#anti jonsa

[silverflameataraxia]

Sansa and Jeyne are the only people to call Arya ugly.

Meanwhile Ned, Jon, Gendry, Lady Smallwood, and the kindly man have all commented on her beauty, but this fandom ignores it in favor of two middle-school-aged mean girls who have to put Arya down to feel good about themselves.

[ai-manre]

Wha-what now??? WHAT???! This is extremely stupid, why would Lyanna ask for that when her joining with Rhaegar has already fulfilled that pact? And why only first born daughter and not any daughter (hint Jon would always choose Arya). And why would such a stupid premise even exist.

Sorry but Jon*Sansa shippers have the absolute worst theories and takes.

[the-lake-lily-alchemist]

You really think Jon would he happy with a woman who truly enjoys setting people on fire? The son of “The man who passes the sentence should swing the sword” Ned Stark? The son of the man who outlawed flaying in the North? The man whose grandfather and uncle were burned to death? You truly think he would be happy with Daenerys who gets joy from brutally killing people?

Jonsas would be so fucking funny if they weren't so annoying. Over here getting outraged over a version of Daenerys they made up in their heads. Anon, genuinely, what the fuck are you even talking about? Acting like Dany waltzes around setting random civilians on fire and maniacally laughing like a Disney villain, while Jon is handing out flowers and kisses. Lmao.

Dany burnt slavers. Slavers. People who own other people. People who treat other people like cattle. What is so hard to understand?

Subjecting Dany to double standards and acting like what she does is unforgivable, when she's a symbol of hope and liberation for the oppressed (as a former bridal slave!!!), is so mind-numbing. I can't take you guys seriously.

[jackoshadows]

Wait what?! There's a theory that Sansa said 'you know nothing Jon Snow' in their childhood? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

This is an example of how these shippers just don't care about the context of that phrase and it's narrative importance to Jon Snow as a character and his arc of leadership. There's an actual reason for why Ygritte says that to Jon Snow! Why would Sansa say that to Jon?! What is happening?

It's like when they see quotes like 'You should look behind you, Lord Snow. The moon has kissed you and etched your shadow upon the ice twenty feet tall." or 'The white wolf raced through a black wood, beneath a pale cliff as tall as the sky. The moon ran with him' and it connects to the Moon symbology for both Dany and Arya and they want something similar for Sansa and they do this:

Like they just cut the sentence and took the first word of that sentence and attach it to the preceding sentence 🤣🤣🤣🤣

Also sun and son?! 🤣🤣🤣🤣

Like no need for meaning and sentence structure and all that - we will just take this word from here and put it together with that word from there and voila! Jonsa happens.

It's the same with 'You know Nothing'.

Let us read this paragraph both ways.

First, assuming this is the way it's meant to be read:

The Night's Watch takes no part. He closed his fist and opened it again. What you propose is nothing less than treason. He thought of Robb, with snowflakes melting in his hair. Kill the boy and let the man be born. He thought of Bran, clambering up a tower wall, agile as a monkey. Of Rickon's breathless laughter. Of Sansa, brushing out Lady's coat and singing to herself. You know nothing, Jon Snow. He thought of Arya, her hair as tangled as a bird's nest. I made him a warm cloak from the skins of the six whores who came with him to Winterfell … I want my bride back … I want my bride back … I want my bride back … "I think we had best change the plan," Jon Snow said. - Jon, ADwD

He nearly committed treason by running away to help for Robb, came back and decided that his place was at the Wall as a brother of the NW. Hence the first phrase.

Kill the boy and let the man be born - a man puts his duties above family and time and again Jon has chosen the Watch over his family - Bran, Rickon and Sansa.

You know nothing Jon Snow - If this phrase connects to any Stark it's Arya because Jon actually compares Ygritte to Arya several times, right from their tangled messy hair.

