#not trying to claim to have any disorders or anything

[yourlocalmissingtexture]

Fuck me, anxiety attack, fought it off all night up to this point

Can’t do much to relieve the cause of it but wait unfortunately

Why do I have to get obsessed fml. Like it’s nobody’s fault but fuck

Uh, any mutuals or whoever that see this, recommendations for calming down and not worrying about the worst possible things regarding your favorite person? Please?

(I’m serious please reply or dm suggestions)

[plethorawrites]

How the Batboys would react to finding out and dealing with you self harming/having severe depression.

TW: Mentions of cuts, blood, suicidal thoughts, incorrect use of pills, sort of implied eating disorders.

Please don't read if this could upset you in any way.

---___---___---___---___---___---___---___---___---_

Bruce:

The first time he notices is also the first time you spend the night. The lights were dark and you were both a bit buzzed after downing several glasses of champagne to endure a boring event he invited you to as an excuse to see you. Of course he was more concerned with kissing the inside of your thighs than noticing the little healed scars on them.

He notices them the next morning though, when the sun is streaming through the window and you get up to find your clothes while assuming he's asleep. He wasn't. He saw the marks. The scars. He refrained from saying a word about them, waiting weeks for you to open up about them on your own terms. He could see they were healed so he wasn't terribly worried at that moment.

When you finally told him, you said you'd been clean for months. He had no reason to suspect you would start again.

But you did.

He didn't know the exact day, or the specific reason, all he knew is that you stopped wearing shorts to bed and stopped letting him leave the lights on to see you when you were intimate. You stopped smiling as often, too.

Of course, being a detective, he can tell when you start getting lethargic, not from work or stress but simply life itself. He hears when your words have less meaning, and your expressions are false. He makes it his mission to not let you fall into the spiral any more than you already have.

You might not want to tell him you're hurting yourself but he'd be damned if he didn't do whatever he could to make you stop. That started by holding you tighter at night so you couldn't sneak off to the bathroom to cut, he'd ask you to visit him at work, insist on every meal being at a restaurant so you didn't even have time to try to hurt yourself. And of course, he helps with the tasks you start struggling with, but pretends he doesn't notice.

He just says "Can I practice braiding your hair so I can help Cassandra?" and use it as a chance to make sure you don't start letting your hair tangle.

He even makes the braid a bit crooked even though he can French braid perfectly, just to sell it. He'll wash it, too, claiming it's: "A good excuse to spend time together." after a long day.

He just wants to make sure it's not getting greasy. He can see the guilt on your face when you sit in the tub, staring at the wall. You wanted to tell him to stop, that you could wash your own hair. But you probably couldn't. It felt like too much work and you just wanted to sink underneath the water of the tub for a few minutes of peace. He kept you upright though, kissing the back of your shoulder, the side of your neck, your cheek, making you hum.

You weren't able to feel much, emotionally speaking, but you could feel gratitude and love.

When he notices you skipping meals because you can't drag yourself to the kitchen or bother to cook, he will. He'll make anything, even if you change your mind about what sounds good and make him cook six different dishes before eventually accepting one of them. He doesn't care. He just wants you to eat. The second you show the slightest bit of interest in something, anything, it's yours. You make a comment about the beach sounding nice, the next thing you know he's taken the day off work and is driving you there with the top of a convertible down.

You say you kind of miss one of your old hobbies— be it painting or crochet, it doesn't matter what, the next day the nicest stuff for you to get back into it arrives. Fresh paints, massive canvases or imported yarn and crystal hooks. He watches, intently when you start to focus on something you like again, the heavy ache in his heart subsiding when he gets to show enthusiasm about your project when it's done.

You start holding him again at night, your face buried in his chest instead of sleeping facing the wall. One night you slide into bed wearing shorts and he can see your scars, red ones among the old faded pale ones from when you first met.

He knows they'll heal too in time. Just like you have.

---

Dick: He doesn't realize there's anything wrong several months into dating you until he catches you taking some pills when he was walking back into the room and later searched up the name, figuring out they're antidepressants.

He can't believe he didn't see it sooner and hates that you were always putting on a fake smile with him. He wants you to talk about it, but understands that it's hard for you too and your every attempt to open up to him ends with you in tears or walking out in frustration because the words won't form.

He suggests (very strongly) that you see a therapist and after some gentle coaxing, you agree. He sits in the car the entire time waiting for you and when you come out, numb for a few minutes as you sit there in silence before sobbing uncontrollably for the 20 minutes in the parking lot. He gets you whatever you want after— ice cream, cheesecake, brownies. Whatever you're craving.

He takes you every week, sometimes multiple times a week. He never complains and he's ALWAYS there. He'll wake up early, even if he barely slept. He'll skip family lunch, he'll rush out of a bank robbery just shouting for his brothers to handle it without him. It doesn't matter what, he'll be there.

He's taken to heavy positive affirmations, as well. He puts sticky notes up in the bathroom with smiley faces for whenever you brush your teeth or put on moisturizer. There are little hearts and words of encouragement on the front of the fridge and inside of it too for when you manage to crave a snack. Hopefully something healthy like fruit, but even if it's junk food, it's better than an empty stomach.

Every morning he wakes you up and tells you you're beautiful and he's grateful to have you.

He likes to remind you not to push yourself as well. "If you just manage to wash your hair, you'll have done something" and "If that's too hard, I'll help you make the bed." But also..."If you don't do anything at all today, you still survived. That alone is difficult, but you're doing it."

Every night he lays it on even thicker because he knows it gets harder at night. "I'm so proud of you for making it through another day." And... "I know it sucks right now but I promise I'll help you get through this." And... "Just take it one day at a time."

When you get homework from your therapist— to do 3 hard tasks over one week, make a list of every negative and positive thought to see them out loud and deduce why you have them, physical exercise—he does it with you. No matter how foolish or seemingly simple it is.

Your therapist told you to do something you struggle with? Done. He'll stand behind you while you do the dishes and help you dry.

You need to get something from a store that's dozens of miles away? Road trip. He'll buy the snacks and take turns driving so you don't het stressed out burn out.

You're told to get some physical exercise? He'll be your partner for whatever kind you want to do. Jogging in the park, keeping a slower pace than usual for you, practicing on rings while you climb the stairmaster—he falls, because he's distracted by your ass. But that's besides the point.

When you start to show signs of feeling better, that therapy is working, he's elated. And after several months and things are better, much better, you tell him whenever you're feeling off. Whenever that nagging feeling comes back over you. You guys work through it then and there to keep it from getting bad again.

Though sometimes, when he's leaving for work, you'll pout and say you feel sad just to get him to stay. You both know it's not a depressed feeling. You just don't want him to leave and he'll indulge you. "Oh, well, if that's the case, I'll just have to stay in bed with you until you feel better."

---

Jason: He's busy. Always. But that didn't mean he was oblivious. Yet, that's exactly how he felt when he realized you'd been abusing your medicine. He knew after the first few dates that you were on medication for chronic depression and he was more than understanding about it. Millions of people suffered from it, himself occasionally included.

But when he's laying in bed and catches you sneaking into the bathroom to take three more pills than you're supposed to, he's caught off guard. Then you slide down to the floor, sitting crisscrossed, making small cuts on your thighs, wincing in pain the entire time. It takes every ounce of self control not to jump out of bed and rip the blade from your hand. He contemplates it, he really does. But that would just make things worse. So he waits.

It keeps him up all night, though he pretends to sleep. And in the morning, you're back out of bed, taking more and sliding back in bed, pretending to wake up just like him.

He blames himself entirely.

He thinks he should have been better, done more, noticed something that made it better. It was his job to support you and protect you and he had failed and that killed him in ways that seemed unimaginable.

After an incredibly difficult conversation where he confesses to knowing you've been filling scripts you don't need and taking more than necessary, you're both an emotional mess. But he assures you he's not leaving or angry, just scared for you. He wants to help but needs you to let him.

He absolutely dedicates himself to keeping you away from anything even remotely dangerous.

The knives in the kitchen? Gone.

Even the butter knives are plastic now.

The razors in the bathroom? Thrown out in a trashcan outside so you couldn't find them.

Even the little blade in the pencil sharpener is taken out.

He won't let you have your pill bottles either, at least not at first. He makes sure you take them everyday, morning and night, then after several weeks starts to let you handle them by yourself.

He still sneaks out of bed to count them and make sure you weren't taking more than prescribed. He insists on being the one to wrap your arms, cleaning them to make sure they don't get infected. And wiping your legs as well. He has to remind himself not to squeeze them too hard, the way he wants to.

While holding you at night he makes sure not to hurt them, even though he wants to hold you much tighter to comfort himself as reassurance you're alright. He listens, late at night when you're whispering to avoid crying. When you explain the feeling it gave you. He knows it.

Once they heal and he can hold you tighter, not as afraid of hurting you by squeezing your thighs the way he likes to. He starts kissing them each night, making sure you know they're not embarrassing or shameful.

He's got scars on most of his body; you were the one to teach them to appreciate them. If he could return the favor, he would. A thousand times over.

He tells you the same things you told him. "You made it through."

---

Tim: When you tell Tim, and by tell I mean confess after he figured it out on his own, you're surprised to find that he doesn't have much of a reaction immediately. He stays quiet, hums a little, nods along. He never interrupts but you see his eyes glazing over a bit, the way they do when the gears start turning in his head. He knew, of course, that you had depression.

He knew you hurt yourself, not in the traditional way of cutting or attempting suicide, but in much subtler ways, like forcing yourself to finish a meal even though you're full and your stomach hurts, taking boiling hot showers that leave your skin red and raw practically painful to even touch from how dry it is, making yourself stay up late and function on the fewest hours of sleep possible.

You purposely made life harder for yourself and for the most part, didn't even realize it. He did, though. What he didn't realize was the amount of medicine you'd tried, to the point you felt none of them worked, the amount of therapists and psychiatrists you had seen, the level of depression you had truly sunk to before. It hurt him to realize once you started opening up. He wanted to make that pain go away. So, he researched. Constantly.

He wants to know every single thing that can cause depression, the statistics of self harm leading to suicide, the effectiveness of different treatments or facilities. He knows every antidepressant, their side effects, their manufacturers, and dosages. He suggests inpatient care for you, but absolutely refuses to send you to someplace like Arkham.

Instead, he finds the best of the best, way out of the city, where the entire staff passed his background check, the facility was up to date on every code possible, and the rules seemed relaxed enough to let you feel like yourself while also making sure you're safe. He's allowed to visit and does so as soon as possible, even manages to get extra hours in the night. You have the best of care there, too, he knows because he can see it on your face every time he's there.

The food is wonderful, the private room you have is nice (even if you miss his warmth at night), the activities they make you do remind you of the hobbies you used to love before they became unbearable. Even therapy sessions, always private because Tim knew you wouldn't want to speak about it in a group, are rather helpful.

