#mdzs meta?

[lordmushroomkat]

I think the main reason that Wei Wuxian and Lan Wangji became so obsessed with each other is their similar moral codes.

"Do what you know you cannot" means exactly the same thing to Wei Wuxian as "Be Righteous" means to Lan Wangji.

They are both people who will help, protect, and save others even and especially when it serves no purpose to better their own lives. They will both help others even at great personal risk to themselves. They will stand for those who stand alone.

Nobody else in their lives is like this.

For Wei Wuxian, Jiang Cheng is there, trying to talk him out of doing things that will get all of them in trouble. And Madam Yu is there, berating him for stirring the pot.

For Lan Wangji, there is Lan Xichen, who is righteous by nature but unwilling to step too far out of line when it might risk the peace that he works to protect as a leader. And his uncle is there, expecting absolute perfection from him at all times.

But these two, they both want to be wherever there is chaos, wherever they are needed. In this world where it is always safer to stay with the crowd, they are each willing to stand alone. But isn't it wonderful when the two of them can finally stand together?

[lgbtlunaverse]

Fanon likes to portray Jiang Cheng and Lan Wangji as being jealous of each other because they fear wei wuxian will choose one of them over the other. Which is ignoring the fact that at least in novel canon Jiang Cheng did not even fucking know wangxian ever got along let alone that lwj was in love with wwx until at the very end of the story (in cql canon he does go through a wangxian phase early on and gets very confused by their "breakup" during wwx's sunshot era) and that Lan Wangji is mostly filled with loathing towards both himself and Jiang Cheng for 'abandoning' Wei Wuxian and not being able to save him.

It also ignores the much bigger point that both Lan Wangji and Jiang Cheng are actually jealous of Wen Ning. And why wouldn't they be? That is who Wei Wuxian chose in his first life. He left the Jiang, told Lan Wangji to fuck off no he is not coming to gusu with you, and spent his days with his little-brother-shaped corpse bestie on his mountain in yiling. And then when he came back he immediately called him up the second he could string together more than two notes on a flute. Wen Ning is the real competition. (And he's winning)

[imafraidoftomorrow]

I'm rereading MDZS and it just hit me that Wei Wuxian's first impression upon meeting Lan Yuan post-resurrection was that he was a "good sprout"

You guys... you guys... that's his little radish... that's his good little sprout....

[icyolive]

When did WWX fall in love--before he died, or after he was resurrected?

I propose a third option: both are true.

I'm very firmly in the camp of WWX being head over heels pretty much right from the start, but that ignores a lot of the emotional growth between the two of them after his resurrection. On the other hand, calling that growth "falling in love" ignores his obvious feelings right from the start, and also just doesn't seem like what's going on. His thoughts and feelings about LWJ don't really change all that much.

But here's what does change: WWX starts thinking about himself.

He starts putting himself and his needs into the equation. He goes from seeing LWJ as a trustworthy and good paragon of virtue to seeing him as someone he personally trusts. From objectively the most handsome person in existence to someone he personally really wants to sleep with finds handsome.

So it's not that he fell in love after resurrection--he loved LWJ right from the start--but also he did fall in love after resurrection, because that's when he started thinking about LWJ as someone he could be with. Not that he didn't want to be with him before; instead, he didn't have a concept of personally wanting (being able to want, being allowed to want, being allowed to have) anyone at all.

[poorly-drawn-mdzs]

You made her cry, time to die.

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[lurkinginnernarrator]

I think Lan Jingyi is important. Specifically in what he represents: In the Cloud Recesses Study Arc we see how stolid the Lan Sect is, and with Lan Wangji's whipping we see how blinded the Lan Sect can be by its own ideals that it forsakes the morality those ideals represent.

When we see Lan Wangji in WWX'S second life we see the change Lan Wangji has initiated in his own clan.

That change is embodied in the one Lan Jingyi.

