#lan wangji: be gay do crime

[boarloved-art]

We are so fucking back. i have many thoughts abt mdzs The Chase and ur getting them all. anyway.

xichen is the host. bradley walsh was the host once upon a time, as in real life. bc i cant erase an icon. but i CAN have lan xichen take his job.

the chasers are qiren (because its objectively crazy if the chase accidentally becomes a lan family business), guangyao, madame yu, wen qing, and later on wwx (and he ABSOLUTELY has his chaser Gimmick be the yiling patriarch. gotta fit it in there somewhere.)

the above image is incorrect. jiangcheng absolutely does not fucking make it to the final chase. he gets out SO fast. hes overconfident and goes for the high offer and then the first few questions are so niche and he gets his ass kicked (by wen qing!)

huaisang spends so much of the episode being like 'noooo im so bad at quizzes i dont know anythingggg' but then he bags a solid cashbuilder AND successfully gets the high offer. then he promptly realises hes set everyones standards high and decides hes gonna do nothing for the final chase.

wangji is only on the show because xichen thought this'd be a great friendmaking experience and 'nooo wangji youre so smart itll be fun ur good at trivia!'. wangji walks onto the set of ITV's The Chase a regular bookshop worker from wales, and leaves the set with a massive crush on an emo Ex-HMV-Employee-Now-Asda-Employee from the north of england (wuxian and jiang cheng are so newcastle to me, but wuxian moved to hartlepool, which is the burial mounds)

jiang cheng is, sadly, an arsenal fan

if i drew wwx on the chase would u guys get mad at me for pushing the uk-ei wuxian agenda again

[themaymoth]

Lan Wangji, the magnus archives au

my sweet sweet lonely boy lwj is in fact gay and commits eldritch crimes

tma has a chokehold on my soul

[SUPPLEMENTAL]

•Lan Wangji in this au is just the precious rich sheltered kid that gets whisked away by the bad boy and learns about the world through him. So basically nothing changed from the usual them.

•Look If one or two people were able to mysteriously leave the domain while on his watch, well that's none of your business.

•He was so surprised wwx was able to see him through the fog of the domain, like bitch you're not supposed to do that. He kept trying to hide from him, but wwx KEPT FUCKING FINDING HIM.

•Honestly wwx just annoyed him enough until he just HAD to fall in love with him. Again, nothing changed.

•He's just so happy and content just following his boyfriend wherever he wants to go and you bet he be looking enamored while watching wwx go batshit crazy blowing up rituals.

•He sucks at human interaction because he grew up away from society, wwx just reached the point of speaking in his behalf without him needing to say a word. Once again, NOTHING CHANGED.

[mdzs-owns-my-ass-i-guess]

"Hey. Where did you learn that move?" Jin Ling asked.

Wei Wuxian dropped the blame directly in Lan Wangji's lap without a shred of guilt. "Hanguang-Jun taught me."

Jin Ling didn't question this in the least. Since he had already seen Lan Wangji's forehead ribbon tied around Wei Wuxian's wrists, all he did was grumble. "He taught you this kinda thing too?"

This is so fucking funny

JL is like "damn, yall really following the be gay do crime agenda."

Also if he ever asks LWJ to tell him how he discovered the move he taught WWX, he's going to have a minor crisis. He's definitely taught WWX a lot of moves but none of them appropriate for a young kid!

"The spiritual energy wrist acupuncture trick, he told me you taught him how to do it."

LWJ, relieved, lying through his teeth: mn.

[kolleh]

I adore this meta! It’s rare for me to spot takes I agree with on Jin Guangyao, Nie Mingjue, Jiang Cheng and Wei Wuxian all in one post.

I think “normal” here is sort of being used as shorthand for “non-disruptive,” which threw me off a bit, but I think there’s a good connecting point that each character's definition of what would be “normal” is slightly different. Jiang Cheng being the perfect Jiang heir looks different from Lan Xichen becoming the perfect Lan. (Lan Xichen and Lan Wangji both arguably present themselves as perfect Lans at first as well, in very different ways.)

One thing I am completely confused by is saying Lan Xichen “tolerates” and sweeps being gay under the rug. I do not think is a thing he does at all! He seems, if anything, overwhelmingly unfussed about Lan Wangji and Wei Wuxian being gay. His only attempt to get them to tone it down (that I recall) is politely going, "Wei-gongzi, perhaps you can talk about having sex with my little brother later, when we are not in a life-or-death situation” during the temple scene. Which seems, you know. Reasonable.

I’m also going to highlight this comment from OP in the replies, because it’s excellent:

also tho lxc  *didn't* think jgy was innocent, he thought the much more interesting thing that jgy had done way fewer crimes than he really had for much better reasons, and that he regretted it and wanted to be as good as life would let him going forward. like wei wuxian.

Very fun thing actually about Jin Guangyao is he spent so much time and energy passing himself off as normal. The Normalest Guy, Look How Normal I Am. The Very Best And Most Skilled At Normal Things, Like Being Normal And Having Normal Opinions.

Which is great because on the one hand it reflects how he was kind of aware he absolutely was not. (And that by default this isolated him and this was Very Unsafe.) But on the other you see, with all the times he falls into the typical mind fallacy under stress and projects weird shit onto people, he also on some level believed everyone was doing this.

That being a Normal Person who had Normal Reactions to things, like being appalled by brutal violence, was an elaborate social lie everyone had to maintain to keep up the facade of civil society, and actually everyone was basically the same as him deep down. He was just better at it, and also the smartest.

Which is a very long way to say his character arc is heavily tied up with his evolving relationship with and skills at masking. I'm not gonna armchair diagnose him because that's beside the point, the point is that he is trying so fucking hard to be normal, but without a particularly well-developed definition of what's abnormal about him to begin with, resulting in some misfires.

And then you contrast him to some other characters and it gets more fun. One of his direct foils is Nie Mingjue, who literally does not know how to mask at all, not the slightest bit, but is fortunate enough to have been born the exact kind of weirdo his position in life demands, with special interests in 'saber training' and 'destroying evil.'

(He explicitly, per narration from wwx being inside his head, has no other interests and doesn't really understand the idea of having more than one activity you care about, do not tell me Nie Mingjue is walking around with a normal brain.)

So he is (jgy has a point about this, although he actually makes it about the luxury of having moral compunctions) free to totally embrace the conviction that everyone should basically be their authentic selves at all times, and just not do evil things about it.

On the other hand, and this really illuminates their relationship for me, Lan Xichen is absolutely trying to be normal. Like, he does try to excel, he wants to be best and he knows he's good, but as a person he is also trying to be as normal as circumstances allow.

He understands 'being normal about things' as a goal not in jgy's terms as an elaborate social fiction but as aspirational shaping of the self; if everyone is normal about everything then there won't be needless conflict. Living as normally as possible will optimize your mental health and your respect for others, and it's just a good baseline from which to be good.

Which is fine as far as it goes, but means harmless eccentricity (including gay) is to be tolerated and swept under the rug rather than really supported, and prejudices him to instinctively side with Jin Guangyao and anyone else who is pushing for Let's Be Normal About This, even when the people being weird are in the right.

(This is also to a non-zero degree a trauma response behavior; what Lan Xichen experienced as the largest existential threat to him growing up was something along the lines of being perceived as a selfish disruptor of norms, like his father.)

And then contrast that to Jiang Cheng and Lan Wangji, who are both very concerned at least initially with how things and people and they themselves are supposed to be, and feel some responsibility for ensuring this supposed-to is reflected in reality.

But neither of them makes any particular attempt to be normal about it.

And then ofc Wei Wuxian, another jgy narrative foil, never attempts to pass himself off as normal. He will sell 'I'm better than everyone ever' and 'I'm scum of the earth' in the same breath before he will try for normal.

Except that he genuinely seems to think his most virtuous traits, his throw-himself-between-victim-and-weapon impulses, are basically normal. If not everyone (who isn't a total shithead) does it, it's because not everyone has his insane confidence they can pull it off.

Which in a good mood he would say is fair, because he is in fact awesome and really good at winning. (In a worse state of mind he would definitely hate on all the selfish cowards.)

Nie Huaisang is probably the most genuinely normal human being in the main cast, probably even more normal than Jiang Yanli, and he's very happy to play that up and present himself as actually even more normal and average than he is, in order to keep expectations down.

Up until his whole life gets fucked and this little pretense turns into the most elaborate and successful mask in the entire book.

[howpeacefulislwj]

Episode 43

Oh yes, we can all take the time to Carefully Consider now, but where was this Careful Consideration when it was Lan Wangji’s Evil Boyfriend who was engaging in Horrible Demon Magic and Potentially Murdering a Bunch of People, hmm??? 3/10

Sorry babe you’re right I’m cool. 6/10

Lan Wangji will never, ever miss a chance to tell Su She that he Totally Fucking Sucks. Because he Does. Lan Wangji is Half Out of His Mind with Grief and he is still serving Absolutely Ice Cold Burns. 1/10

They can hit him with the Rule Sticks all they like. Lan Wangji has fully committed to Disobedience. He’s here to Be Gay and Question His Teachings and His Gay Just Fell Off A Cliff. 1/10

I Hope That Suffering The Devastating Loss Of Those I Love And The Subsequent Extended Mourning Doesn’t Become A Theme For Me. 1/10

Just Brazenly Breaking the Rules in front of the literal Sect Leader. So Shameless. Who is this man?? Not the Good Student That Lan Qiren Taught that’s for sure. 8/10

It’s Lan Wangji. Lan Wangji is the one who believes in you, Wei Wuxian. 8.5/10

Wei Ying Please Stop Falling Asleep On Me What Will The Censors Say. 9/10

Lan Wangji is Very Calm. Listening to the slimy little snake boy who was responsible for The Greatest Suffering in his Life lie straight to his brother’s face? Yes, this is Fine. He can meditate through this no problem haha. 4/10

Lan Wangji indulges in a Hint of Smug Satisfaction at Wei Wuxian playing their love song, and finally, Finally, putting his One Brain Cell to work and figuring out how Lan Wangji recognized him. 8/10

Look at this Impossibly Soft Boy. I can’t deal with him. Crouching behind a haystack and just exuding Elegance and Peace like it’s No Big Deal. So Soft for anybody speaking the Truth about Wei Wuxian. 9/10

[softwangji]

character development is lwj going from never breaking a single rule to allowing wwx to break any rule in the cloud recesses he wants and then finally lwj breaking the rules for wwx. just once. as a treat.

[wangxianficrecs]

By Gay, Do Crime by nerdzeword

Be Gay, Do Crime

by nerdzeword

(Teen, 11k, wangxian)

Summary: Wei Wuxian didn't mean to steal a turtle monster or run the hot man over, but now that it's happened he can't say he has any regrets.

Mojo's comments: Utter crack and quite charming.

Excerpt: Wei Wuxian was what you might call smart of brain, dumb of ass. He was the sort of person who could discover a cure for cancer the same week he microwaved a fork and set his entire kitchen on fire.

modern setting, pov wei wuxian, pov lan wangji, lawyer lan wangji, activist wei wuxian, meet cute, autistic-coded character, baby tulu xuanwu, fluff, accidental baby acquisition (a turtle), getting together, humor, first kiss, breaking and entering, good uncle jiang cheng, internet best friends to husbands, @nerdzewordart

~*~

(Please REBLOG as a signal boost for this hard-working author if you like – or think others might like – this story.)

[yillinglaozu]

honorary titles in cql/mdzs by how feral they make me go

Hanguang-Jun (Light Bearing Lord): I am content. I am at Peace. I am possibly maybe starstruck. Mr Lan Wangji out here being called the Actual Bringer of Light and it is Absolutely True. Every junior of every sect calls him like he has personally made the sun shine and they're right, Wei Wuxian and I concur. I'm not feeling even remotely feral. I am as serene as Hanguang-Jun himself.

