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gingermintpepper · 7 months ago

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As usual I read your tags always and so you said Apollo did not ask for resurrection of Asclepius and Hyacinthus so i just wanted to share this. About Asclepius death I read it on theoi.com, that earlier authors don't make him resurrect as a god but that's a later development mentioned only by Roman authors like Cicero, Hyginus and Ovid. But still Apollo has a role in Ovid's version

Ovid, Fasti 6. 735 ff (trans.Boyle) (Roman poetry C1st B.C. to C1st A.D.) : Clymenus [Haides] and Clotho resent the threads of life respun and death's royal rights diminished. Jove [Zeus] feared the precedent and aimed his thunderbolt at the man who employed excessive art. Phoebus [Apollon], you whined. He is a god; smile at your father, who, for your sake, undoes his prohibitions [i.e. when he obtains immortality for Asklepios].

So here it is actually because of Apollo the decision was taken to resurrect him as god. And with Hyacinthus, I don't think I've read about Artemis playing the primary role. I know in Sparta there was a picture of Artemis, Athena and Aphrodite carrying Hyacinthus and his sister to heaven.

This is not on theoi.com but I saw on Tumblr it's from Dionysiaca by Nonnus

Second, my lord Oiagros wove a winding lay, as the father of Orpheus who has the Muse his boon companion. Only a couple of verses he sang, a ditty of Phoibos, clearspoken in few words after some Amyclaian style: Apollo brought to life again his longhaired Hyacinthos: Staphylos will be made to live for aye by Dionysos.

So since he is singing inspired by amyclean stories it probably means in that place it was believed Apollo was the one to bring back his lover to life.

Apollo as god of order was very important so i think it shows how special these people (and admetus too) were to him that he decided to go against the order for them 🥺

ANON!! Shakes you like a bottle of ramune!! BELOVED ANON!!!!! I'm littering your face with kisses, I'm anointing you with olive oil and honey - you absolutely made my night with this because, not only did I get the pure serotonin shot of having someone interact with my tags (yippee, wahoo!!) I also got to have that wonderful feeling of "oh wow, have I misunderstood something that was integral to my understanding of this myth/figure this whole time or is this a case of interpretational differences?" which is imo vital for my aims and interests as someone who enjoys mythological content and literature.

I'll preface my response with this: Hyacinthus is by far the hardest of these to get accounts for because his revival itself, as you very astutely point out, is generally accounted for in painting/ritual format which muddies the waters on who interceded for what. I wasn't actually familiar with that passage from the Argonautica - and certainly didn't remember it so thank you very much for bringing it to my attention!

That said, what I've come to understand, both about Hyacinthus and about Asclepius is that in the accounts of their deaths, Apollo's position is startlingly clear.

For Hyacinthus, it is established time and again that Apollo would have sacrificed everything for him - his status, his power, his very own immortality and divinity. Ovid writes that Apollo would have installed him as a god if only he had the time:

(Ovid. Metamorphoses. Book X. trans. Johnston)

Many other writers too speak of how Apollo abandoned his lyre and his seat at Delphi to spend his days with Hyacinthus, but they also all agree that when it came to his death - he was powerless. Ovid gives that graphic account of Apollo's desperation as he tries all his healing arts to save him to no avail:

(Ovid, Metamorphoses Book X. Apollo me boy, methinks him dead. trans Johnston)

Bion, in one of his fragments, writes that Apollo was "dumb" upon seeing Hyacinthus' agony:

(Bion, The Bucolic Poets. Fragment XI. trans Edmonds)

Even Nonnus in the Dionysiaca speaks constantly of Apollo's helplessness in the face of Hyacinthus' fate where he writes that the god still shivers if a westward wind blows upon an iris:

and when Zephyros breathed through the flowery garden, Apollo turned a quick eye upon his young darling, his yearning never satisfied; if he saw the plant beaten by the breezes, he remembered the quoit, and trembled for fear the wind, so jealous once about the boy, might hate him even in a leaf...

(Nonnus, Dionysiaca, Book 3. trans Rouse)

And the point here is just that - Apollo, at least as far as I've read, cannot avert someone's death. He simply can't. Once they're already dead - once Fate has cut their string - all Apollo's power is gone and he can do nothing no matter how much he wants to. And this is, as far as I know, supported with the accounts of Asclepius as well!

