#naerys and aemon shipping

[horizon-verizon]

Do you think that the showrunners are trying to push Aem0nd x Helaena down our throats? When there is zero hints in the canon source material? When Aem0nd has the largest dragon of that time yet did not bother himself to save his mother and sister. One of the worst aspects of this show is the the whitewashing of this h*ler in disguise.

Answered HERE. 

[linaartsblogsworld]

▪️𝑴𝑨𝑴𝑨'𝑺 𝑩𝑶𝒀𝑺 𝑺𝒆𝒓𝒊𝒆𝒔: 𝐍𝐚𝐞𝐫𝐲𝐬 𝐓𝐚𝐫𝐠𝐚𝐫𝐲𝐞𝐧 𝐚𝐧𝐝 𝐃𝐚𝐞𝐫𝐨𝐧 𝐈𝐈 𝐓𝐚𝐫𝐠𝐚𝐫𝐲𝐞𝐧 .

[travllingbunny]

While House of the Dragon is an adaptation that presents a version of a portion of Targaryen history that is, in th source material, presented through multiple unreliable narrators in the form of questionable historical sources and rumors, with multiple versions of almost any event, relationship, characterization or character motivation, there are moments when the show puts the viewers into the roles of Mushroom and the various maesters from Fire and Blood and letting them project their interpretations on the text.

Nowhere has that been as obvious as with the way the show has been portraying the dynamic between Aegon II, Helaena and Aemond and playing with parallels to the (for the characters in HotD) future Targaryen history and the dynamic that George R.R. Martin wrote between Aegon IV the Unworthy, Naerys and Aemon the Dragonknight, or rather the perceived dynamic we hear about through various mentions in the main series and the accounts The World of Ice and Fire.

It's those parallels that are used in the fandom as an argument for supposed subtextual romantic connection or even a full blown affair between Helaena and Aemond... Which I find funny, because the story of Naerys and the Dragonknight is actually very ambiguous and a matter of perception, since we have no real insight into the real dynamic between the characters other than the rumors, stories and songs.

There are 3 diffrent ways to read the 'triangle' between Aegon the Unworthy, Naerys and the Dragonknight.

According to Aegon the Unworthy, they were having an affair. Some people believe that to be true, but the majority in-universe think that Aegon the Unworthy was simply a massive asshole who was being purposefully spiteful and politically disruptive by legitimizing his bastards while also trying to undermine his son and heir Daeron II, and the rumor of Daeron's supposed bastardy would be exploited by the Blackfyre supporters.

While some discordant voices in the ASOIAF fandom argue that Naerys and the Dragonknight did indeed have an affair which produced Daeron, because that would be 'more interesting', the popular view of Naerys and the Dragonknight's relationship in Westeros - and in the majority of the fandom - is that it was a tragic unconsummated romance, because the Dragonknight and Naerys were just too good and honorable people to give in to their desires. which is how the popular Westerosi courtly love songs portray it. (Which has also been used as an argument in the HotD fandom: since Aemond is not remembered in history as a good person - to put it mildly - it simply follows that he must have had an affair with his sister, if there's even a slightest thing that may be interpreted as a clue about that! - Right? Meanwhile Helaena's characterization isn't given much thought.)

But there is a third possibility, one that strangely gets ignored both in-universe and in the fandom, but I consider to be the most likely: that Dragonknight was simply a good brother who loved his sister in a normal brother-sister way, was upset that Aegon was treating her so badly and wanted to protect her. Which, I would say, are perfectly normal things for a sibling relationship. Call me crazy, but I would think that a brother and a sister being close and loving each other is what most people would consider normal, rather than the complete disinterest, indifference and disdain that we see between Aegon II and Helaena in the show or that Aegon the Unworthy was showing to Naerys. However, since they are Targaryens (and in everyone's view, Targaryens cannot possibly have a normal sibling relationships), and because of the rumors started by Aegon the Unworthy, everyone became convinced Naerys and Aemon the Dragonknight were in love, without any real evidence.

...Which is an amazing parallel to the HotD fandom right now and how it sees Aemond and Helaena in the show. Any sign of closeness and love, which should be normal for siblings, is romanticized. Some do it because they genuinely want to read a romance into it (with little other alternative as of season 1) and because they ship them, and others because they want to another story of a secret adulterous affair and royal bastards in orderto fit a certain narrative and serve an agenda.

It's funny HotD has ended up being so incredibly meta.

[fadingstudentbananacookie]

It's hilarious how Daemon and Rhaenyra's grandchildren carry the Green's legacy in spirit by destroying House Targaryen through internal conflicts decades later.

Aegon IV grows up to be far more extreme and gluttonous than Aegon II could ever be, coupled with a greater degree of cowardice (Aegon II would never). His sister Naerys is a little Helaena/Alicent-coded, but her cousin Daena mirrors Alicent more than I could imagine. And I am precisely talking about book!Alicent here.

Both Alicent and Daena were unapologetic in their pursuit of power after years of abuse and neglect, demanding the realm recognize their sons as kings by birthright. Neither of them gave two fucks about starting a civil war and I call that a slayyy. Go, my queens!

If Daena had been more like Rhaenyra, believe me when I say I wouldn't have liked her as much. It's their defiance that makes both Alicent and Daena more compelling characters.

