#no one will ever hate the bad boys more than the narrative

[kitskiis]

I think the saddest part about secret life Joel is just how futile all of his actions are in that season. On a surface level i mean stuff like all of his more careful gameplay being cancelled out by a singular failed tnt trap but on a deeper level i specifically mean how that character contrasts with last life Joel. Joel is undoubtedly at his lowest point in the life series in Last Life. He goes down to red in session 2 and spends the majority of the rest of the season alone (and when he does have allies it’s only bc of a shared bloodlust). The red bloodlust completely takes over and this festers for nearly *8 sessions*. Not only that but the one time he is given a chance to restart and go back to yellow his old alliance member goes to red, leaving him alone again, and he is made boogeyman the next session. This, overall, has lasting consequences (he actually wanted to be fairly friendly at the beginning of LL, a stark contrast to how bloodthirsty he was at the beginning of DL or Lim L), and gained him a reputation that has never fully gone away. This is especially bad bc most people agree that LL was the most violent season (despite the lower kill counts in comparison to LimL) and was generally the worst and most traumatizing experience in the games for most people involved. Compare this to secret life, which everyone agrees was definitely the happiest season for Joel (or at least the most normal. His life is a tragedy no matter the season.) he has allies that (for the most part rip mumbo) stick with him until the end, he is friendlier with a larger group of people, and when he initially has to deal with the loss of some of them he has people who can ground him (bc as much as I adore the bad boys, grian was not qualified to do that). He was so hopeful that season, and was generally in a much healthier place mentally. And yet, despite how much he seemed to have grown, those 2 seasons ended so similarly for him it was almost comical. Joel engaged in a fight at the end, watched his ally get killed by scott, and is then forced into a 2v1 against Scott and another player that results in Scott taking his final life and him finishing 5th overall. I was describing both of those seasons here. After everything he did to grow, after all the improvements he had made, everything ended *exactly the same*

Making this about the bad boys for a second (because I’m me) they kinda suffer similar fates. Grian learned in the most tragic way possible that his allies were doomed to fail as long as he was with them no matter what, that this was not something that he could control by simply avoiding killing them himself. Even when he actively tries to save them (“let Tim do it he needs the time” “Joel you can kill me!”) he’ll still lose them in the end. I think this realization is also what made him stop trying to fight it, which resulted in him killing or almost killing his allies from previous seasons immediately afterwards (stabbing scar in the back and that one scene where grian kinda ominously jumps with a sword like he was about to crit and kill bigb after finding out he had 50 seconds left on his timer). It’s sorta like a way of telling the universe “fine. You win”

Similarly Jimmy. Well. I don’t think I need to explain that one. Even when he was given hope that things could be different, that he could break the curse, he died only a few minutes later. I still hold on to the narrative that the watchers only allowed that to happen to give Jimmy false hope that things can be different only to rip the rug out from under him and drive home the point that he is in a losing battle because by the time of secret life Jimmy was one of the only few people who genuinely still believed he had a chance. Obviously this is not something that can fully be a reality until he goes out first next season so if he doesn’t that’s a little awkward but just work with me here

TLDR; here is reason number 672 on why I believe the bad boys are the most doomed motherfuckers on this server and their alliance is a modern tragedy

[maybeiwasjustjade]

Genuinely, perhaps 99% of me, believes that the only reason Condal and Hess made HOTD Aegon a r*pist/have adult Aegon’s introduction the aftermath of the SA of a maid, was because they knew that if Aegon was just a drunk and a cheat—like almost all Westerosi men—he would be too tragic of a character not to root for, and they really couldn’t have that. No, Aegon has to be the monster to Rhaenyra’s saint, because if you took away the act that made him monstrous, he’s so easy to root for, and the TB/TG divide would be significantly larger.

Cheating and visiting brothels are quite common in Westeros, with the vast majority of male characters doing one or the other or both. Drinking is even more so. Aegon would still be palatable with either or both traits because it doesn’t make him worse than Rhaenyra. Rhaenyra had three bastards with Harwin because Laenor’s gay, so it makes her affair understandable and valid. Aegon was forced to marry his own sister as a young teen, and clearly despises the whole targ-incest tradition. Why is it a crime that he doesn’t find his little sister sexually or romantically attractive???

Aegon’s basically a Greek tragedy made flesh. The eldest son conceived to be a long-awaited heir, yet simultaneously cheated out of a birthright. Born wanted yet unwanted, the heir who is not an heir. Meant to be loved, yet raised without it, with a mother’s disdain and fear as his only companion. His father stopped wanting him sometime after his second birthday (probably around the time Jacaerys was born), and his mother never wanted him anyway. His mere existence is a threat to a crown he never wanted, yet nobody cared when they placed it on his head. He wants love but no one loves him, and contrary to popular belief, that lack of love didn’t just stem from adulthood. He was a little boy once too, who very much didn’t deserve that level of apathy.

Married to his sister despite his clear disdain for his family’s incestuous tradition. Forced to father children on her at the grand old age of sixteen (and she fourteen). The only thing he ever really loved was his dragon, and the children he had. And even those he loses to tragedy, and someone else’s doing.

It’s not at all a surprise that Aegon’s defining trait is his love for Sunfyre. A ridiculously strong bond, born from years of having only each other. Moreover, a dragon is the symbol of power, which Aegon has little of. He can’t protect himself from his own family’s abuse or machinations, and unless he claims the crown everyone he loves will die. Dragons also represent freedom, and the ability to just fly away. And if there’s one thing Aegon wants more than anything in the world, it’s to run away from his family and the accursed throne.

In that, he’s not so different than a young Rhaenyra (pre-personality change anyway). Young Rhaenyra hated having to conform to societal standards. Hated having no choice but to marry, and to whom. She too wanted to fly away to freedom. There’s too many parallels between the two, even down to their ages pre-timeskip. Rhaenyra was about 18, and Aegon now is only 20. Yet Rhaenyra at 16’s only problem was whether her infant brother would replace her as heir, while Aegon’s was being forced to play house with his sister and newborn twins.

Perhaps misogyny and society would always be Rhaenyra’s greatest opponent, and the same Aegon’s ally when it comes to their claims, but it was not the only issue. Precedent declared that Aegon would be heir ahead of her, yet it was Rhaenyra’s position and honor that Viserys defied law for, even when she committed high treason against the crown thrice. She got everything; Aegon had nothing. He’s the underdog of the story, not her. So had they not made him an on screen r*pist (unlike Daemon who was off-screen one and merely an on-screen pedo and wife-killer), it would’ve been very hard for the writers to push their “Rhaenyra good, TG bad” narrative. Those two would’ve had too many parallels and foils for it to work, and they really couldn’t have that, could they.

No, Aegon has to be the villain; Rhaenyra has to be the hero. It’s a black and white war, good vs evil. That’s the story HOTD is trying to sell, and not at all the complex tragedy of a family tearing itself and its dynasty into pieces over greed and idiocy.