Since you specifically brought up Ovid's account, I'll also stick only to Ovid's account but in Metamorphoses when we get Ovid's version of Coronis' demise, he writes that Apollo intensely and immediately regrets slaughtering Coronis. He regrets it so intensely that he, like he does with Hyacinthus, does his best to resuscitate her:

(Ovid, Metamorphoses Book Two. Apollo's regret)

And like Hyacinthus, when it becomes clear that what has happened cannot be undone, Apollo wails:

(Ovid, Metamorphoses Book Two. Apollo wept.)

Unlike his mother, Asclepius in her womb had not yet died and so, with the last of Apollo's strength, he does manage, at least, to save him.

(Ovid, Metamorphoses Book Two. Apollo puts the 'tearing out' in Asclepius.)

But it goes further than even that because Ocyrhoe, Chiron's daughter, a prophetess who unduly gained the ability to directly proclaim the secrets of the Fates, upon seeing the baby Asclepius, immediately prophesies his glory, his inevitable death and then his fated ascension:

(Ovid. Metamorphoses, Book Two. Ocyrhoe's prophecy. trans Johnston)

Before she too succumbs to her hubris and is transformed by the Fates into a horse so she can no longer speak secrets that aren't hers to share.

These things ultimately are important because it establishes two very important things: 1) Apollo can't do anything in the face of the ultimate Fate of mortals, which is, of course, death and 2) even when Apollo is Actively Devastated, regretful, yearning, mournful, guilty or some unholy combination of all of the above, when someone is dead, he accepts that they are gone. Even if he is devastated by it, even if he'll cry all the rest of his days about it - if they're dead? Apollo lets them go. In Fasti, when Zeus brings Asclepius back, he does not say Apollo asked him to - Zeus, or well, in this case Jove, brings Asclepius back because he wants Apollo to stop being mad at him.

(Ovid, Fasti VI. Apollo please come home your father misses you. trans. A.S Kline)

Even Boyle's translation which you used above in your findings hints that Zeus made Asclepius a god because he wanted Apollo to stop grieving. (i.e 'smile at your father', 'for your sake [he] undoes his prohibitions')

And like, Apollo was deeply upset by Asclepius' death - apart from killing the Cyclops in anger, in book 4 of the Argonautica, Apollonius writes that the Celts believe the stream of Eridanus to be the tears Apollo shed over the death of Asclepius when he left for Hyperborea after being chastised by Zeus for killing his Cyclops:

But the Celts have attached this story to them, that these are the tears of Leto's son, Apollo, that are borne along by the eddies, the countless tears that he shed aforetime when he came to the sacred race of the Hyperboreans and left shining heaven at the chiding of his father, being in wrath concerning his son whom divine Coronis bare in bright Lacereia at the mouth of Amyrus.

It all paints a very clear picture to me. Apollo did not ask for either of them to be brought back. Though bringing them back certainly pleased and delighted him, they are actions of other gods who are moved by Apollo's grief and mourning and seek to mollify him. Him not asking doesn't mean he didn't want them back which I think is a very important distinction by the by, but it simply means that Apollo knows the natural order of things and, even if it hurts, he isn't going to press his luck about it.

Which, of course, brings us to Admetus. And I'm really not going to overcomplicate this, Admetus is different because, very vitally, Admetus is not dead. Apollo can't do a thing once Fate has been carried out and Death has claimed a mortal but you know what he absolutely can do? Bargain like hell with the Fates before that point of inevitability. And that's what he does, ultimately for Admetus and Alcestis. He sought to prolong Admetus' life, not revive him from death or absolve him from death altogether and even after getting the Fates drunk, he's still only able to organise a sacrifice - a life for a life - something completely contingent on whether some other mortal would be willing to die in Admetus' place and not at all controllable by Apollo's own power.

