#anti daenerys targaryen

[ahouseofstarkdefender]

I can't help but think of the parallel that this character of hers put her next to Sansa.

Like Dany, Sansa believes in a fantasy in history. And it's her experience with the Lannisters in the middle of the court that wakes her up. They try to make her understand how naive she is, insulting her, talking to her in a condescendent manner and even humiliating her. Only for the pleasure, obviously. Even Petyr Baelish gave her some advice to be a paternal/trusting figure and grooming her to be his perfect smart wife.

All of this teaches Sansa that she shouldn't be delusional but she still is optimist and kind.

And Dany still lives in the delusion of the mighty and great Targs and how she is going to be like them. She accepts now that she is a dragon, but she needs a push to make her the Mad Queen.

So here is Dany, in her court where everyone (except a few if she didn't kill them) love her and she is the superior being. Very contrasting to Sansa's situation.

And here comes the Lannister that will teach her what she is missing in her history lessons. Not to insult, condescend or humiliate her, but to tell her "Eh... After Aegon the Conqueror brought fire and blood there wasn't peace, prosperity, and justice, you know? So if you kill a few thousand people you would only be doing what he did. They will love you... eventually *wink*.

It seems like Dany in book is still having hard time believing that her father was a Mad King who was hated in Westros. When Selmy tried to mention it she stopped him because she didn't like where it was going despite she asked him about it.

That entire scene is so...

(Cut for long quote)

Dany is reading a book of fairytales that she acknowledges are not proper history. (Symbolismmmmm.) But she keeps getting distracted by doubts about herself.

She played at being a queen, yet sometimes she still felt like a scared little girl. Viserys always said what a dolt I was. Was he truly mad? She closed the book. She could still recall Ser Jorah, if she wished. Or send Daario to kill him. Dany fled from the choice, out onto the terrace. She found Rhaegal asleep beside the pool, a green and bronze coil basking in the sun. Drogon was perched up atop the pyramid, in the place where the huge bronze harpy had stood before she had commanded it to be pulled down. He spread his wings and roared when he spied her. There was no sign of Viserion, but when she went to the parapet and scanned the horizon she saw pale wings in the far distance, sweeping above the river. He is hunting. They grow bolder every day. Yet it still made her anxious when they flew too far away. One day one of them may not return, she thought. “Your Grace?” She turned to find Ser Barristan behind her. “What more would you have of me, ser? I spared you, I took you into my service, now give me some peace.” “Forgive me, Your Grace. It was only … now that you know who I am …” The old man hesitated. “A knight of the Kingsguard is in the king’s presence day and night. For that reason, our vows require us to protect his secrets as we would his life. But your father’s secrets by rights belong to you now, along with his throne, and … I thought perhaps you might have questions for me.” Questions? She had a hundred questions, a thousand, ten thousand. Why couldn’t she think of one? “Was my father truly mad?” she blurted out. Why do I ask that? “Viserys said this talk of madness was a ploy of the Usurper’s …” “Viserys was a child, and the queen sheltered him as much as she could. Your father always had a little madness in him, I now believe. Yet he was charming and generous as well, so his lapses were forgiven. His reign began with such promise … but as the years passed, the lapses grew more frequent, until …” Dany stopped him. “Do I want to hear this now?” Ser Barristan considered a moment. “Perhaps not. Not now.” “Not now,” she agreed. “One day. One day you must tell me all. The good and the bad. There is some good to be said of my father, surely?” “There is, Your Grace. Of him, and those who came before him. Your grandfather Jaehaerys and his brother, their father Aegon, your mother … and Rhaegar. Him most of all.” “I wish I could have known him.” Her voice was wistful. “I wish he could have known you,” the old knight said. “When you are ready, I will tell you all.” Dany kissed him on the cheek and sent him on his way. That night her handmaids brought her lamb, with a salad of raisins and carrots soaked in wine, and a hot flaky bread dripping with honey. She could eat none of it. Did Rhaegar ever grow so weary? she wondered. Did Aegon, after his conquest? Later, when the time came for sleep, Dany took Irri into bed with her, for the first time since the ship. But even as she shuddered in release and wound her fingers through her handmaid’s thick black hair, she pretended it was Drogo holding her … only somehow his face kept turning into Daario’s. If I want Daario I need only say so. She lay with Irri’s legs entangled in her own. His eyes looked almost purple today … (ASOS, Daenerys VI)

The whole scene is so utterly rife with Red Flags.

Dany has just commited a(nother) massacre, made herself Supreme Leader Until I Move On and banished Jorah for his past spying. She (correctly) surmises that she is overwhelmed and questions her suitability for the job of ruling. She questions her family's sanity.