Chifeng-Zun (Red Blade Master) and Sandu Shengshou (Skilled Wielder of Sandu/Thrice Bane Master): Logical. Sensible. Send a clear message. You know what to expect and that is that Nie Mingjue and Jiang Cheng Have Swords and they're Pissed Off Enough to Use Them. Be scared for your life and please, please Do Not annoy them. I'm not going feral but they sure are. Good for them.

Lianfang-Zun (Lord of Hiding Fragrance/Subtle Fragrance): Makes sense in context but too on the nose. We get it. Jin Guangyao's an Evil Mastermind who stumped even the smartest of cultivators. He's Hiding Fragrances. I have no idea why he agreed to this but I can appreciate the twisted sense of poetry in this. Doesn't really make me go feral, only because I'm confused why Literally No One suspected him of his crimes considering he pretty much spelled it out.

Gui Jiangjun (Ghost General): Homeboy was selling turnips and chilling with his fam in burial mounds while the cultivation world was naming him entirely out of his volition. It's a cool title, very goth and sexy, and Wen Ning will only be called that if he reclaims it. We support Wen Ning's rights in this house and He Is Not A Thing. I'm not quite feral yet but if anyone disagrees, it's On Sight for them.

Huadan Shou (Core Melting Hand): Wen Zhuliu, my dude, if you weren't partly responsible for the painful golden core situation, I would've been way more pleased with this. Again, sends a Clear Message and tells you that You Must Not Fuck With Him. I'm beginning to go feral and I don't know if it's because of my rage at the consequences of his actions or because this is actually a pretty powerful name to be called. Damn it.

Headshaker: Nie Huaisang 1000% planned this and I'm not even mad. My boy knew what he was doing and he Did It Right. The exact opposite energy of Jin Guangyao's title as in he literally pointed to the other guy saying idk man ask him about it. Very iconic. Very gay. Very Funny when you explore the possibilities of 10 years of head shaking as a sect leader. I am feeling quite feral in a fun kind of way but not nearly as feral as Nie Huaisang himself is.

Yiling Laozu (Yiling Patriarch): OKAY. Sexy. Hot. Chaotic but Righteous. I may be biased but Wei Wuxian being called Yiling Laozu is quite possibly my favourite title because hell yeah he's a protector of his people and he Will Fight anyone who fucks with them. And he will look Very Hot doing that with his goth outfits and sexy black smoke and haunting tunes. Ugh. I'm going Very Feral in the best, most 'I'm in love with a necromancer' way. Lan Wangji really stood no chance, did he.

Zewu-Jun (Brilliance Overgrowth Lord/Lord of Munificent Waters): I am In Pain. I am Screaming. I have not known a single moment of Peace since I found this out. Why. Why is Lan Xichen called that. He's a Good Person. You could've called him Anything and THAT'S what you came up with?!?!! Literal translation Lord of Damp Overgrown Weeds??!!!??!!!!! I Don't Care if it sounds better with context, I am FILLED with sheer murderous RAGE and I WILL lose my MIND. How did he NOT go on a rampage after this. How is the entire plot just not his villain origin story motivated by his fucking name. I am FULLY FERAL and NOTHING can stop me now. Lan Qiren I Am Coming For You.

[hoarder-of-stories-27]

In response to your fav ship dynamic, flawd holy being/demonic being devoted to them, what are the ones other than Good Omens? Please and thank you? I love ineffable husbands and need more of that dynamic in my life. 💖

Hey! I checked your profile and didn't find anything about whether you're a minor or an adult (which is super valid! heck yeah practice online safety), so I'm saying this with the disclaimer that these are all adult novels with adult themes including but not limited to sexuality and gore/death/etc. If you're a minor, as a blanket statement, I don't recommend reading them until you're older, though of course reading them would be your choice still and you're the one who knows your tolerance for adult themes.

With that out of the way: Hualian, Bingqiu, Ranwan, and maybe Wangxian fit that dynamic! Those are all canon gay pairings (as in, the books focus on the romance between two men who kiss on the mouth multiple times on the page, and Hualian is the only pairing that doesn't have explicit sex scenes, though it is clear that they do canonically have kinky sex) in novels by the Chinese authors Mo Xiang Tong Xiu and Meatbun.

Here, I'll copy-and-paste my summaries for each novel from this post:

Tian Guan Ci Fu, or Heaven Official’s Blessing (Hualian): a disgraced god meets a disguised ghost king who treats him with a surprising amount of respect, and starts to work on healing from eight centuries of trauma. My favorite book ever. Sweeping fantasy romance with fascinating background characters and themes of criticism of mob mentality. Main content warnings: abuse, gore, suicide. No explicit sex scenes; definitely still an adult novel.

(Note on the dynamic: this is the one I was mainly thinking of, making that drawing. It's SO good.)

Scum Villain’s Self-Saving System (Bingqiu): a terminally online webnovel-obsessed Redditor-equivalent isekai’s into his favorite/most hated harem novel, and finds out, to his surprise, that the protagonist is gay??? Comedy that would be angst from any other character’s perspective. Main content warnings: dub/noncon, painful sex, internalized homophobia. There are a few explicit sex scenes between the main couple, including a dub/noncon/fuck-or-die scene.

(Note on the dynamic: Shen Qingqiu, the not-Redditor, is the flawed holy being, kind of. He's a cultivator - something like a wizard, maybe, in Western terms? though of course it's its own thing. Luo Binghe, the protagonist of the harem novel, is the demonic being devoted to him.)

Mo Dao Zu Shi, or Grandmaster of Demonic Cultivation (Wangxian): a disgraced dead man who’s definitely straight, trust him, is given new life and proceeds to unravel a mystery with the help of an old friend. Casefic vibes with themes of criticism of mob mentality. Main content warnings: uhh it’s been a while but definitely at least death and torture. There are a few explicit sex scenes between the main couple, including dubcon/drunk sex and CNC.

(Note on the dynamic: Lan Wangji is the flawed holy being. Wei Wuxian is the not-dead-anymore man "Grandmaster of Demonic Cultivation" refers to, though watch out for the differences between how people perceive him and how he actually is.)

Erha/2ha, or Dumb Husky and His White Cat Shizun (Ranwan): an emperor who’s committed every crime, especially rape and murder, kills himself and wakes up as his teenage self, given a second chance with his teacher, the man he wronged most. Casefic vibes with themes of criticism of punitive justice, very dead dove. Biggest, most important content warning: rape. There are multiple explicit rape scenes, and they are integral to the story. I read this book for the rape scenes, and I was not disappointed. Do not read this if fictional rape is a trigger for you. Very good book.

(Note on the dynamic: Chu Wanning is the flawed holy being - another cultivator. Heads up that Mo Ran, the emperor, is very unlikable at first, but there is a happy ending.)

To anyone following me - please feel free to add on with other examples of this dynamic! I'd be interested as well. :D

[yanlijingshen]

As they both should,

would be cool if this curse of a tv series started, like, paying rent for living in my head 24/7

[theincorrectuntamed]

just had a shocking revelation that wei wuxian is jus a rockin fratboy that wants to be gay n do crime while lan wangji is the preppy nerd that wont share answers for homework 😐

[grewlikefancyflowers]

The role of homophobia in MDZS

Horribly long post under the cut.

First let’s talk about MXY - this is the first thing we are told regarding his sexuality - ‘Mo XuanYu was homosexual, and had enough nerve to harass the other disciples. The scandal was revealed to the public and, as he had few achievements in terms of cultivation, there were no reasons for him to stay in the clan.’ (Ch.2)

This all seems to suggest that MXY’s sexuality alone was not enough to expel him from the clan - it was that he made advances towards others, and that this information was made public. It is heavily suggested that if MXY had been talented or otherwise favoured, he may have been allowed to stay. In summary, aside from him being gay, there were at least three other factors against him for it to be enough to warrant his expulsion from the Jin Sect, and most relevantly, there were conditions under which he would have ‘gotten away’ with it.

WWX also says to LWJ in Chapter 47, ‘If it was as simple as harassing someone from the same sect, he [MXY] would’ve gotten away with a few scoldings. It wouldn’t have been enough for him to be kicked out.’

And again we see on Dafan Mountain - ‘Mo XuanYu was the LanlingJin Sect’s… Ahem, he used to be a foreign disciple of the Jin Sect. But, because his spiritual powers were low and he didn’t work hard in his studies, and also had that… He harassed a peer and was thrown out of the LanlingJin Sect’ (Ch.10)

His low cultivation skills are brought up first as the reasoning for his expulsion, and it is not said that he was kicked out solely for being gay, but rather that he harassed other disciples. The unnamed person who is speaking here does seem to be uncomfortable directly talking about MXY’s sexuality. But overall, that (and everything else about MXY) is treated as interesting gossip, rather than anything worthy of true condemnation. Compare it to how they reacted to the appearance of WN, who they were ready to kill, and then turned their attention to WWX for summoning him. Being a demonic cultivator is a worse crime than being gay in MDZS, confirmed. Actually, aside from that one guy above, no one has anything to say about MXY’s sexuality at all - they’re more interested in criticising his flute skills, and they have far more of a reaction to LWJ and JC’s dual than the mention of MXY being a cut-sleeve. Overall here, while MXY’s sexuality is regarded as somewhat scandalous, people seem to find it the least interesting thing to happen on that mountain that night, and the only person we see having any particularly negative reaction is JC.

JC is a character we know to be homophobic, expressing this repeatedly throughout the novel - his immediate reaction to hearing about MXY is - ‘Jiang Cheng’s eyebrows twitched. His eyes which stared at Wei WuXian seemed more disgusted than before.’ (Ch.10) We also see him being homophobic about LWJ specifically in chapter 24 - ‘Jiang Cheng smiled menacingly, “It really is quite curious how far he went to protect you, back on Dafan Mountain.” A moment later, he corrected himself, “No. You weren’t necessarily the one whom Lan WangJi was protecting. [...] Maybe he’s familiar with this body that you stole instead.” His words were cruel and sinister. Every sentence seemed well-meaning on the surface, but was actually derogatory.’

We also know that JC during that confrontation on Dafan Mountain was not willing to let ‘MXY’ go - he was already past the point of holding back due to social decorum (having already fought LWJ), there is little he wouldn’t do to to get his hands on WWX - If MDZS society was that homophobic, then JC could easily use that against LWJ in that moment by publicly questioning why he is going so far to defend an openly gay man who has just declared his attraction to him, even going as far as to take him home. JC doesn’t do this, though he has no problem expressing that exact sentiment in private. Clearly, sexuality is not something that can be effectively weaponised like that.

Similarly, at the discussion conference WX attend, JC makes a few underhanded remarks about LWJ and WWX - ‘After a few words of small talk, Jiang Cheng asked, “HanGuang-Jun, I’ve never seen you at Carp Tower’s Discussion Conferences before. Why have you gained the sudden interest?” Neither Lan XiChen nor Lan WangJi replied. Luckily, Jiang Cheng didn’t intend for this to be a serious question in the first place. He had already turned to Wei WuXian, speaking as though he’d spit out a sword and impale the latter anytime he wished to, “If I remember correctly, wasn’t it that you two never took needless personnel with you when travelling out? What’s the situation this time? Once in a blue moon? Now who is this renowned cultivator? Could someone please introduce him to me?” (Ch.47). We can clearly see that he is trying to provoke a reaction from them, with the implicit threat that he knows WWX's real identity. Once again, if JC thought he could use any implication about LWJ’s sexuality or his relationship to ‘MXY’ against them here, he would, he does so later in the ancestral hall, in private.