I don't necessarily think Daena would have liked Alicent, but she would have definitely felt grudging respect and admiration for her courage.

Daeron the Young Dragon is just like Daeron the Daring (both are extremely popular among the nobles and the smallfolk). Both died young and were eternalized. Baelor the Blessed is obsessed with catholicism and guilt to a point that would even scare Alicent and Criston.

Aemon the Dragonknight is essentially a more refined, though not necessarily cooler, version of Aemond One-Eye. Aemon literally stood aside while his sister endured years of sexual and psychological abuse from her brother-husband. Aemond would never have stood by if Aegon II had tried to harm Helaena. His loyalty and protectiveness towards his sister would have driven him to intervene. Their love stories are similar too, with many fans shipping Aemond with Helaena, and Aemon with Naerys.

Elaena is intriguing, but there's not much to say about her or her sister Rhaena.

Daemon and Rhaenyra's grandchildren are worse than the Targtowers in every aspect. Alicent (the Hightowers) and her children de-stabilized House Targaryen during the Dance, but Rhaenyra's grandchildren did so much worse by starting a civil war that lasted for generations to come. Team Black got the realm and power back, and they still fucked up. Again.

Another intriguing aspect is that Alicent and her children had legitimate reasons to resist and fight for Aegon's claim to the throne by feudal right—even if those reasons were fueled by spite and revenge. Alicent endured years of sexual abuse from Viserys, bearing children he barely acknowledged. She was humiliated in court and called "mad" when her son lost his eye, and Rhaenyra's son faced no repercussions—not even a slap on the wrist.

The Targtower children were neglected by their father for years and were practically forgotten when Rhaenyra lived in the Red Keep with her sons in tow. (And if you think Rhaenyra didn’t use her father’s love and rejection of his other children as a political machination, then you’re an absolute idiot.) If usurping her throne was the biggest fuck you they could give Rhaenyra and Viserys, then I fully support it!

Despite their complicated and angry feelings towards each other, the Greens would never act on them to cause significant harm. They understood that they only had each other for support and protection. But Rhaenyra's grandchildren, who were also in a similar situation, harbored outright hatred for each other for no reason! You'd think after the Dance, they would have learned a thing or two about the importance of family, but the gang didn't give a single fuck LMAO.

Daemon and Rhaenyra's grandchildren didn't have significant opposition. House Targaryen still held substantial power and ruled over the other Great Houses. Although they had to be more cautious without having dragons to threaten others, the internal strife could have been avoided if Daena and her sisters had been treated like actual human beings rather than cattle. (If Alicent was treated better and her children were acknowledged by Viserys and the rest of his family). The lack of care and respect towards them sowed the seeds of war, leading to the internal conflicts that ultimately weakened the dynasty.

The generational cycle of abuse and neglect within House Targaryen is one of the main key reasons why they were driven to extinction in merely three centuries. House Hightower and House Baratheon only did so little to show their true color.

Rhaenyra's claim that "The only thing that could tear down the House of the Dragon was itself," couldn't be more accurate!

[nightingale2004]

What I think HOTD Ships would name their children

Jacegon: Jaehaera and Jaehaerys (twins), Valerion, Visenya, Aerea, and Rhaenar

Lucemond: Rhaegar, Rhaellyra, Vaenaera, Laenor, Valaeria, Aerys and Aenys (twins), Maegelle, Alyssa, Saera, Corlys, and Aemara

Baelaena (Baela x Helaena): Laena and Maella (twins), and Naerea

Rhaemund (Rhaena x Garmund): Valaena, Danaera, Orea, Rosalyn, Jeyne, Baeryssa, and Rhaenyssa (twins)

Joffron (Daeron x Joffrey): Aemon, Gaemon, Aelix, Naerys, and Aethan

[lizzie-queenofmeigas]

If TG wanna hate Targaryens and Daenerys, fine! Just stay consistent in your hatred. Stop stanning the Greens, they’re Targaryens and never once refer to themselves as Hightowers. Stop comparing your favs to Targaryens. Say goodbye to “my ship is just like Jaehaerys and Alysanne or Aemon and Naerys” and “my faves are like Aegon, Rhaenys and Visenya.” Stop wanting your faves to have dragons, I thought they’re weapons of mass destruction and nuclear bombs ? Stop giving them elements of Daenerys’ storyline, her quotes, titles and traits. No more “I’m no ordinary woman, my dreams come true” for Helaena, no “mother of dragons” titles for Alicent and Elia, no more “my fave will ride one of Daenerys’ dragons!” Stop stanning House Tully, Baratheon and Tyrell, they owe their relevance to Aegon the Colonizer, they are literally collaborators with a colonial government per your own arguments! Stop wanting Jon to be the son of Rhaegar, he was a colonizer who cheated on his Italianx wife, stop basing your arguments on Jon being Azor Ahai on the basis of being Rhaegar’s son, stop fantasizing about him riding a dragon or wielding Dark Sister. Stop wanting your favs to sit on the Iron Throne, that’s a Targaryen creation, and by the way they should not rule the Seven Kingdom’s either, this state was created by House Targaryen, let Westeros decolonize and go back to being seven backwards regions going to war under the smallest pretext! Stop stanning Young Griff, he’s a Targaryen and canonically doesn’t mention his Martell mother. Stop whining about the deaths of Jaehaera and Helaena, they’re Targaryens, shouldn’t you be happy that there’s two less ? Stop watching HOTD and don’t watch any future Targaryen centric prequels. Stop shipping Rhaenicent, one part of this ship is literally someone you consider a nazi colonizer whose ancestors genocided Westerosi, why would you want her anywhere near your pure Andal favorite ?

