I like tackling more complex topics. I don’t block people who believe this theory unless I dislike the way they talk about it, some people insist it’s canon to the point of hating Tsukasa for it or saying the series is bad. But for those that are more open-minded about this theory, I don’t mind interacting with them. In general though this is something I try not to think about lol

#tw inc*st #tw abuse #tw sa #tw sex mention #tbhk #toilet bound hanako kun #jibaku shounen hanako kun #jshk #ask #ask me anything #hanako kun #amane yugi #tsukasa yugi #kou minamoto #nene yashiro #yugi twins #aidairo #yugi brothers #theory

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eveledoze · 7 months ago

Note

Which tadc ship do you like more? Funnybunny or Showtime?

oh well long-post comes-

okay i did a little searching, since i often don't understand such ship names. if google doesn't lie to me, then the first one is Pomni/Jax, and the second is Pomni/Caine.

damn, I thought funnybunny was the name for Ragatha/Jax 💔💔

i don't ship Pomni/Jax but i find the pairing cute. i don't sense any special dynamic between them, Jax just makes fun of her the same way he makes fun of everyone else because he's a jerk (i say this lovingly). when i discovered that this pairing was the most popular in the fandom, i didn’t really understand why, since i wouldn’t say that there was anything particularly interesting going on between these two. I think the dynamics between Jax and Ragatha were more distinct, which I immediately noticed, they had tension and i really liked it x) but then, after thinking about it a little, i realized why Pomni/Jax is the most popular ship (I guess?? it's just my supposition) — people combined two of the most main characters, one of whom is a badass-tumblr-sexyman, and the second is an angsty ordinary person with whom people could identify themselves. anyway i just find it funny that so many people like this ship. i saved fanarts of these two a couple of times because i thought they were cute. to be honest, kitsch's (@ bunnyjesters/ nuzipilled) works probably influenced my opinion about this ship the most. arts with Pomni and Jax from kitsch is probably my favorite among all the other fanarts for this couple, i think that he well preserves their canon behavior and characters despite the fact that the pairing itself in the cartoon is non-canon, and their interactions in his art feel quite realistic for me! i love how kitsch draws them and how he uses gestures and body language to show their emotions, it's very, very cute. so yeah, i don't ship them, but i do find some of the fanart of them cute. i drew this a while ago, so have this if it will make you happy 🌸

now Kaine/Pomni...ahmmm, to be honest, i was even more surprised that this is probably the second most popular pairing in the fandom? :D apparently it really comes across often and haha, i don’t understand it... i’ve never been interested in the dynamics of student/teacher or employee/boss, in my understanding there can be no romance in their relationship, maximum platonic, family relationships, understanding each other. Kaine is very quirky and doesn't seem like he's interested in romance (i generally like Kaine/Moon, but i really think Kaine is just confused by Moon's behavior since he's not interested in her romantically x)). it's more like he treats all the guys in circus like friends, colleagues or something like that. so yeah, it's weird for me to see romantic stuff with Pomni/Caine, but like the first one, occasionally i might come across fanart with them that i think is cute. once I saw a mini-comic (don't remember the author) dedicated to that circus teaser, in the comic Caine suddenly appeared in Pomni's room. Pomni, out of fear, hits him sharply, after which he got upset and she began to apologize <з

if we talk about my fav ship, i love Ragatha/Jax! i don't remember this "name" for the pairing, but yes, that's them. dynamics like theirs are my favorite dynamic in couples, i just love it when characters can't stand each other lol. i love the tension between them and i'm afraid i paid too much attention to it while watching the pilot... oh my god, a moron, who pisses everyone off, with a good-natured girl, who wants to help everyone, but she has to deal with this asshole. i guess it's the "from hate to love" trope, right? i like that the first thing that manifests itself in such couples is negativity, they just piss each other off and cannot calm down. but after a while the annoying cools down and they begin to open up to each other. ofc i don't know Gooseworks’ plans, but you guys probably thought that Jax is actually not such a jerk as he shows himself to be, and in fact he is a deeper character, with his own traumas and trials? let's not turn this into a tragic sob story, but nevertheless, Gooseworks said "every tadc character has a reason why they behave the way they do" and i believe that we will be revealed that. it seems to me that to some extent Jax and Ragatha can complement each other. Like, you know, it’s like N helps Uzi cool down and be calm, and Uzi helps N to be confident and defend his positions. maybe Jax can show Ragata that her toxic positivity is not the best option and sometimes you need to be tough, and Ragatha can help him open up, share his problems and well...to be less jerk-like. and yes, of course i can't get it out of my head that Jax called her "dollface" while he gave the others rude nicknames haha