He's loud, brash, emotive, unfiltered and sometimes rude, all of which are anathema to the Lan Clan's sacred ideals of comportment and image. While Lan Jingyi does get punished for infractions it should be noted that he's never dissuaded from his own nature. There is no alienation of Lan Jingyi from his clan. Lan Jingyi is fully Lan, we don't ever see him excluded and we don't see his relationship to his clan in any interpretable as estranged.

What does that tell us?

It tells us that the Lan Sect is changing. If we went purely on the Lan Sect we see in years prior it would not be surprising to see a character such as Lan Jingyi continually disparaged for his anathemic nature, looked down upon and excluded for his differences and punished for his 'undesirable traits'.

We do not see Lan Jingyi's passion being trained or beaten out of him. Instead, we see that the Lan Sect, especially through Lan Wangji's teachings and reforms, are doing their best to model Morality and Righteousness.

The flourishing existence of Lan Jingyi is a testament to the emendation of Lan Sect values; true righteousness being valued over the appearance of it, benevolence in action instead of in name. Mercy. Grace.

Lan Jingyi is the product of Lan Wangji's reforms and trials.

We see Lan Wangji suffer for his innate passion, punished for it by the hands of his own sect. But we also know Lan Jingyi never will.

Lan Jingyi is a sign of growth.

[randomness-is-my-order]

while i’m on the topic, it is very hilarious and also very insightful that mxtx actually plainly tells us how anyone else except wei wuxian would have fared without their golden cores/spiritual powers by putting thousand-plus cultivators in exactly that situation during the second siege. the way they all absolutely lose their shit, fumble around, lose coherence of thought, see-saw between decisions and become, essentially, helpless and useless is eye-opening. hell, jiang cheng ends up so affected that jin ling is able to manhandle him into the cave. the cultivators from the biggest clans aren’t able to come up with anything to save their asses and it takes shizui to point out the array for them to even consider it as an option. if wei wuxian, lan wangji and the juniors weren’t there, sooooo many disciples would have lost their lives–simply because of how incompetent they collectively became once they lost their spiritual powers. if they made a coordinated effort, they could have still held the corpses off, but it’s just that... they weren’t able to, mentally, get past their sudden lack of powers. they were disoriented.

now, i’m not saying that this isn’t a normal reaction to have. it’s totally understandable how these people were huge messes, especially in such a high stakes situation. it is just that it puts into perspective how AWESOME wei wuxian is to have had his golden core cut out of him, voluntarily, then beaten within a micrometre of his life, then thrown straight into the hell on earth aka the burial mounds and then instead of succumbing instantly, he instead overcame these impossible circumstances and somehow, survived and found alternative powers to keep him going. that is nothing short of mind-boggling, awe-inspiring, jaw-dropping. not one person in that siege-laying populace would be able to accomplish that and it held some of the finest cultivators their world has to offer. because no one, other than wei wuxian, had the internal capabilities to build their strengths up from a source that wasn’t their spiritual powers. without their golden cores, they would be toast faster than a human within one kilometre of the sun’s radius. and i love love love how mxtx hits us with this fact in our faces in exactly the scenes that are all about undoing the falsehoods and allegations that wei wuxian, until then, had been levied with in the larger cultivation world’s perspective.

[tea-cat-arts]

Sometimes I wonder what Jiang Cheng could've become if his parents didn't instill a mix of "crippling fear of failure" and "impossibly high standards" in him. Cuz like, his dad was holding him to the vague standard of being as good as wwx, his mom yelling at him whenever he goofed around like wwx, and then both of them expressed disappointment when he's less successful than wwx. The thing both of them seem to ignore though is that wwx got where he is entirely because he had the freedom to fuck around and find out- he trained tirelessly because he made training fun for himself, he was innovative as a cultivators because he experimented and persisted through failures, and he was able to act in line with the Jiang clan moto because his actions had less political pull than members of the main family. Jiang Cheng on the other hand- if he fucked around he got told to "stop stooping to the level of servants." If his achievements were lesser than wwx's, he got either dismissed by his dad or yelled at by his mom to try harder. And if he picked fights with the Wens, they'd have an excuse to destroy his clan. Like ya- no shit that'd create an adult who's terrified of failure.

