#novel jc

[sonik-kun]

Jiang Cheng never brought up his own sacrifice because he didn't want Wei Wuxian to feel indebted to him again, not because it would make his own sacrifice obsolete.

He wanted to let him go so he could be free to live with Lan Wangji and maybe to hopefully even start afresh again.

Jin Ling, who knows his uncle well, even acknowledges that he wanted to say something to Wei Wuxian when the pair left.

Jiang Cheng is a selfless person for this reason. He knew how much it would destroy Wei Wuxian if he told him what really happened.

He never held his sacrifice over him in that moment. He never held it over him in the core reveal scene. And he never held it over him even when their tensions first started when Wei Wuxian decided to protect the Wen and left him for a sect that tried to destroy his own.

Jiang Cheng kept that secret to himself because he understood Wei Wuxian and ultimately because he loves him. He doesn't want Wei Wuxian to owe him anything, and he doesn't want him to feel indebted to him. All he wanted was his bro back. And even then, he let Wei Wuxian go in the end because he saw that that was what he wanted.

Jiang Cheng and Wei Wuxian both decided to move on in the end so they can grow into better people. The JC antis in this tag, who keep bringing up the same discourse, should do the same thing. They might feel relief if they do. 🥰

[the-roaring-of-the-gale]

[qiu-yan]

MDZS and asshole victims: thoughts on the second siege of the burial mounds scene

this post is not about morality judgments. this post is about reader sympathies only.

one rather clever rhetorical trick MDZS employs is putting all the more background "surviving victims of wei wuxian's actions" into one big angry mob at the second siege of the burial mounds, instead of letting them crop up anywhere else in the story. it's easy for a first-time reader to write off the guy who lost a leg at nightless city, or the guy whose parents died at nightless city, because both of those guys are being dicks. they're part of an angry mob baying for wei wuxian's blood--unfairly baying for wei wuxian's blood, because this time he didn't even do the thing they're saying he did. by putting these two victims into a mob of not just fellow victims but also unaffected individuals (ie. sect leader yao, who just showed up for kicks), the story can effectively equate these victims' grievances (ie. "you killed my parents") with unreasonable mob rule--even if these two things might not actually be equivalent.

the effect of this rhetorical trick, then, is that the reader can at once perceive the themes about mob mentality MXTX wishes to convey, and also effectively write off the victims' complaints. "yes, i did that to you, but i literally died already, what more do you want me to do? shall i walk on my knees repenting?" becomes easier for the reader to accept. and more importantly--wei wuxian's likability as a moral and just protagonist is not impacted.

ngl tho. it would be a bit more difficult for the reader to write off these victims' complaints if, instead of meeting said victims in an angry mob, the reader instead met these victims almost anywhere else. imagine if, instead of meeting mr. "you killed my parents" at the second siege of the burial mounds, we instead met him getting smashed at the local bar and crying about how his parents are dead. imagine if, instead of meeting mr. "you chopped off my leg" as a member of an angry mob, we instead met him begging for alms on the side of the road because his disability rendered him unable to work in a wuxia-esque setting. or imagine--if either of these background characters, overcome with survivor's guilt and trauma from nightless city, hung himself in his bedroom, and the next day his body was discovered by his 15-year-old daughter.

all of these scenarios are entirely plausible. you could easily include any of them into the story without changing the main plot at all. but suddenly shit just got a lot more depressing.

however, no such scene would ever be included in MDZS. the reason is that, as a work of fiction, MDZS's single most ardent goal is for us the readers to conclude not just that "we like wei wuxian as a character," but also that "wei wuxian is ultimately a morally righteous person." when the narrative focus shifts onto the people who were actually helped by wei wuxian's actions (mianmian and her family, lan sizhui, the few months of dignity the wen remnants were afforded) this becomes much easier for us to conclude; wei wuxian does indeed look like a hero. but the more narrative focus is given to the negative impacts of wei wuxian's actions--the more the "victims of wei wuxian" (whether actual victims or not) are given a face, instead of abstracted away by broad summaries--the more the reader might side-eye wei wuxian instead. every new victim given a name, given narrative attention that isn't just focused on making them look like an asshole, arouses the reader's sympathies in the opposite direction--and thus increases the risk that the reader might ultimately disagree with the novel's conclusion of "wei wuxian is a righteous person."

tbh, this does not seem like a risk MXTX particularly wants to take. instead, she's mastered the art of writing Asshole Victims.

which is an entirely valid writing decision, because imo basically every work of genre fiction out there does this to some extent.