When you get out after a few weeks, he's right there, waiting, like always. And he's got the biggest smile because he can see immediately the light back in your eyes that he missed so much. He keeps up with some of the tactics you learned or hobbies you started while there, gladly sitting on the floor with you while you do paper mache.

He always makes sure you know you're not weak for needing help and if you ever feel like you need to go back, even just for a week, or weekend, he'll be there for you. Just like always.

---

(Aged up. I imagine you both in LOA)

Damian: It didn't take a genius to know you were a miserable person. Most people in the league of assassins were. He rather liked your level of misery, usually. It was cynical, with a touch of wit and dark humor that always made him feel seen.

It wasn't until he caught sight of a few scars on your calf that he didn't recognize that he started to realize you were more miserable than he had originally thought. You tried to play it off, claiming you got hurt in a sparring match. But that was a lot and he knew it. Because A) you never lost. And B) the cut was at an angle a sword wouldn't be able to reach unless you were the one holding it.

You clearly didn't want to talk about it, so he wouldn't make you. He was always taught that emotions were weak and even though he didn't fully believe it as he used to, he still isn't big on a lot of sentimentality. Which is fine, because you aren't either.

He still keeps a quiet, very close eye on you. Maybe you noticed, maybe you didn't. He wasn't sure. He didn't care either way. He was worried and with your recent behavior, he felt he had every right to be. You started putting in less effort during training, if you even showed up at all. He'd find you on the balcony at night, leaning your head against the railing and staring at the gardens with a blank expression.

Even the things he knew you loved— your favorite foods, the music you liked to listen to on a record player while you got ready for bed. It stopped appealing to you. The meticulous way you'd fix your hair before bed every single night abruptly stopped, too. You simply fell asleep with it as is and woke up with it tangled. You still held him at night, but it felt less like an embrace for the both of you and more like you were clinging to him like a life line.

He pays extra close attention and anytime he isn't allowed to be by your side, he makes sure someone else is. It's hard to keep you away from sharp objects, given nearly everything around them was a weapon, but he tries to get you to vent your rage by cutting training dummies and not yourself.

He also takes you to the quieter, more secluded wing, into an empty room with pillows on the floor. He makes you sit with him and meditate, which he knows is hard at first, boring and you don't have the most energy, but he holds your hand, his fingers pressed to your pulse to make sure you're listening when he tells you to take a deep breath in and think— not of what you're grateful for, like some might suggest. No. Instead of asking you what you want to live for, he asks you what you can't die without. The grudges you're holding, the projects you haven't finished, the people who are just waiting to see you fail. He won't let you let them win.

And it works. That passion and drive slowly comes back with his help and support at your side, doing your hair for you at night and making sure someone brought you a meal three times a day even if he wasn't around to make sure you ate. Your need to be the best and spite anyone who thinks you aren't returns after a while.

One night he finds you training alone, sweat dripping from your brow, your scars both won in battle and self inflicted on display. Instead of interrupting, he simply watches, admiring your form which had improved since you started picking up your sword more often. He loved watching you find your spirit again.

[hel1houndz]

what actually are endogenic systems?

• Endogenic is an umbrella term that refers to all systems that are not completely traumagenic in origin.

Why are some people claiming to be endo?

• people claiming to be endogenic systems may:

• be misdiagnosed, they may not have DID/OSDD and may have a different disorder.

• may not have researched. Which is not a excuse. You cannot claim to have any disorder without any level of research.

• they may be a traumatic system in denial of there trauma.

• singlets with fractitious disorders [Factitious disorders are conditions in which a person deliberately and consciously acts as if they have a physical or mental illness when they are not really sick.]

•singlets misidentifying normal experiences

• singlets who enjoy "being a system" finding it fun etc

Why can't endos exist?

• as previously stated. DID/OSDD is a TRAUMA RESPONSE DISORDER. you cannot have it without trauma literally.

• OSDD/DID occurs because of childhood trauma between the ages 4-9 (commonly). Because extreme trauma happens when the majority of your "personality" is formed by then. the trauma interferes with your personality development, causing the formation of other alters to help cope with that trauma / deal with the brunt of the trauma and survive day to day life.

• OCDD/DIDs can only be formed through trauma.

Why are endos so harmful?

• they spread very harmful misinformation. (Even the idea of being endogenic, forming without trauma)

they spread dangerous misinformation and stigma (demonising roles (persecutors for example)) impossible beliefs (alter death, sys hopping etc)There growing presence in general on many platforms

• endos trying to say that they have any experience to anything close to the serious trauma that causes DID/ OSDD is so so harmful to actual DID/ OSDD have had to live through and survive.

• WE ARE ALREADY STIGMATISED AND DEMONSIED IN ALL SORTS OF MEDIA AS IS.

• IT IS SO HARMFUL AND HURTFUL TO SYSTEMS WHO HAVE ACTUALLY SURVIVED AND BEEN THROUGH THE HORRORS AND TRAUMA THAT CAUSES DID/OSDD - OUR TRAUMAS ARE NOT BADGES FOR YOU TO WEAR.

- blurred asf

[giritina]

I think sometimes about how so many people discourage labels and specificity and pathologizing anything about yourself and frame it as countercultural. Meanwhile, people in the mainstream will tell you the same. I think about this because I have talked with a lot of people about the schizophrenia spectrum who absorbed the idea that diagnosis doesn't matter, labels don't matter, just get help for who you are... and they felt empty and hopeless. The therapy wasn't working, the medicine wasn't working. Their symptoms didn't make them look different than other people on the outside, but on the inside, their experience was specific. The specificity is the only thing that gave them the chance to find any solace at all.

The DSM is flawed, but I question those that seem to want to abolish psychiatry and specificity and claim we're all experiencing one thing. We're all experiencing the trauma of the outside world. There's no reason for these words. Etc etc. There's clearly some scientific flaw in categorization when most people will walk out of a psych eval with a long list of disorders, but I resent those who say that the simple discomfort of seeing a long list is what's wrong there; that specificity, "pathology", is the enemy. When you have a word for a specific experience, you can research it, you can help it. If we name every bacteria, we can understand each one, but naming mental illnesses seems to make even mental health professionals uncomfortable. So many people deny us specificity. They hate it when we come and ask to be treated for X thing we suspect we have. They hate when we form an identity around our mental condition. They fold everything into one big name. Anxiety. Depression. CPTSD. Then we accept that and try to get help, and we feel nothing. We try to form an identity, and we're told that forming an identity around a diagnosis is pathologizing and wrong. Even some leftists want to tell you it's wrong. It's unnatural. There's no point to it.

Meanwhile, I always remember reading how people with schizophrenia spectrum illnesses seemed to benefit greatly from narrative therapy where they related and made community over their collective oppression. They used schizophrenia and ableism to unite and be more than an individual, but also to be something that really tangibly in the world at all. Disability theory brings us together, a refusal to view the self as any different from abled people often only isolates us.

(From Recovery of the Self in Psychosis)

[thebibliosphere]

Hey! I know that this isn't something you struggle with but since a lot of your other followers are disabled as well, it would mean a lot to me if you could publish this ask since I'd like to see if anyone else experiences anything similar to what I'm going through. I'm not asking for anyone to armchair diagnose me, I'd just appreciate not feeling so alone and scared and confused. My general physician is claiming that my anxiety is causing the issues I'll describe but I call bullshit on that:

About two years ago, cca 4 months after my top surgery, my body stopped being able to process oil. Whenever I'd eat anything that was made with oil of any kind, I'd get cramps in the abdomen after a while and I'd get diarrhea. Caffeine started to do this also but in a smaller intensity. I had a hysterectomy a bit after that and they checked my kidneys and liver so I know that those are both ok and not the cause. I also got checked for Celiac since it runs in the family. Because the issue wasn't getting worse and my then general physician was always dismissive, I let it be. When I wasn't having diarrhea, I was constipated, though I did have a bowel movement like once or twice a week. Fast forward to now. In August, it suddenly got a lot worse. At first, even a single drop of oil would make me feel ill. Then, the time period got longer - currently the cramps and the pain last for 48 hours afterwards. I also became unable to digest animal fats, the only meat I can eat is lean chicken and fish. Afterwards, gluten became an issue (Celiac is still negative), and then nuts as well.

My new GP, even though she believes it to be anxiety, gave me Itopride, and it worked for about 3 weeks - I had no cramps, pain, exhaustion, gas or bloating after eating, and I had a bowel movement once a day. But it stopped working two days ago, again without a reason, and the effects started being less effective about a week ago. Even when taking the meds, I have a movement only once in about 8 days, and laxatives make me gassy but nothing happens. I'm also not sure about this, but it seems that chicken is no longer safe either.

I think it's important that if I don't take Itopride, I never even feel the urge to go, so when I say that I've always been constipated, I mean that I don't even feel the need to have a movement. Lately, when I take Itopride, I do get the urge that I do always get when taking it, but it's like I can't go, so I always feel full.

I just feel super scared and I have no idea what's going on. I admit that I have a history of eating disorders (in recovery since May) and I did abuse laxatives about a year ago, but I don't think it was enough to cause such serious issues? I used to take them like once a week and for about 3-4 months.

I'd really appreciate knowing if anyone has ever experienced anything similar or knows about anything like this because I feel like my life is in shambles - can't go outside for long because I might need the toilet suddenly, or I'm in too much pain to walk, I'm afraid to eat, I often feel repulsive, I don't know what might happen in a month, I am becoming incapable of taking care of myself and my flat because I'm just so goddamn tired.

Ooft, I’m sorry. It sounds like you’ll need a colonoscopy to figure this one out, so if you haven’t had one yet, really push for a referral.

Fwiw, I do experience something like this, but it’s from mast cell inflammation in my GI tract. The doc prescribed me bentyl for when things flare up but I’m also on a fiber supplement (citrucel. It’s a lot gentler than other types) to try and keep that from happening. Also if you’re low on b vitamins, your stomach sometimes stops digesting food, so maybe also ask about getting your levels checked. Taking an additional b2 supplement means I can process fats and oils again which I couldn’t before.

I’m not saying this to be like “this is what you have” just throwing them out there as suggestions that might help you piece together what might be wrong.

I hope you get more helpful comments in the notes 💖

[nekropsii]

Aww. On one hand, I'm glad my words touched you. On the other, it makes me so deeply sad knowing even the smallest glance towards granting one basic human dignity is enough to drive one to tears. I wouldn't even call my words the bare minimum - I don't think that countering the common idea that a group isn't inherently abusive should be the bare minimum. The bare minimum should be casual respect, the same that's afforded to any other person. The bare minimum should be me not even needing to say any of this in the first place.

