#miraculous criticism

[xwonderlandresidentx]

I think it could've worked, if Ladybug and Chat Noir made the decision together.

I like to imagine a scenario where they play keep-away of sorts with Monarch, both of them taking turns passing each other their Miraculous, unifying, and beating Gabe's ass.

Once the concept of Unification was established it honestly would've been a waste for at least one of the main leads to not use both main Miraculous.

In a keep-away situation it would've allowed for both main leads to get a cool new design and powered up action scenes, it would've shown Marinette be willing to give up some control and trust Adrien, it would've allowed Adrien more agency and strengthened his bond with Marinette by letting him actually see her trust him with something as important as her Miraculous and her safety while she's depowered, and it would've been really freakin' funny.

GabeMoth getting beat down by two kids playing a game. All of his overcomplicated scheming and manipulation coming to an end because he loses to two kids essentially playing monkey-in-the-middle (and punching him really hard everytime he misses a catch)

This likely would've required a partner identity reveal before the final battle, which, hey look at that, another good thing.

My scalding hot take about the finale is that there is no way to ever make Bug Noire a valid writing choice because it goes against Marinette's arc of learning to stop taking all the burdens onto herself and learning to rely on others and their support, and also against Adrien's arc of learning to assert himself and his worth and independence after a lifetime of having others make decisions for him and dictating his actions. There, I said it.

[eldritch-ace]

I too think he deserves a kwagatama

[clemnoir]

the new ladyblog merch is … polarizing

[miraculouslbcnreactions]

The Best Friend Showdown

Season four had many, many flaws. One of the big ones was the Rena Rouge vs Chat Noir conflict where Ladybug starts relying on Alya more and more, basically using her to replace Master Fu. We get a sense that Chat Noir feels inferior to Rena Rouge because of this change, but it’s never directly addressed. The most we get is this conversation from Hack-San:

Ladybug: I'm really sorry, Cat Noir. I should've told you. I mean, if I found out that you told someone about your secret identity, I'd... probably be upset, too. I'm really sorry I hurt your feelings. Cat Noir: You didn't hurt my feelings. You did everything right. 

Which is actually a really weird bit of dialogue because - as far as I can tell - nothing in the episode revealed that Scarabella knew Ladybug's identity. She hands out miraculous all the time and no one knows who she really is. Why would this time be different? Ladybug could just show up in costume, explain what's up, and then hand off the earrings while using yet another miraculous.

Anyway, the Rena Rouge vs Chat Noir conflict is “resolved” by Rena Rouge being outed again (and I guess that matters this time), leading her to give up her miraculous so that Gabriel can’t steal it away, which of course leads Gabriel to steal it away and fully disempower Ladybug’s larger team, leaving Chat Noir her only teammate.

How satisfying! This is such good, character-driven story telling!

It’s not. This is plot contrivances to the max with no meaningful character beats, but we’re not here to talk about that. We’re here to do one of my favorite things: gush about a relevant Kim Possible episode! Today’s topic is episode 12 of season one: Pain King vs. Cleopatra, the episode that introduces Kim’s female BFF, Monique!

This was a bit of a shocker for me because I didn’t realize that Kim and Monique weren’t pre-series friends. Turns out that, much like Alya, Monique is a new girl, which isn’t a bad call. This was a nice way to delay Monique’s introduction for a few episodes so that the writers could focus on establishing Kim’s relationship with other key members of the cast like her partner, Ron. Spacing out your intros is the way to go whenever you can pull it off as it’s a kindness to your audience that keeps them from feeling overwhelmed, making it more likely that they’ll remember your cast.

The other, more important similarity between Alya and Monique is that, when Kim’s hero partner and life-long friend finds out about Monique, he is less than thrilled:

Kim: I barely got to see them. Right after I hooked up with Monique, the museum was robbed by some glowing-headed animal guy. Ron: Oh, that's nice. Ron: Wait a minute, who's Monique? Kim New friend, really great. Anyway, the thief stole an enchanted ancient talisman. Ron: Whoa, whoa, back up! How can I not know about a new friend? Kim: I met her at Club Banana, then again at the museum before I chased the glowing robber. Ron: So what's she like? Kim: The robber? Ron: The friend, Kim, the "new friend".

Throughout the episode, Kim and Monique continue to bond without Ron, leaving Ron feeling left out:

Ron: Seein' a pattern here, Rufus: Kim does her thing, I do my thing, and pretty soon - we're doing different things.