[lancabbage]

Personally, I think the real reason people keep insisting MDZS is told from WWX's POV, even though they admit it's third person omniscient, is because JC is addressed by his birth name 'Jiang Cheng' throughout the entire novel and not his courtesy name. So people wrongly assume it must be from WWX's perspective...

Well, those that cling to such a take aren't going to like the real answer to this... But that's still not the case. If it were from WWX's perspective, JYL would be addressed as 'Shijie', LWJ would be 'Lan Zhan' and JFM would be 'Jiang-shushu' etc. JC is addressed by his birth name throughout the novel because even the narrator thinks he is a clown.

Sorry, but that's the reason. They do not think he deserves respect, just as the rest of the cultivation world doesn't either. If you actually look at the text, you'll notice behind his back, nearly everyone calls JC by his birth name out of disrespect - it's literally in the first few chapters for all to see. He's rarely called by his courtesy name by anyone other than LWJ, WWX when he's pissed and later by JGY and XY in the extras. That's it. It's a show of disrespect throughout the novel and the narrator shows the same. JC isn't called 'Sandu Shengshou' for nothing you know, it's a running theme of disrespect for a character that doesn't deserve much if any at all.

[lgbtlunaverse]

Horrible thing to say but I think there's a real chance Jiang Yanli was both of her parents' least favorite child and knew it and just kinda. Had to go on with her life knowing that.

[lavender-phoenix-flames]

People always depicting jiang cheng as the mature one and Wei wuxian as the immature one is so funny cuz not a single character on mdzs ever referred to jc as mature or wise, it was always the other way around lol

[mxtxfanatic]

"Jin Ling wasn't abused! Jiang Cheng was the perfect uncle to him, and Jin Ling would never doubt that—"

Hey, quick question: how come Jin Ling hesitates to go to Jiang Cheng during the second siege despite all the other boys immediately and unhesitatingly running to embrace their relatives when the adults arrive?

These cultivators, including Jiang Cheng, all bathed in blood, their faces tired. All of the boys rushed outside the cave, shouting, “Dad!” “Mom!” “Brother!” They were embraced into the crowd. Jin Ling looked left and right, as though he still hadn’t decided yet. Jiang Cheng’s voice was harsh, “Jin Ling, why are you so slow? What are you taking your time for? Do you want to die?!”

—Chapt. 68: Tenderness, exr

[yingandzhan]

Something just got me thinking...

Suibian is a truly loyal sword, it refused to let anyone else use it and did what was only ever heard of in legends and sealed itself away when its master died!

The sword is monogamous. It only connected with one person and no one else would do. No one else could compare.

Spiritual weapons have a deep connection with their wielders, they are constantly permeated with their owner's spiritual energy. They are, in a way, an extension of their master.

So, it makes perfect sense that Suibian is monogamous. Because it's quite obvious that WWX is as well. WWX only ever had eyes for one person, he only ever connected to one other person in such a deep, life changing way. No one else would do, no one else could ever compare to that boy that stole his undivided attention on the Cloud Recesses rooftop the first night they met.

It was always LWJ for him, just as it was always WWX for Suibian.

Like master, like sword.

[barawrah]

nie siblings doodle

[whumpbby]

Why do people keep insisting that Jiang Cheng killed Wei Wuxian???

[vibrantvetty]

he's a tease

[sonik-kun]

The fact that Jiang Cheng is described as looking more like Jin Ling's older brother, the latter having adopted his mannerisms and "tsundere" attitude just shows how close these two are.

Wei Wuxian even acknowledges it when he teases Jin Ling for his dog's name which he observed was similar to Jiang Cheng's.

Then, at the end of the book, Wei Wuxian quickly recognises that Jin Ling just wants to protect his JiuJiu from political enemies. Likewise, Jiang Cheng wanted to protect Jin Ling and keep his position as a new sect leader safe and secure. He wants him to have a protective adult figure in his life that can guide him because Jiang Cheng was deprived of this when he first started as sect leader. 🥺

They truly are all they have, and I love their relationship so much 😭😭

Jiang Yanli would be so proud of them 🥹

[spottedgardeneelstan]

normal jiang brother activities <3

[dephoraowo]

I feel like some people in the fandom need to go read a dictionary because where on earth does the novel even show Wei Wuxian having a hero complex?

The novel literally shows the opposite:

The suction from within Biling Lake was growing progressively more powerful. While Wei Wuxian’s sword excelled in dexterity and agility, a lack of strength just happened to be its weakness, and it was forcefully pulled to lower and lower altitudes until it was close to the surface of the lake.

Wei Wuxian steadied himself while yanking on Su She with both hands, shouting, “Somebody come help! If I can’t get him up, I’m gonna have to let go!”

And this:

“Stand back,” Lan Wangji said. “You are not needed here.”