also i like Ragatha/Pomni, i probably don’t pay much attention to them, but they're good. there are cute interactions between them and it seems that Ragatha was better than the others in being able to approach her and become somewhat of a friend. Ragatha has this energy of a caring mother or something, so her desire to help Pomni get comfortable in the circus and direct her to positive thoughts is cute. at the same time, Pomni looks extremely confused, but Ragatha is the one she turns to because she seems the most adequate and friendly of the others. i liked to draw how they hug, but in i think that most likely Ragatha would not have allowed herself to hug someone without asking, at least she would have asked permission x) however, it seems to me that physical contact and kind words are Ragatha's way of support, so simply holding hands with her would calm Pomni down

also i like Pomni/Gangle and Gangle/Kinger and i don'tind other ships as well !!

#evele stuff #ask #ship ask #tadc #tadc ship #the amazing digital circus #ragatha x jax #jax x ragatha #pomni x ragatha #ragatha x pomni #pomni x jax #pomni x caine

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the-zk-directory · 1 year ago

Text

Zutara Probably Would Have Been Canon in Season 4 – The Masterpost

| [Intro.] |

If you’ve been around or within the Avatar fandom for any period of time you have probably, one way or another, become aware of one of the most intense shipping wars not just of any children’s show, but possibly just in general, one that is well over a decade old by now, approaching two.

Katara and Aang (Kataang), though canon, are often criticized for being one-sided, bad for each of the characters, and rushed. The creators of Avatar though – Mike & Bryan (collectively known as the entity ‘Bryke’) – have stated in the past that Kataang “was in the DNA of the [show] from the start.” (x)

Statements like the above are one of the reasons Zuko and Katara (Zutara) fans have been labelled ‘conspiracy theorists’ when they claim things that contradict Bryke: namely, that Zutara as a pairing was not only a serious consideration during the show’s run, but the likely outcome if the show had continued on for another season, which it seems it almost did.

(This hypothetical ‘Book 4’ was, for a long time, considered a Zutarian conspiracy theory in itself.)

But let’s back up.

How did these so-called conspiracy theories start?

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| [Intro. To The Rumours + Who Is Aaron Ehasz?] |

For a long time, the only thing that Zutara fans could latch onto were rumours. People who claimed to have worked at Nickelodeon, worked in the artistic community and knew things, met a writer in person, etc. This may not sound promising on its face, but the thing is, most of these rumours were consistent. Most of their content concerned the one-time possibility of season 4, and one man in particular: Avatar’s head writer Aaron Ehasz.

We’ll go into those rumours in depth in a second. For right now, here's a little teaser: (x)

But first, who is Aaron Ehasz (& ex-wife Elizabeth Welch) and what were his contributions to the development of Avatar?

[Who Are the Ehaszs, and Why Does Everyone Bring Them Up?] -- (x)(x)

Bonus: (x) (Note that the poster is Giancarlo Volpe btw, another writer on Avatar.)

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| [The Main Rumour Sources – Tumblr Blogs ‘Kataraandzuko’ & ‘Zephyrita’] |

Now we can get to the rumours themselves. The two main sources are both now-deactivated tumblr blogs. ‘Kataraandzuko’ is the first one we’re going to talk about. This person claimed to be an assistant writer/intern on Avatar Books 2/3 with inside knowledge of what went on behind the scenes in the writer’s room.

Meet ‘Kataraandzuko’: (x)

Zephyrita, similarly, claimed to be someone who interned and studied at Nickelodeon Studios in 2007 as an animation color stylist (according to (x)). It seems significant to mention that Zephyrita also claimed to not actually be a Zutara shipper.

(Besides reblogs, a good amount of her original posts can be found on the Wayback Machine. I took screenshots of a few of them and posted them to my blog individually with the links to the rest underneath.)

Meet ‘Zephyrita’: (x)

By the way, while I don’t know when the blogs were first started or when the first rumours concerning season 4 were posted, they seem to have been around since at least late 2015-2016. It’s hard to tell with the blogs and original posts being deactivated, but that’s the earliest I’ve seen. (If anyone sees anything earlier, let me know.) This will become important later.

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| [Controversy: (A conversation I had with…)] |

Now, I said we were going to talk about Kataraandzuko first and the post that we’re going to talk about specifically is this one: (x)

In it, Kataraandzuko claims to have had a conversation with Aaron Ehasz in Philadelphia. Why they were both in Philadelphia is not stated in the post. According to what Kataraandzuko wrote, Aaron seems to strongly imply that he had wanted to explore a romantic relationship between Zuko and Katara. This supposed conversation was turned into a tumblr post and written down in a style reminiscent of an interviewer and interviewee.

