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wisdom-devotee · 2 days ago

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Beginner’s Guide to Hellenic Polytheism

I KNOW this is a really long post but my intention was to just note down everything that I think is important for beginners and that’s A LOT. It took me forever to learn some of these things but they’re so important, so buckle in. I hope this helps some people.

If I’ve missed anything, please feel free to let me know what you’d like me to add. I’ve been working on this for two days, so if there are typos, I’m so sorry.

The sections I cover here are key terms, mythic literalism, deity work vs deity worship, FAQs and General Advice.

Some Key Terms

Hellenic Polytheism: Hellenic means Greek, and Polytheism means worshipping multiple gods. So, Hellenic Polytheism is the worship of the Greek Pantheon which is also referred to as the Theoi. The religion is also referred to as Hellenism, Hellenismos, or abbreviated to Helpol. The people who practice could be referred to as Hellenic Polytheists, Hellenic Pagans, or Hellenists.

Hellenistic: you may see the term ‘Hellenistic Polytheism’, but this is my PSA to ask people not to use that, as it’s incorrect. Hellenistic refers to a specific period of Andient Greece, from 323-32 BC, and your worship is almost definitely not specifically focused on that period.

Ouranic: this is the term for the heavenly gods. Be aware that there is some overlap between Ouranic and Chthonic deities. Whether a deity is Ouranic or Chthonic will effect things like prayer position (palms up for Ouranic) and whether offerings can be eaten or drank (yes for Ouranic)

Chthonic: this is the term for the underworld gods. Be aware that there is some overlap between Ouranic and Chthonic deities. Whether a deity is Ouranic or Chthonic will effect things like prayer position (palms down for Chthonic) and whether offerings can be eaten or drank (no for Chthonic) side note - when it comes to hero worship, I personally treat them as if they’re chthonic.

Kharis: this means reciprocity, and also refers to the relationship formed between us and the gods. Arguably the most important aspect of Hellenic Polytheism is that when you ask something of a deity, you must give an offering in return. Size of what you’re asking for should correspond to size of the offering, or if you’ve given many little offerings without asking for anything you can use that as why you should be given the Big Thing.

Xenia: guest-friendship, hospitality. The idea that any stranger could be a God in disguise, so treat everyone respectfully. It’s an Ancient Greek social custom that a lot of Hellenic Polytheists see as important today. Simply put, in modern times this most often just means being kind to strangers. There’s a lot more to it than that though, so look here. Know that Xenia is a two-way thing, so you have to be generous to your guests but they must also respect your home.

Eusebeia: basically, piety. Respecting the Gods. This is really the only ��rule’ of Hellenic polytheism. There’ll be different ideas of what is considered respectful, but as long as you have good intentions and don’t do anything you KNOW would be offensive, you’re okay. Don’t insult the gods (any of them), don’t ask for anything without offering something else, and don’t treat yourself as equal to or higher than the theoi.

Hubris: excessive pride or dangerous overconfidence, often the fatal flaw of a lot of Greek heroes in mythology. Specifically, this is when you act better than or equal to the gods. You are not.

Libations: a type of offering, in the form of a liquid. Usually poured on the ground but can be drank (unless it’s to a chthonic deity) if you’re a closeted Hellenic polytheist who can’t just pour some liquid on the floor every time you want to offer it. My advice for food offerings/libations to chthonic deities if you’re not openly a hellenist is to offer leftovers, rotting food, or something you otherwise know will go to waste.

Altar: traditionally a place used to put physical offerings and food offerings for deities. Some people have an altar to each deity, some people have one altar for all their deities. These can be as big or as small as you want. People may use shelves, drawers, boxes, windowsills, etc, and I don’t even use mine for food offerings, only for physical ones because I usually eat the food offering (I don’t like the idea of wasting food). My altars also just serve as a dedicated space for that deity in my life.

Hero worship: this is the worship of ‘heroes’ in Greek mythology, which includes literally any mortal. For example, I worship Odysseus of Ithaca, Penelope of Ithaca, Helen of Sparta, and Tiresias of Thebes. I’ve been asked a lot about how hero worship differs from deity worship, and you can find that answer here.

Devotee: there is a lot of disagreement on what the difference between a devotee and worshipper is, but for me, I’m devoted to Athena as I feel I have the closest bond with Her of all my deities and I honour Her the most. This partly comes from my feeling that She has been with me for much longer than I’ve been aware of Her presence, and that also so much of who I am and what I value comes under Her domains.

Patron: this basically means that if part of your identity comes under the domain of a deity, then that deity is your patron. There can be occupational patrons (like Hermes is the patron of merchants) or to do with things like gender (Hera is a patron for women. Yes this includes trans women, transphobes are not welcome here.) You can have more than one patron, and you don’t need to worship all of the deities who would be considered your patron.

Epithets: these are titles given to deities. There are two types - cult epithets, which describe the aspect of a deity you’re focusing on (like Athena Ageleia, meaning ‘Protector of the People’) since they have a lot of domains and it’s important in prayers to specify what you want. Then there’s poetic epithets, which are adjectives, often used to compliment a deity. I like using these to make my prayers seem more sophisticated to be honest (example: white-armed Hera)

Unverified Personal Gnosis: gnosis is spiritual knowledge. If it’s unverified, that means that it has no basis in historical sources as far as the person is aware, and they don’t know anybody else who has the same experience. You will often see this abbreviated as UPG. Personally, I think UPG is really valid, considering a lot of things are unknown to us due to the loss of sources overtime.

Shared Personal Gnosis: gnosis is spiritual knowledge. Like UPG, Shared Personal Gnosis (often abbreviated as SPG) doesn’t have any historical backing as far as the people who believe it are aware, but it is shared by multiple different people and therefore seen by some as more valid than UPG (though I’d argue that all SPG is UPG before you know that other people agree)

Verified Personal Gnosis: gnosis is spiritual knowledge. It being verified means that there are historical sources to back up the belief, and this is commonly abbreviated to VPG. You are more likely to come across the terms UPG than SPG or VPG, and most of what Helpol people on tumblr discuss is UPG, even if they don’t state that directly.

Reconstructionist: these are people who try to ‘reconstruct’ the ancient religion, recreating ancient rituals as best they can and doing things as close as they can get to how the ancient Greeks did based on our historical sources. An important note here is that we will never be able to do this perfectly and that’s okay. For example, I would hope none of us are making animal sacrifices.

Revivalist: these are people who try to recreate the ‘spirit’ of the religion, though not with the exact practices that the Ancient Greeks used. Revivalists are more concerned with the values and beliefs of the ancient religion than they necessarily are with how it was practiced. I personally feel like I fall somewhere between the two, but I also think both are really valid!

Mythic Literalism

Mythic Literalism is the idea that the stories we see in any mythology actually occurred. In Hellenic Polytheism, this is not how we tend to look at the Greek myths. And it’s not how the ancients saw them either.

Greek mythology has always been interpreted as symbolic. For example, Hades kidnapping Persephone is mostly accepted to be about mothers in Ancient Greece being separated from their daughters once they marry. It does not mean that Hades, the God, kidnapped Persephone, the Goddess, and that people who worship Hades are evil because Hades is a kidnapper. This myth can also be interpreted through the lens that death separates families.

This is important because the Gods all do things that are, by today’s standards, incredibly immoral - and a lot of them were even immoral in antiquity. It is important to not take the myths literally to avoid feelings of guilt over worshipping something horrific.

And yes, this applies to Zeus. He is not a rapist, He’s a male fertility god. In myths he does bad things because he represents kings and kings can abuse their power. Things like that.

But it’s still good to research the myths! It’s good to learn the ways in which these deities were understood and what their domains can represent. Myths also help us to feel more familiar with our deities. Additionally the myths tell us not to be hubristic, and things like the Iliad tell us about Oaths and Offerings and Xenia. These are important parts of helpol.