Wei Wuxian humbly took his advice and backed off. He backed all the way to the entrance and took a peek outside. Wen Ning was in the middle of stoically strangling Song Lan, lifting the man by his neck and slamming him into the wall, creating a giant man-shaped hole in the process. Song Lan, also expressionless, seized Wen Ning’s wrist and flipped him over, crashing him into the ground. Loud, incessant bangs and booms accompanied the battle between the two stone-faced fierce corpses. Neither side could feel pain, nor were they afraid of injuries. Unless they were cut to pieces, they could keep fighting no matter how many limbs they broke.

“There doesn’t seem to be a need for me here either,” Wei Wuxian mumbled to himself.

If the fandom is so desperate for a guy with a hero complex, they don't even need to worry. We already do! In fact, mxtx was so generous, she literally gave us two!

Wei Wuxian was observing the terrain as he fled around, setting off flames. Suddenly, a sharp pain stabbed through his arm. He looked down to see he had been shot by an arrow.

As it turned out, the Lan sect disciple whom Lan Wangji had glared at earlier had found a bow and arrow abandoned by the Wens and tried to shoot at the yao beast. Perhaps because of the beast’s fearsome savagery and agility, the boy’s hands were panicked and unsteady, and the shot had flown astray and pierced Wei Wuxian instead.

Wei Wuxian had no time to pull it out. He struck the ground again, calling forth another surge of flames.

“Back off! Don’t make more work for me!”

The sect disciple had wanted to fell the yao beast with a single shot to its vital spot, in hopes of regaining some of the face he’d lost earlier. Who could’ve thought it would turn out like this? His face flushed progressively paler as he fled into the water.

Let's not forget this scene:

Before walking away, Wei Wuxian repeatedly exhorted him to sit still and not to move. At least they weren’t too short of money—he had a habit of hiding small change in various corners of his clothes, which came in handy now. He walked around and bought food and dry rations to prepare for the long journey ahead. It took him less than an incense time to grab everything, after which he immediately returned to the spot where they’d separated.

But Jiang Cheng was gone.

...

Jiang Cheng struck a palm at him. The strike was so weak and feeble that Wei Wuxian did not even sway.

“Hit me all you want. As long as it makes you feel better.”

“Did you feel it?” Jiang Cheng asked.

Wei Wuxian was momentarily taken aback. “What? Feel what?”

“My spiritual power. Did you feel it?” Jiang Cheng pressed him.

“What spiritual power?” Wei Wuxian asked. “You didn’t use spiritual power at all.”

“I did.”

“What exactly… What did you say?”

Jiang Cheng repeated himself word for word. “I said, I used it. I used all my spiritual power and then some for that strike. So I’m asking you—did you feel it?”

Wei Wuxian stared at him, falling quiet. After a moment, he said, “Try hitting me again.”

“Forget it,” Jiang Cheng told him. “No matter how many times I hit you, the result will be the same. Wei Wuxian, do you know why Core-Melting Hand is called that?”

Wei Wuxian’s heart sank.

“Because his hands can dissolve golden cores and render the victims unable to form new ones,” Jiang Cheng continued. “Their spiritual power will dissipate, reducing them to nothing more than ordinary humans. And an ordinary human in a cultivation clan is good for nothing. They can only live out the rest of their common lives, abandoning all dreams of ever ascending higher.

“Wen Zhuliu dissolved Mom and Father’s golden cores. Once they lost the ability to fight back, he killed them.”

Wei Wuxian’s mind was in turmoil. At a loss as to what to do, he murmured, “…Core-Melting Hand… Core-Melting Hand…”

Jiang Cheng laughed grimly. “Wen Zhuliu, Wen Zhuliu. I want to seek revenge. I have to. But how can I? I don’t even have a golden core anymore, and I’ll never be able to form a new one again. So how am I going to take revenge? Ha ha ha ha ha ha, ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha…”

Wei Wuxian’s legs gave out from under him. He stared at Jiang Cheng, who seemed to have gone insane. Words failed him.

No one knew better than him just how competitive Jiang Cheng was. How much he valued his own cultivation and spiritual power. And with a single strike, Core-Melting Hand had shattered his cultivation, self-esteem, and hope for revenge to smithereens!

Jiang Cheng howled with laughter like a madman. He lay back down on the bed with his arms spread open and abandoned himself to despair. “Wei Wuxian, why did you save me? What’s the point of saving me? To let me live on uselessly while I watch the Wen dogs run rampant?”

...

Though awake, he remained motionless, not even flipping over and asking where they were. He wouldn’t eat or drink. It was as if he was interested only in dying.