Being the only well-known rumour post to be written this way meant it, kataraandzuko themselves, and all the rumours generally would come under a lot of fire when Everything changed when Aaron Ehasz attacked Aaron Ehasz himself came out and said this: (x) in September, 2018.

With Aaron himself basically shooting down the idea that a season 4 (and, by proxy, Zutara) was ever seriously considered or planned, people who had viewed Zutara fans’ theories as nothing more than wild, imaginative conspiracies by desperate shippers felt like they had been proved right: (x)

-----------

| [Other Rumours] |

And yet, rumours persisted.

[This (x) for the record, is kataraandzuko’s follow-up post to their ‘Conversation I had with Aaron Ehasz in Philadelphia’ post. I’ve reblogged a number of their other posts too. But fine, Aaron said the interview was fake, so let’s disregard everything ‘kataraandzuko’ said for now.]

Here’s someone who claims to have been present at a class that Aaron gave a lecture at at UC Berkeley: (x)(x)

(this class seems to have been real – here’s a link to people talking about it 12 years ago; the link on the page appears to have changed though: (x) )

Here’s another post concerning that class, though I’m not sure if the person they’re talking about who attended is actually the same person as above. (x)

Other posts from Reddit, 4chan, & Deviantart: (x)(x)(x)

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| [Evidence Against Kataang] |

[Series Bible] Of course, rumours aren’t really ‘evidence.’ And, while it’s hard to find evidence for something that never happened, it’s not hard to take a look at Avatar’s original series bible, or series outline by Bryke, and see that, though indeed, the series bibles only outlines three seasons, it also doesn’t outline endgame Kataang or suggest it being anywhere near ‘the DNA of the show.’ In fact, Aang and Katara & Sokka separate at the end of this version, with the latter two returning home and Aang going off to search for airbenders. (x)

[“A 50/50 Chance”] Off the record, Bryke even seemed to admit themselves that there might have been a back and forth regarding who exactly was going to end up with who. See here (x) an account of a Kataang fan who thanked Bryke at a comic con, only to be told: “Well, it was a 50/50 chance.“

[M. Night Interview] This was confirmed by a third party as well. ~Certain~ movies he’s made may not have lived up to their expectations but I see no reason why M. Night Shyamalan would lie when he says that at the time he talked to Mike and Bryan regarding a potential live action movie, there were a lot of things that hadn’t been figured out yet, including “who Katara was going to end up with.” (x)

And so, with or without a direct confirmation of season 4 by Aaron (when the world needed him most, he vanished), it seemed there had still been wiggle-room at some point in time for the potential of ~certain things~ to have, indeed, been under consideration, fourth season or not.

-----------

| [Aaron Confirms on Twitter] |

BUT THEN.

100 Years passed and my brot—

On April 1, 2019, Aaron emerged, as if from an iceberg, to share some thoughts on an Azula redemption arc (x), confirm this was not an April Fool’s joke, and to state the following: “Yes, I always believed there would be a 4th season.” (x)

Zutara fans, realizing they had been right about this, and wondering what other strongly associated theory they might have been right about, rejoiced: (x)

One half of the infamous Bryke, Bryan Konietzko, did not. And, in fact, indirectly called Aaron a liar: (x)

And, It is worth mentioning, in the interest of giving everyone the full picture, that Bryan is not the only one to question Aaron recently. In late 2019, allegations came out of Aaron creating a sexist and toxic work environment. (x)

(Personally, I think your mileage may very on how serious or substantial you may find these claims.)

But with regards to the topic at hand, the Season 4 claims, someone on a Reddit thread here (x) recounts: “Also I wasn't really sure where to put this but Jean Paul Bondy, an artist who worked on ATLA, jumped in AE's twitter thread to say ‘I don’t remember this at all. Obviously I wasn’t party to discussion you three had. But I was always under the impression we were only doing the three.’”

Just recently, in 2023, Jack De Sena (Sokka’s VA) also answered a question about season 4 at a con: ((x) -- 27:30)

“I’ve heard subsequently that there was like, conversations about season 4 and stuff, but, at the time, it definitely felt like we were only doing three. Like, I was being told at the time like, they had conceived of this like, closed arc, three season… thing. So, while they were planting some seeds for like, here’s other story elements that we could explore in other areas when we have the time, it definitely felt like, ‘okay, this is, this is the journey we’re going on together, it has reached a logical conclusion.’ So, it did feel, to us while recording it, quite final and complete.”

“I was always told it was a set three,” confirms Zachary Tyler Eisen (Aang’s VA)

-----------

| [Discussion] |

So, in a sense, we’re back where we started. Though, I would question how much, exactly, artists and voice actors, who I would assume typically only start working on scripts that have already been decided on long beforehand, would really know about any behind the scenes discussions among the writers about potential trajectories and arcs for the show as a whole (and how long those would take to play out).