The truth is that the Targaryens are the coolest house in ASoIaF with some of the best characters and Targ antis know it.

"This ask is lifted from ozymalek/phoenixashes".

[goodqueenaly]

Which pre/post-Conquest events and in-series events do you think would be popular plays/operas in each of the Seven Kingdoms and Essos?

Well, we do get a bit of a sense of what sort of "history plays" have been written and performed in Braavos (though whether these have been popularized elsewhere in Essos is a bit of a mystery). Arya references the mummers of the Ship teaching her speeches from, among other plays, The Conqueror's Two Wives, presumably about Rhaenys and Visenya Targaryen (which I personally think would be a potentially fascinating study on the respective characters of as well as the relationship between the two sisters). Likewise, in "Mercy", Arya-as-Mercy notes that Izembaro borrows a threat from Prince Garin in Phario Forel's Wroth of the Dragonlords, a play about the doomed final resistance of the Rhoynar against the Valyrian Freehold. Of course, the main action in "Mercy" centers around the staging of Forel's newest work, The Bloody Hand, a play which - obviously more than a little loosely - adapts very recent Westerosi history, staged in that chapter for the entertainment of the Baratheon-Lannister court's envoy, Harys Swyft.

Westeros doesn't appear to have exactly the same theatrical tradition Braavos seems to have, but there are certainly both puppet shows and mummer's plays performed across the Seven Kingdoms. While the specific entertainments we've seen have been limited to either mythological (the story of Florian the Fool) or allegorical (the unsubtle tale of the kingdom of beasts reported by Qyburn to Cersei) subject matter, there might nevertheless be any number of opportunities for historical events to, no pun intended, take center stage. There are way, way too many historical events and figures in the roughly eight millennia of Westeros' existence as a collection of political entities (again, to say nothing of Essos), so these ideas are not even scratching the surface, but I thought I would come up with a few.

So, for example, the accusations against Queen Naerys and Prince Aemon (perhaps complete with a Katherine of Aragon-like defense by the queen) might mirror, say, Henry VIII. The collapse of the Gardener kingdom under the weak and ineffective Garth X, followed by a devastating civil war, feels to me like an opportunity for a Reach version of Henry VI (perhaps echoed with the Dance of the Dragons, many centuries later). Even the story of Torgon Greyiron might have its share of light Hamlet parallels, as the story of a royal son quasi-usurped from his royal place by the wicked murderer of his kinsmen while he was away from his homeland (though with Torgon having something of a more fortunate ending than Hamlet himself, naturally). Not, of course, that we need to limit our imaginations only to perfect parallels of Shakespeare plays (to say nothing of any other history playwrights). Benedict Justman, for one, seems like a figure whose life could be used to ask deep questions on, say, the nature of power, the importance of love versus duty, and the importance (or not) of legitimacy. The flight of the Manderlys from the Reach and their welcome by the Starks might likewise be used by some enterprising playwright to explore themes of justice (and injustice), alienation, and self-identity.

And of course, what entertainments might be popular would likely be dependent on the politics of any given time and/or place. Would, say, plays depicting King Ronard Storm have been popularized during the reign of King Aegon IV or King Daeron II - maybe to denounce Ronard's reign as defined by lasciviousness and resistance to lawful authority (as with Aegon's), but maybe also to depict a bastard as a stronger and more worthy heir than his legitimate half-brother (if, say, the play was written by Blackfyre partisans)? Perhaps in the immediate aftermath of Robert's Rebellion, Riverlands playwrights would have looked for inspiration to the heroic uprising of Edmyn Tully against the wicked tyrant Harren Hoare (though perhaps with less emphasis placed on the king rewarding Edmyn being the first of the recently overthrown Targaryen dynasty). Daeron I's conquest of Dorne might have encouraged pro-conquest playwrights to create works about King Durran the Young, whose similar name, apparently similar youth, and very bloody military campaigns against Dornish armies might have made a natural comparison for these creators (though probably less so the idea that King Durran supposedly "became besotted with his own niece in later life and died at the hands of his brother Erich Kin-Killer").

Personally, I would love to see more fanfic invent plays or similar entertainments from Westerosi history. I, of course, would be remiss not to note my own, albeit very humble attempt at a Westerosi history play, The True History of the Blackfyre Rebellion. (And please no one remind me that I have a second play that I probably have to completely rework and is certainly nowhere close to being done.)

[bl00dlight]

Helaemond antis gotta be some of the most boring bitches

All they do is complain and gaslight us all into think we are delusional for picking up what the actors legit did themselves

Hmmmmmmmmmmm yessss I think alot of the antis come down to two camps;

-book purist reddit dudes

-self inserter girlies who love alysmond/helaegon

Prove me wrong.

Yea yea yea there are other bullshit excuses people might give. And sure they may be valid. But both Alys x Aemond and Helaena x Aegon are SIGNIFICANTLY more like... morally questionable. Oh okay, so we got the 40-400 year old witch who may or may not be a master manipulator fucking an 17-18 year old who is criminally insane and possibly has taken her as a sex slave after Ethnically cleansing her entire House, whom he also abandons and then decides to come back for as an afterthought...