“Do you really want to die?” Wei Wuxian asked.

“I can’t get revenge even if I live, so I might as well die. Who knows, maybe I can even turn into a malicious ghost,” Jiang Cheng said.

“You’ve gone through Soul-Tranquilization Rites since you were a kid. Even if you die, you won’t turn into a malicious ghost,” Wei Wuxian commented.

“Since I can’t seek revenge dead or alive, what difference does it make if I live or die?”

After that, Jiang Cheng didn’t speak again.

...

Jiang Cheng’s mind and face were both racked with confusion. “Then why was I able to pull it out?”

“Because the sword recognizes you as Wei-gongzi,” Wen Ning answered.

Lan Wangji stood up, lifting an unconscious Wei Wuxian on his back.

“What do you mean, it recognizes me as Wei Wuxian?” Jiang Cheng snapped. “How?! Why me?!”

“Because the golden core presently channeling spiritual power in your body is his!” Wen Ning snapped back, even harsher.

...

“Your golden core was never restored,” Wen Ning said. “It was completely dissolved by Wen Zhuliu! The reason you thought it was restored was because my jiejie, Wen Qing—the best doctor of the Wen Clan of Qishan—cut Wei-gongzi’s golden core from his body and used it to replace yours!”

Jiang Cheng’s face went blank for a second. “Replaced mine with his?”

“That’s right!” Wen Ning said. “Why do you think he never used Suibian again, and never carried his sword with him when he went out? Was it really because of some youthful indiscretion? Did he really enjoy it when others spoke ill of him behind his back or to his face, saying he was rude and had a poor upbringing? It was because bringing it along would be pointless! You see…if he brought his sword along when he was invited to those banquets and Night Hunts, there would inevitably be someone wanting to duel or spar with him for whatever reason. Without his golden core, he had no spiritual power. If he drew his sword, he wouldn’t last long at all…”

Jiang Cheng stood dumbly rooted to the spot. He looked queasy, and his lips quivered. He even forgot to use Zidian as he suddenly dropped Suibian to the ground and struck Wen Ning on the chest with his hand.

“You’re lying!” he bellowed.Wen Ning was forced a couple steps back from the blow. He picked up Suibian from the ground, sheathed it, and pushed it against Jiang Cheng’s chest.

“Take it!”

Jiang Cheng unconsciously took the sword. He didn’t move but looked at a loss as his gaze turned toward Wei Wuxian. He would have been fine if he hadn’t looked. But when he did, Wei Wuxian’s despondent expression and ghastly pale face—with blood still gathered at the corners of his mouth—was like a hammer smashing his heart. Moreover, Lan Wangji’s gaze chilled him so keenly he felt like he had plunged into a frozen cavern.

“Take that sword and go to the banquet hall, the drilling grounds, anywhere,” Wen Ning said. “Order everyone you come across to pull it from its sheath and see if anyone can! Then you’ll see if I’m lying! Sect Leader Jiang, you…you are such a competitive person. All your life, you have been competing with and comparing yourself to others. But know this—you could never have compared to him!”

...

Out of the blue, Lan Wangji asked, “Is it painful?”

“What?” Wen Ning said.

“Extracting one’s core. Is it painful?”

“Lan-gongzi. You wouldn’t believe me if I told you no, would you?”

“I assumed Wen Qing would have found a way.”

“Before going up the mountain, my jiejie prepared many anesthetics in hopes of alleviating the pain of extracting his core. But later, she realized such medication would be completely useless. If the subject is in a numbed state when the golden core is extracted from the body, it affects the core’s stability. It becomes harder to prevent it from dissipating.”

“…Therefore?” Lan Wangji probed.

Wen Ning pausing in his rowing. “Therefore, the subject of the golden core extraction procedure has to be completely conscious for its full duration.”

He had to be conscious as he watched his golden core be cut from his meridians and extracted from his body. He had to feel his surging spiritual energy gradually subsiding, calming, turning ordinary—until it became a pool of stagnant water that could no longer make waves.

It was a long time before Lan Wangji found his voice again. It was a little raspy, and the words he spoke seemed to tremble. “Its full duration?”

“For one day and two nights,” Wen Ning said. “He remained conscious throughout.”

“At the time, how confident were you of success?”

“About fifty percent.”

“Fifty percent.” Lan Wangji soundlessly drew a deep breath and shook his head. He repeated, “…Fifty percent.”

His hand tightened its hold on Wei Wuxian’s waist, gripping so hard his knuckles turned white.