And Jack did mention that he’s heard now that there were “conversations about season 4” – I’m assuming he’s heard that from more trustworthy sources than internet rumours. And, if he did, then that directly contradicts Bryan seemingly saying he never had the slightest interest in making a fourth season and was always firm on that.

After looking at everything, it seems clear to me that, to the direct contradiction of a few rumours on my blog, Avatar was probably NOT pitched as a 4 (or more) season show. I do think it was probably pitched as three. But I also think, after the show was greenlit or as it was going on, Aaron saw the potential for more seasons and pushed for them. Maybe those discussions didn’t make it very far out of the writer’s room. Maybe there was a point in time where Aaron felt he had been successful in convincing Bryke to go for a fourth season. Or maybe he always felt like he’d be able to get them there eventually. Maybe the movie finally put an end to any of Aaron’s hopes. I don’t know.

But, it’s kind of irrelevant. If the ‘conspiracy’ is that Aaron was setting up the show for a Zutara ending in season 4, then it doesn’t matter how close, in reality, we were to a fourth season. What really matters is whether or not Aaron thought there’d be one.

“Yes, I always believed there would be a 4th season”

And it seems he did.

-----------

| [‘Zephyrita’, ’Tizuyan’ & the Smoking Gun] |

Now, you may have noticed that there was someone mentioned before that we never talked about: Zephyrita. I waited because I’ve noticed something that I’ve never seen anybody else talk about, and decided it needed its own section.

Zephyrita was, of course, one of the two main bloggers that claimed to have worked/interned on Avatar back in the day and posted things they supposedly remembered from behind the scenes, things that all supported the Season 4/Zutara theory.

Given that Aaron indirectly called out the other main blog as a fraud, causing us to have to disregard them for now, you may wonder why anyone should view Zephyrita’s credibility as any different. Here’s actually a post of someone arguing with her about this and Zephyrita’s response: (x)

“’You can’t prove you worked at Nick!!’

What type of proof do you need? Why do I have to prove something as insignificant as this anyway? Like, working there isn’t some exclusive club and I didn’t write an entire episode, I just interned and studied there but I did get to talk a lot with the staff. I wanted to intern at CN but I ended up with Nick in the end. This was all back in 2007 and I’ve been working in advertising since then. You want me to just ring up Tim Hendricks and ask him how he is after almost 10 years? […] I would post my studio pass as ‘proof’ but that contains confidential info.”

So let’s get into why I believe Zephyrita.

(x) – This is a post where Zephyrita is asked what some of Aaron’s ideas were that didn’t make it into the show. Most of her response has to deal with Zuko and Katara, but it also includes this little tidbit about Aang at the end:

“Aang would leave on a self-searching journey after feeling the consequences of energybending and getting jealous over how close Zuko and Katara had become.”

In another post (x), she shares “my friend yan no longer has tumblr because people on this site are RIDICULOUS but she told she wanted to put in some extra info about the ideas that ehasz had:”

‘Yan’ I’m thinking is another deactivated user – ‘Tizuyan’ – who also used to post about the unexplored ideas Aaron had. (Admittedly, I’m not sure how they claimed to know any of it.)

But Zephyrita shares the ideas that ‘Yan’ supposedly gave her, including this one: “zuko and katara develop an understanding and bond that the other characters can not comprehend. they grow very close and sokka starts to suspect there is something going on between them. aang starts feeling jealous but tries to hide these feelings (ehasz said he would start feeling “weird” lmao). this would play a part of his growing darkness.”

In yet another post (x), Tizuyan herself writes “They would have fit very well within the possible Book 4 where Aang became “dark” and traveled back to the Air Temples for solace (where he examines himself, and finds a bunch of flying bison + winged lemur)”

So, to summarize, there would have been consequences to energy bending that would have caused a growing darkness in Aang. And as said before, all these posts are from around 2015-2016, if you go back and look at their earliest, still-existing notes.

Why is this significant?

-----------

It is significant because in 2019, after confirming he always thought there’d be a fourth season on twitter, Aaron Ehasz did an interview (x) where he talked a little bit more about what his ideas were for Season 4, beyond an Azula redemption arc. Obviously, there’s nothing in this interview about Zutara. But. But. There is this:

“Ehasz reaffirmed his earlier stated plans for a longer arc for Azula but also divulged additional details. One plotline would have followed up on Aang taking away Fire Lord Ozai’s bending at the end of the third season.

