#reylo is not abusive

[theweeklydiscourse]

Fake Enemies to Lovers Enjoyers: Enemies to lovers only works when [insert thinly veiled description of their fave ship’s dynamic]! Otherwise it’s abusive and toxic!!

These types want so badly for their preferred ships to be the exception to their sweeping generalizations and arbitrary limits on what can, and cannot be explored within the trope. They’re such hypocrites that want to have their cake and eat it too, they want the pleasure that comes from lording one’s perceived moral superiority over others while also enjoying the things that are so similar to what they condemn.

I beg of you…spare me the inane moralizing of your fictional preferences and please just sit down. Stop trying to move the goalposts to suit your specific preferences, stop ostentatiously moaning about what constitutes as what in regards to a broad trope like Enemies to Lovers. It’s a futile game and you look stupid trying to impose moral judgment on what is just a matter of taste

[kathrahender]

"We should stop normalizing abuse" "We should stop normalizing toxic relationships in media" "We should stop normalizing shipping X and Y characters together" "We should stop normalizing X trope" "We should stop normalizing this" "We should stop normalizing that"

How about we stop normalizing harrasing people over something fictional, hmm? Or you know- how about we stop normalizing telling REAL people to kill themselves?

And with "harassment" I mean "harassment" for any reason. For any reason. So don't start commenting things like "Yeah, harassing is bad, but-". No. If you're okay with harassing people in certain cases, get the hell out of my blog and block me NOW.

[punkeropercyjackson]

'Violence is romantic actually🤪I'm sooooo problematic'I can tell you're white

[thelandswemadeofpaper]

Why so many 'Morally Grey' romantic interests are actually crazy ass walking red flags?

Like...girl

[oliviabaker]

reddit is so funny and by funny i mean racist

[luke-shywalker]

home again.

“Rey! Come down! You’re going to be late for school!”

“I’m coming, Mum! Geez!”

“Han, would you wash out the caf pot—no, wait, you broke it last time. Just leave it alone.”

“You could have a little faith in me, Your Highness.”

“Don’t ‘Your Highness’ me. Get that scrappy kid to school. And tell her not to beat up any more boys.”

“Rey, don’t beat up any more boys. Just tell ‘em who your dad is.”

“Right, Dad—and they’ll be all like, ‘Han Solo’ who?”

“For kriff’s sake, why am I getting the rough end from both my ladies today?”

“Han, language. But—sorry. Kiss! Mwah. Go upstairs and check on Ben when you come back, all right? Have a good day at school, Rey! Bye, flyboy.”

“Bye Mum!”

“See ya, sweetheart.”

The sound of the door closing.

“Oi. Mum’s always so stressed.”

“Rey. I know your mother doesn’t want you picking fights. But, as your father, I just wanna tell ya I’m proud of you for sticking up for yourself, and I want you to know that if you ever feel like you gotta—”

The door closed again, leaving the rest of the conversation a mystery.

Ben sighed and rolled over in bed. The house he’d grown up in had always been like that—you could hear everything that went on from any room.

He hadn’t lived here for a long time—seven years, about? And yet, it felt like he’d never left. Or, like he’d gone back in time.

There was evidence that Rey had started using his bedroom as kind of a garage—not that she didn’t have enough space in her own room (which required one to wade through knee-high levels of…just…stuff, and rather resembled the wasteland she had been rescued from). His desk, where he used to draw pictures of his own made-up ships and write himself into fictional stories about the Rebellion, was covered in mechanical pieces and bits of wiring from Rey’s projects. But other than that, his room was largely unchanged. The X-wing posters were still there. And so was the Sy Snootles pinup that Poe had given him as a joke. He was both surprised and amused that his mother had never taken it down.

But, then, it also felt like time had moved on without him. He’d been here for a few days now—consigned here by a freak medical crisis—and watching his mom and dad and sister play out the daily orchestration of their lives kind of made him feel like he had died after high school and his family had just kept on doing their thing.