Deity Work vs Deity Worship

I’m going to preface this section by saying that I worship deities, I don’t work with them, so even though I’m doing research on this please take everything I say about deity work with a grain of salt and note that the rest of this post might apply more to worship, because that’s what I’m familiar with. Lastly, my intention here is not to place a value judgement on either type, I just want to try and make a full explanation for anyone out there looking for one, since I’ve found it to be kind of difficult to find.

From my understanding, deity work is common among witches, and usually involves asking a deity to help with your spells or other forms of magick. When you work with a deity, you are asking them to mentor you in a sense, and there’s often a specific goal in mind that they’re hoping to achieve with help of the deity. Additionally, because of that goal-oriented relationship, deity work has deadlines(?). Like, once you’ve achieved the goal you had, the deity will stop working with you

There are similarities, as both seem to involve reciprocity and offerings, and both involve cultivating a relationship with deities, even if the nature of that relationship and the reason for offering is different.

Deity worship doesn’t have a set end-goal. You CAN stop actively worshipping a deity, but this doesn’t usually come after a specific goal is achieved because there isn’t a goal in mind. Worship is more about honouring the deity. Khakis is built out of admiration, respect and love for the deity. This is why we pray, make offerings, etc. it’s all to honour the gods. We do ask for things in deity worship, but that’s not the entire point like it is for deity work.

FAQs

Do I need to be called to worship/work with a deity?

Nope! You are 100% allowed to reach out first. You can do that by praying or making an offering. Remember to research the deity first, so you know what epithets to use, know what symbols they’re associated with, have ideas for offerings, etc. Also, if a deity calls to you, you are not obligated to worship them. Acknowledge them and move on if you don’t have time, energy, or interest in worshipping them at that time.

Where can I find information on deities?

The main site that I think everyone uses is theoi.com, which has really in-depth pages on a lot of deities, with their myths, lists of epithets, family trees, etc. it’s a really useful resource!

Do I need an altar?

No. They’re nice to have but you don’t need one straight away. It took me two years of worshipping to get any altars, and even now I don’t really use them how you’re ‘supposed’ to.

Are there any sins in Hellenic Polytheism?

No, just don’t disrespect a god (don’t disrespect any of them, even the ones you don’t worship should be respected). Also don’t show hubris.

Deity X and Deity Y don’t get along, but I want to worship both, what do I do?

Disregard mythic literalism and remember this is a polytheistic religion. The gods know they are not the only god you will be worshipping, and they are chill with that. If you really want, you can separate their altars if you have an altar per deity, but it’s up to you completely.

Other General Advices

This post is a starting point, nothing here is very in-depth. Do more research if anything on here is still confusing to you. Feel free to ask people here on tumblr, I’m sure most of us would be happy to help.

Don’t believe everything you see on tiktok/tumblr. We’re all still learning, a lot of us are wrong about stuff. Do other research and let yourself form your own beliefs. As I’ve said, even parts of this post should be taken with a grain of salt. I’m no expert, I just want to try to help.

If you’re going to make your own posts about helpol stuff, advice I’ve seen before that really stuck with me is ‘keep some things scared’. You don’t have to post everything. I, at the moment, don’t post my prayers or photos of my altars. Those things are what I keep scared, you should have your own things. They don’t have to be the same as mine.

You have nothing to be afraid of. The gods can be intimidating when you’re starting out, but they know we don’t have as much readily available information about this stuff as the ancient greeks did. They also know you’re new, and they will be patient with you. Don’t be scared.

You can offer anything. Digital offerings are as valid as physical offerings. Devotional acts are valid too.

Know that you will never be done learning. Accept this and commit to trying to learn anyway.

Know how to tell signs from the gods apart from just General Happenings of the world. Here is a good post on that. I have a series on my blog tagged #signs from deities, to show the kinds of things I personally recognise to be signs and to show how frequently/infrequently those can occur. I would suggest keeping your own record of those, whether or not you share it is up to you. The reason is to reflect on your journey and, if you ever doubt your gods, you can look at those lists to remind yourself of how they’ve been there for you previously.

Doubt is healthy, it’s okay to doubt things. Don’t feel bad for this, the gods understand. Let yourself question everything you feel the need to question.

Similarly, anger is healthy. It’s okay to be angry at the gods, but don’t disrespect them because you’re upset. Handle your anger well. You won’t get punished for being upset.

The Hellenic Gods aren’t generally believed to be all-knowing, however it is believed that they can hear us when we call their names, which is why prayers start with invocation of a deity’s name and an epithet.

#hellenic polytheism #hellenism #hellenic deity worship #theoi #hero worship #deity work #hellenic paganism #kharis #baby hellenic polytheist #beginner’s guide to helpol #greek polytheism #polytheist #mythic literalism #hellenismos #resources

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dehliadelights · 2 days ago

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Lyric is rambling about Epic the musical whauh woah

spoilers read more just in case you havent heard it yet. also trigger warning for typical greek mythology references like rape, torture, ect.

Not Sorry For Loving You

I'm not a fan of this song! I've never been a fan of the slow romantic songs in the musical, and I never particularly liked Love in Paradise either so. But I do like the parallels between the two songs, and Calypso's story is one that facinates me because she was punished for assisting her father Atlas and the other Titans during the Titan war. She's literally doomed by the narrative.

Dangerous

Sad in the start, reminecent of Full Speed Ahead, but with the sadder, more melancholic instrumental that would fit with The Underworld. When Hermes enters with "All you have to do is not open this bag", it's a direct parallel to Aeolus' in Keep Your Friends Close, which leads to Odysseus bring betrayed by his crew, but now it's just Ody alone.

Odysseus sounds so tired, like he's a man being beaten down at every turn, but his voice perks up when Hermes arrives; The last time Hermes showed up, he gave Odysseus the Moly flower to drain Circe's power, which lead to his victory. There's a spark of hope in his tone, and that's clear.

Odysseus sounds mostly more awake and like himself as he speaks with Hermes, who's his usual silly (/pos) self. Hermes' whole demeaner is a bit more serious than it was in Wouldn't You Like, with less of his jokes and general humor, he's giggling but it feels like he's laughing almost out of pity for Odysseus, the man who's been beaten down so badly.

"Well, it's a little bit dangerous, my friend, you'll need a mindset change for this, you cannot get away with safe, for this, you wanna get home? Put it all on the line"

Hermes is trying to tell Odysseus that he needs to leave his regrets and his guilt behind in order to succeed, that in order to get home, he needs to basically wipe the blood from his hands. He needs to be smart, clever, quick, like he was when he fought the Trojans, like when he tricked Polyphemus to drink wine with lotus in it. But he also needs to be merciless, be ruthless.

Hermes tells Odysseus to follow the North Star, which serves as a guiding factor for many sailors. The North Star is part of the Constellation Ursa Minor, and in Greek Mythology, Ursa Major and Ursa Minor refer to the story of Callisto and her son Arcas. In some version in the myth, Callisto was a follower of Artemis, Maiden Goddess of the Hunt, though was raped by Zeus (disguised as Artemis). This caused Callisto to break Artemis' Celibacy rule, and she was turned into a bear (In varying versions of the Myth, it can be by Hera, out of jealousy, Zeus, to placate Hera's rage, or Artemis, out of anger of Callisto breaking the celibacy rule). She gave birth to her son Arcas, who grew up to be a hunter himself, which eventually lead him to find his mother as a bear and attempt to kill her, thinking she was a wild bear. Before she could die, either Zeus or Artemis decided to turn Callisto and Arcas into constellations, Ursa Major and Ursa Minor. This really doesn't have anything to do with the song, but I just really like sharing my Greek Mythology brainrot. Also it's another tale of the gods ruining the lives of their followers.

Anyways, Hermes directs Odysseus to follow the North Star without hesitation, to fight any monsters that attack, and then we get to the wind bag!

Hermes says "Keep the bag closed if you wanna get home, sir", reminding Odysseus of the fact that he was alone now, that he was the only one that he could trust, and the Winions make their return, the melody and tone a direct, albiet more melancholic reference to Keep Your Friends Close. The Winions sing "It was meant to stop you by design" as a reference to Poseidon's storm, which he'd created with the desire to kill Odysseus for harming his son.