[koolades-world]

So, request for the Obey me boys (main and side). When I'm emotionally stressed or overwhelmed, I get the urge to clean (especially if my space has been needing it). So, how would they react to an MC spontaniously cleaning anything and everything in that sort of state (Dishes, Floors, surfaces, their own room, etc)?

hi! sure thing!

i relate to this on such a deep level. it's when i get my best cleaning done LOL. having a crisis? suddenly the room is the best it's looked in months

posting this instead of spellbound because getting my car took much longer than I expected. spellbound will be tomorrow for sure :)

enjoy <3

Mc who spontaneously cleans

Lucifer

he may just have to marry you on the spot

his brothers aren’t exactly the cleanest bunch and sometimes he feels like he’s the only one making an effort

he might cry if he comes downstairs one morning and the kitchen is sparkling

Mammon

if he’s not the messiest bitch ever… no shade but there’s no way his room doesn’t look like it was hit by a tornado

however if he ever sees you cleaning he'll try his best to help

he will also try his best to keep things tidy to make it less work for you <3

Levi

I can’t explain it but something about him screams neat freak to me

but, this only applies to his spaces because it would be too much work

he applauded your efforts because more than once he’s cracked and just deep cleaned everything haha

Satan

he’s clean when he wants to be

and most of the time, he is. the only times he isn’t is to piss off lucifer even though he’s just going to drag him back to do it anyways

after seeing how hard you work, he never does that again haha. he would hate for you to have to pick up after him

Asmo

somehow clean but messy at the same time

he won't stop you if you want to go to town cleaning up his makeup pallets and what not

afterwards though he makes sure to treat you <3

Beel

definitely the guy that takes three plus showers a day lol

he always asks you to make sure he's picking up after himself though just in case

he appreciates you and everything you do :)

Belphie

if you think he's tidy, i am so sorry you are wrong haha

will complain about an area being dirty and then proceed to ask why you were cleaning it up

however he will thank you every time he notices you've tidied up :)

Diavolo

despite the fact that he has a whole team that cleans for him, he hates to leave behind a mess

so, he always insists you get him when you get the urge to clean

everything is better when you have someone by your side! besides, he'll take any excuse to be by your side

Barbatos

you know him, he’s incredibly tidy to the point that it’s almost impossible to find a mess in the demon lord’s palace

but in the rare cause you’ve beat him to it, he’s grateful since it’s rare he gets help

afterward, you’ll be having tea together, his treat

Simeon

he also seems like his things are always clean no matter what

it's almost like he's magic at the rate at which messes vanish

he will feel bad if he sees you cleaning, and will take over

Luke

both of his dads (simebarb sorry for kinda sneaking this narrative in here lol) are both neat people, so it only makes sense for him to be too

after all, he wants to be just like them!

if he catches you cleaning, he will instantly join in

Solomon

he seems like he would live realistically, not too dirty, but also not too clean

if things are a little cluttered, he's alright with it because it looks lived in

if you do spontaneously clean, he'll try his best to make it up to you with his cooking!!

[rootspiral]

Agatha All Along deep dive: episode 8 part 8

(AAA entries: ep1 [1][2][3][4] ep2 [1][2][3][4] ep3 [1][2][3] ep4 [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][+1] ep5 [1][2][3][4][5] ep6 [1][2][3] ep7 [1][2][3][4][5][6] ep8 [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9] ep9 [1][2][3][4][5][6])

so anyway rio could have stepped in at any moment and ejected billy into oblivion / prevented agatha from getting a full recharge. but did she? no, no she didn't. this is absolutely a fucked up game they're playing instead of talking about their feelings. rio tried to talk and agatha rejected her (almost) every time, so theatrics and blood it is! god it sucks so much that this stupid flirt/hurt/posture/dance is the only way agatha allows them to communicate.

agatha's smirk! she's like, now you're gonna get it! now I'm gonna fuck you up!!! rio has been throwing her around like a rag doll, but now that she has her powers back agatha can finally put allllll her shields up and do a little show of her own.

when it comes to agatha everything is about being in control of the narrative, being the one who hurts rather than being hurt, never showing any weakness or vulnerability. she was awfully vulnerable without her powers and that has allowed rio to creep in closer, something that agatha had managed to escape for so long. it's no coincidence that she chooses this appearance, the same one she chose when going face to face with wanda. this is what she was trying to look like with her purple coat too: the formidable, merciless witch. it's an armor she clings to, a mask to feel powerful that won't ever show the mess she's hiding underneath. this is what agatha chooses to look like when she's scared.

rio: fuck off you little meddling twink the adults are talking

agatha: mwhahahah I'm such a big scary villain just lemme check if billy's okay real quick.

actually let me gush for a second about agatha's greenhouse being full of herbs and potions! her witchy basement disappeared because she had built it with a magical illusion, but in here she's been totally experimenting with physical craft (neeeerd).

billy's like, are those two fuckers honestly actually flirting right now

CHILDREN I swear to god

LEAVE MY INFURIATINGLY STUPID EVIL MOM ALONE!!!

poor rio. just her luck that when she finally gets to corner agatha a baby maximoff comes into the picture. I love my perfect mama's boy.

the bittersweet look she gives billy. she's truly having a lot of firsts, now she finally admits that all her dancing/fighting with rio is futile, it's just for show and it won't ever truly solve anything. what is she even doing, involving billy? billy who's still so earnest, so eager to help.

I SEE YOU JAC SCHAEFFER! I SEE YOUR EVIL WAYS! I SEE YOU CREATING THESE SILLY LITTLE SHOWS SO YOU CAN EXPLORE THE IMPOSSIBILITY OF LOSS AND GRIEF AND OUR OWN MORTALITY!!!!

but she's being 100% genuine here???

okay, no, this is still agatha we're talking about.

she's being aT LEAST 80% GENUINE! she's having a moment of clarity, she's contemplating the true awfulness that would be sacrificing billy on the altar of her own fucked up issues. the mask has slipped and the real agatha is peeking through, swords in her heart and all.

her parting words to billy: you are not bad. the same words she wanted to imprint on him when they had their first mask off conversation. don't let people cast you as a villain, like they did with me.

Neither are you, says Billy.

You're the only one who thinks so.

The thing is, being so hated, doing all the fucked up things she does, really hurts agatha. It's no justification whatsoever, doesn't make her any less of a villain. she goes out of her way to be misunderstood, to never show any weakness, to selfishly rationalize all the horror she inflicts, because the alternative is opening up to more potential hurt, and she's been hurt too fucking much in the past. and the more she pushes people away, the lonelier she is. it's a vicious circle.

three people loved her despite it all: rio, and she ran away from her when things got too overwhelming. nicky, and that's a whole other mess that I'll get into next episode.

and now billy loves her, and she craves that love just as much as she wants to run away from it. she'll hurt billy to protect herself, she'll hurt him first because she's afraid that he eventually will leave or die or get mad and will hurt her. because right now? she's feeling so much love for billy, and that's terrifying to her. the more she loves, the more she opens up to heartbreak.

both gorgeous shots

billy: I'm not that nice.

also billy:

then she got an idea. an awful idea. agatha got a wonderful, awful idea.

oh this is perfect, isn't it, agatha? you somehow convinced the boy to turn himself in! if he goes through with it, rio has promised to leave you alone! you'll be free to crawl back to your dark dark corner and accumulate bodies and power like the old miserable smaug you are!

you can see agatha's survival instinct kick into high gear. this is how she has survived so long. this is what she does.

BILLY'S FACE. I got to laugh a bit, sorry kid.

rio shaking her head both in triumph and exasperation. of course you betrayed the kid, agatha you piece of shit. rio didn't expect any less from you.

and she can't even look at him, the coward.

but I thought we were having a moment??

he went ahead and made a grand gesture without being ready to actually sacrifice himself whatsoever, and now he's going "mom??? come back and pick me up, I'm scared??" it's like agatha is kicking a puppy.

the slow, dramatic turn. the evil grinchy grin. this is the most egregious example yet of agatha putting her mask on, and we have all the context to understand exactly what she's doing and to see what's going on both on the surface and inside her wretched little soul. she's not cruel and uncaring, that's play acting - she's actually small and scared and a coward. she's once again running away screaming, rationalizing it as a smart choice and breaking her own heart in the process.

so I know billy's telepathic line was added in post because disney execs feared audiences wouldn't buy agatha turning around on her own. what absolute buffoonery, such massive disregard for your viewers' intelligence.