NPD is so heavily demonized, especially right now. There's wave after wave of people claiming "Narcissistic Abuse" is a valid term and viciously attacking anyone who breathes in the direction of contradiction, every single search adjacent to NPD results in almost nothing but article after article on, specifically, how to hurt people with NPD, or protect yourself against them... There's conspiracy theory after conspiracy theory posted online quite literally painting them as actual real demons, like, Demons, from The Bible, or linking them to the Jewish Reptilian conspiracy theory, and it's just completely and utterly gut-wrenching. Even in spaces that proclaim themselves as safe, or progressive, or bigotry-free, these unjustified, bigoted snap judgments occur. It's the worst.

NPD is not something that I have. I don't have any Cluster B Disorder, actually. But I'm sympathetic because they're all fucking human beings the world has decided is socially acceptable to turn into a Sinister Other, a Walking Otherworldly Threat, like this is a fucking fiction novel or a video game. I'm sick of it.

There's a few people in my immediate circles who have NPD. They're all good people. They're nice, they're funny, they have perspectives on things that I deeply value, they're smart, and I treasure their proximity so much. They've never done anything wrong, and certainly haven't done anything wrong purely on the basis of being some Evil, Conniving Super Villain. They're literally just hanging out, and I'm glad to know them. My life is better and more enriched having known these people. They have never wronged me, and I don't think they ever will. And even if they do, it would not be because they have NPD, it would be because they're a living being. As people, we all have the capability to harm others. Animals have the capability to harm other animals, too. Plants can harm you. This is not a trait unique to the Disordered.

Us people without NPD need to do better, to listen to our friends and siblings with NPD, to help boost them up so that we can help end this wretched fucking curse - or, at the very least, quell it. We need to help them speak louder, and amplify their cause with our vocal support. Ableism will never go away, but the least we can do is try to move towards making it not as socially acceptable to be bigoted. None of us need a Sinister Other to combat. This is not war, this is not the medieval times. We do not need this. We do not need to beat a persecution complex into ourselves to excuse persecuting others. We do not need to live in constant fear of the idea of the line cook who just wants to go home and play Dark Souls, or the office worker passing the time by thinking about their 3 cats, or the high schooler at home reading their favorite shoujo manga, or the guitarist driving home tapping their fingers on the steering wheel to the beat of the radio. These are not your enemies. They are people going about their lives. They've literally never hurt you. Stop projecting your fear of abuse onto strangers - onto minorities.

My message to people without NPD is to fucking check yourself if you believe in Narcissistic Abuse, or automatically assume that people with NPD are up to something. Especially right now, that is a very, very vile, dehumanizing form of absolutely rampant ableism that we needed to take extreme steps to mitigate fucking months ago. Years, even. The best time to shoot this bigotry and burn it's corpse was the moment it started rising. The second best time is Now. Interrogate yourself. Realize that people with NPD are literally just human beings. Stop being awful to your fellow person. The way people think and speak about people with NPD is just absolutely disgusting, and everyone needs to apologize to them right now.

My message to people with NPD is simple: You deserve one billion dollars for having to put up with all of this shit. It's actually deranged. Trust me, there are others out there that think this is horseshit. You are not alone.

[hiiragi7]

If you genuinely think intersex people are safer or more widely accepted than trans people, you do not know anything about intersex people. Being so incredibly blind to intersex oppression that you would say things like that (especially if you're someone who gets defensive over it when intersex people try to educate you) makes you a poor ally to intersex people and actively feeds into silencing our oppression and sweeping it under the rug.

Telling people you have a sex variation or a hormonal condition is not safer than telling people you are trans. It is callous to attempt to use us as a shield and then claim it doesn't harm anyone. So many of those in the queer and trans community know nothing about intersex oppression or how we are being killed too and it hurts.

I am both intersex and trans. These communities are siblings. Watching one sacrifice and then neglect the other over and over pains me. We are siblings, yet you use the intersex community when you think it suits you, and then you are silent when intersex people are screaming for our rights and for help. We have been fighting our oppression all this time, and it feels so often as though we are doing it alone. It especially hurts when the trans community, the sibling to the intersex community, claims the great harm we are facing either does not exist or that it is "not nearly as bad as what the trans community faces". Or, worse, erases us entirely by calling us "cis people with a disorder" rather than intersex.

When you claim to be intersex "for safety", you actively participate in erasing the unsafety we as intersex people face every day. Claiming you are intersex is no safer than being trans, and when you say it is safer, you erase how my community is being slaughtered, the laws that are pushed against us, the intersex babies that are mutilated at birth, the constant harassment, the high risk of sexual assault or violence when someone learns you're intersex, the medical malpractice and forced medical procedures, the way we are isolated socially, the insults, the mockery, the fetishization, and so on, and so on, and so on.

I understand the need to feel safe as an oppressed minority. However, saying that you are intersex "for safety" is not actually any safer at all. And when you claim it is, it harms my community. It works against the visibility of intersex issues that we have been trying to bring up for decades.

The harsh reality is that there is no way to be completely safe as a queer person in this world as it is right now. Telling others that intersex people have it better is a lie. We are all unsafe, all oppressed. Whatever illusion of safety you get from the lie that intersex people have it better is not worth the damage it does to intersex activism.

[sophieinwonderland]

Here's Ableist AspenFrostEN Trying To Pack as Much Misinformation and Ableism As She Can Into One Minute:

This sentence is, perhaps, the one and only true thing in this entire video.

Oh, please do enlighten me, Aspen!

I mean, sure, created systems are a thing. Tulpas are the main example of this and the ones that have been studied the most. But there are created systems that aren't tulpas, such as in daemonism.

Also, plenty of traumagenic DID systems have intentionally created alters too, so it's weird to make "people who believe that you can force yourself to have alters" an endogenic system thing.

ALSO, basically no tulpagenic system I know actually uses the word "alter" to describe their headmates.

While most endogenic systems are plural without a disorder, it's bizarre to use this as your definition instead of just "an endogenic systems is plural without trauma" as it's actually defined.

Founded entirely on Tumblr???

Aspen, dear...

Are you... capable of reading? Here's the paragraphs you're looking at. Notice how it says natural system predated the word endogenic?

Yes, the word endogenic was first used on Tumblr... as a replacement of "natural system" or "natural multiple" that dated back to the 90s, before you were even born!

Here's one site mentioning natural multiples in their glossary in 2003:

And here's the origin in a page dated for 1998:

You clearly know NOTHING about the plural history that you're rambling on about.

And how am I only 20 second into this???

What do you consider a medical consensus again?

The World Health Organization's ICD-11, the diagnostic handbook used around the world, explicitly states that you can experience multiple "distinct personality states," the characterizing feature of DID according to it, without having a mental disorder:

That's the World Health Organization's official handbook!!!

I'm not sure what more of a consensus you need.

But I'll add that Tulpamancy is acknowledged as a real psychological phenomenon by Dr. Samuel Veissiere, psychiatry professor at McGill University.

And Dr Eric Yarbough, Distinguished Fellow of the American Psychiatric Association has stated that you can be plural without trauma or a disorder in a book reviewed and published by the American Psychiatric Association.

And these claims are undisputed. There is no peer reviewed paper by any psychiatrist that has claimed you need trauma or a mental disorder to be plural.

Now, onto the next round of misinformation!

I recognize that page! That's DID-research! A glorified blog that convinced an entire generation that OSDD-1a and OSDD-1b were actual medical terms for disorders they could be diagnosed with!

(Spoiler: The aren't!)

Is that so?

It would probably be really inconvenient for this narrative if the creators of the theory of structural dissociation ALSO have said it may be possible people to form self-conscious dissociative parts of the personality without trauma, huh?

I mean, something like that would just completely destroy everything you're trying to sell and make you look even more like a hack who has no idea what she's talking about, wouldn't it?

...

...

...

This paper is by two of the authors of the Haunted Self, which I probably shouldn't need to tell you since you're so knowledgeable about plurality, is the book that created the theory of structural dissociation of the personality.

Even the creators of the theory you're citing are saying plurality could have other causes.

Wouldn't that require you to actually know what endogenic systems actually believe? Or, you know, literally anything about plural history? Or anything at all? 🤔

Now we're back to ableist Aspen having no idea what Schizophrenia is and using it as an insult. 🙄

Aspen is not hiding her intent. Her goal is to spread hate, to come into our communities and bully us.

Aspen is a liar, a bully and an abuser.

But I hope I've also demonstrated pretty thoroughly that on top of that, she also incredibly ignorant.

She's ignorant of psychiatry. She's ignorant of plural history.

Every word out of her mouth on this topic is a lie she made up, and hopes her followers will be gullible enough to swallow, because while she may act confident in her misinformation, the fact is that she doesn't know anything about what she's talking about.

[socsurveystuff]

Big Radqueer Survey Results

This is going to be pretty long. I may in the future take sections from this (+ maybe elaborate) and make them their own posts. Disclaimer that any viewpoints discussed below are not necessarily my own and that I am trying to approach this from a place of pure curiosity and am not including my own moral stances. Thank you everyone for taking the survey. We’ll get started under the read more!

Alright, so immediately we’re working with a large radqueer majority audience, so keep that in mind! There is some diversity overall, but this did end up being a very pro-radqueer heavy population. Fairly normal age distribution compared to the rest of tumblr, I’d say, though I would take note of the majority 13-18 population and significant under 16 population.

Big piece of data here!! Interestingly enough, about 76% of responders identified as plural or part of a system. Based on written responses, it appears like a lot of people cite their plurality as a reason for having certain transIDs. I got a few responders who stated they were answering as multiple alters and therefore there answers may be contradictory. There seem to be a minority of endogenic systems, with most people either answering ‘traumagenic’ or that they’re unsure/nuanced about system origin.

—TransIDs: Racial, Age, Abled—

I believe the visual charts for these look a bit busy, so I will summarize the main points I got here:

Out of being transabled, transage, and transracial—being transage is the most common according to responders. Most transage folks identify as being younger, but age sliding/experiencing several ages depending seems to also be common. Compared to the other types of transIDs listed, more people seemed to identify as transage due to trauma (others seemed more related to atypical dysphoria + wanting the label for fun).

For transabled people, identifying with both physical and mental disabilities is most common. Besides that, mental is more common than physical. More people reported being transabled ‘for fun’ compared to the others (though again, atypical dysphoria was majority reported). From what I’ve seen, identifying with life-long disorders (developmental, intellectual, chronic, etc) is more common than identifying with temporary conditions.

The majority of transracial people reported being bodily white, though not by a wide margin. Based on general tumblr demographics, I’d say there’s not really compelling data there to say whether bodily white people are more likely to identify as transrace within radqueer spaces than others; though, as one might expect, it seems that bodily race/ethnicity can have an influence in the different nuances as to *why* someone might identify as a different race/ethnicity.

I don’t have anything in particular to add to this graph, I just wanted to include it here. It’s surprisingly pretty evenly split.

—TransIDs: Harmed/Harmful—

Responses to these were actually really fascinating and helpful. I could write a whole other post on it, honestly.