‘My feeling about that was like there’s always a cost, right? There’s always some balance. You can’t just be like I’m the Avatar, taking your powers away. It’s a great power, but part of it is you just took all this evil into you. To take it away from someone else you’re holding onto it to protect the world.’

For Aang that would have been an incredible burden and something Ehasz would have wanted to see him deal with.

‘The story I wanted to tell with Aang was about him struggling with taking some of that inside and probably a considerable amount of anger and guilt and big feelings. By the way, guess who would be the best person to have a mini vacation with? It’s Zuko! Someone who’s processed a lot of anger on his own, right?’”

So… basically… there would have been consequences to energy bending that would have caused a growing darkness in Aang.

It matches up perfectly.

And not only that, but you’ll notice in the interview he also mentions wanting to focus on Iroh and his spiritual transformation, and mentions something relating to the potential for existing airbenders. This also matches up well with other things that were written in the latter two tumblr posts linked above.

So, what are the possible explanations? Liars/delusional shippers on tumblr who were falsely claiming to have insider knowledge on Avatar just so happening to have hit on some of the exact same season 4 plot points as the head writer, 3-4 years before season 4 was even a thing that had been acknowledged publicly? Aaron Ehasz trolling the internet and coming across these theories and then repeating them as if they had been his own ideas for… some purpose?

Or that maybe some of these blogs had been telling the truth?

This is why I called this section ‘the smoking gun’ – I believe that Aang can save t- that DenofGeek interview, along with those old rumour posts give credence to everything else Zephyrita/Tizuyan had to say. (And we’ll get back to ‘kataraandzuko’ later.)

Link to Zephyrita’s posts and comments: (x). The only other post of mine that I know Tizuyan appears on is this one: (x)

-----------

| [Zutara Evidence – External and Textual] |

And there’s more concrete evidence than just rumours. We’ve already gone over the ‘hard’ evidence against the idea that Kataang was planned from the start, but up until now we haven’t gone over the evidence that exists to support Zutara specifically.

First, here’s just a post (x) showing, besides what we’ve already gone over, how Zutara was teased in some of the promotional materials, as well as some comments (including the ‘Avatar Extras’) made by some other writers on the show, further confirming what Bryke once privately acknowledged to a fan – I’m not sure if the chance was exactly 50%, but it seems it was definitively higher than 0.

And, it seems, high enough that little bits of foreshadowing (or…potentially, a major amount of foreshadowing, depending on your view) did make it into the show itself.

Much has been made of the parallels that exist between the ‘Cave of Two Lovers’/’Crossroads of Destiny’ episodes, namely the two lovers with a red and blue color scheme from opposite sides of a war that come together in a cave of glowing crystals… and the two characters with a red and blue color scheme from opposite sides of a war… that come together in a cave of glowing crystals.

Here’s a few posts that break this down in depth: (x) (x) (x)

And here’s just another little piece of external evidence, another comment by a writer – and actually the writer of ‘The Cave of Two Lovers’: (x)

(I noticed he also mentions the series bible saying Zuko and Katara were supposed to end up together??? Yeah, I don’t know what that’s about. Make of it what you will.)

-----------

| [Bryke Being Nasty to Zutarians] |

^^Is it necessary for me to write this section? No.

But, in a way, it’s what led to my interest in this. I’ve said before that if Mike and Bryan had just been normal adults about all this, said that Zutara was a thing that was considered, that could have happened but didn’t, respected their friendship/bond in canon, and just said to all the Zutara fans, “sorry it didn’t go your way this time; hope you can still enjoy the ending anyway!” we wouldn’t have a problem. I would have just thought it was a shame and missed opportunity, and then moved on with my life and not really thought about it ever again.

It's the apparent lying and immaturity and seeming… mean-spirited-ness (?) that gets me. I don’t understand it.

In a rumour from Tizuyan ((x) - this is the second tizuyan post that I linked at the end of the second to last section) she writes: “Bryke despise Zutara.”

This would certainly explain why Zuko and Katara hardly ever seem to have positive interactions in any of the material beyond Avatar’s original series, that is if they even interact at all.

(See Bryan’s out-of-nowhere response to the neutral question, “Can we expect a reunion for the returning characters from The Last Airbender [in Legend of Korra]?” which was:

“As far as a date night between Katara and Zuko, I think you are going to have to stick to the fan art for that." (x) (Not sure if there was any more to this answer or not; I can’t find the original interview, though I know I remember seeing it way back when.)

It would also explain the contents of this rumour (courtesy of Zephyrita) (x) regarding the writing, or re-writing, of ‘The Southern Raiders’ episode.