The kite game serves as such a good metaphor/embodiment of this set back- with Jiang Cheng never being able to shoot as far as Wei Wuxian because he pulls back and shoots closer the second he misses.

And its sad too because he's shown to be pretty brilliant when he's in "fuck it, we ball" mode. Like, when he's not freezing up, he manages to pull off things like rebuilding his entire clan from the ground up, leading armies and taking back territories from the Wens, and I'm fairly sure he's the only character we see counter the Lan music cultivation techniques (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on that last one. Also feel free to add any of the other cool shit he did that I'm blanking on at the moment, cuz I know I'm forgetting something).

That being said- even with his anxiety, he's still one of the top cultivators. Imagine what a force of nature he'd be if he could sustain "fuck it we ball" mode

[muqingapologist]

i think it’s interesting how people often characterize lan wangji’s perspective of wei wuxian during and after the yiling laozi arc like “free my man, he did nothing wrong.” but to me, i feel like this is just selling short his character and his devotion to wwx. the way i see it, when wei wuxian is at his worst and in the years after when wwx comes back, lan wangji isn’t condoning his actions of that era. it’s more like, “i know you were trying to do the right thing, and things spiraled out of control, and i failed to help you back then, and i won’t fail you again.” it’s not wei wuxian’s actions that lan wangji is so defensive of but his intentions. even if lwj didn’t know at the time (and even when he comes back, at first) why wwx chose the ghostly path and gave up righteous cultivation, he has an unshakeable faith in wwx’s moral code, that wwx will do what he feels is right. or at least, doing what he thinks he needs to do to survive. this doesn’t necessarily mean that lan zhan thinks what wwx did as his mental state eroded WAS right. we see this so many times when lan zhan tries to help him, hoping that wwx will return to gusu with him. it’s not until it’s too late, when wwx is truly breaking down, that he understands that that wasn’t the right way to help wwx. the right way is to just be there for him, which is what he does when wwx returns. letting wwx make his own decisions while showing him that there is still someone who believes in him. imo this is much more meaningful than the other interpretation that i see a lot that i mentioned above. it’s about being there for wei wuxian even if he does make the wrong decisions because at the end of the day he knows that wwx, at his core, has good intentions.

[jetkast]

Shen Qingqui: this man would be exactly my type if I were gay, bummer I'm not into massive heavenly perfect dicks

Wei Wuxian: this man is objectively the most attractive person to ever exist, too bad he's a boring prude made of stone who is also mad at me

Xie Lian: this man must be so beloved by his special someone, I hope our friendship doesn't get in the way of that

Meanwhile:

Luo Binghe: unconditionally obsessed for life since day 1

Lan Wangji: unconditionally obsessed for life since day 1

Hua Cheng: unconditionally obsessed for life since day 1

[two-corpses-in-the-burial-mounds]

Anyone else think a lot about how at the end of canon, Lan Wangji has had time to mature for 10+ years into a guy in his mid-30s, but Wei Wuxian still has the life experience and general maturity of a war-traumatized early 20-something?

Because like. Wei Wuxian died young and he died tragically, and everyone who was around him then that's still there after he's resurrected has gotten to live their lives. They got to mature. They've had 13/16 years to heal (or not heal -_-) and learn who they are. To become fully realized adults outside of the pressures of war. And Wei Wuxian hasn't had that. If you believe MXTX's interview that circulates on this site sometimes, he spent those 16 years in a suspended state of agony. And even if you don't believe that, he was still dead. Non-existant.

For Wei Wuxian, the war is fresh. The pain is fresh. He has no idea what's doing because he's barely an adult, if admittedly a highly skilled one for his age. The world has moved on around him and he has stayed in place. What does he do with that?