Odysseus regains his typical confidence and hubris by now, and sings that "I'm gonna use ruthlessness" as a direct callback to Poseidon's song from the Ocean saga, Ruthlessness. In the end, Odysseus thanks Hermes as he did back during Wouldn't You Like, but instead of Hermes replying, "Don't thank me, friend, you very may well die" like last time, he sings, "Don't thank me, friend, I'm not the one who fought for you", referencing Athena's trials in God Games.

Charybdis

This is actually the first time I'm listening to this song in full, so new songs yippee, but I'm not hearing many references to the other songs.

Odysseus' typical hubris is fully back now, pride and confidence echoing as he taunts Charybdis due to already knowing the sea monster's attacks thanks to Hermes.

Odysseus finally manages to see the beach of Ithaca, so close to his son and wife, the only minor callback to The Horse and The Infant where he calls for Penelope.

I do like the leadin for Get in the Water, though. Odysseus realizing what was happening.

Get in the Water

I love this song, it was one of the first clips I heard from Epic, next to Warrior of the Mind! Steven Rodrigeus did a fantastic job as Poseidon, and you can tell he absolutely adored the role and put his heart into it. He actually sounds livid, like Jorge had offended him personally, and I love that for actors/singers.

Get in the Water starts out similarly to Ruthlesness, with the raging storms and angry waters, albiet without the crew's voices calling out to Poseidon, making it more eerie.

"There you are...

Coward."

Poseidon's voice is full of irritation, like an irate child having his toy taken away. He's angry that Odysseus managed to get away last time, using the wind bag to escape, and he didn't want it to happen again. His voice is almost eerily calm a couple of times he orders him to get in the water, like he was on his last nerve with Odysseus, and it shows. Every lyric shows how Poseidon is feeling, rage and mercilessness towards Odysseus.

"Maybe you could learn to forgive?"

"...no."

A god doesn't need to do anything, he doesn't want to give a mortal the time of day, after everything he's done to disrespect him. And throwing him to the sea, letting him drown, leading to...

Six Hundred Strike

OKAY SO I originally thought that Get in the Water was going to be my favorite UNTIL I saw an animatic for Six Hundred Strike.

youtube

It's this one. This is my favorite. THE SYMBOLISM, THE IMAGERY, EVERYTHING ABOUT IT MAKES ME FOAM AT THE MOUTH.

I enjoyed Duvetbox's animatics beforehand, but this one specifically shows the absolute care they put into the animatics they make, the attention to detail and willingness to follow their own heart in their thoughts.

First off, Odysseus in the water, trying to grab at the wind bag desperately for a way to escape being dragged to the depths, a call back to the way he used the wind bag to escape originally in Ruthlessness.

"I don't think you get it; I can't afford to die, because I will get back to my son, and I will get back to my WIFE!"

Odysseus is using his cleverness to fight, using the wind bag to serve as a weapon, deflecting and escaping all of Poseidon's attacks using it. Only one weapon draws the God of the Sea's Ichor (God Blood), being Poseidon's own trident. This leads Odysseus to clash open the wind bag (With a picture of Aeolus in the sky, since they're the wind god). It catches Poseidon off guard, and he taunts that Odysseus wouldn't get home because he released Poseidon's storm.

Odysseus uses Poseidon's spear to hurt Poseidon, knowing he couldn't kill him, but could torture him. His words are full of sorrow, regret, and vengence as he attacks, and Duvetbox does a fantastic job at portraying this in their animatic.

"After everything you've done, how will you sleep at night?"

"Next to my wife."

#epic the musical #epic the vengeance saga #lyrical ranting about music #AHDJIAJS #greek mythology #Youtube

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bansheeoftheforest · 3 days ago

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more thoughts! this time even more loose points that is mostly about Anubis' stay at camp half-blood

Also! Everyone is very welcome to add onto this, send questions/suggestions for the au, etc! :D I also do have the urge to turn this into a fic but that is quite unlikely since i haven't read any of the books since i was. 12 (Same as before, eventual updates will be found in the reblogs until I come up with a good AU tag!)

I know that realistically, this lil au would follow the plots of the book(s) but I also cannot for the life of me remember more about the third book other than "demigods find the hades kids and then Bianca dies" so at this point this is just me throwing out whatever feels nice between my brain wrinkles.

You know who would have been the first one to figure out that Anubis is an egyptian god? Rachel, but she doesn't show up properly until multiple books later, at which point he definitely would have been revealed. She could have taken one look at him and notice that he is both a god and definitely not (entirely) greek, and then promptly pull him aside and demand answers. I think she would agree to keep quiet about his secret but also would find some way to tease him about it.

It could possibly be Annabeth that figures him out first but I also do not really think she would have any reason to suspect that he is an non-greek god, just perhaps not entirely human/demigod-y. The more time Annabeth spends trying solve whatever tf is up with Anubis, the more happy he is that there are no demigods of Thoth.

I also assume Hades kids don't typically end up at the camp since there is no Hades cabin and all, which means that Chiron and Dionysos either A) have absolutely 0 idea why Anubis came along with the other demigods, or B) they do know what he have been up to, but decide he isn't enough of a threat to have to be dealt with.

(I HC that Anubis is very charming and respectful to elder/higher ranking gods, so I could imagine that Dionysos was sceptical until Anubis like. Bowed and greeted him with "Lord Dionysos" and shit, to which he was totally on board with letting him stay at the camp).

Since the "claim your damn kids and pay your child support" oath isn't taken until the last book, I don't think Hades would claim any of the siblings until like. He has threatened both Zeus and Poseidon to the point of compliance, if even then, so Anubis kinda has to balance not being suspicious, not seeming like he knows to much, making sure the kids' death abilities don't go haywire, and also reassuring them that no, their godly parent doesn't hate them, they (the gods in general) are just weird.

I am very inbetween no one suspecting anything weird with any of the siblings, or the campers thinking Anubis specifically is just really uncanny for some reason. Like, first of all, he claims to be a 16 year old demigod, which is rare in itself and especially so with no prior contact to Camp Half-Blood, and secondly, he probably hates lying outright bc of his whole work with Maat so like every other sentence sounds like he is hiding something because he has to lie but he doesn't want to, and he also probably doesn't really know how. Not to even mention the fact that he is the most intimidating out of these 70+ year old siblings in the first place.

NGL, I think he would try to keep Bianca from joining the hunters of Artemis, only because. Well. she is 12 and has absolutely 0 training in her godly powers or weaponry/fighting at all. Whether or not he is successful in convincing her to join the lesbian commune when she is older is an entirely different story. But hey, if she does and she still dies, he can feel really guilty about it!

No matter if it is PJO or actual mythology, I am always convinced Anubis and Hermes are really good friends, so I do find it funny to imagine Anubis having to bunk with the children of one of his best friends or exes. Although I think out of all the demigods (other than Nico and Bianca) he would like the Hermes kids most.

Anubis would still put most of his focus on the siblings/Nico, but I also feel like Dionysos and Chiron would still tell him that, if he is going to stay at the camp with the Di Angelos, he has to do what the campers does and follow their schedules. Imagine being an egyptian god of death and funerals but now you are a babysitter doing arts and crafts or playing capture the flag with like. Children.

I also quite like the thought of like. How Anubis would be found out. Did Bianca and Nico get suspicious when he keeps disappearing to talk privately to Chiron/Mr. D/Hades? Do they assume he knows something because, before CHB, he claimed to know quite a lot about their father's "testament"? Do the other campers just get really really suspicious? Did he do the classic folly of "I have to play fighting games with children and while I am good, I am not that good and oh shit they see that my blood is quite literally liquid gold. Whoops."? Is he forced to reveal the truth on Hades' orders, or because he has to deal with whatever the fuck is going on with the egyptian pantheon? Or did Annabeth simply figure out what he is and confront him about it?

