#mxtx meta

[imafraidoftomorrow]

I'm rereading MDZS and it just hit me that Wei Wuxian's first impression upon meeting Lan Yuan post-resurrection was that he was a "good sprout"

You guys... you guys... that's his little radish... that's his good little sprout....

[mini-godzilla]

Obsessed with Xie Lan as a character. Like I know everyone reads these books for the romance but the individual character concepts are hilarious.

Xie Lan is a prince. He eats poison on the reg. He’s forever stuck looking like he’s nineteen. He’s the oldest guy in the communication array. He knows kung fu. He dressed in drag to catch a ghost on two separate unrelated occasions. He’s the world greatest detective. He’s kind. He was forced into a trolley problem and chose to pull the lever. His cooking is awful to the point it could kill a god. He’s kind. He tried to give CPR to a ghost. He’s the unluckiest man alive. He’s been kicked out of heaven multiple times. He’s kind. He caught a kid from certain death and everyone was pissed at him forever about it. He regrets nothing but coming back to heaven.

[sonik-kun]

Jiang Cheng is a virgin by choice. There is just no way a man like him is without a partner in a world where arranged marriages (and forced ones too) exist.

I mean take a look at his parents. There was no love in that marriage and yet they still fucked for the sake of their sects 😂

This is where JC fan's ace headcanons come from. Whilst yes, he may have a temper and sometimes a sour attitude, the fact that Jin Guangshan of all people can pull due to his wealth and power means that Jiang Cheng can do it too. But he doesn't want to because he shows little next to no interest in pursuing romantic relationships in the story.

I guess this post is just me ranting about JC antis bashing our ace JC headcanons and the typical "haha, JC is a virgin" joke I see on here. This isn't the 90s. I thought we're passed insulting people for being virgins? 😭😭 Especially since ace people exist? (And depressed people too.. Which could be another explanation for JCs lack of desire to pursue a wife..).

Either way, I'm ending this by saying that Jiang Cheng is 100% virgin by choice. He could easily get a partner or heck even visit brothels if he wanted to, but he doesn't. Which to me suggests that there might be something Jiang Cheng is struggling with or trying to figure out for himself.

[biboomerangboi]

Thinking about Xie Lian with his bamboo hat and Hua Cheng with all his love and the idea of the Ship of Theseus Paradox. How at its core the novel poses this idea of how much of you remains the same after you’ve been destroyed and had your circumstances flipped and how that doesn’t even matter because in the end they all are fundamentally those things unchanged.

Xie Lian is still someone who loves the people and wants to fight for them despite being torn apart by human hands over and over again. Hua Chengs very foundation is his love for Xie Lian despite dying and being dispersed time and time again. The hat couldn’t possibly be the exact same hat after 800 years but the symbolism of it remains and Xie Lian is able to pass that symbolic kindness onto someone else. I’m literally punching walls and chewing glass.

[queerlyloud]

Okay, back on my MXTX bullshit because sometimes I can't believe the slander. But I wanna talk about why MXTX deserves to get whatever profit and protection from her work that she can (other than the obvious fact that it's her fucking work, so obviously she should prosper from it, that's how jobs work?)

So, the thing that drives me insane about MXTX books, and a thing I have talked about on here before, is that she is delivering an overarching message in every book she writes, and the message says: If a system of power is turned against you, no matter how good you are, no matter how strong, or selfless, or kind, or loving, or brave, no matter how perfect you can be, it won't matter, because the individual is powerless to the system. Systemic change is the only way to protect the ones the current system deems powerless or unnecessary.

And before you come in with, "She was fetishizing gay men," MXTX literally wrote hundreds of thousands of words characterizing these men and building their relationship and devotion to one another, so much so that fanon has deemed them all aspec in varying ways. She chose to deliver a message about the power of the system to persecute the innocent and the powerless in the form of a story that was 1. Illegal, 2. Humanized a specifically targeted persecuted group, and 3. Gave them all the happy endings they deserved despite all the pain to get there. She showcased the difference that systemic support can make in the life of the persecuted as the closing arc in every single one of her books.

Don't tell me MXTX doesn't fucking care. She's still delivering her message and she's doing it louder and safer, and i hope she gets every creature comfort the world can offer.

[cum-villain]

I've been musing the ways that MXTX's novels handle systemic power and systems of oppression, and how it's possibly related to her own experiences.

(This ended up very long, so I'm putting it under a cut)

In her debut novel, Scum Villain's Self-Saving System (SVSSS), systemic powers aren't exactly a major motivator. As in, while systemic oppression certainly exists, it mostly serves as motivations for characters and part of their backstory. Who the characters are is, primarily, the choices they make. Even truly impenetrable systems (or Systems) allow leeway. There's an emphasis on people choosing to be who they are, choosing to help or hurt others. Regardless of who you are or where you come from, you always can choose to better yourself, or remain stuck where you are.