She wants to avoid what those questions imply. Out on the terrace, she sees Drogon doing his best Replacement Harpy impression (symbolismmmmm) while another one is off hunting boldly (surely nothing bad can come of that behavior in the near future...) and...

A glimpse of hope! A dude with unique personal information about her family appears and offers to share it! Perhaps that uncomfortable feeling can return into focus and be addressed?

Nah.

AND THEN the guy goes "You know what? You're totally right. This isn't really relevant or urgent. Nothing about your family history is alarming enough to question your path in general. Your brother was AWESOME btw."

Barristan, even if he had told her things, would never have helped her come to uncomfortable conclusions because he is the worst kind of hypocritical sycophant for a) any monarch he happens to be serving at the time, and b) House Targaryen in particular. The conversation they are putting off... would not have been useful anyway.

So a placated Dany returns the focus on herself and her feelings, but validated, and her next move is to turn the "this must never happen again" incident with her "not a sex slave" Irri into "actually, time to honorable serve your khaleesi like a sex toy while she fantasizes about other people". People who remind her of her family and their Valyrian looks.

She is burrowing into her Targaryen identity in ways she hadn't even done before, taking liberties with her power that she had shied away from before. Her yelp review will be underwhelming. "Her kisses tasted of duty". Because that's what it was. Dany doesn't care.

She ends up making a choice the next morning.

“My city,” said Dany. “I was looking for a house with a red door, but by night all the doors are black.”

And it is a reasonable choice on the surface, that finally has her standing fast to accept a sense of responsibility for the outcomes of her actions here.

But already we see how the missing context of Westerosi history is distorting her understanding, and Barristan bolstered this. Because she creates a difference where there isn't one.

“Aegon the Conqueror brought fire and blood to Westeros, but afterward he gave them peace, prosperity, and justice. But all I have brought to Slaver’s Bay is death and ruin. I have been more khal than queen, smashing and plundering, then moving on.” “There is nothing to stay for,” said Brown Ben Plumm. “Your Grace, the slavers brought their doom on themselves,” said Daario Naharis. “You have brought freedom as well,” Missandei pointed out. “Freedom to starve?” asked Dany sharply. “Freedom to die? Am I a dragon, or a harpy?” Am I mad? Do I have the taint? “A dragon,” Ser Barristan said with certainty. “Meereen is not Westeros, Your Grace.” “But how can I rule seven kingdoms if I cannot rule a single city?” He had no answer to that. Dany turned away from them, to gaze out over the city once again. “My children need time to heal and learn. My dragons need time to grow and test their wings. And I need the same. I will not let this city go the way of Astapor. I will not let the harpy of Yunkai chain up those I’ve freed all over again.” She turned back to look at their faces. “I will not march.” “What will you do then, Khaleesi?” asked Rakharo. “Stay,” she said. “Rule. And be a queen.”

Dany sees a difference between dragon and harpy that the earlier image of Drogon in the harpy's place already shows us is a false dichotomy. She imagines prosperity and peace in the aftermath of Aegon's invasion where he created no such thing. She is concerned with her sanity and suitability to rule, so she will stay temporarily to test herself on this city of human beings.

The human children must heal and learn. Her dragons need to grow and fly.

Dany needs the same, she says. The same as her dragons, not the same as her children. There will be little healing and learning. But we will see her fly off on Drogon, ecstatic, while the people of her city burn below.

It was never going to end any other way, because "if I look back I am lost" is her curse. She is not interested in the facts, because they hinder her fantasy of the red door. But she will also never get facts because there is no one who would give them to her.

She prefers a book of fairytales over a proper history and she will begin to forget there's a difference.

[the-daily-dreamer]

The targaryen ruled 130 years without dragons. And the most capable kings were all targaryen. After them it was a decline for the throne. Robert, joffrey, tommen, cercei were all sith ruler .

I see targ stans are investing in high quality air to fill their heads lol

But anyways. “The most capable kings were all targaryens”. You know who else were targaryens? The worst rulers of Westeros. Robert, Cersei, Joffrey, and Tommen aren’t even close to the worst kings and queen to rule. And bringing them up as evidence to show that the targaryens are good is so disingenuous.

Maegor the Cruel, Aegon the Unworthy, The Mad King Aerys, Rhaenyra (yes, I know that’s controversial), and Daenerys (yes, I know that’s even more controversial) are all far FAR worse than anyone you mentioned.