And we got the martial rape/neglect poster Child Aegon who rapes young serving girls paired with the deeply traumatised Helaena.

And yet the idea of the doomed bpd Aemond x his prophetic neurodivergent sister where they find a shared understanding of being deeply neglected and then she watches him descend into darkness despite the fact he still ultimately loves and care for her - so basically.... Padame and ANAKIN LMAOOO or half the books popular on tik tok.

That is the one which is egregious? The only ship which has been even acknowledged by the actors to have weight in the theory that Helaena and Aemond share a bond? I mean like the show itself validates us, young aemond wishing he was betrothed to her, defending Helaena, the actors implementing the character relationships, the fact Aemond is the one to even clock Helaena is a dragon dreamer - the entire balcony scene.... also remember all those pre show leaks that discussed Aemond x Helaena x Aegon being in a Aemon x Naerys x Aegon parallel and uhhh young Aemond leaks about him supposedly being in love with his sister on the character descriptions?

Like there is plenty there for people to grasp onto lmao.

I think people were really fucked off about the whole 'the kids were his' thing, but personally I just thought that was fun speculation. Fan theories are a staple in this world? Also personally I've seen very few Helaemonds who died on the hill without question the kids were his.

Helaemond is probably the least insane ship, espeically when you think about the fact people ship.... Luke and Aemond.... uhhhh. Also... Aegon and Aemond. Idk about yall, I don't really think I've ever seen a moment between Aemond where he reasonably loved either Aegon or Luke. But he did move in front of Helaena when Rhaneys attacked the dragonpit... so... and he also did say as a kid he lowkey would marry her. And then also begged her to come with him to Harrenhal. So clearly there is uhhh some connection.

People also act as though the idea of Aemond and Helaena is so preposterous as if the entire show isn't about hypocrisy and external martial affairs.

They also act as though Targaryen siblings ain't constantly been getting into messy ass love triangles where they sucking or ATTEMPTING to suck and fuck one or both. Cough cough.

Visenya x Aegon x Rhaenys

Bittersteal x Sheira x Bloodraven

Aegon x Naerys x Aemon

And honourable mention to Baelon x Alyssa + this diva Viserra trying to suck and FUCK on Baelon???

So like.... not really so sure how it's such an outrageous concept.

Again most of the time the critiques of the ship aren't valid other than the fact that 'It isn't canon' - but it's like what the fuck constitutes as canon? And why does it only apply to Helaemond. No one cares that Rhaenyra x Alicent isn't canon. No one cares that Rhaenyra x Mysaria isn't canon. Daemon x Alys isn't canon AT ALL, like Daemon legit doesn't think twice about Alys. And Helaena and Aegon aren't canon either - they are just in a fucken marriage with each other to which the actors have stated they don't really love each other? So is it a canon romance? No. Are they married? Yes. But Rhaenyra and Laenor were married too, I don't see anyone shipping them.

I legit don't care who people ship. But it's always obvious it's a THEM thing when they haven't got any real points other than virtue signalling or just being hateful. Like I said, Helaemond is probably the least problematic logistically. And is not out of the question in world (as said by the actors and proof by canon have it be a theme amongst targ siblings). They mad cause they jealous, they mad cause it doesn't align with THEIR personal wants/desires etc.

For example you cant sit here and tell me Alys is a healthier choice for Aemond or Aegon a healthier choice for Helaena? At worst it's equal. So anyone who pretends to give a fuck is just like... annoying.

Which is a big factor. Many in this fandom are annoying as fuck. They are rude to actors, rude to other fans, hateful, and take it so seriously that it literally sucks the joy from it. Like seriously, it's not that fucken deep and people DO need to chill. I've seen fans on twitter get called BAD PEOPLE for shipping Helaena and Aemond??? Like that's crazy.

I'll sit here and admit I love toxic and messy ships cause it's interesting. I don't fucken like boring fluff. Go watch Bridgerton or whatever the fuck, HOTD is not for those ships. So it would be alot more fun if people would just admit to wanting to see some messy and fun shit instead of posturing morality over fictional magical dragon flying people.

The point is, people hate Helaemond because it has the most plausibility in the show to become a thing. And it did. People don't get that most Helaemonds don't really care nor did we expect a romance. We just wanted interaction with subtext... and uh.... we won. Hoes mad on tumblr cause they wanna self insert. Hoes mad on reddit cause they wanted a documentary instead of a prime time TV show.

But helaemond?

We won. Pay them no mind. We been out here doing it for helamond and they mad cause it worked.

Oop..