And, it's a nice theme, right? In part, yes. But in certain ways, it can be a touch naive. I think the character Shen Jiu is the best way to describe what I mean. Shen Jiu, as readers of SVSSS know, was a slave sold by child traffickers to an abusive master, who eventually killed his way out and to Cang Qiong Mountain. After reuniting with a childhood friend, Yue Qingyuan, who had become heir to the sect leader, he managed to get a position as heir to the second-ranking Peak Lord, and eventually was lord of Qing Jing Peak himself. However, he never recovered from his childhood, and was a highly abrasive character, and when he was a Peak Lord himself, he abused his disciples, even attempting to murder at least one (Luo Binghe) multiple times out of jealousy.

In certain ways, he made his own choices. He had the power to make a new life for himself, and yet he still chose to continue the cycle of abuse and hurt multiple children. It's undeniable he was a scummy person for this. However, one can also make the case that he wasn't entirely at fault. After all, when he murdered his way out of Qiu Manor, wasn't it because, as a slave, he had no other way to flee? For the events that followed, while he made his own choices, can he really be blamed for not being kind when he had very little kindness shown to him? Wasn't he pitiful? Certainly, it's something of a stretch to deny his fault in the abuse he perpetuated, but the fact that it's still a debate a decade after the book's release raises an interesting question: Is the way SVSSS handles systemic problems naive?

I would say, it is. Obviously, we all make our own choices in life, but what if the systems in place force us into situations where there are no good choices? What can we do when the world itself gives us no choice but to be evil or die?

In between the writing of SVSSS, and her second book, Mo Dao Zu Shi (Grandmaster of Demonic Cultivation), multiple things occurred. For one, MXTX was only in high school when she wrote her first book, and she grew up. Additionally, danmei is a genre that commonly faces censorship. It's not unheard of for authors to be arrested for writing in the genre. And SVSSS is, famously, her least popular novel. The manhua only had a few chapters before it went on a permanent hiatus, the donghua only had one season before never being seen again, there was no live action or audio drama. To write in the genre is to face a system of persecution that cannot be penetrated.

And so, MDZS has a different tone when discussing systemic oppression. In fact, to contrast her first novel, it's a major theme. All of the characters are affected by systems of oppression, especially the class system. In MDZS, these systems causes much strife, and are never truly eliminated. The characters who oppose the system the most either leave larger society, or die. For this I'll bring up three characters, primarily: Xue Yang, Jin Guangyao, and Wei Wuxian.

Xue Yang, to start, is an orphan. He's a side character who doesn't get much screentime, but his existence offers a lot of insight into the larger systems of power, and how they affect people. He's largely a villain, a heartless murderer who takes joy in great acts of cruelty. However, it's not as though he has no reason for being like this; one of his childhood memories is of being tricked by a cruel adult, thinking he'll get candy as a reward, but in the end getting nothing but broken fingers as a reward, a child getting his hand run over by a cart. After learning demonic cultivation, of which he was a prodigy, he massacred the man who tricked him, who turned out to be a sect leader. Afterwards, he killed this man's entire clan.

Eventually, he was caught, and put to trial, but due to being seen as valuable by the Chief Cultivator at the time, he was held prisoner for life instead of the death sentence he was due. Due to reasons not particularly important to this essay, he later was cast out, injured, and was eventually taken in by a particular cultivator who had originally tried to prove his guilt, and who (for reasons indirectly but majorly related to Xue Yang) ended up blind: Xiao Xingchen. Because Xiao Xingchen did not recognize him, he treated Xue Yang with kindness. At first, Xue Yang used this to trick Xiao Xingchen into killing people, but at a certain point, stopped. It would seem that Xiao Xingchen's kindness affected him. However, when Xiao Xingchen's former partner, Song Lan, found them, Xue Yang tricked Xiao Xingchen into killing him. After realizing the truth of the situation, Xiao Xingchen killed himself, and Xue Yang started desperately trying to find a way to resurrect him.

There's a reason I took the time (and wordcount) to explain the situation in detail. In the story, we see a man who, like Shen Jiu in SVSSS, can be described with the meme, "cool motive, still murder." His past is sympathetic, but no excuse for his atrocities. However, after being shown kindness, he changes a bit. He stops killing people. But when there's a threat to that kindness, when he could lose what security and safety he has, he regresses back to his old behaviour, although he regrets it immediately. It's not as though he's innately evil, but that his history has taught him that being evil is the only way to survive, and he learned to enjoy his method of survival. The systems in place shaped a child who loved candy into a killer.

However, those at the bottom don't always end up so drastically terrible. Jin Guangyao also is of the dregs of society, the son of a prostitute, but he's something of a gentleman. After all, his mother wanted him to be a gentleman in terms of his character, and her final wish was for him to also be a gentleman in terms of his status, to be accepted by his father, sect leader of the Jin clan. But doing so requires terrible actions, as his status as a prostitute's son is very low. From being forced to shelter a known killer (Xue Yang) on his father's orders and against his sworn brother's wishes; to killing that sworn brother with the dual reasons of that sworn brother attempting to murder him multiple times (albeit under influence of a sort of curse), and because his father ordered him to kill the man; to being forced to choose between marrying his sister and losing everything, including possibly his life. In the end, he ends up killing his father after Jin Guangshan disrespects his mother one last time.