(Honestly there could be a big chance he just got really fucking tired, stayed in his jackal-form for a while, and Annabeth decided the only reason a black jackal would be at camp could be an egyptian god infiltrating said camp, and technically she is right).

I also do like, in the very small chance that Hades decides to claim his kids, since Zeus and Poseidon know he would murder the fuck out of what is left of their children if they tried to hurt them, he also claims Anubis to keep up appearances for the time being. Like eventually the entire "I got the egyptian god of death to babysit my kids" thing turned into "well, I guess I am fighting for custody over the egyptian god of death".

With the above point, I do love Anubis being super duper confused about it because THAT was definitely not part of the plan. And it is not like he can explain to anyone why he is so confused when some might already have assumed he knew who their godly parent was.

Honestly the thought of Anubis doing the equivalent of attending kindergarten to keep the Di Angelo siblings safe is quite funny to me.

Still refusing to reread PJO/TKC but it is still infesting my brain so woe crossover au be upon yall

Au where Anubis casually gets assigned to be Bianca's and Nico's older brother, anyone?

(messy points below, mostly from Anubis' pov coz he is my pookie)

Like, once the other Egyptian gods start dropping like flies because the magicians are imprisoning them, assuming they may also go after Anubis, he turns to Hades as a very very very last resort because, well, he would like to not be imprisoned for all eternity, thank you very much. Hades agrees on the condition that Anubis looks after his demigods, since he otherwise really isn't to any use of him, which Anubis accepts. So, Anubis is basically the Hades/Pluto demigods' divine babysitter in exchange for some protection from the magicians who may or may not also want to imprison him.

I shall say that this either works bc A) Hades kids radiate enough death so that he can be around them without a host or B) it is all just bureaucracy so when the rest of the Egyptian gods are gone those rules simply do not really apply.

Anyways, once the Big Three ProphecyTM rolls around and Maria Di Angelo kicks the bucket, Anubis is left in charge of making sure the Di Angelo siblings survive, taking them to and staying with them at the Lotus Casino and the different schools that Hades moves them around to, either as their "older brother"/guardian or as their pet dog that the authorities simply don't bat an eye at.

The siblings, with their memories absolutely fucked up, simply accepts that they either have a brother, a dog, an older brother who is occasionally a dog, or a dog that only conveniently shows up when their brother isn't there and vice versa.

And since I haven't read any RR books since I was 12 and I never read the HOO series, I can't really talk much about the logistics from here on out but. I have some thoughts in general.

Anubis makes sure that he takes the majority of the responsibilities, so that Bianca can be a little more happy and a little less stressed than she would have been if she was alone looking after her little brother.

He also happily distracts Nico when Bianca needs a break, he can genuinely listen to Nico ramble about whatever for hours, remembers it quite well and can return the conversation, which Bianca rarely has energy for.

(He was the exact same when he was young and wants to make sure Nico has someone that listens to him)

Genuinely cannot rest until he makes sure the siblings are fine and safe, which becomes a bit of a problem when Bianca goes on her first and last quest, and even more of a problem when he is more stuck in the Brooklyn House and he has to keep contacting Nico before he allows himself or Walt to rest as a result of that.

He is so so so so SO protective of the siblings. He is absolutely ready to die or kill for them. He is not a fighter, more often than not a pacifist, but when it comes to them he is the first to throw hands.

Also him absolutely being ready to kill the demigods that find the siblings at the military school coz he is so used to the "any demigod or magician is here to kill one of us and I have to protect them at all costs" mode that he has been kinda stuck in for the last 70 or so years, minimum.

He is merely an older sibling running on the equivalent of 3 hours of sleep and 2 strong coffees, which really doesn't help the situation once shit starts going down in Brooklyn/the Egyptian pantheon.

Speaking of the Brooklyn House. After being a Divine BabysitterTM for like 2000 years he genuinely cannot get rid of those base instincts, which ends up with him fussing over the Kanes/Walt/Zia and the rest of the initiates because those are CHILDREN and they need to REST and be SAFE and EAT PROPERLY and TAKE YOUR DAMN VITAMINES, WALT.

Because of those 2000 years of babysitting, Anubis is genuinely amazing with kids. You'd think they'd be scared by him, but no. He is the first one they run to when they scraped their knee and need a band aid and a hug.

He also 100% stares right into Percy's and Will's souls the moment he finds out Nico has/had crushes on them. Despite being raised in an entirely different time he definitely is a "no dating until you are at least 25 otherwise I might have a heart attack" sibling and he is not letting some random demigod break his lil brother's heart. He accepts Will well enough though coz he makes Nico laugh which in the end is the most important thing.

Will might actually be more intimidated by Anubis than Hades but that doesn't stop him. Nico is his babygirl and he knows Anubis is (probably) more bark than bite (most of the time).

No matter if Hades allows him to like. stop being a babysitter once the gods are restored and Ma'at is balanced and all, Anubis still sticks around and checks in on Nico (and eventually Hazel). He gets antsy if he hasn't heard from them at least once a day.

He probably has a good base relationship with Jason and Reyna (bc both are protective older siblings when it comes to Nico) but he keeps Percy at a distance ever since Bianca's death (not that he blames him). But he isn't particularly close to any of them, as his priorities lay with Nico, Hazel, and the Brooklyn House.

Assuming Anubis doesn't like. Introduce himself to the greeks as "Anubis" and instead says he is someone else, I have absolutely no idea when or if he would ever tell any of the greek demigods what he truly is. But I suppose Nico would eventually find out that his older brother actually isn't related to him at all, or even from the greek pantheon, and instead only happened to become his older brother as a favour to Hades. Depending on how he finds out he definitely could get upset but I like to believe he sorta figures eventually, and is just happy Anubis genuinely cares for him.

I also like to think that the greek gods they meet when the demigods take the siblings from the school to camp half-blood, just gives Anubis A LookTM. Either they are fully aware he is protecting the Hades kids or they think an Egyptian god is just casually hanging out with some random demigods. Which must certainly be a sight to behold.

Can yall for a moment imagine being the Kane siblings, trying to get the feather of truth from the god of death to avoid the impending apocalypse, who then says "sorry I am mostly on babysitting duty so I can't really help yall more than this, good luck tho."

Walt who meets Nico and is so conflicted because in one way he is slightly weirded out by this tiny depressed gremlin, but in another way the Anubis PartTM of him is just going "protect protect protect protect", which is a weird first impression.

One of the Kane siblings would be interested in Mythomagic, I just know it. Either Sadie coz it is funky or Carter bc it is nerdy. Either way, Nico has at least one Kane to bond with bc of it.

Nico just has the ultimate diplomatic immunity because he can go between Camp Half-blood, Camp Jupiter, and the Brooklyn House basically as he pleases.

On a completely different topic, the majority of Nico's wardrobe is just shit he has stolen from Anubis, he just lets it happen, in part because it is not like he as a god has a limited wardrobe, and in part bc Nico is absolutely adorable when he drowns in Anubis' jackets bc they are too big for him.

Also, Anubis helping Nico train his death magic, and teaching him the easiest ways to build endurance while using it.

Frankly the thought of the rest of the gods being banished, imprisoned, in exile or attempting to free themselves while Anubis is playing babysitter is very funny to me in general. Imagine being Isis or Osiris and attempting to ask your nephew/son what he did during the 2000 years yall were imprisoned and he goes "I took a side job as a babysitter to pay the bills".

Honestly I might reblog this with more thoughts eventually. They are all just so pookie.

#pjo #percy jackson and the olympians #tkc #the kane chronicles #selfreblog

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dootznbootz · 8 months ago

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I think people sleep on this moment in the Odyssey...

If I'm wrong, not getting full context, or see something that isn't there, feel free to give evidence to explain why.

Here he crept under a pair of bushes, one an olive, the other a wild olive, which grew from the same stem with their branches so closely intertwined that when the winds blew moist not a breath could get inside, nor could the rain soak right through to the earth.

(Book 5, Rieu)

I think this is about Penelope and him.