Secondly the phrase could play into his conflict of love or duty. It's a hard decision and one he cannot make easily. Is it right? Is it wrong? He doesn't know! What about his oaths and the threat from beyond the Wall? But then what about Arya being hunted by the likes of Ramsay Bolton? - 'You know nothing Jon Snow'

It's also the rule of three as he goes down the list - Jon chose NW over Robb, Jon chose the NW over family and now the third option - he chose Arya over the NW.

And Jonsa shippers know it makes no sense for their Jonsa nonsense when the whole paragraph is read hence why they selectively copy and paste only this sentence. Notice how it always starts at the end of Jon grouping Bran, Rickon and Sansa together:

Of Sansa, brushing out Lady's coat and singing to herself. You know nothing, Jon Snow.

And taken out of context it makes no sense - 'Of Sansa' - what does it mean 'Of Sansa'? Because there is preceding text there that they just omit because it doesn't go with their 'theories'.

If you are going to attach 'You know nothing Jon Snow' to Sansa, then you have to do it for Bran and Rickon as well. Like so:

He closed his fist and opened it again. What you propose is nothing less than treason. He thought of Robb, with snowflakes melting in his hair. Kill the boy and let the man be born. He thought of Bran, clambering up a tower wall, agile as a monkey. Of Rickon's breathless laughter. Of Sansa, brushing out Lady's coat and singing to herself. You know nothing, Jon Snow. He thought of Arya, her hair as tangled as a bird's nest. I made him a warm cloak from the skins of the six whores who came with him to Winterfell … I want my bride back … I want my bride back … I want my bride back … "I think we had best change the plan," Jon Snow said. - Jon, ADwD

So even reading it this way - 'You know nothing Jon Snow' is about family, about Bran, Rickon and Sansa.

In which case:

'kill the boy and let the man be born' - when he abandoned Robb.

'You know nothing Jon Snow' when he abandoned Ygritte and equating this to how he has always put the NW above family.

'I want my bride back...I want my bride back...I want my bride back' - the reference to Arya as Ramsay's bride, he snaps at this point and we get the amazing 'We had the best change the plan' line from Jon Snow.

Again rule of three: NW vs love - Jon chose NW, NW vs love - Jon chose NW, and finally NW vs love, Jon chose love. Because yes, he does decide differently between Ygritte and Arya.

So any which way one reads that paragraph, 'You know nothing' is either connected to Arya or it's connected to Bran, Rickon and Sansa. So no, it's not a 'Jonsa related quote' lol.

'You know nothing Jon Snow' is not some phrase just connected to Ygritte for shipping reasons. It has meaning and weight behind it, it's about Jon's decisions as a leader and it increasingly comes into play in ADwD because leadership is hard and Jon is always having to make choices, of making the unpopular but right decisions and is increasingly confronted by the knowledge that yes, he does have a lot to learn and needs the advice of wiser folks like Maester Aemon, Donal Noye, Qhorin Halfhand and Samwell Tarly.

[jonsaforeshadowing]

jonsa foreshadowing of the day: Ygritte being a stand-in for Sansa

[asongofstarkandtargaryen]

I really hate that Jon//sa shippers have equate Sansa's Alayne Stone arc to Jon Snow believing he's a bastard. Because those two characters experience totally different situations.

Even if Jon is at some point revealed to be a Targaryen prince ( which isn't confirmed for all we know he could still be a Targaryen bastard) it won't change the fact that for the first 17 years of his life he lived with the bastard stigma. Nor it would magically erase the feeling of not belonging he felt on his own home due to his status and the way his father's wife was treating him.

Meanwhile, Sansa has lived her whole life knowing she's a noble lady and even now she's posing as Alayne she still knows that she's a Stark of Winterfell. It's different to pretend to be a bastard than to actually believe your whole life to be one.

And since I usually focus my meta on Jon, let's focus this one on Sansa and describe how, in my humble opinion, I believe this comparison is unfair for her, too.

