#novel jc

[sonik-kun]

Jiang Cheng never brought up his own sacrifice because he didn't want Wei Wuxian to feel indebted to him again, not because it would make his own sacrifice obsolete.

He wanted to let him go so he could be free to live with Lan Wangji and maybe to hopefully even start afresh again.

Jin Ling, who knows his uncle well, even acknowledges that he wanted to say something to Wei Wuxian when the pair left.

Jiang Cheng is a selfless person for this reason. He knew how much it would destroy Wei Wuxian if he told him what really happened.

He never held his sacrifice over him in that moment. He never held it over him in the core reveal scene. And he never held it over him even when their tensions first started when Wei Wuxian decided to protect the Wen and left him for a sect that tried to destroy his own.

Jiang Cheng kept that secret to himself because he understood Wei Wuxian and ultimately because he loves him. He doesn't want Wei Wuxian to owe him anything, and he doesn't want him to feel indebted to him. All he wanted was his bro back. And even then, he let Wei Wuxian go in the end because he saw that that was what he wanted.

Jiang Cheng and Wei Wuxian both decided to move on in the end so they can grow into better people. The JC antis in this tag, who keep bringing up the same discourse, should do the same thing. They might feel relief if they do. 🥰

[qiu-yan]

MDZS and asshole victims: thoughts on the second siege of the burial mounds scene

this post is not about morality judgments. this post is about reader sympathies only.

one rather clever rhetorical trick MDZS employs is putting all the more background "surviving victims of wei wuxian's actions" into one big angry mob at the second siege of the burial mounds, instead of letting them crop up anywhere else in the story. it's easy for a first-time reader to write off the guy who lost a leg at nightless city, or the guy whose parents died at nightless city, because both of those guys are being dicks. they're part of an angry mob baying for wei wuxian's blood--unfairly baying for wei wuxian's blood, because this time he didn't even do the thing they're saying he did. by putting these two victims into a mob of not just fellow victims but also unaffected individuals (ie. sect leader yao, who just showed up for kicks), the story can effectively equate these victims' grievances (ie. "you killed my parents") with unreasonable mob rule--even if these two things might not actually be equivalent.

the effect of this rhetorical trick, then, is that the reader can at once perceive the themes about mob mentality MXTX wishes to convey, and also effectively write off the victims' complaints. "yes, i did that to you, but i literally died already, what more do you want me to do? shall i walk on my knees repenting?" becomes easier for the reader to accept. and more importantly--wei wuxian's likability as a moral and just protagonist is not impacted.

ngl tho. it would be a bit more difficult for the reader to write off these victims' complaints if, instead of meeting said victims in an angry mob, the reader instead met these victims almost anywhere else. imagine if, instead of meeting mr. "you killed my parents" at the second siege of the burial mounds, we instead met him getting smashed at the local bar and crying about how his parents are dead. imagine if, instead of meeting mr. "you chopped off my leg" as a member of an angry mob, we instead met him begging for alms on the side of the road because his disability rendered him unable to work in a wuxia-esque setting. or imagine--if either of these background characters, overcome with survivor's guilt and trauma from nightless city, hung himself in his bedroom, and the next day his body was discovered by his 15-year-old daughter.

all of these scenarios are entirely plausible. you could easily include any of them into the story without changing the main plot at all. but suddenly shit just got a lot more depressing.

however, no such scene would ever be included in MDZS. the reason is that, as a work of fiction, MDZS's single most ardent goal is for us the readers to conclude not just that "we like wei wuxian as a character," but also that "wei wuxian is ultimately a morally righteous person." when the narrative focus shifts onto the people who were actually helped by wei wuxian's actions (mianmian and her family, lan sizhui, the few months of dignity the wen remnants were afforded) this becomes much easier for us to conclude; wei wuxian does indeed look like a hero. but the more narrative focus is given to the negative impacts of wei wuxian's actions--the more the "victims of wei wuxian" (whether actual victims or not) are given a face, instead of abstracted away by broad summaries--the more the reader might side-eye wei wuxian instead. every new victim given a name, given narrative attention that isn't just focused on making them look like an asshole, arouses the reader's sympathies in the opposite direction--and thus increases the risk that the reader might ultimately disagree with the novel's conclusion of "wei wuxian is a righteous person."

tbh, this does not seem like a risk MXTX particularly wants to take. instead, she's mastered the art of writing Asshole Victims.

which is an entirely valid writing decision, because imo basically every work of genre fiction out there does this to some extent.