Additionally, JC's unwillingness to say such things publicly, that he does not hesitate to say in private, seems to indicate that doing so would not actually be that well received.

Another point on Koi Tower, both LWJ and WWX know of MXY’s reputation, and the assumptions people might conclude about LWJ attending with a known gay man, neither of them at any point express any concern over how that would come across. WX are also given one room with one bed to stay in (as described in Ch.47), neither of them express any concern that it seems to have been assumed they are a couple, they not concerned over any backlash from this, nor do they receive any.

Also in chapter 47, Wei Wuxian does have this to say about how he might be perceived at Koi Tower - ‘More than half of the Lanlingjin Sect’s disciples had strange expressions on their faces when they looked at him. He had temporarily forgotten that this was Carp Tower, where Mo XuanYu harassed somebody from his own sect and was kicked out. Who would’ve expected that he’d return with such conspicuity, as if he knew no shame. He even slipped into a highranked seat along with the Two Jades of Lan…’ [...] “Wei WuXian, “Please don’t leave me. There’s probably a lot of people here who know about Mo XuanYu. If somebody decides that they want to talk about the good ol’ days with me, I’ll have to keep on playing the fool and spouting nonsense. Please don’t mind if I end up losing your face.”’

While WWX does express concern specifically over the fact that MXY had harassed someone, rather than just that he was a cut-sleeve, it is sort of hard to separate the two in this instance. However, WWX does say he’d have to ‘play the fool and spout nonsense’ - seeming to indicate that this is more about MXY’s general behaviour, rather than his sexuality specifically. Regardless, the most important point here is that WWX says to LWJ ‘please don’t leave me’ - suggesting that, while in the presence of Hanguang Jun, WWX would be safe from any backlash resulting from MXY’s reputation.

Shortly after, WWX says this ‘“The way that everyone at Carp Tower looks at me is so strange. Just what did Mo XuanYu do?”’ WWX clearly thinks that the reaction to MXY here is far greater than what he did should provoke. This once again suggests that queerness isn’t really regarded as that offensive within MDZS. WWX is actually so curious about what MXY could have done, that he leaves LWJ with the excuse of going to find out, seeking out JL.

Then we have this interaction with JL’s bullies -

‘‘Jin Chan, “Mess around? What’s wrong with teaching a lesson to an indecent disciple of our sect?”

Jin Ling snorted, [...] Have you forgotten who he came with today? You want to teach him a lesson? Why don’t you ask HanGuang-Jun first?”

Hearing the name “HanGuang-Jun”, the boys all seemed nervous. Even if Lan WangJi wasn’t present, nobody dared to claim that they weren’t scared of HanGuang-Jun at all’

Jin Chan, “He shamelessly harassed LianFang-Zun, and you’re still talking in favor of him?”’

Once again, it seems that LWJ’s status protects ‘MXY’ from any real backlash, and we also see that the reason Jin Chan gives for wanting to ‘teach him a lesson’ and calling him ‘indecent’ is that he harassed JGY, not that he is a cut-sleeve. Although, once again, it is sort of hard to separate the two in this instance.

Also relevant, is that WWX says this to JL - ‘That’s right. I’ve fallen for someone else.” [...] “In the past, I couldn’t understand my own heart, but after I met HanGuang-Jun I’m certain.” He took in a deep breath, “I’m already incapable of leaving him. I don’t want anyone else aside from HanGuang-Jun…’ Later on, once WWX’s identity is revealed, he was terribly concerned about LWJ’s reputation being destroyed by fleeing with him, however he is not at all bothered that LWJ being seen as having a romantic relationship with him could affect his reputation. Being an associated of Yiling Laozu worse crime than being gay in MDZS, confirmed.

After having heard the full truth, WWX now concludes that the sole reason for MXY being kicked out, and the reaction to him, was harassing his half-brother - ‘“HanGuang-Jun, you’re here! Did you know? Mo XuanYu was kicked out of Carp Tower because he harassed Jin GuangYao. So that was why everyone looked at me so weirdly!”’ - furthermore suggesting that MXY’s sexuality itself really wasn’t all that scandalous, the other reasons given for his expulsion now coming across more as excuses to cover up the truth.

General reactions to WX/queerness

Sharing a bed

We are told in chapter 92 that WX typically share a bed, it’s only after hearing JC’s derogatory remarks about their relationship that WWX feels awkward about it, suggesting that while WX have been frequenting inns and sleeping in the same bed, no one has at any point expressed a negative or shocked reaction to them doing so. We also see the innkeeper from chapter 91 being completely unfazed - ‘“Young Masters, how many rooms would you like?” [...] The owner promptly answered herself, stating, “One room, right? One room is enough! My rooms here are comfy even for two people. The bed won’t feel cramped.”

When LWJ princess carries WWX in chapter 25

‘Aside from the front-desk worker who spat out a mouthful of water, the other bystanders didn’t act out of the ordinary.’’

Most people don’t react, and I’m not sure the worker’s reaction could definitively be called homophobic, we can’t be certain that they wouldn’t have the same reaction to LWJ carrying a woman like this. Considering societal standards of proper public behaviour, it seems the sight of LWJ carrying anyone like this would be shocking. (See WWX and JC’s reactions to Wen Chao’s PDA at the Wen indoctrination camp)

And we have NHS’s reaction…

‘After taking a closer look at the posture of the two men who entered the room, he gave a blank stare and barely completed his final sentence, “…. I really don’t know.” [...] Lan Wangji looked oblivious as he carried Wei Wuxian into the room and sat him down on a mat. Nie Huaisang looked as though he could not witness this any further, as he immediately opened up his fan and covered his face.

When looking at how NHS and the worker react to this, we should take into account why WWX was against it in the first place - ‘For a grown man to still need to be carried; that looks so bad.”’ Fyy’s, tmwx’s, exr’s, and the official translation, all used the word ‘grown man.’ that, along with the way this is phrased (across all translations) indicates that the reason WWX thinks this would look bad (or, ‘unsightly,’ in the official tl) is because of some notions of masculinity, and not at all to do with how people may perceive their sexuality.

So, we have plenty of indications that the reason for these reactions isn’t to do with any views or assumptions they make about WX’s relationship, and even if we assume that is the case, neither of them express anything resembling the disgust that JC expresses. It may also be the case that, since NHS should already know who WWX is at this point, that he has other reasons for hiding behind his fan.

Phoenix Mountain hunt

WWX throws a flower for LWJ along with the women, he does this in public no one is scandalised or offended by it, except for JC (known homophobe), who feels the need to apologise for WWX’s behaviour. Even when WWX says he did it because he ‘thinks LWJ looks nice,’ no one reacts, and he receives no backlash for this.

Jiang Sect

In the Lotus Seed Pod extra, WWX talks about how handsome LWJ is, saying he is even more attractive than himself, no one seems to regard this as weird.

Wen Ning

WN’s reaction after they have slept together - ‘Wen Ning noticed that his mood wasn’t as usual. He paused what he was doing, “Young Master, did something happen?”

He walked a few steps towards Wei WuXian before suddenly halting, and quickly backing away.

Wei WuXian hesitated in confusion, “What are you doing this time?” Wen Ning seemed as if he was scared, waving his hands, “No, no. Nothing!”

Wei WuXian could tell at first glance that he was feeling embarrassed. Unconsciously, he glanced at himself, and realized he had a few red fingerprints on his wrists, [...] He touched his lips. They were also still slightly swollen. [...] His neck was probably quite a scene as well.

If Wen Ning had any blood on his face, he would’ve been blushing so hard the bleed seeped out.’

WN is embarrassed (and, I think, embarrassed that he incidentally asked WWX about something private), but he’s not scandalised, shocked or disgusted. He’s already seen plenty of interactions between WX with romantic implications before (the kissing figures LWJ drew on the wall, LWJ tying WWX with the forehead ribbon, the boat in yunmeng, etc) - he is overall very unfazed by it.

Likewise, WWX isn’t at all concerned about WN noticing this, he doesn’t try to hide it, he moves on as if nothing is out of the ordinary.

Wen Qing, in chapter 75

‘She wanted to check on Wei WuXian’s injuries, but he got there before she could. She paused with surprise. Lan WangJi was almost embracing Wei WuXian as he held his hand and passed spiritual energy to him.’

Is hard to say what she is surprised by - that the normally uptight and stoic man is holding WWX like this, would her reaction be that different if WX were not the same gender? Either way, it's a pretty mild reaction, it’s certainly not a negative reaction. When WWX pretends to faint later on, and LWJ catches him and is similarly concerned, she has no reaction at all. Later on, when she asks WWX about LWJ, it seems that she suspects there is more to their relationship than WWX is letting on, like WN, she is unfazed by it.

Lan Jingyi

While he does exhibit some homophobic behaviour, unlike JC and JL, LJY has no immediate negative reaction to MXY's sexuality - he neither says or does anything throughout WWX’s whole initial performance to humiliate the Mo family. His first direct interaction with him in chapter 3 is - ‘“Go back, this is not somewhere you should be.” He was trying to chase Wei Wuxian out, but it was said with good intentions. The disciple’s tone was different from the disparaging tone used by the Mo Family servants.’ It’s pretty clear he harbours no real ill feelings towards him. When LJY gets annoyed at him for taking their flag, he calls him a lunatic, but he makes no remark about his sexuality. He doesn’t at any point during the rest of the Mo Manor arc, on Dafan Mountain, nor even outside CR, even when WWX says things like ‘with so many beautiful young men in your sect, I’m afraid that I won’t be able to control myself.”’

There is only one time in MDZS that LJY uses the phrase ‘damn cut-sleeve’ - ‘Lan JingYi seized him furiously, “You damn cut-sleeve! I-i-is he someone you could peek at?!”’ This is specifically in reaction to WWX spying on LWJ in the cold spring, it seems it was this offense against LWJ that angered him enough to actually make this remark towards WWX. It is clearly an impulsive reaction to WWX’s behaviour, LJY hadn’t expressed any negative attitude about his sexuality before this point. TBH, it comes across as if LJY is just repeating some insult that he’s heard before, rather than actually holding any deeply rooted prejudice about it. I’m not saying it's okay but I think it’s pretty dramatic to compare this at all to the homophobia that JC, and even JL, exhibit.

That being said, LJY is frequently rude to WWX throughout the beginning of the novel, though this always seems to be in reaction to WWX’s purposefully outrageous & offensive behaviour, its hard to say if he would have had the same reaction if WWX had just been like, a regular gay dude. LJY also insists that LWJ is not a cut-sleeve when WWX claims he slept with him - ‘“You’re so shameless and brazen! Hanguang Jun isn’t gay. He slept with you?!’ LJY seems to at least partially find this so hard to believe because he thinks that someone like LWJ wouldn’t want to sleep with someone like ‘MXY’ who behaves so improperly. When it becomes very clear that LWJ is in fact gay, LJY doesn’t have trouble accepting it.

Lan Sect

The reaction to WWX pulling off LWJ’s forehead ribbon at the Qishan archery competition - ‘Arm around his younger brother, Lan XiChen talked to the unspeaking Lan WangJi in a low voice. All of the others seemed similarly serious, as though they were facing a powerful enemy. They shook their heads as they spoke, glancing at Wei WuXian with odd, indescribable looks on their faces.

Wei WuXian only heard a few vague terms, such as “accident”, “calm down”, “no need to worry”, “a man”, “the sect rules”, and so on.’

Once again, it is hard to separate how much of this reaction is due to WWX being male, or how much of it is because it's regarded as indecent for anyone to touch the forehead ribbon. It’s also hard to say if we should assume the whole group was scandalised because WWX is a man, or if that ‘a man’ reflects the views of one person. Funny if all these people just know LWJ is gay and that’s why they’d find it more scandalous that he is a man.