I’ll do my best to summarize here.

The majority of people who identify as transharmed/harmful fit both labels. You can see this in the chart. Besides that, transharmed seems more common than harmful.

Based on written responses, it is very clear to me that identification with these labels tends to stem from trauma. Though some also claimed they take them on for fun or for sexual reasons, many *many* people specifically talked about wishing their trauma was worse. Over and over again I saw sentences like, “I feel like my trauma wasn’t valid”, “I feel like it should’ve been more severe”, “people would believe me if I was more traumatized”, “I wish people would take my issues more seriously”.

This is a very common mindset among people struggling with trauma and/or mental illness. Many responders reported having these feelings about past experiences with grooming and childhood abuse. Feeling like something bad should’ve happened to you when you were younger is also often a sign of CSA or other traumatic memories that one might’ve blocked out; in other situations, it may also come from a lack of support for already existing issues.

In some cases, seemingly more commonly in those who identified with the transharmful label, people might seek out this transID to cope with or mitigate guilt from intrusive thoughts. It can be an outlet for anger, some reporting that they find a type of relief in fantasizing about hurting the people who hurt them, or hurting people in the same way they were once hurt. For many, transharmed/harmful was also related to plurality—specifically the existence of fictives/introjects and their own memories of their source material.

Though some expressed distaste for the way the general radqueer community seems to have conflated transharmful/harmed labels for kink and the want to seek out conabusive relationships, there were several people who said that they identified with these terms for specifically erotic reasons.

There was also a common theme of gratefulness for a space to express commonly taboo desire in a way that minimizes potential for harm. Especially for people who were once abused, being able to experience these things in a controlled environment was important; the desire to return to abusers themselves is considered common, so the want to recreate some aspects staying away from actual abusive situations was noted as incredibly helpful.

As some did point out in the survey, the similarities between conabuse and (sexual or nonsexual) BDSM are very apparent. Consent was consistently reiterated as necessary to many of these people, though a few also expressed concern with the way conabusive relationships have played out specifically in online spaces.

The majority of responders were positive or nuanced towards the concept of conabusive relationships. The question of minors engaging in such relationships seemed like it really depended on the individual situation for many. Maturity especially was a big factor.

—Contact Stances for ‘Big Three’ + Incest—

(TW for… all the stuff that’s involved in discussing that)

Just to preface, the reason I including the ‘regardless of consent’ answer was mostly for the section on beastiality, necrophilia and pedophilia—online, I have rarely seen the opinion that engaging sexually with beings that do not understand or relate to our societal concepts of sex (or are… corpses) cannot be harmed by it. I am also aware that some people simply don’t care about committing harm. I included it here for consistency.

Consensual incest was definitely one of the more accepted ‘taboo’ acts in this survey, with a majority of ~59%. Although, it’s important to note that for many people the pre-existing relationship of those involved would make a difference in their opinion.

Necrophilia was overall the most supported (adding up both the red and blue sections of the pie chart there). In written responses, I also saw people claiming that conditions such as relationship to the deceased and likelihood of contracting illnesses would also be relevant to their opinions. Interestingly, there seemed to be a higher percentage of anti-contact here than for incest; some who chose such an option mostly highlighted the issue of dead bodies not being able to revoke consent during the act, and therefore not having the ability to be fully consenting at all.

Zoophilia was not supported by the majority (71%). ~25% of responders believed consensual contact with animals was possible; out of those who did, the belief that animals can consent if they initiate contact was most popular (followed by perceived enjoyment and intelligence level). Interestingly, I got several responses from people who labelled themselves as either pro or anti contact zoophilia who claimed that they believed sexual contact with animals *could* hypothetically be done ethically, but that the vast majority of people do not have the knowledge of animal behavior and biology to do so.

Pedophilia/Hebephilia was considerably more divisive. Comparing the pie chart here with the data below, I believe it would be accurate to say that we have a majority (~59%) of people who believe youth cannot consent to adult advances, and others whose opinions seem to be more situationally-defined. Keep in mind that not everyone who answered the first part answered the second.

According to written responses, those that were pro or nuanced on the issue tended to prioritize maturity level and sexual education for minors. Some people claimed that kids of almost any age should be able to express consent to (a few specified: non-penetrative) sex in a society that better educated children on their bodies and relationships. There seemed to be a group of people who agreed that, philosophically, children have the capacity to say yes or no to sex in the same way they would for anything else—most of these people, though, agreed that this would not work in our society due to the prevalence of CSA and lack of protections for children.

I found it interesting that more people identified as anti-contact for zoophilia than pedo/hebephilia. I saw two or three responses that claimed it was mostly an empathy issue (more for animals, less for children); but a more common outlook seemed to be that—while some minors have the ability to communicate what they want and understand the culture we have around sex—animals cannot meaningfully consent within the framework of our society.

As we can see here, the majority (62%) of people would feel comfortable interacting with people who had one or more of the ‘big three’ paraphilias, but have not engaged in them. For many people (~35%) there is the additional caveat of being anti-contact.

For those who *have* engaged in any of those paraphilias, comfortability interacting falls significantly. There’s still a majority of people willing to interact (adding the yellow and red sections together), but most of the people in that category (~41%) would only be comfortable if they considered the other persons’ contact consensual. ~43% of people would not feel comfortable interacting at all.

I don’t have a ton to say on this chart, but I thought I’d include it here.

—CENSORSHIP—

I have less to say in this section, but I find it notable that (admittedly, by a small margin) people found the ethics of AI child pornography featuring real children’s faces (but not bodies) more disagreeable than fully real images of children. Also notably, ~27% of responders believe children can consent to keeping sexually explicit images/videos of themselves available. Based on written responses, I believe some or most of this percentage comes from people wanting it to be acceptable for youth to keep/potentially distribute nudes of themselves without fear of legal repercussion.

Here we have a majorities for not banning sexually explicit writing or animation portraying children. As I expected, writing has a little more support than visual depiction.

—CONCLUSION, NOTES—

Again, I want to thank everyone who participated. The survey will continue to stay open if you haven’t taken it and want to add your own perspective.

I still have some questions, particularly regarding the diversity in definitions of consent I saw, as well as some of the more… ‘cosmetic’ (?) based TransIDs that I’d be interested in understanding the thought behind.

I feel like I have a much better understanding of some of the psychology behind a lot of this, at least. I won’t go into any ultimatums here, because I believe they might be influenced by my own ethics, but I’ll just say that much of this community is very understandable if you take an empathetic approach. It’s interesting that an online culture so focused on being able to identify as ‘other’ in a very individualistic way seems to have also brought many people into community that they were seeking. There’s quite an emphasis on the shared solidarity between different “deviancies” (as societally-defined), and for better or for worse this has led to the public broadcast of the many diversities of opinion these people have on some of the most taboo subjects one can think of.

[petew21-blog]

Swap you face part 2

Archie frowned looking a bit paler than before:"So you're saying that doctor Brown is onto us and we gotta flee, is that what I think you're saying?"

"Pretty much"

"How would he prove we stole their bodies? Would he force you to switch clothes in front of everyone or what?"

"Have you performed any surgery recently? No. Neither have I, but these bodies have. So either we run away or we will have Hell of a complicated life. Or if you don't want this, I can go get your body. I'll switch you and your hell ends."

Archie was contemplating for a while watching his manly arms on his wide thighs. He looked up:"I don't want to leave. Please sort this out."

"Ok, so Dr. Brown is in my body. Dr. Kim now has yours. Meaning that I need part of my original clothing to swap myself and Dr. Brown. Then I'll just swap you with Dr. Kim. We already have their clothing. We can't go back to my house for the clothing cause my parents would freak if they saw two adults trying to enter their house for a piece of clothing of their sons. I'll leave for the hospital and get it. Ok?"

"Fine. Thank you. I'm really sorry, but it would be really stressful to just leave. I know you understand."

Don't get it wrong. I really wanted to follow the plan before. I went to get my clothes. But my body was sleeping, strapped to the bed. Then a handsome intern entered the room

"Good afternoon, Dr. Brown. I'm on your service today. We had to restrain the patient, he was showing signs of mental disorder claiming to be you. There is a bypass scheduled in OR 1 and OR 2 is waiting for you. Can I help you with anything sir?"

My mind was coming up with the most devious plan ever. But eventually it would make many people happy. Maybe except Dr. Brown.

"Come with me to the on-call room. I have to speak to you privately."

We entered the room

"Take off your shirt." I ordered him

"Sir, I am sorry, but I am not comftable doing that. Besides, I am in a relationship. You're a very handsome man, but this isn't gonna happen, sir."

"I am your attending. And as your attending I expect you to follow everything I tell you to do!"

He was visibly angry, but he proceeded

"Here you go." He said angrily and handed me the shirt.

I took off my own shirt and threw it at him, while taking his own. "You're about to get a very fast promotion." I put on his shirt. Changing my appearence yet again.

in front off me was the body of Dr. Brown. It seemed from the look of his face, that he understood the situation quite well. He seemed actually happy about it too. Smiling even. I mean it doesn't happen everyday that you become an attending from being an intern in just a few months

I smiled and waved at him:"Goodbye DR. BROWN!"

He just waved without saying a single word and just smiled. The last thing I saw was him unbotting his jeans

"So you're saying you put dr. Brown back in your body but you had to swap with this kid? How does that even happen?"

"First of all i"m an adult and an intern just as your body. Second of all, it happened fast after he wanted to get me for swapping with him. And third of all stop at this motel. We're far enough from them. We should rest."

We got ourselves a room. We decided to relax for a while and the figure out where we were gonna go. We were next to each other on the bed. I was enjoying my new smell of a younger man. Inhaling my armpit. Archie was still nervous. Maybe I shouldn't have swapped him and just continue this journey on my own. He is such a wreck when he is doing something out of his control.

"I'm gonna go to shower. Wanna come with me?" I asked. He said he needs some time to think, so I let him be.

I was so looking forward to this. Enjoying the new body. Now was the time to fully explore. I left the door open for Archie to observe in case he was interested. Taking off the trousers and my shirt, I was left with the view of my new manly, yet younger body than before.

I smiled at myself. "This is gonna be so much fun"

I entered the shower, turning on the hot water. The feeling of water running down over my pectorals and my slightly hairy torso, over to the abs and to my new beautiful cock. Dr. Brown was bigger, but damn, this guys dick is amazing. Looks like from a porno movie.

I started slowly. Picking up the pace. I didn't try to hold in me the moaning, but even that didn't invite Archie to join me. I tried to insert the fingers of my free hand into my anus. Maaan this guy is so tight. I continued until I found his prostate. Let me tell you that this was indeed the best orgasm so far. Even better than in Brown's body. I had to wash the wall of the shower because of how much of cum I released.

This power is so fucking amazing

I went out of the shower to find Archie still on the bed. I laid down on mine too.