Despite this, however, one can argue that he is a gentleman. While cultivators in this setting hunt monsters for glory rather than to aid common people, he institutes a watchtower system that helps alleviate their plight. While there's no way to end his marriage, he both treats his wife (sister) kindly, while never having intimate conduct after he discovers the truth. After he takes power, he kicks out the murderer his father wanted to shelter. While he killed his oldest sworn brother, that was a person who would have kill him if he didn't act first, and he still treats that sworn brother's biological younger brother kindly, one may say spoiling him. In short, when he does not need to commit evil acts to survive, he usually acts virtuously, with the exception always involving honoring his mother.

However, in the end, he dies. Yet, not for something he did; he explicitly dies out of a false accusation of trying to kill someone he cared about, and dies an unjust death out of vengeance for killing his sworn brother. And when the jianghu learns of his evil, they're willing to accept that and more, because wasn't he always just an upstart, a son of a whore? Wasn't he born rotten, lower? Despite his best attempts, Jin Guangyao could never truly escape the shackles of the class system.

To end this (admittedly rather long) section, I'll discuss Wei Wuxian. Like Xue Yang, he's an orphan, but he was taken in by the leader of the Jiang Clan, who was a friend of his parents. Like Jin Guangyao, he was the son of someone lower class, in his case a servant, but he is treated kindly by his benefactor. His position is precarious, not quite a foster child and not quite a ward, but he still grows up among the gentry, accepted by sons of the gentry as one of them. However, even he is not immune from the systems in place. When the Wen clan, once the greatest clan, is deposed for being tyrannical, the members of the clan are unfairly persecuted for their leader's sins. When Wei Wuxian tries to go against the current and save them, he fails to go against all of the world on his own, and dies for his trouble, and all but one of the Wen clan are massacred.

When he is brought back to life, after getting involved again, he decides to leave, not get involved in fighting the cultivation world head on anymore, instead focusing on small change. The new generation can be taught to be kinder than their predecessors, and they are. The change is slow, but despite the grim tone of the book, it ends with hope that change will happen, the world will become kinder, just not fast enough that many of the cast will see it.

With all of this context, one can determine the following about systems in MDZS: They are undefeatable. Maybe, slowly, they can be changed, but a person cannot go against them without paying the ultimate price. Change is possible, but it is slow, and in the meantime, people will be hurt by the system in place. Systemic persecution is a large part of many people's lives, and this is an inevitable fact. A far less hopeless tone than SVSSS's, but more realistic. The change is from naive optimism to a more mature realism.

Now, it is difficult to overstate the effect of MDZS on the world. This book was adapted into the cdrama, "The Untamed", which was a worldwide success. Chinese historical dramas were once a niche genre, but now are one of the most popular genres worldwide. This drama led many people around the world to have an appreciation for Chinese stories, and led a global audience to discover the book it was based on, leading to more books in the danmei genre finding an international audience, which led to the current danmei boom. It's very likely that MDZS is the most popular danmei novel to have ever been written. The novel has been adapted into the live action drama mentioned before, as well as a manhua, a donghua, an audio drama. I've also heard of a Japanese manga adaptation currently being done.

Of course, this attention led to the Chinese government now having more of an eye on MXTX's actions. At this point, while she's more popular than ever, she's also under heavy scrutiny. But, look at what happened: Danmei is a genre that has led authors to being persecuted, but now here she is, influencing people with her works at such a large, international scale. Certainly something, isn't it?

Now I'll turn to her third book, Tian Guan Ci Fu (TGCF), or Heaven Official's Blessing. Thankfully, I don't have to give as much context for this one as MDZS. While large systems are in place that influence people's lives, they aren't unbeatable. The final battle of the book is even a large-scale revolution against the current power structure. While the system is powerful, and causes much harm to people, it is still ultimately a system created by people, and it can be deposed by people. The system pushes people to do evil deeds, but with people working together, being kind to each other and helping each other, that system can be stopped. In short, if SVSSS is naive optimism about systems of power not stopping people from being their true selves, and MDZS is pessimistic realism about systems being unbreakable and barely bendable, TGCF is grounded optimism. Systems of power are very real, and very harmful to many people, but they aren't an all-powerful force, they can be fought against. One person can't do everything, just like Xie Lian could not save his people from a plague and civil war by himself, but if many people work together, like the heavenly officials rising up against Jun Wu, something can be done.