Obviously, their marriage bed is made from an Olive tree. If it's just about Athena then why are there two mentioned? Why did Homer mention two when he could've just said he took refuge under one? Or a completely different type of tree? Why mention them being intertwined?

One an olive: Penelope, who has been with society and "safe" in Ithaca ("Safe" because of the suitors)

One wild: Odysseus, who has dealt with literal monsters and immortals and has just escaped from Calypso. Literally naked and filthy, a "wild man".

"which grew from the same stem with their branches": Them both being together at first, before being separated.

"so closely intertwined that when the winds blew moist not a breath could get inside, nor could the rain soak right through to the earth.": Despite being separated, they are still "intertwined". Whether you want to think of it as them being likeminded or simply connected, even though they are apart, nothing could get in between them. 🥺

I don't know what else Homer could be referring to other than them.

#It's funny to me as even though she's not always mentioned when he retells his tale to the Phaeacians. The narrator mentions her CONSTANTLY #Because even if Odysseus doesn't say it. He's thinking about her often #honestly I...I don't think it COULD be anything else but I'm sure people will be mad that the simp loves his wife. 🤷#This part is the reason why I mention them calling the bed their “nest” as that's what THIS part calls it too. and I find it really cute #It was a nest where he SHOULD have stayed in with his family but no... :'D #half-empty nest😞#also it could be him comforting himself??? He's been forced to be in beds he doesn't want to be in for YEARS #Now. he's free and while it's not “fancy”. but at least it's SOMEWHAT like his own #greek mythology #tagamemnon #odyssey #the odyssey #penelope #odysseus #odypen #odysseus and penelope #odysseus x penelope #Mad rambles #shot by odysseus #essay

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gingermintpepper · 2 months ago

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As usual I read your tags always and so you said Apollo did not ask for resurrection of Asclepius and Hyacinthus so i just wanted to share this. About Asclepius death I read it on theoi.com, that earlier authors don't make him resurrect as a god but that's a later development mentioned only by Roman authors like Cicero, Hyginus and Ovid. But still Apollo has a role in Ovid's version

Ovid, Fasti 6. 735 ff (trans.Boyle) (Roman poetry C1st B.C. to C1st A.D.) : Clymenus [Haides] and Clotho resent the threads of life respun and death's royal rights diminished. Jove [Zeus] feared the precedent and aimed his thunderbolt at the man who employed excessive art. Phoebus [Apollon], you whined. He is a god; smile at your father, who, for your sake, undoes his prohibitions [i.e. when he obtains immortality for Asklepios].

So here it is actually because of Apollo the decision was taken to resurrect him as god. And with Hyacinthus, I don't think I've read about Artemis playing the primary role. I know in Sparta there was a picture of Artemis, Athena and Aphrodite carrying Hyacinthus and his sister to heaven.

This is not on theoi.com but I saw on Tumblr it's from Dionysiaca by Nonnus

Second, my lord Oiagros wove a winding lay, as the father of Orpheus who has the Muse his boon companion. Only a couple of verses he sang, a ditty of Phoibos, clearspoken in few words after some Amyclaian style: Apollo brought to life again his longhaired Hyacinthos: Staphylos will be made to live for aye by Dionysos.

So since he is singing inspired by amyclean stories it probably means in that place it was believed Apollo was the one to bring back his lover to life.

Apollo as god of order was very important so i think it shows how special these people (and admetus too) were to him that he decided to go against the order for them 🥺

ANON!! Shakes you like a bottle of ramune!! BELOVED ANON!!!!! I'm littering your face with kisses, I'm anointing you with olive oil and honey - you absolutely made my night with this because, not only did I get the pure serotonin shot of having someone interact with my tags (yippee, wahoo!!) I also got to have that wonderful feeling of "oh wow, have I misunderstood something that was integral to my understanding of this myth/figure this whole time or is this a case of interpretational differences?" which is imo vital for my aims and interests as someone who enjoys mythological content and literature.

I'll preface my response with this: Hyacinthus is by far the hardest of these to get accounts for because his revival itself, as you very astutely point out, is generally accounted for in painting/ritual format which muddies the waters on who interceded for what. I wasn't actually familiar with that passage from the Argonautica - and certainly didn't remember it so thank you very much for bringing it to my attention!

That said, what I've come to understand, both about Hyacinthus and about Asclepius is that in the accounts of their deaths, Apollo's position is startlingly clear.

For Hyacinthus, it is established time and again that Apollo would have sacrificed everything for him - his status, his power, his very own immortality and divinity. Ovid writes that Apollo would have installed him as a god if only he had the time:

(Ovid. Metamorphoses. Book X. trans. Johnston)

Many other writers too speak of how Apollo abandoned his lyre and his seat at Delphi to spend his days with Hyacinthus, but they also all agree that when it came to his death - he was powerless. Ovid gives that graphic account of Apollo's desperation as he tries all his healing arts to save him to no avail:

(Ovid, Metamorphoses Book X. Apollo me boy, methinks him dead. trans Johnston)

Bion, in one of his fragments, writes that Apollo was "dumb" upon seeing Hyacinthus' agony:

(Bion, The Bucolic Poets. Fragment XI. trans Edmonds)

Even Nonnus in the Dionysiaca speaks constantly of Apollo's helplessness in the face of Hyacinthus' fate where he writes that the god still shivers if a westward wind blows upon an iris:

and when Zephyros breathed through the flowery garden, Apollo turned a quick eye upon his young darling, his yearning never satisfied; if he saw the plant beaten by the breezes, he remembered the quoit, and trembled for fear the wind, so jealous once about the boy, might hate him even in a leaf...

(Nonnus, Dionysiaca, Book 3. trans Rouse)

And the point here is just that - Apollo, at least as far as I've read, cannot avert someone's death. He simply can't. Once they're already dead - once Fate has cut their string - all Apollo's power is gone and he can do nothing no matter how much he wants to. And this is, as far as I know, supported with the accounts of Asclepius as well!

Since you specifically brought up Ovid's account, I'll also stick only to Ovid's account but in Metamorphoses when we get Ovid's version of Coronis' demise, he writes that Apollo intensely and immediately regrets slaughtering Coronis. He regrets it so intensely that he, like he does with Hyacinthus, does his best to resuscitate her:

(Ovid, Metamorphoses Book Two. Apollo's regret)

And like Hyacinthus, when it becomes clear that what has happened cannot be undone, Apollo wails:

(Ovid, Metamorphoses Book Two. Apollo wept.)

Unlike his mother, Asclepius in her womb had not yet died and so, with the last of Apollo's strength, he does manage, at least, to save him.

(Ovid, Metamorphoses Book Two. Apollo puts the 'tearing out' in Asclepius.)

But it goes further than even that because Ocyrhoe, Chiron's daughter, a prophetess who unduly gained the ability to directly proclaim the secrets of the Fates, upon seeing the baby Asclepius, immediately prophesies his glory, his inevitable death and then his fated ascension:

(Ovid. Metamorphoses, Book Two. Ocyrhoe's prophecy. trans Johnston)

Before she too succumbs to her hubris and is transformed by the Fates into a horse so she can no longer speak secrets that aren't hers to share.

These things ultimately are important because it establishes two very important things: 1) Apollo can't do anything in the face of the ultimate Fate of mortals, which is, of course, death and 2) even when Apollo is Actively Devastated, regretful, yearning, mournful, guilty or some unholy combination of all of the above, when someone is dead, he accepts that they are gone. Even if he is devastated by it, even if he'll cry all the rest of his days about it - if they're dead? Apollo lets them go. In Fasti, when Zeus brings Asclepius back, he does not say Apollo asked him to - Zeus, or well, in this case Jove, brings Asclepius back because he wants Apollo to stop being mad at him.