Sansa's biggest problem right now isn't that she pretends to be a bastard. Actually, that's hardly an issue for her considering that Petyr, who poses as her father, treat her like the lady of the house and allows her to have all the comforts ladies of noble heritage have. Her biggest problem is that she has to live with that predator, who half fantasises she's the daughter he could have with his beloved Cat and half views her as the idealised younger version of his beloved Cat. And honestly, living with a creepy pedo is one of the worst things a teenage kid could have to deal with.

Returning to her Alayne Stone persona, I do believe that Martin choose her to pretend to be a bastard for a reason. But that has nothing to do with Jon Snow or any other character fans ship her with. Shocking I know, but asoiaf female characters exist outside of your preferred pairings and some-most!- of their plotlines exist to cater themselves alone.

Sansa grew up with an narrow view of the world most Westerosi noble girls usually have. When Joffrey and Cersei showed their true colors and her father died, her fantasies were shattered but she continued to have a narrow view of the world as she was still a noble who right then was also a hostage. By making her pretend to be a bastard while she's in Eyrie, Martin has given her the opportunity to associate and talk with a larger variety of people than she could have as a noble lady. Also, by temporarily changing her status, she's given the opportunity to witness how things work for those who are less fortunate than those who are born nobles - even if this happens only on a theoretical level bc as I said above practically she's still enjoying the benefits of nobility. I do believe this experience of hers will enrich her view of the world and add even more layers to the already complex personality Martin has crafted for her. And I do believe it's a shame to diminish that for the sake of a crack ship.

[thelustybraavosimaid]

I think what disturbs me the most about anti-Dany and anti-Arya Jonsas is that they claim to be feminist. And yet, somehow, they constantly envision all the ways Dany is going to die by Jon's hands, how she's going to go mad. They go on about how Arya is too far gone to where she either fucks off across the seas or dies, inhabiting Nymeria, and becoming subservient to Sansa as a replacement Lady. Or even being her enforcer, simply killing any person Sansa points at.

They are so threatened by Arya being Jon's favourite person in the world and that Daenerys will eventually have a meaningful relationship with him that they want both out of the picture...

"People who hate Sansa are misogynists and hate feminine women!!" and yet all of your theories are centred around hating women and wanting them to die because they are not "girly enough" according to your standards...what part of this screams feminism at all?

[mutter-of-dragons]

It's interesting that they always miss the point. Also very big of them calling the fandom ships "weird,incestuous" when J0nsa would also count as such. Newsflash: this is not about Sansa being or needing to be "humbled". If only they knew half the shit their own fandom is up to...

[pessimisticpigeonsworld]

Mad Queen Misogyny

All the mad queen Dany takes, from both D&D and the audience, are just plain misogyny. They are literally just repeats of common misogynistic ideas. D&D have given a few reasons for why they wrote the mad queen ending for Dany, and all of them are the same old misogynistic tropes of fantasy and mythology.

The Mad Queen:

I'm going to start this off by going into how the mad queen trope itself is rooted in misogyny. This is one of the oldest tropes in fantasy/fairytales. Whether it's Snow White's evil step mother or the Queen of Hearts, literature is riddled with mad queens.

The idea of the mad queen is informed by the desires of men to keep women out of power. Yes there are historical women who were horrible people and unstable when in power. However, those examples are not enough to justify the amount of times the trope occurs, especially since some of the examples occur after many stories have already been written (ie, Mary I and medieval fairytales). These fictional women were written as cautionary tales of what happens when a woman is placed in power.

By writing the mad queen Dany arc in GOT, D&D are perpetuating an old trope rather than "subverting" anything as they claim. The most powerful woman in the world turning out to be a war mongering and mass murdering tyrant isn't subversive in any way. The only reason it was surprising was because it came out of nowhere narratively.

ASOIAF fans who constantly try to justify this turn for Dany's book character are attempting to do the same thing D&D did. They want to employ an ancient trope to justify their dislike for her in name of being "subversive".

