#anti got

[niniane17]

I'd say it's a fair take, and I would agree, although I'm not sure how compatible this is with consuming the series, which, as a whole, is all about noble people squabbling over power. Also the show had its own idea on this, with the infamous line "maybe the best ruler is the one who doesn't want to rule", and...let's just say I don't find it very credible, especially if you know its context.

But what I truly don't like is people holding characters to different standards, with one character having to conform to 21st century ideas of morality and another being free to act as a medieval ruler.

I realized that anti Got Season 8 posting in late 2024 is a bit boomerish, but screw that it's my blog and there's no law stating that I can't post about That Series again.

I've stumbled across an old anti-Daenerys post written by a Sansa fan some months after the show ended and...oh my God. I had nearly forgotten just how batshit crazy those takes are.

Dany is a colonialist. Dany is a white supremacist. If you like her you are both. Martin is just pretending to write her as a hero, in the end he will reveal she was evil all along and freeing slaves was a secret code for enslaving people. Valyria is evil and the Targaryens are evil. Westeros is simultaneously the ancient Americas and Medieval Europe. Essos is Europe but also the Oppressed Middle East.

Sansa is the true anti colonialist hero. Sansa is the true opprossed woman. If you don't support her you are an oppressor and possibly a rapist yourself. The North is good and the Starks are good. When Arya sails West of Westeros sporting the North's banner, she is not partaking in colonialism, in fact, she will be the anti Christopher Columbus. How do we know that? Because she's a Stark, the Starks are good...

It's maddening. No wonder Daenerys fans are driven into a frenzy. It's not irrationality, it's just natural frustration at constantly being held to double standards and fighting some crazy takes.

Now, treating a fantasy tv show fandom as anti-colonial activism is bad enough, but it's clear to me that at least some of these takes are motivated by the fact they see Sansa as the underdog, mistreated by both the characters and sometimes even the narrative.

And here's where things get weird.

I've said many times that I didn't become a full Dany fan until she was heavily mistreated by the narrative, and I'm definitely not alone in this. Back in the day, many people who previously didn't care one bit for Daenerys suddenly ended up defending her or even stanning her.

Like, of course if somebody wants to root for the underdog, the first thing to do is rooting for the actual underdog. Season 8's underdog was Daenerys. Everyone and everything was deadly set against her from the moment she arrived in Winterfell. They constantly disrespected her, undercut her efforts, killed off or villainized her allies, snobbed her non-traditional upbringing, conspired behind her back. And all the while they always asked asked asked for more, nothing she was giving was enough.

In contrast, the Starks' and the North's actions were constantly justified or presented as good, even betrayal (which is a very huge deal in Westeros) or, in one instance, outright racism by the Northern people -this time fully intended by the production, rather than an unintentional outcome of some poor behind-the-scene choices.

At the end, Season 8's Starks were absolute gods who could do no wrong and were always in the right no matter what they did -except their bastard son, who was contaminated by the evil people's blood and has to symbolically kill that part of himself forever.

Well, guess what, people didn't like that. But the newfound Dany fans were perfectly consistent: they wanted the underdog to win, to overcome her hurdles, internal or external, and be happy at the end. If the underdog is Dany, well, then it's time for Dany to win.

It's Sansa stans that see everything in terms of How This Affects My Fave and are willing to bend over the narrative to get what they want. They are perfectly happy with a biased narrative and double standards, they just want it to be biased towards Sansa, and everything is fair game to them, including real life politics and vocabulary, with some hilarious results. For example: Sansa as the voice of the Oppressed Minorities is...a take, to say the least. Her world doesn't even have a prejudice against red hair, as it would have in real life.

And guess what else, this kind of Protagonist-Centered Morality is very similar to the one used by real life colonizers, especially in their "explorations". Not that it matters because this isn't a post-colonial story and it never will be. It's a story about a messed up Fantasy Medieval/Early Renassaince World with Dragons, heavily influenced by various periods of European history. The only vaguely post-colonial element are maybe the zombies-as-slaves metaphor, and I think it's more due to the fact that Martin was probably inspired by old horror Movies pre-dating the Romero ones. And who is liberating slaves in his story, again?

Anyway. 2019-2020 was a really weird time to be a Dany fan, and in hindsight it was crazy how much shit there was around a fantasy series with dragons. Surely five years later people are a little more normal, right? Right?