"You're still upset?"

"I.... I don't know if I want this. I mean. It's one thing to swap around two doctor's bodies to fuck around. But we stole their life. Our lives are gone. And I mean... It's not too late to go back. Don't you think?"

"We can be anyone you know? We don't have to go back to our lives"

"But I want to be me. I like my life."

"Hmmm... well in that case..." I got up from my bed and showed visibly my frustration.

"Where are you going?"

"Ehm. I am gonna go for a walk now to think how I'm going to swap us back easily and not to screw anything else up."

"I'm sorry. It's just cause I feel so guilty."

"Yeah I know. It's fine. I'll be back in an hour."

Maybe it was horrible from me, but I still think leaving Archie in the motel was the best thing I could have done. He's got a new adult body and he needs to learn how to take care of himself. Yeah you guessed it. I wasn't planning on going back to that motel.

As for me. I wanna thake this body for a ride. I went to this bar a made a decision to hit on anyone who might have a car to get me further away. Maybe even take their lige. But I think I'll keep this guy for a loooong time

A cute nerdy guy approached looking sex starved. Well this should be interesting

Hey guys, I'm slowly working on your stories, but I gotta take care of some stuff in school. I'll try to write in my free time as much as possible to make your swap dreams come true. Byeee

Part 1:

[ratinacoat]

I'm gunna be so honest, the argument of whether or not endos are valid is stupid.

I don't believe in the concept of endogenic plurality, but that's not because of DID. It's because I don't share the spiritual beliefs that come with it. Endogenic DID does not exist, period. Most endos agree with that and the ones who don't are the only ones we need to focus on in the argument of whether or not endogenic systems are valid. Whether or not plurality as a whole exists outside of these disorders is entirely a belief or a theory, it's not a proven thing. The concept of multiple people, souls, or entities in one body is spiritual. It has nothing to do with systems and there's no point in arguing about a personal belief cause you can't make someone believe and you can't simply change the mind of a believer. It's like trying to make an atheist a Christian or a Christian an atheist. It's not gunna happen just because you argue with them.

Let's say some day endogenic plurality somehow gets proven. It's still nothing related to being a CDD system at all. Endos don't have parts/alters, you can't have parts/alters without the disorder. Alters are entirely caused by dissociation due to trauma. Alters are dissociated personality states, not people in your head. DID also has more symptoms than alters. DID is a dissociative disorder, not an alter disorder. Endos don't have anything to do with systems, they share no experiences with systems, nothing about them has to do with systems. Nothing they claim relates to DID in the slightest, so it doesn't matter if they say they exist without trauma cause they're not even explaining DID existing without trauma.

I don't believe in the concept of plurality. I don't have any spiritual beliefs. If someone does though I don't care. I'm friends with endos, I have friends who believe in the concept of spiritual plurality and we get along fine. You know why? Cause it's stupid to argue about how two completely unrelated things are unrelated.

I don't care about endos as long as they're staying out of CDD spaces. I am against the toxicity in their community and consider myself anti endo but I don't actually give a shit about them cause they only matter on the internet and I have bigger things to worry about than some kid who wants to create an alter ego for their online persona.

[fluideli123]

Okay so there's this Sonic Plurality meme going around

[IMAGE ID: Shadow and Sonic are standing side by side. Shadow says, "I have multiple personality disorder." and Sonic responds with, "Dayum!! Any of them freaky???" /END ID]

I'd seen it a few times across platforms but during one I stumbled upon an interesting response:

[IMAGE ID: I don't see anything to enjoy about this actually? Like I'm so confused. There have been no hints in the games and/or shows for Shadow to have DID (and losing memory is not the same at all, on the one hand it's trying to find out who you were, and on the other hand with DID it's literally different people living in the same body), so this is at best just something random that isn't funny, and at worst a poor attempt at a joke which both mocks people with such a serious condition and mischaracterizes Shadow. Then, the joke could reside in Sonic's answer, but considering the severity of DID, it would be pretty weird. And that's not even taking in account just how far from canon that answer is. I don't get it. I'm pretty sure there could have been many other explicit jokes to make that would have actually been funny, whereas this is just poorly thought-out. Plainly spoken, if Insta had a dislike button, you can pretty much guess what I'd use it for /END ID]

I will not be diving into the cesspool that could be created by creating a post in response to the claim that "this meme mocks DID people." So, instead I'm going to give my thoughts on the claim that thinking Shadow has characteristics of DID is mischaracterizing him might actually be an interpretation and not entirely a fact!

First of all, as stated by this person, Plurality is, in fact--in the most plainest and broadest of terms--multiple people living in one body! Shadow is partially alien since Dr. Robotnik used Black Doom's DNA to create Shadow The Hedgehog in a lab. Black Doom is part of an alien race in which one of their abilities is a collective hive mind!

A hive mind is, "a unified consciousness or intelligence formed by a number of alien individuals, the resulting consciousness typically exerting control over its constituent members." To simplify it means that a bunch of beings share one single consciousness, mind, and it can be shared between members in differing ways.

This is a characteristic of plurality! A lot of plural systems share a consciousness, thoughts, emotions, and ways of living. In some systems there are also "leaders" or types of headmates who are the main head of the collective. This would reflect Black Doom and his position of power within the hive mind and how it affects Shadow.

Outside of the similarities between the two there is also the biological aspect of plurality in play here. Shadow most likely has the genes for hive-mindedness, meaning he has the ability to share a mind with others, AKA a possibility for natural-born plurality. Which, differs from experience to experience!

Secondly, Shadow went through extreme trauma during his time on the ARK and on Earth. Disordered Plurality and Truamagenic Plurality share characteristics for their plurality being affected or formed by trauma within or outside the system. It is possible that he could have formed a type of plurality just from that experience alone, especially in combination of his natural alien genes. In a sense, he was never meant to be alone within his own mind.

Thirdly, he is a creature of chaos energy which is different and works in a hell of a lot of ways across media. So let's make a list real quick:

Chaos Emerald Energy

Manifest peoples' thoughts as power

Appliable to all living things

Can be channeled as a tangible energy

Feelings unleash energy and interact with the wielder differently

Can bend and affect reality (slowing time, warping, reshaping, travel through time and dimensions)

Temporarily enhance a user's innate talents

Channeled into Chaos Powers

Super transformations

2. Chaos energy (Archie)

Natural Liquid Chaos energy

Ability to track chaos energy

3. Chaos energy (Pre-Super Genesis Wave)

Derived from Chaos Force

Shadow and Knuckles are the only two known to harness Raw Chaos Energy

There is a possibility to harness even greater amounts of it

4. Chaos energy (Sonic X)

Emerald Chaos energy is needed to create rings

In summary, Shadow being a being made of literal chaos energy in such amounts can mean he has the possibility of each and every one of these known Chaos Energy Abilities.

Plurality can involve the formation and creation of headmates or introjects, a kind of headmate formed from something or somewhere else than within the system. Having the possible ability to interact with reality, harness raw chaos energy that others cannot, and create things based on feelings mixed with alien genes and trauma would be a pretty incredible mix for plurality. Not only that but, as you can see, it heavily ties to his own history and biology to be plural in some form or another.

Plus, is it really far off if Shadow had headmates? Many people theorize that he may not be the original after he met android versions of himself or a clone (I can never remember). Plus, his differences between Sonic Adventure, Shadow the Hedgehog, and other games (if we're to place them all within the same timeline) would explain why he acts, thinks, or shows different characteristics that some people believe "do not line up."

All in all, Plural Shadow truthers deserve to have fun and anyone who does or doesn't enjoy the meme that started this post is valid to have their own opinion. Just as it is to have different interpretations about Shadow and his form(s) of plurality!!!

[thefandomenchantress]

We’re all familiar with the Xander-Ace arm wrestling scene. A lot of people cite it as one of their favorite funny moments from the series. And yeah, it is pretty funny when you don’t think about it too much.

The joke is pretty much, “Haha, Ace is such a wimp! He’s totally freaking out about a minor injury like it’s a really big deal!”

I don’t know if it was just me, but I sort of had this internal notion that Ace must’ve mentioned that his hand really hurt or something, and the joke was that he was wimp because it was such a minor injury, and it probably didn’t hurt at all.

But, uh. He never says anything about his hand hurting. Here are the lines he says (not all of which are featured in a text box, since Teruko and Xander are talking over him):

“AAAAAHHHHHH MY HAANNNDDDD!!!!”

*falls on the ground, gets up, screams again*

“OH GOD! You’re gonna put me down like a horse with a broken leg!!!”

“I’d rather die than not be able to eat cereal with my hand!!!”

“I’M NEVER GONNA BE ABLE TO RACE AGAIN!!!!”

Listening to all of the voice lines again, it seems less like Ace is panicking because his hand is hurting, and more like he's panicking because of what may happen to him if his hand is indeed badly injured. So it's less so about the injury itself, and more about what may happen because of it.

He first, of course, panics over Xander being a threat. That's completely expected, since making Xander angry just broke a table and assumedly hurt him in some way or another.

The cereal line is a bit confusing, especially considering his secret. A while back I came up with an out-there theory that he said that in order to try and deflect any suspicion about his secret, since an eating disorder can weaken your bones and if he got hurt too easily, people might begin to suspect something. So he rather clumsily brought up the subject of how he did in fact eat food. If we consider the fact that he's lying here, then him saying he'd rather die than do something makes a lot more sense, since we know he doesn't mean that at all. But in hindsight I may have been overthinking it...Still, I can't think of a better explanation, other than dismissing it altogether as a throwaway joke that didn't have much thought put into it.

The last line is what really makes this interesting. Ace hates his talent and anything to do with it. And yet one of the things he's panicking about the most is how he may not be able to race after sustaining an injury. And I think that this moment probably gives us our earliest insight into just how far Ace will go in order to race. In his first FTE with Teruko, he claims he doesn't do much work at all for his talent, until his performance anxiety forces him to. By saying that, it makes it sound like his talent doesn't completely dominate his life.

But this scene, in the same exact episode of his FTE, quickly proves to the viewer just how desperate Ace is to continue his talent, to the point where his own well-being becomes less important than it. Ace's extreme reaction to being injured isn't because he's a wimp that can't deal with pain, it's because he's spiraling about what this could mean for his career and, therefore, his status as a failure. "What if this injury prevents me from racing?" is the question that comes first, causing him to panic instead of being able to focus on how bad the injury actually is.

...I guess the thing that made me want to write about this scene is just how...Smart it is. It does so much at once. On a first viewing, it's really funny, and it still is on other viewings. Yet in hindsight, it's easier to notice just how distressed Ace is, and that no one is taking that seriously. No one ever takes his fears seriously, and in the end his fears drove him to murder, proving how important they really were. Even if his worries seem silly from an outsider's perspective, they're very real to him. And that's something that no one in-universe could realize until it was too late. This scene does an amazing job summarizing just how the cast's attitude towards Ace helped push him to becoming a culprit.