Maegor killed his wife and her entire family. He was a usurper (apparently it’s good when the targs you like do it lol), a kinslayer (also a thing only good when it’s targs you like doing it), raped and tortured many people, wiped out entire houses, killed any and everyone that he saw in any way as deserving, and created a huge war with the faith of the seven.

Aegon the unworthy was corrupt and lazy and legitimized his bastards leading to the blackfyre rebellions that led to endless bloodshed for 5 generations.

Aerys was so bad he had a rebellion staged against him that ended his family dynasty. He burned fathers and sons together. He tortured people and burned them alive. He abused and raped his wife when he would burn people alive. He wanted to kill the entire city of kings landing.

Rhaenyra (who like it or not went down in history as one of the worst rulers) known as maegor with teats taxed her people to starvation. She had daily executions. She had knights inquisitors hunt down and punish people.

Daenerys burnt down kings landing, was complicit in the rape and enslavement of hundreds, ruined city economies so badly slavery was a better option, then profited from said slavery, abandoned the people she conquered (no doubt ensuring they will be enslaved much more harshly after supporting her), raped a “free” slave that she admits still acted like a slave because that’s all she knew, oh yeah and again, SHE BURNT DOWN KINGS LANDING. And this is after the people you listed.

And this isn’t including non Targaryen rulers that ruined lives like the blackfyres. Or rulers that are bad but weirdly beloved like Aegon I who basically conquered people by threatening to kill them and everyone they loved, subjugating a country for hundreds of years.

The best rulers I admit were Targaryens. But that’s because they were the only rulers save for 4 people. Of those four, two were bad and two were incompetent. Not nearly the sadistic “mad” people I described above. And funnily enough, as soon as a Targaryen came back to power…things got worse again. Funny how that is.

Oh and by the way. Going with the histories of Westeros. Guess who is among the best rulers according to small folk Aegon II and Alicent. Seethe :)

[amaltheas-garden]

Just so we're all on the same page:

Cersei's fascination with wildfire=bad

Melisandre's fire/blood magic=bad

Aerion, Aegon V, Aerys II meddling with fire=bad

Daenerys' three flying flamethrowers=somehow good???

Make it make sense 😐

[lemonhemlock]

do you think the "female character in a position of power goes mad" trope is misogynistic? i think dany is a cersei in the making but i worry about how george will handle that and the chances of jon killing her… ugh

i think dark! dany has the potential to be one of the most radical and transformative characters of our generation, ESPECIALLY BECAUSE we spent so much time in her POV witnessing her struggles and her compassion for the downtrodden comes from a genuine place!

again, it's not 'punching down' because she is a woman, think of the intersection of gender, race and class! daenerys is THEE white woman, aryan-coded & overpowered with magic who wants to 'conquer' a land she's never been to and rule because of her 'birthright'. the rights or wishes of her future subjects are of no concern to her.

[rise-my-angel]

I think its funny that technically Jon has "the blood of Old Valyria" in him as well. But if you told him that as if it meant something, you know Jon would dismiss it entierly as unimportant, and that he does not give a single shit about it. Being Valyrian is so integral to someone like Danaerys or really any mainstream Targaryeans identity.

Then you have Jon Snow whose just like "I have things to do, I don't care" literally anytime something tries to convince Jon hes special. He's the opposite of everything Valyrians stand for and it would be so funny if hes the only one with Targaryean blood to survive, so that the last living relic of the ancient Valyrian Freehold is stuck inside the most grouchy, anti prophecy Northerner known to man.

[sunnysideaeggs]

If your strong female character needs every other female character to always agree with her and sacrifice her own goals for her maybe she isn’t that great and heroic 🫶🏻

[catofoldstones]

Show Dany’s burning of KL has always been seen as a Mad Queen argument but I always thought of it as entitlement and rage emanating from that entitlement. The people of Westeros were supposed to welcome her and her armies, they were supposed to open their arms and open their forts up to the rightful ruler of their kingdom, they were supposed to vouch for her not be resistant to her rightful conquest, not attack her, provide her with what was hers all along, overthrow the usurpers in her name before she even came along. They were supposed to be on her side and they weren’t. They betrayed her. So she burned them and she took what was hers, with fire and blood. It wasn’t some of unreasoned madness but I feel wrongfully reasoned clarity.

[saltywinteradult]

not the targaryen stans seeing daemon having a vision of dany and thinking this means dany was actually meant to be the hero, she was good all along guys, she actually was the Chosen One destined to save the world and they just ruined her for no reason!!! jesus christ if you people wanted a simple good vs evil narrative you should’ve stuck to harry potter

this shit is so disrespectful to asoiaf because prophecies being misinterpreted through people’s own biases and blind spots and causing more harm than good when obsessed over (see also: rhaegar) is such an important theme in the books. fuck house of the dragon for upending that theme and making the targs the good guys who totally had an altruistic reason to violently conquer westeros, actually! and fuck hotd for implying that daenerys (the person who probably killed about as many people by burning king’s landing as she saved by helping fight the white walkers) was actually a good guy all along.