The Violent Woman:

A trope that stretches back all the way to the Ancient Greeks is that of the angry, homicidal woman in power. From Hera to Medea, the myths are full of women who commit atrocities simply because of anger. This trope isn't just about avenging a slight or retribution on the guilty; it's about a woman taking out her anger on innocent parties.

Daenerys has fallen into the role of the avenger many times throughout both the show and and book. She killed Mirri Maz Duur for the murder of her son and husband. She killed the Undying for attempting to trap/kill her. She kills Kraznys mo Nakloz and many other slavers for the atrocities they commit constantly on the people they enslaved.

In the show, she imprisoned Xaro Xhoan Daxos and Doreah in a vault for killing Irri and helping the warlocks steal her children. She killed the Khals who threatened to rape her. She kills the Tarleys for rebelling against the Tyrells, thus getting them killed, and refusing to bend the knee.

Every time Dany killed up until season eight, it was purely because those she killed harmed her or her allies/children. That is why none of her past kills justify her burning KL. The people of KL did nothing to her; it's not an established part of her character to harm innocents out of anger. She even outright condemns the killing of innocents in earlier seasons.

The inconsistencies show how D&D chose to blatantly ignore the complexities of Dany's character in favor of a sexist trope. They perpetuated the idea that a woman in power who is angered will ultimately commit injustice and atrocities.

Dany antis in the ASOIAF fandom are no different from D&D. A common argument used by Dany and Targaryen antis is that they are bound to be corrupt and tyrannical because they have dragons. Essentially saying that Dany was doomed to be the villain the moment she hatched her children.

They point to her dragons' existence and her conquest in Essos as reasons for her "villain arc", despite the fact that none of her actions reflect the things they claim. Dany is simply being condemned for being a woman with power; it's expected of her to be a tyrant for those reasons alone.

The Woman Scorned:

This reasoning given by D&D in a behind the episode interview is probably the excuse that I hate the most. They said that one of the reasons for Dany's descent into madness was because Jon Snow refused to kiss her back once he found out they were aunt and nephew. This is an insanely misogynistic trope.

Used time and again by writers (mostly male), this trope is about a woman who becomes an antagonist due to rejection, unrequited love, or betrayal from a lover. In the case of Dany and GOT, it's Jon refusing to continue their romantic relationship.

For some reason, this is seen as a breaking point for Dany. A woman who has endured poverty, homelessness, sexual slavery, a traumatic miscarriage and death of a spouse/protector, and the stresses of war was broken by a man refusing to kiss her. Doesn't that sound fucking stupid? Well that's because it is.

Dany has never felt entitled to people's love (with the exception of shitty writing from D&D) let alone someone's sexual/romantic reciprocation. It's out of character and flat out insulting to women to believe that is enough to make Dany into a mass murdering tyrant.

Once again, there are members of the fandom who espouse this reasoning into their own theories and metas. Jonsas especially are guilty of this; some claiming that Jon's rejection of Dany in favor of Sansa will be a catalyst for the "mad queen".

An offshoot of this thinking, is the idea that Dany went/will go mad because she was rejected by the realm.

In the show, the Northmen are dismissive or outright hostile to Dany when she arrives (even after she saves them). Due to this rejection by the Westerosi people, Dany decides "let it be fear" and chooses to burn KL to the ground.

Once again, this idea isn't grounded in her past actions at all. Dany has always known she needs to earn people's love and respect as a ruler, why should she change her mind the moment she steps onto Westerosi soil? The answer is simple: she's a woman, so she can't possibly be able to deal with rejection.

Fans theorize constantly that Dany is going to go mad and destroy KL and Westeros because the people will definitely reject her in favor of Young Griff/Jon Snow/any other king they can think of. This theory is simply clinging to misogynistic ideas about women and it's disgusting in every iteration (it also dismisses the fact that there are people in Westeros excited about the idea of Dany and her dragons in the books but that's a different post).

The Woman Bereft:

This argument is probably the least outright in its misogyny. The idea that a woman who has lost everything will lose her mind isn't a new one and it can be played in a non-sexist way. However, GOT played it completely in the sexist roots of the trope.