And it would explain Bryan’s infamous, “Come on kids! ‘Zutara’ never would have lasted! It was just dark and intriguing” comment. (x)

What it wouldn’t explain is the even more infamous video that Bryke debuted at 2008 San Diego Comic Con, and which Bryan (who really seems to be the main instigator in all of this, apparently) has since reposted to his own tumblr account: (x)

You know, the one where Bryke mock Zutara fans with their own fanart and say that “Women who think that Zuko and Katara should be together will forever have doomed relationships.” Yeah.

I have no further comments on it other than what’s already been written in the reblogs linked above.

(And all this is all the more frustrating when Bryan himself seems to have had a slight change of heart when it comes to the ‘DNA of the show’ and writes in late 2014 in a post on The Legend of Korra: “Personally, at that point I didn’t want Korra to have to end up with someone at the end of series. We obviously did it in Avatar, but even that felt a bit forced to me.” (x) (Like, HUH?! Since when?!)

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| [Aaron Ehasz Again + Final Thoughts On The Kataraandzuko “Interview”] |

Meanwhile, Aaron himself painstakingly tends to avoid discussing Zutara, unless it’s brought up to him directly, in which case he usually just gives a wishy-washy answer about how he tries not to actively ship any characters. Though, we will go into an interview that’s slightly more interesting than this in a little bit.

First, I must bring to everyone’s attention a video that it seems no one else has noticed, as the post only had 4 notes on it at the time of writing this. (x)

Here is Aaron Ehasz at a comic con in 2006, which I believe would be sometime before season 2 had finished airing, showing the audience various ships from the show (most of them ridiculous) before at the end getting to Maiko (called Maizu), Kataang, and lastly (which I feel is significant)… Zutara.

This really appears to me to be Aaron showing the audience the ‘serious ships’ under the guise of this being just some funny game, and using the strength of the cheers from the crowd as a way to gauge interest for a potential endgame ship. Either for his own purposes… or for the purpose of possibly convincing someone else. I interpreted this video this way even before I just re-watched it while writing this post and realized that Aaron actually says this directly:

“We really want to hear what you have to say. I want you to know you have a lot of influence and power right now… ‘cause your, your cheers or boos will really… affect it.”

And I think it might make sense to combine this with the rumours here (x) about the supposed lecture at Berkeley where Aaron once flippantly remarked that Zutara couldn’t happen because it “would have made the six year olds cry” and the rumours by jhenne-bean herself, the one who claimed to have been at that lecture, who gives more context here (x):

“GURL IT WAS TOTALLY 50/50 even during the last season.

Actually, Nick execs pushed Kataang.

Because without it (according to one of the head writers that came and spoke to my class last semester) the “six year olds would cry.” Obviously that’s not the sole reasoning behind their decisions, but the intended demographic did sway the final outcome.”

(So, based on all this, I’m thinking that Aaron was probably a little disappointed in that video above when the Zutara cheers didn’t overpower the Kataang ones. [So am I, Aaron. So am I.])

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Now, the only actual filmed interview with Aaron Ehasz about Avatar that I know of is this one: (x) in 2019, where he’s asked questions by fans. Yes, Zutara is brought up, though the surprising part is it’s seemingly at Aaron’s own prompting. For that reason and others I find this interview to be very interesting; I actually did a breakdown of it here (x), which I encourage everyone to consider.

If you’ve read through that breakdown, or just watched the video in question, you will have seen that the “fake” interview from before (x) was once again brought up. I put the word ‘fake’ in quotes because that’s how Aaron appeared to refer to it in the interview – with air quotes. And so now it’s time for my speculation on this “fake” interview:

I think it’s fairly clear that Aaron does not want (or, for some reason feels unable to (?)) speak freely regarding his opinions on how the relationships of Avatar did (or did not) play out. I think it’s safe to say he has avoided saying anything ‘on the books’ that would place him at odds with Bryke (though that post about M Night wanting to focus on season 4 and Bryke wanting to focus on the movie cut it pretty close) or put him on a definitive side of the shipping war, one way or another.

That’s why it makes sense to me that a rumour on the internet that wasn’t just any rumour, but was written in such a way so that it looked like an official *interview*, with Aaron’s name appearing before statements supposedly attributable to him and everything, would be something he’d want to make sure everyone knew was not actually official. If that conversation between kataraandzuko and Aaron actually happened, he would have believed it to be, at the time, a private conversation. He never would have intended for the person he was talking to to post their conversation and make it look like he said these things on the official record.

So, yeah, despite Aaron calling that post out specifically, I think it’s still plausible that that conversation could have actually happened and that kataraandzuko wasn’t lying. Her (?) original tags even say to take it with a grain of salt since it was written from memory.

And notice the line, “I wanted Aang to defeat Ozai and go through some emotional turmoil after taking the Fire Lord's bending.” Sound familiar?