...on the other hand. billy full on misreading the situation and trying to fix things that are beyond him, only to accidentally hit the target? somehow fixing a delicate fragile problem by hitting it with a hammer? totally on brand for him.

is this how nicky died? it kind of is. she did choose her own fear over nicky's well being, despite loving him so so much.

whether you choose jac's version or disney's version, here's what happens next: agatha stops in her tracks. her stupid grin fades away, and she clutches her chest. she finally did it, she told a lie too big. her poor heart, already bleeding from all the swords stuck in it, simply cannot take one more stab. sure she's all about self-preservation, but at this point she's damned either way: she either goes out saving billy or she's killed by her own regrets and sorrow.

she turns around. she runs. not to billy. to rio.

going back to what my mother jac schaeffer (whom I love more than jesus or pizza) said: this is not agatha enacting a grand plan, she's not taking a ~calculated risk like she'll tell billy later, the fucking liar that she is. sure, she had a vague hope of turning into a ghost, but she didn't know for sure. this is agatha's emotions taking over her brain - like they tend to - and forcing her to use what are probably her final moments on earth to TAKE WHAT SHE'S BEEN CRAVING ALL ALONG

agatha grabs rio's face and SMASHES their mouths together. FULL ON proceeds to EAT HER FACE she wants her so much. rio is shocked for a moment and then closes her eyes and gives in completely. and you can see the poison taking over because this idiot - this gorgeous, tragic dork - has decided to kill herself by absorbing rio's powers - but this is not going to be a mere 'peck of Death', no sir, that's not what it's called! agatha is gonna SNOG Death, she's gonna TONGUE that immortal being, she's GETTING ALLLLL HER MONEY'S WORTH. dear lord the HUNGER and YEARNING and DESPERATION on her face.

and I love that she's taller here. they're basically the same height so who's taller depends on the shoes they're wearing, but I love love love that agatha gets to engulf her for once. agatha taking control, rio giving herself up completely

what? you thought that now that magic has been absorbed THE KISS would be over???? well THINK AGAIN. because now we're going to switch angles, we're going to linger, we're going to make it look like almost gratuitous fan service, oh yes we are!!!

I truly don't know what to say. I would like to thank jac of course, and kathryn hahn and aubrey plaza for MAKING THE FUCK OUT and exchanging so much spit on camera like the true professionals they are. thank you writers room, thank you to all the crew who had to listen to the ungodly noises these two were undoubtedly making. thank you gandja monteiro for directing this. I'm going to even thank the lighting department for making it thunder so we can (more or less) see what's going on. this was truly a group effort. well done you all!

and they keep kissing until the very last available moment, and rio doesn't know how to let her go

but this is so on brand for agatha. you know if rio was in her place she'd try to be as gentle as possible to ease agatha's grief. agatha literally went for the most dramatic, most over-the-top, most emotionally devastating way to go. this was supposed to be rio's big moment! and what does agatha do? she makes it all about herself. again. should be the other way around, but once again rio gives, agatha takes. you just gotta laugh at this point.

Death looks on stone faced as her love turns back to nature and balance is restored. she wraps herself in her cloack and tries very, very hard not to cry.

agatha really went and made rio kill her, didn't she? rio, who isn't ALLOWED TO. these two are soooo wrong and so toxic for each other and yet they love each other so freaking much, I truly cannot get enough of them.

go to episode 8 part 9

[10thmusemoon]

Title for the ask game!

"Good Graces"

lmao prim why does this feel like I'm seeing beyonce at the grocery store??? i love your fics!

okay hm content warning for angst, major character death, bad end

Shenbros that grow up alongside YQY and that somehow makes everything worse.

YQY still makes the unforgivable mistake of saving Shi Wu, Shen Jiu still steps in, but now he has Shen Yuan attached to him too. The two get taken into the Qiu household, QJL still develops an obsession with torturing Shen Jiu but now uses Shen Yuan as collateral.. If he doesn't behave, if he isn't perfect, well then, QJL will just see how his little brother does instead. Throughout this all, the two grow even closer, SJ doesn't let the resentment fester because SY is the only thing he still has, the only thing that keeps his sane. SY bandages his wounds in the night, holds him close, brings him into QHT's circle of safety with clever words whenever possible. He is the only good thing in the world now that Qi-ge is gone. They just need to wait for him to come back, and things will be fine.

And surprisingly, he does! This universe smiles down on SJ for once and shows him mercy. YQY looks like a prince standing behind his shizun, regal in his fine robes, and handsome in the way that well fed nobles can be. SJ tries to focus on the negotiations, but his eyes keep drawing back him yqy's face, awe and hunger at war. It's because of this that he misses the way SY goes stiff, head swiveling between the cultivators in silently growing horror.

The negotiations are easier than SJ ever thought they would be, his and SY's lives are traded from one hand to another like any dirty coin. The only difference being now they are indentured servants, their contracts having an actual time limit, the conditions of which only require them to be CQMS disciples until YQY becomes the new peak lord.

Which is...fine. More than fine, even! SJ is convinced that if he really wanted to, he could convince YQY to runaway with them afterwards. When he tells this to SY he's shocked by his insistent refusal.

"No, we have to stay at CQMS. No matter what."

Whatever.

For 15 solid years, SJ's life is good. He stakes his claim on YQY as soon as he realizes there are people interested in him, shamelessly making himself at home by his side. SJ excels at QJP, determined to be the one YQY can rely on. If SY insists on staying at CQMS, then SY will just have to make it theirs.

(years down the line is experiences gleeful joy at seeing people's face twist when it's revealed he's yqy's spouse.)

SY in all of this, is living in crisis mode! His brother is the scum villain and is going to get qi-ge killed! Why the FUCK did Airplane never mention any of this!!??? No matter how badly he wants to fuck off to the beast peak, he doesn't! He stays firmly on QJP, taking on all the duties that deal with the new disciples to keep them as far as fuck as he can from Shen Jiu's clutches!! When YQY and SJ finally ascend as peak lords, naturally he continues handling any responsibilities of SJ's that deal with one-on-one contact with kids. And honestly? That's the ideal! SY's cultivation has never been as strong as SJ's, he's not the one meant to be the protagonists' narrative foil after all! He can coast by on teaching the fundamentals!

In SJ's eyes, SY continues to be his filial younger brother, taking on the burden of the tasks SJ hates. He spoils him, when possible, in the way only SY and YQY ever seem to understand. They are the only two good things that have been and always will be his. He doesn't need anyone else.

And then NYY arrives, and no one is more surprised than he is that he looks forward to teaching her the guqin, delights in how quickly she picks up the erhu. He doesn't understand why SY looms nervously whenever she's near, is irritated when he starts to suspect why. It's their first huge blow up.

And then the boy arrives.

He can't explain why this particular disciple is so repulsive. Why the dirt seems to stick to him, no matter how clean he is. Filthy fingerprints on grasping hands. Wretched thing has a certain look in his eye, a hunger SJ knows will be ruinous, insatiable. Just the way he trails after SY is enough to make him spit! And SY has always been a soft-hearted idiot, falling for the urchin's sob story! Just as obsessed! If they don't nip it in the bud now, they'll be rumors about them. The kind of things that pull righteous cultivators down from the heavens!

YQY listens to all of this indulgently, combing oil through SJ's hair and kissing his temple. As always, no matter how hard SJ tries to hold on, yqy always manages to pull him from his mood.

"What's wrong with having a favorite?" "It's not the same and you know it!" "He's just a child, if you let Liu-shidi back on QJP, it won't even be an issue."

Lots of grumbling about toads wanting swan's flesh. They both know the root of the issue is just that SJ can't let anything that's his slip out of his grasps. His love is all consuming, kept close to his chest in the fear that it will be stolen away.

