#reylo is not abusive

[theweeklydiscourse]

Fake Enemies to Lovers Enjoyers: Enemies to lovers only works when [insert thinly veiled description of their fave ship’s dynamic]! Otherwise it’s abusive and toxic!!

These types want so badly for their preferred ships to be the exception to their sweeping generalizations and arbitrary limits on what can, and cannot be explored within the trope. They’re such hypocrites that want to have their cake and eat it too, they want the pleasure that comes from lording one’s perceived moral superiority over others while also enjoying the things that are so similar to what they condemn.

I beg of you…spare me the inane moralizing of your fictional preferences and please just sit down. Stop trying to move the goalposts to suit your specific preferences, stop ostentatiously moaning about what constitutes as what in regards to a broad trope like Enemies to Lovers. It’s a futile game and you look stupid trying to impose moral judgment on what is just a matter of taste

[kathrahender]

"We should stop normalizing abuse" "We should stop normalizing toxic relationships in media" "We should stop normalizing shipping X and Y characters together" "We should stop normalizing X trope" "We should stop normalizing this" "We should stop normalizing that"

How about we stop normalizing harrasing people over something fictional, hmm? Or you know- how about we stop normalizing telling REAL people to kill themselves?

And with "harassment" I mean "harassment" for any reason. For any reason. So don't start commenting things like "Yeah, harassing is bad, but-". No. If you're okay with harassing people in certain cases, get the hell out of my blog and block me NOW.

[thelandswemadeofpaper]

Why so many 'Morally Grey' romantic interests are actually crazy ass walking red flags?

Like...girl

[shaboozey]

reddit is so funny and by funny i mean racist

[like-sands-of-time]

Idk man I'm a little mad we got one dying kiss between soulmates out of 6 hours of film and no future for them, it just feels insanely unsatisfying? I guess?

Was that meant to be a happy ending?? Her other half is dead .. story rules dictate she can't just go on and be happy with her other half dead, not after they actually said it instead of leaving it unspoken. They have some force bond. Dyads. Equals, two halves of one whole. Balance between light and dark. First in generations they said. No way she's just Fine after his death. No way she's Balanced after his death, what? How?

[ssaltlicker]

It genuinely sucks so bad that a straight pairing can come out of bum fuck nowhere overnight and suddenly get praised for being “the best ship” despite being horribly violent to each other in every instance but one while the lesbian pairing thats had over a decade of buildup and was an actual main plotline of the show got thrown under the bus and gets ignored.

[moody-avocado]

Since I am still salty about this

Every time I see a Reylo post, I get reminded just how much I hated the ending of TROS, which includes the abrupt change in Rey’s character, so here’s rant & some lists/meta.

I am still very annoyed by Rey's reaction to Ben' death, so here’s a list of 5 times Rey was grieving or was at least extremely concerned about someone’s well-being vs. TROS ending. The Force Awakens, The Last Jedi, and The Rise of Skywalker are all there. Daisy Ridley is an amazing actress, and this has nothing to do with her.

I am also including a second list of all the times Rey expressed concern and compassion for Ben, almost all of which were more emotionally intense and satisfying than her reaction to his death.

Rewatching all these scenes has reminded me what a sweet character Rey is; she expresses her emotions so easily and is really in touch with her feelings. The ending of TROS is so out of character for her. Making these lists has also reminded me just how frequently Rey experienced tragedy over the course of the three movies.

I wish Ben lived, of course.

Please keep in mind that a good part of this post talks about character deaths in Star Wars, so please proceed with caution. You might find the content triggering; I have used all the trigger warnings/“tw” tags that I could think of.

Let’s go.

1-2 - TFA

1. Han dies

At this point, Rey barely knows Han (I think she has known him for exactly one day here), and still, this is her reaction to him being stabbed/thrown off the bridge. She gets easily attached to people and that she cares deeply. Rey yells, she cries.

Interestingly, her grief lasts in TFA - this is her returning to the Resistance base after Han’s death:

For contrast, here is Rey returning to the Resistance base after Ben Solo’s death; they had known each other for some time and had a very complex relationship, where they were both vulnerable with each other/bonded through the Force, saved each other’s lives multiple times, and were in love/attracted to each other:

It’s almost scary how quickly she gets over the whole thing.