Throughout seasons seven and eight, Dany loses basically everything. All but one of her children, her closest advisor and best friend Missandei, Ser Jorah, a massive chunk of her army, her other advisors, most of her allies, and is rejected by Westeros and Jon. That's a lot of loss to endure.

However, Dany has endured severe loss before and never reacted by murdering a city full of innocents. Again, this decision and descent isn't backed up by anything else in her storyline.

The sexism of this idea, that loss produces mad women, is that it's rarely applied to men in the same situations. For example: Tyrion lost everything he cared about, yet he's never written by D&D to be in danger of becoming a mass murderer. He even outright says he wishes he'd poisoned the whole court, but is never portrayed as a mad man by D&D or fans.

Dany is expected to go insane after enduring loss because she's a woman. She's perceived as being fundamentally weaker, mentally as well as physically, so she must be more vulnerable to madness than the male characters.

The Foreign Seductress:

The idea of the foreign seductress is a xenophobic and racist stereotype. For Dany, her antis use the instances of her exercising sexual autonomy and her life in Essos as fodder for this disparaging trope.

In the books and the show, Dany pursues sexual and romantic relationships outside of marriage. This is something that doesn't fall in line with the medieval setting of the world. In Westeros and Essos, it's common for men to do that, but not women, due to systematic misogyny. Because of this, Dany's antis often feel free to argue that because she doesn't act "pure", she is wrong and evil. Dany's bound to become a villain because she isn't a chaste and "good" woman.

In the same way, Dany is painted as wrong for wanting to take her family's throne purely because she wasn't raised in Westeros. She's perceived as a foreign invader by both her antis and D&D.

D&D wrote many scenes of outright xenophobia from the Northmen, Sansa, and Arya towards Dany and her forces without ever condemning those ideas. In fact, they justify them by writing the mad queen ending. The fact that Dany isn't "one of them" is used as an excuse for her descent.

Dany antis also employ this rhetoric, especially when people compare Dany's conquest for the IT to the Starks' desire to retake Winterfell. It's good for the Starks to want to retake their throne because they were raised in Winterfell, but Dany has no right to her ancestral home because she wasn't raised in Westeros.

However, this idea is never applied to Young Griff, who was also not raised in Westeros. Despite this, people will talk about how excited they are for his story and how sad it is that he's totally going to be murdered by his evil aunt. Once again a double standard is applied to Dany.

All this is because Dany is a woman who refuses to conform to patriarchal standards and was raised in a foreign country.

Never Good Enough:

Dany antis and D&D thrive on applying a different set of standards to Dany than other characters. They do this an a way that's reminiscent of the double standards set for women even today.

No matter what Dany does, it's never good enough for them. She dealt with Viserys and his death in the wrong way. She didn't protect her people in the right way. She tried to abolish slavery in the wrong way. She saved the goddamn world wrong. Like nothing Dany does is right in their eyes.

In their minds, Dany should've died in AGOT being a perfectly passive woman. She refused to submit to those (men) around her, and for that they punish her.

She's wrong for fighting the slavers, she's wrong for trying to avenge murdered children, she's evil for killing to protect herself. D&D used each of her actions throughout the show that they seemed too aggressive as justification for what they wrote. Dany's antis do the exact same thing in their theories.

The mad queen Dany theory is rooted completely in misogyny. It has no true justification in the narrative and every argument conjured up is just as sexist as the trope they want to perpetuate.

[iheartsw]

what are they smoking?

[jacaerys-velaryon]

Sansa did what? Are they reading asoiaf? Can someone give me a hint when she was “bewitching” Jon with songs?

[silverflameataraxia]

I don't care if people ship Jonsa, but stop stealing content from Jonrya and somehow making it about Sansa when it's actually about Arya. And stop lying about Jon and Sansa's importance to each other.