[barawrah]

i think they should sit together and drink tea . maybe the grief of not saying goodbye to your most important person before they died will ebb away a little bit

[lancabbage]

Personally, I think the real reason people keep insisting MDZS is told from WWX's POV, even though they admit it's third person omniscient, is because JC is addressed by his birth name 'Jiang Cheng' throughout the entire novel and not his courtesy name. So people wrongly assume it must be from WWX's perspective...

Well, those that cling to such a take aren't going to like the real answer to this... But that's still not the case. If it were from WWX's perspective, JYL would be addressed as 'Shijie', LWJ would be 'Lan Zhan' and JFM would be 'Jiang-shushu' etc. JC is addressed by his birth name throughout the novel because even the narrator thinks he is a clown.

Sorry, but that's the reason. They do not think he deserves respect, just as the rest of the cultivation world doesn't either. If you actually look at the text, you'll notice behind his back, nearly everyone calls JC by his birth name out of disrespect - it's literally in the first few chapters for all to see. He's rarely called by his courtesy name by anyone other than LWJ, WWX when he's pissed and later by JGY and XY in the extras. That's it. It's a show of disrespect throughout the novel and the narrator shows the same. JC isn't called 'Sandu Shengshou' for nothing you know, it's a running theme of disrespect for a character that doesn't deserve much if any at all.

[lgbtlunaverse]

Horrible thing to say but I think there's a real chance Jiang Yanli was both of her parents' least favorite child and knew it and just kinda. Had to go on with her life knowing that.

[yingandzhan]

Something just got me thinking...

Suibian is a truly loyal sword, it refused to let anyone else use it and did what was only ever heard of in legends and sealed itself away when its master died!

The sword is monogamous. It only connected with one person and no one else would do. No one else could compare.

Spiritual weapons have a deep connection with their wielders, they are constantly permeated with their owner's spiritual energy. They are, in a way, an extension of their master.

So, it makes perfect sense that Suibian is monogamous. Because it's quite obvious that WWX is as well. WWX only ever had eyes for one person, he only ever connected to one other person in such a deep, life changing way. No one else would do, no one else could ever compare to that boy that stole his undivided attention on the Cloud Recesses rooftop the first night they met.

It was always LWJ for him, just as it was always WWX for Suibian.

Like master, like sword.

[whumpbby]

Why do people keep insisting that Jiang Cheng killed Wei Wuxian???

[vibrantvetty]

he's a tease

[mxtxfanatic]

"Jin Ling wasn't abused! Jiang Cheng was the perfect uncle to him, and Jin Ling would never doubt that—"

Hey, quick question: how come Jin Ling hesitates to go to Jiang Cheng during the second siege despite all the other boys immediately and unhesitatingly running to embrace their relatives when the adults arrive?

These cultivators, including Jiang Cheng, all bathed in blood, their faces tired. All of the boys rushed outside the cave, shouting, “Dad!” “Mom!” “Brother!” They were embraced into the crowd. Jin Ling looked left and right, as though he still hadn’t decided yet. Jiang Cheng’s voice was harsh, “Jin Ling, why are you so slow? What are you taking your time for? Do you want to die?!”

—Chapt. 68: Tenderness, exr

[spottedgardeneelstan]

normal jiang brother activities <3

[demonicfarmer69]

jin ling feels like hes being...watched... >_>

[sonik-kun]

The fact that JC antis were crying, pissing, shitting over a tiny, pixilated image of Jiang Cheng and Wei Wuxian on a magazine cover is exactly why I can't take any of y'all seriously like omfg 💀💀

The tiny image in the top corner I've circled is what they're whinging over and threatening to boycott btw because Lan Wangji is not with Wei Wuxian in it or whatever 😒

You'd think that the image was of Chengxian having hot gay sex by those complaints, but oh no. Here is the close-up version, instead depicting a very integral scene in the book that kick-started the major events in the first place..