Now, MXTX is quite possibly the most popular danmei author on an international scale. The danmei boom is probably at its peak, I can't really see it growing much more. She's largely gone silent, with rumors of her possibly being arrested at one point. While TGCF is also very popular, due to censorship constraints, it was forced to be less explicit than her other works. With everything that's happened, I'm interested to know what her fourth book will say about systems of power.

[joys-of-everyday]

On the fifty shades of morally grey

So quick thoughts on how MXTX writes morally grey.

Sorry, I mean, excessively long meta post on how MXTX writes morally grey. Light spoilers for all three books.

A gazillion caveats to begin with. Firstly, I don’t want to argue about whether character x is morally good, bad, grey, pink or whatever. In my books, arguing about whether someone is or is not morally grey is like arguing whether a colour is green, blue, teal, or turquoise – we’re arguing definitions. To add to that, I’m not saying that concepts like ‘this person is overall good’ doesn’t exist, but I would posit that a morally unquestionable person does not exist. Secondly, I also don’t want to pass moral judgements on any of the characters. That’s for a different post. I strictly want to focus on the storytelling techniques that make the reader think ‘hang on a second, are they good or bad?’. Thirdly, this whole post is mainly based on How Arcane Writes MORAL AMBIGUITY (9 Methods, 4 Rules) - YouTube. Great video, great channel (no knowledge of Arcane required). Would recommend if you are interested in story writing techniques!

1) The information gap and the poor narrator

Best example is Shen Jiu from SVSSS. We barely know anything about Shen Jiu. Almost everything we know is from SQQ’s notoriously unreliable perspective, so we’re left to fill in the gaps ourselves. Depending on exactly how those gaps are filled, you can get two completely different people. E.g. Did he have designs of NYY, or was he just ridiculously misunderstood? Who knows! We’re never told. Even if we were told, we should doubt it because it’s SQQ telling us.

2) 4D characterisation

Schnee’s video goes into this in more details, but this is where you build two narratives on top of one another. Best example is Jin Guangyao from MDZS. Is he an underdog who did what he could out of his situation and tried his best to be a better person working for the good of the common people? Or is he a selfish, manipulative, ambitious snake who at every stage pretends to be good in order to win the favour of those around him? The point is that both narratives make sense in the story. There are moments that lean more one way or another, but you can never quite pin him down completely.

3) Moments of weakness

Best example is Xie Lian from TGCF. On the whole, XL is a wonderful human being who you 100% want to root for. Except… there was that one time he made a mistake. He let his hurt and pain overcome him; he became hurtful himself. The point here is to add in just a few ‘moments’ which fundamentally impacts how the rest of the world perceives them from that point forwards. They are forever trying to redeem themselves, forever weighed down by what is a tiny proportion of their life. The underlying question is ‘is a moment of weakness a moral failure?’

Another good example is Qi Rong from TGCF. On the whole, he’s a piece of s***. But then there are moments when he’s a genuinely good father to Guzi, and that’s confusing.

4) Well-intentioned idiot

Trying to do the right thing and absolutely failing. Best example is Wei Wuxian from MDZS. His intentions are always good. There are extremely few moments where he is selfish or overly cruel. He is always fighting for justice, always self-sacrificing, always kind. And yet the outcome of his actions is pretty bad. The underlying question is ‘should you judge a person based on their intent, or on the consequences of their actions?’

(btw the name of the method is from schnee’s video. No shade on WWX. He is very smart… well, unless it comes to LWJ’s feelings.)

5) Excuses

Yes, they’re bad. But we feel sorry for them! Almost everyone fits into this boat, because doesn’t MXTX love trauma dumping? As one example, let’s look at Jiang Cheng from MDZS. JC’s behaviour towards WWX is pretty bad on its own. But given the context of his childhood being compared to him, of having his self-esteem brutally crushed by both parents? Knowing how much he’s done and sacrificed for him, how much he truly cared for him as family? It hits different.

A small point: ‘excuses aren’t enough’ we say a lot (and I agree, to an extent). But compare, for example, Jin Guangshan vs Xue Yang. JGS seems to be a power-hungry asshole for absolutely no reason. On the other hand, put XY in different circumstances and we feel like he might have been a better person. Just as food for thought, there was a Japanese monk Honen (1133-1212) who said: ‘The good person can reach the Pure Land, so of course the evil person can as well’. The point being that the people who struggle with anger and hate because of their circumstances are most in need of salvation.

6) World building and presenting hard questions

What is acceptable sacrifice in war?

Is it okay to make a super dangerous weapon for the sake of deterrence?

How much personal responsibility does someone hold for a lifetime of circumstances pushing them towards a morally questionable path?

What are the responsibilities of a leader – to do what is right, or to do what is best for their people?

The world of MDZS is imperfect. It’s full of horrors and disasters, as well as a mob of outsiders all trying to impart their opinions despite knowing little about the situation. An imperfect world presents unanswerable questions. We see the characters struggle with these questions, come to decisions, and make mistakes, all naturally arising within the complex world that’s been presented. 