Their reaction to ‘MXY’ - ‘Wei Wuxian had already sneakily crept up behind him, and gleefully exclaimed to himself in a loud voice, “Good good good, we can finally descend this mountain and elope!”

The crowd cringed from his words. The older disciples were especially horrified, but some of the younger disciples were somewhat used to this.’

Its not clear how much of their reaction is due to how outlandish WWX’s behaviour is, or if it is because he is a man, the reaction of ‘cringing’ seems to indicate the former rather than the latter. We should also consider how very easy it is to horrify Lan elders, with things like walking too fast or sitting improperly. LWJ appears unaffected by their reaction.

Other than that, we know that WX live happily married in the CR, and when LXC recounts the story of them finding LWJ post-nightless city, he doesn’t say anything to imply that they found it do be particularly shocking or bad that LWJ is in love with a man.

Jin Ling

I don’t think it is at all a coincidence that the two overtly homophobic characters we see in MDZS are related, he not only repeatedly calls WWX a ‘damn cut-sleeve,’ he also refers to it as an ‘incurable disease’, but he does get over it soon enough. Interestingly, he seems to lose all homophobic sentiments towards WWX once he founds out his true identity. This is relevant due to what WWX speculates - ‘The reason he [JL] was disgusted at Mo XuanYu was not only that he was a cut-sleeve, but likely also that the one Mo XuanYu harassed was his own uncle.’ This also makes sense considering JL’s insistence that ‘MXY’ stay away from members of his sect specifically. So, even one of the characters that we see being homophobic the most in MDZS, has other reasons contributing to his attitude.

Some more points, while we see WWX being cautious to publicly use modao, he is not at all afraid of receiving backlash for his 'lunatic cut-sleeve MXY' performance, indicating that it's not something WWX considers likely to happen, or a real threat. Wangxian do also not go to any particular lengths to hide their relationship, flirting with each other in public in chapter 112 & in the Dream Come True extra. They even kiss in the restaurant, although they do hide what they are doing, this can easily be attributed to taboos against pda (again, see the reaction to WC & WLJ in the Wen indoctrination camp).

That being said, while it is pretty clear looking at the evidence above that someone with LWJ's status and reputation could never receive public backlash for such a thing, others without the social protections that high status affords easily could. The obvious example being MXY, who was abused by his family. Additionally, it is his association with LWJ that makes the Jin disciples fearful to attack him during the discussion conference. If LWJ was not someone of high status who did things like carry WWX in Qinghe and make no real effort to hide his sexuality, would people let it slide so easily? Possibly not - we see repeatedly throughout the novel that LWJ can get away with things that would otherwise be regarded as scandalous. Even so, looking at MXY's story in more detail, it is clear that even he wasn't actually treated with condemnation purely for his sexuality.

So, overall, while queerness is not the norm in MDZS, it is clearly not regarded as a strong social taboo either - the reactions we see are varied but more often than not, characters don't seem to find it all that unusual. Reactions such as JC's are presented as outliers.

[inessencedevided]

What your favourite mdzs/cql ship says about you

So, by absolutely nobody's request I made a shitpost based on Eldena Doubleca5t’s awesome youtube videos. I included the link to the channel in the source because this post won’t show up if i put it here. Go give her videos a watch and then read this post in her voice because I swear to you it'll be a 100% funnier

Also, these are absolutely NOT to be taken seriously. I was just procrastinating by taking the piss out of these characters. I’m not here to start any ship wars. I don’t even have a legit opinion on over half these ships ^^ (though I DID jokingly include why I ship some of these. You can guess which)

Lan Wangji / Wei Wuxian (cql)

You’re always a slut for period dramas.

Lan Wangji / Wei Wuxian (novel)

You’re always a slut for the exact OPPOSITE of period dramas, which is sexual tension culminating in kinky consensual dub-con sex and copious amounts of pda.

Nie Mingjue / Lan Xichen

Your ideal high-school romance is jock/nerd.

Lan Xichen / Jin Guangyao

You’re a firm believer in the inherent eroticism of devotion, deception and despair.

Wei Wuxian / Mo Xuanyu

You were looking at that tumblr memes about fucking your clone and thought “Mhh ...”

Wei Wuxian / Wen Ning

You don’t understand people who say they wouldn’t date their best friend. Like, aren’t you best friends for a reason?

Wen Ning / Wei Wuxian / Lan Wangji

You either just wanted good things for Wei Wuxian (and really who wouldn’t?) OR you’re just ... really horny.

Luo Qingyang / Jiang Yanli

You read mdzs and watched cql and each time a woman was in a scene you just thought “Aren’t you tired of being nice? Don't you just want to go ape shit?”

Wen Ning / Jiang Cheng

You are YuBin. (there’s a post on his Weibo. it’s brilliant)

Wei Wuxian / Xue Yang

You have a secret necrophilia kink that you won’t admit to under threat of torture.

Wei Wuxian / Wen Qing

You want a girlfriend who not only can kick your ass, but will do so upon request.

Wen Qing / Jiang Cheng

You are a firm believer in 👏 men 👏 getting 👏 pegged.

Baoshan-Sanren / Lan Yi

You are a lesbian who loves MILFs

Jin Zixuan / Jiang Yanli

You’re ideal relationship dynamic is sitcom-wife/sitcom-dad

Lan Wangji / Jin Zixuan

Your ideal date involves awkward silence and stilted conversation.

Wei Wuxian / Jiang Cheng

You're really into sibling incest, but manage to pretend that you're not.

Ouyang Zizhen / Jin Ling

You're always a slut for grumpy “tough” boys who go soft for one ☝️ man.

Wen Qing / Jiang Yanli

Your ideal relationship dynamic is just girls bein’ friends, gals bein’ pals.

Jiang Fengmian / Yu Ziyuan

This is just the same joke as Wen Qing / Jiang Cheng  but you also have a strong fondness for MILFs

Lan Sizhui / Jin Ling

You got your start in online fandom shipping drarry.

Lan Sizhui / Ouyang Zizhen

You love soft boys (too good for this world, too pure) so much that one day you were like, “Hey! You know what’s better than one soft boy? Two soft boys!”

Lan Jingyi / Jin Ling

You're a firm believer in the inherent eroticism of being bullied.

Lan Sizhui / Lan Jingyi

That’s just the same joke as Wei Wuxian / Jiang Cheng, but you just can’t with all their trauma.

Song Lan / Xiao Xingchen

You don't understand why anyone would care about a couple with a canonical happy ending when there’s a worst-timeline-au parallel ship right there.

Song Lan / Xiao Xingchen / Xue Yang

Based on my experience with this side of the fandom you‘re either into hardcore psychological horror or fluff so sweet it’s cotton-candy and there is no in-between.

Xue Yang / Xiao Xingchen 

That’s just the same joke as Song Lan / Xiao Xingchen / Xue Yang, but you never forgave Song Lan.

Cangse Sanren / Wei Chanze

You're a firm believer in keeping things ☝️ canon and keeping things ✌️ wholesome.

Yu Ziyuan / Cangse-Sanren

You love the dynamic of teenage Wangxian, but you’re also a lesbian.

Jin Guangyao / Xue Yang

You were absolutely fucking thrilled when be gay do crime became the hot new meme.

Jing Guangyao / Su She

You’re a firm believerin the inherent eroticism of class-solidarity.

Luo Qingyang / Wen Qing

Honestly, this is just the same joke as Luo Qingyang / Jiang Yanli, but you’re also into girls out-topping each other.

Madam Lan / Cangse Sanren

You just want good things for Madam Lan and really, who wouldn't?

Wei Wuxian / Jiang Yanli

That's just the same joke as Wei Wuxian / Jiang Cheng BUT you're also heterosexual. 

Nie Mingjue / Jin Guangyao

Your new favourite meme is that exchange that's like "go fuck yourself!" - "fuck me yourself, you coward!"

Nie Mingjue / Lan Xichen / Jin Guangyao

You are a firm believer in the inherent eroticism of failed conflict negotiations and unsolved moral dilemmata.

Nie Huaisang / Wei Wuxian

You're ideal date involves wacky hijinks after which PAIN ensues.

Lan Xichen / Nie Huaisang

You are a firm believer in the inherent eroticism of shared trauma.

Lan Xichen / Jiang Cheng

You are a firm believer in the inherent eroticism of shared trauma AND working through it together.

Wen Ruohan / Lan Qiren

I can’t say for sure that you wanna fuck dads, but you definetly want to fuck father figures.

Luo Qingyang / Luo Qingyang's husband

You’re always a slut for characters who are in dire need of more screantime.

Lan Wangji / Jiang Cheng

You don't understand why anyone would care about a happy marriage when there's an unstable love/hate relationship to fuck around with.

Luo Qingyang / Lan Wangji

You ... are Wei Wuxian

[pumpkinpaix]

Hi! Loving your meta on suibian :)) Just wondering what were your frustrations with cql, especially considered you've watched this in multiple mediums? (I've only watched cql)

Hi anon! thank you so much!

Oh boy, you’ve unlocked a boatload of hidden dialogue, are you ready?? :D (buckle up it’s oof. Extremely Long)

@hunxi-guilai please consider this my official pitch for why I think the novel is worth reading, if only so you can enjoy the audio drama more fully. ;)

a few things before I get into it:

I don’t want to make this a 100% negative post because I really do love CQL so much! So I’m going to make it two parts: the changes that frustrated me the most and the changes I loved the most re: CQL vs novel. (again, don’t really know anything about donghua or manhua sorry!!) Sound good? :D

this will contain spoilers for the entirety of CQL and the novel. just like. All of it.

talking about the value of changes in CQL is difficult because I personally don’t know what changes were made for creative reasons and what changes were made for censorship reasons. I don’t think it’s entirely fair to evaluate the narrative worth of certain changes when I don’t know what their limitations were. It’s not just a matter of “gay content was censored”; China also has certain censorship restrictions on the portrayal of the undead, among other things. I, unfortunately, am not familiar enough with the ins and outs of Chinese censorship to be able to tell anyone with certainty what was and wasn’t changed for what reason. So I guess just, take whatever my opinions are with a grain of salt! I will largely avoid addressing issues related to how explicitly romantic wangxian is, for obvious reasons.

OKAY. In order to impose some kind of control on how much time I spend on this, I’m going to limit myself to four explicated points in each category, best/worst. Please remember that I change my opinions constantly, so these are just like. the top contenders at this specific point in my life. Starting with the worst so we can end on a positive note!

Henceforth, the novel is MDZS, CQL is CQL.

CQL’s worst crimes, according to cyan:

1. Polarizing Wei Wuxian and Jin Guangyao on the moral spectrum

I’ve heard rumors that this was a censorship issue, but I have never been able to confirm or deny it, so. Again, grain of salt. 

The way that CQL reframed Wei Wuxian and Jin Guangyao’s character arcs drives me up the wall because I think it does a huge disservice to both of them and the overarching themes of the story. Jin Guangyao is shown to be responsible for pretty much all the tragedy post-Sunshot, which absolves Wei Wuxian of all possible wrongdoing and flattens Jin Guangyao into a much less interesting villain.

What I find so interesting about MDZS is how much it emphasizes the role of external forces and situations in determining a person’s fate: that being “good” or “righteous” at heart is simply not enough. You can do everything with all the best intentions and still do harm, still fail, still lose everything. Even “right” choices can have terrible consequences. Everyone starts out innocent. “In this world, everyone starts without grievances, but there is always someone who takes the first blow.”