...Or maybe I'm taking the silly arm-wrestling scene too seriously, haha.

[ceruleanwhore]

I made a post a while ago in which I psychoanalyzed Jin and I just wanted take a minute here to do the same with Chevalier, since he is my favorite and I have already posted about the ways in which he presents as being autistic. My impression is that, like Jin, Chevalier has a deep, complex psyche that the writers aren't really aware of but, unintentionally, they have written it into the story nonetheless. This is going to be a really long post so you might want to get a snack or some water before you start reading lol. Also, spoilers for various parts of the series, I guess.

I believe there are two main components to Chevalier's psychology: autism and trauma. It is also my belief that he does everything he ever does because of the trauma, but those choices and actions outwardly present the way they do because of the autism. The biggest example of this is his utterly fucking stupid plan for total conquest of the whole continent — he sees it as a black and white, binary choice (either Gilbert takes over everything or Chevalier does) because he's autistic but the reason he sees it as being those particular choices (total conquest with him on top vs. total conquest with him being crushed under Gilbert's boot) is because of his trauma. I've talked about the autistic side of things in that other post I made and I will also talk about it later on in this post, but I want to start with the trauma side of things.

So, first and foremost, the most important thing when it comes to Chevalier's trauma is his denial. With his autism, he exclusively intellectualizes his emotions and doesn't allow himself to actually feel anything beyond mild irritation but then he also refuses to consciously think about them as well. This results in what is basically the emotional equivalent of that one disorder that makes people not feel any pain — damage is done, and yet he doesn't register that it's there at all and just keeps going, but there is, in fact, damage. The way I think about it is that his inner child is bleeding out in a closet somewhere in the back of his subconscious and that scared, lonely, dying child is driving all of his decisions. Even though he doesn't feel things like fear, he is driven by it because he never fucking processed it.

But I'm getting a little ahead of myself. Let's take it back and actually pinpoint what this trauma is, where it came from and how, as an adult, it affects all the choices he makes and everything he does. If we look to his childhood, there seem to be two key things: abandonment and mortal combat. From a concerningly young age, he was targeted by assassins and, also from a concerningly young age, he was fighting them off himself. Along with that, he seems to have had the horrid experience of being born a perfect baby people loved and adored but then, when he was still only a toddler or very small child, everyone started to fear, envy, and hate him, including his own mother. When we're talking about psychological trauma, it doesn't matter so much what his own actions were and whether or not certain consequences were deserved because, whether or not it was valid for his mother to fear him after he killed someone at, what, like six years old, the fact remains that her having that reaction traumatized him. The fact that she died shortly after this incident and Clavis even blames Chevalier for her death, claiming that the emotional impact of that incident killed her would have only compounded the impact of that trauma.

With the assassination attempts, I think it's perfectly obvious how that would traumatize any child, but I think it's equally significant that he had to start killing people at such a young age for his survival because taking a life is just as traumatizing as having someone else try to take yours. The incident with his mother is where we see an intersection between all these things: at like six years old, someone was trying to murder him, so he ended up killing that person in self defense and, after that, his mother viewed him not as her son or even as a child but as a murderer and was afraid of him, and then she died and it seemed to at least one other person that her death was a consequence of that situation, that it was Chevalier's fault. Even if Chevalier always seemed ridiculously mature and intelligent for his age and even if he never allows himself to feel or even think about his emotions, all of this damage was done and, since he never processes anything, it's all just festered over the next couple decades.

As an adult, I think it's safe to say that his identity is inextricably tied to his country, so his survival and self-preservation now is more a facet of his greater goal of prosperity for Rhodolite but, just as much as he became a smaller piece of Rhodolite, Rhodolite became a smaller piece of him. What I mean is that, when it comes to something like his conquest plan, one side of that is that, in his mind, he needs to stay alive in order to carry out that plan since no one else can do it, but the other side is that he needs to conquer the whole fucking continent under the banner of Rhodolite to truly secure his own personal safety. Even though he's so highly skilled and competent in so many ways that result in his safety in spite of all the attempts on his life, there are still things that can hurt and kill him. Being the dictator in control of the whole continent would go a long way to covering those few remaining bases. This sounds extreme but so is his lifelong fight against literal assassins.

As for the abandonment issues, this explains literally every interaction and dynamic he has with every other character. He leans into his reputation and the horrid impression others have of him, encouraging all those lies and even adding some of his own in order to push everyone away, and yet it's painfully obvious that, at his core, he desperately wants someone, anyone, to truly accept him for who he is and love him as he is and not leave him. Yes, I'm sure that part of the reason he has so many romance books is because he's trying to teach himself social pragmatics and romance as a genre has the most focus on interpersonal relationships and interactions, but it is also because that's something he genuinely wants, even though he can't even admit to himself that he wants it. Just like Clavis and Licht, he wants someone to love him unconditionally the way his mother was supposed to but didn't. I also think he's afraid of loss, like his mother's death, which is why he pushes everyone away so that he doesn't have any weaknesses that could potentially be exploited, but also because he doesn't want to have that experience of becoming attached to someone and then losing them.

Taking it back to my point about how he connects himself to Rhodolite, this also drives that intense, patriotic loyalty he has and how, from the beginning, he's threatening to kill Emma on the spot if she ever betrays Rhodolite, because betraying Rhodolite is the same as betraying him and on a deep, internal level, that fear of abandonment and betrayal is what's really driving that. He says himself, multiple times, that he doesn't actually like killing people, even though he ends up doing it quite often, and it seems to me that this threat of killing anyone who defies him/Rhodolite is really an expression of his hope that people won't commit such a betrayal and he won't have to kill them. I also think that the degree to which he bothers to understand the people around him is, yes, a useful tool but I think some of it comes from this internal conflict of wanting to be able to trust and get closer to others but deliberately pushing everyone away and never allowing for that risk of yet more abandoment and betrayal. One thing like this that comes up in canon is how he memorizes the names of all the soldiers who die in his service so he can uphold their legacy as he strives to finish the work they started. It's a little different but it is a very similar sentiment that, again, he doesn't allow himself to really think about.

Now, as I move to transition to the autism part of the equation, I have to talk about the inherent trauma that comes with existing as an autistic person, which Chevalier has as well. Basically, being autistic feels like you were just born wrong and every fucking thing you ever say and do is just wrong and, left and right, people hate you for existing the way you are and talk about it like you're a normal person who's just choosing to be an asshole for no reason. Well, that's actually more like half of it and then, for those of us who are more like Chev (minus the murder), half of it is people lauding you as a genius and either being jealous of you or like gaslighting you about how your brain works and trying to get you to 'maximize the good points' of your literal disability while 'minimizing unwanted behaviors'. Yeah, it sucks out here.

So, in addition to the trauma I just discussed, there's also this element of how, from a young age, he got this message loud and clear about how his whole existence is just wrong, but it's worse than that because he's literally told, time and time again, that he isn't even a human being. Now, to be clear, dehumanizing shit like that is also a pretty common autistic experience (which is also why Clavis bothers me so much even though I like his story a lot) and this exact sentiment is where we get stuff like the changeling myth from. People talk about how horrible it is that the superstitious folks of Europe came up with a bullshit story like that to justify killing their autistic kids, but we don't talk as much about how some autistic people, like Chevalier, strongly identify with this sort of thing. In real life, this is the reason why people on the spectrum are at such risk of ending up on the alt right pipeline through new age spiritual shit like starseeds but, in Chev's case, he feels this same difference and responds to it by leaning into the shit people say about him without any kind of spirituality. He doesn't need a girl on TikTok to tell him he's a superhero from another world, he can instead just lean into the core beliefs of conspiracy theories like that and view himself as someone who is intelligent beyond the scope of the human mind, who in unhindered by pesky 'human' things like emotions and personal connections, and who isn't even human at all.

All of this is to say that, even if he never feels it or consciously acknowledges it, Chevalier fundamentally believes that this world is not for him, that he does not belong here because he was made wrong somehow, and he's worked his fucking ass off every day of his life since he could walk to try to carve out a space for himself and earn his very existence. I think it's ironic that his name is 'Chevalier' because every time I see his name, I think of the title chevalier mal fet, which is what Lancelot refers to himself as in The Once and Future King, and it translates to "the ill-made knight", which I think really is how Chevalier feels about himself on a deep, fundamental level. This kind of perspective is inherently traumatic, mainly because of the unfair treatment, discrimination, and cruelty it results from, so Chevalier also has this trauma.

Remember how I said that his trauma is the driving force of why he does everything he does? This desire to do whatever is necessary to belong in this world that he was born into yet also totally alien to is exactly what's driving him to conquer the continent. If the world is not for him, then all he has to do is sieze it and make it his, which he and everyone else knows he is fully capable of doing.

This brings us to the autism itself, and I first just want to quickly list off the autistic traits and symptoms I've seen from him in the text: hyperlexia, strong pattern recognition, above average logical/academic intelligence, below average social/emotional intelligence, a tendency for literal, black-and-white thinking, a photographic memory, sensory issues, and he likes parallel play once he actually starts to get closer to Emma. I want to start by clarifying that a true, photographic memory like his has never actually been proven to exist (it's physically impossible to have total recall like he does), but when it does show up in media as a fictional trait, it's always autistic coded, like with Spencer from Criminal Minds. My opinion is that Chevalier isn't really a genius, he's just autistic and the combination of traits like his memory, the literal thinking, the hyperlexia, and the pattern recognition are what make him come across like some incredible genius.

His true genius is how he's managed to use his privilege, resources, and the people around him not just to accommodate his disability (because yes, this is a disability, even when it's someone like Chevalier) but go so far as to turn his weaknesses into perceived strengths. It's no longer a weakness that he has abominable social skills and no emotional intelligence whatsoever, now it's a strength that allows him to be a better leader because he's uninhindered by all that illogical riff-raff, because he said so. Genuinely, it's really impressive he managed to pull that off even though it's all a load of bullshit. In addition to that, he also relies on his faction to make up for these same weaknesses at the same time he's trying to claim they're not weaknesses. Even he can recognize the importance of interpersonal skills in the political arena, so that's where Clavis and Nokto come in to cover for him.

But, like I said earlier, when it comes to the choices he makes, it all really comes down to the way he thinks as an autistic person. Everything is either simple math or a binary choice after he 'considered all options and eliminated the ones that were inefficient' because of how his autistic brain works. For him, it will always come down to a violent solution because diplomacy and negotiation are just too hard for him to do, so it really is more efficient to just whip out his sword because at least he's competent with that.