Jon and Sansa rarely think about one another. Sansa thinks about Jon one time while pretending to be a bastard, and that was only after someone else brought him up. And that was the first time she thought about him since AGoT.

Jon, on the other hand, hardly thinks about Sansa either. It's Arya that he misses even more than Robb, and Arya who misses Jon the most out of all her siblings.

Jon compares Ygritte to Arya, not Sansa.

Jon wants to kill Ramsay for being betrothed to Arya, not Sansa.

Jon sends Mance to find the grey girl on a dying horse which was supposed to be Arya, not Sansa.

Jon was willing to forsake his vows to the Night's Watch for Arya, not Sansa.

Jon's favorite person in the world is Arya, and Arya's favorite person is Jon.

[ai-manre]

❌ Jon and Sansa look like NedCat and therefore they will recreate NedCat romance:

- boring

- uninspired

- doesn't work

- Catelyn emotionally abused Jon

- what's the point of recreating something which already worked successfully the first time around?

✅ Jon and Daenerys look like genderbent Rhaelya and they will recreate Rhaelya romance:

- grand

- inspiring

- works thematically

- gives Jon a connection to his own parents

- becomes a positive parallel to Rhaelya's love. Aka a love that triggered a war vs a love that will save the world from extinction. They will succeed where their predecessors failed

- blue rose has featured as a motif in both Rhaelya and Jonerys in book canon

[the-lake-lily-alchemist]

A certain part of the fandom always seems to ignore the fact that girls like Sansa simply aren't Jon's type. She still very much is the damsel in the tower, brushing her hair and yearning to be rescued. Jon has had explicit romantic feelings for two young women in canon: Ygritte and Val. Both are capable fighters, both have fought and killed, and both are pragmatic, grounded in reality, and Jon's status as a bastard means nothing to them. (Also, he compared both those young women to Arya in his mind, NOT the other sister!) Jon and Sansa shared a father and they both grew up in Winterfell. Other than that, they have nothing in common.

You're very right, anon. Unfortunately, Jon is one of the most mischaracterized characters in the fandom, and I fail to see how this will change any time soon. It's much easier to read bite-sized meta breakdowns of his character rather than spend time reading all his 42 chapters and forming opinions and understandings of your own, after all.

[jackoshadows]

The most amazing thing about Jonsa shippers is how confidently they just assert that all their fanon, fanfiction and headcanons actually happened in the books and at a certain point everyone else pointing out how this is untrue just give up. There's no arguing against ignorance.

Following up on this post, the same person then goes on with more fanfiction against two redditors trying to engage with them on actual book canon lol.

One thing I have noticed is that when you get into a discussion with Jonsa/Sansa stans, 90% of the time, instead of actually engaging with you, they will link to a relentlessly long essay full of nonsense to support their argument. That's because they have not actually read the books - everything they write is regurgitated from these idiotic metas and so they just link to it thinking that it will convince us or change our minds.

They know they can't argue against walls of book text that disproves the outright fallacious nonsense they put forth as canon and immediately go " Well, I don't have the time, there are other expert, smart Jonsas who have analyzed all this and say that Jonsa is a thing in the books so I trust them. The end.' Mind closed. And that's the problem with debating with Jonsa shippers - you will never change their minds because they are not open to changing their minds!

Like there are folks in there telling them that Alys looks like Arya and that's why Melisandre mistakes one for the other. But no, here have this big essay with maps and such filled to the brim with pure nonsense on why Sansa is the 'girl in grey'....

EVERYTHING in that reply is the same old tired nonsense again and again and again:

Sansa was hiding in the Vale as Petyr’s bastard and modeled her identity as Alayne basically after Jon.

NO SHE DIDN'T. It's right there in the text after Myranda Royce brings Jon up and Sansa says that she hadn't thought of Jon in ages. All the while Sansa is thinking of her family and where she can flee to - she even thinks of Tyrion as an option, but never Jon. She is playing a pretend bastard and never once thinks of Jon. This idea that she modeled Alayne after Jon is contradicted by the text but they think repeating it enough times will make it canon or something.