All of these things, I think come back to that point you made - that Apollo's place as a god of order is very important and therefore these people are very special to him if it means he's willing to go against that order but, I also wish to challenge that opinion if you'd let me. Apollo's place as a god of order is very important and therefore, I would argue, that it is even more important that it is shown that he does not break the divine order, especially for the people that mean the most to him. The original context of my comments which started this conversation were on this lovely, lovely post by @hyacinthusmemorial which contemplated upon Asclepius from the perspective of an Emergency Medical personnel and included, in their tags, the very poignant lines "there's something about Apollo letting go when Asclepius couldn't that eats my heart away" and "you do what you can, you do your best, but you don't ever reach too far" and I think that's perfectly embodied with the Apollo-Asclepius dichotomy. Apollo grieves. He wails, he cries, he does his best each and every time to save that which is precious to him but he does not curse their nature, he does not resent that they are human and ultimately, he accepts that that which is mortal must inevitably die. There is nothing that so saliently proves that those who uphold rules are also their most staunch followers - if Apollo wants to delight in his place as Fate's mouthpiece, he cannot undo Fate. And, if even the god of healing and order himself cannot undo death, what right does Asclepius, mortal as he is, talented as he is, have to disrespect it?

The beauty of these stories isn't that Apollo loved them enough to bring them back. The beauty is that Apollo loved them enough to let them go.

#this is such a long ass post oh my god #ginger answers asks #This totally got away from me but I AM PASSIONATE ABOUT THIS AAAA #Anon beloved anon I hope you don't take this as me shutting you down or anything because that really isn't what I'm trying to do #I'm definitely going to dig more into the exactness of 'who petitioned for Hyacinthus to be revived actually?"#I always stuck to the belief that it was Artemis because of the depictions of his revival + his procession is usually devoid of Apollo #I know some renaissance paintings have him and Apollo reuniting but that's usually In The Heavens y'know #I genuinely couldn't think of any accounts that have Apollo Asking for anyone to be revived #Apollo does intercede sometimes but that's usually for immortals like Prometheus #Or even when he's left to preside over Zagreus' revival and repair in orphic tradition #Concerning Asclepius there's like a ton to talk about tbh #There's the fact that in some writings (in quite a lot actually) the reason Asclepius was killed wasn't necessarily that he brought someone #back - it was that he accepted money for it #Pindar wrote about it and Plato talks about how if Asclepius really did accept gold for a miracle then he was never a son of Apollo #It's a whole thing really #I think it's very important that it's Asclepius in his mortal folly that tests the boundaries of life and death tbh #The romanticisation of going to any length to bring back a loved one is nice and all #But sometimes the kindest and most lovely thing you can do for someone is to accept it #Just accept that they're gone - accept that there was nothing that could be done and even if the grief is heavy - keep living #Maybe we won't all get our lost loves back #But there are definitely always more people worth loving if you just live long enough to find them #apollo #asclepius #zeus #admetus #greek mythology #ovid #oh my god so much ovid #hyacinthus #coronis

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liamajoris · 2 months ago

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"Heropon cast fireball!!!"

I made this a while back but I was barely active on Tumblr back then so I never posted him here

#xenoblade chronicles #xenoblade #xcde #xc1 #nopon #fanart #wizardposting #shadow wizard money gang #fantasy illustration #reallyyyy pushing the boundaries of my artstyle with this one

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g4y-th0ughts · 2 days ago

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it’s so interesting to me as a(n obsessive) viewer how it’s actually three people in the relationship between lisa and carla, and four people in their family, because the ghost of becky is always looming among them. the woman is physically dead but she’s always there in spirit.

becky lingers between lisa and betsy - she always did when she was alive anyway, playing the mediator and giving lisa the perfect excuse to never deepen her relationship with betsy. to love her from afar and convince herself it was enough. she’s the one lisa still prays to for help with her daughter, sending texts to a number that doesn’t exist anymore, constantly comparing to a ghost and always coming out losing (becks, how do i do this without you?) (becky knew how to manage her better) (my other mom used to do all the touchy feely stuff).

becky lingers between betsy and carla, leaving betsy thorn between loving this new parental figure - who’s so different from lisa and probably so different from becky, who would let her drink beer out of their own fridge and wouldn’t let get away with murder because, unlike lisa, carla doesn’t have what feels like ancient debt towards her - and seeking justice for the one that’s gone, for becky’s memory. carla is constantly reminded that no matter what she does with betsy, she can’t fill a ghost’s shoes. and she doesn’t want to, she knows she can’t, but maybe she’d like to walk alongside her footsteps, make new ones without ever erasing hers. (nobody is trying to replace her) (I don’t want to replace Becky but) (i love you, i love you both).

