#anti reylo

[fantastic-nonsense]

reylos crying on twitter because Adam Driver explicitly confirmed that Bendemption was never originally in the plans for Kylo....this is justice for the last 8 years, actually

[darthteeth]

good morning🙂‍↕️

[assiraphales]

not to dredge up old discourse but its still legitimately such a tragedy that rey, one of the only main female protagonists in star wars, had so much potential and her story was reduced thru fandom & writing choices to a toxic relationship with a genocidal whiny ass man. she deserved so much more as a character, and could have been so much more 

[icedsodapop]

Why having a literature landscape monopolized by published Reylo fanfiction is not good:

The whole publishing Reylo fanfiction is also getting much more racially diverse because you are also seeing women of colour like Thea Guanzon and Molly X. Chang join in the fray, and their books are led by characters of colour to reflect their authors as well. However, this adds on another problem where the veneer of racial diversity of the recent slate of published Reylo fanfiction lends even more legitimacy to the genre even if the representation is... questionable, subpar and dangerous at worst.

[oliviabear]

leslye and manny so so funny. "we never really see that in the dark side" "i dont even think this is good girl against bad guy" IM CRYING THEY RLLY SAID FUCK REYLO AIDJJSJSJSKKSKSJ i cheered

[willow-lark]

there is nothing cool or sexy about kylo ren he literally fucking sucks. like yeah anakin was also a homicidal facist but the difference is anakin was camp. he was hot while doing it. he had the dramatic flair. he’s badass. he’s intimidating. he’s the most iconic movie villain of all time. kyle is literally just an emo neo nazi. there is zilch that is interesting about his character. sorry for speaking the truth

[fanfic-lover-girl]

Demonization of the Enemies to Lovers Trope

I find it very disingenuous when Zutara antis compare or lump Zutara with problematic ships like Reylo and Dramione. Anyone who makes a claim like this should have not any opinions about ATLA respected. Because they obviously did not watch the show.

There are major differences that set Zutara apart from Reylo and Dramione.

Zutara vs Dramione - Friendship

Zuko and Katara reconciled and became very close friends in season 3. Draco and Hermione disliked each other in canon and the best of their relationship was civility. Dramione could have served the same narrative function as Zutara by representing union after war but Dramione lacked the canon building blocks that Zutara had.

Zutara vs Reylo - Redemption

Zuko has a powerful redemption arc. But even when Zuko was an antagonist, he was never truly evil. And Zuko's actions towards Katara (eg tying her to a tree) were not completely monstrous. Zuko and Katara never crossed any boundaries while enemies. When Katara starts showing compassion to Zuko, it is in season 2 when Zuko is no longer an active threat (eg. offering to heal Iroh and their emotional moment in the catacombs). Compare this to Reylo where there are all these romantic undertones while Reylo and Kylo are still enemies. Kylo also has a worse record than Zuko: murdering his dad, oppressing countless people, killing civilians, and maiming people. And Rey for some reason, before Kylo does anything to deserve it, begins to feel sorry for him. Unlike Zuko, we don't see Kylo truly atone for what he did to Rey. Not to mention the abusive elements in their relationship such as Kylo calling Rey worthless.

The point is that people need to stop demonizing enemies to lovers ships. And stop lumping healthy ships like Zutara with more toxic ships like Dramione and Reylo. It's not a fair comparison.

[third-generation-female-warrior]

Okay, so, fair warning, this is an anti-Reylo, anti-Kylo Ren, long analysis of The Acolyte, so if you choose to read this and get mad at me for bashing Kylo Ren, that's called a you problem.

Basically, seeing people compare the "situationship" between Quimir and Osha with whatever the fuck Reylo was and putting them on equal pedestals gives me the ick and I think I figured out why.

For clarity, I can't fucking stand Reylo for a lot of reasons, but for the sake of my analysis, I'll keep it condensed for why I can't stand Kylo Ren.

He is the warm mayonnaise of characters.

Don't get me wrong, he was generally interesting in The Force Awakens, when he was framed as the monster with a human face, and that's because the narration in TFA treated him like the goddamn villain he was supposed to be.

And then the pants were shat and the spine was broken when the narrative with The Last Jedi and The Rise of Skywalker was doing backflips on a trampoline trying to give him pathos, trying to make him empathetic, while also decimating literally every other character to put him on a pedestal he didn't deserve on his spit-washed "redemption" arc.

To me, it was like they didn't know what to do with him. Those movies might have been okay if they just stuck with making him the villain and continued to treat him as such. But they didn't, even when he was making bad choices and did nothing but make BAD choices up until the actual last fight, and instead, framed all of this BAD CHOICES as "he's complicated~~ <3" and that's where it all fell apart because the narration didn't like, punish him AT ALL for making these bad and barely even framed these as objectively bad choices.

Now, the Acolyte is different.

In the middle of lavishing us with the eye candy that is Manny Jacinto, and Qimir's apparent lack of threat and honesty to Osha, the narrative did something interesting and brilliant that I hope they continue to lean into.