[sayruq]

I'm cackling at some of the Targ stans on Twitter freaking out about rumors that some of the dragonseeds might be bastards of Baelon, Viserys and Daemon's dad, saying things about HotD like "fuck this show if it turns out Baelon had bastards!" They're acting like Baelon and Alyssa had the greatest love story! And it's been a long time since I read F&B but what was so great about Baelon? Or his relationship with Alyssa?

lmaooooo there's no way there are legitimate Baelon/Alyssa shippers but then again, they're the only incestuous relationship seemingly without any issue

Aegon and Rhaenys had infidelity rumours (that I actually believe)

Aenys and Alyssa aren't this great love story and also they're not siblings

Jaehaerys and Alysanne became abusive

Rhaenyra and Daemon was very dysfunctional by end and also involved infidelity

Aegon II and Helaena were not exactly in love

Aegon IV and Naerys was very abusive, Naerys and Aemon is only romantic I'd you ignore that the fact he put his duty to Aegon above Naerys' wellbeing

Jaehaerys II and Shaera were responsible for Aerys II's marriage to Rhaella, etc

So Baelon and Alyssa are the sole incestuous relationship where the couple seemingly loved each other. If you love House Targaryen for all the incest, this is probably the ideal Targaryen ship, nevermind that it's plagued by the same issue of grooming (wanting to marry your own brother isn't natural. You have to be groomed into believing your only role in life is to be your brother's spouse).

This is actually so funny. Though, I am a little bummed there won't be any ambiguity with the dragonseeds.

[feanoryen]

What your favorite Targcest ship says about you

Aegon/Rhaenys - You like the idea of a stoic sad boy who's soft for one lady.

Visenya/Aegon/Rhaenys - You like power couples and think the "Duty Vs. Desire” line was complete bullshit and think all the Conquerors loved each other.

Visenya/Aegon - You like girls who can beat you up.

Visenya/Rhaenys - You think Aegon is overrated.

Rhaena/Aegon - You're probably bi.

Maegor/Rhaena - You don't exist. If you do, you probably read fics that completely changed their canon characters.

Jaehaerys/Alysanne - You like the forbidden love trope and power couples.

Baelon/Alyssa - You like jocks.

Viserys/Aemma - You only ship them out of spite for Alicent.

Daemon/Laena - You believe in the idea that a bad boy can change for a girl.

Daemon/Rhaenyra - You think evil men are hot and don't want them to change.

Laena/Rhaenyra - You think they could both do better than Daemon. Also you think they're hot.

Aegon/Helaena - You by all likelihood don't exist. EDIT: You exist apparently! You love the arranged marriage trope with the added spice of incest.

Helaena/Aemond - You like the idea of Naerys & The Dragonknight but you like evil men better.

Aegon/Naerys - You shouldn't exist.

Aemon/Naerys - You like tragic love stories.

Daeron/Daena - You like the idea of the Conquers but you're monogamous. (Daena is kind of a mix of Visenya & Rhaenys)

Baelor/Daena - You don't exist.

Bloodraven/Shiera - You like goth power couples with questionable morals.

Jaehaerys/Shaera - You like Walmart Jaehaerys x Alysanne.

Aerys/Rhaella - You shouldn't exist.

Jon/Daenerys - You like Rhaegar x Lyanna and their Fire/Ice vibes but you also like incest.

[darklinaforever]

Hello fans of Targaryens ! Here are my other favorite incestuous ships, besides Daemyra from Fire and Blood / HOTD !

(I specify that there is no order) Let's start by staying in the GRRM universe :

Jon Snow & Daenerys Targaryen (Jonerys), from @wweskywalker :

Let's cry about the fact that GRRM will probably never write the final book and therefore we probably won't see them reunite as a result ! Seriously George, what have you done with your book series ?! (You criticize Tolkien but at least he finished his main story...)

Baelon Targaryen & Alyssa Targaryen, from @naomimakesart

Aemon Targaryen & Naerys Targaryen, from @wweskywalker :

King Aegon III Targaryen & Queen Daenaera Velaryon @naomimakesart :

King Aegon I Targaryen & Queen Rhaenys Targaryen, from @dudlesdudles :

Daemon Blackfyre & Daenerys Targaryen, from @wweskywalker :

Jacaerys / Jace Velaryon & Baela Targaryen, from @chiaracognigniart :

Now, outside the GRRM universe :

And yes, for those who didn't know, Percy & Annabeth (Percabeth) are cousins, and for Aragorn & Arwen and Gideon & Gwen they very distant cousins, due to a certain number of generations separating them.

[novembermorgon]

What are your favorite asoiaf couples? If you even have any. (Not counting your oc, bc I suspect that Myrielle x Aerion or Myrielle x Daeron might be top 10 places XD)

LMFAO well myrielle is on my mind more than is probably healthy so that kind of gives her an unfair advantage ...

in canon though ...... i'm not a super big shipper tbh outside of oc stuff . but i'm fond of sansa x margaery in both the books and the show, as well as sansa x domeric but that's a kind of crackship lol ... sansa x mya stone ? sorry. too many sansa ships... roose x catelyn is fun too . there's a theme going on here

tyland x alicent has sort of grown on me but im not really that into hotd anymore so it's a little bit whatever . maegor x aenys is fun . aemon x naerys but it needs to be really specific and one sided and weird for me to be into it

ermm... i have a few more that i like but theyre kind of nothingsauce because its a lot of characters that dont really have canon personalities like the women in dunk and egg LOL

also i wouldnt call it a ship but the larra rogare/vis ii dynamic is really interesting to me