2. Finn get injured

This scene lasts for a a pretty long time - unlike the segment where Ben disappears/dies and Rey is alone. When it comes to the emotional reaction, while you can argue that Rey is aware that she may die as well (the planet is collapsing), and that that adds to her sadness and concern, it’s still pretty clear that she cares about Finn deeply. She is again crying, and she also starts hugging him almost immediately after she finds him passed out.

Bonus - we can feel the despair in this shot of the gloomy forest:

There was nothing to even symbolically indicate Rey’s profound sadness/loneliness/despair after Ben dies. She does end up alone in a desert, but this is presented both as a happy event and unrelated to her Force dyad soulmate dying. The return to the desert was also awful, but that’s a rant for another time.

This is also a beautiful and very dramatic shot:

This TFA scene would make me think that Rey cares more about Finn, even after knowing him for a very short time and very superficially, than she does about Ben at the end of the trilogy, if I were to compare her “shrug emoji” reaction to this one. However, I would assume that she cares about someone that she shares a connection that spans across space and time and that she is in love with, and a person she met that day, who is admittedly very likeable and who has helped her, in equal measure, at least.

Like with Han, this is Rey still being concerned after they get back to the Resistance base; she is reaching out to see if Finn is alright:

3 - TLJ

3. Luke’s death

Luke dies in this one. Rey talks about it with Leia, and says that it was peaceful and purposeful, which I believe is meant to, in part, explain why they are both not grieving more than this:

Please keep in mind that what I say in this paragraph is completely within the confines of the movies/the narrative and fantasy - it does not apply to real life. I guess that something along those lines could be applied to Ben’s death in TROS - that it was with a purpose - saving Rey. However, I just cannot compare Luke - who had a much longer life and a much less tormented existence overall, and who sacrificed himself to “right the wrong that he did”, which was “creating Kylo Ren” in the first place - dying to save the Resistance, to his nephew dying after he knew happiness for probably the first time in his life, after decades of abuse. A digression, but here is Luke vs. Ben, who is shaking, around the time when they made the decision to sacrifice themselves:

TROS had one of the most depressing movie endings I have ever seen.

4-5 - TROS

4. Rey accidentally zaps the ship that she thought Chewbacca was in

I have no idea how close Rey and Chewbacca are, but here’s how she reacts when she is convinced that Chewie is dead:

5. Leia

Leia dies and Rey senses it in the Force. This is probably the most miserable we ever see Rey. She has just lost her mother figure - it is difficult to watch:

Ok, now Rey expressing concern for Ben:

1. TFA - planet collapsing

This is a subtle one, and she is either concerned (she left Kylo Ren/Ben to die, injured) or she is intrigued by their meeting and is reflecting on it (some third option is a possibility - for example, she noticed a ship come pick him up):

2. TLJ - Ben explains to Rey that Luke tried to kill him

She calls him a liar, and while she might also be crying because she is shocked to learn such a thing and is disappointed in Luke, she is clearly sad about the whole thing:

3. TLJ - Rey is mad that Luke tried to kill Ben

Rey is protective when it comes to the people (and droids) she cares about. You could argue that in this scene she is angry about all the events that stemmed from “Luke creating Kylo Ren”, and that that’s why she is in fight mode. Still, it’s shown that she has developed some feelings for Ben:

4. TLJ - Rey sees Kylo getting strangled during the Throne room fight:

5. TLJ - The “you are breaking my heart! You are going down a path that I can't follow” moment:

6. TROS - Rey healing Ben

While she is still overwhelmed and crying due to Leia’s passing, Rey turns towards Ben (my interpretation is that she is also wondering what his feelings concerning his mother’s death are, due to their strained relationship) and then looks at his wound:

Rey informs Ben that she wanted to take his hand after she is done healing him:

She shifts from grieving for Leia, to grieving the relationship that she could have had with Ben.