While showing us how non-threatening Qimir can be, we are given a very rude awakening.

When we cut back to Khofar, it is a very long, very uncomfortable lingering shot of Jekki's dead body, as she is positioned towards the audience with open eyes, not quite looking at the camera, but forcing us to look into the eyes of Jekki all the same.

It is a rude awakening, a reminder that Qimir is a deceiver, and, most importantly THE VILLAIN OF THE SHOW!!!!

Under the facade of the hapless sidekick to Mae was the Sith Master waiting to strike her down should she fail.

A reminder that, through his honesty and intentions with not harming Osha, he is a murderer who could remorselessly justify his own slaughter of an actual child.

We look on as it shows Yord in the dirt, and the pile of dead Jedi bodies and we see that what Qimir has done was terrible and devastating he does not care, even if we do.

And THEN, ohohoh!!! AND THEN! We see how his dark deeds were not solely committed on Khofar, but he is continuing to do terrible things on Ahch-To the Unknown Planet.

Oh, we thought, we thought Osha was safe because she could pin him with his own lightsaber, she could kill him, she could leave!

But it becomes very evident in the last 30 seconds that Osha was never safe as she puts on his helmet, surrounds herself in dark, and symbolically succumbs to it as she closes her eyes.

He has been corrupting her this whole time and that's treated AS A BAD THING, and THAT'S where The Acolyte succeeds and The Sequels failed!

Qimir for his apparent defensiveness, is still treated as the villain, his act of corruption and seducing Osha to the dark side is treated as a scary thing, where you shake your head at the t.v. and beg her to not do it even if you know she's going to anyways.

And then you realize the answer to his riddle to Mae.

You realize this is how you kill a Jedi without a weapon.

And it's all very very wrong.

And, better yet, to finish this off, even though the narration establishes MOTIVE for his anti-Jedi stance, with his scar leading to his supposed backstory of betrayal (that we have to take at face-value for now, even if I think there's more to reveal), the motivation is just narratively justifying him or his actions, and he is STILL THE VILLAIN WHO MUST BE STOPPED!!

[antianakin]

Number 9 for the ask game! For both disneycanon and legends :)

9. worst part of canon

Man, this is a hard question to answer, mostly because there's so many things I could answer.

So I am assuming here that when you say "Legends" you actually just mean Lucas canon that existed pre Disney canon since "Legends" has never been and will never be canon in and of itself. If you were hoping to hear me speak about something that was ACTUALLY from Legends, I'm very sorry, but I'm not familiar enough with it and I don't think it works for the prompt anyway, so all of my answers are going to be from Disney Canon or Lucas Canon.

Some of these will land more in the realm of "the concept is fine/good, the execution was bad" and some will be more "the concept in and of itself is awful regardless of whether it was executed well or not."

In the Ahsoka show, the concept of Ahsoka facing her past with Anakin and how that's impacted who she's become is a great idea and it's really the only way to move her character forward, but the execution of it was so badly done that I wish it had never happened and we'd just never seen Ahsoka again or ever learned what she felt about Anakin. I've spoken enough about this show for anyone more familiar with me to know why I feel that way. If you haven't read my posts about it and want to hear more of them, you can search under the tags "ahsoka show" and "anti ahsoka show."

Turning the Darksaber into Mandalorian Excalibur is, perhaps controversially, a bad concept. It's introduced in the hands of a Mandalorian, sure, but it's also introduced specifically as a stolen Jedi relic. And between those two things, somehow the fact that it was in the hands of a Mandalorian got considered the more important part of it rather than the fact that it was a JEDI relic that got stolen from them.

And unfortunately turning the Darksaber into Mandalorian Excalibur has made the Mandos even more boring than they already were. It forces everything that was established about them in TCW to be basically erased and ignored. The whole aspect of them having a government of any kind, having a Council and a Prime Minister, is gone, and leaders are chosen by who can wield a stolen relic real good (or, more accurately, who can wield a DIFFERENT WEAPON well enough to defeat the person who IS wielding the stolen relic) rather than chosen more democratically by the people themselves.

The Darksaber also just isn't even being used very well in the narrative. It got handed to Sabine and we went through an entire lovely arc for her to earn it both the Jedi way and the Mandalorian way only for her to hand it off the very next season to someone who hadn't earned it at all. Then that person loses it and it somehow ends up in the hands of Din Djarin who seems to START an arc about earning it only for that to just get completely dropped so he can hand it right back to the same person Sabine handed it to last time and then it gets destroyed a few episodes later. There's not been any point to the Darksaber at all since it first showed up in Pre Viszla's hands in TCW. It should've stayed a fancy-looking stolen Jedi relic (and arguably should've just been handed back to the Jedi) if they weren't going to do a single interesting thing with any of the Mandos who ended up with it.