becky lingers between lisa and carla, forcing lisa into some kind of three-way relationship with the woman she loves and the woman she loved. making place for her dead wife in the life she is building with her new girlfriend. the new girlfriend she loves so much she deep down resents for taking her out of what should’ve been life-long loyalty to a ghost, a lifetime of punishment. moving on feels a bit like betrayal, like breaking an unspoken promise (I’ll be devoted to your ghost and i’ll protect our child, that’s what my life will be like) (fell in love with another woman and almost killed our child). carla is caught in the middle of this silent war, threading carefully in order not to disrespect a woman she’s never even met. fearing that the holy entity could haunt her for claiming something that isn’t hers, that she hasn’t built (she inherited a sinking ship that she’s trying so hard to salvage but could she know better than the one who built it?) (is she good enough?) (can she compete with someone whose memory can never be tainted?)

and ultimately Becky’s intangible presence has an impact on the whole (fragile) family system. they’re always dancing around her ghost. sometimes their reactions don’t make sense unless you remember that there’s an invisible player that they can’t let go of. it’s like there’s a chair around the table that doesn’t belong to anyone present but isn’t empty either. and scooting it away or having someone else sit in it would be sacrilegious. but at the same time, you can’t keep setting up the table for someone who doesn’t eat anymore. so, what do you do? how do you move on without ever really forgetting? how do you set up a peaceful but limited space for your ghost to coexist with you without having her invade all the rooms of your house, your heart, your brain? past and future. so so interesting to watch.

#swarla #carla connor #lisa swain #coronation street #i’d pay good money to have more Becky swain lore #such an important character and she’s not even alive #and i think it’s so interesting to think about grief in general and all the many complex feelings it causes #and how the people who leave us never really leave us and that’s beautiful but also haunting if we don’t put boundaries #and i know it’s a soap but I’d enjoy watching a family therapy session of these characters so!much

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aroacewxs · 1 year ago

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hey everyone do you ever think about how much of rui's love for nene is stored inside nenerobo

#project sekai #kamishiro rui #kusanagi nene #nenerobo #wxs rui #wxs nene #how nenerobo was literally created by rui because he couldn't stand to see her suffer #couldn't stand to see her lose that spark for theatre and music.#how nenerobo keeps track of nene's limits + boundaries + energy + social battery #how nenerobo just KNOWS what upsets nene and what may throw her off #because rui knows. because rui knows nene like nobody else does #+ i don't know if this is canon because i never found the source material but the self defense system that rui incorporated into nene robo?#when he found out that nene was staying behind after rehearsals to practice??!! ?!? uhahghhgh #he loves her so much it's going to make me sick. i need to consume a brick #also. to this day i still find it hilarious that nenerobo had a SALARY when they worked at phoeniland #the money went straight to rui so he could spend it on her upgrades #but still. the idea of it. cracks me up #like yeah let's start paying this incredibly intricate ai our employed show performer of 17 years made from scratch.#im sure this is Normal

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sinful-lanterns · 5 months ago

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super random thought, but does ray get to be spoiled by the SMC or at least lady pearl/deren as much as luvia? just curious since luvia's the one fronting most of the time😭 i can imagine she'd be pretty cautious around pearl knowing what happened in fortuna, so how does the latter try to gain her trust?

Ray is pretty skeptical with being a sugar baby. She only puts up with it because Luvia enjoys it a lot and she does what Luvia wants.

I guess you can consider Ray a sugar baby as well? But only to Deren because she still finds Lady Pearl to be a danger. It would take a very, very long time to regain the trust between Lady Pearl and Ray, but Ray will put up with Pearl’s spoils because she knows Luvia likes to be spoiled by Pearl.

Ray is fine with Deren and the other sugar mommies though. She will deny ever liking the spoils the mommies give her, but she secretly loves getting the extra money for Luvia in the endgame :)

#⛓️ interrogation complete #sugar mommy au #btw the mommies all respect ray’s boundaries ofc #at most she just sits next to them and receives money for being cute lol #she doesn’t have to do anything physical #luvia prefers doing that anyway

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thegreatimpersonator · 7 months ago

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its genuinely so crazy how far up taylor’s ass some of you are. even a colonoscopy can’t get you out.