LQG is not allowed on QJP, instead, SJ starts to teach more. Tries to test LBH relentlessly, waiting for him to fail so he can prove a point. This makes things worse between the brothers, more and more arguments come up until they resort to childhood tactics of wrestling across the floor of the Bamboo house and ripping out hair. SY breaks a hair pin he knows YQY gave him, SJ tears one of SY's manuscripts on abyssal fauna in half. The fallout is ugly enough that Binghe and NYY run all the way to QDP, breaking past the sect leader's chief of staff about the impending death of YQY's husband and/or brother in law.

Kneeling in front of an amused yqy, bruised and with bald spots, both brothers Shen explain their case, each threatening YQY not to show favoritism to the other. The proposed solution is to have LBH spend some time on Qiong Ding Peak, at least until he's qualified to go on night hunts on his own. SJ is fully convinced he's won, is ready to smugly denounce any comments about Qi-ge's blatant favoritism.

Neither expect SY's eyes go wide, for him to lean forward until he's crawling to yqy's side in excitement. Luo Binghe's praises fall from his mouth like honey. SY's running to his room for a brush and paper, outlining lesson plans and tasks LBH can take on to learn about all the good CQMS does for the realm. To SJ's revulsion, SY badgers YQY until he promises to include one on one lessons. QDP already has a head disciple, there's no harm in it, right?

In Shen Yuan's eyes, a light from the heaven's has shined down on him. Invisible to all, the system flashes an exclamation point above yqy's head, offering an alternative option to saving the sect.

[MISSION OBJECTIVE: SHIBOS GOOD GRACES]

[DO YOU WISH TO ACCEPT? Y/N ?]

It's perfect! No matter how much SQQ hates LBH, the combined forces of SY and YQY will stand united against him! The sect will be saved and SY will never see his white lotus darken! Maybe, and he's nearly salivating at this point, LBH might even consider staying at the sect and becoming the next QJP lord! It will take, of course, years to soften up SJ to that point. But really, when has he ever said no to SY when it truly mattered? He just needs to suck up and live in Shen Jiu's pocket for a little, it's fine! This will be easier than the time he accidentaly came back with several short haired monsters after a mission with LQG and needed a place to keep them! And now they farm them for brushes!

SY sleeps soundly for the first night in years, comforted in the knowledge that LBH's work ethic and stubborn tendencies will surely endear himself to YQY eventually. And then, one day, he knows with certainty, that if he's not there to protect LBH, YQY surely will.

The Immortal Alliance Conference is as disastrous as it was always going to be. There is a countdown floating ahead of Shen Yuan that only he can see. Sweat is pouring down his face as he fights his way after demons he once dreamed about. SY lost track of his brother ages ago, the two separating to different crisis points to save as many disciples as possible. At the three minute mark, bright blue laughing kaomoji offer their congratulations, informing him that the inmun requirements for SHIBOS GOOD GRACES have been met.

SY nearly collapses with relief, his steps slowing down a fraction, just enough to catch his breath. Fuck teaching the fundamentals to scholars nerds did not help him retain cardio! The times is in it's final seconds when he makes it into a clearing, eyes blinking rapidly in disbelief when he passes Xiu Ya embedded into the forehead of a Black Moon Rhinoceros Python's skull. Then, just further ahead, Shen Yuan's heart falls nearly out of his chest.

There are tears streaming down Luo Binghe's face as he tips backward off the cliff. The huadian beneath his messy hair shines a bright red, the soft glow reflecting off Yue Qingyuan's black pauldron. The sect leader, his da-ge, is slumped against Luo Binghe, arms in a tight embrace, an unfamiliar sword piercing him in the back as the two tumble towards an abyssal rift.

The wail of a dying beast pierces through SY's stupor, SJ stands with a blackened hand outstretched, only steps away from following the only man he's ever loved. Shen Yuan moves faster than he ever has before, half blinded by notifications he's never seen before. Something about heartbreak points, swords, and narrative foils. He doesn't care! He doesn't care! SJ is writhing in his hold screaming like a madman, over his shoulder Luo Binghe is getting smaller and smaller, Yue Qingyuan's robes fluttering around them like broken wings. Screams echo through the clearing long after the rifts have closed.

"I'M SORRY I'M SO--"

"QI-GE YOU BASTARD! YOU PROMISED YOU WOULDN'T LEAV-"

-

Five years later, Luo Binghe returns to Cang Qiong Mountain Sect, notably missing the great Xin Mo sword. The protagonist kowtows in the bamboo house, forehead touching the floor and arms extended out to present a mahogany box of bones and a long sword with a plain scabbard before an alter. Shen Yuan kneels next to him, chest shaking with labored breaths, he follows suit with is forehead pressed to the floor. From his peripheral, he can see the way Binghe's shoulders have started to shake, a puddle of tears collecting just beneath his face. A tally of points starts to flash above the boy, Shen Yuan closes his eyes, another useless apology passes through his mind.

"Gege was right, Qi-ge came home."

[thecarnivorousmuffinmeta]

Do you think Tom was the only student Dumbledore hated? I think Tom probably isn't the only Unfavorite Student and there are more out there that Dumbledore was successful at sabotaging.

(Side thought do you think Moody started out on Dumbledore's bad list but then worked very hard to "redeem" himself by trusting Dumbledore in all things and that's why he's so weirdly loyal to Dumbledore?)

Dumbledore and Hating People

The thing is that Tom Riddle does seem to hold a special place in Dumbledore's heart.

There are other characters we see who are also loathsome/have qualities that Dumbledore despises but it's in different ways/not to the same degree.

Dumbledore utterly loathes Lockhart, purposefully sets him up with the job so as to either destroy his reputation fundamentally or kill him. However, I'd say Dumbledore is contemptuous and dismissive of Lockhart. Dumbledore has 0 interest in the man beyond destroying him, and doesn't spend much time thinking about him beyond getting him in the castle and letting the curse do its work.

Dumbledore is dismissive and contemptuous of Cornelius Fudge, but again, doesn't focus on him much beyond pitying his shortsightedness and holding him in general contempt.

Dumbledore similarly doesn't love the Dursleys but it feels like that's in a way of he has 0 opinion or interest in Vernon and just... a very weird treatment of Petunia. I wouldn't even say he dislikes them, in fact, I think he likes the idea of them beyond the general disappointment in not treating Harry exactly the way he'd like (except they are doing that but he'll never say as much).

While we don't know that Dumbledore doesn't have stashes of memories he's painfully collected over the years, going to anyone who ever interacted with Tom Riddle and asking "please give me every memory you have ever had" only for the vast majority of them to slam the door in his face, given the focus he has on Tom Riddle it seems... unlikely...

Add this in with Tom's "dark glamour", the way Dumbledore talks about him, the way he pontificates about him as if he's a fictional character and Dumbledore is writing fanfiction and metas about the man, and we're looking at a... I'll call it a fixation where Tom hit all the right buttons for Albus Dumbledore in a way that other people just haven't.

Basically, the people we see Dumbledore hate just aren't hot enough (or are women so Dumbledore doesn't care).

I'll put it this way. Harry's easily Dumbledore's second fixation, he puts a lot of work into this boy, but Dumbledore's way less... into him is the only way I can put it, than Tom. Harry's there as a vehicle/means to destroy Tom and acts as a foil to Tom. Everything about Harry for Dumbledore is presented as "in contrast to Tom Riddle" and that's telling to me.

As for hating students...

I think most of the time Dumbledore just doesn't give a fuck.

With Draco who was actively endangering the student body, nearly killing several students to ultimately kill Dumbledore, and ultimately letting Death Eaters (including Fenrir fucking Grayback) into the castle where it's a miracle no one died/got lycanthropy Dumbledore was into it and a) knew the whole time b) did nothing to stop it because then Tom would hurt Draco. (It's too bad Katie Bell got cursed for six months in the process of that huh Dumbledore or you didn't approach Draco with that offer to give him clemency until the last five minutes of your life).