This is where that internal conflict around his autistic identity comes back up with some of the trauma because he really doesn't like killing people and it is, unfortunately, true that he never would have started killing people like that if he weren't autistic. People saw him as a threat from such a young age because of the 'genius' of his autism, so the assassination attempts along with his reputation all started with his autism. His reputation and the very literal, very autistic, black-and-white choice he made on Bloodstained Rose Day are then also the reason why everyone keeps trying to kill him currently. On top of all of that, you have this true ineptitude when it comes to social pragmatics and communication skills so, between all those different things, he very literally keeps killing people because he's a prominent figure in society and he is autistic.

I think this is why he's actually willing to work with Emma and change to be less violent because he never wanted to kill people this way and, on top of that, he literally has childhood trauma around that exact thing. This massively tangled web of contradictions is what makes him the way he is and yet he can't stand to consciously recognize the vast majority of all this shit, so he's like the fucking Plato cave allegory with the denial about it and it's so fucking dangerous. Think about it — he's making all of these critical decisions about Rhodolite, who lives and who dies, and even conquering the whole fucking continent out of this psychological mess of his personal inclinations, emotions, and trauma, all while being fully convinced those things don't even exist and he is actually making the best, most objective choices since he believes that he's free of all that other crap.

The tragedy of Chevalier is that his psychology is going to destroy Rhodolite and he won't even recognize any of that as it's happening. Coming from the USA and looking at other massive countries like ours around the globe, I can say with confidence that there is absolutely no way to make a country this big and actually have it work, especially when the idea is that you're expanding a smaller country. The second that Rhodolite gets combined with another country, 'Rhodolite' is dead, and Chevalier has no concept of that. He sees countries as borders on maps with a name slapped on top and fails to recognize that what really makes his precious Rhodolite the country he's sworn to protect is the people within those borders, their culture, their language, and all that kind of stuff. Assimiliating Rhodolite with the entire rest of the continent to make one massive country will inherently destroy Rhodolite, and there is no way to avoid that.

This isn't even to mention the problems with succession and how the worst problems of any monarchy get even worse when we're talking about an empire that spans a whole continent. Chevalier is, unfortunately, exactly the type of guy that if, in the future, one of his descendants takes over the empire and fucks everything up because that's exactly how shit like this always turns out, that's only on them and Chevalier wouldn't see himself as being responsible for that even though he would have made the whole system in the first place. By keeping a totalitarian structure, especially if he gets rid of the Belle system like he wants, he will have completely sealed Rhodolite's fate. However, he won't see it that way and, if he does all of that, he will live the rest of his life thinking he succeeded in all of this and saved Rhodolite.

[catherine-clover]

The longest list of anti-endo sources I've ever seen

While trying to find something else using Tumblr's infamous search engine, I came across this absolute gem:

NINE SOURCES!!! That's a record!! This is incredible!

@radpocalypse, listen. I am about to tear these to shreds, but before I do, I want you to know that you have my respect for not only compiling the longest list of sources I have ever seen an anti-endo provide, and not only doing so seemingly not directly prompted, but typing out every single link by hand, on mobile, without making a single mistake. Incredible work.

And also, to be completely honest, if I had nine sources supporting a belief, I almost certainly wouldn't look into them this closely. But, hey, that's what strangers on the internet with opposing views are for.

One more thing before the debunk: Endogenic systems do not claim to have DID etc. without trauma. They just don't. Whether it could be possible is often debated as an edge case, usually just to win an argument against someone of the opposing side, but really, it's irrelevant for 99% of the community. A good chunk are questioning OSDD based on later trauma, but as far as I am aware, no one on this website is claiming a completely endogenic plural disorder.

However, I don't want to dismiss entire pages based on this alone without further commentary, and it's a fun intellectual exercise regardless. So, whenever I use green text, I'm just playing Devil's Advocate under the premise of "If I was claiming to have DID without trauma (which neither I nor anyone else afaik is), would this source actually debunk that claim?" My syster will also occasionally pop in with purple, since she was cocon while I was writing this.

My dad just walked into my room and literally said "hey how it's going". You know, like. Like that one post. Amazing.

Anyway, civility established. Now come along with me on this long long journey of ten minutes of reading. Maybe put some music on in the background, if that will help you get through it. I had Near's Theme on while writing.

Here we go.

Link 1: McLean Hospital

Ok, main thing that caught my eye was

According to a 2010 Psychiatric Times article, only 5% of people with DID exhibit obvious switching between identity “states.”

Very interesting! Even with all of the "idk who's fronting" memes, 5% is really not that high. Though maybe online spaces like these help train the ability to identify it? The reference trail leads back to a book by Kluft but I don't really feel like going through dozens of pages for this. Definitely making a note of this though; I wonder if there have been any follow-up studies on this.

Not much to say here other than that. No mention of plurality outside DID.

DID is associated with long-term exposure to trauma, often chronic traumatic experiences during early childhood.

Dissociation—or disconnection from one’s sense of self or environment—can be a response to trauma.

Dissociative identity disorder—a type of dissociative disorder—most often develops during early childhood in kids who are experiencing long-term trauma. This typically involves emotional, physical, and/or sexual abuse; neglect; and highly unpredictable interactions with caregivers.

Why "associated", not "is caused by"? Why "can", not "is"? Why "most often", etc.?

Why such weak language?

Not that it couldn't be weaker.

I vaguely remember McLean getting into some hot water regarding a video they posted about DID, but didn't find anything concrete. Half-remembered anecdote aside, the author seems well-qualified.

C-tier debunk of this position. It's not nothing but it could be a lot better.

Link 2: Psych Central

It occurs in women 9 times more often than in men.

Very interesting statistic, but no citation provided.

Alters can show striking differences. For instance, one alter may speak with a different accent or have a softer way of speaking. They might have different opinions or a different gender identity, and even physical differences — like left- or right-handedness, or the need for a glasses prescription.

That's quite a stark difference here compared to the McLean article. What happened to "alters aren't that noticeable"?

But whatever, these are just interesting tidbits. None of this has anything to do with endogenic plurality. Nothing like "this is the only way to be multiple", no comment whatsoever.

DID is usually associated with adverse experiences in someone’s past and traumatic memories.

Dissociative identity disorder (DID) is a mental health condition with strong links to trauma, especially trauma in childhood.

Bruh. This again?

In fact, the American Psychiatric Association reports that 90% of people with DID have a history of childhood abuse and neglect, based on research from the United States, Canada, and Europe.

Bruh. Seriously? 90%? You know what that leaves, right?

According to your own source, 10% of DID systems are endogenic.

But let's break this down. There's a big difference between the system being endogenic, and the DID being endogenic. This statistic is specifically referring to childhood trauma.

The wording's plenty vague though. This can absolutely be read as completely endogenic DID.

One review article from 2017 about the causes of DID noted that there was relatively little research on the condition to date.

The authors said researchers hadn’t yet investigated potential genetic and epigenetic factors. With epigenetic factors, the experiences and behaviors of your parents and ancestors can influence the function of the genes they pass down to you.

The authors of the review said scientists needed to do more research to investigate whether a person with DID might carry genes that can influence if they develop the condition or not.

This is particularly promising because studies have already shown that genes can influence dissociative disorders in general.

So you're telling me DID might be able to be passed down one or two generations? Wow. Again, this still has nothing to do with endogenic plurality, but I'm really glad I decided to play with this second angle, because it's so much more fun. We're certainly not at intentional self-inflicted DID here, but we are at this point a long way from certainly needing childhood trauma in all cases.

And also the reviewer is a military psychiatrist who specializes in ADHD. So uh. Not bringing our best here.

Link 3: Mayo Clinic

Gotta love an article that's nice and short. This is just a brief summary of a bunch of dissociative disorders. Again, nothing about endogenic plurality.

Starting to run out of things to say about this. This whole post could probably be a fifth the length if I didn't feel like playing on hard mode.

Formerly known as multiple personality disorder, this disorder involves "switching" to other identities. You may feel as if you have two or more people talking or living inside your head. You may feel like you're possessed by other identities.

Each identity may have a unique name, personal history and features. These identities sometimes include differences in voice, gender, mannerisms and even such physical qualities as the need for eyeglasses.

Hey, that reminds me of someone.

There also are differences in how familiar each identity is with the others. Dissociative identity disorder usually also includes bouts of amnesia and often includes times of confused wandering.

Again, McLean looking really odd with its declaration of DID's covertness against great detail like this. However, its author is so far the best qualified. This one just says "Mayo Clinic Staff". Can't even know which of them worked on this. Some of them are psychs, but if any of them specialize in dissociative disorders, it doesn't say so.

Dissociative disorders usually arise as a reaction to shocking, distressing or painful events and help push away difficult memories.

I won't bother quoting even more wishy-washy language because this post is already at an ungodly length (about 1300 words so far) and we're barely a third done. But yeah, suffice to say, no nail-in-the-coffin 100% link to trauma.

Link 4: Rethink

We are a trusted information creator and accredited by the Patient Information Forum (PIF).

Their bold, for once. That's an alarm-ringing corporate phrase if I've ever seen one. Also, first thing on the PIF's website is "balancing the risks and benefits of AI in the production of health information". So this article might've been written by GPT. Awesome. And yeah, a lot of this whole website looks to me like a bunch of interconnected pages with stupidly long articles written by stitching together LLM generations. Does pass GPT0's test though.

This one is so long. I'll take the ten minutes to read through every word, which I don't think @radpocalypse did, just to make sure there's nothing here, but one thing that does catch my eye scrolling down to near the bottom is that they misspelled their first citation.

A quick look at this Carolyn Spring shows a lot being sold and credentials nowhere in sight. Awesome.

So already I don't need to read this. The information here is not at a high level of trustworthiness. It's maybe better than nothing, but seriously, one can and should do better. But I'll read it anyway, just for bonus points. Thanks to AccelaReader for making this bearable.

Many people will experience dissociation at some point in their lives. Lots of different things can cause you to dissociate. For example, you might dissociate when you are very stressed, or after something traumatic has happened to you.

Some of the symptoms of dissociation include the following:

You may have clear multiple identities.

It‘s important to remember that you could have the symptoms of dissociation without a dissociative disorder.

So according to this, multiple identities can be caused by intense but non-traumatic stress, and might not necessarily be a disorder. So, while I admit this is a little bit of a stretch, we're four links in and this is the first mention of plurality in general, so I'll take it. One point for endogenic plurality. (And again, none of this really matters anyway because this is the worst source so far.)

Dissociative identity disorder (DID) is sometimes called ‘Multiple Personality Disorder.

If you have DID you might seem to have 2 or more different identities, called ‘alternate identities.

Two missing closing quotes. Really not a good sign.

They suggest that DID is caused by experiencing severe trauma over a long time in childhood.

Aha! Finally, something concrete against endogenic DID! Too bad it's buried in the worst source yet. If we believed we had DID, we would absolutely not reconsider that based on a sketchy webpage with suboptimal syntax and no credentials.

Ugh, finally done with that one. What a slog.