“After all, no one had ever conducted any sort of core-swapping procedure before,” Wen Ning said. “My jiejie had written essays on the subject, but they were only theoretical. No one would ever let her experiment on them, so the theories remained untested. The sect’s seniors said she was indulging in flights of fancy, that the idea was completely impractical. They knew no one would ever be willing to extract their golden core and give it to someone else—because if they did, they would be fundamentally crippled. They would never reach the pinnacle of their ability but would remain mediocre the rest of their life.

“So when Wei-gongzi returned to seek us out, my jiejie was reluctant to even attempt the procedure, at first. She warned him that writing an essay was one thing, but actually doing it was quite another. She wasn’t even confident she’d have a fifty percent chance of success.

“But Wei-gongzi kept pestering her. He said fifty percent was fine; the chances of success and failure were equal. Even if it didn’t work out and his core was wasted, he wasn’t worried about his future—but that wasn’t the case for Sect Leader Jiang. He was too competitive, too focused on what he stood to gain and lose in this aspect, since cultivation was his life. And if Sect Leader Jiang could only ever be an ordinary, mediocre person, his life would be over.”

Definition of hero complex:

A hero complex, also known as a saviour complex or hero syndrome, is a psychological phenomenon where a person seeks recognition for being a hero. Hero complexes can be detrimental to the lives of others and put innocent people at risk.

A person with a hero complex may:

- Create situations where they can be the hero and resolve them

- Take responsibility for problems that aren't theirs to solve

- Offer unsolicited advice

- Overstep boundaries

- Strive to be the ones to save the day, no matter the odds or situation

In the examples above, we can clearly see that Wei Wuxian knows his own limits. If there is something he can do to help, he will help. HOWEVER! He will not help if he knows that it isn't within his own capabilities because there's a chance that, if he fails, he might ruin the situation further and make things worse than it is! And I know people will be using this as a refute, so I will also say it here. Wei Wuxian will not make risky decisions UNLESS THERE IS NO OTHER CHOICE! None of the novel's textual evidence mentions any kind of instances in which he acts "recklessly" with his own life in a situation where any other action other than risking his life would have achieved the same or better results. If there are safer options, he will not make such decisions.

This is the direct opposite of Su She and Jiang Cheng. Su She was clearly trying to save face by killing the Xuanwu of Slaughter, "playing the hero," but he failed, either due to lack of skill or just not in the right headspace, and made things worse.

In Jiang Cheng’s case, I honestly don't know why he distracted the guards. Did he do it out of love, or was he just trying to "play the hero?" I say this because the novel didn't even say that the guards spotted Wei Wuxian. It just says they were patrolling around the area. If he did it out of care for Wei Wuxian, why didn't he take responsibility? If he really did try to save Wei Wuxian from the guards, why was Jiang Cheng not willing to live with the consequences? Did he not expect to be captured by them? He overestimated himself if that's the case. And he made things worse for Wei Wuxian because after that stunt of his, he just wanted to die. Not only that, he literally made his own sacrifice into Wei Wuxian's problem. And how could Wei Wuxian, who had just promised Jiang Cheng's parents to take care of him, let him die like this? So Wei Wuxian was forced to give up his core to give Jiang Cheng a reason to live. (Honestly, Jiang Cheng could still live as a normal person. He could still lead the clan as a normal person since a clan follows bloodline. Doesn't matter if he is competent or not, core or no. We literally have Jin Guangshan leading the Jins for goodness sake, does that man even know how to fight? Jiang Cheng just can't stand being an average dude, which is so ironic because in Wei Wuxian's second life, he literally became an average dude, even with a core. Man couldn't even defeat Jin Guangyao.)

[lancabbage]

JC stans...

"You can't comprehend the pain and suffering Jiang Cheng must have felt for his beloved dead brother, Wei Wuxian. He kept Chenqing all those years because he missed him so much! It's why he never got any dogs after he'd gone! To ensure, if by some miracle, his brother came back from the dead, he still had a place at Lotus Pier, that he still felt welcome at the place he called home. Urgh, Jiang Cheng is sooo thoughtful!"

Meanwhile, over in canon...

JC wants to murder WWX with his own two hands so badly that he's gone completely insane. Hunting down anyone that remotely resembles his disobedient subordinate in the hopes of catching him back from the dead, just so he can finally kill him himself.

Keeps Chenqing as bait in the hopes Wei Wuxian will come looking for his spiritual weapon and he can capture, torture and eventually murder him.

Never really cared about getting any more dogs and uses Wei Wuxian's fear of them to torture him when he finally manages to capture him.

Literally knocked down Wei Wuxian's residence at Lotus Pier and built something else there instead 😅

Mmm... Yeah, sure. Sounds like JC was really hoping WWX would return to LP lmfao.

[demonicfarmer69]

jin ling feels like hes being...watched... >_>