[g0lightly]

tinfoil-encrusted brienne/sansa "foreshadowing" that makes me feral

so i love the blog @jonsaforeshadowing bc i think it's such a fun look at shipper goggles in this fandom regardless of your thoughts on that particular ship. while i do not ship j*nsa i think it's healthy to remember how absurd shipping in asoiaf is even if (especially if?) you are a shipper! largely bc like... what do we even think of as endgame in this series? being married? we know not everyone who marries in a feudal system even likes the person they're married to. also... pretty much anyone could die! and so many characters are thematically linked in significant ways that aren't necessarily romantic! so i think there's a ceiling on how sure anyone can be of any ship being endgame. especially since we may never get another main series book lmfao! so just want to be clear that i'm not coming at this from an angle of knowing better than people who prefer other ships, we are all equally right and wrong unless/until the series is completed IMO.

in that spirit i wanted to post my own niche shipper theories in wildly varying degrees of seriousness about brienne/sansa because i believe in gay ships' right to be as delusional as straight ships. mostly for fun but i'd being lying if i said i don't hope you read this and think "oh i never thought of them together but this eats! i should start shipping the one true pairing briensa and also read tumblr user g0lightly's post-canon fanfic mostly about them on AO3 🤔" while they’re my otp, I want to be clear that I only ship them as adults.

starting strong with the dumbest one: brienne's ancestor dunk has a romance with rohanne webber, a redheaded woman who has had several husbands/betrotheds die on her and eventually marries a lannister like sansa. i know ppl say this is about jaime bc rohanne is his great-grandmother but in the spirit of getting silly with "foreshadowing" jaime is now a sansa stand-in for the purposes of this post 🙂‍↕️

in AGOT sansa i, sansa says that joffrey is "so gallant, she thought. The way he had rescued her from Ser Ilyn and the Hound, why, it was almost like the songs, like the time Serwyn of the Mirror Shield saved the Princess Daeryssa from the giants..." as ned later points out, joffrey is nothing like the knights of the songs sansa dreams of. littlefinger's sigil is a giant. serwyn is one letter off from selwyn, brienne's father's name. perhaps brienne will help sansa get away from littlefinger.

mirroring (ha) the above point, in AFFC brienne vii, randyll tarly gives a whole speech to brienne about how he thinks her father would rather have a living daughter than a "shattered shield." while i think the shattered shield imagery in this text (also in F&B when jaehaerys has saera's lover executed and in ACOK sansa vi when cersei talks about highborn ladies' "golden shield" against SA) represents a "ruined" woman, i think the imagery is also evocative of a mirror shield.

in AGOT sansa vi, sansa reads about aemon the dragonknight, florian and jonquil, lady shella and her rainbow knight. sansa is related to lady shella whent and in ACOK brienne becomes a rainbow knight for renly's kingsguard. i can see brienne mirroring aemon the dragonknight in the sense that she and sansa would have a forbidden love like aemon and naerys but for different reasons.

in ACOK sansa ii, sansa prays for a true knight and a friend to champion her. of course, she gets dontos as her "florian" instead and learns that life is not a song. later in catelyn ii, catelyn meets brienne who later swears herself to bringing sansa to safety. catelyn notes her similarities to sansa. brienne is also connected to jonquil through her maidenpool chapters; does this mean sansa will end up with a jonquil rather than a florian? perhaps a jonquil darke type? idk but i want to believe!

also in ACOK, both brienne and sansa hang onto bloody kingsguard cloaks that were technicaly supposed to belong to barristan selmy. i have written about this in far greater detail here and here.

jaime is a sansa stand-in because they are both maiden-coded and called kingslayers (this is a deeply unserious point btw)

speaking of jaime, his attraction to brienne mirrors sansa's possible attraction to mya. both sansa and jaime are conventionally attractive characters used to being praised for conforming to their gender roles reckoning with the beauty of a gender-nonconforming woman when they have come to understand their own beauty through a conventional framework. i have also written about this in greater detail.

both sansa and brienne are paired up with a lannister twin who holds the gendered societal role they aspire to (queen and knight of the kingsguard, respectively). their respective lannister twins show them the dark reality of those roles while brienne and sansa fight to remain hopeful.

famous lesbian rhaena targaryen was too gay with larissa velaryon so larissa got shipped off to marry the second son of tarth. she also had a favorite from the vale named alayne royce. she also had a red-haired, mail-wearing favorite named melony piper - kind of like an inverse of brienne and sansa visually. her true love, elissa farman, was from fair isle which is kind of like the west coast version of tarth; they also had the same age difference as brienne and sansa. rhaena was the eldest sister, like sansa, and dealt with a lot of loss in her life due in no small part to the strength of her claim making her a sought-after bride. i am aware this proves nothing but i do seriously think rhaena is the in-universe historic figure sansa is most like. gay sansa confirmed!!!!!!!! (jk... unless...)

and finally, i present what is either my most tinfoil hat theory or my oh-shit-i-cracked-the-code theory: brienne is foreshadowed to be the next bearer of the hound's helm so when GRRM said there's "something there" with sansa and the hound, he was actually talking about brienne and sansa :) if you enjoy the idea of sansa finding love and beauty in a brave, gentle, strong protector figure with low self-esteem whose face is covered in scars but you also (very reasonably!) hate the idea of her ending up with a man who held her at knifepoint and tried to SA her when she was a child, may i suggest hound!brienne x sansa? again, on an age appropriate timeline!

and if you're curious what i mean by hound!brienne foreshadowing and shattered shield references, i've included my running list of quotes, an analysis of those quotes, and a conclusion below the cut bc this post is long! TW for canon-typical references to sexual violence.