#‘i believe she’s doing the best she can for this election’ and that’s nothing? bc she’s doing nothing- in fact she’s making it worse #‘she’s also gonna be affected by this election bc she’s a women’ actually she’s not at all she has enough money to avoid any issues #‘taylor has a diverse group of friends’ WHERE you mean a bunch of rich majority white people?? hello?#yall genuinely are so delusional and ignorant like my god #‘i’m focusing on what i can do for the upcoming election’ you mean blogging and projecting emotions onto taylor and travis #writing fanfic live and ignoring how they’re silence contributes to mass ignorance #and weirdly talking about their sex life and just overall being a huge fucking weirdo with no respect or boundaries #‘well i think they stayed in tonight bc he’s flying him tomorrow bc he has practice’#WHY DO YOU KNOW HE HAS PRACTICE WHY DO YOU CARE WHAT THEYRE DOING RN OMFG #tp

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thebeautyofanoracle · 7 months ago

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deoidesign · 7 months ago

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just wanted to say that I absolutely LOVE your comic I am so inspired by it and it’s so lovely and I wanna buy the physical books (I’ve never done that before) I just AUGGHHH EVERYTHING ABOUT IT IS SO 💙💙💙

do you allow fanart? And is there anything not allowed? I wanna draw adam and steve so bad 😭

Of course it's allowed! Fanart fanfic fan music fan dubs whatever!

I like to think I'm sort of "building a playground" when I make a story, have fun on it! I made it for you!

In my general opinion, it's not my business what my "fandom" does... It's on you and also me to curate our own spaces! If you're inspired by my work in any way, that's the greatest honor I could imagine and I want you to feel fully free to explore that. If someone is being weird, I know where the block button is and they can keep being weird where I don't have to see it haha

Just don't like... sell it... it's messy legally with webtoon and I'm one person making the story and it's my whole income so the few sales I get are kind of huge for me ;_;

#the way I see it is if I put up a boundary of like 'dont make something that I wouldnt want to see'#all it does is scare the people who respect me into not making anything!#and the people who were never going to respect me anyways were going to make those things regardless #because they didn't respect me. so they wouldnt care if I put that boundary up.#so my opinion is like honestly it's not my business what you do... if you're doing something weird with my story it's not reflecting on me #like youre the one doing the weird thing not me...? so why would I care LOL #I'm pretty good about blocking tags or ignoring the things that make me uncomfortable. which has happened #also like. I'll be honest #if you sold like 3 I also wouldnt care AHGASJGLKGJASLGKJSA #cause idk. I dont generally feel like it's taking away from my business...#idk!!! it's a weird zone #like I need money to live but morally I'm not opposed to other people making art and selling it so idk where to land on that #but uhhh webtoon wouldnt like it if you sold it. so #I'm not going to like go after someone idk...#if I did not need the money to live. I wouldnt care at all and would probably encourage other people selling my stuff #or like their art of my stuff. not my art of my stuff. never do that #thats just regular theft #but webtoon does NOT!!! like that and idk how much they go after stuff like that. I know they went after scanlation sites sob #novaeverse #asks #sorry this is so unclear. my opinions on it are unclear lmao #basically. do whatever.#I can't stop what you are doing and I will not waste the energy trying #all I ask for is some basic respect!#and I dont think I can or should ask for more. so #enjoy! make whatever! it's literally making free art for me AUGASJGLKSAJGALKGJ how could I say no...

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noahtally-famous · 11 months ago

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can't believe this hasn't been said before but unhinged!scarlett and unhinged!dave would be an iconic duo. shame pi didn't get a second season bc these two in an alliance would basically succeed in destroying the island, they'd wipe everyone out

the fact that they're both versions of the nerd character so they're already smart in their own ways, the fact that they have absolutely zero fucks to give anymore, their individual darker sides have come out (whether it was hidden consciously (scarlett) or unconsciously (dave)), and they've each attempted to kill/seriously injure one or more contestant(s) (and mess up the island in the process) just to reach their end goal. imagine if these two found a common goal somehow, literally nothing could get in their paths (except possibly each other)