(Ovid, Fasti VI. Apollo please come home your father misses you. trans. A.S Kline)

Even Boyle's translation which you used above in your findings hints that Zeus made Asclepius a god because he wanted Apollo to stop grieving. (i.e 'smile at your father', 'for your sake [he] undoes his prohibitions')

And like, Apollo was deeply upset by Asclepius' death - apart from killing the Cyclops in anger, in book 4 of the Argonautica, Apollonius writes that the Celts believe the stream of Eridanus to be the tears Apollo shed over the death of Asclepius when he left for Hyperborea after being chastised by Zeus for killing his Cyclops:

But the Celts have attached this story to them, that these are the tears of Leto's son, Apollo, that are borne along by the eddies, the countless tears that he shed aforetime when he came to the sacred race of the Hyperboreans and left shining heaven at the chiding of his father, being in wrath concerning his son whom divine Coronis bare in bright Lacereia at the mouth of Amyrus.

It all paints a very clear picture to me. Apollo did not ask for either of them to be brought back. Though bringing them back certainly pleased and delighted him, they are actions of other gods who are moved by Apollo's grief and mourning and seek to mollify him. Him not asking doesn't mean he didn't want them back which I think is a very important distinction by the by, but it simply means that Apollo knows the natural order of things and, even if it hurts, he isn't going to press his luck about it.

Which, of course, brings us to Admetus. And I'm really not going to overcomplicate this, Admetus is different because, very vitally, Admetus is not dead. Apollo can't do a thing once Fate has been carried out and Death has claimed a mortal but you know what he absolutely can do? Bargain like hell with the Fates before that point of inevitability. And that's what he does, ultimately for Admetus and Alcestis. He sought to prolong Admetus' life, not revive him from death or absolve him from death altogether and even after getting the Fates drunk, he's still only able to organise a sacrifice - a life for a life - something completely contingent on whether some other mortal would be willing to die in Admetus' place and not at all controllable by Apollo's own power.

All of these things, I think come back to that point you made - that Apollo's place as a god of order is very important and therefore these people are very special to him if it means he's willing to go against that order but, I also wish to challenge that opinion if you'd let me. Apollo's place as a god of order is very important and therefore, I would argue, that it is even more important that it is shown that he does not break the divine order, especially for the people that mean the most to him. The original context of my comments which started this conversation were on this lovely, lovely post by @hyacinthusmemorial which contemplated upon Asclepius from the perspective of an Emergency Medical personnel and included, in their tags, the very poignant lines "there's something about Apollo letting go when Asclepius couldn't that eats my heart away" and "you do what you can, you do your best, but you don't ever reach too far" and I think that's perfectly embodied with the Apollo-Asclepius dichotomy. Apollo grieves. He wails, he cries, he does his best each and every time to save that which is precious to him but he does not curse their nature, he does not resent that they are human and ultimately, he accepts that that which is mortal must inevitably die. There is nothing that so saliently proves that those who uphold rules are also their most staunch followers - if Apollo wants to delight in his place as Fate's mouthpiece, he cannot undo Fate. And, if even the god of healing and order himself cannot undo death, what right does Asclepius, mortal as he is, talented as he is, have to disrespect it?

The beauty of these stories isn't that Apollo loved them enough to bring them back. The beauty is that Apollo loved them enough to let them go.

#this is such a long ass post oh my god #ginger answers asks #This totally got away from me but I AM PASSIONATE ABOUT THIS AAAA #Anon beloved anon I hope you don't take this as me shutting you down or anything because that really isn't what I'm trying to do #I'm definitely going to dig more into the exactness of 'who petitioned for Hyacinthus to be revived actually?"#I always stuck to the belief that it was Artemis because of the depictions of his revival + his procession is usually devoid of Apollo #I know some renaissance paintings have him and Apollo reuniting but that's usually In The Heavens y'know #I genuinely couldn't think of any accounts that have Apollo Asking for anyone to be revived #Apollo does intercede sometimes but that's usually for immortals like Prometheus #Or even when he's left to preside over Zagreus' revival and repair in orphic tradition #Concerning Asclepius there's like a ton to talk about tbh #There's the fact that in some writings (in quite a lot actually) the reason Asclepius was killed wasn't necessarily that he brought someone #back - it was that he accepted money for it #Pindar wrote about it and Plato talks about how if Asclepius really did accept gold for a miracle then he was never a son of Apollo #It's a whole thing really #I think it's very important that it's Asclepius in his mortal folly that tests the boundaries of life and death tbh #The romanticisation of going to any length to bring back a loved one is nice and all #But sometimes the kindest and most lovely thing you can do for someone is to accept it #Just accept that they're gone - accept that there was nothing that could be done and even if the grief is heavy - keep living #Maybe we won't all get our lost loves back #But there are definitely always more people worth loving if you just live long enough to find them #apollo #asclepius #zeus #admetus #greek mythology #ovid #oh my god so much ovid #hyacinthus #coronis

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ravencromwell · 1 month ago

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The poem evokes human greatness and human vulnerability. People are “godlike” in their courage and skill, but even the greatest mortals fall and clutch the dust between their bloody fingers. The beautiful word minunthadios , “short-lived,” is used of both Achilles and Hector, and applies to all of us. We die too soon, and there is no adequate recompense for the terrible, inevitable loss of life. Yet through poetry, the words, actions, and feelings of some long-ago brief lives may be remembered even three thousand years later.

--Emily Wilson's introduction to the Iliad

#so. we've come to the Iliad section in my Early World Literature class. and in that context we're utilizing the public domain translation by #A. S. Kline which made me think: you know what would be extremely fucking cool? since I'm going to have access to the Kline text until #the course closes in December. why don't I at least start the Wilson version and see how the two translations differ? so I'm now reading #The Iliad #as translated by Wilson and performed by the utterly masterful Audra McDonald. or well. I _would be except I'm so delighted. stunned. by #the incisive thought-provokingness of her introduction I keep needing to pause and write down various quotes: just this whole idea of #the poem revolving around how all all our deaths shall come too soon and there is no adequate compensation for that awful fact just FUCK #linguistics #mythology #folklore #fairy tales #lit geekery #book babbling #(oh I am already so fucking deep in this fannish hell and I haven't even really started her translation: like the Kline one is fine. but #it's very focused on *trying* to be Homeric you know? so there are all these very archaic references ala to Apollo #as Smintheus. which I then have to stop and look up oh. that means he's the mouse god and being the mouse god is important because #it ties back to him being an oracular god. which is then why the Greeks want to turn to another oracular god when he gets all pissy at them #and on one level. learning that mice were associated with the power of prophecy? extremely cool shit. on the other. well I have to #read a large chunk of this text in a fucking week Kline my good bud was it really necessary to provide an odd mouse reference I then #needed to find the context for *myself* I can already tell Wilson's tendency to provide context. both in the intro and just in general #wanting to make it readable terms will make this so! much easier of an introduction. (Kline. by contrast. would be really fucking cool if #you were a third-time reader and wanted all the marvelous nuance. just *rubs forehead* not a great intro when you're only focusing on #this text for a fucking week)

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marsfingershurt · 3 months ago

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if yk percy Jackson,

Who would be Maes godly parent?

(Freddie would be a child of Demeter)

ohh hmm

idk much about Percy Jackson (only read a few books) but of the twelve olympians I'd say either Athena or (maybe a little surprisingly) Ares.

But there are some Titans and minor deities I feel would fit her better.