i think the references to brienne being "the hound with teats" and later references to the hound cutting off women's teats may connect to pretty meris, a sellsword with the windblown who is theorized to represent what GRRM had planned for brienne after the five year skip. quentyn notes that it's said that men cut meris' breasts off. if this hardened sellsword is some version of GRRM's original five year gap plan for brienne, who's to say that she won't be the hound instead of a sellsword in the forthcoming books? but that's assuming we'll get more books lmao.

the threat of SA is uncomfortably present in brienne's AFFC chapters. whether or not brienne experiences the types of gendered violence mentioned above, i think that the hound's helm would provide brienne with safety from that threat of SA on the road. for male characters, on the other hand, it may just draw more attention from people who wish to kill the hound for (mostly) rorge's crimes. there is a lot of talk across the books and across POVs about the hound being dead. you get tyrion describing him as dead after the blackwater when we know that's not true, septon meribald (which kinda sounds like meris now that i think of it 🤔) tells brienne that he is dead, jaime talks a lot with the freys and lannisters about killing the hound. there's also a lot of talk about the hound killing other people, namely brienne and sansa.

since it's all but confirmed that sandor clegane is now the gravedigger on the quiet isle rather than the hound, i think that "death" in the context of the hound is about letting your old self die so that the new you may be born. brienne needs to let her rigid ideals about what it means to be a knight die and sansa needs to let her rigid ideals about what it means to be a lady die. i think that lady's death at least partly symbolizes the fact that sansa can be a perfect lady and still face dire consequences through no fault of her own. and for brienne, she will most likely learn through lady stoneheart that not all oaths can be kept.

some people take the below quote as romantic foreshadowing for sansa and sandor. i take it to mean that to sansa, sandor and his cloak represent the opportunity she had to escape the life of a dutiful lady in a castle. perhaps brienne will wear the hound's helm when she rescues sansa, and sansa will give her the hound's cloak -- brienne's very own kingsguard cloak -- to complete the "uniform" of the hound.

i also want to offer my debunk to the idea that sansa keeping sandor's cloak is marriage imagery. sandor does not give his cloak to sansa, he does not put it over her shoulders as is done in a wedding ceremony. he leaves it on the ground because he does not want to be a member of the kingsguard anymore. sansa chooses to wrap herself in the kingsguard cloak. to me, this signifies her growing disillusionment in the systems set up to keep her safe and the autonomy she has to leave that system. perhaps she will be brave enough to ask brienne to take her away from the eyrie (or wherever she ends up) when they meet (again, assuming we get more books lmao).

i think it's relevant that sandor's place in the kingsguard - and by extension, the cloak as a symbol - had originally belonged to barristan selmy. i did a thread on this in relation to true knighthood and brienne if you're interested in reading more. sansa has a heroic deed in common with barristan selmy that also involves the hound in ACOK: like barristan, she saved dontos hollard from execution by a cruel king that she was sworn to. sansa was sworn to joffrey as his betrothed and barristan was sworn to aerys as a member of his kingsguard. i'm not even anti-sandor, i just don't think that his redemption arc needs to or should include the girl he held at knifepoint falling in romantic love with him.

to conclude with my point about characters having deep ties within the text not necessarily equaling romantic foreshadowing, i want to acknowledge that i don't think brienne and sansa need to have a romantic relationship for these textual connections to be meaningful. one way another i think these two are meant to be important to one another's stories. however i think that putting these two together romantically would be a beautiful way to tie together some key themes (gender, true knighthood, romanticism, idealism) and set up some really interesting character development.

however the romantic in me loves the idea of the aemon the dragonknight figure in sansa's life being a woman, specifically brienne who has sworn to defend her without even knowing her. they're both women, so there's nothing for brienne to gain from sansa's claim and nothing for sansa to gain from brienne's claim. brienne is the gentle, brave, and strong person ned wanted for sansa and catelyn sent her in sansa's direction and i think that's beautiful okay :')

[gojuo]

Top5 favorite Targaryens?

1. YOUNG GRIFF aka AEGON VI aka ELIA'S BABY aka THE SUN'S SON aka if you EVER all him fAegon im KILLING YOU come to take HIS THRONE again and HONOR his dornish LADY MOTHER that SAVED his life -> "Daenerys is Prince Rhaegar's sister, but I am Rhaegar's son. I am the only dragon you need." CUNTTTT SAY IT LIKE IT IS BABYY this line woulda killed and slayed and overshadowed every single character that's why d&d had to take him out of got his aura was too crazzzzzzyyyyy 🤧 and yes i know, he's going to die for his pasty white relatives' character arcs to conclude, but unlike gary jon and mary dany, aegon vi will go down in asoiaf history as the Last Targaryen King of Westeros. that's my baby yall

2. aegon ii -> this is recency bias i fully admit it but also this guy doesn't live in the asoiaf verse he lives in a shakespeare play and he's the best tragedy the best haunting the best dooming the best character arc of any of the targaryens that exist. there i said it.

3. BAELOR BREAKSPEAR my dornish DARLINGGGGG he would have saved house targaryen he would have done away with jaehaerys' doctrine or exceptionalism he would have ushered a new age of enlightenment in westeros as one would do when they're a 2nd gen half brown immigrant like that's exactly why george had to kill him omgggg ... dont ever forgive hbo and whoever runs the dunk and egg show for casting a white guy to play him they literally whitewashed him MY WORST NIGHTMARE dont let them get away with it !!!!!!!!