Being around Rey was the weirdest part. The last time he had lived in the same house as his sister, she’d been seven, eight years old. Obviously, he’d seen her since then, every Life Day, and a few other times each year—but whenever Rey showed up in his dreams or in his mind, she was still seven.

But now she was fifteen, and she was…him. All those memories Ben had of being a teenager, of doing homework at the dinner table, fighting with his parents over nothing, using words that meant things to his peers but that his family didn’t understand, laughing on late night holocalls with friends and getting yelled at to go to bed—that was her, now. And now here he was, twenty-five and boring.

His boringness was evidenced by the fact that he missed buying groceries and making his own food. His parents couldn’t cook. They never could. Rey could eat literally anything, so that didn’t bother her. But Ben missed making his own dinner—maybe it was about the food, but maybe it was also just about the sense of control.

He couldn’t pilot a speeder in his current condition, so he was stuck here. He could go on walks, but he didn’t want to most of the time, because it made him dizzy.

He found himself alternating mostly between sleeping, and wandering the empty house during the day. Trying to spot things that had changed. Looking at the holopicture frames. There were still holos of him, but there were more and more holos of Rey. It was like getting caught up on her life since he’d left home.

Being off work felt like summer vacation. Only…bad. Because doing nothing all day was fun for a kid—but for a grownup, it was kind of like hell. The hours blurred together into sluggish, amorphous days, and he just kind of found himself places, doing things—oh, hey, I’m here now. Now he found himself downstairs in the kitchen, washing out the caf pot that his mom hadn’t trusted his dad not to break.

That was another thing—he didn’t like the caf his mom made. She used really cheap caf grounds that she bought in bulk, which was exactly what she would do, being practical—but ever since leaving home, Ben had discovered good caf, and it was hard to go back.

It was hard to go back to a lot of things.

He set the caf pot on the rack to dry, and for a second he just stood there, looking out the kitchen window. Is this who I thought I’d be as an adult…?

Am I an adult?

And then he noticed that Rey had left the blue milk uncapped and on the counter, and the carton was sweating and becoming lukewarm, and that really pissed him off, so he capped it and put it in the fridge like it was supposed to be—and that told him, yes, he was now just a boring adult.

…Well. Maybe being a boring adult was better than being a teenage psychological mess, which was what he had been before.

He filled a glass of tap water and drank cheers to that.

Ben heard the door open, and turned to see his father coming back in.

He gave a nod. “Hey, Dad.”

“Oh, you’re up,” Han said. “How ya feelin’, kid?”

Ben imagined his dad would probably still be calling him “kid” when he was forty-five.

“I’ve been better,” Ben said, then changed the subject, because he was kind of sick of talking about his health. “So. How’s being house husband?”

“Hey.” Han pointed a defensive finger. “I am not a house husband.”

“Hey, I never said there was anything wrong with it,” Ben chuckled into his glass of water. “You’re doin’ great, Dad. Maybe she’ll even let you wash the caf pot someday.”

“Listen, kid, that was one time.”

“Oh, I’m just givin’ ya a hard time, old man.”

“Uh-huh. And when are you getting married?”

“Never. Women find me intolerable.”

“Funny. I said the exact same thing, at your age.”

“You know, I can’t believe Mom settled for you,” Ben joked, curious to see how the jab would land.

But Han just grinned and inclined his head and spread his arms in humility. “That’s what I’m sayin’, kid. If there’s hope for me, there’s hope for anybody.” He paused mischievously, and then took a shot back. “Even if you never inherited my dashingly good looks.”

“Ha! You mean I was spared from them,” Ben snorted. “Well, thanks, Dad; I’ll keep it in mind.”

Han laughed too. Insults were kind of a love language in their family, as weird as that sounded. He came over to lean against the counter next to Ben, then clapped him on the back and looked him in the eyes, like he was studying the man Ben had grown up into.