7. TROS - Rey realizing Ben has arrived to help her fight Palpatine

I love this moment ^

I think that all of these moments show that Rey does care about Ben, deeply. These are her reactions to events that are not as final as his death.

And finally - Ben dying:

The way this scene is presented, it really seems that Rey is frowning primarily because she is confused - she doesn’t understand why Ben is acting all weird:

Rey when she comprehends that Ben is dead:

That’s it. There is no screaming, crying, trying to hold him, nothing.

And then

She doesn’t even mention Ben dying to anyone (there is no discussing Luke’s death-type scene). I am presuming that she has to bring it up, and fast, since this is also the Supreme Leader who has just died, she is the only one who knows for certain he is dead, and Rey and all her friends are... politically involved, but this probably happens off-screen then.

I could add that Rey holds a sort of a funeral for Leia and Luke (burying the lightsabers), but that she does not do anything similar for Ben.

If you have made it to the end of the post, please let me know what your thoughts are!

Thanks for reading, This has been therapeutic.

I do not own any of the materials used/any of the characters, entertainment purposes only.

[just-antithings]

While I agree that Voltron was the main catalyst for antis being so prevalent in fandoms, I think that the first massive anti wave happened in the Star Wars fandom after TFA's release in 2015. Antis in were abusing terms "racism" and "abuse" (f.e. you could be called a racist for liking Hux or for shipping Rey with anyone else than Finn, even if you shipped her with him as well and it was your otp), sending photos of Holocaust victims to Reylo shippers and straight up lying. I remember how in early 2016 some anti pretended to be Dave Filoni and claimed that he supports anti reylos (and many anti reylos fell for that).

.

[lachrimae-verae]

Reylo girlies in 2024 makes me really believe that White Girls wanna be in a toxic and/or physically abusive relationship for The Clout truly. Like, what else is there for them in the ship. It's been years and I'm still confused and honestly it's revolting that it was an actual mainstream ship. What the hell.

[theweeklydiscourse]

The Enemies to Lovers Clause: A fictional relationship that falls under the category of enemies to lovers must demonstrate an established relationship between the two parties outside of their status as enemies in order to make a credible argument against it, on the basis of abuse or the romanticisation of abuse. If the wrongdoing, (ex. physical violence, slander, insults, psychological manipulation, etc.) occurred while both parties were enemies, it’s fair game. However, if the wrongdoing occurs during the relationship (ex. Friendship, marriage, lovers) then you can make a plausible case for it.

[kathrahender]

Hate when some people in this site reblog posts like "It's not hard to be kind to people" "It doesn't cost you anything to be kind to people" while being literally the most unpleasant person in this world. "Be kind" "Be human" "Treat others with respect" How about you look at yourself in a mirror and realize your hypocrisy, hmm?

I might get angry sometimes and I might be an asshole sometimes, but at least I don't pretend I'm a saint, like those people do. And I don't criticize nice users who act "a little angry" sometimes. I'm talking about those people who straight up say things like "kys" "you should die" or make you feel like you have commited a crime when you haven't.

To the people who get those hate comments (who are innocent, because I'm not gonna defend a person who actually did bad things in life): don't listen to them. You are worthy. You deserve to be happy. You deserve to have good things in life. Nothing those haters say it's true. You're not a bad person for liking a ship. You're not a bad person for disliking a ship. You're not the wrong one here. You're not the one to blame. You're not a monster. You're not a freak. You're not a weirdo. You're not an abuse apologist. You're not a murder apologist. You don't support bad things in real life. You are just a good person who bad things happened to. You are a person with emotions who don't deserve to be harassed. You are a person who doesn't deserve to feel like a villain. You are human. You deserve to be treated with respect. You don't deserve to be tortured. You don't deserve to have more traumas. And don't do things just because they told you to. Don't think about commiting suicide for them, because they're not worthy. And don't cry because of them. They don't deserve your tears. And you also don't deserve to be crying in your bed to sleep, or have panic attacks, or have insomnia. You deserve to be healthy. You deserve to be alive.