Here’s another variation of one of kataraandzuko’s posts from before (x) where they talk more in depth about being an intern at Nick and what they saw behind the scenes of Avatar, even admitting, “Haha, it’s not hard getting an internship at Nickelodeon. They’re not strict and they accepted me on my first attempt. You just have to be a university student with a lot of motivation.”

(And witness at the end of the post another defensive-Bryke-Bryan example.)

Could all their posts be lies? Sure. But they always seemed credible enough to me. And given everything else we’ve gone over, can you really say anything they posted sounds all that crazy?

So, for your consideration, here’s my tag of all ‘kataraandzuko’s posts: (x)

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| [Summary of All Rumours] |

Also, for your consideration, now that we’ve got all the context behind us, is this post which lists every major piece of gossip about what season 4 would have included had Bryke the universe allowed it to exist: (x)

And a post which I think perfectly encapsulates everything here and my final stance on it: (x)

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...And so. We should be all caught up now.

I hope this post will be useful to anyone who’s confused about the little bits and pieces of things you might have come across or heard regarding season 4 or zutara or Aaron Ehasz or supposed conspiracies. (Or to anyone who just got tired of seeing everyone else, confused, talking about it this way, without the full context.)

If there’s anything major that you feel I missed here, feel free to let me know and I’ll consider adding it in. Otherwise, enjoy the show, enjoy your ship, and I hope you enjoyed reading. Goodbye, everybody! 😊

#Zutara #zukoxkatara #Zuko x Katara #Avatar #Avatar: The Last Airbender #the masterpost #I can't believe I missed posting this in time for Zutara month by two days #I say 'goodbye' at the end of this because now that I've posted it I'm kind of done with this blog #so don't bother following this account I probably won't post anything else beyond today #I've said all I really wanted to say on the topic; though we'll see what happens in a year or so when that adult Gaang movie comes out

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siringadev · 2 months ago

Text

Weinero issues

Not that I'm complaining or lamenting, but it's kind of sad that outside of ao3 fanfics and few fanartists on pixiv, Weiss/Nero has little content and little fans, their pairing isn't even included in the Final Fantasy ships, they don't have fan pages anywhere, just two Nero fan pages on tumblr that barely get updated, and dead fan pages of Nero or Weiss separately from 2013-2016 on twitter, and the new ones are troll pages of Weinero haters (they attacked me and a few Asian artists who draw Weinero). That's it. That's all.

Support is weak, or nonexistent.

You can see all the ship combinations, even the absurd or disturbing ones, but Weiss/Nero won't be on any lists.

It's weird, considering their love is written about in two official FF7 guides (Ultimania), and the canon love line is in the game itself.

What is wrong with them or with people? Is no one moved by their love and their interesting and deep story?

Why do the most absurd ships exist (for example of characters who have never met each other or are enemies without chemistry, or have nothing in common, but I don't mean that it's impossible, everyone ships whatever they want, these are fictional characters, now we're talking about something else, about why one exists despite the lack of reason and logic, and the other does not, despite a good basis and connection), while others, logical, beautiful and emotional ones, barely exist?

You might say that Dirge of Cerberus isn't popular on its own… then why is there a ship like Vincent/Yuffie or Vincent/Shelke (both girls are minor) that originates from Dirge?

People seriously discuss who Vincent would romantically love, Yuffie or Shelke.

And this ship post with Vincent/Shelke.

I just typed their names and this came out, this is what people looking the most.

You'd think it's because Vincent is popular, okay, let's type Vincent and Nero. Here. No "love story" or "romance"!

The Weiss and Nero stuff is just as sad. No discussion or anything other than brief mentions, copypasta from official sources, or "ugh, ship them? You can't love someone without suxualizing/romanticizing them anymore", "I like them as a brothers, no homo/no yaoi" etc.

Of course, things can be much more complicated than it seems, and I don't really understand the reasons, and maybe I draw the wrong conclusions.

I just want to say that some things in the ff7 fandom make me uncomfortable and even hurt, it makes me sad, but there is no guarantee that it will be better in other fandoms (to be honest, in others it is even worse, I look at Elden Ring, Dark Souls, Naruto, Marvel... )

#nero the sable #weiss the immaculate #dirge of cerberus #weinero #ff7 #vincent valentine #shipping #just thoughts #anti dni

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instantpansies · 6 months ago