“Hey. I know the circumstances aren’t great, but…it’s kinda nice, having you home, Ben. I miss ya.”

“You do?” Ben asked with a self-conscious laugh, feeling more sentimental about his father’s words than he was comfortable admitting. “Kind of seems like your lives all went on without me.”

“Well…yours went on without us, too,” Han said, then shook him by the shoulders a little. “You need to call home more often, little buddy.”

Little buddy—Ben was a couple inches taller.

“I know,” Ben said, patting the top of his father’s graying head. “I’m just bad at it.”

“That’s no excuse.” Han tilted his head conspiratorially. “A house husband gets lonely, ya know.”

“Heh. Well. Can’t have that, I guess.”

They stood there, together. Father and son. The Solo men, Leia called them, when she was feeling playful.

“…Wanna take the Falcon out for a spin?” Han asked suddenly.

Ben turned to look at him, so abruptly it made his head hurt. “What—like, right now? I can’t pilot, Dad. The medcenter told me—”

“You can co-pilot.”

“No, Dad, I so can’t.”

“What’s the worst that could happen?”

“Uh, I get us both killed? No, wait—what’s worse is if Mom finds out.”

“C’mon.”

“Dad.”

“C’mon!”

“No!”

“Come on—”

“Okay!”

“Okay?”

“Okay. Geez.”

“All right!” Han tousled his son’s hair as if he was twenty years younger and tossed him his boots, which Ben started putting on amidst a sea of complaints—

“For kriff’s sake, Dad, fine, but I’m tellin’ ya, I can’t see that good right now, and I haven’t even piloted the Falcon in ages even if I was healthy, and this was all your stupid idea in the first place, so don’t you go giving me hell if I happen to put a scratch on your beloved—”

Han only laughed, while Ben was still talking, and the door closed, leaving the Organa-Solo house quiet again.

[like-sands-of-time]

Idk man I'm a little mad we got one dying kiss between soulmates out of 6 hours of film and no future for them, it just feels insanely unsatisfying? I guess?

Was that meant to be a happy ending?? Her other half is dead .. story rules dictate she can't just go on and be happy with her other half dead, not after they actually said it instead of leaving it unspoken. They have some force bond. Dyads. Equals, two halves of one whole. Balance between light and dark. First in generations they said. No way she's just Fine after his death. No way she's Balanced after his death, what? How?

[moody-avocado]

Since I am still salty about this

Every time I see a Reylo post, I get reminded just how much I hated the ending of TROS, which includes the abrupt change in Rey’s character, so here’s rant & some lists/meta.

I am still very annoyed by Rey's reaction to Ben' death, so here’s a list of 5 times Rey was grieving or was at least extremely concerned about someone’s well-being vs. TROS ending. The Force Awakens, The Last Jedi, and The Rise of Skywalker are all there. Daisy Ridley is an amazing actress, and this has nothing to do with her.

I am also including a second list of all the times Rey expressed concern and compassion for Ben, almost all of which were more emotionally intense and satisfying than her reaction to his death.

Rewatching all these scenes has reminded me what a sweet character Rey is; she expresses her emotions so easily and is really in touch with her feelings. The ending of TROS is so out of character for her. Making these lists has also reminded me just how frequently Rey experienced tragedy over the course of the three movies.

I wish Ben lived, of course.

Please keep in mind that a good part of this post talks about character deaths in Star Wars, so please proceed with caution. You might find the content triggering; I have used all the trigger warnings/“tw” tags that I could think of.

Let’s go.

1-2 - TFA

1. Han dies

At this point, Rey barely knows Han (I think she has known him for exactly one day here), and still, this is her reaction to him being stabbed/thrown off the bridge. She gets easily attached to people and that she cares deeply. Rey yells, she cries.