Wei Wuxian had no choice but to pretend that he's moved on, too, because that war that took so much from him was almost two decades ago, now. The Wen Remnants have been dead for over 10 years. What use is it to dig up old hurts? Except, those hurts are still hurting him.

When he died, Wei Wuxian was helping care for Lan Sizhui. Wen Yuan. When he died, Lan Wangji raised A-Yuan with the Lan. If Wei Wuxian was dead for 13/16 years and A-Yuan was 3/4 when he died, then Lan Sizhui is about his age, or very close to it.

This is the child he was raising. This child is now his peer.

Wei Wuxian has memories of war and tragedy, but no one to talk to. The juniors, who are closest to him in relative age, haven't known war, and everyone who has known it has moved on. He's trapped between generations, and that has to be so incredibly isolating.

Jiang Yanli, the Wen Remnants, Wen Qing of particular note, all of them died shortly before he did. Did he ever really get to grieve them? Will he be allowed to now? Especially with his reputation. Especially with the number of people who would really prefer him to simply leave the past in the past. Especially with all the people who think he is the cause of the deaths he wishes to grieve.

Will he be allowed to mourn, if the cultivation world thinks these deaths are his fault? Or that these people don't deserve to be grieved?

Wei Wuxian has the misfortune of being a man who is a decade out of time, and he will have to learn to cope with that, but how does he account for the missing years? When the pain is still fresh for him, how does he find a place in a society that has long since moved on?

[lgbtlunaverse]

I know that because the story takes place after wwx comes back jiang cheng's whole "i don't believe wei wuxian is actually dead i'm gonna keep obsessively looking for him" shtick got retroactively legitimized, but it is pretty important to remember that wei wuxian was in fact super dead the entire time and if it hadn't been for a depressed 20-something doing a suicide ritual, influenced to an unknown degree by a revenge plot that wasn't in play yet at the time of wwx's death, he would never have come back at all. And jiang cheng would've kept going "No! He's still out there I know it" for eternity with absolutely no proof or results.

Jiang Cheng, my man, what the fuck

[fateandloveentwined]

wuxia, xianxia, and cultivation differences meta

translations: wuxia 武俠, xianxia 仙俠, and cultivation 修真/修仙 (xīuzhēn/xīuxiān)

think i've seen posts on this eons ago, and i'm pretty sure there are tons of these online, but since this has been written up already let's just have another one.

wuxia 武俠

wuxia and xianxia sound similar, but basically for wuxia it is about the pugilistic world (江湖 jiānghú). It is relatively more down-to-earth, and people practice martial arts ("kungfu") in their current life -- they do not do it to become xians (仙) and gods (神) however.

Like Thousand Autumns and Faraway Wanderers/Word of Honor, it has more historical background and ties to the current court and kingdoms, because people are living in the moment and concern themselves with worldly issues.

Martial arts may seem unrealistic, but in view of chinese fantasy it would be considered "real". It consists of fighting moves and internal energy, which they call qi or nèigōng (內功), and at times you see people flying around, climbing hills and jumping across rooftops which is qīnggōng (輕功).

xianxia 仙俠

A level up would be xianxia, where characters in the story cultivate to become xians (and gods, like in the heaven official's blessing). They don't really care about earthly issues here now, because their ambitions lie beyond the current world, and cultivation, getting stronger, and an immortal life are majorly all their goals.

You may not always see them working towards that purpose, such as in mdzs they are considered a lower-xianxia society (低魔), meaning people don't go through all the steps of cultivation and only stay at the stage before the "golden core" stage.

In xianxia, characters still learn basic fighting moves aka. martial arts, but to direct the internal energy they use línglì (灵力), zhēnqì (真气), and fǎlì (法力), all xianxia terms you commonly see. "neigong" is practically nonexistent in this genre. That's why people building up their "neigong" instead of "lingli" are likely never going to be able to cultivate.

cultivation 修真/修仙

A subgenre in the xianxia category would be cultivation. Characters actively go through the stages of cultivation, and likely for the MC, because they are the main character, they successfully become a xian and exit the world at the end of the novel.