No romantic undertones, nothing.

I think JC antis just need to admit to their insecurities at this point. Because it seriously sounds like they feel threatened by JC's huge mistress energy. It honestly explains all the obsessive hatred for him now!

[travalerray]

listen. Do you think Lan Wangji thinks that Wei Wuxian and Jiang Cheng had something going on in their youth

[kahluah]

*puts hand up* sorry I’m very new here what’s the context with what’s happening with the tag war??

Alright, I will give my run down, but I will not be naming any blog names on either side even if I have the info and the action was net positive. I just like to use my blog to scroll and reblog for the most part and refuse to embroil myself in the drama more than just giving my view on it as a bystander. One that definitely has an opinion on the events, but also as someone who would rather curate my own experience than fight.

So all this fighting that is going on, it used to just happen in the normal "Jiang Cheng" tag because back then there was no "canon Jiang Cheng" tag; it had not been created yet. (By that I mean it was not a tag used as a tag, Tumblr's shitty search algorithm might still show posts if one typed it in to the search bar because those posts had the words 'canon', 'Jiang', and 'Cheng' in the tags separately, but there would not be posts with "#canon Jiang Cheng" because nobody normally creates a post with a tag like that when "#Jiang Cheng" was suffice. Sometimes I see irrelevant posts in the canon Jiang Cheng tag, but the actual tag isn't on the post, the tags just happen to have all three words in them. Those I ignore because that is Tumblr's fault, not the poster.)

The fighting was between people that like the character and prefer to see the good in him and the interpretation of his character, and those that may or may not like the character (just because you like a character does not mean you need to defend their every action after all) but do not share that opinion of his character and have a more neutral or negative portrayal by contrast. The former also tended to favor or have only read the novel as it is the source material for all other adaptations.

Now things really came to a head when hate and threats were being thrown about on posts that were just quotes from the book showing the negative actions of Jiang Cheng. The people posting the quotes were basically told "if you hate the character why don't you just tag the post as anti-JC?!" but is it really right to call those anti posts when they were posting how the character acts in the source material? That is the character. That is how he acted. Look it is in the book! The character really did that! It is not somebody's negative headcanon that the character may act like that, it is something the character actually did. Personally I can not consider that as an anti character post, and neither did the people who made posts like that.

But things did get heated enough that some people finally took a step back and said "Fine. You want us to make our own space to make these posts so that you do not have to see us talk about JC this way? We will. It will be #canon Jiang Cheng and you can block it if you don't want to see the posts." Was the name picked in the spirit of schadenfreude? Very probable, but it is also not an incorrect name as the people who wanted to use it base their opinion on the novel. But the point was that the tag was created so that people now had their own space to make the posts they wanted and those that did not want to see it could block the tag. Curate your own experience; we can block tags on this site for a reason and advertising tags to block is a courtesy. (Because as said previously, the search here sucks, because the posts contain the character's name they are still likely to show up in the main tag, but block the newly created tag and you will not see those posts either way). Could the other people come into the tag in good faith and make arguments with textual support? Yeah, that was welcomed, but in the spirit of debate they should expect rebuttal. Was that what happened? No.

No instead what happened was basically this meme

They did not like the name chosen for the tag. They read the novel too and still believe that JC is good, so they should be able to use the tag too! Never mind the fact that the tag was made so they could block the posts they didn't want to see. So that they can go on with their days no longer having to deal with the people they constantly fought with. No. Instead of curating the experience of this website, they would get so hung up on the fact that there was now a tag called #canon Jiang Cheng in use that they had to use it too to defend JC from the people that post 'negative' things about him; even if it is novel text!

So while the fighting didn't stop, it did get slightly better because not everyone felt the need to jump into the new tag to defend their fave. Some people actually did curate their experience. Plus there is a block button and people do use it, so things got to a point where I would say it was relatively stable even if there was still fights here and there. (But once again I lurk, I do not participate. Things may not have been the same for more outspoken people).