[atopvisenyashill]

i get that we hate monarchy and some targs are assholes but george explicitly sets the dragons as the defenders of life and their return as the revival of magic in a world? i really do not think supposed to see them as the 'ultimate threat' or ONLY as a threat bc there's foreshadowing for dany fighting in the long night and the others are in charge of that role? even if i think magic is gonna leave the world in the end…

“george explicitly sets the dragons as defenders of life” …..huh?

these dragons?? look what’s coming in twow, it’s not any defending of life, it’s destruction!

and yeah, I know it’s a common fan idea that Dany ~reawakens magic~ but the thing is that’s just…not true. I’m not trying to discount the insane magic Dany pulls off, or that her specific type of magic -being fire magic - starts going crazy once she wakes the dragons from stone. But the Starklings all being wargs happens before Dany wakes her dragons, as does Bran opening his third eye. I don’t think Dany nor Valyrian magic or blood in general is going to be the end all be all of magic especially a form of magic she’s not even involved with and there are several.

also “foreshadowing for fighting in the long night” while I definitely go back and forth on what some of the foreshadowing in her chapters means for her endgame, I think it’s really silly to say that passages like the ant one are concrete evidence that she’s going to be involved in the long night. i still don’t even fully buy she’s going to be involved AT ALL in the long night - i don’t think she ever goes North of the trident even if she DOES fight them. Beyond that, again, I get it’s a popular fan theory that the Others are going to be the ultimate evil that the hero’s will be allowed to uncritically massacre but a) so george LITERALLY talks about the ethical ramifications of killing orcs, why is it so ingrained in fandom that he’s just going to go full tolkien here? how does that make any sense? considering how important the isle of faces is, i think it’s much more likely a new pact is made and whatever happens with the others stops because of THAT not because of some big battle that wipes them all out. As george says himself, it’s a trope that basically legitimizes committing genocide? And it’s not one he likes!

and b) por que no los dos????? it’s not like the lannisters are the only evil people in the whole series!

[kadarakey]

If there’s one thing we learnt from asoiaf adaptations is that they love to take an extremely problematic blond woman and create a cult around her character.

Character complexity you say? Give it to any character but her. Why should a dragon barbie have any nuance. Oh the books say so? Never mind about the books, we’ll do everything in our power to make her crimes as negligible as possible by destroying other characters in the process. Mass murderer you say? Everyone should have a flaw. Who cares about an odd hundred/thousand peasants anyway, look at her witty one liners and elaborate hairstyles, she’s so badass 🥹

[agentrouka-blog]

How is Dany a colonizer? What about Westerosi history, and even how the Starks got there in the first place?

The history of migration into Westeros is certainly not without conflict. Especially since GRRM twice emphasizes an interplay between seeking refuge (from the slaving Valyrians!) and waging violent conquest in turn.

But it's still a bold claim to create an equivalence between that and a campaign of conquest run by a single family in possession of a perfectly safe island home (itself a former outpost of the Valyrian slave empire!), based entirely on the superior firepower of their dragons and demonstrated willingness to commit vast destruction for power. A family that demands rulership over all, and then proceeds to claim exceptionality from the local laws and traditions based on their inherent sense of superiority, avoiding non-Valyrian intermarriage wherever possible for centuries. They are deliberately holding themselves apart from the people they rule. Then they promptly wage civil wars in almost every generation, destroy the basis of their power and then soon follow through with self-destruction in spite of a local willingness to tolerate their rule even without dragons - for a time.

They were deposed for abject tyranny after 300 years where their main impact was spectacularly destructive warfare. They are out.

There is no "rightful claim" to anything.

What Dany lays claim to is a legacy of imperialism and needless conquest for personal power and resources. So... yeah, people will describe her in those terms.

[the-daily-dreamer]

Reminder that if your feminism revolves around propping up women that partake in traditionally masculine activities/roles and shitting on or even hating women who embody traditionally feminine roles and enjoy feminine activities you’re not really a feminist.

It sets the precedent that women are only valuable and valid if they have traditionally masculine traits, which feeds a narrative that masculine traits are better simply because they are associated with men who are the ideal. It perpetuates the idea that things that are feminine and traditionally associated with women are in fact inferior to men/masculinity and should be looked down upon and belittled.