[catholicat]

george martin should be kinder with fanfic writers considering the fact that he gives his works to be adapted by people who do a worse job at writing his characters than his own fans

[alwaysdaenerys]

I just feel bad for show-only fans of Game of Thrones and House of the Dragon sometimes, you know? Because the way that GOT ended, and the way HOTD is going to end, it's...bleak. All of the characters in the Dance of the Dragon saga are doomed; no one we truly love and care about is going to make it through, guys. It's horrible, actually. There is no victor--if that's even what we need anyway--and the status quo remains, crushing everyone beneath it's enormous, never-ending wheel: it's grim-dark and heartbreaking.

ASOIAF was supposed to be GRRM's response to that tragedy. A woman's family is usurped, she will take back what is hers, and achieve what her ancestor could not. But sadly, Game of Thrones is not ASOIAF and if you only watch the shows, you are going to see Rhaenyra go the same way as Daenerys, murdered and once again usurped. George wrote Rhaenyra as a tragic character, there is no doubt, but Daenerys is NOT SUPPOSED TO BE. She is meant change the status quo that tramples the smallfolk/women/cripples/ bastards/and broken things/etc. She is meant to live on and plants trees.

If you only watch the shows, all hope is lost. Nothing is solved. Nothing can truly be achieved. Nothing has changed. The wheel continues to turn. My heart aches to think that you will see the parallels and you'll wonder: is this the same exact thing as before? Did we learn anything?

I just hope book fans can get some relief, you know? Because George's ending absolutely cannot leave us without something to look forward to, without something to be proud of. He said bittersweet: not happy, not tragic, not hopeless. What future can the characters of GOT look forward to with an ending like that?

The Dance of the Dragons is the tragic tale, because ASOIAF is the dream of spring.

[rainhadaenerys]

Two of the many reasons I hate House of the Dragon:

-- They're doubling down on GOT's vitriol that "the best ruler is the one that doesn't want to rule" that they used to vilify Dany in the end.

-- They made Alicent and Rhaenyra into these peace-loving characters, and gave many of Dany's peace-loving qualities to them. Which led to a bunch of show-watchers (and plenty of book readers that don't know the books well) to believe that Rhaenyra and Alicent are better queens/more peaceful/more reasonable than Dany. These fans end up loving Rhaenyra and Alicent while hating Dany, even though the reasons they love show!Rhaenyra and show!Alicent are precisely the qualities that the showrunners stole from book!Dany and gave to them.

[asongofstarkandtargaryen]

Remember how horrible was Dany's season 2 arc?

They invented a whole subplot of her handmaiden betraying( when Doreah in the books died in the desert with Dany holding her hand) instead of showing us more of her actual second book arc.

They also killed more of her Dothraki followers ( who are still alive in the books) to have her further isolated. And the HotU was such a mess. It's one of the highlights of the second book ( not only for Dany's storyline, in general) and they messed it up so badly.

[ai-manre]

GOT really argued "first she came for the slavers 😔 and we did nothing" as if that isn't the same as "first they came for the Nazis and we did nothing"

[unknown-terrain]

So I was reminded that today is the 5th anniversary of the universally hated Game of Thrones series finale and here's a friendly reminder that the only good thing to come out of that mess was from the brilliant Ramin Djawadi who in the end gave us J/B shippers this amazing gift. I am eternally grateful to him for this.

[whitedragonwolf4961]

The signs were there…

The signs were there all along… that the fucking hacks were ruining this beautiful, amazing, complex character long before the shit season. I know those dumb as shit incompetent hacks and some of the cast of GoT (do they actually believe that shit or were they toeing the line?) in their condescending manner told us that the “signs” were there all along about Dany “going mad”. They are right but not for the reasons they think they are. The signs were there… that D&D were ruining Dany’s character long before that putrid shitshow that was Season 8. When you reread the books and remember or rewatch the show, you can see. As early as S1, they were giving many of Dany’s strong or intelligent or kind and merciful moments to the males around her. It was her who took Viserys’s horse away from him to show how she has grown stronger and is no longer as afraid of him as she once was. In the show they gave it to Rhakaro. In S2 they had Jorah tell Dany she must be her people’s strength and then Dany told Jorah “as you are mine”. Contrast that where in the books Dany told herself she must be her people’s strength, including Jorah. And they gave Dany’s meeting with Quaithe to freaking Jorah! There is the fact that the hacks couldn’t have women talking for two minutes without insulting each other (directly or subtly). And then they gave her intelligent strategies to her male advisers in S3 and 4. And of course had her rely on the incompetence dumbass Show Tyrion for strategy completely in S7, ignoring the advice of her allies (who were all females). And to make her look worse, they had Barristan tell her “it’s better to answer injustice with mercy” when she had those masters crucified for what they did to the children (and of course add “nice and innocent slavers”). No surprise to find out that they omitted that Dany specifically ordered them to give up their leaders aka the ones who obviously ordered it, in the books. And how Dany is told by her advisers to be more violent and ruthless, instead of them “tempering her worst impulses” (I fucking hate that sexist fucking line). Dany is the one who wants to be as merciful and nonviolent as possible. A little off topic, I think Dany needs to become more ruthless. I think GRRM was trying to show that while it shows Dany’s good heart that she tried to be compromising, you cannot compromise with slavers. If she wants to utterly destroy slavery she will need to be more ruthless and that is not a bad thing at all.