#these two in an alliance that ends with one or both of them turning on the other would be wild #tbh i know ppl talk abt wishing roti getting a second season but the potential in a second season for pi?? there is so much!!#literally half the dynamics have changed and so have personalities for most of the characters in pi #max and scarlett's dynamic change and their shifts in characters #topher could easily shift from chris lover to chris hater. two extremes!!#he just wants to get chris fired or in pain or smth lmao #dave becoming more competitive and less romantic he turns more heartless (and a bit more reserved and unpredictable)#his heart is there its just v shrouded. and repressed memories dave of the finale!!#he knows smth big happened but the memories of exact details are fuzzy (when that mental curtain is ripped away its gonna be chaos)#amy and sammy's change in dynamics. sammy standing up for herself!!#i wanna say sky would join a second season to get a chance at the money (im a shawn winner truther)#but idk if after all that she'll want to lmao #but skave dynamic total shift if sky comes back!!!#dave doing anything to get her eliminated sky slowly starting to retaliate #it'd be interesting to explore ella and sugar's characters if they've changed or not #evil scarlett who doesnt hide it!!#jashawn ain’t gonna join i think lmao they deserve a nice break plus they split the million so #rodney who is still a romantic but starts to understand the truth of boundaries and the rose colored glasses start to break #(he gets a sexuality revelation when he crushes on one of the guys)#just imagine how wack things would have gone with a second season #the different interactions and alliances and friendships and enemies #and the interactions/dynamics in the first season def would have changed in a second one #this is making me remember the whole layout for a second pi season younger me wrote with new and old contestants #anyway! second season pi was so deserved it would have been wack #noahtally-famous #total drama #td dave #td scarlett #tdpi

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capricores · 10 months ago

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me when someone shows me their chart and they have a strong venus square saturn aspect (especially when coupled with venus in capricorn)

#like i see that and im like ah. i know you've had a very difficult (re: relationships/self love) life your whole life #aka me reading my own chart #LMAO #i feel so bad for anyone else who also has this placement </3 #obv it teaches many more lessons thats the silver lining. you learn so much in life about #boundaries self love self worth assertion money management resource management etc #but man is it hard!#luna.txt

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drdemonprince · 1 year ago

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your post about only communicating the minimum needed reminded me of the gricean maxims (concept in linguistics describing how people communicate)! your advice was very similar to the maxim of quantity :)

From the UPenn School of Arts & Sciences site:

Grice's Maxims

The maxim of quantity, where one tries to be as informative as one possibly can, and gives as much information as is needed, and no more.

The maxim of quality, where one tries to be truthful, and does not give information that is false or that is not supported by evidence.

The maxim of relation, where one tries to be relevant, and says things that are pertinent to the discussion.

The maxim of manner, when one tries to be as clear, as brief, and as orderly as one can in what one says, and where one avoids obscurity and ambiguity.

#yeah suffice to say many autistics would be rated by others as not adhering to these #quantity is subjective #and relation is something that we tend to think of in a different way than non autistics #speaking very broadly #we think people want to understand all the working parts surrounding a thing #whereas many non autistic people want to know just what will affect them personally #or what will make sense from their position and viewpoint #i want to see the whole forest and all the trees in it and it does help me make better decisions than most non autistics #but when i try to tell THEM about that entire system to help improve their decision making it's a lot to take in and it's not intuitive #for them to follow and they feel that a good enough decision is good enough most of the time #they dont want a perfect one because its just not efficient to live that way #which fair #but it is frustrating when im trying to help someone save a ton of money skipping an unnecessary purchase or make their life at work easier #etc #but they just dont wanna hear it #but in time one must learn boundaries and not trying to save other people or rule their lives after all

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giantkillerjack · 2 years ago

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the average person doesn't expect you to be a perfect ethical consumer, that's not possible for the vast majority of us. but what youre saying is it's better to do nothing at all and choose the worst possible options (sweat shops, overseas shipping waste, idea/product theft, all wrapped up in SHEIN) than to put even the tiniest effort in where you can.

[they are referring to this post]

What I said was "some people are doing literally everything they can to survive and have no extra bandwidth to spend extra time and money on their purchases, and it is cruel and therefore un-punk to gatekeep punkness and add additional shame to these people's lives based on that fact."

I think it's still a good thing to try to ethically consume; I literally never said it wasn't. I had never even heard of SHEIN before. Rather, I am much more concerned about what I saw as arbitrary gatekeeping based on ability and income.