There are many stages of cultivation, usually defined at the beginning of the novel in the synopsis, and a typical example of the different levels would be this:

练气，筑基，金丹，元婴，化神，炼虚，合体，大乘，渡劫

And with a cursory search, an English translation would be something like this, albeit not with all the cultivation ranks identified.

Qi condensation (练气), Foundation establishment (筑基), Core Formation (金丹), Nascent Soul (元婴), and the names after that vary too greatly with translation and fandom so I'll jump straight to Immortal Ascension

extra info: getting into the philosophy of it all

It'd be interesting to note that the word "xiá" (俠) permeates all these genres. This is something akin to the concept of "hero", but not at all also, and I'd love to speak more on this but this post has already gone way longer than I hoped it would be, so perhaps another day.

Regardless, it is interesting to note that wuxia has a greater emphasis on "xia" than xianxia. (some joke that cultivation doesn't have the word "xia" in it, and much of that is because characters have foregone heroism and focused on gaining powers and working towards ascension instead). As a result, wuxia is more confucianism-oriented, though not without its taoism and buddhism influences.

xianxia, on the other hand, is mainly derived from "dào" (道), from taoism, which is another lengthy concept if I ever get to it.

And some may have heard of the "farming" genre, 种田 (zhòngtián). This has to do with golden fingers (mary sues) in imperialistic china, earning a wealth of money, and all that. It has nothing to do with cultivation, alike they sound in english.

that's it for now, hmu if you wish to ask/discuss!

(and apologies for the pinyin translations, hope it's understandable still! formally writing pinyin they are supposed to be two separate words not one.)

[poorly-drawn-mdzs]

I'm a doctor, not a miracle worker.

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[pumpkinpaix]

The 2019 Chinese drama The Untamed (CQL) quickly became a massive phenomenon, drawing millions of viewers in China and beyond. Its resonant story, rich cast of characters, and striking production captured audience attention globally; its paratexts and fandoms helped keep that attention sustained. What made this particular mix so compelling, and what can The Untamed show us about increasingly transcultural media flows? Catching Chen Qing Ling explores how The Untamed has been translated, produced, distributed, watched, and remixed. Contributors offer multifaceted insights on the path from subcultural writing tradition to highly profitable entertainment media, as well as some of the challenges such change engenders. From fan translations and digital labor, to the 227 Incident and issues of censorship, this collection explores some of the questions raised by The Untamed’s enduring resonance and considers what it might mean for the future of transcultural media.

Stay tuned for more information and contributor spotlights in the coming days!

(FAQ) (all posts on Catching Chen Qing Ling)

[randomness-is-my-order]

while reading the books, i remember wei wuxian’s relationship with jin ling hitting me especially hard. i was crying when the whole stabbing thing happened. but i truly adore what becomes of them and do you know why? because jin ling does something the others could never, something miraculous really––he actually unlearns the prejudice he’s been taught to hold against wei wuxian. he meets wwx, full of disdain, slowly learning about who wwx really is and it has nothing to do with wwx’s outward appearance. and when the truth is revealed, the internal warring for jin ling is plainly portrayed and even if he does give in to a hate intermingled with grief that he has internalised towards this one entity (wei wuxian was never a person in his mind, just the ‘killer’ of his parents, a phantom, before the events of the book happened), you can tell his heart has already turned, that it will keep turning and that’s what happens. you have jin ling, an orphaned child, who hated someone whom his mother loved dearly, because that man caused his parents’ death but it is such a commendable thing that wei wuxian was able to create a space in jin ling’s heart and jin ling was able to accept it. it’s the way both jin ling & jiang cheng blame the death of their parents on wwx but only the former was able to see wei wuxian clearly and actually forge a bond of love with him.

it’s the fact that if ANYONE in this story can actually rightfully hold a grudge against wei wuxian, it’s jin ling, but instead this teenager decides that wei wuxian is much too good and that having him as an uncle is lovely, after all.