Moving on from the Darksaber, and looking at the Sequels, I think killing off all of Luke's Jedi students and destroying Leia's New Republic was a terrible terrible idea as a concept. I understand the idea of like... "Darkness always comes back, the fight is never completely over" but destroying ALL OF THE PROGRESS made in the last trilogy by the main characters just to force the new characters to do the exact same thing all over again is stupid. There are ways to do "darkness always comes back" as a theme without making Luke, Leia, and Han's arcs completely irrelevant. It doesn't feel hopeful by the end anymore, it just feels a little pointless because if everything is always going to be destroyed over and over again then why try to build anything at all? What's the fucking point of it all if none of the triumphs last long enough to mean anything?

And adding onto that, making the New Republic completely incompetent and also so horrible that they're basically the Empire in all but name feels equally frustrating as a concept because now not only were they destroyed before anything meaningful could be done with them, but it's not even a bad thing that they were destroyed because Leia failed long before Starkiller blew up those five planets. The New Republic was a failure from the moment of its inception because it's just filled with and run by cowards and greedy assholes who won't help anyone or do anything useful at all apparently.

I won't touch on R*ylo much because plenty of other people have, but everything about that was awful and it never should've been made canon.

While we're on romantic failures, I don't think Obi-Wan has ever needed a romantic interest, but that doesn't mean it couldn't be done well. But Obitine just wasn't it. Obitine was executed so incredibly poorly that it just made both characters radically less interesting and if I didn't already enjoy Obi-Wan as a character, his relationship with Satine would probably turn me off of Obi-Wan entirely given that he's literally a sexist asshole to her. Obitine never should've happened and if they HAD to do it, they should've gotten better writers to handle it so that it didn't ruin a beloved character as a result.

I'm sure there's more I could complain about, but that's what's coming to mind right now.

[darthteeth]

The thing is villain x heroine IS interesting at it can be done well(honestly bad tropes are rare imo the execution is what makes or breaks them)but the way heterosexuals are going about it is all wrong.they keep skipping to the good part so to speak,you need right amount of time to build up the romance AND more importantly you need the heroine to be able to match his evilness,but they can never do that.

genuinely so tired of running into this trope just to see yet another scaryevilhypermasculineguy going after a super dainty small girlie who couldn't hurt a fly and it's like what are u doing??making gender roles 2.0??what is this?why do you want to protect her imagined innocence so bad,if she truly wants him the heroine can't be that good of a person.I get that "opposites attract"is a super common trope but I find it really nonsensical in hetero writing because it's always taken to such an extreme.so if u sit down for a second and really think about the relationship there is no way the characters in question would ever be into each other...

and when it comes to the osha/qimir ship yeah the chemistry is there-but it's mostly because the actors have strong chemistry not because the writing set it up well.ever since the last episode and the interview where the creator confirms the r*ylo inspiration dropped all I could think about is "man,osha is too independent for this shit".

Like that's one of her main characteristics/flaws that's why she couldn't handle the coven setting and honestly I bet it's partially why she left the jedi.she REALLY wants to be her own person but qimir REALLY craves codependency/strong loyalty which is way more of a mae's thing than osha's.but that would require an audience willing to empathize with a female characters that isn't """perfect""" and all of this is not touching how qimir seems so interesting/sinister and beyond whatever silly projection fans have of him idk idk idk we will see how this goes I guess ��

[stylesmilky]

What the fuck reylos. Our Miguel is right here:

[mfshipbracket]

voting for reylo almost exclusively because i want someone's ship, someone's dearly beloved treasured ship, to be the one to lose to reylo

new threat for the arsenal: "i hope your otp loses to reylo"

[icedsodapop]

Reylo and kylo ren asshole stans who harassed John Boyega and made his life hell really have no business going crazy over Manny Jacinto 😒😒

[jynjackets]

they’re not reylo because osha isn’t sidelined from the narrative to support his goals. from her perspective we see how it makes complete sense why someone like her, (a dedicated, loving yet outcasted former jedi) is questioning where she belongs. Qimir may want to use her and obviously feigning kindness to get her to trust him, but he also genuinely wants a pupil that unlocks the power of the dark side. And he sees that power in osha and it’s this obsession with her that’s undeniably tempting especially for someone who hasn’t quite been given back the loyalty and devotion that she openly offers.

its “toxic” because it’s supposed to be. and we love watching these dynamics unfold because they reflect the ugly truths of human nature. we do things to feel love even if it’s in artificial forms. we incessantly give with the illogical hopes that we might receive something back. how the dark side pulls someone such as osha therefore becomes realistic. and what is more appealing than to allow yourself recognition you never had. to let your emotions be unrestrained and even be your greatest strength. what else could you do when someone finally tells you that there’s more out there for you, and can grant you unspeakable power that’s always been just out of reach

[yourhighness6]

I'm such a hypocrite because I'll see a toxic m/f ship and be like "bleh! ew! get it away from me! ew!" but I'll see a toxic f/f or m/m ship and I'll be like "oooh tell me more"

[leantailean]

write in the tags why do you think so?