Which leads him to get a little territorial:

Kim Ron! What are you doing here? Ron: Can I dine with my best friend and her new friend? Kim: Uuh, Ron, Monique, and vice versa. Ron: Bearclaw? Monique: No, thanks, I'm vegetarian. Ron: Uhm, I'm pretty sure it's imitation bear? Kim: She's joking, Ron. Ron: Good one, hahaha, ha, good one. So, did Kim tell you that I'm her sidekick? Cause that role is definitely taken by me. Monique: Riiiight. Well, in... you know I better get to class. Later, Kim. Um, n-nice meeting you, Ron. Ron: Likewise, I'm sure! Kim: What is your problem? You're acting really weird. Ron: Well, let's see. You went to the museum with Monique, not me. Monique was with you this morning, not me. Hmm, pattern? Kim: Yeah. You. Weird. Ron: No, we're drifting apart because you're excluding me. Kim: I am not excluding you. It's just that you and Monique are... different.

Noticing some similarities to Miraculous here?

So how does Kim Possible resolve this conflict?

Well, the plot of this episode resolves around Kim Possible’s version of professional wrestling, the GWA. There’s a competition going on that Kim has no interest in watching (mood), but when Kim mentions the GWA to Monique:

Monique: Why didn't you bring [Ron] along? Kim: Unless someone put a waiter in a headlock, this is definitely not Ron's scene. Besides, he had a date with "Steel Toe". Monique: He scored tickets to Mayhem in Middleton? The GWA rocks! Kim: What?

It turns out that Monique and Ron have a shared interest! Multiple shared interests, in fact! Interests that Kim does not share:

Monique: You know, I still can't believe you met Pain King and Steel Toe. Ron: I can't believe you're into wrestling. Kim: I can't believe I know either one of you.

By the end of the episode, the conflict is resolved not with Kim having to pick a BFF or with Monique somehow being demoted, but by showing that this didn’t need to be a conflict at all. Kim can have multiple close friends that she shares different interests with without any of those friends being lesser. Those friends can, in turn, have their own friendships that don’t always involve her.

It’s a genuinely lovely resolution that makes me love this little friend group because it now has added complexity. Monique and Ron are friends in their own right! Kim is not the center of the universe in spite of her main character status!

I also love that Kim isn’t vilified for having other friends or portrayed as constantly leaving Ron out of things that he'd want to do in favor of Monique. Ron genuinely would not enjoy most of the things that the girls love to do together. At the same time, Ron’s feeling aren’t treated as totally irrational either and Kim even admits to ditching him. It’s a genuine, complex conflict that is super common when someone enters a new relationship be it platonic or romantic.

Obviously Kim Possible’s version of this conflict feels far less complex than Miraculous’ because Kim Possible understood that Ron should be Kim’s one-and-only partner, so his position was really never threatened. Monique does not want to be an action hero and is never given the sort narrative weight that elevates her to Ron’s level or higher, but that doesn't matter. The basic lesson here is still relevant and super important for the intended audience of both of these shows.

There did not need to be a Rena Rouge vs Chat Noir conflict that never got properly resolved. Miraculous could have made these two friends and no, Scarabella doesn't count because Chat Noir has no idea that Scarabella is Rena Rouge/Furtive. Their relationship ended at the end of Hack-San. He didn't even know that Rena Furtive was a thing until she was in the process of being benched and that's the problem.

Kim Possible is not a team show, Miraculous is, and yet Kim Possible has better team dynamics than Miraculous. Monique could have joined Kim's team at the end of Pain King vs. Cleopatra and it would have felt natural because both Kim and Ron had welcomed Monique and formed a genuine bond with her. This is a true friend group that Miraculous can only dream of even though they've been adding new superheroes since season two.

We're going into a season with a full, massive team and yet that team has no established dynamics on the hero side. It's not a functional team! None of these characters have meaningful relationships with each other as heroes save for Alya and Nino since they know each other’s secret identities. The only relationships Miraculous cares about are the various romances and everyone's relationship to Marinette and everyone suffers for it.

The show would not have been harmed by Rena Rouge, Chat Noir, and Ladybug being a team. It was the thing I kept think after watching the Kim Possible episode. Since the team is the end game, why aren't we seeing them? It would have been so nice to have Hack-San end with Ladybug introducing Chat Noir to Rena Furtive instead of a nonsense discussion about an issue the episode didn't even address.

[almacambiondaughterofsaleos]

Toxic Ships That Poisoned A Show

Because people say it's a straight person thing, but nope as some shows it's an all sexualities thing.