TGCF does this most explicitly. We literally have Kemo and Pei Xiu arguing about the ethics of war and XL concluding that it’s a Hard Question. In fact, every backstory of every Heavenly Official presents a new Hard Question. I don’t know if I like this method over the more subtle style of MDZS, but I have Thoughts about the storytelling styles of both (long story short, I love them both for different reasons).

7) Worlds are colliding

A slightly complicated method that takes a huge amount of set up. To summarise, set up two arcs that we the reader both feel invested in. Then set up a point where the ‘good’ outcome of one is the ‘bad’ outcome of another. For MDZS, we have 1) JC and WWX’s brotherhood arc. 2) WWX standing up for justice arc. They’re both merrily developing all the way through the conflict with the Wens… right until the moment WWX has to make a choice: stand up for justice and leave JC behind, or to fulfil his promises to JC and turn a blind eye to the injustices against the Wens. The decision is a lose-lose scenario because of the way these arcs have been set up.

8) Spectrums, Spectrums, we love Spectrums

Gongyi Xiao is a cinnamon roll. As is Wen Ning and Quan Yizhen. Meanwhile, the Old Palace Master? Literally no redeeming qualities. Wen Chao? Absolute scum. Then there’s everyone lying somewhere in between. We like Lan Wangji more than JC (I think that seems to be the case for most people?) but we certainly like JC more than JGS. Having a spectrum of morality is important because it gives us reference points to contrast and compare. It also emphasises the moral greyness of everything, because sure, Mu Qing isn’t a noodle like Shi Qingxuan, but is he worse than White No Face?

9) Spectrums aren’t enough – adding depth

Almost all of WWX’s moral ambiguity comes from the fact he has hard decisions to make. And for each of these decisions, the outcome is murky. He developed a new technique to fight against the Wens, but at what cost later down the line? He defended the Wens and gave them a few years of life, but was it worth it?

Compare with JGY. JGY does a lot of good. He also does a lot of bad. The magnitude of both lists is ridiculous. Sure, you wouldn’t usually find someone who’s killed most of their family members in any way likable, but how often do you come across someone who literally ended a war?

So one way of creating moral ambiguity is to make each decision difficult, but another way to go about it is to just… make them do loads of things. Like loads of things. Good things, bad things, all the in between things. Judging each thing is not that hard, but then trying to judge the overall person based on it is extremely difficult.

10) Pulling from the real world

Often, moral questions in fiction is hard because (surprise, surprise) moral questions are just hard full stop. Idk enough Chinese history and culture to accurately pin down all of MXTX’s references, but things like stupid misunderstands leading to conflict, poverty and inequality, less than ideal family situations, the horrors of war… these are all things that happen irl. No matter how fantastical the setting, grounding moral conflicts in reality makes us feel more emotional and invested.

Anyway, I hope that was an enjoyable rundown! This is an imperfect list, so comments, criticisms, suggestions greatly appreciated!

[malsperanza]

Rereading Heaven Official's Blessing - spoilers here

I love rereading books, especially for the first time, when I see so many connections I missed on the first read. The first time you read a book, you're intent on discovering what happens next, worrying about the characters, and skipping past things you don't fully understand.

The first reread is all about looking at the structure, the patterns, the way things unfold, and learning more about character motivations. MXTX is a master at the meta, and she loves to seed innumerable hints and clues in her books, knowing they will not mean anything until the second reading. Plus, she lies like a rug and leaves out key info. This makes a first reread loads of fun.

Seven Seas edition, volume 1, p. 369:

At the end of the Banyue arc Xie Lian and Hua Cheng are finally alone in Puqi Shrine, and Xie Lian has let HC know that he knows who he is. Things are peaceful, and we finally get a sweet moment of flirting - which we have been hoping for through the whole volume. So is it any wonder that we completely miss the massive foreshadowing?

Xie Lian is unburdening some of his most private thoughts, memories of the past, and feelings about his history to this man he has just met. And HC is coming close to declaring why he is XL's devotee.

After a while, San Lang said quietly, "Something like saving the common people, it really doesn't matter how you do it. But, although brave, it's foolish." "Yeah," Xie Lian agreed. Hua Cheng continued, "Although foolish, it's brave." "..." "Xie Lian grinned. "Thanks." "You're welcome," Hua Cheng said. The two stared at the holey ceiling of Puqi Shrine in amiable silence, and Hua Cheng spoke up again after a while. "You know, Your Highness, we've only known each other for a few days. Is it all right for you to say so much to me?" "Well," Xie Lian huffed, "what's the problem? Whatever. Those who have known each other for decades can become strangers in a day. We met by chance, and we may part by chance. If we like each other, then we shall continue to meet; if we don't, then we shall part. At the end of the day, there's no banquet in the world that doesn't come to an end."

And now vol. 8, p. 118:

Xie Lian could no longer hold back the tears in his eyes, and they began to pour. As if he were hanging on to the last thread of his life, he pleaded, "You said ... you would never leave me." But Hua Cheng replied, "There is no banquet in this world that doesn't come to an end."