Anyway, besides giving most of Dany’s best moments to the males around her, the fucking hacks were changing things when they still followed the books (for a given definition of “follow”) as well as adding ridiculous crap. It’s most blatant in her S2 storyline. The Thirteen immediately invite Dany into Qarth because they sought her out. But the hacks had Dany be condescendingly talked to by the show only Spice King and refused entry. So they could have her shout “We will lay waste to armies and burn cities to the ground”. I know a lot of dumb idiots will use that line as “proof” but it was a stupid addition by the two hacks so they could make Dany look bad. And then they had Dany’s Dothraki people slaughtered. They had Irri murdered. They took away Dany’s female companionship (until Missandei). And speaking of Irri, who killed her? Doreah! Yeah! They had Doreah out of literally nowhere with zero explanation or reason betray Dany and murder Irri (like I said, Dumb&Dumber can’t stand female friendships. They think women are only good for insulting and killing each other). Looks like the later seasons weren’t the start of them inventing stupid plot points out of nowhere. And I guess they wanted to make Dany look cruel for locking Doreah and Xaro in the vault. Know what she does to them in the books? Nothing. Well not exactly nothing. Doreah dies in the Red Waste and Dany holds her and gives her water from her own waterskin and refuses to move until Doreah has passed. And Xaro is still alive in the books. Because Xaro and Pree never stole her dragons in the books (another stupid show invention). And then later, as I previously mentioned, they invented “innocent slave masters” that Dany crucified like Hizdahr’s daddy. Nothing like that is brought up in the books. Oh, and they decided to kill off Ser Barristan in S5! Even though Barristan is alive and well and gladly serving Dany in the books and knowing she’s nothing like her father. Which the actor pointed out. And it only made those scumbags want to do it even more. And then after his (very stupid) death, Dany burns a slave master. And that stupid awful behind the scenes book after the shit season, Fire Cannot Kill a Dragon has that moron Cogman bring that up about how Dany didn’t care if he was innocent or not (they really had a thing about “innocent slave masters”). None of that crap ever happens in the books.

They also changed small but important parts. Never let Dany have a crown like I mentioned. They also had Dany sit on top of the stairs in Mereen, when she insists on sitting at the bottom on a simple bench because she wants to be on an equal level with her people. Heck an illustrator had to be corrected by GRRM when she was showing that (does anyone have a picture or article about that?). They also never really showed her bond with her other dragons. In the books she loves and pays attention to all of them, in particular Viserion who always wants to be petted by her. In the show, she only really pays attention to Drogon mostly. Rhaegal and Viserion were reduced to “the two smaller different colored dragons” (to be stupidly killed off later on in stupid asinine ways). And Dany’s relationship with Daario is changed. Daario is made to be the one in love and Dany “feels nothing” when she ends their relationship. In the books Dany has a huge crush on Daario but Daario only really wants her for her crown and title, not the girl she is. And Dany knows this. And Jorah is changed into this super nice guy who is always giving her wisdom instead of this creep who is trying to isolate her from other men so she’ll only rely on him.

And when they stopped following the books? Well they really weren’t bothering to hide it much anymore. In S6, they have that idiot Show Tyrion talk about how Dany was “wrong” for not building a new system (and Tyrion is portrayed as smart for not wanting to change the way of the world even though that’s what Dany wants to do). So Tyrion wants slavery to continue for seven years (which the idiot says is a “short time”). And most disgustingly, they had him tell Missandei and Gray Worm, who were slaves their whole lives, that he now “knows the horrors of it”. A white rich guy telling two people of color that he knows about slavery… (am I looking at it too much?) Anyway, when that predictably backfires (why the hell were they always having people talk about how smart Tyrion is and Dany needs to listen to him when all he’s ever done is fail?) and Dany returns to Mereen, they have Dany talk about “returning cities to the dirt” so Tyrion can give her a more merciful strategy. And then in S7… have her rely only on Tyrion and his stupid plans. And if she dared to want to just end it quickly, they told her she would be just like her father. They even had that dumb weak idiot Show Jon say that. Book Jon would bitch slap that idiot. Book Jon wants to bring destruction to House Lannister.