They’re both honorable and compassionate people. They’re both arguably spoiled.

Sansa is 'honorable and compassionate'? Sansa? Compassionate?

Poor Mycah must have missed out on that. It's not Arya that's risking everything to save a butcher's boy who is honorable and compassionate. It's not Bran standing up for Hodor against the Frey boys who is compassionate and honorable. Oh no, that's Sansa!

And sorry but there is no comparison here to Jon and Sansa being spoiled. None. Jon had a chip on his shoulder from being a bastard. Donal Noye sets him straight, he learns, acknowledges his privilege and APOLOGIZES.

I am still waiting on Sansa to atleast reflect in her thoughts about how she treated Arya - but no, Sansa is still blaming Arya for Lady! Her father had to lose his head before Sansa even figures out that these cartoonishly evil characters were actually evil while betraying her family to become queen. No introspection, no growth, none.

The absolute worst part of this ship is all these trash parallels between the two characters when they couldn't be any more different to each other.

He (Jon) thinks of her as he’s dying.

WTF!! NO, JON DOES NOT THINK OF SANSA AS HE'S DYING!

As for Jon’s tastes, Jon is also a sheltered teenage boy who had never had a romantic relationship with anyone before meeting Ygritte.

Jon's tastes don't matter because he was a sheltered boy! You just wait he will totally change once he meets Sansa!

especially because there is no chance in Hell that with Jon’s station and lowly birth he could even marry a lady of good standing to begin with.

Totally! He only dislikes ladies like Catelyn and Sansa because he could never hope to marry a 'lady of good standing' and not because of the emotional abuse and bigotry.

And yet — when Jon dreams, he doesn’t dream of these warrior women. He dreams of having a traditional wife who will give him sons and rule Winterfell with him.

WTF! HOW IS VAL A TRADITIONAL WIFE?! Did I miss something? Does he dream of starting a family with someone else?

There’s also other things too; like Jon conflating red headed characters with Ygritte (right after he thinks of Sansa singing and brushing out Lady’s coat, he thinks of Ygritte’s words, he thinks Melisandre is Ygritte at first, his favorite part about Ygritte was her pretty red hair), or him calling Sansa radiant and immediately despising Joffery.

He compares Ygitte and Melisandre because Mel has red hair and is called the red priestess for a reason!! At no point does he conflate Sansa with Ygritte or Melisandre. Sansa has auburn hair like Robb and Bran and Rickon.

And I already made a post about this, but you know nothing Jon Snow is either about Arya or about Bran, Rickon and Sansa. So no, it's not specifically about Sansa - more Jonsa fanfiction.

And so, so tired of this Jon is jealous of Joffrey over Sansa nonsense when Jon as a typical male teenager is annoyed that Joffrey is taller than him and Robb despite them being older and because Jon has more house loyalty than Sansa he dislikes Joffrey for his derisive attitude towards Winterfell.

Especially annoying that as the redditor replying to them points out that ALL the Stark kids start out as naive dreamers! Arya and Bran are ten times more honorable and compassionate than Sansa! Arya had to pretend to be shit as well, for longer than Jon and Sansa! Arya almost loses herself - only Needle is preventing that! Bran has to stop and prevent himself from warging Hodor and retaining his humanity. Arya, Bran, Rickon ALL WANT TO RETURN TO WINTERFELL! And yes once they get older, these kids will also want to name their future children after their ancestors!! What's so unique about any of this shit to Jon and Sansa?!

But these shippers will basically downplay all these themes for the rest of the Starks and then innocently ask 'why does Jonsa get so much hate?' 🥺👉 👈

You’re entitled to your opinions. But I didn’t come here to debate

I didn't come here to debate while writing a whole fanfiction essay about Jonsa! There will be no more comments from them.

[jonsaforeshadowing]

jonsa foreshadowing of the day: Sam and Satin are BOTH stand-ins for Sansa