It matters that Wei Wuxian is the one who loses control and kills Jin Zixuan, that his choices (no matter how impossible and terrible the situation) had consequences because the whole point is that even good people can be forced into corners where they do terrible things. Being good isn’t enough. You can do everything right, make every impossible choice, and fail. You can do the right thing and be punished for it. Maybe you did the right thing, but others suffer for your actions. Is that still the right thing? Is it your fault? Is it? By absolving Wei Wuxian of any conceivable blame, it really changes the narrative conclusion. In MDZS, even the best people can do incomprehensible harm when backed into corners, and the audience is asked to evaluate those actions with nuance. Is a criminal fully culpable for the harm they do when their external circumstances forced them into situations where they felt like they had no good choices left?

Personally, I feel like the novel asks you to forgive Wei Wuxian his wrongs, and, in paralleling him with Jin Guangyao, shows how easily they could have been one another. Both of them are extraordinarily talented sons of commoners; the difference lies in what opportunities they were given as they were growing up and how they choose to react to grievances. Wei Wuxian is adopted early on into the head family of a prominent sect and treated (more or less—not going to get into it) like a son. Jin Guangyao begs, borrows, steals, kills for every scrap of prestige and honor he gets and understands that his position in life is, at all points, extraordinarily unstable. Wei Wuxian doesn’t take his grievances to heart, but Jin Guangyao does.

To be clear, I don’t think the novel places a moral value on holding grudges, if that makes sense. I think MDZS only indicates that acts of vengeance always lead to more bloodshed—that the only escape is to lay down your arms, no matter how bitter the taste. Wei Wuxian was horribly wronged in many ways, and I don’t think I would fault him for wanting revenge or holding onto his anger—but I do think it’s clear that if he did, it would destroy him. It destroys Jin Guangyao, after all.

(It also destroys Xue Yang, and I think the parallel actually also extends to him. Yi City, to me, is a very interesting microcosm of a lot of broader themes in MDZS, and I have a lot of Thoughts on Xue Yang and equivalent justice, etc. etc. but. Thoughts for another time.)

Wei Wuxian is granted a happy ending not because he is Good, but because public opinion has changed, because there’s a new scapegoat, because he is protected by someone in power, because he lets go of the past, and because the children see him for who he is. I really do think that the reason MDZS and CQL have a hopeful ending as opposed to a bleak one hinges on the juniors. We are shown very clearly throughout the story how easily and quickly the tide of public opinion turns. The reason we don’t fear that it’s going to happen to Wei Wuxian again (or any other surviving character we love) is, I think, because the juniors, who don’t lose their childhoods to war, have the capacity to see past their parents’ prejudices and evaluate the actions of the people in front of them without having their opinions clouded by intense trauma and fear. They are forged out of love, not fire.

In CQL however, it emphasizes that Wei Wuxian is Fundamentally Good and did No Wrong Ever, so he deserves his happy ending, while Jin Guangyao is Fundamentally Bad and Responsible For Everything, so he got what was coming to him (even if we feel bad for him maybe). That’s not nearly as interesting or meaningful. 


(One specific change to Jin Guangyao’s timeline of evil that I find particularly vexing, not including the one I will discuss in point 2, is changing when Jin Rusong was conceived. In the novel, Qin Su is supposedly already pregnant by the time they get married, and that matters a WHOLE LOT when evaluating Jin Guangyao’s actions, I think.)

2. Wen POWs used as target obstacles at Baifeng Mountain

I know the first point was “here’s an overarching plot change that I think deeply impacts the narrative themes” and this second one is “I despise this one specific scene detail so much”, but HEAR ME OUT. It’s related to the first point! (tbh, most things are related to the first point)

Personally, I think this one detail character assassinates like. almost everyone in attendance, but most egregiously in no particular order: Jin Guangyao, Jin Zixuan (and by extension, Jiang Yanli), Wei Wuxian, Lan Wangji and Lan Xichen.

First, I think it’s a cheap plot device that’s obviously meant to enhance Jin Guangyao’s ~villainy while emphasizing Wei Wuxian’s growing righteous anger, but it fails so spectacularly, god, I literally hate this detail so much lmao. I’ll go by character.

Jin Guangyao: I get that CQL is invested in him being a ~bad person~ or whatever, but this is such a transparently like, cartoon villain move that lacks subtlety and elegance. Jin Guangyao is very dedicated to being highly diplomatic, appeasing, and non-threatening in his bid for power. He manipulates behind the scenes, does his father’s dirty work, etc. but he always shows a gentle, smiling face. This display tips his hand pretty obviously, and even if it were at the behest of his father, there’s literally no reason for him to be so “ohohoho I’m so evil~” about it—if anything, this would only serve to drive his sympathizers away. It’s a stupid move for him politically, and really undercuts his supposed intelligence and cleverness, in my personal opinion.

Jin Zixuan: yes, he is arrogant and vain and likes to show off! But putting his ego above the safety of innocent people? Like, not necessarily OOC, but it sure makes him much less sympathetic in my eyes. I find it hard to believe that Jiang Yanli would find this laudable or acceptable, but she’s given a few shots where she smiles with some kind of pride and it’s like. No! Do not do my queen dirty like this. She wouldn’t!

Wei Wuxian: where do I start! WHERE DO I START. Wei Wuxian is shown to be “righteously angry” about this, but steps down mutinously when Jiang Cheng motions him back. He looks shocked and outraged at Jin Zixuan for showing off with no concern for the safety of the Wen POWs, only to like, two seconds later, do the exact same thing, but worse! And at the provocation of Jin Zixun, no less! *screams into hands* The tonal shift is bizarre! We’re in this really tense ~moral quandary~, but then he flirts with Lan Wangji for a second (tense music still kinda playing?? it’s awful. I hate it), and then does his trickshot. You know! Putting all these people he’s supposedly so concerned about at risk! To one-up Jin Zixuan! It’s nonsensical. It’s such a conflict of priorities. This is supposed to make him seem honorable and cool, I guess? But it mostly just makes him look like a performative hypocrite. :///

Lan Wangji: I cannot believe that Lan Wangji saw this and did not immediately walk out in protest.

Lan Xichen: this is just one part of a larger problem with Lan Xichen’s arc in CQL vs MDZS, where his character development was an unwitting casualty of both wangxian censorship and CQL’s quest to demonize Jin Guangyao. One of the prevailing criticisms I see of Lan Xichen’s character is that he is a “centrist”, that he “allows bad things to happen through his inaction and desire to avoid conflict”, and that he is “stupid and willfully blind to Jin Guangyao’s faults”, when I don’t think any of this is supported by evidence in the novel whatsoever. Jin Guangyao is a subtle villain! He is a talented manipulator and liar! Even Wei Wuxian says it in the novel!

(forgive my rough translations /o\)

Chapter 49, as Wei Wuxian (through Empathy with Nie Mingjue’s head) listens to Lan Xichen defend Meng Yao immediately following Wen Ruohan’s assassination:

魏无羡心中摇头：“泽芜君这个人还是……太纯善了。”可再一想，他是因为已知金光瑶的种种嫌疑才能如此防备，可在蓝曦臣面前的孟瑶，却是一个忍辱负重，身不由己，孤身犯险的卧底，二人视角不同，感受又如何能相提并论？

Wei Wuxian shook his head to himself: “This Zewu-jun is still…… too pure and kind.” But then he thought again—he could only be so guarded because he already knew of all of Jin Guangyao’s suspicious behavior, but the Meng Yao before Lan Xichen was someone who had had no choice but to suffer in silence for his mission, who placed himself in grave danger, alone, undercover. The two of them had different perspectives, so how could their feelings be compared?

Chapter 63, after Wei Wuxian wakes up in the Cloud Recesses, having been brought there by Lan Wangji:

他不是不能理解蓝曦臣。他从聂明玦的视角看金光瑶，将其奸诈狡猾与野心勃勃尽收眼底，然而，如果金光瑶多年来在蓝曦臣面前一直以伪装相示，没理由要他不去相信自己的结义兄弟，却去相信一个臭名昭著腥风血雨之人。

It wasn’t that he couldn’t understand Lan Xichen. He had seen Jin Guangyao from Nie Mingjue’s perspective, and so had seen all of his treacherous and cunning obsession with ambition. However, if Jin Guangyao had for all these years only shown Lan Xichen a disguise, there was no reason for [Lan Xichen] to believe a famously violent person [Wei Wuxian] over his own sworn brother.

Lan Xichen, throughout the story, is being actively lied to and manipulated by Jin Guangyao. His only “mistake” was being kind and trying to give Meng Yao, someone who came from a place of great disadvantage, the benefit of the doubt instead of immediately dismissing him as worthless due to his birth or his station in life. Lan Xichen sees Meng Yao as someone who was forced to make impossible choices in impossible situations—you know, the way that we, the audience, are led to perceive Wei Wuxian. The only difference is that the story that we’re given about Wei Wuxian is true, while the story that Lan Xichen is given about Meng Yao is… not. But how would have have known?

The instant he is presented with a shred of evidence to the contrary, he revokes Jin Guangyao’s access to the Cloud Recesses, pursues that evidence to the last, and is horrified to discover that his trust was misplaced.

Lan Xichen’s willingness to consider different points of view is integral to Wei Wuxian’s survival and eventual happiness. Without Lan Xichen’s kindness, there is no way that Wei Wuxian would have ever been able to clear his name. Everyone else was calling for his blood, but Lan Wangji took him home, and Lan Xichen not only allowed it, he listened to and helped them. To the characters of the book who are not granted omniscient knowledge of Wei Wuxian’s actions and circumstances, there is literally no difference between Wei Wuxian and Jin Guangyao. Lan Xichen is being incredibly fair when he asks in chapter 63:

蓝曦臣笑了，道：“忘机，你又是如何判定，一个人究竟可信不可信？”

他看着魏无羡，道：“你相信魏公子，可我，相信金光瑶。大哥的头在他手上，这件事我们都没有亲眼目睹，都是凭着我们自己对另一个人的了解，相信那个人的说辞。

“你认为自己了解魏无羡，所以信任他；而我也认为自己了解金光瑶，所以我也信任他。你相信自己的判断，那么难道我就不能相信自己的判断吗？”

Lan Xichen laughed and said, “Wangji, how can you determine exactly who should and should not be believed?”

He looked at Wei Wuxian and said, “You believe Wei-gongzi, but I believe Jin Guangyao. Neither of us saw with our own eyes whether Da-ge’s head was in his possession. We base our opinions on our own understandings of someone else, our belief in their testimony.

“You think you understand Wei Wuxian, and so you trust him; I also think I understand Jin Guangyao, so I trust him. You trust your own judgment, so can’t I trust my own judgment as well?”

But he hears them out, examines the proof, and acts immediately.

I really do feel like this aspect of Lan Xichen kind of… became collateral damage in CQL. Because Jin Guangyao is so much more publicly malicious, Lan Xichen’s alleged “lack of action” feels much less understandable or acceptable.

It is wild to me that in this scene, Lan Xichen reacts with discomfort to the proceedings, but has nothing to say to Jin Guangyao about it afterwards and also applauds Wei Wuxian’s archery. (I could talk about Nie Mingjue here as well, but I would say Nie Mingjue and Lan Xichen have very different perspectives on morality, so this moment isn’t necessarily OOC for NMJ, but I do think is very OOC for LXC.) This scene (among a few others that have Jin Guangyao being more openly “evil”) makes Lan Xichen look like a willfully blind bystander by the end of the story, but having him react with any action would have been inconvenient for the plot. Thus, he behaves exactly as he did in the book, but under very different circumstances. It reads inconsistently with the rest of his character (since a lot of the beats in the novel still happen in the show), and weakens the narrative surrounding his person.

None of these overt displays of cruelty or immorality happen in the book, so it makes perfect sense that he doesn’t do or suspect anything! Jin Guangyao is, as stated, perfectly disguised towards Lan Xichen. You can’t blame him for “failing to act” when someone was purposefully keeping him in the dark and, from his perspective, there was nothing to act upon.