Interestingly, her grief lasts in TFA - this is her returning to the Resistance base after Han’s death:

For contrast, here is Rey returning to the Resistance base after Ben Solo’s death; they had known each other for some time and had a very complex relationship, where they were both vulnerable with each other/bonded through the Force, saved each other’s lives multiple times, and were in love/attracted to each other:

It’s almost scary how quickly she gets over the whole thing.

2. Finn get injured

This scene lasts for a a pretty long time - unlike the segment where Ben disappears/dies and Rey is alone. When it comes to the emotional reaction, while you can argue that Rey is aware that she may die as well (the planet is collapsing), and that that adds to her sadness and concern, it’s still pretty clear that she cares about Finn deeply. She is again crying, and she also starts hugging him almost immediately after she finds him passed out.

Bonus - we can feel the despair in this shot of the gloomy forest:

There was nothing to even symbolically indicate Rey’s profound sadness/loneliness/despair after Ben dies. She does end up alone in a desert, but this is presented both as a happy event and unrelated to her Force dyad soulmate dying. The return to the desert was also awful, but that’s a rant for another time.

This is also a beautiful and very dramatic shot:

This TFA scene would make me think that Rey cares more about Finn, even after knowing him for a very short time and very superficially, than she does about Ben at the end of the trilogy, if I were to compare her “shrug emoji” reaction to this one. However, I would assume that she cares about someone that she shares a connection that spans across space and time and that she is in love with, and a person she met that day, who is admittedly very likeable and who has helped her, in equal measure, at least.

Like with Han, this is Rey still being concerned after they get back to the Resistance base; she is reaching out to see if Finn is alright:

3 - TLJ

3. Luke’s death

Luke dies in this one. Rey talks about it with Leia, and says that it was peaceful and purposeful, which I believe is meant to, in part, explain why they are both not grieving more than this:

Please keep in mind that what I say in this paragraph is completely within the confines of the movies/the narrative and fantasy - it does not apply to real life. I guess that something along those lines could be applied to Ben’s death in TROS - that it was with a purpose - saving Rey. However, I just cannot compare Luke - who had a much longer life and a much less tormented existence overall, and who sacrificed himself to “right the wrong that he did”, which was “creating Kylo Ren” in the first place - dying to save the Resistance, to his nephew dying after he knew happiness for probably the first time in his life, after decades of abuse. A digression, but here is Luke vs. Ben, who is shaking, around the time when they made the decision to sacrifice themselves:

TROS had one of the most depressing movie endings I have ever seen.

4-5 - TROS

4. Rey accidentally zaps the ship that she thought Chewbacca was in

I have no idea how close Rey and Chewbacca are, but here’s how she reacts when she is convinced that Chewie is dead:

5. Leia

Leia dies and Rey senses it in the Force. This is probably the most miserable we ever see Rey. She has just lost her mother figure - it is difficult to watch:

Ok, now Rey expressing concern for Ben:

1. TFA - planet collapsing

This is a subtle one, and she is either concerned (she left Kylo Ren/Ben to die, injured) or she is intrigued by their meeting and is reflecting on it (some third option is a possibility - for example, she noticed a ship come pick him up):

2. TLJ - Ben explains to Rey that Luke tried to kill him

She calls him a liar, and while she might also be crying because she is shocked to learn such a thing and is disappointed in Luke, she is clearly sad about the whole thing:

3. TLJ - Rey is mad that Luke tried to kill Ben

Rey is protective when it comes to the people (and droids) she cares about. You could argue that in this scene she is angry about all the events that stemmed from “Luke creating Kylo Ren”, and that that’s why she is in fight mode. Still, it’s shown that she has developed some feelings for Ben:

4. TLJ - Rey sees Kylo getting strangled during the Throne room fight:

5. TLJ - The “you are breaking my heart! You are going down a path that I can't follow” moment:

6. TROS - Rey healing Ben

While she is still overwhelmed and crying due to Leia’s passing, Rey turns towards Ben (my interpretation is that she is also wondering what his feelings concerning his mother’s death are, due to their strained relationship) and then looks at his wound:

Rey informs Ben that she wanted to take his hand after she is done healing him:

She shifts from grieving for Leia, to grieving the relationship that she could have had with Ben.