But then a certain muskrat bought Twitter and a chunk of the fandom there fled here. That's when the main push to "reclaim the tag" and the new influx of people hopping into the tag to argue and defend their fave appeared. These people did not know why the tag was made, they just saw blogs that they liked telling people about the "JC-antis" that made it and how with the new people pouring into the Tumblr fandom from twitter, they had a chance to flood it and reclaim it. And since then the fighting has not really stopped.

As for what has happened in the past few days, you have JC defenders flooding the tag with fan art (not canon), screen caps from CLQ (not canon), and screenshots of a sentence or two from the novel (canon, but usually out of context or lacking additional lines that go on to rebut what was previously said) in the tag and the people who made the tag for a specific purpose getting mad about the spam. (I block so I have no clue how big the influx was or whatever but there was definitely like at least 3 new people I had to block). So when they made posts venting the anger, you got JC defenders coming back to them and going "But I never sent any hate or harassment! I just used the tag to talk about the canon character!" And perhaps they didn't, but these people in their defense always ignore and never respond to the question of why they are in the tag instead of blocking it because that is what the tag was made for. Instead they come back with "Well if you want to talk about JC that way, why don't you post in the anti tag or make your own tag!"... Remember that meme picture I used above. Yup.

The tag war began because people did not like negative posts about JC in the main character tag for JC. When told to use the anti tag or make a new tag, a new tag was made, but instead of curating the experience the stans of JC got so tilted at the name of the tag that they decided that they would come into the tag and continue the fight instead of just blocking it. Twitter fallout made the fighting worse. And now we have come full circle to the JC stans once again telling people to just use the anti tag or make their own tag.

[lancabbage]

All these posts and subsequent fan art showing (incorrectly...) JC with multiple whip scars across his chest. The dude was hit once with his own clan's discipline whip. Just once. We're told as much on two separate occasions as well.

The first thing he noticed was the bloody WHIP WOUND across Jiang Cheng’s chest.

Whip wound - singular...

While Wei Wuxian had never experienced this particular lashing himself, Jiang Cheng had. Wei Wuxian had wracked his brain to help him lighten that humiliating MARK, but all efforts had been fruitless. Wei Wuxian would never mistake the sight of such a scar.

Mark... Also singular...

Not only was JC only whipped once, but he then had the audacity to complain about the lasting mark on his chest to WWX... You know, the kid his mother whipped for the most insignificant of reasons? Who had multiple scars all across his back from being hit with a high-class spiritual weapon that was like lightning? Yeah, him.

Wei Wuxian, “Uh-huh, that’s right.” He felt his back, COVERED IN SCARS BOTH OLD AND NEW, and still couldn’t hold back the question he’d be thinking about, “How awfully unfair. Why is it that I’m the only one who gets beaten up, whenever something happens?”

Literally showing and telling us WWX was physically abused on a regular basis.

I swear people just conveniently forget WWX was abused in such a way and love to make JC a martyr so that he and LWJ are "the same" by "sacrificing" so much for WWX. LWJ was whipped within an inch of his life. Thirty-three lashes of the discipline whip...and it took him three years to recover! JC mostly recovered in three days, and that was only because he was coreless! LWJ is by far stronger than JC even when they both had cores lol - there's no way JC would heal so quickly if it wasn't just one whip.

With the needle securely embedded in his head, Jiang Cheng slept for THREE DAYS. His broken bones repaired themselves and his superficial wounds smoothed over, but he was destined to never fully heal—THE LASH from the discipline whip could never be erased, and his golden core could never be recovered.

Lash - singular yet again btw...

So please, stop exaggerating his scars in an attempt to make him more "heroic" or "fragile" the dude murders people for kicks, slaps his nephew around and doesn't give a shit about an innocent toddler dying in the siege he organised ffs. Get over it lmao 🤣

[amedetoiles]

me scrolling through the jc and yunmeng bros tags trying to find (semi) happy yunmeng shuangjie posts to reblog but instead what’s with all this wwx vs jc discourse? y’all need some early pandemic mdzs cql fandom romanticism energy