MXTX, you absolute fucking sadist.

The entirety of Xie Lian's little lighthearted comment, "Those who have known each other for decades can become strangers in a day. We met by chance, and we may part by chance" is the whole backstory of who HC is and is the absolutely most incorrect thing XL has ever said.

The space between vol. 1 and vol. 8 is so vast that there's no way to remember that HC is quoting XL when he is dying, which means that MXTX has built the necessity to reread into the book.

I'm also continuing to notice how often Hua Cheng is described as smiling, laughing, chuckling, snickering. If Xie Lian ever should happen to wonder whether he should laugh or cry, Hua Cheng has the answer.

[jooniely]

I'm kinda surprised I haven't come across any meta about class in mxtx's works. She the type of writer who hides a lot of her themes so the reader has to pay attention to see and understand it.

In svsss our main character is someone who presumably lived a comfortable life and didn't have to worry about his financial situation. He gets transmigrated to sqq who has already gotten himself to a comfortable position so SY doesn't have to really work for anything in that regard. He's shown to have little sympathy towards SJ when he becomes aware of his life full of struggle as well as towards Airplane who had to sell out in order to make a living. You could argue ofc that it's cuz he's upset he's living thru the story but so is Airplane! And it's not really his fault lol.

Anyways the only person he seems to have empathy for in this regard is binghe but his empathy is about the abuse binghe suffered rather than the poverty he went thru (as far as I can remember at least, please correct me if I'm wrong)

Then there's mu qing and wwx and xue yang and jin guangyao and hua cheng and xie lian and fengxin (there might be more but i cant remember right now. I do remember that a lot of tgcf characters had hone thru poverty). Each of them have gone thru extreme poverty and it has affected them majorly in some cases and very subtly in others.

Despite so many characters going thru it I personally haven't seen much meta and analysis about class especially given how much it affects the characters and drives the plot. (Other than for jin guangyao since that's a big part of his arc)

I was thinking about svsss so I kinda extended it for that novel but there's still so much to look at when it comes to all of mxtx's work so I hope I see more!

[areadersuncertaintyprinciple]

Xie Lian and his morality makes for interesting discussions on the so-called moral compass

This is basically two metas, Xie Lian’s morality + evolution of his morality, packaged as one because I was too emotionally exhausted to untangle them

Throughout "Tian Guan Ci Fu," Xie Lian is portrayed as a character with a strong sense of compassion, empathy, and a desire to do what is right. His moral compass is guided by his core values of kindness, selflessness, and justice and  he consistently demonstrates a willingness to help others, even at great personal cost.

As a young prince/god, he initially exhibits a somewhat naive and idealistic perspective on morality, shaped by his sheltered upbringing and limited exposure to the complexities of the world. However, after spending 800 years in the mortal realm and facing numerous trials and tribulations, his morality undergoes a notable evolution and maturation.

While his core values of compassion, selflessness, and justice remain steadfast throughout the entire story, he embraces a deeper understanding of personal responsibility. He acknowledges that he cannot save everyone or single-handedly resolve all injustices. However, he remains committed to doing what he can within his capacity, focusing on the individuals and causes that he can positively impact. He recognizes that sometimes difficult choices must be made and that the outcomes may not always align perfectly with his ideals. He becomes more pragmatic in his decision-making, considering long-term consequences in his moral deliberations.

As Xie Lian navigates the mortal realm and encounters various individuals with differing motivations and moral perspectives, he starts to recognize the shades of gray that exist in ethical decision-making. He learns that the world is not simply divided into right and wrong, but rather a complex interplay of circumstances, intentions, and consequences.

Additionally, Xie Lian's moral compass is not without its own internal conflicts. He grapples with his own past mistakes and failures, questioning whether he is truly deserving of his revered status and struggling with feelings of guilt and self-doubt. This self-reflection adds depth to his character and prompts discussions on the nature of morality, personal growth, and the importance of self-forgiveness.

However, what makes Xie Lian's morality particularly interesting is the way it challenges traditional notions of right and wrong. His innate compassion and empathy remain central to his morality throughout the story. As he matures, he learns to extend these qualities not just to those he deems deserving but also to those who have made mistakes or are considered morally compromised. His ability to see the good in people, even in the face of their flaws, prompts reflection on the complexities of human nature and the potential for redemption. 

Xie Lian's moral journey also invites exploration of moral relativism and the idea that morality can be subjective and context-dependent. His actions and decisions are influenced by the specific circumstances he faces, the motivations of other characters, and the consequences of his choices. This opens up discussions on the fluidity and subjectivity of morality and the notion that there might not be a universal moral standard.