This scene specifically is almost purely lighthearted in the novel! If you take out the Wen POWs, this just becomes a fun scene where Wei Wuxian shows off, flirts with Lan Wangji, gets into a pissing match with Jin Zixuan, and is overall kind of a brat! It’s great! I love this scene! The blindfolded shot is ridiculous and over-the-top and very cute!

I know this is a lot of extrapolation, but the whole scene is soured for me due to you know. *gestures upwards* Which is really a shame because it’s one of my favorite silly scenes in the book! Alas! @ CQL why! ;A;

3. Lan Xichen already being an adult and sect leader at the start of the show

This is rapidly becoming a, “Lan Xichen was Wronged and I Have the Receipts” essay (oh no), but you know what, that’s fine I guess! I never said I was impartial!

CQL makes Lan Xichen seem much older and more experienced than he is in the novel, though we’re not given his specific age. In the novel, he is not sect leader yet when Wei Wuxian and co. arrive at the Cloud Recesses for lectures. His father, Qingheng-jun, is in seclusion, and his uncle is the de facto leader of the sect. Lan Xichen does not become sect leader until his father dies at the burning of the Cloud Recesses. Moreover, my understanding of the text is that he is at most 19 years old when this happens. Wen Ruohan remarks that Lan Xichen is still a junior at the beginning of the Sunshot Campaign in chapter 61. (If someone has a different interpretation of the term 小辈, please correct me.) In any case! Lan Xichen is young.

Lan Xichen ascends to power under horrific circumstances: he is not an adult, his father has just been murdered, his uncle seriously injured, his brother kidnapped, and his home burnt to the ground. He is on the run, alone! Carrying the sacred texts of his family and trying to stay alive so his sect is not completely wiped out on the eve of war! He is terrified, inexperienced, and unprepared!

You know, just like Jiang Cheng, a few months later!

I see a lot of people lambasting Lan Xichen for not stepping up to protect the Wen remnants post-Sunshot, but I’m always flummoxed by the accusations because I don’t see criticisms of Jiang Cheng with remotely the same vitriol, even though their political positions are nearly identical:

they are both extraordinarily young sect leaders who came to power before they expected to through incredible violence done to their families

because of this, they are in very weak political positions: they have very little experience to offer as evidence of their competence and right to respect. if they are considered adults, they have only very recently come of age.

Jin Guangshan, who is rapidly and greedily taking the place of the Wen clan in the vacuum of power, is shown to be more than willing to mow people down to get what he wants—and he has the power to do so.

both Yunmeng Jiang and Gusu Lan were crippled by the Wen clan prior to Sunshot. And they just fought a war that lasted two and a half years. they are hugely weakened and in desperate need of time to rebuild, mourn, etc. both Jiang Cheng and Lan Xichen are responsible for the well-being of all of these people who are now relying upon them.

I think it’s very obvious that Jiang Cheng is in an impossible situation because he wears his fears and insecurities on his face and people in power (cough Jin Guangshan) prey upon that, while we, as the audience, have a front row seat for that whole tragedy. We understand his choices, even if they hurt us.

Why shouldn’t Lan Xichen be afforded the same consideration?

I really do think that because he’s presented as someone who’s much more composed and confident in his own abilities than Jiang Cheng is, we tend to forget exactly what pressures he was facing at the same time. We just assume, oh yes, of course Lan Xichen has the power to do something! He’s Lan Xichen! The First Jade! Isn’t he supposed to be Perfectly Good? Why isn’t he doing The Right Thing?

I think this is exacerbated by CQL’s decision to make him an established sect leader at the start of the show with several years of experience under his belt. We don’t know his age, but he is assumed to be an Adult. This gives him more power and stability, and so it seems more unacceptable that he does not make moves to protect the Wen remnants, even if in essence, he and Jiang Cheng’s political positions are still quite similar. He doesn’t really have any more power to save the Wen remnants without placing his whole clan in danger of being wiped out again, but CQL implies that he does, even if it isn’t the intention of the change.

It does make me really sad that this change also drives a further thematic divide between Lan Xichen and the rest of his generation. Almost everyone in that generation came of age through a war, which I think informs the way their tragedies play out, and how those tragedies exist in contrast to the juniors’ behavior and futures. Making Lan Xichen an experienced adult aligns him with the generation prior to him, which, as we’re shown consistently, is the generation whose adherence to absolutism and fear ruined the lives of their children. But Lan Xichen is just as much a victim of this as his peers.

(the exception being maybe Nie Mingjue, but it’s complicated. I think Nie Mingjue occupies a very interesting position in the narrative, but like. That’s. For another time! this is. already so far out of hand. oh my god this is point three out of eight oh nO)

(yet another aside because I can’t help myself: can you believe we were robbed of paralleling scenes of Jiang Cheng and Lan Xichen’s coronations? the visual drama of that. the poetic cinema. it’s not in the book, but can you IMAGINE. thank u @paledreamsblackmoths​ for putting this image into my head so that I can suffer forever knowing that I’ll never get it.)

I said I wasn’t going to talk at length about any changes surrounding Wangxian’s explicit romance for obvious reasons, but I will at least lament here that because a large percentage of Lan Xichen’s actions and character beats are directly in relation to Lan Wangji’s love for Wei Wuxian, he loses a lot of both minor and major moments to the censors as well. Many of the instances when he encourages Lan Wangji to talk to Wei Wuxian, when he indulges in their relationship etc. are understandably gone. But the most significant moment that was cut for censorship reasons I think is when he loses his temper with Wei Wuxian at the Guanyin temple and lays into him with all the fury and terror he felt for his brother’s broken heart for the last thirteen years.

Lan Xichen is only shown to express true anger twice in the whole story, both times at the Guanyin temple: first against Wei Wuxian for what he perceives as gross disregard for his little brother’s convictions, and second against Jin Guangyao for his massive betrayal of trust. And you know, murdering his best friend. Among other things.

I’m genuinely so sad that we don’t get to see Lan Xichen tear Wei Wuxian to shreds for what he did to Lan Wangji because I think one of the most important aspects to Lan Xichen’s character is how much he loves, cares for and fears for his little brother. The reveal about Lan Wangji’s punishment in episode 43 is a sad and sober conversation, but it’s not nearly as impactful, especially because Wei Wuxian asks about it of his own volition. I understand that this isn’t CQL’s fault! But. I can still mourn it right? ahahaha. :’)

I’ll stop before I descend further into nothing but Lan Xichen meta because that’s. Dangerous. (I have a lot of Feelings about how there are three characters who are held up as paragons of virtue in MDZS, how they all suffered in spite of their goodness, and how that all ties directly into the whole, “it is not enough to be good, but kindness is never wrong” theme. Anyways, they’re Xiao Xingchen, Jiang Yanli, and Lan Xichen, but NOT NOW. NOT TODAY.)

So yes, I’m a Lan Xichen apologist on main, and yes, I understand my feelings are incredibly personally motivated and influenced by my subjective emotions, but no I do not take concrit on this point, thank you very much.

4. all of the Wen remnants turning themselves in alongside Wen Qing and Wen Ning

Okay, back to plot changes. This change I would be willing to bet money was at least partially due to censorship, but it hurts me so deeply hahaha. It makes literally no sense for any of the characters and it completely janks the timeline of events post Qiongqi Dao 2.0 through Wei Wuxian’s death.

It’s not ALL bad—this change makes it easier for the Peak Wangxian moment at the Bloodbath at Nightless City (You know. Hands. Cliff. etc.) to happen, which I did very much enjoy. It’s pretty on-brand for CQL to sacrifice plot for character beats that they want to emphasize, so like. I get it! This moment is a huge gift! I Understand This. CQL collapses the Bloodbath at Nightless City and the First Siege of the Mass Graves into one event for I think a few reasons. One, Wangxian moment without being explicitly Wangxian, which is excellent. Two, it circumvents the Blood Corpse scene, which I do not think would have made it past censorship.

I’ll get to the Blood Corpse scene in a minute, but despite being able to understand why so much might have been sacrificed for the impact of the cliff scene, I still wish it had been done differently (and I feel like it could have been!), if only for my peace of mind because the plot holes it creates are pretty gaping.

The entire point of Wen Qing and Wen Ning turning themselves in is specifically to save their family members and Wei Wuxian from coming to further harm. That’s explicit, even in the show. Jin Guangshan demands that the Wen brother and sister stand for their crimes and claims that the blood debt will be paid. The Wen remnants understand that Wei Wuxian has given up so much for their sakes, that he has lost his family, his home, his respectability, his health, all in the name of sheltering them. To throw all of that away would be the greatest disrespect to his sacrifices. Wen Qing and Wen Ning decide that if their lives can pay for the safety of their loved ones and ensure that Wei Wuxian’s sacrifices matter, they are willing to go together and give themselves up.

So. Why did they. All go?? For… moral support???? D: Wen Qing says that Wei Wuxian will wake up in three days and that she’s given Fourth Uncle and the others instructions for his care–but then Fourth Uncle and the others all go with them!! To die!! There’s also very clearly a shot of Granny Wen taking A’Yuan with them, which like. Obviously didn’t really happen.

Wen Qing, who loves her family more than anything in the world, agrees that they should all go to Lanling and sacrifice themselves to…. protect Wei Wuxian? Wen Qing, pragmatic queen of my heart, agrees to this absurdly bad exchange?? Leaves Wei Wuxian to wake up, alone, with the knowledge that he had not only killed his brother-in-law but also effectively gotten everyone he had left killed also??

I can’t imagine Wen Qing doing that to Wei Wuxian. Save his life? For what? This takes away everything he has left to live for. You think Wen Qing doesn’t intimately understand how cruel that would be?

(Yes, I’m complaining about all of this, but I’m still about to cry because I rewatched the scene to make sure I didn’t say anything untrue, and  g o d  it manages to hit hard despite all of that, so who’s the real clown here!!)

Anyways. So that’s all just like. Frustratingly incoherent. It’s one of several wrongs I think CQL committed against Wen Qing’s character, but my feelings about Wen Qing in CQL are pretty complicated (I love her so much, and I love that we got more Wen Qing content, but that content sure is a mixed bag of stuff I really enjoyed and stuff I desperately wish didn’t exist) and I decided I wasn’t going to get into it in this post. (is anyone even still reading god)

This change also muddles Lan Wangji’s choices and punishment in ways that I think diminishes the severity of the situation to the detriment of both his characterization and his family’s characterization. The punishment scene is extremely moving and you should read this post about the language used in it but. sldfjsljslkf.

okay well, several things. In the context of CQL, which really pushes the “righteousness” angle of Wei Wuxian (see point 1), I think this scene makes a lot of sense in isolation: both Lan Wangji and Wei Wuxian are painted as martyrs for doing the right thing. “Who’s right and who’s wrong?” The audience is asked to see the punishment as “unjust”. That’s perfectly fine and coherent in the context of CQL, but I don’t think it’s nearly as interesting as what happens in MDZS.

Because CQL collapses both the First Siege and the Bloodbath into one event, Lan Wangji’s crimes are sort of unclearly defined. In episode 43, when Lan Xichen is explaining the situation, we see a flashback to when Su She says something along the lines of, “We could set aside the fact that you defended Wei Ying at Nightless City, but now you won’t even let us search his den?” (of course, this gives us the really excellent “you are not qualified to talk to me” line which. delicious. extremely vindicating and satisfying. petty king lan wangji.) Lan Xichen goes on to say something like, “Wangji alone caused several disturbances at the Mass Graves. Uncle was greatly angered, and [decreed his punishment]”. (Sorry, I’m too lazy to type out the full lines with translations, just. trust me on this one.)