7. TROS - Rey realizing Ben has arrived to help her fight Palpatine

I love this moment ^

I think that all of these moments show that Rey does care about Ben, deeply. These are her reactions to events that are not as final as his death.

And finally - Ben dying:

The way this scene is presented, it really seems that Rey is frowning primarily because she is confused - she doesn’t understand why Ben is acting all weird:

Rey when she comprehends that Ben is dead:

That’s it. There is no screaming, crying, trying to hold him, nothing.

And then

She doesn’t even mention Ben dying to anyone (there is no discussing Luke’s death-type scene). I am presuming that she has to bring it up, and fast, since this is also the Supreme Leader who has just died, she is the only one who knows for certain he is dead, and Rey and all her friends are... politically involved, but this probably happens off-screen then.

I could add that Rey holds a sort of a funeral for Leia and Luke (burying the lightsabers), but that she does not do anything similar for Ben.

If you have made it to the end of the post, please let me know what your thoughts are!

Thanks for reading, This has been therapeutic.

I do not own any of the materials used/any of the characters, entertainment purposes only.

[just-antithings]

While I agree that Voltron was the main catalyst for antis being so prevalent in fandoms, I think that the first massive anti wave happened in the Star Wars fandom after TFA's release in 2015. Antis in were abusing terms "racism" and "abuse" (f.e. you could be called a racist for liking Hux or for shipping Rey with anyone else than Finn, even if you shipped her with him as well and it was your otp), sending photos of Holocaust victims to Reylo shippers and straight up lying. I remember how in early 2016 some anti pretended to be Dave Filoni and claimed that he supports anti reylos (and many anti reylos fell for that).

.

[lachrimae-verae]

Reylo girlies in 2024 makes me really believe that White Girls wanna be in a toxic and/or physically abusive relationship for The Clout truly. Like, what else is there for them in the ship. It's been years and I'm still confused and honestly it's revolting that it was an actual mainstream ship. What the hell.

[theweeklydiscourse]

The Enemies to Lovers Clause: A fictional relationship that falls under the category of enemies to lovers must demonstrate an established relationship between the two parties outside of their status as enemies in order to make a credible argument against it, on the basis of abuse or the romanticisation of abuse. If the wrongdoing, (ex. physical violence, slander, insults, psychological manipulation, etc.) occurred while both parties were enemies, it’s fair game. However, if the wrongdoing occurs during the relationship (ex. Friendship, marriage, lovers) then you can make a plausible case for it.

[kathrahender]

Hate when some people in this site reblog posts like "It's not hard to be kind to people" "It doesn't cost you anything to be kind to people" while being literally the most unpleasant person in this world. "Be kind" "Be human" "Treat others with respect" How about you look at yourself in a mirror and realize your hypocrisy, hmm?

I might get angry sometimes and I might be an asshole sometimes, but at least I don't pretend I'm a saint, like those people do. And I don't criticize nice users who act "a little angry" sometimes. I'm talking about those people who straight up say things like "kys" "you should die" or make you feel like you have commited a crime when you haven't.

To the people who get those hate comments (who are innocent, because I'm not gonna defend a person who actually did bad things in life): don't listen to them. You are worthy. You deserve to be happy. You deserve to have good things in life. Nothing those haters say it's true. You're not a bad person for liking a ship. You're not a bad person for disliking a ship. You're not the wrong one here. You're not the one to blame. You're not a monster. You're not a freak. You're not a weirdo. You're not an abuse apologist. You're not a murder apologist. You don't support bad things in real life. You are just a good person who bad things happened to. You are a person with emotions who don't deserve to be harassed. You are a person who doesn't deserve to feel like a villain. You are human. You deserve to be treated with respect. You don't deserve to be tortured. You don't deserve to have more traumas. And don't do things just because they told you to. Don't think about commiting suicide for them, because they're not worthy. And don't cry because of them. They don't deserve your tears. And you also don't deserve to be crying in your bed to sleep, or have panic attacks, or have insomnia. You deserve to be healthy. You deserve to be alive.