#ive never been a huge fan of the series #i guess it never really caught me when I was reading it #yknow?#but i love love love Greek mythology #mar says

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primordial0riginator · 5 months ago

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I need to play more Hades <- girl who spent all of last night playing Hades

#shut up alli #‘did you only just now start a game that came out years ago?’ yes. next question #it’s so funnnnn so fun I’m having a lovely time #dungeon crawlers are one of my fave genres so I’m in my element! (I have died many times)#but the fun part about it is watching me get better and stronger with every new attempt. it gives a very solid sense of accomplishment #and the characters? oh my godddd they’re all awesome #I’ve always been very autistic about Greek mythology so obviously it is impossible for me to dislike anyone #Hypnos and Chaos reign supreme for me but everyone is very likeable #like idk props to the dev team I can tell they put their souls in it #it makes me even more excited for Hades 2 when it releases #I wonder if they’ll put it on switch or wait for the next console #I really can’t believe such a sick ass game was so cheap too. like 24.99 for me to have the best time of my life? bitch I’d tip if I could #I mean it was a bday gift too so ya know but still

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themyscirah · 3 months ago

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Reading shit comics kind of sucks but at least I get the satisfaction of proving my own point w this

#like damn if i really was 100% right about this before i even knew what i was talking about #anyways one of the many many problems with new 52 wonder woman is the fact that diana isnt religious enough #also that azzarello and chiang are incapable of imagining a feminist utopia which is the original genre that wonder woman comics were based #in in the same way that batman for example is connected to the noir genre. and the mythological aspects of the og wonder woman comics were #in fact a common framing aspect of the feminist utopia genre of the progressive era (with many of the deeper greek mythology aspects being #established as the foremost ww genre later on)#anyways this failure to understand this layering of genres in the ww mythology i believe is the principle contributor of why this run which #is popular with many and has such a footprint in other more mainstream media is hated by so many longtime wonder woman fans in that it not #only neglects but actively goes against key parts of her premise #a comparison could be made to a superman run that is heavily based in science fiction and exploring deep sci fi genre plots without any #understanding by the creators of why it matters that superman is champion of the oppressed and disrespecting that core part of him by in #some ways making him actually go against that in service of the high sci fi genre plots and conflict #and then ofc to translate better in this reality this run would function like a can of worms in that while dc in comics would eventually #course correct back to the base version the public opinion would become divided and especially adaptations would need all the canon changes #from that run torn viciously out of their hands bc they refuse to LET IT GO #anyways yeah teehee i swore to someone id never read it but i needed it for fic research purposes unfortunately so i started it. only read 6 #issues but meh. first one wasnt terrible tbh id read worse but after that i got much more unhappy #anyways they simply dont understand why people like the amazons or why people should like the amazons. which again is like half the freaking #point bc like. feminist utopia genre. but i digress #its bad but its bad in a way that proves me right about why its bad so at least theres that #someday when i post my rebirth ww fic ill post the analysis of nu52 ww and the comparison to the beat movement/ginsberg that ive got in my #drafts. finally get that A in comic book literary analysis #blah

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hellokittysasuke · 5 months ago

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For anyone who's wondering what I've been doing I've been reading the Apollo Ascending series. And let's just say I'm midway through the third book when I started yesterday

#see it was mediocre and tir2d at first but it GREW ON ME!!#and in the third book by now it's actually..super interesting!#im beginning to really enjoy it #i cried. when hyacinthus dies. ofcourse #more coherent analysis to come later have this for now!#.txt #apollo #hyacinthus #greek mythology #apollo ascending

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the-greek-mythos-project · 6 months ago

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The Greek Mythos Project: What We Accept Within Submissions

Hello everyone, it is once again Camila here and I am writing this post because I decided I should probably clarify things sooner than later. I know I and quite a few other lovely people can struggle with open barriers within things, especially in such a large and "imposing" project, so I decided to write down the general specifics of things to lessen everyone's anxiety. This can and will definitely be improved if we are given more information/questions/asked for clarification so feel free to check every once in a while or reach out if you don't see a specific question you have answered. This is once again here to promote better communication within things and break down this large project to more manageable things. So, let's get into it!

[Note: This post will go from the broader, more unspecific, topics to the smaller, more specific ones so feel free to scroll down or up as you please :)]

The Biggest Thing First! One Singular POV. This is something that I, Camila, want for the project and therefore, it will be the most enforced thing within here. Don't worry, though! We will be releasing a Second Work alongside this main project consisting of things that didn't quite fit into the original project, such as works that aren't exactly (or at all) one POV but still want to be recognized or OC pieces that are like reincarnations of various gods/mortals/characters which I'll get into later. So you work has a place with us, I promise you <3.

Anyway, back to the One Singular POV thing. It genuinely does not matter whether the piece is First Person, Second Person, Third Person, or something within those parameters as long as the setting, scene, thoughts, and work are being described in that one character's thoughts/experiences. A great example of this in Third Person is in the Heroes of Olympus by Rick Riordan, a popular YA Book Series centering around Greek Mythology in a Modern Setting told by their Demigod Children, where the narrative is in Third Person POV but it only ever follows whoever's POV it's in. Such as we do see the character's actual name and "he/she/they" instead of "I" but we're not privy to anything other than what the character is experiencing.

That is what I am asking for, and I am asking for this mostly for myself!) As we all may know by now, this project was created because I--Camila--took one look at my goal to rewrite the entirety of Greek Mythology in my search to learn more about the Greek Myths, was like "yeah... no," and then proceeded to make this public with the intent to bring out those niche writers, gain a community, make friends, and generally learn more about the various communities and ideas surrounding such a vast and deep thing such as Greek Mythology (remember, people not only know this across the globe, but across centuries. It's not just our ideas and the original texts, it's the Roman Empire's thoughts, the Rise of Christianity, all of our forefathers, and even those who we have read dissecting these things and creating academic papers or other works. It's just so interesting how much character and change and even how much influence various things have had on our modern perceptions). But, this is also a Project, this is also mine, and so I am very politely asking for it to be One POV of a Greek Mythological Character--However Niche They May Be--Only.

Thank you so much for understanding and, again, I will be hosting a Secondary Fic for all the things that don't quite fit under this Main Project but may still want to have the recognition/community that this comes with <3.

Note!! Because this post ended up being a little long and would be hard to properly organize going further, the rest of it will be comprised in reblogs <33

#The Greek Mythos Project #Greek Mythology #to do a quick and basic summarization of the rest because I don't know when I'll be able to get it out there:#yes OCs can be included as long as the POV is of a canonical main character #yes you can reuse old published works (& you can also provide their links so we can give the original posts some love)#AUs are undecided on where they will be placed among here #(they'll either be clearly labeled within the project or have their own Work)#will definitely be rewriting all these posts later down the line but they should serve as something #and we all deserve some human error over here don't we #and sorry if I'm being really repetitive #...they kind all revolve around the same thing #just let me know if I need to actually clean up this post or clarify something bc I cannot trust my own perception of myself #I am; and I quote; “my own worst asshole” and it can be applied to me doing stupid shit to myself or being a perfectionist <3 #but yeah #hope this helps and yeah #once I write most of these little posts clarifying things I'll definitely rewrite everything to make them more cohesive #bc we learning as we go along too!!#/pos /gen #...did I miss anything?

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p4nishers · 1 year ago

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can we actually take a moment and remember swan upon leda? can we actually shut the fuck up and sit the fuck down and think about our lord and savior swan upon leda because i'm tired of doing it alone every single day guys

#the title itself!!! THE FUCKING TITLE #swan UPON leda #god he's an actual genius THANK U HOZIER SO FUCKING MUCH #i hate how that myth is portrayed and received and objectified bc they make it out to be such a funny little chuckle story like 'hahaha led #is SO easy that she fell for a swan isn't that actually the funniest thing you've ever heard omg like women are literally so easy to please #whatever whatever blahblahblah yes that's fucking hilarious matthew thank u SO much for that absolutely fascinating commentary on a women #getting raped by a god really truly an amazing insight into ur pea fucking brain #like fuck sorry but i just absolutely despises how this myth is made out to be and i remember learning abt it in class and being literally #nauseated bc guess fucking what it's literally not hard to understand wtf is happening and while u r laughing away about i repeat a WOMEN #getting RAPED some fucking of us have brain enough to be mortified #jesus ANYWAY #hozier dropped that song after roe v wade was over turned and i just i love him so fucking much he cares SO MUCH and before anything else #he's an activist and he actually gives a shit about women's rights and he dropped this song as a comfort as something to hold onto but also #as a social commentary and he linked charities and resources to help women and keep them safe and this song just means everything to me #bc greek mythology often gets reduced to children stories bc most ppl know myths from children books and obviously a book for kids not gonn #outloud say the word rape or even imply that that's what's happening and that's fine ig but bc so many ppl know it from there it gets #reduces to a joke and a raped women gets ridiculed but hozier actually took one of the few poems about leda being raped and it being a rape #at all and made it into a song during a time that was so traumatizing for ever afab person in the world basically and it just says 'i see #you i see what you're going through and i'm listening and i actually care and i want to help you' and he's helping by writing a song yes bc #he's spreading the word that way bc that's how movements are spread and people listen to him when he's singing and that's how he helps and #i did i mention that i love him? bc i'd actually do anything for him and to meet him and tell him how much he fucking means to me #the line that always gets me is 'a crying CHILD pushes a CHILD into the night' bc yes she was a fucking child who had to deliver 4 KIDS BC #AN ASSHOLE DECIDED SHE WAS PRETTY ENOUGH TO FUCK and nobody ever cares that she was just a child and her child helen was just a child when #she was abducted and raped and impregnated (JUST LIKE HER MOTHER) by theseus a supposed great hero and im genuinely sick she was just a #child like so many women or girls in greek mythology and ik it was a different time back then or wtv but they were just GIRLS and nobody #cared about that or cares now. but this song does.#bc of course it does it's hozier.#hozier #swan upon leda