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Haiii againn :3

Uhmmmm

I was wondering what your general mml hcs are :p

okay i think i'm finally prepared to answer this question!!! i'll preface this by saying i'm much more obsessed w phineas and ferb than milo murphy's law. i love mml very much but i don't have nearly as many Thoughts(tm) about it as i do pnf... even so here's what i've got

i'm not just saying this bc he's the voice actor, i think milo would listen to weird al. that and like '90s-'00s pop hits (basically canon anyway)

melissa has adhd and can't function without variety. she's always multitasking, fiddling, taking hard classes to keep herself occupied

definitely she's the type to really want one of those treadmill desks

that's part of why she gets along so well with milo, it's never the same with him. he's exciting

melissa is the most online of the main kids i think. she probably plays fps games and argues with people who disagree with her on twitter

i think melissa would be a vocaloid fan, lydia got her into it and she passed it on to amanda

btw lydia has been a miku stan since third grade

also melissa likes metal. i have no proof of this but i think she'd like it. good for studying

zack cannot stand metal though, it's grating and he can't hear the lyrics

on the topic of the main kids, i'm not super into shipping or anything but my philosophy is, they all have two hands. so casually speaking i really like the dynamic of simultaneous milo/amanda, amanda/melissa, melissa/zack (i'm not wild about them but if we don't go overboard zalissa is fine), zack/bradley, bradley/milo. they are in a circle holding hands and i like them a lot :3

however like i said that's just for funsies and i dont really really ship anyone there. i do like the dynamics of that particular arrangement though lol!

sara was a tumblr user during the equivalent of superwholock, now that that's not really a thing anymore she's gotten more into analysis and the more geeky side of dr zone fandom. she still watches the old edits though

okayyy i'm kind of obsessed w cavendish and dakota so they r always spinning around in my brain

i think brick and savannah are newer agents than dakavendish, which is why cav is kinda bitter. despite working for the agency for longer, he got stuck with the worst equipment and the most unfulfilling job possible

cav is probably a little frustrated at dakota because of this, but i'd think after so long working w him he's realized that it's not dakota's fault they can't seem to climb the ladder. they're just like that. but obviously he hasn't accepted his fate as we see in the show

dakavendish have been in the same semi-romantic semi-platonic situationship forever. neither of them has said a word. if they knew what a qpr was they'd really like that but they've never heard of it so instead they're just stuck Like That. hopeless idiots my beloved

cavendish watches ancient aliens and all those other sorts of shows about supernatural conspiracies. he half believes them. dakota watches them with him, ironically.

anyways back to the kids. lydia and buford met once at a concert for some famous orchestra, they don't really hang out but they email back and forth sometimes and exchange recipes.

lydia and amanda have been best friends for as long as anyone can remember. it sometimes seems like lydia is just amanda's sidekick, but she just prefers to step out of the way and do her part from behind the scenes. it's less stressful for both of them.

amanda hates candles. just can't stand them. they smell too strong, or never smell right, or they pose a fire hazard, or the shape doesn't fit the vibe she's going for.

related to that i think amanda has some pretty strong sensory aversions, especially to smells and certain textures

milo's backpack is essentially a pocket dimension. it's his hammerspace, so he doesn't need to think too much about what fits or not. he packs it every morning, but the stuff basically comes from already in that hammerspace. there are times when he packs the wrong things (which we see in one episode), but that's because they aren't stored in the backpack and are instead inaccessible to him

basically im saying milo is mary poppins and he can hypothetically access anything he needs at any time. issues only arise when he is caught unaware and unprepared, and that is very rare

milo and sara really like going to creeks. especially when they were little they would go to the nearest creek or pond and wade and look for creatures in the water

baljeet ran a boy bands fan blog back when the lumberzacks were active. he was shouted out once on their old social media and it's still one of his proudest accomplishments.

this isn't really an mml hc but baljeet kind of reminds me of a friend who runs a blog and a youtube channel about some really niche tech and programming stuff, and is also just a normal guy on the internet, so i think baljeet probably does smth similar

amanda and melissa have been academic rivals for a long time, but they have a mutual understanding and it's never gotten nasty. bradley thinks he's melissa's academic rival but honestly she doesn't see him as competition at all

bradley has a pretty big sweet tooth. i'm basing this off the whole carla thing if it wasn't obvious, but he definitely stops by coffee shops after school and gets the sweetest drink he can. ice cream fan as well

tbh i unfortunately do not think much about mort or chad. i dont have any hcs about them

same with the murphy parents :( i like them a lot but i dont have any thoughts abt them rn

elliot is bradley's older cousin who never really got along with him but their parents made them hang out when they were little. i'm going off vibes only here

okay so yeah that's all i can think of for now!!! i'm sure i will think of more later lmao but anyways. mml is such a good show

#thanks so much for the ask aaaa sorry it took me a couple days to answer lol!#dwampyverse #dakavendish #i guess. idk #toasty talks #asks #milo murphy's law #mml

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