And, it alienates so many individuals that feel more comfortable in femininity, regardless of gender identity.

I think people in the ASOIAF fandom really need to learn this because feminine characters are so despised on the basis that they are not “better” women. Simply because they don’t embody traditionally masculine things like conquering or fighting.

Much of the hate comes from stans that love characters like Rhaenyra, Daenerys, and Arya (and do not get me wrong I love Arya), who are women and girls that are in positions that allow for more traditionally masculine behaviors and tomboyishness. And they will say incredibly sexist things about how the other women in media are inferior and directly contrast these women to their faves negatively by pointing out that they’re “too weak” or “subservient”. They reduce femininity to weakness and bowing to patriarchy instead of considering that some people have a different, more feminine nature. And that is OK! Just because a woman isn’t wielding a sword or fighting on the front lines or pursuing leadership roles in masculine ways (because historically women exacted and sought power in different ways than men) doesn’t mean they aren’t valuable and strong characters. Do not use feminine characters as a negative comparison to show how “feminist” and great your fave is. Because it’s just so blatantly sexist.

Don’t fall into the trap of reinforcing patriarchal rhetoric!!! Don’t reinforce narratives that traditional masculinity is superior to femininity!! Don’t belittle feminine activities and act as if they aren’t valuable!!! Girbosses are great but so are gentlewomen.

[amaltheas-garden]

people still shocked that in the year of our lord 2024 some of us don't want to see Dany get her 'happy ending' by becoming the white savior who was promised

[lemonhemlock]

As a result of Daenerys torturing a little girl for nothing, she immediately regretted it, realized it was wrong, and then banned it.

so it's ok to commit a heinous act as long as you feel sorry afterwards. gotcha

[rise-my-angel]

Anytime I see a post about how Rhaenyra won because her bloodline leads to the Prince that was Promised I have the most petty urge to just reblog their post with a single gif of Jon Snow.

[esther-dot]

I mean it's worth mentioning that Mirri exploited the grief of a fourteen-year-old girl, one who attempted to save and protect her, taking both her husband and her child (and therefore her security and stability in the society she was still pretty new to, as well as getting a lot of the slaves Dany saved from worse fates killed) in the process. I'd probably kill someone for that too. And if I knew I'd get a dragon out of it? Fuck that bitch if I can't have my son I'm having a dragon.

Like yeah it's not great but per the moral standards of this series Dany is pretty good

I've already explained, Mirri didn't kill Drogo, and Dany knows Mirri didn't kill Rhaego.

As for Dany's age meaning she isn't responsible for her actions:

"Unsullied!" Dany galloped before them, her silver-gold braid flying behind her, her bell chiming with every stride. "Slay the Good Masters, slay the soldiers, slay every man who wears a tokar or holds a whip, but harm no child under twelve, and strike the chains off every slave you see." She raised the harpy's fingers in the air . . . and then she flung the scourge aside. "Freedom!" she sang out. "Dracarys! Dracarys!" (ASOS, Daenerys III)

Dany ordered her men to kill kids younger than that.

And Dany "saved" Mirri? They burned and murdered and pillaged and raped throughout her village. Dany thinks of it all as the cost of the throne ie Dany's ambition demands it. You don't have to agree with each POV, every thought they have. Sometimes you are meant to judge them. Listen to Mirri's perspective on being saved:

"I spoke for you," she said, anguished. "I saved you." "Saved me?" The Lhazareen woman spat. "Three riders had taken me, not as a man takes a woman but from behind, as a dog takes a bitch. The fourth was in me when you rode past. How then did you save me? I saw my god's house burn, where I had healed good men beyond counting. My home they burned as well, and in the street I saw piles of heads. I saw the head of a baker who made my bread. I saw the head of a boy I had saved from deadeye fever, only three moons past. I heard children crying as the riders drove them off with their whips. Tell me again what you saved." "Your life." Mirri Maz Duur laughed cruelly. "Look to your khal and see what life is worth, when all the rest is gone."(AGOT, Daenerys IX)

And then what does Dany do? She takes Mirri's life.

"You will not hear me scream," Mirri responded as the oil dripped from her hair and soaked her clothing. "I will," Dany said, "but it is not your screams I want, only your life. (AGOT, Daenerys X)

Dany didn't save anything. She took. She repeatedly benefits from other people's suffering.

You can convince yourself to be cool with this, but the author isn't. He didn’t intend for audiences to work themselves into moral pretzels to avoid condemning Dany or realize where her story is going.

Here is what he said of some famous Dany essays:

And here are some quotes about Dany from those essays:

(link)

This is not a hero.