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dootznbootz · 1 year ago

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To ME, The Iliad and The Odyssey are about the different reactions to trauma and "hate".

The Iliad is about how a man gets destroyed by hatred. Achilles is "destroyed" metaphorically because his hatred and grief caused him to lose his "humanity". Hector is killed by a man filled with so much hatred (Achilles). Both men are "gone".

The Odyssey, being what happens directly after, is about how a man can come BACK from such hatred. Menelaus and Nestor, while still in pain from the war (the time, friends, and family they lost), are still able to move forward and live normal lives. We watch this happen in real time through Odysseus.

Odysseus' name means to hate and be hated, something he's been probably doing since he left Ithaca to a degree. You could even see the slaughter of the suitors as being the "final fight" he has to go through before the "healing". He gains back his humanity, kingdom, and identity by loving and being loved. (Niko's post about Odysseus and his identity. It delves further into all that well!)

Some people are lost to war and some people CAN come back from it. While the ancients (of every culture as well!) didn't have the semi-universal term PTSD yet, they knew damn well people who have experienced trauma tend to be "different" afterward and had their own stories and even some "remedies"

Other ancient works, such as those by Hippocrates, describe soldiers who experienced frightening battle dreams. (Source, whole article gives more info on ancient PTSD too!)

Celsus, a Roman doctor described a condition named Insania sine fibre.

In Ancient Mesopotamia, “They described hearing and seeing ghosts talking to them, who would be the ghosts of people they’d killed in battle – and that’s exactly the experience of modern-day soldiers who’ve been involved in close hand-to-hand combat.” (Source)

This is my own interpretation, but in a way, I think the Epic Cycle is...showcasing that. The Iliad shows how trauma can "end" a person. And The Odyssey is kind of a way to give some hope to folks in a "Hey, you CAN get better. You CAN have your life back."

#I have not really edited this and looked it over as much as I should have but meh!#also if someone else has already thought and talked about this. I can give credit and/or delete it!#I have a lot of feelings on this. as I love history. Psychology. and literature and the Iliad/Odyssey to ME is all 3 #I could just interpret it this way since...ya know👀so I could be talking absolute nonsense but I wanted to know what others think!#I think it's why I love the Odyssey and Odysseus so much. There's always hope to heal. There's always hope in getting better!#good analysis' use sources when they can😤 even though this is extremely casual and for the homies on tumblr lol #odyssey #odysseus #hector of troy #tagamemnon #greek mythology #iliad #achilles #psychology #Mad rambles #shot by odysseus #essay

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gingermintpepper · 2 months ago

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I saw it in your tag game post that you're also fond of the Apollo-Heracles conflict 👀 for a myth that appears in only a couple of sources, it sure has a lot of presence in the vase paintings (no seriously, everytime I think I've seen the last of it, I find ten more)

SO do you have any favorites among the paintings that represent this story??

OMG OMG THIS ASK IS A GIFT. IT IS A GIFT THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR LETTING ME TALK ABOUT THIS

I also think it's extremely interesting that it's a story so popularly portrayed by vase paintings and in such a variety of ways!! It's certainly one of the stories that gets left out of written compilation of Heracles' legend a bit (which is a shame, I think it's a fantastic story) but Apollo had a very peculiar relationship with Heracles in general that I just kind of find amazing (and very, very funny).

Apollo is not a god with any legitimate grudge against Heracles, but he does argue with the mortal a bit like he argues with his favourite brothers 😂Part of why I love the story of Apollo and Heracles fighting over the tripod so much is that it is such a little brother thing for Heracles to be upset with the proclamation his elder brother has given him and so, he throws a great fit, taking up the chair and declaring that he'll just give himself a better prophecy! And Apollo, instead of being a marginally professional big brother, decides to fight him for it until their father has to break up their cat-fight. Like was that not just the plot of the Homeric Hymn to Hermes? Is this not exactly how Apollo treated Hermes when he was a child and now those two are inseparable? 💀

Because of this, my favourite vase paintings tend to be the ones that highlight the personal squabbling between Apollo and Heracles the most. There are some very elaborate ones that have the full host of them - Athena, Heracles, Apollo, Artemis, usually a dog and a doe, I've even seen a couple that had birds and plants etched on them, but the simplest ones that show Heracles about to bonk Apollo with his club out of frustration or depict Heracles nyooming away from Apollo while Apollo (presumably) yells curses about how he's going to fling Heracles head first into Tartarus for daring to take his things? Yeah, those are the premium big brother/little brother things I'm looking for.

(Photo. Marie-Lan Ngyuen)

(Photo. Museo Claudio Faina)

Also the one in the Theoi.com archives is a real classic - perfect energy.

#ginger answers asks #Thank you SO much for letting me talk about this even a little it always makes me smile #Despite their disputes - if you ask me Apollo was quite fond of Heracles #And I think a big part of why I ultimately come to that conclusion is that Apollo never hinders Heracles or withholds blessings from him #He simply calls him a bitch every time he sees him and then makes his life marginally more inconvenient #like any good older brother let's be so fr #It's extremely charming to see him so playful with a mortal he's not in love with/that is not his son #Other moments of Apollo teasing Heracles includes him trying to convince Artemis not to let Heracles catch her doe when he comes #to fulfill that particular labour (again he doesn't actually try to stop it he just puts up a bit of a fuss about it)#and perhaps another of my all time favourites #Personally luring Heracles into Admetus' house so Heracles can wrestle Thanatos while Apollo rescues Alcestis #I DO NOT KNOW WHY MORE PEOPLE DON'T TALK ABOUT THE LUNACY OF APOLLO'S ADMETUS/ALCESTIS PRESERVATION PLAN #He really said “No yeah I know a guy don't worry about Death Incarnate” and then Heracles shows up at Admetus' door like this is a sitcom #The laugh track that plays in my mind every time Admetus opens that door sees Heracles and then looks back at the disguised Apollo like #'HIM?? HERACLES?? Heracles who can break me in seven pieces with a thought Heracles???'#And Apollo just gives him a thumbs up and says “feed him well pookie <33”#Genuinely some of the funniest shit I have the pleasure of reading in greek myth #Another reason I don't think Apollo has any ill will against Heracles though is how Apollo reacts when Heracles #loses Hylas in the Argonautica #Or well some versions of the Argonautica - this is also a story that changes wildly depending on the source/compilation #But Apollo is incredibly sympathetic to Heracles' sorrow and kind of decides there and then that Heracles losing one love #should be the return of another and asks that Zeus let Heracles free Prometheus when he makes his descent into the underworld #Similarly it is Apollo who anoints Alcaeus/Alcides the name Heracles (also dependent on the myth source)#They just had a very fun relationship and it's a serious shame that it's not acknowledged more #apollo #heracles #greek mythology #(Also people do not talk about the fact that Apollo grappled with Heracles to a standstill enough actually)

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