Link 5: DID Research

Aha! The infamous psych student's blog! That's what Sophie said, anyway. Not taking her word for it though. Let's see what we can find here, independently.

Dissociative identity disorder (DID) is the result of repeated or long-term childhood trauma

Why wasn't this first? First sentence, so crystal clear. No two ways about this, transDID destroyed right out of the gate.

DID cannot form after ages 6-9 because individuals older than these ages have an integrated self identity and history.

Why wasn't this first? It's so plain, so refreshing after four pages of strategic ambiguity. Nothing left here for green. But still no mention of non-disordered plurality.

The author is impressively credentialed but doesn't seem to specialize quite near this area. She's certainly better than most, high above any random Tumblr user talking out of their ass, but the good stuff would be to get a DID specialist to explicitly spell out that endogenic systems are not possible.

Also should make note of this big fat legal disclaimer:

While the author strives to make information on this website as complete, reliable, and accurate as possible, the author makes no claims, promises, guarantees, or warranties about the accuracy, completeness, or adequacy of the contents of this site and expressly disclaims liability for errors and omissions in the contents of this site.

If we did claim to have DID, this would rattle us a little but could ultimately be brushed aside.

Link 6: SANE

As usual, literally nothing about endogenic plurality. I'll just greenmode this.

The majority of people with DID have been through severe trauma in early childhood

And now back to our regularly scheduled nondefinitive language.

Fun fact: highlighting text on this website turns it invisible. Awesome.

A person needs to meet the following criteria to be diagnosed with DID:

- Two or more distinct identities or personality states, each with its own way of thinking and relating. - Amnesia and gaps in the recall of everyday events, personal information or traumatic events. - The experiences are not part of normal cultural or religious practice, or part of childhood imaginary play. For example, a child having an imaginary friend does not mean they have DID. - The symptoms are not because of substance abuse or other medical conditions.

Ah finally, a direct quote from the good ol' DSM. Notice the lack of a trauma requirement.

Funny enough, using only these criteria in isolation, we actually would count as having DID due to our grayout memory gaps when switching. DID is also listed in the dissociative disorders section of the DSM, not the trauma disorders section, so there is no implied criterion there either. However, there still remains the universal criterion of distress, which we do not fulfill. We are quite happy with ourselves.

DID is caused by severe childhood trauma, such as physical, verbal or sexual abuse.

Well, which is it?? Is it a majority association or a direct cause? Why the contradiction? Or is the emphasis on early childhood trauma?

Eh, whatever. Point is, green is once again shut down. But there is still no mention of endogenic plurality anywhere here!!

And no indication of who wrote this article, though the citation for direct cause is a dissociative disorder specialist. Does he actually say that in the cited paper, though?

Dissociative identity disorder (DID) is multifactorial in its etiology. Whereas psychosocial etiologies of DID include developmental traumatization and sociocognitive sequelae, biological factors include trauma-generated neurobiological responses. Biologically derived traits and epigenetic mechanisms are also likely to be at play. At this point, no direct examination of genetics has occurred in DID. However, it is likely to exist, given the genetic link to dissociation in general and in relation to childhood adversity in particular.

I hope you have a dictionary on hand. That sure is a lot of big words that aren't in Firefox's built-in spellchecker. Still, after making sure I got everything, it's clearly not so cut and dry here. And we're back on the "it could be genetic" point.

Tangentially related: I do like the dismissal of the iatrogenic model on the basis of the brain scans.

Neurobiological differences have been demonstrated between dissociative identities within patients with DID and between patients with DID and controls. Given the current evidence, DID as a diagnostic entity cannot be explained as a phenomenon created by iatrogenic influences, suggestibility, malingering, or social role-taking. On the contrary, DID is an empirically robust chronic psychiatric disorder based on neurobiological, cognitive, and interpersonal non-integration as a response to unbearable stress.

Anyway, we're not even on the original page anymore, so I'll call it here. No mention of endogenic plurality, and the citation that claims to dismiss endogenic DID doesn't.

Link 7: NAMI Michigan

While the causes [of DID] are unknown

I'm tired. Aren't you tired?

Treatment for DID consists primarily of psychotherapy with hypnosis.

Yeah I'm calling BS on this one

And no citations on this entire page, nor even the author's name.

Statistics show that DID occurs in 0.01 to 1 percent of the general population.

Research has shown that the average age for the initial development of alters is 5.9 years old.

No sources listed. This is definitely the worst link. Literally on the same level as a rambling Tumblr user in terms of credibility.

Doesn't matter that it says

This disorder is believed to be triggered by physical or sexual abuse in childhood

Couldn't even get this dogshit source to be firm.

This one gets an F.

Link 8: The Psychology Practice

Got scared for a moment there that it said ai. No, that's AL, a name. Also this was written in 2022, so we're definitely safe. Can't actually find any other info on this AL character, but at least we can look up the co-author.

Hm, can't find anything on her, either. Well, at least this is a step up from the previous link. Let's see what it has to say.

According to the Dissociative Identity Research Organisation (2018), DID is formed in childhood due to repeated trauma in early childhood (before age 10) before the personality is fully integrated.

I do like that these later links are direct with this. They don't seem to have a citation for that DIRO, though. Unless...

No. Oh no.

Ok, so this one was written by a couple of clowns who definitely didn't do their homework. Cool. I'm getting tired of humoring awful sources like this, so moving on to the grand finale.

Link 9: NAMI

Wait, this is the same group behind the zero-citation article from Michigan! But that was just Michigan. Maybe the main site can do better.

Ugh, it's just another list of dissociative disorders instead of DID specifically.

The symptoms of a dissociative disorder usually first develop as a response to a traumatic event,

Aren't you tired? Aren't you tired? Aren't you tired?

Often these identities may have unique names, characteristics, mannerisms and voices.

Often? Wow. Sure is a far cry from 5%.

Dissociative disorders are managed through various therapies including: - Psychotherapies such as cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT) and dialectical behavioral therapy (DBT) - Eye movement desensitization and reprocessing (EMDR) - Medications such as antidepressants can treat symptoms of related conditions

No mention of hypnosis, allegedly the primary method of treatment?? (/sarc)

and there was no mention of plurality being exclusive to dissociative disorders

Oh, and no listed authors either.

So, after three thousand words of analysis, all we've come up with are nothing burgers, dogshit, and dogshit nothing burgers. Out of nine links, only one briefly and indirectly touched on endogenic plurality, and it was in favor. Even the argument against the traumaless DID strawman is weak at best. These sources are bad, to put it lightly.

@radpocalypse, if you're reading this, firstly, thank you for powering through your ADHD and dyslexia to read thousands of words dunking on your masterpiece. Secondly, if you have any more sources that you think are backing you, feel free to send them my way. Just uh, maybe read them more closely next time?

And that goes for everyone here. If you think you have a better source, or if I made a mistake or missed something here, I am open to correction. I am open to the idea that I'm wrong and I have some unknown trauma to work through, but I certainly won't go digging unless I have good reason to believe it's there, and I haven't seen any good reason. And if you haven't either, maybe it's time to reconsider your position.

One last thing before I go.

Have you ever actually seen a pro-endo carrd, let alone one cited in standalone? I haven't.

Here's a much longer list of much better sources than yours supporting endogenic plurality compiled by the traumagenic Guardians System. I don't expect you to read anywhere near the whole thing; just pick a few links at random. And yes, while many of them are peer-reviewed papers, some of them are Tumblr posts, but those Tumblr posts cite peer-reviewed papers, so it's all good.

Thanks for reading.

[tfs-syscourse]

10 lukewarm syscourse takes

from someone who just briefly scrolls the tag from time to time:

1. Labels are only as helpful as they are, well, helpful.

If calling yourself something feels right, that’s great. Fixating on fitting into the labels, however, isn’t.

The labels are there for you to define & communicate your experiences, not boxes for you to cram yourself into.

2. Innerworlds are not a separate physical realm, but they may present that way to a system.

Not all systems are going to have one. Some have to put effort into creating one, if they want/need it. Some systems have very vivid & complex innerworlds.

Innerworlds are a healthy form of dissociation when utilized as such. What’s considered a “healthy” amount of focus on the innerworld will vary from system to system. For some, it could be none at all.

3. This one is very much just an opinion— I don’t believe anyone should invite outsiders into the creation of their system/innerworld. (Ex. Alter packs, innerworld packs, etc.)

If these are things that are going to be parts of your brain, I believe it’s worth thinking over the pieces.

4. Fusion is a good thing, so is functional multiplicity, and the two aren’t mutually exclusive.

We’re personally aiming for functional multiplicity, but are hoping for some fusions as well. Which works better, or the proper balance between fusion & multiplicity, will differ per system.

Demonizing fusion is harmful.

5. Calling out “fakers” is useless.

I know someone who mistakenly thought they had a CDD. Through support & professional help, they came to the conclusion that they were wrong, but they now have a deeper understanding of themself & of dissociative disorders. This person wasn’t “faking it”. They did have mental health issues and problems with identity/dissociation that needed to be addressed. They just turned out not to have a CDD. (This is why professional insight can be useful.)

If someone is truly intending to fake having a CDD or being a system, they’ll get bored of it eventually. Feeding into them (ex. trying to call them out) will only make it “more fun”.

6. Having a CDD vs. not having a CDD is different. CDD systems are not the same as non-CDD systems.

Even if there’s overlap, they are not the same thing.

CDD systems and non-CDD systems can and should have spaces where they interact. I think it’s important to acknowledge that a CDD system will work differently than a non-CDD system while doing so, though.

7. Telling systems what “can’t” happen within their system really doesn’t help anything.

How would anyone but the system experiencing it know? To an extent, the only limit is the bounds of a system’s imagination. Maybe it doesn’t work that way for one system, but it does for another.

Note: Sometimes it is necessary to say that some things are simply not possible, and the belief that they are can cause harm. (Ex. The idea of someone in one system jumping into another person’s system.)

8. The misinformation spread about in online system spaces, presented as scientific fact, is concerning.

CDDs are understudied, and the internal systemhood aspect of them even more so. Non-disordered systemhood, barely studied at all.

Sometimes, the answer is “there hasn’t been enough/any research on this yet”, and we as a community need to learn to be okay with that.

On the other hand, dismissing the studies that have been done, or twisting them to fit a narrative (ex. claiming CDDs are not trauma-based disorders) is just as bad, if not worse.

9. Nuance is necessary.

Existing in online system spaces should not require “picking a side”.

I think syscourse would be a kinder and more productive topic without an “anti” and “pro” dichotomy.

10. Walking away can be best.

These are niche online spaces— anyone can leave them. If syscourse is genuinely affecting someone’s mental health, the way to deal with that is by leaving syscourse for a while. It’s okay to take a break.

Personally, I think it’s great to have no interaction with any online system content every once in a while.

That’s all for now 👋 Hope y’all are doing well and doing it with well-intentions.