I doubt Dumbledore knows who Crabbe and Goyle even are.

And he seemed to favor the Marauders (rampant known bullies) and not care about Severus at the time and now thinks quite highly of Severus for having redeemed himself for love/following a narrative Dumbledore likes while also being unable to not do what Dumbledore wants.

He only cares about Ron and Hermione in relation to Harry and just likes the general idea of them (Dumbledore is very big on the "idea" of people).

Dumbledore and Moody

I don't think so.

We've seen the redemption story Dumbledore likes and that's Severus Snape's. Dumbledore likes a narrative, Moody having been disliked then just choosing to be a sycophant would be very unimpressive for Dumbledore because he'd see no reason for Moody to have changed/not an impressive enough reason.

It has to be for true love, friendship, some reason that is a compelling narrative to Dumbledore.

Everything for Dumbledore fits into these narratives from Merope dying in childbirth (she just didn't love enough), to Lily being murdered (she loved her son so much she sacrificed herself), to Snape (his love for her means he is now undyingly loyal to her son), to everything.

Plus, I don't get that feeling about Moody.

Dumbledore has plenty of people unquestioningly loyal to him, he cultivates the Order such that this is the case, it's not so much that Moody's an outlier for being so loyal but the fact that he is in the Order of the Phoenix at all means he must be this loyal to survive there (notice Percy is not a member). In the Order we're seeing the people who survived the litmus test of "actively not questioning Dumbledore in any decision he ever makes" (see HBP and the Christmas Party and shooting down of Harry's "Draco's up to something and Snape is too" for reasons that are simply "I trust Dumbledore completely" and nothing else).

If Moody wasn't like that, he wouldn't be in the Order.

So, I think Moody's just like the rest of them and I don't see a reason why he would have ever been different.

[almacambiondaughterofsaleos]

The Narrative's Spin Towards Adam And Lucifer's As Fathers

Seriously, the leaks show us that Adam at least has Abel but again due to wanting to make him one dimensional as ever they make him hate is own second born for some reason. This contrast how Lucifer the devil is treated as a misunderstood sad boy who really does love his daughter, but in earlier plans was supposed to be a bad dad. However, he's a fan favorite of Vivziepop so he gets the Stolas misunderstood sad boy treatment despite damning humanity and being homewrecker. Seriously, Vivziepop is allergic to real nuance by making Adam hate his son, Abel, because of the fact that Abel was killed and that could have been a way to maybe explain why he became what he is today but nope he just hates him because "hur be durp" he has to be this flat caricature of a frat boy. And also because this series undervalues platonic and familial relationships unless you are not the designated fan favorite of Viv. Then again even if you are a fan favorite she has a hard time understanding non-romantic relationships.

Seriously, why give Adam a moment of sympathy with his right hand, but not for his son. Again it feels she wants some level humanity for Adam, but isn't willing to go the extra mile or maybe she's afraid he will be even more sympathetic than her so-called dreamboat Lucifer who really is a pos and maybe an even bigger one than Adam when you think about the culmination of his actions. And again Adam's character contradicts what is depicted in the Bible and even if you invoke poetic license bs why is he so apathetic towards his progeny even his own child. It's a missed opportunity for character inspection and again give Adam some redeeming factors that could actually endear him to Lute instead of wondering what the heck does she see in him. Seriously, it would make more sense if he was a good dad as a show of positive elements to them that Lute could be attracted to. Instead of her just being so oblivious to his flaws despite saying Angels are supposed to be perfect when Adam contradicts that.

Also it also pissed me that her issues with her dad was easily solved and that they didn't actually give real issues with him and just made it into a case of misunderstanding. Again it's obvious if you read the early drafts Lucifer was supposed to be a less supportive dad and it would actually give Charlie more of a challenge than if he came easily to her side. Or at least developed it slowly where he grows to gradually side with her instead of rushing one season. And going back to Adam, I don't actually think they will develop anything further with Adam and Abel and just leave it at one note joke to hammer in how much of an asshole Adam is because these people have no originality or complexity to these figures.

[eternalmomentss]

yes king give us the orym meta!

You asked so nicely...

Oh boy, oh boy, where to even start. This has probably been said a million times before, so I might just word vomit a little bit here. I fear this might get a little messy, but just hold on...

So, first of all I have never really enjoyed the idea that Orym is the rational one in the party or that he serves as the one and only true moral compass. I've seen the take that he is the only "normal" person in this group and that he might have exploded and left them at any second because their chaotic, stubborn and messy nature doesn't fit in with his own personality and values. To that I have to say no, he is not the "normal" one, he is not the most "morally correct" one, and yes he fits in very well with this group.

Orym is heavily biased when it comes to the idea of what justice is and what the right course of action might be in their situation, which - just like with most of Bell's Hells, is due to his trauma and genuine concern for the world. His experience with it has just been very different and he gravitates toward the "pro-god" / "anti-ludinus/predathos" side of the conflict because of it, unlike most of the other Hells. But that doesn't mean he isn't a necessary and valuable part of the entire puzzle that led to the outcome they eventually decided on.

Most of the time Orym himself doesn't even realize just how stubbornly narrow-minded and biased he is and how his idea of justice becomes more and more resentful and unyielding. In a way, it's the exact same thing as with say Ash or Dorian, who hold onto their hatred of the gods and the system due to their own trauma. Just because Orym's raw disdain is directed at a more well defined embodiment of a "big bad villain" rather than a concept, doesn't mean it's different at its core. His beliefs kind of remained stagnant and onesided with the appearance of Luda, which makes complete sense. Being confronted with the source of all his misery obviously does that, but he is not more moral or correct than the rest of the group because if it. He says he doesn't want revenge but it's a clear lie.

He regresses hard throughout the course of the narrative, which is the entire focus of his character arc. In his case, regression is progression. He goes from claiming that his family died fulfilling their duty and protecting their home to insisting they died for nothing and Luda is responsible for everything bad that has ever happened in the world. He gets stuck in this deep hatred and focuses on this strict narrative to ease his own feelings of guilt and try to make sense of his trauma (which is valid, of course, I am not saying he shouldn't hate Luda). But with each new terrible thing that happens, he finds a way to pin it on Da'leth. When they discuss the power structure of the current situation, he circles back to the man again and again, even in moments when they really didn't mean to talk about him (for example, at Essek's when Ash and Dorian lamented the power imbalance between gods and people and Orym immediately felt attacked and made it about Ludinus again). He is unable to seperate the two concepts in his head. There is evil, which is Ludinus and there is in turn good, which is everything and anything that man calls an enemy: the gods and the current status quo, because it stands in contrast to him.

And yes he says he is not pro-god, but his understanding and sympathy of the gods grows at the same pace that his hatred for Luda does, to the point that what he fears about Predathos actually happens with the Wildmother (she accidentally pushes him to hard and has her "steps on ants" moment so to speak), but he overlooks it, latches onto her and is quick to forgive, because they have a common enemy and that's all that matters.

Orym's idea of good and bad is basically along the lines of "the thing that hurt me and the side that's against it" (and I am not sayin that isn't understandable, it absolutely is, given what he has been through). He cannot let go of that idea. He kills Ludinus and he enjoys the idea of getting rid of something evil, but once he has done it, he feels empty. Because really, he didn't succeed in snuffing out all evil in the world or ending his pain and guilt just by killing that man. He didn't fix the situation, like he so adamantly told himself he could. It's not that easy. In that moment, he realizes that this is so much bigger and so much more complicated. For probably the first time, Orym has to cave, he shuts down completely because now he sees that the world was never that black and white to start with. And it's so, so heartbreaking.