And frankly how dare you claim that I am supporting sweatshops and abuse by saying that this additional work you are demanding (in this case, presumably, vetting every clothing company you buy from) is not always possible for people. It is not a light accusation to accuse me of supporting abuse.

"How dare you say we piss on the poor", Etc. 🙄 this isn't Twitter. You are determined to enforce moral purity, but you are failing to see the nuance.

Because when I say "no extra bandwidth," I mean no extra bandwidth. This is not the "car shows it's on E but actually secretly it has a lot of gas left" situation that abled people constantly assume disabled people mean when they say they are at their limit.

This is "the car has stopped moving, and to move it I'd have to break my body pushing it." This is "at a certain point, people will hit a wall in terms of money and time and energy, and any energy spent after that comes directly out of their life force."

So the argument "okay but just spend a little more time money and energy actually" is not a valid one.

And the argument "if you are not able to do this specific task, then it means you're not doing anything else to make the world a better place" doesn't exactly impress me either. You said yourself that it is impossible to be a perfectly ethical consumer for most people.

How do you know what else people are doing to resist oppression? How many hours per week until your standards are met?What if someone works 3 jobs? Does that mean it's harder to be a good person if you're poor?? Why do you get to decide what specific avenue of bettering the world is the most morally repugnant or acceptable? What kind of proof of goodness and effort would make you satisfied enough to lay off on the shame?? Who are you helping??

Clothing is a fundamental human need, and some of us have to buy cheap fucking clothes quickly. Billionaires are buying their seventh yacht this month. The people who own fast fashion companies are abusing their workers and putting local affordable clothing stores out of business - and this applies for basically every company with price points that low because governments are failing to regulate corporations to enforce basic human rights.

I have $300 to spend on a new wardrobe as my old clothes have fallen apart or become too small. Do you have a way for me to get a new winter coat, 3 flannels, 10 shirts, 3 dress shirts, new sandals, 10 pairs of pants, 5 bras, 12 pairs of socks, and 10 pairs of underwear within that budget and also definitely 100% ethically sourced, with free returns in case it doesn't fit? Or will I simply have to use the cheap stores?

I have about an hour to spend on this per week. Many mainstream stores doesn't make clothes in my size, and I am now in *year 5* of needing an electric wheelchair and being unable to get one; plus I live up a flight of stairs, so I can't even bring my walker out with me - so thrift shopping is not gonna cover this. Should I continue to wear small and tattered clothing until I have the time, money, and energy to meet your standards?

Did you know there are more empty homes in this country than homeless people? If I decide to splurge on only 100% ethically-produced products, and I can't make rent, and I become homeless, are YOU going to be there for me?? Or are you too busy litigating the endless tiny shames of poverty in your own community?

So I ask you again, are you SURE this is where you want to direct your punk energy?

Because there are a whole lot of rich people relying on people like us punching down and to the side instead of looking up to see where the money is going.

Because energy and time, as it turns out, are limited resources. And I would never expect you to secretly have more than you claim to have.

#original #punk #hopepunk #cripplepunk #i swear to god #reading comprehension website #how dare you say we piss on the poor #jfc 'what you're saying is we should do nothing' - what I'm saying is YOU are doing nothing by enforcing this boundary #you have to give people more credit than this. i believe you want a better world too. and it would be cool if you used your energy to #instead ask 'how do i fight for the people in my community to be clothed and have the time and income to shop ethically?'#or 'how do i support activism that pushes for regulation that could control these companies?'#monitoring how poor people spend money is a supremely Republican thing to do. as is demanding clear moral purity from every scenario.#you want a better world too. you want to demand your peers do better. - fine. good.#but you need to be asking if you have remembered and included everyone's needs when making statements like this.#capitalism is all for forgetting about poor and disabled people and refusing to believe their limits.#shame is a necessary weapon in fighting greed but it IS a weapon. be so careful where you point that shit. enough shame can kill a person #and a lot of us are already defending from it from all sides.#shaming a person who is already at their limit for not doing more is an act of cruelty. think very carefully about what that means please.#i literally don't even know what SHEIN is lol i just know classism when i see it #but I've had friends whose clothes were visibly falling apart with no income and so much so shame so deep in their hearts they were dying #and if they had seen that post it would have made them even sicker and gotten them no closer to the dignity of being properly clothed #shame is a weapon and /you need to be careful!!!!/

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