[navarice]

mxtx really writes the most violently disgusting body horror known in existence because some of her prime examples include the flesh-burrowing plants in svsss that literally climb into your bloodstream and take root to turn you into a literal conifer plant. like the blinding pain sq describes when he had to tear out the roots from his flesh almost made me black out and disassociate. and then in mdzs it was the descriptions of the endless corpses and gore. or in the xuanwu of slaughter and the soup of blood, flesh, guts, and stomach acid of the turtle that wwx had to crawl through. i hope the sects have very reliable doctors because just thinking about the diseases one can get from all that…yuck.

but nothing. absolutely NOTHING can compare to the events leading to the human faces disease in tgcf. first, the descriptions of the crushed child under his father's body when they fell from the wall…it was so casually described that I had to first let it sink in before the shock took over. then the actual disease. the unimaginable fear, raw disgust, and sheer horror of everything were so visceral that I couldn’t touch any dip or crevice in my body without wanting to rip it off. literal stuff of nightmares can’t compare to how i couldn’t look at a hole in the ground for too long because it made me think of the face chewing grass on that one man’s leg. and then…that’s not even the worst of it. if reading abt the disease made me want to rip off my skin, then reading the hundred swords part made me feel so hollow that i felt like I needed to squeeze my guts into my body so they don’t fall away. each word describing it was a piercing stab followed by an aching fire of wounds that will never heal.

it makes me really wonder how strong a person must be to endure all that and more because if only reading such things elicits this strong of a response, then what about living it?

[piedoctorcow]

Xiao Xingchen is an interesting character, but he’s not entirely unique in his disposition and subsequent downfall. The most obvious parallel is the one that Wei Wuxian makes between himself and Xiao Xingchen (“In that moment, Wei Wuxian saw himself in Xiao Xingchen…” pg. 156). However, Xiao Xingchen has a lot in common with Xie Lian, specifically his first ascension and fall. Everything that Xue Yang says to Xiao Xingchen in their final confrontation can be said of Xie Lian.

Xue Yang says, “if you don’t know how this works works, then don’t enter it” (153). This sums up the criticism Xie Lian largely received when interfering in the Xianle/Yong’an war. He didn’t understand that you can’t walk away from a war with no casualties, and he didn’t understand how to effectively govern a kingdom. Furthermore, the Holy Temple in which he trained was literally on a mountain, much like Xiao Xingchen’s origins.

Xue Yang says, “save the world! What a joke, you can’t even save yourself!” and “you’ve accomplished nothing! Failed utterly! You only have yourself to blame! You reap what you sow!” (156). This is fairly self-explanatory in the context of Xie Lian’s first fall from grace and the period of struggle directly after.

The fact that Xiao Xingchen parallels two of the MXTX protagonists is interesting. I very vaguely remember hearing that the Xiao Xingchen story was something MXTX had come up with in high school. Then, it makes sense that his character is as such, and might point to somewhat formulaic (not that it’s bad) writing on the part of MXTX.

Thought complete, goodbye.

[sonik-kun]

Love that the latest audio piece made Jiang Cheng doing embroidery canon 🥹

I wonder what he had embroidered on his robes? And whether it was his sister who had taught him how to do it in the first place? 🥺

Or maybe he got into embroidery due to many sleepless nights after losing his sister? And he needed something to keep himself busy whenever he finished his paperwork? Perhaps it was a hobby he adopted to make him feel closer to his sister? 😭😭

[thatswhatsushesaid]

no shade at mxtx but I could not give less of a fuck about what she has to say about wei wuxian, or shen yuan, or xie lian, outside of the literal texts in which they appear, because that is the only space her words carry more weight than anyone else's when it comes to understanding the characters and the worlds they inhabit. anything else she has to say is just commentary, which has its place--but that place is not in a close reading of the source text. her commentary does not fundamentally change anything about the text as it appears once published, and it does not invalidate contradictory interpretations that can be backed up through a close reading of the source text.

this is how literary critique works. this is how we critically engage with the written word as art, because authorial intent will only ever cover a fraction of the themes and motifs and prejudices and biases that will nevertheless make their way into the text, consciously or otherwise. that the author did not intentionally weave those themes and motifs and prejudices and biases into their work does not matter. they are still present in the text, and as such, they are fair game for analysis and engagement.

can't believe I have to say this to people who have definitely read or written canonically defensible lotr fanfiction about frodo getting fucked by sam but here we are I guess.

[mycatwantstoeatpins]

Index for Mo Xiang Tong Xiu's interview with Risa Wataya, translated by Sythe / NPD Khanh:

Part One

Part Two

Part Three

Part Four

Part Five

Part Six

Part Seven

Part Eight

[queerlyloud]

To continue my random intermittent mxtx posting binges, I am once again sozzled and watching cql and I just noticed something I've never realized before and it punched me in the solar plexus. So we all remember the scene where Wei Wuxian gives Wen Qing the special satchet to protect Wen Ning, and we see how she hold it in her hands and lightly caresses it, right before the camera cuts away to Jiang Wanyin BUYING HER A GIFT.