[essektheylyss]

I'm also still laughing that he really showed up, introduced himself as an Archivist of the Cobalt Soul, and then insinuated that they were going to go extrajudicially hunt down, capture, and "interrogate" a Cerberus Assembly Archmage. Sir, archivists do not do that kind of thing, least of all on their own, LEAST OF ALL with a bunch of random hooligans they were just sent to collect for an unrelated excursion. Quite honestly, that was the thing I kept going back to in evidence of, there is absolutely no way this is a legit archivist.

[unfortunately-a-miraculous-fan]

Chloe's sudden shift in character because Thomas realized they were making her a little too redeemable is SO funny to me. Like:

Season 1: Chloe is a regular, one-dimensional high school bully.

Season 2: Chloe is actually a bit more of a complex person than that, because nobody is pure evil. But she's still definitely an asshole.

Season 3: Chloe is a child who was neglected by her mother and spoiled by her father, making her into the brat she is today. Marinette as Ladybug shows Chloe a bit of kindness that she might not have fully deserved, and Chloe takes those words to heart, working to be a bit better over time. Progress is slow, but not impossible.

Season 4: Chloe is a cartoonishly evil villain who never gave even half a shit about anybody.

Season 5: Chloe just about ruined Marinette's entire life years before the show even started, and is the reason that Marinette stalks Adrien (See? It wasn't creepy after all. Stalking is justified sometimes!). Just trust me, this was definitely the plan from the very beginning.

[sophieabigail2021]

"How fandom react to criticism" wheel

[motherofplatypus]

No Closure For Abuse Victim?

It comes to my attention that all the abuse victims in the show never really got a closure with their abuser. In fact, most of them even had it worse.

Adrien never got to confront his dad as himself and call him out for his mistreatment. He lived his final days with his father seeing him as a monster that he is, and when Gabe died, he sees him as a hero.

Chloe never got to confront her mom either for neglecting her for YEARS, and when she met her, Audrey attacked her with verbal abuse. In the end, she had to live with her own abuser for some fucked up reasons.

Felix is a hard case bcs we never see if he confronted Colt or not, but from that avant-garde play, apparently he didn't. Colt just died, and that's about it.

The only one who gets to have a closure with their abuser, based on how TA and the writers see it, is Andre, by sending his daughter he never raised off with her abuser and kidnap someone else's daughter bcs she's better than your own.

Im not sure to put Marinette here or not with Chloe.

It's really messed up that the writers created these abused characters and never gave them a chance to heal from their mistreatment even after the first arc finale.

Well, that's just my opinion. Im most likely wrong about some of those points, so share your thoughts.

And speaking of mistreatment, please spare your time to sign this petition to kick israel from the UN and ban them from Nobel Ceremony for illegally colonizing and committing genocide upon the Palestinians. Over 17.000 children have been murdered by them in less than a year, children like Marinette and Adrien, and even younger than them. They put civilians inside a concentration camp like the Nazi did during WW2.

All that is necessary for evil to succeed is for good people to do nothing. No more silence, no more ignorance. End the occupation now!

[gale-gentlepenguin]

It doesnt really matter how the London special frames it.

Gabriel still won and continues to gaslight and manipulate his son while being able to be with his wife.

He did not die a hero.

He was/is/always will be a piece of shit.

[familyagrestefanblog]

Am like 10 seconds away from going on a whole ass detailed rant about Marinette in the "your dad's dead" scene immediately turning to lie her ass off in insanely uncalled for ways of making Adrien's abuser into a hero, but especially for having her claim that she was basically laying half dead beaten by Monarque on the ground, so Gabriel Agreste had to be the hero and sacrifice TWO LIVES to save Nathalie AND LADYBUG

I don't give a FUCK if she meant to say that. THATS what she claimed towards Adrien. She said that Monarque was too strong with too many Miraculous and he severely injured her so she couldn't stop him from taking the Miraculous. And then Gabriel Agreste had to stop Monarque last second from making the wish and instead used the wish to sacrifice Monarque's and his own life to save Nathalie AND LADYBUG.

I honestly dont care anymore if Marinette was scared of her orphaned boyfriend being upset with her for 5 damn minutes, that is some INSANE victimhood Marinette is willy-nilly claiming as her own to benefit from. This is a CERISE level of claiming victimhood just to get the person in front of you to sympathize with you in THEIR pain and loss, by you claiming that you almost met their dead parent's fate when you fucking DIDN'T.

It used to be common sense that when Protagonists do something like this the universe is gonna throw that shit back in their face. So sue me, yes, I wanna see that happen! This is insane and im glad Kagami drew a fucking line eventually.

Marinette did not go through the things she claimed she did just to make herself look like a bigger victim. But she doesn't GET to do that to such an offensive degree just so the victim isn't upset with her (especially not considering the excessive amounts of violence, insults and accusations Marinette dishes out and takes little accountability for)

She was not severely injured. She wasn't half dead on the ground, and no human life had to be sacrificed to save her. What the FUCK was that???