Orym is fundamentally just as scared and biased and bitter as everyone else. And he does everything to reach his own goals. He gets himself into a pact with Morri, he gaslights himself into believing he has to sell his entire soul away for it (which we know now was never true), risks being enslaved and losing his life. He persists on being noble and dutiful to the point where he feels the need to keep sacrificing himself, keep pushing, keep doing the things he has been doing all this time. In those moments when he might start to see the greyscales around him and he needs to question his own judgement. He needs to revaluate and make this journey make sense again, because there is no way he could be wrong at this point, right? Not after all this time. It's a compulsion inside of him, it makes him run in circles.

(Here I would like to say; I enjoy he idea of ptsd and ocd Orym, which has come up a few times. It really does work well, especially considering the obsessive and compulsive thoughts and behaviour, rituals, rumination, etc.

I am not a therapist, nor am I qualified to porperly evaluate a fictional character's mental state, so of course I cannot claim to know this for sure, it's a headcanon I've seen pop up that I found to be fitting.)

So, there ya go....

Orym of the Air Ashari I adore you, you are not okay.

[allay-uxini]

Thinking about the blue sword boys and the fact that even though they were one of the first alliances in the entire series the three of them never teamed up together with only two of them ever teaming up and the third being an enemy.

In 3rd life Grian was serving Scar and was opposing Martyn and BigB of the red army

In last life Grian and Martyn were teamed up as the southlanders with BigB in the fairies of the castle alliance (hilariously Martyn then betrayed the southlanders to join BigB and become the shadow alliance)

In double life Grian and BigB were secret soulmates with Martyn joining Ren (the guy BigB was cheating on) and Pearl to become the broken hearts club. Grian and BigB were part of the red team and Martyn the yellow team.

In limited life after Grian lost his bad boys he joined BigB's alliance of the nosy neighbours who were enemies of the Mean Gills, Martyn's alliance (not 100% sure I haven't finished watching the finale)

Somehow it was only until secret life that the three of their paths (at least in terms of actually being allies/enemies) never crossed which hilariously means that this alliance has a more convincing "bound by faith" narrative than desert duo, renchanting or box boys (not to throw any hate to them I LOVE those duos don't worry)

Something also needs to be said about how back in 3rd life BigB was the ONLY one to still use a diamond sword with Grian switching to a netherite sword (he no longer uses diamond, he's no longer by their side but he's still the same Grian from day one, a Grian who still loves BigB) and Martyn a diamond axe (he's still blue, he's still by BigB's side but their dynamic has changed into something unrecognisable, no longer two blue boys but rather a hand and a soldier in a brutal war).

I just think there's a lot of untapped potential with this trio that the fandom is sleeping on.

[flower-boi16]

I'm writing a post about Oops and why the episode is a complete disaster on every single level and while I was doing that I realized something;

Anyone who gets upset at Stolas's actions in the show is demonized by the narrative

Stella being upset that Stolas cheated on her? Nah, she was just mad that he slept with an imp. Also, she was an abusive bitch to begin with.

Octavia being upset over Stolas spending more time arguing with Stella and for paying more attention to an imp than her? She should cut him slack, after all, he's trying his best! (even though he isn't but ok).

Blitz hating Stolas for SAing him and how their relationship is only about Stolas wanting to sleep with him? He just hates Stolas for being a prince, oh and Stolas DID do some nice things for Blitz... off-screen...that doesn't automatically make his treatment of Blitz ok but pfft let's just ignore that right?

Every time someone in the show gets upset at Stolas's actions, they are portrayed as in the wrong for feeling that way or in Stella's case just turned into a one-dimensional Saturday morning cartoon villain. Cuz god forbid we hold this stupid owl accountable for ANYTHING right? We need to make him an UwU soft boy who did nothing wrong and everyone who gets upset at him is bad!

.....No. I'm sorry but, no. That's NOT how you make a sympathetic character, you don't demonize every other character to make the other one look more sympathetic and don't coddle that character and absolve them of all of their flaws. Stolas is not sympathetic, no matter how much Viv tries to demonize other characters around Stolas while coddling him, I won't EVER sympathize with this stupid owl. There's nothing about him you can sympathize with, he's just a horny, selfish asshole, and anyone who calls him out for it in some way is demonized by the narrative.

Fucking incredible, what a great and well-written character.

[burst-of-iridescent]

I hate when people say(*writers*) when zuko is an emo bad boy. When zuko acts "emo" and "badboy" as they say it's him reacting to his trauma and abuse as a kid(most of time. Zuko is still badass. But badboy no). Is it an excuse? No. But when zuko is acting that way in canon, his obsession with honor, his yelling, his moodiness, his short temper. That is the product of having his empathy literally beaten/burned out of him by his father(and mocked and emotionally abused by Azula). The reason Zuko is doing this whole thing is because he wants to please his father. Become someone he's not. His struggle of who his father wants to be with who he is. It's because of the abuse of his father and his family. As the series goes on you get more and more flashes of the person Zuko was and the person he can become. By the end of the series it's such a great contrast and Zuko is much more happier because he's with the gaang. His family. He got out of that abusive situation he was in and finally became himself. A dorky, empathetic, caring, skilled swords men, a balanced person. Does he still have moments of anger? Yes. But over all Zuko becomes a fully balanced person.

gasp! but if we don't call zuko a bad boy, however will we make sure people don't get any ideas about shipping him with katara?

jokes aside, you're absolutely right and i roll my eyes so hard when people point to bad things zuko did, or his behaviour pre-redemption as indisputable proof of the kind of person he'd be post-redemption. like you said, a lot of zuko's actions and mannerisms before day of black sun is a direct result of the trauma he suffered, and though that doesn't excuse him - and neither does the show allow it to - discounting it entirely is to erase the abuse zuko endured and how that shaped him.

using the first half of book 3 as evidence of zuko being a supposed bad boy irks me in particular because a) the narrative makes it pretty clear that this is zuko as the worst version of himself, the opposite of everything he actually is and could be, and b) he is stuck in an abusive household at the mercy of his abusers, in an actively life-threatening situation.

zuko knows that he is in a situation where he has no real agency, freedom or control. he knows that aang is alive, that azula has turned him into a scapegoat and that his life will be forfeit if his father finds out the truth. that is an incredibly terrifying and stressful situation to be put in and it's worsened by the fact that he can't even admit it - not just because doing so would mean accepting that he gave up everything that actually mattered in the catacombs to gain nothing in return, but also because no one around him will allow him to do so.

his girlfriend can't understand his experiences or his turmoil and doesn't seem to particularly want to, brushing off his anxieties and encouraging him to stay the course. he is manipulated by his father and gaslighted by his sister, aware deep down that he is entirely under their control and that they have a vested interest in keeping him helpless, yet forced to pretend as though nothing is wrong. he is isolated from the one person who could help - his uncle - physically and emotionally, both because visiting iroh puts zuko in danger, and because zuko's choices have created a rift in their relationship.

all of this compounds the psychological stress zuko is experiencing, forcing him into a constant state of fight-or-flight, and this context is vital to understanding many of the decisions he makes and how he behaves in the first half of book 3.