4. rhaella (daughter of shaera) -> my darling :(((((((( i would have saved her :(((((((( i have this hc that she named daenerys after the daenerys that married maron martell to honor elia bc i think she found a lot of solace and happiness in elia :( i think she viewed her as the daughter she never got to have :( she makes me so unbelievably sad i wish i could have saved her :(

5. naerys -> prettiest targ name dont even play with me. i just need to get this out of the way idgaf about "ship and let ship" rhetoric.. if you think she had an affair with aemon better yet if you even remotely think she was in any way or form in love with that man then fuck you don't ever speak on her name naerys wanted to be a SEPTA she was RELIGIOUS she never would have committed adultery first of all and second of all she hated aegon iv she never wanted to be with him she never wanted to be a wife or anyone's lover for that matter and that other scumbag of a brother everyone ships her with never did anything to save her from her abuser. all he ever did was sit on the sidelines and prey on her misery. winning a tournament means jack shit when she still got raped and humiliated all her life while that so called cuck of a dragonknight just fucking watched. fuck both aemon and aegon AND LEAVE NAERYS ALONE !!!!!!!!!!!! JUSTICE FOR MY GIRL 🗣

6. (i just had to mention her) helaena -> her spot moves up and down based on which version of her there is. show version? she'd be a little lower than no.6. book version? no.6. the helaena inside my head? she's on no.4. 🫡

[dwellordream]

This might be a lot but for the asoiaf ask game: 22, 24, 26, 27, 29, and 36!

24 - A ship that gives you the ick: I'm very open about Jon/Arya grossing me the fuck out because I have an older brother who I am very close with and who I enjoy judging our other family members with while standing on the sidelines. 26 - Favorite 'problematic' ship: Aemon/Naerys having a weird psychosexual self loathing dynamic neither is willing to actually act upon. 27 - Favorite canon ship: Asha/Qarl 29 - Fanfic trope or interpretation that you can't stand AND AU/trope you read every time: I dislike fanfics where Arya magically becomes the 'perfect demure lady' who is willing to abandon her interests and pop out 6 kids for her lordly husband and has zero issue with any of this. I'm a sucker for fem!AUs. 36 - Something you wish GRRM handled better: Let women be friends. Let women like Catelyn and Asha and Dany and Arianne have more equal female 'peers' around them.

[elegantwoes]

Its time we start propagating that third tier side characters like Ygritte and Val, and history figures like Lyanna, Alysanne, Rhaenys and Naerys are the ones being given relevance when we draw parallels between them and a POV main character, also called a central part of the books by the author himself, Sansa Stark. She was created first and is the princess archetype of the story so all the apparent things Sansa stans 'steal' from these characters 💀💀 belong to her first and foremost.

Technically Lyanna shouldn’t be included in there because she isn’t a history figure, but the rest I absolutely agree with you, especially on Naerys. Like Sansa is the only person who even mentions her for the first few books. And Sansa is the one who draws parallel with herself to Naerys and wants her husband to be like Aemon the dragon knight. Like George RR Martin is hammering down that Sansa is the character who has any form of narrative connection to Queen Naerys and the romantic pair Aemon/Naerys is (almost) exclusively tied to Sansa’s romantic storyline. Sansa also deals with an Aegon the unworthy in Joffrey. He even flat out says he wants to be like him and have multiple women:

("A king can have other women. Whores. My father did. One of the Aegons did too. The third one, or the fourth. He had lots of whores and lots of bastards." - Sansa III, A Storm of Swords.

Sansa says she’s Queen Naerys and Joffrey says he wants to be Aegon the unworthy. The only one missing in this equation is an Aemon the dragon knight figure. Now who could this person be? Well I can think of someone. A young man who frequently screamed he was Aemon the dragon knight in his childhood in Winterfell. We got three people saying they are a historical figure that conveniently are stuck in a love triangle. The fandom can deny this till their faces turn blue, but clearly Sansa/Jon are a Aemon/Naerys pair.

And even though George RR Martin is extremely obvious in his parallel still certain people try to take this and make it all about their favorite character and favorite ship. If there ever was case of ‘stealing’ a parallel and storyline then this falls squarely in that category, but antis will never admit to this, because if they did they would be admitting that Sansa has something desirable in their eyes that they want to give to their faves.

Naerys will never be remotely similar to either @rya or D@ny. At most D@ny looks like Naerys in terms in looks, GRRM flat out said that, but he also said that’s where the similarities stop. She may look like Naerys in appearance, but personality wise Naerys is described to be timid and Dany is fiercer. And @rya has zero association with Naerys.

The character who shares the most similarities with Naerys will always be Sansa. Another character who is like Naerys is Cersei, but in her case it’s foil. Cersei is her darker counterpart. She does the very thing Aegon accuses Naerys of (cheating and passing her child as his). Elia Martell is also very similar to Naerys (fragile health, reproductively abused, and humiliated by husband. Rhaegar literally does what Aegon IV wanted to do). Perhaps one could argue that Margaery has a small similarity to her too, since she compares herself to Naerys and Loras to Aemon, but that’s it. There are no other characters like Naerys. Especially not the characters whose fans desperately try to steal this parallel and storyline.