#jin sect wei wuxian

[poorly-drawn-mdzs]

News spreads fast.

[First] Prev <–-> Next

[momzawa-5]

Hear me out…

Ok. So. In the world of MDZS, sect leaders and their heirs are determined based on lineage following a fairly common order of succession.

Jiang Fengmian dies, it goes to his son.

Nie Mingjue dies, it goes to his brother.

And so on and so forth…

This is also true of the Jin sect, with the caveat that any child born of the sect leader’s blood seems to have a shot at becoming sect leader, not just those born of the sect leader and his wife (Also just realized this applies to the Nie sect, too, considering the Nie brothers have different mothers). Which is how “son of a whore” Jin Guangyao became sect leader, bypassing next-in-the-order-of-succession Jin Ling, who was still a child.

So, because Jin Ling is still a child when Jin Guangyao dies, leadership of the Jin Sect *should* theoretically go to the next adult in the sect leader’s bloodline.

And who would that be?

Mo Xuanyu.

…and that’s the story of how Wei Wuxian got the last laugh and became leader of the Jin sect.

[elogval]

Special food for special kids ❤️

[carrot-felisidad]

Fic idea: Jiang Cheng was cursed to say and do what he really feels for a day.

He caresses Wei Wuxian's cheeks and says how proud he is of him. He hugs Jin Ling and confesses that he's the center of his world. He praises his disciples and expresses how happy he is for staying with him. He swam around the lotus pond on only his inner robes as he always dreams of doing. He sweet-talked Lan Xichen out of seclusion. He glared at Lan Wangji and told him to get lost.

[oh-dameron]

The ranking seems to consider status, cultivation ability, personality and looks. In this case JGY's status would be as a son of a second wife/concubine (Nie Huaisang was in this position before their father died and NMJ became Sect Leader, leaving him as heir). For the sake of controlling as many variables as possible assume that his cultivation is the same as canon--if he were raised in a Sect and able to begin cultivating earlier he might have been a stronger cultivator, but there's no way to guess by how much.

As far as I know there are no official ranks given for Nie Huaisang, Wen Chao, Wen Xu or Wen Ning. They definitely count, and based on status Wen Xu is probably a decent guess for Mystery Bachelor #6, but who knows!

[benevolenterrancy]

okay, since I've finished the books, I've been watching bits and pieces of the show. among the many wild changes it includes, my favourite so far is definitely Nie Huaisang smuggling an entire ass bird into the Gusu lectures in his sleeve, what a legend

also the fact that Meng Yao is directly behind him for all of this and is, presumably, having a conniption...

[kjwaikiki]

Protective Jiang Yanli Headcanon:

I have this idea in my head where Jiang Yanli is a bit more protective and political than in canon.

In my head when Wei Wuxian comes to Lotus Pier Jiang Yanli latches on to him just as he seems to latch on to her. Here is someone who needs her, who to a certain degree relies on her. In many ways Jiang Yanli sees Wei Wuxian as her child because she is the one that raises him.

The political side comes in regarding her engagement to Jin Zixuan. Wei Wuxian isn’t treated well by Yu Ziyuan and Yanli knows that her father won’t step in to stop Yu Ziyuan from hurting Wei Wuxian. So Yanli comes up with a plan. Yanli plans to take Wei Wuxian with her to Koi Tower.

Of course this brings its own set of difficulties. She will have to convince her father to let Wei Wuxian go, the toxic environment of Koi Tower, and the fact that Jin Zixuan resents their engagement.

Jiang Yanli schemes. The easiest to overcome is Zixuan’s dislike, she just needs to make him see her as a victim or ally rather than an enemy. This idea leads to her ultimate plan.

Yanli is going to poison herself while she is at Koi Tower. She is going to lay the blame on either one of the female Jin disciples who acted out of jealousy or one of Jin Guangshan’s cronies with the excuse that they think closer ties with Yunmeng Jiang will cause a decrease in their power (or something similar). The point is that she needs there to be an initial panic, investigation, and ultimately while someone will be caught Yanli needs there to be doubt in her parents’ minds as to whether Koi Tower is safe for her.

At this point Yanli will request that Wei Wuxian comes to Koi Tower and acts as her bodyguard. She knows that with the recent poisoning attempt her father will be weak to her request and more likely to grant it. It will be even more effective if she can get Jin Zixuan to request that Wei Wuxian come to Koi Tower to look after her because her parents can’t deny a sect heir easily.