Speaking of which… that scene where she meets Jon. It was funny how Dany had all her many titles spoken by Missandei when all Davos said about Jon is “He’s King in the North”, right? Well… I think those hacks wanted Show Jon to be this humble “noble king” while Dany is this “arrogant Queen with all these titles”. And they also want Dany to come as arrogant and entitled so they have her talk about all the shit she went through (like getting raped and betrayed and sold to sexual slavery) and how faith in herself kept her going. Now to the sane layman, that is a strong woman giving herself credit for believing in herself and using her strength to forge something better for herself. But to Dumb&Dumber that is an arrogant and selfish woman not crediting her abusers for her strength. Gosh I loathe Show Sansa but NO ONE deserves to be raped and to have her credit her rapist for her strength is just… wrong. In every way possible.

Then there was that crap with the Tarlys. Those idiots wanted us to see Dany as doing something evil and wrong. Actually they wanted us to see that whole battle as “wrong”. Because they have that tragic music playing and Tyrion looking sadly. The same guy who watched thousands burn in wildfire that he himself laid out. Where was the sad music then? Anyway Dany does what literally not just every King and Queen does but what ever highborn period does after defeating the enemy. She offers them the choice to bend the knee and live and keep their lands. Or death. Same choice Robert Baratheon offered Balon Greyjoy. Same choice the old Stark kings offered their rivals. The two Tarlys choose death so Dany executed them despite multiple chances. And immediately Varys starts comparing her to her father. Except her father (and people like Ramsay Snow, Tywin Lannister, Gregor Clegane, and Euron Greyjoy) wouldn’t have given multiple chances. They would have given no offers. Just murdered them all (Ramsay, Gregor, and Euron simply for their sadistic pleasure). And then they had Jon look uncomfortable when Dany said she had fewer enemies. Which is stupid. Jon has fought battles before. He’s killed thousands to take Winterfell back as Dany herself reminds him.

And they even had it said that Aegon the Conqueror started “the wheel” and got along far with fear. Except… yes Aegon was ruthless when he had to be, but as King he unified a country that was divided and plagued by constant conflicts. He gave them peace and prosperity. And he and his wives were the first to get rid of some unsavory practices. The hacks were determined to have us think that all Targaryens were “mad tyrants”. Idiots would have us think the Starks were democratically chosen leaders instead of ruthless warlords who conquered the North. They never understood the story or the characters. And the signs were there all along that they were ruining and destroying one of the greatest female characters in fictional history.

Longest post I ever wrote! I didn’t cover S8 because nothing needs to be said about that putrid shitshow. But let me end with this. I fully believe that not only will GRRM finish the books… he will give Dany a great and satisfying ending. I hope she becomes Queen but I will perfectly settle for her being alive and well. I have every confidence that she will not get that disgusting show ending. That was a shitty sexist plot point done purely for shock value. But… I guess the signs were there that those hacks never understood or respected Dany. But there are signs that George has great things planned for our beloved Dany. And then that is how she will be remembered. I’m gonna keep believing and hoping. Someone has to, and I will happily be that person. PS: Can people please tell me what they think of all this? Any questions? I’ll happily answer! And reblogs are perfectly acceptable and encouraged! I’d love to hear your thoughts and you can add anything you want.

[jeyneofpoole]

bad show eppysode simulator. cersei has three glasses of wine in her hand and orange hair. she is making out sloppy-style with a floor length gilded mirror but oh no! jaime is not there! where is jaime? he’s actually staring soulfully into brienne’s eyes as she delivers a heartfelt monologue about being ugly (she is gwendoline christie.) across the narrow sea missandei is curling dany’s hair with a revlon styling brush it’s very chic very medieval. jorah is jacking off in the corner they just sort of ignore him. in the north theon and sansa are running through the woods to escape evil gay iwan rheon and theon looks sooooo tortured (they dunked alfie allen in olive oil and dressed him in an ascot made out of dryer lint.) loras gets hatecrimed so hard that he blows up and is never mentioned again. in the background of some shots you can see peter dinklage tying a noose. at the very end kit harington turns to the camera and says well we sure had a game of thrones! and they they all stand in a line and kill themselves. easily television!