(this is why i don't agree with the take that hiring combustion man is an ooc moment for zuko because even though i think the idea of combustion man himself is stupid - not to mention disrespectful to the hindu origins it's pulling from - it's a fundamentally desperate move, and zuko at this point is more desperate than he's ever been.)

that's why it's unlikely that zuko post-redemption would behave similarly since many of the factors that contributed to his anger, hostility and moodiness would no longer exist! judging zuko's future behaviour based on a time when he was constantly abused, gaslighted and threatened is just not an accurate or fair means of measurement, especially since we know what he's like at his best. the zuko we see with the gaang still has a bit of a short fuse, sure, but he's also sincere, honest, awkward, shy and far happier than he's ever been. because shocker, people tend not to act the same way in healthy, supportive environments as they do in abusive, traumatic ones. who would've thought?

people who make this argument also usually tend to compare zuko to aang, especially to glorify how aang remains cheerful and peaceful despite his trauma, and... no. just no. first of all, the show barely gives a fuck about developing aang's trauma the way it does zuko's so of course it seems to affect him less, and secondly, there's something to be said about how trauma responses like aang's are a lot more palatable and comfortable for audiences than responses like zuko's, or even katara's in the southern raiders.

anger or moodiness, or wanting to punish the people who hurt you, are not inherently wrong ways to react when you've been wronged and traumatized. praising aang for remaining cheerful and forgiving while calling zuko a bad boy for being angry and moody implies a sense of moral superiority that comes with reacting to trauma in the "right" way, which is both inaccurate and insensitive.

zuko will never be aang, and that's fine. he doesn't have to be. he ends the show reclaiming everything his abusers tried to take from him, having found himself and his destiny, in a place of healing that is all his own. that is an incredibly meaningful and powerful narrative, and the last thing zuko deserves is to have all of his complexity and development stripped just to be reduced to the tired trope of a "bad boy" when he was never one in the first place.

[monstermoviedean]

@angelsdean here: While I do agree with a lot of the bitter deangirl posting abt the Trap I also have always still liked the scene? and offer a slightly less bitter perspective.

I have always viewed the scene less as Dean thinking he NEEDS to apologize but more as Dean understanding Cas feels he needs Dean to forgive him. I read the whole scene (and episode) from the POV of Cas being very rooted in his own insecurities, and thus projecting out a bit and deflecting and being short with Dean. Because purgatory is magnifying Cas's own guilt and well, Cas isn't handling it well. And you Know i am the first to get angry on Dean's behalf and I DO think Cas is being a unfair, but, I think I also need to practice what I preach in the sense that, if it were Dean behaving like this I'd be talking abt his own grief and pain and motivating factors. and i think that applies to cas in this case. he's still in a lot of pain. Cas also bound by his empty deal, possibly purposely keeping Dean at arms length out of fear of triggering the deal if they reconcile too well. We see that "arms length" maneuver at play imo when Dean has more he wants to say and Cas cuts him off. I think, perhaps, part of Cas felt SAFE while they were "divorced" / fighting because at least then he KNEW he'd never be truly happy. Which just breaks my heart for both of them.

Anyways. Dean. We know he's a self aware king. And he's also incredibly emotionally intelligent when it comes to others. Empathy boy, etc. and Cas is his best friend. He knows Cas better than anyone else. And I think he knows Cas is beating himself up. Feeling guilty for everything AND displacing that guilt and anger. Because yea, Dean's been there. And dean's dealt with Sam and John doing similar things too. He understands. And yea it sucks that he's once again putting the feelings of others first, but at the same time, that's his MO. He's the one who cares abt everyone. He's the beating heart of the narrative. And he loves cas. He does. So of course he's going to make sure Cas knows he's forgiven (was always forgiven! implicitly!) and that Cas matters to him. He's his best friend. He never wanted him to leave! (the cut "of course I wanted you to stay" IS canon to me. He said that part quietly, internally, ok).

I view the whole prayer as Dean giving Cas what he needs. Telling Cas what he needs to hear in that moment (and it's not that I think dean doesn't means these things, he does! but I think dean didn't think it needed to be said-- that Dean forgives Cas. that Cas matters to him. but again, Cas is not at his best. In normal circumstances I think Cas wouldn't need to hear it. But just as DEAN is doubting what's real, what matters, I think so is Cas. Yes he told Dean they were what's real, but a lot has happened since then. He let bel's words in hell get to him a bit, for one. He's now feeling out of place in his family, not sure if he ever mattered at all. And so he needs a little reassurance imo. And that's what the prayer scene is to me. It's not about Dean begging to be forgiven. It's dean giving Cas what he needs for Cas to be able to forgive himself.)

As for the stuff abt Dean apologizing for his "anger" -- anger that was justified and part of his grief (he is allowed to be upset that his "son" killed his mom!)-- and "groveling": I don't like it. I don't like that Dean is seemingly positioned as "the bad guy" and the reason for their separation when Cas was the one who CHOSE to leave instead of stay and work things out. And when Cas, in his own pain, stopped giving Dean "the benefit of the doubt."

However. Despite hating it all from a deangirl perspective, I think from DEAN'S own perspective, this IS stuff he believes about himself. Dean has his own fears and insecurities and I think being "angry" and "becoming John" are genuine fears. And I think it's important to remember that what characters say about themselves isn't the Objective Truth. We KNOW Dean is most often "not mad, worried." We KNOW Dean cares so so much and loves so fiercely. We know he's more than his "off" moments. We give him that benefit of the doubt. But Dean? He'll beat himself up for everything. And Cas echos this in the confession when he tells Dean "you see yourself how our enemies see you....You think that hate and anger, that's what drives you. It's not." As much as I think yea Cas should've said all this sooner, I think this part is indeed a response to Dean's prayer. And it's basically Cas saying, "yea all that stuff you said earlier abt always being angry and your anger being the problem, no you're wrong<3 and I do know that you care so so much. About me and jack and sam and the whole world. And everything you do comes from a place of love and good intentions."

Would I have liked to have heard Cas say all this immediately after the prayer and would it have been more effective in relaying the message that Cas doesn't think Dean is ruled by anger or that Dean needs to grovel for his forgiveness over it? yea. yea I think the confession coming 9 episodes later kind of breaks up the flow of this arc. But in this reading, I am willing to give Cas some grace. Right after the prayer they were still under a lot of stress to get back to earth and stop Chuck. Cas is also feeling conflicted abt his deal. Not knowing what he CAN say to Dean. What is even safe to say. And the fact that (imo) a big part of Cas's moment of happiness IS getting to tell Dean how good he is and not Just the declaration of love, just shows that maybe it Wasn't safe for Cas to say all these things to Dean earlier.

Anyways. This has gotten very long but I just wanted to offer a different perspective, that doesn't absolve Cas of his wrong-doings or the part he played in their separation, but is more considerate of Cas's own POV. AND shows Dean being thee heart of the narrative and giving Cas what Cas needs to hear, being emotionally intelligent, but also being just as insecure as anyone else re: his own self-image.

publishing this now because i think you're making a lot of sense and i cannot tell you how much i appreciate your perspective and the time you took to lay it out! i want to respond more thoroughly later but i didn't want to let this languish when it's so dang important and helpful.

[polysyndetonaddictsupportgroup]

You are so right about solo leveling and you should say it. I gave it a try since I like a lot of the webtoons in the “portals opened up/the world ended and now we have super powers” genre, but I really couldn’t connect with any of the characters. It’s also such a shame because I kinda liked that first episode before he got the system. He was a far more interesting character (to me) when it felt like there was human stakes to his battles and not just exp points.

see this is EXACTLY WHY I’m so angry because this is actually a fire concept that had a fairly good execution in the first episode. There was so much potential in jinwoo episode one and particularly in his death scene. He was messy. He was angry. He was passionate. He was complex. And then they dumped that potential out the fucking window to make him Get Stronger Boy.

I have a specific beef with anime where they have the Underdog Protagonist forgo everything that makes him interesting in favor of eternally punching Slightly Harder Than What They Did Before. To a lesser degree, they did it to Midoriya Izuku in bnha. At the beginning, he had to focus on Quirk analysis and planning because he had no power. And then quickly so many of his fights turned into One For All One Million Percent Detroit Smash. And it was just. So disappointing to me. But it was nearly as bad as solo leveling.