MAJOR CQL/MDZS SPOILERS AHEAD!!!

Okay, so we know that Jiang Wanyin and Wei Wuxian are narrative foils in a lot of ways but one way I never noticed was that they even juxtapose how Wei Wuxian and Jiang Wanyin each desire to befriend Wen Qing and how they approach that with a gift. Wei Wuxian's attempt to befriend Wen Qing is so overtly unsexual that I never even realized these two scenes were side by side so we can see the differences in how they view and approach Wen Qing. Neither of them know her yet, but they both want to for different reasons. So I want to do a quick side-by-side comparison and breakdown of how the gift giving foreshadowed the entirety of each character's arcs with Wen Qing.

1. The Initiative of Each Approach:

1a. Wei Wuxian approached Wen Qing in the chamber where she was tending her sick brother. He went out of his way and made the actual real effort to visit and speak to her about her brother and had even thought enough about doing it beforehand to prepare a handmade gift specifically for her brother. This required a lot of thought and action already, and he doesn't even know if she'll give him the chance to know them yet. He's already investing real time and energy into a potential relationship with them.

1b. Jiang Wanyin's awakened interest was caused by a chance encounter, and the effort he makes is by chance, too, at a time that is convenient to him since he was already strolling in the market. He did have to work up the courage to approach the stall and buy the comb, but he is so mortified and worried about how other people might see him that he dithers long enough for us to not even see him actually purchase the comb. Like all his future efforts with Wen Qing, he will only do what is convenient and will only do it where it is invisible and no one can say anything to him about it. When it comes to how other people see him, he waits too long and thus loses his chance.

2. The Motivation of Each Approach:

2a. Wei Wuxian is not interested in Wen Qing for her own sake. Instead, he is concerned about her younger brother being ill and in the middle of a brewing conflict. Wei Wuxian looked at Wen Ning, saw an innocent young man in trouble, and decided that there was no other recourse than to offer his aid to the boy's more world wise elder sister with whom he could work to protect Wen Ning. Wei Wuxian may have poked at Wen Qing while she was poking around where she shouldn't have been on the back hill, but what ultimately drove him to seek her approval was the desire to save her brother.

2b. Jiang Wanyin's interest, on the other hand, is purely in Wen Qing, the pretty and talented young doctor. He purchases a comb in her colors, an aesthetic choice that showed that he recognized her background, and in a shape (the comb itself) that expressed romantic interest. His interest was only ever in Wen Qing, never in anyone that belonged to her.

3. The Ultility of Each Approach:

3a. Wei Wuxian's gift is a functional item that he himself took the time to handmake specifically to serve a purpose that is important to Wen Qing. Again, he had to think about what would be useful to them, gather the materials, craft it, and then approach them to offer it with the full understanding that the gift might be refused.

3b. Jiang Wanyin did what any normal teenager with a crush would do and saw a thing that reminded him of his crush and bought it for her with no idea if it would be useful to her. I cannot emphasize how normal and healthy this perfectly average teenage behavior was, I'll give this one to Jiang Wanyin, 100/10, you are living the teenage experience, good job, king, so proud of you for this. But it was, unfortunately, not the correct approach for Wen Qing who is already a traumatized war hostage in her own sect at this point (Wei Wuxian and Wen Qing's complementary instinctive trauma bonding is a topic for another post).

4. The Reception of Each Approach:

4a. Although she was suspicious and afraid, Wen Qing still ended up accepting Wei Wuxian's gift because, even if she didn't yet know where she would end up during the war, Wei Wuxian still managed to convince her even in that one interaction that he only wanted to help her younger brother. Wen Qing had her brother continue to carry that protective item even after he died.

4b. It is important to note that Wen Qing did not reject Jiang Wanyin's attempt outright. She gave him time and chances to prove that his gift was more than it seemed, that it could mean something more than just a gifted comb. Ultimately, because Jiang Wanyin fails to rise to the opportunities Wen Qing allows him, she ends up rejecting his gift because in the end, whatever feelings the comb represented meant nothing when they were not backed by action.

5. The Conclusion of Each Approach:

5a. From the beginning, Wei Wuxian acted in the interest of people under Wen Qing's protection. He worked alongside her to protect the people she loved all the way to the end, just like he gave Wen Ning the gift that remained with him until and beyond his death.

5b. Jiang Wanyin hesitated to take action on Wen Qing's behalf because he was too afraid of what others would think of him. He thought only of Wen Qing, giving her a gift that was just for her and generally aesthetic rather than functional. No matter how real the feelings or good the intentions, the gift was useless to her and she rejected it outright once she knew that for sure.

Ultimately, the way to Wen Qing's heart, for better or worse, has always been her people, and Wei Wuxian, with no other motives or intentions, helped her protect them from the very first day of their friendship and continued to do so long after she left the world. And the way they foreshadowed all of that with just those two scenes is so cool, 100000000/10, will watch this show smashed again and again and again.