[a-chaotic-dumbass]

i need to hold some of these ppl's hands when i say this but thinking that nothing what happened in s8 will happen in the books is lethal levels of copium

[mutter-of-dragons]

It's interesting that they always miss the point. Also very big of them calling the fandom ships "weird,incestuous" when J0nsa would also count as such. Newsflash: this is not about Sansa being or needing to be "humbled". If only they knew half the shit their own fandom is up to...

[jon-quil]

the line that bothers me the most on the show is “i was awful admit it” from sansa to jon because it totally changes the perspective of their childhood like my girl taught him to compliment girl’s names; jon thinks fondly of how sansa would say that morning snow beyond the wall would be an enchantment and how tears would fill her eyes at the wonder of it, jon is the only one who explicitly states he enjoys and appreciates sansa’s romanticism. besides, when jon gets hurt, he gets pretty nasty, so if sansa was bullying him, he would have said one thing or two instead, he said “she looked radiant” so that’s how we know he has a soft spot for her. whenever they think of each other in the books, there is no disdain or resentment, only a little unfamiliarity, which makes a lot of sense

[riothegreenwitch]

Tired of the “people who don’t want to rule make the best leaders” bullshit that Game of Thrones and House of the Dragon both try to sell. Every single person we’ve seen who doesn’t want to rule that ends up in power is absolutely terrible at it. What about Robert Baratheon and Viserys I’s reigns am I supposed to find appealing? They both fractured the kingdom and had wars break out as soon as they died because they did such a terrible job keeping the kingdoms together.

[pessimisticpigeonsworld]

I saw a tiktok comparing Paul Atreides to Daenerys and it made me want to gouge out my eyes and break my phone.

I just don't understand how Dany and Paul are comparable in any way. For one thing, Dany's ending in GOT only happened because of bad writing. There's no foreshadowing, no buildup, or reason for her fall.

Disclaimer: I haven't actually read the Dune books yet, just watched the movies and read Wikipedia stuff. So anyone who has read Dune, please please please correct me if I'm misunderstanding things.

From what I saw in the movies and read from secondhand sources, Paul was never meant to be a hero. Sure, he was a good kid, but his arc isn't that of a fallen hero. The moment Paul chose to exploit the fremen and the Bene Gesserit's false prophecy, he solidified himself as anything but a hero. He was set on vengeance and survival.

Paul is a fascinating character, but he's not a hero in any way, and wasn't at any point in his story (to my understanding).

Dany is a hero, whether you like it or not. From book/season one, she's been protecting those weaker than her to the best of her ability. She sacrifices her own desires and ambitions for the sake of others.

...this Mother of Dragons, this Breaker of Chains, is above all a rescuer. (ADWD - Tyrion VI)

Dany chooses to prioritize the innocent and the oppressed in her mission. Paul chooses to lead a holy war that will kill billions of innocents.

They're not comparable characters, because they're very different archetypes and communicate very different things from the authors. Dany is an underdog and someone who fights for justice while maintaining her gentleness. Paul is someone who basically embodies "for the greater good", sacrificing billions for the future.

Dany is written to be a hero, Paul is not. Dany is only turned from being a hero because of bad writing and sexism. Paul's descent is well written and clearly foreshadowed. Paul's story is what D&D wanted to gaslight the viewers into believing Dany's was. Unfortunately, that seems to have worked for certain parts of this fandom. Also, the poster had a Sansa pfp, so I think it's easy to tell why they view Dany this way.

Paul and Dany's characters aren't even in the same ballpark as each other. Comparing them is stupid.

[rainhadaenerys]

I don't really care about HOTD all that much, but damn, it's hard to ignore how biased in favor of the Greens the show is. I just watched the new trailers, and not only is the Green trailer longer, but the Black trailer is filled with shots of the Green characters instead of actually focusing on the Blacks. The Black trailer also really seems to try to paint the Blacks in a worse light, while the Green trailer is all about "poor Alicent" who only wants to honor Viserys's "last wish" and who needs to be told by her father that violence is necessary because she is oh so upset about it... oh poor Alicent who made sacrifices for her house and the realm her entire life... the Green favoritism is really blatant.

[asongofstarkandtargaryen]

When I talk about asoiaf and someone mentions events that only happened on got