If you need someone to talk to, my DMs or my ask box is always open. I'm not a therapist, but if you need to vent, if you just need someone to hear you, I'm here 🫂

To the people who send those hate comments: Sorry for he next words. Actually, no. I'm not sorry for the words I'm gonna say. Honestly:

FUCK YOU.

Maybe that sounds bad, but I'm being serious. If you do these things, if you harass people, if you tell people to kill themselves, if you make them feel like a monster when they're innocent (Because in most of the cases they are innocent) and if you doxx them- honestly- you're one of the WORST humans of this world. Who the hell do you think you are? Who the hell do you think you are to tell somone "kys"? Who the hell do you think you are to tell a person they deserve to die when they're innocent? "Oh, but they like/don't like a ship" AND WHAT THE HELL WRONG WITH THAT? IT'S A FUCKING SHIP. DO YOU THINK IT'S OKAY TO TELL SOMEONE TO COMMIT SUICIDE FOR DISLIKING/LIKING A SHIP? If you think that's okay, honestly, I think you URGENTLY need help because that's not normal.

"They need therapy for liking/disliking the ship I dislike/like" I can't believe people seriously use these arguments. What do you have in your mind? Do you have brain? Are you intelligent? Because if you have brain and you are intelligent- I think there's something wrong there. And If you think you're "intelligent" or morally superior- I'm asking you to analyze yourself because that's not true at all. If you get this angry for people liking/disliking a ship, I'm honestly worried about how you react in your normal life about other minor problems.

[punkeropercyjackson]

"If villain bad,why sexy?"Because you are not immune to propaganda.And also think beauty only exists within cis and/or white standards

[problematic-faves-appreciation]

I loved reading your problematic relationship tier list! I felt that it provided a thorough explanation of the different degrees of problematic qualities in fictional relationships. I particularly enjoyed your notes on Reylo as well, I think that the yellow tier was especially fitting for it. Seeing how you laid out the contents of that relationship was validating considering how people used to (and still do) talk about it as if it was an intensely dark and twisted dynamic, when in reality it was fairly tame.

Even when I was younger, I was able to recognize that their dynamic was simply that of heroes and villains and that made it a bit jarring to see people claiming that it was abusive

[Problematic Relationships (Non-Platonic) Competition List — Canonical]

I'm glad you enjoyed my list! c:

Like, is it really that difficult for certain fandom-goers to differentiate a standard hero vs. villain dynamic from an abusive one?

The people who call Reylo "abusive" have clearly never heard of Anthony Rawlings and Claire Nichols (6th place on the list) from the Consequences Series by Aleatha Romig. His relationship with Claire in book one is the stuff of nightmares!

[ichabodcranemills]

it’s seems as if it’s my curse to become obsessed with a TV show that’s going to be constantly analysed in the worst faith possible, featuring an unfairly hated blonde bad bitch in a complicated and cosmically significant relationship with a dark-haired villainous guy who’s constantly on the verge of tears

[supremeprince-bensolo]

I wonder why Victoria Aveyard shipped Galadriel x saouron, who called Ben as ugly, i dont understand why people are hypothetical who shipped villan x heroine include draco x hemorine dislike reylo fandom, what your thougets?

Ah yes I remember those comments.

The irony of someone being against Reylo because it’s ‘problematic’ but shipping Galadriel x Sauron which is 100x darker. And all but admitting she probably would ship Reylo if Ben were played by a different actor 🙄

Honestly I don’t get it. Reylo is so tame when it comes to enemies to lovers/hero x villain ships, yet people who ship those other ships don’t even want to be associated with us???