[nixthelapin]

Anyone else think Marinette’s new outfit is just really bad?

I can’t claim to have that great of an eye for fashion, but this just looks like a tacky performer costume to me- the tights, the jacket looking like a fake tux, right down to the tiny bow tie that’s just sitting on her shirt- rather than an outfit an actual person would wear, especially someone who’s biggest dream is to be a fashion designer. And I don’t really think the pink of her shorts go well with the brown-gray leggings, the colors just feel off to me.

I want to like it, I think it has aspects I enjoy, but overall it just doesn’t do it for me and I kinda hate it.

Idk am I going crazy here? I haven’t seen a ton of discussion about her new design, so it’s hard to say what the general opinion is, but even if the stuff I have seen, it’s usually excitement for it, nothing really negative (design-wise, not about the narrative or overall direction of the show lol). But I’d really like to hear what others think about it.

[jennrypan]

...I still think Marinettes kinda goofy for offering a second chance to GABRIEL AKA HAWMOTH..of all people...and yet..Chloe gets shipped off with her abusive mother.

Felix, the motherfucker who got people akumatized because?? Fuck it we ball ig. And theN GAVE THE MIRACULOUS TO HAWKMOTH for his on selfish reasons but nothing ever happens to him, he gets a girlfriend and he's just..cool now?? Ig?? Oh his dad was abusive so it's okay.. (but Chloes neglectful father gets to abandon her and chose a child that isn't his over her...)

Natalie, A WILLING PARTICIPATE IN GABRIELS NONSENSE ALL UNTIL RECENTLY GETS AWAY SCOTT FREE TOO. But Chloe..a CHILD..gets called evil consistently and the parents that made her life that don't get anything at all.

TOMOE. ANOTHER PARTICIPATE IN HAWKMOTHS NONSENSE. SOMEONE WHOS ALSO NEGLECTFUL AN CRUEL TO THEIR CHILD. Gets off Scott free too..BUT AGAIN..CHLOE..GETS SHIPPED OFF..TO LIVE WITH HER VERBALLY ABUSIVE MOTHER..

Interesting lesson for a kids show 🤨 very fucking interesting. You're really extremely evil unless you're doing it for..love??? Family?? Idk. No matter how many people you hurt, if you're doing it for LOOVE, it's okay 🥺

[a-flaming-idiot]

Thinking about how when Shadybug and Claw Noir are evil, they can be redeemed since they're traumatized kids being manipulated by an adult taking advantage of them. When Lila and Chloe are evil, they're irredeemable monsters who know exactly what they're doing and deserve what's coming to them.

[kathrahender]

One of the things I dislike most about fandoms is the hypocrisy of their fans. And this is about ships again, yes (it's about characters too ngl).

Every anti-Bakudeku/Catradora fan says things like "How can you ship couples like these? It's so abusive! It's disgusting! Catra/Bakugo were so mean towards Adora/Izuku! Catradora/Bakudeku is so toxic and you shouldn't like it!" and then, when talking about Hiccstrid people always love them together. Even if Astrid was also a bully to Hiccup. Even if her development was null (don't say she had development, her "redemption" arc was shit and she needed more time in screen and more scenes between her and Hiccup to change from "I hate all the dragons" to "I was wrong about them". And one scene with an OST called "Romantic Flight" is not enough to make her redemption believable). Talking about development, do I really have to say that you hate Catradora/Bakudeku, but at least Catra and Bakugo apologized to Adora and Izuku? Astrid didn't say sorry to Hiccup for bullying him/hurting him. And you should be aware of that.

Bakugo and Catra didn't redeem in one day, they didn't get up one day and decided to be nicer. No, they had to work in their redemption and they also had to work in their relationship with the people they hurt (Izuku and Adora). Astrid didn't do that. All she needed to change was flying in a dragon with the person she used to hate.

Having all of that in mind, tell me, which relationship would be more healthy, logical and believable? The ones where the bully had to work hard to make amends for their mistakes, to heal their scars to make it better for the MC? The ones where the bully apologized to their victim, to the people they hurt? Or the one where all it took to change from "I hate you so much" to "I like you" was one scene, and they didn't even apologize for being a bully/being a bad person? Think about that.

And think about another thing too. A girl hurting a boy is bad. "But she-" No. "But she's not being cruel and she-" Enough. Don't fucking justify female-on-male violence. Violence is violence. If you hate Bakugo/Catra so much for hurting Izuku/Adora, then treat Astrid the same way, because she was not an angel before changing. She's not innocent. She was a bully too. And if you despise Bakugo/Catra's past actions, despise Astrid's past actions too.