Lan Wangji’s actions are shown to be motivated by a righteous love. Wei Wuxian is portrayed as someone innocent who stood up for the right thing against popular opinion and was scapegoated and destroyed for it, having done no wrong. (See, point 1 again.)

In MDZS, Lan Wangji’s crimes are very specific. It isn’t just that he caused some “disturbances” (this is just Lan XIchen’s vague phrasing in CQL—we don’t really know what he did). He steals Wei Wuxian away from the Bloodbath at Nightless City, after Wei Wuxian killed thousands of people, and hides him away in a cave, feeding him spiritual energy to save his life. When Lan Wangji’s family comes to find him, demand that he hand over Wei Wuxian (who is, remember, a mass murderer at this point! we can argue about how culpable he is for those actions all day—that’s the whole point, but the people are still dead), Lan Wangji not only refuses, but raises his hands against his family. He seriously injures thirty-three Lan elders to protect Wei Wuxian.

I don’t know how to emphasize how serious that crime is? Culturally, this is like. Unthinkable. To raise your hand against members of your own family, your elders who loved and raised you, in defense of an outsider, a man who, by all accounts, is horrifically evil and just murdered thousands of people, including other members of your own family, is like. That’s a serious betrayal. Oh my god. Lan Wangji, what have you done?

Lan Xichen explains in chapter 99:

我去看他的时候对他说，魏公子已铸成大错，你何苦错上加错了。他却说……他无法断言你所作所为对错如何，但无论对错，他愿意与你一起承担所有后果。

When I went to see him, I said, “Wei-gongzi’s great wrongs are already set in stone, why take the pains to add wrongs upon wrongs?” But he said…… he had no way to ascertain the rights and wrongs of your actions, but regardless of right or wrong, he was willing to bear all the consequences with you.

I think this is very different than what’s going on in CQL, though the differences appear subtle on the surface. In CQL, Lan Wangji demands of his uncle, “Dare I ask Uncle, who is righteous and who is wicked, who is wrong and who is right?” but the very act of asking in this way implies that Lan Wangji has an opinion on the matter (though perhaps not a simple one). 

Lan Wangji in MDZS specifically says that he doesn’t know how to evaluate the morality of Wei Wuxian’s actions, but that regardless, he is willing to bear the consequences of his choices and his actions. He understands that his actions while sheltering Wei Wuxian are not clearly morally defensible. He did it anyways because he loved Wei Wuxian, because he thought that Wei Wuxian was worth saving, that there was still something good in him, despite the things he had done under mitigating circumstances. Lan Wangji did not save Wei Wuxian because he thought it was the right thing to do. He saved him because he loved him.

He is given thirty-three lashes with the discipline whip, one for each elder he maimed, and this leaves him bedridden for three years. Is this punishment horrifyingly severe? Yes! But is it unjustly given? I think that’s a much harder question to answer in the context of the story.

Personally, I think that question underscores the broader questions of morality contained within MDZS. I think it’s a much more interesting take on Wei Wuxian and Lan Wangji as individuals. This asks, what can be pardoned? The righteous martyr angle is uncomplicated because moral certainty is easy. I think the situation in MDZS is far more uncomfortable if you examine its implications. And personally, I think that’s more meaningful!

(Not even going to touch on the whole, 300 strokes with a giant rod, but he has whip scars? And they were also sentenced to 300 strokes as kids for drinking alcohol…? CQL is not. consistent. on that front. ahaha.)

God, every point so far in this meta is just like “here’s one change that has cascading effects upon the rest of the show” dear god, okay, I’m getting to the Blood Corpse scene.

So in MDZS, the Wen remnants (besides Wen Ning and Wen Qing) do not go to Lanling. After the Bloodbath at Nightless City, Lan Wangji returns Wei Wuxian to the Mass Graves. Wei Wuxian lives with the Wen remnants for another three months before the First Siege, where he dies and the rest of the Wens are killed (except A’Yuan).

(Sidenote that I won’t get into: I love the dead spaces of time that MDZS creates. There’s very clear gaps in the narrative that we just never get the details on, most notably: Wei Wuxian’s three months in the Mass Graves post core transfer, and Wei Wuxian’s three months in the Mass Graves post Jiang Yanli’s death. They’re both extremely terrible times, but the audence is asked to imagine it instead of ever learning what really happened, what it was like. There’s something really cool about that narratively, I think.)

The Wen remnants are not cremated along with the rest of the dead. Their bodies are thrown into the blood pool.

At the Second Siege, when Wei Wuxian draws a Yin Summoning Flag on his clothes to turn himself into bait for the corpses in order to allow everyone else to escape to safety while he and Lan Wangji fight them off, there’s a moment when it gets really, truly dangerous—even with the help of the juniors and a few of the adults, they probably would have been killed. But then a wave of blood-soaked corpses come crawling out of the blood pool of their own accord and tear their attackers apart.

At the end of it, the blood corpses, the Wen remnants, gather before Lan Wangji and Wei Wuxian and Wen Ning. Wei Wuxian thanks them, they exchange bows, and the blood corpses collapse into dust. Wen Ning scrambles to gather their ashes, but runs out of space in his clothing. Several juniors, seeing this, offer up their bags to him and try to help.

It’s just. This scene is so important to me. Obviously, it couldn’t be included in CQL because of the whole undead thing, but it’s such a shame because I maintain that the Blood Corpse scene is one of the most powerful scenes in the whole goddamn book. It ties together so many things that I care about! It’s the moment when the narrative says, “kindness is not a waste”. Wei Wuxian failed to save them, but that doesn’t mean that his actions were done in vain. What he did matters. The year of life he bought them matters. The time they spent together matters.

This is also the moment when the juniors finally see Wen Ning for who he is—not the terrifying Ghost General, but a gentle man who has just lost his family for a second time. This is the moment when they reach out with kindness to the monster that their parents told them about at night. It matters that the juniors are able to do that! That they see this man suffering and are moved to compassion instead of righteous satisfaction.

(Except Jin Ling, for very understandable reasons, but Jin Ling’s moment comes later.)

It’s also the moment that we’re starkly reminded that many of the adults in attendance were present at the First Siege and directly responsible for the murders of the Wen remnants, including Ouyang Zizhen’s father. We’re reminded that he’s not just a comically annoying man with bad takes—he also participated in the murder of innocent people and then disrespected their corpses. But what retribution should be taken against him and the others? What retribution could be taken that wouldn’t lead to more tragedy?

There’s someone in the crowd in this scene named Fang Mengchen who refuses to be swayed by Wei Wuxian’s actions. “He killed my parents,” he says. “What about them? How can I let that go?”

“What more do you want from me?” Wei Wuxian asks. “I have already died once. You do not have to forgive me, but what more should I do?”

That is the ultimate question, isn’t it? What is the only way out of tragedy? You don’t have to forgive, but you cannot continue to take your retribution. It is not fair, but it’s all you have.

okay. so. those were my four Big Points of Contention with CQL, as I am currently experiencing them.

Honorable mentions go to: Wen Qing’s arc (both excellent and awful in different ways), making 13/16 years of Inquiry canon (I think this is untrue to Lan Wangji’s character, though I can understand why it was done), Mianmian’s departure from the Lanling Jin sect being shortened and having the sexism cut out (there’s something really visceral about the accusations against Mianmian being explicitly about her womanhood that I desperately wish had been retained in the show), cutting the scene where Jin Ling cries in mourning for Jin Guangyao and is scolded for it by Sect Leader Yao (my heart for that scene because it also matters so much)

but now!! onto the fun part, where I talk effusively about how much I love CQL!! this will probably be shorter (*prays*) because a lot of my frustrations with CQL are related to spiraling thematic consequences while the things I love are like. Simpler to pinpoint? If that makes sense? we’ll see.

CQL’s greatest virtues, also according to cyan:

1. this:

[ID: Wei Wuxian, trembling in fear, screaming “shijie!” as Jiang Cheng threatens him with Fairy in episode 34 of The Untamed drama. /end ID]

I understand that this is like, a very minor, specific detail change, but oh my GOD, it is like. Unparalleled. Every time I think about this change, I get so emotional and disappointed that it’s not in the novel, because I think it strengthens this scene tenfold. In the novel, Wei Wuxian calls out for Lan Zhan, which like, I get it. The story at this point is focused on the development of his romantic feelings for Lan Wangji, so the point of the scene is that the first person he thinks of in a moment of extreme fear is Lan Zhan, which surprises him. That’s fine. Like, it’s fine! But I think it doesn’t have nearly the same weight as Wei Wuxian calling for his sister to save him from his brother. 

Having Wei Wuxian call out for his sister drives home the loss that the two of them have suffered, and highlights the relationship they all once had. Jiang Yanli is much more relevant to shuangjie’s narrative than Lan Wangji ever was, and this highlights exactly how deeply the fracturing of their familial relationship cuts. Wangxian gets so much time and focus throughout the rest of the novel. I love that this moment in the show is just about the Yunmeng siblings because that relationship is no less important, you know?

Calling out for Jiang Yanli in the show draws a much cleaner line through the dialogue. “You dare bring her up before me?” to “Don’t you remember what you said to Jin Ling?” It unifies the scene and twists the knife. It also gives us more insight into how fiercely Wei Wuxian was once beloved and protected by his siblings. Jiang Cheng promised to chase all the dogs away from Wei Wuxian when they were children. It’s clear that Jiang Yanli did as well.

Once upon a time, Wei Wuxian’s siblings defended him from his fears, and now one of them is dead and the other is using that fear to hurt him where he’s weakest. The reversal is so painfully juxtaposed, and it’s done with just that one flashback of Wei Wuxian as a child leaping into Jiang Yanli’s arms and calling out her name. Extremely good, economical storytelling. The conversation between shuangjie is much more focused on their own stories independent from Lan Wangji, which I very much appreciate. Wangxian, you’re wonderful, but this ain’t about you, and I don’t think it should be.

2. Extended Jiang Yanli content (and by extension, Jin Zixuan and Mianmian content)

Speaking of absolute goddess Jiang Yanli, I really loved what CQL did with her (unlike my more mixed feelings about Wen Qing). Having her in so many more scenes makes her importance to Jiang Cheng and Wei Wuxian a lot clearer, and we get to experience her as a person rather than an ideal.

On a purely aesthetic level, Jiang Yanli’s styling and character design is so stellar in CQL. The more prevalent design for her is kind of childish in the styling, which I don’t love (I think it’s the donghua influence?). And even I, someone who’s audio drama on main 24/7, personally prefer her CQL voice actor. There’s only a few characters in CQL that I look at and go “ah yes, that’s [character] 100%” and Jiang Yanli is one of them. I was blessed. I would lay down my life for her.

I’m really glad that CQL showed her illness more explicitly and gave her a sword, even if she never uses it! Her weak constitution is only mentioned once in the novel in chapter 69 in like two lines that I blew past initially because I was reading at breakneck speed and was only reminded of when my therapist who I conned into reading mdzs after 8 months of never shutting up oof brought it to my attention like two weeks ago. /o\

We never read about Jiang Yanli carrying a sword in the novel, though we are told that her cultivation is “mediocre”, so we know that she at least does cultivate, even if not very well. Highlighting her poor health in CQL makes her situation more clear, I think, and explains a little more about the way she’s perceived throughout the cultivation world as someone “not worthy of Jin Zixuan”. The novel tells us that Jiang Yanli is not an extraordinary beauty, not very good at cultivation, sort of bland in her expressions, and, very briefly, that she’s in poor health. I really love that description of Jiang Yanli, because it emphasizes that her worth has nothing at all to do with her talents, her health, her cultivation, her physical strength, or her beauty. She is the best person in the whole world, her brothers adore her, and the audience loves and respects her for reasons wholly unrelated to those value judgments. We love her because she is kind, because she is loyal, because she loves so deeply. Tbh, her only imperfection is falling for someone so tragically undeserving of her. (JK, I love you Jin Zixuan, and you do deserve her because you are an excellent boy who grows and changes and learns!! I can’t even be mean to characters as a joke god.)