If you need someone to talk to, my DMs or my ask box is always open. I'm not a therapist, but if you need to vent, if you just need someone to hear you, I'm here 🫂

To the people who send those hate comments: Sorry for he next words. Actually, no. I'm not sorry for the words I'm gonna say. Honestly:

FUCK YOU.

Maybe that sounds bad, but I'm being serious. If you do these things, if you harass people, if you tell people to kill themselves, if you make them feel like a monster when they're innocent (Because in most of the cases they are innocent) and if you doxx them- honestly- you're one of the WORST humans of this world. Who the hell do you think you are? Who the hell do you think you are to tell somone "kys"? Who the hell do you think you are to tell a person they deserve to die when they're innocent? "Oh, but they like/don't like a ship" AND WHAT THE HELL WRONG WITH THAT? IT'S A FUCKING SHIP. DO YOU THINK IT'S OKAY TO TELL SOMEONE TO COMMIT SUICIDE FOR DISLIKING/LIKING A SHIP? If you think that's okay, honestly, I think you URGENTLY need help because that's not normal.

"They need therapy for liking/disliking the ship I dislike/like" I can't believe people seriously use these arguments. What do you have in your mind? Do you have brain? Are you intelligent? Because if you have brain and you are intelligent- I think there's something wrong there. And If you think you're "intelligent" or morally superior- I'm asking you to analyze yourself because that's not true at all. If you get this angry for people liking/disliking a ship, I'm honestly worried about how you react in your normal life about other minor problems.

[problematic-faves-appreciation]

I loved reading your problematic relationship tier list! I felt that it provided a thorough explanation of the different degrees of problematic qualities in fictional relationships. I particularly enjoyed your notes on Reylo as well, I think that the yellow tier was especially fitting for it. Seeing how you laid out the contents of that relationship was validating considering how people used to (and still do) talk about it as if it was an intensely dark and twisted dynamic, when in reality it was fairly tame.

Even when I was younger, I was able to recognize that their dynamic was simply that of heroes and villains and that made it a bit jarring to see people claiming that it was abusive

[Problematic Relationships (Non-Platonic) Competition List — Canonical]

I'm glad you enjoyed my list! c:

Like, is it really that difficult for certain fandom-goers to differentiate a standard hero vs. villain dynamic from an abusive one?

The people who call Reylo "abusive" have clearly never heard of Anthony Rawlings and Claire Nichols (6th place on the list) from the Consequences Series by Aleatha Romig. His relationship with Claire in book one is the stuff of nightmares!

[ichabodcranemills]

it’s seems as if it’s my curse to become obsessed with a TV show that’s going to be constantly analysed in the worst faith possible, featuring an unfairly hated blonde bad bitch in a complicated and cosmically significant relationship with a dark-haired villainous guy who’s constantly on the verge of tears

[mauricemylittlemeowmeow]

back in the city. watched It Ends With Us with my roommate.

[count-doodoo]

sometimes "go touch grass" is a stupid comeback and sometimes i really do need to go touch grass because like. i'll see someone reblog an anidala gifset and i'll be like hmm, i didn't take you for that kind of person (not necessarily in a bad way) and then i'll remember five hours later that there is a great deal of diversity in the anidala fandom -- it's literally a canon ship -- and the reblogging of an anidala gifset doesn't mean that they condone darth vader's asshattery/stupidity/what-the-fuck-even behaviour nor that they think mace windu was evil or--

and then five hours after that i'll remember that actually, hey, it's not like i'm anti-anidala. i don't think i've reblogged any anidala gifsets, and yeah i think anakin and padme were both pretty damn messy, but i would totally reblog a good gifset if i came across it (but i don't actually really follow star wars tags, so). and plus! anidala scenes are iconic. the "you're joking right" meme. "i like sand". they're just. i don't have words.

so why wouldn't someone who has never expressed hatred for anidala reblog an anidala gifset?

(sometimes i look at my own blogs and am like "huh i wouldn't have expected that out of you" and then am like. "you already DID that. why the fuck are you SHOCKED.")

so anyways yeah i should probably smash my face into the dirt, brb.

[ultraericthered]

Bros will look at an enemies to lovers ship in their enemies stage and call it abuse