Where I also saw Double Standard in media is in shows where there's a female character stalking a male character. Two examples that come to my mind right now are Hinata Hyuga from Naruto and Marinette Dupain-Cheng from Miraculous Ladybug.

The thing about them is that a lot of people love them. A lot of people love a female character stalking a male character. Dear God, Marinette learned the daily schedule of Adrien, and she even traveled to another country for him. Because she couldn't bear thinking he was in another country where she couldn't see what was he doing. That's not freaking normal, you guys. "She was a girl" "She didn't know what was she doing" "She's just in love". Excuse me- What. the. hell. Okay. So you're saying you're okay with a girl being so jealous that everytime her "crush" talks to a girl she needs to be around. You're okay with a girl entering her crush's house without permission (Do you know that's a crime, right?). You're okay with a girl having her bedroom full of photos of her crush (and I'm not talking about a fictional character from a show she likes. I'm talking about a real person. Because in Miraculous Ladybug's world, Adrien is Marinette's classmate, not a character from a show). I'm sorry, but if you think that's okay, there's something wrong with you. People can like someone and have a crush, sure, but what she has is an obsession. What she's doing is not normal. (And she can do that in the show, after all she's a character, but don't act like she's a nice person and an innocent person because she isn't. And definitely don't see her actions as a normal thing).

People, please, don't think what she's doing is "iconic" or something like that. If you're watching this show, please, don't do the same as her with your crush because is awful and disgusting. She's not "cute" for doing this. She has a problem, I'm being serious.

If she had a better love story with Adrien, like she did in the movie, I would understand the Adrinette ship because in the new movie it's just beautiful and wholesome and it's actually healthy. But when it comes to the show, the Adrinette ship can't be nothing more than toxic. So stop acting like Marinette's actions towards Adrien are okay (Yes, Adrien's actions towards Ladybug weren't okay neither, but this post is about female characters).

What Hinata Hyuga did -in comparison with Marinette- is not that bad, but even then, following her crush (Naruto Uzumaki) everytime he's with his friends/classmates is not nice. It's not cute. It's not something people should do. And the Naruhina ship honestly makes no sense. Okay, I get it. It's the type of romance we all want to have. We all want our crush to fall in love with us. We all want to have a relationship with the person we used to have a crush on. But if you want to include that trope if your story, if you want them to end up together in a show/book/movie, give them development. The ship has to feel natural.

We have to feel/see the chemitry. And I saw (and still see) no chemistry between Naruto and Hinata. Sasunaru, on the other hand, has a lot of emotional moments together and moments when they bond (their chemistry is right there). And it's not for my own preference, but they would have made a better couple. Mostly because they shared more screen time with each other. Even though Shikanaru and Gaanaru are also good options for a canon ship. Because they also had chemistry. But Naruto's love for Hinata in my opinion didn't feel natural. It was forced.

After all of this, let me say something more. You probably don't care about a girl stalking a boy in fiction. You're probably like "She's not doing anything wrong" "She's a teenager" "Stop being judgmental, she's a good character" "She's a nice person". If what they do it's okay for you, let me ask you a question. What if their gender was reversed? Yeah. Imagine if Marinette and Hinata weren't girls. Imagine if they were boys. Imagine if a boy went to another country to control the actions of another girl. Imagine if a boy entered his crush's house without permission. Imagine if a boy stalked the girl he likes to see if she's talking to another boys. Imagine if a boy had pictures of the girl he likes in his bedroom. What would you think then? Oh- You would think it's disgusting? It would be disgusting for you, right? Why? Because it's a boy?

People, have this in mind:

👏👏👏 If a boy does something bad and a girl does the same thing they both need to be treated the same way 👏👏👏

A girl hitting a boy isn't funny. It shouldn't be played for fun. As well as a boy hitting a girl. Neither of them is funny. And neither of them can be justified.

A girl stalking a boy isn't funny. As well as a boy stalking a girl. Neither of them is funny. And neither of them can be justified.

That's why I ask you to stop being two-faced. If you despise someone's actions, you despise someone's actions, whether it is a boy or a girl. You want equality? Then fucking stop with the double standard.

A bad action is a bad action, no matter who makes it. Period.

[stanlunter]

"Adrian and Kagami broke up bc Kagami didn't like silly Adrian, his real personality!"

Litterally Kagami with Adrian:

They really had to turn Kagami into ooc and destroy all her development only to make Adrinette canon, while ladybug/marinette was litterally the one who hated Chat Noire being silly and unserious