Anyways, I just think the detail about her health is compelling and informs her character’s position in the world in a very specific way. I’m happy that CQL brought it to the forefront when it was kind of an easily-missed throwaway in the novel. It does mean something to me that Jiang Yanli, despite her poor physical health, is never once seen or treated as a burden by her brothers.

Something partially related that really hit hard was this:

[ID: two gifs. Jiang Yanli peeling lotus pods, looking up uncomfortably as her mother loses her temper about the Wen indoctrination at the table from episode 11 of The Untamed drama. /end ID]

D8 AAAAHHH this was VISCERAL. The novel is quite sparse in a lot of its descriptions and lets the audience fill in the missing details, so Jiang Yanli’s expression and reactions are not described when, after Jiang Cheng quickly volunteers to go to Qishan, Madam Yu accuses her of continuing to “happily peel lotus seeds” in such a dire situation.

“Of course you’ll go,” she snaps to Jiang Cheng. “Or else do you think we should let your sister go?”

This scene triggered me so bad lmfao, so I guess it’s kind of weird that I love it so much, but I felt Seen. Something about the way her nail slips in the second gif as she breaks open the pod is like. Oh, that’s a sense memory! Of me, as a child, witnessing uncomfortable conflict between people I cared about. I know this is an extremely personal bias, but hey, so is this whole meta. Because Jiang Yanli is often silent and quiet, it’s more her behavior and expressions that convey her character. It’s why the moment she lets loose on Jin Zixun is so powerful. We don’t get to see a lot of it in the novel, but because CQL is a visual medium, her character is a lot easier to pin down as a human as opposed to an abstract concept.

Anyways, in this moment, which I also think is a tangential reference to her weak constitution (it doesn’t feel like, “your sister can’t go because she’s a girl”; it feels like, “your sister can’t go because she couldn’t handle it”), we get to see Jiang Yanli’s own reaction to her perceived inadequacy. We see it in other places too—like how upset she is when Jin Zixuan dismisses her in several scenes, but this is the one that hits me the hardest because it’s about how her weakness is going to put her little brother in grave danger.

Last Yunmeng siblings with focus on Jiang Yanli scene that isn’t in the novel that I’m just absolutely wrecked over: the dream sequence in episode 28, when Jiang Yanli dreams about Wei Wuxian sailing away from her, but no matter how she shouts, or how she begs Jiang Cheng to help her, she can’t bring him back home.

I’m not going to gif it because I literally just like, fast-forwarded through it and started sobbing uncontrollably in front of my laptop, dear god.

I don’t know where the CQL writers found the backdoor directly into my brain’s nightmare center, but?? they sure did! IDK, I can see how this might be kind of heavy-handed, but it just. The sensation of being in a dream where something is going terribly wrong, but you’re the only one who seems to see it happening? But there’s nothing you can do? I feel like it’s a very fitting nightmare to give Jiang Yanli, who is acutely aware and constantly reminded of how little power she has in the world: not good enough for the boy she likes, not healthy enough to cultivate well, not strong enough to keep her family together.

The whole, elder siblings trying and failing to protect their younger siblings pattern is A Lot in the story, but there’s something particularly painful about seeing it happen to Jiang Yanli because of that awareness. All the other elder siblings are exceptionally talented or powerful in obvious ways. All Jiang Yanli has is the force of her will and the force of her love, and she knows it isn’t enough.

I care a lot about the Yunmeng siblings, okay! And I think CQL did right by them!

I’m only going to spend two seconds talking about Jin Zixuan and Mianmian, but I DO want to mention them.

Anyways, because we get more Jiang Yanli content, we ALSO get more soft xuanli, which is Very Good. Literally my kingdom for disaster het Jin Zixuan treating my girl right!! CQL said het rights, and I’m not even mad about it! I’m really happy that we get to see a little more of how their relationship plays out, and how hard Jin Zixuan works to change his behavior and apologize to her for his mistakes. The novel is from Wei Wuxian’s POV, so we miss the details, alas. Jin Zixuan covered in mud, planting lotuses? Blessed.

I think part of making Mianmian a larger speaking role is for convenience’s sake, but oh boy do I love that choice. Especially the Jin Zixuan & Mianmian relationship. Like, they’re so clearly platonic, and Mianmian is never once portrayed as a threat to Jiang Yanli. They just care about and respect each other a lot? Jin Zixuan’s distress when she defects from the Jin sect gets me in the heart, because it’s just like. God. I think there’s a lot of interesting potential there for her own thoughts re: Wei Wuxian. After all, she leaves her sect in defense of him, but he later kills a friend that she respects and loves. The moments shared between her and Jin Zixuan are minor, but they hint at a deeper relationship that I’m really glad was in the show.

3. To curb the strong, defend the weak: lantern scene (gusu) + rain scene (qiongqi dao 1.0)

I think I basically already explained why I love this so much in this post (just consider that post and this point to be the same haha), but just. Okay. A short addendum.

As much as I love novel wangxian, I really think that including this scene early on emphasizes why Lan Wangji loves Wei Wuxian so deeply. Of course he thinks Wei Wuxian is attractive, but this is the moment when he realizes, oh, this is who I love. Having that moment to reflect upon throughout Wei Wuxian’s descent is so excellent. I have enumerated all of my issues with the “perfectly righteous Wei Wuxian” arc that CQL crafted, but having this narrative throughline in conjunction with the novel arc would be like. My favored supercanon ahaha. (It would need some tweaking, but I think it would work.) It shows us exactly who it is that Lan Wangji sees and is trying to save, who he thinks is still there, underneath all the carnage and despair and violence and grief. This is the Wei Wuxian Lan Wangji loves and is unwilling to let go. This is the Wei Wuxian that Lan Wangji would kill for, that Lan Wangji would stand beside, that Lan Wangji would live for.

4. Meeting Songxiao

As much as I love the unnameable ache of Wei Wuxian never meeting Xiao Xingchen and learning only about his story through secondhand sources in the novel (and the really cool parallel to that where Xiao Xingchen tells A’Qing the story of Baoshan-sanren’s ill-fated disciples: both Xiao Xingchen and Wei Wuxian learn of each other only through the eyes of others, and that is Very Neat), I think the reversal that this meeting in episode 10 sets up wins out just slightly.

I said once in the tags on one of my posts that “songxiao is the tragic parallel of wangxian” and like. Yeah. Basically! If we take songxiao as romantic, the arc of their relationship happens inversely to wangxian, and that parallel is so much clearer and stronger when we have wangxian meeting songxiao in their youth.

The scene of their meeting really does have that Mood™ of uncertain youth seeing happy and secure adults living out the dreams that they’re afraid to name. Wei Wuxian’s eager little, “oh! just like me and Lan Zhan!! Right, Lan Zhan??” when songxiao talk about cultivating together through shared ideals and not blood is. Well, it’s Something.

When they meet again at Yi City, there’s a greater heaviness to it. So this is what happened to the people you once dreamed of becoming! Wangxian have already come to a point where they have an unspoken understanding of their relationship, but Songxiao have lost everything they once had. When Song Lan looks at wangxian, it’s like looking at a mirror of his past, and everyone in attendance knows it.

To me, that unspoken parallel is really emotionally and thematically valuable. All that good, and here is the tragedy that came of it.

okay, look! I managed to keep it shorter!! here are my honorable mentions: that scene where Jin Guangyao tries to hold Jin Ling and Jin Guangshan refuses to let him (it’s hating Jin Guangshan hours all day every day in this household), the grass butterfly leitmotif for Sizhui (im literally crying right now about it shut up), the Jiang Cheng/Wen Qing sideplot (look I know it’s wild that I actually liked that given that I headcanon JC as aspec, but I actually really like how it played out, specifically because Wen Qing and Wei Wuxian are NOT romantic—it sets up an unexpected and interesting comparison)

um. Anyways. I uh. really care about this story. And have a lot of thoughts, which I’m sure will continue to evolve. Maybe in 8 months I’ll return to this and go well, literally none of this applies anymore, but who knows! It’s how I feel right now. I cried literally three times while writing this because MDZS/CQL reached into my chest and yanked my heart right out of my body, but I had fun! *finger guns*

and like, I know I had a LOT to say about what frustrated me about CQL, but I really really hope it’s clear that I adore the show despite all of that. I talk a lot because I care a lot, and my brain only has one setting.

anon, this was like 1000% more than you bargained for, I’m SURE, (and I’m still exercising some restraint, if you can. believe that.) but I hope that you or someone out there got something out of it! if you made it all the way to the end of this meta, wow!! consider me surprised and grateful!!

time to crawl back into my hovel so I can write Lan Xichen fic and cry

(ko-fi? ;A;)

[fixielixie]

look i never thought when i first created a tumblr account back when i was like 13 that id ever reach the point where i would be sitting down to make a post on how a fictional character being a DomTop and indulging his partners noncon kink does /not/ somehow destroy his characterisation but here i am.

so the incense burner chapters... admittedly, i can understand why theyre not to everyones taste but ive seen some wild takes on how it "destroys lwjs characterisation and boils him down to a stereotypical top" and tbh i just wanna defend lwj.

as a disclaimer, i just wanna say that personally, i think porn is one of the hardest things to translate well. like porn is already so hard to write well in the first place, so having it go through a translator is always gonna change the quality. so i feel like we should all take that into account before we start the whole "mxtx cant write porn" shit, because maybe her porn slaps but we arent getting the full experience (if any chinese speakers out there who've read the incense burner chapters in chinese wanna correct me on that, feel free to do so).

okay so the first point i wanna hit is that wwx, in contrast to popular belief, had stated his interest in CNC before the incense burner chapters even happen (i would nearly say that him bringing it up might have influence lwjs subconscious in a way). in chapter 115, wwx has a clear fantasy of what he thinks rape play should be, and tries first to insinuate it with lwj. when lwj makes no interest in being the reciever here, wwx offers himself up to which lwj enthusiastically responds.

what this scene does is basically set up a roleplay scene between two consenting parties that they eventually follow through with. an almost foreshadowing of whats to come if you will.

then we have the first incense burner dream. here we see two different vision, wwxs domestic haven and then lwjs fantasy of him and wwx in the library. now, to be fair, lwjs dream is told in a lot of detail and if youre anyway uncomfortable with noncon at all, of course you would find this a very uncomfortable read. to wwx and lwj its just a fantasy, in the same way that when wx first had sex, wwx told him that he should have just forced himself on him in the first place. its clearly a concept wwx in particular thinks a lot about.

but my point here is that lan wangji fantasising about something like this doesnt destroy his character, for the direct narrative sequence it follows, it actually makes sense that he was fantasising about this. especially when so much of wangxians sex dynamic is wwx pushing and prodding at lwjs restraint until he snaps. its clearly a dynamic they both enjoy and eagerly participate in. anyone is perfectly within their right to not like these chapters, but it also probably means you dont like wangxians sex scenes in general considering nearly all of them hold a similar tone, just not as intensely as the ones in the incense burners.

in the second incense burner chapter with a young lan wangji and an older wei wuxian, you actually see wangxian doing the bare minimum of setting up a cnc scene. wwx teases a younger lwj, unsure if its his one of just a dream one like the pervious dream. he wakes up and finds out lwj was actually playing the role of his younger self. both of them with that knowledge enter the dream a second time and then we have the infamous bichen scene.

idk i just feel like people want to make these moments into something theyre not. personally i think wangxians bedroom dynamic fits them perfectly, gay men are allowed to like topping without it being some hidden hate crime. let wangxian do their cringey role play and be freaky. god bless.