I watched episode one and was like “oh I fuck with this.” I was so excited. And then the more I watched the more I was like “I need someone to check if jinwoo has a fucking pulse because I do not think he is a real boy”

I legitimately think that he became the exact kind of guy jinwoo episode one would have hated. There are just. No real stakes in this show anymore. He’s just Getting Stronger. All of his teammates are there to initially shit the bed and then stand at the sidelines gawking at How Powerful He Is. He had a fellow S ranker hauling ass to the fight with a pick axe and determination and when she got there she just stood on the sidelines and watched him be So So Cool with his Washboard Abs and Increasingly Deep Voice. It’s exactly what you said—there are no human stakes to his fights.

The narrative tension is non existent. The plot flatlined sixteen episodes ago and they’ve been weekend at Bernie’s-ing this bitch ever since. You could put a gun to my head and I could not tell you the name of more than two characters and I’d probably be wrong on one of them. If given the option I would drown this man in a bucket just to put this narrative out of its misery.

[akechis-special-case]

One of the most fascinating things about Goro for me is his overall portrayal in the story within Persona 5 (Royal) and despite how easy it was to fall into this trap they did not portray as some ‘sad boy to feel sorry for’ (something which happens more often than not sometimes).

Yes, Goro is a victim of the society he lives in. Being an illegitimate child and later an orphan he went through some terrible experiences. Long story short, the foster care system in Japan is not great. Goro had been dealt a terrible hand in life from the start. Him wanting revenge on everyone but especially the man who wasn't there for him or his mother when they both needed it is honestly understandable. Not to mention his obsession with being accepted as it is very unlikely that he was ever truly loved for years. And when awakening to his powers three years prior to the events of Persona 5, I imagine that Goro felt as if he had some control again as well as power to boot. I imagine all this pent up frustration and anger leads him to love the thrill of battle as well. And the writers dive at least a little into those aspects.

However, at the same time I appreciate that the narrative doesn't redeem nor excuse Goro’s actions. The Phantom Thieves do not excuse any of it nor do they tolerate it yet they do not fully blame Goro either. He still did it though and they do not forgive him. The narrative also never leans into the ‘feel sorry for Akechi’ angle. It gives us his backstory and motives and we can decide our judgement on him from there. Yet it is also always reminding us to not condone his actions either.

And it helps that Goro is self aware of this. He doesn't seek forgiveness because he knows that he won't get it. And even then why would anyone forgive him for murder, especially Futaba and Haru? Heck, Goro is confused that the thieves do not resent him. They are a little cautious around him, yes, who wouldn't be in their position? And those affected the most make it clear that they won't forgive him (Haru even says during a Mementos conversation that she will cut Goro down should he try anything funny). Yet they do not hate him. And that's what confuses him as well. In fact, one can even make the argument that Goro is so insecure that he sees himself as scum as well, unable to be loved for who he is. That's why he had put up a front in the first place for a majority of the game.

I love how the story actually nails striking this balance – Goro is never excused for his actions nor is he truly redeemed but it is still made clear that he as well had been caught up in all of this and that he had reasons leading up to this.

And by no means would I want to excuse his actions either. I can't and won't. What he did truly was terrible. But at the very least the narrative made me understand why he did it. And I think in Goro's case it's also important to understand the why. And I have respect for that. Again, the writers could have easily gone the sad boy route and redeem him but they didn't. And honestly, that's not a bad thing.

[souryogurt64]

sorry, just read all the thing on these guys that andy and pete were close to as teenagers, and sorry but I am a tad confused. I got that these men were/are awful in their beliefs in the regards of women and queers, that they had influence on pete and andy, owned record labels and whatsoever. I wanted to understand better of your perspective on pete and andy knowing these men back then and that they still profit out of some fob stuff, I understand that you have criticism of them, so do I, but I am confused on what the fob fans are saying/ behaving about this, I am not in fandom spaces and blatant oblivious to this situation, but are they following those individuals? supporting them anyhow? Or are they lacking to have a critical position of these ppl bc they were tied to fob or its start? sorry if I misunderstood your point btw

Okay it sounds like youre a teen so if you like fall out boy thats fine and you dont have to worry about it

However to directly answer, I've been in the FOB fandom for like 12 years and I'm not talking about anything specific happening right now. I think as soon as Pete and Andy were young adults they realized they supported gay people and (hypothetically) women and abortion or whatever and used their platform in Fall Out Boy to advocate for that.

However, generally speaking, Fall Out Boy fans tend to gloss over problematic elements of Fall Out Boy's early hardcore projects and just view it as like Twitter Social Justice Warrior-ism rather than a very different thing. This is not necessarily wrong because a lot of is just kids fantasizing about being in a punk band that fights for positive social change, which is like fine

However, I think Fall Out Boy have recently become kind of irresponsible about endorsing a sanitized version of this narrative (For example, the book that came out that insinuated 16 year old Pete Wentz invented "girls to the front" 7 years after riot grrrl did, when the author of this book also quoted someone as saying "nothing predatory happened" at Warped, which is a categorically false statement) because they directly benefit from people believing Pete Wentz invented feminism and attacking anyone who says otherwise, they benefit from people attacking anyone who points out anything bad about hardline, and they benefit from their fans believing nothing bad ever happened to women on Warped Tour and attacking anyone who says otherwise lol. Which is made even more obnoxious by the fact that they are attempting to sell "feminist" bands or whatever instead of just staying in their lane as emos who hate sluts

I used to be one of these people because my brain wasn't developed enough to understand the nuance of the world but yeah.

[chacharealsmooth07]

Blah blah, something about how Edwin chose to be "soft" after hell but what if he didn't?

The toughest thing that one can do in a mean world is to keep being kind. And he chose that. He chose to be kind. He disregarded 70 years of being ripped apart to care for a random dying boy, to keep him company. He is tough.

Blah blah, smth like choices and time being main plot points, but what about the clear struggle between good and bad?

Crystal being good now, doing good now, but coming to remember she did all sorts of (objectively) horrible things.

Charles wondering if he became the very thing he was devoting his whole life and afterlife to protecting people from, when he is (non objectively) way better than those he was comparing himself to (his father, his bullies, the two jock boys)

Edwin wondering if he can ever do enough good to be able to save himself from the torture he thinks he must endure forever? All on a technical error? (After having been back to hell, maybe he was meant to be down there. The grudges he holds have a hold on him. And if you punish yourself everywhere is hell, but if what if that's where you belong?)

Monty wondering if he can choose to be good, if he can BE good when all he ever has known is obeying to the whim of a person who is executing bad acts. Can he ever really be good if doing bad is written into him?

The cat king, and his perspective. Good and evil are the same thing if you look at them from far enough away, if you stop focusing on who you hurt and more on what you want. But sometimes he sees it, and he hates it, and he distances himself again.

Esther, being so corrupt by thinking she is the victim that she is good because she was hurt first, thinking her hurt gives her the right to hurt others. Feelings are always valid, the actions tied to them, killing countless girls, killing Niko? Those were not.

Niko, the kindest, sweetest, easily favorite of the show and fandom, she struggles with the guilt of leaving her mourning mother with nothing but her father's body and memories. She can't even mail a letter back. And when she does, she dies. And her body probably reaches her mother before the letter does.

Something about Charles not finishing stories. Something about how he doesn't read the endings, he makes his own. He gets to look back and make sure Edwin is safe, because he never knew that Orpheus couldn't. He does get out of Hell with the love of his (after)life, because he didn't know Orpheus didn't.

He found the love only myths could write off, and left off the endings. He would have love that didn't hurt, even if he had to hurt more to get to it, even if he had to die and run for it. And he would write his own endings.

Something about how Edwin knows the endings, but he goes along anyways. Because he trusts Charles to change the ending. To change the narrative. They both love each other (maybe not expressly in the same way, but it's still love) and maybe that's enough to change the narrative. Maybe the love is enough.