Jin Zixuan will make the request because after Yanli poisons herself and her fiancé comes to see her she will tearfully request that he bring one of her brothers to Koi Tower. She will say she is afraid and that she misses her brothers. She will act weak and pitiful to soften Jin Zixuan’s heart to her. Jin Zixuan will see how Yanli was poisoned by someone of his sect and see her as a victim. He will pity her and thus accept her request and bring it up to her parents.

Of course Jiang Cheng cannot come to Koi Tower he is the sect heir and must stay in Yunmeng Jiang where it is safe. Wei Wuxian however is much more free to come to Koi Tower and look after his Shijie.

Jiang Yanli is happy. Months of planning, carefully building up an immunity to poison, and gathering the necessary ingredients have all payed off. As for the toxic cloud hanging over Koi Tower, there was already one poisoning attempt who is to say that there won’t be a second and that Jin Guangshan is the unfortunate victim this time. Of course with Jin Guangshan dead and Jin Zixuan the new sect leader Wei Wuxian will need to stay at Koi Tower indefinitely to protect Jiang Yanli.

I’m not sure how this ends. Maybe with Jin Ling’s birth or maybe with Wei Wuxian marrying Lan Wangji. I don’t know how much Jiang Cheng or Wei Wuxian know about Jiang Yanli’s plan. I am aware that Jiang Yanli can be considered OC. In the end this is just an idea that I had and wanted to share. I hope you like it!

[thatswhatsushesaid]

i think fandom spaces would become much more enjoyable across the board if people stopped flipping their pancakes over other fans enjoying characters that they don't like. or, god forbid, like them but in 'the wrong way.'

[acequinz]

I will not have Lan Xichen slander.

He is actually very smart and a great sect leader.

The only mistake he did was not being able to see past Jin Guangyao's kindness towards him and even that isn't his fault because JGY really was that bitch who rose from nothing and had the whole cultivation world in his hand.

Heck he would have continued to have it in his hand if it wasn't for NHS who succeeded in bringing wwx back.

Like thinking Lan Xichen of all people was stupid to not see his real face is both an insult to him and JGY.

Also you people forget that JGY has done a lot of good things as well. He isn't just a bad person, he's a person who is willing to do bad things to keep his power because he will not allow himself to be powerless again.

And when you look at the big picture it makes complete sense Lan Xichen would trust JGY over NMJ.

Lan Xichen has his own strict morals but he also sees the world in all of it's colours and that just shows in him cultivating a technique to be able to drink without getting drunk.

It's not just a fun little thing but shows his own code and how he looks at life.

When we meet him first, we see he is way more forgiving of Wei Wuxian and his antics than any Lan and even encourages Lan Wangji to give it a chance and be friends.

And this point Lan Wangji is just as bad as Qiren when it comes to upholding rules, (not bad as in bad person) and Lan Xichen pushes him towards Wei Wuxian because he clearly is not someone who follows rules blindly and it does help Lan Wangji.

Wei Wuxian is the reason Lan Wangji actually thinks of the rules and considers them, forming his own opinions on them and during all of this Lan Xichen is open and accepting of questions and patience. Because he trusts Wangji will come to the right path eventually and this time it wouldn't be him following rules blindly but they would guide him to the path he wants to take.

And then the war happens and Lan Xichen is forced to abandon his family to protect his sect and he does so.

In his lowest moment he meets JGY and is a witness to his kindness and support and at this moment Lan Xichen could give him nothing and maybe jgy tells him the truth about the general or maybe half a truth, either way, he hears his side too.

And then JGY takes on a very dangerous mission to play spy on WRH and they win mainly because JGY took these steps whole endangering himself, when it could have been so easy for him to betray others.

Also during this time him and NMJ have not been talking about JGY.

And by the time NMJ starts talking about JGY, JGY has done more rights than wrongs in Lan Xichen's book, you can't judge a person by just one action afterall, you need to consider the possibilities. Also his raging screaming and yelling black and white morals is not something that can shake Lan Xichen when he is analysing that at this point JGY is on their side and has been from the start.

Like even the reason for the proposed brotherhood was a political move and not just him wanting for his friends to get along. (When I remove my 3zun goggles*cough*) Because the high friction between Nie Mingjue and Jin clan could have very well started another war because let's remember - NMJ was highly unstable and could easily be triggered into it unless he was held back by something like a sworn brother pact- the sworn brothers pact would bring the largest three clans remaining to be tied together and unable to start another war that would cause even more harm.

Because Lan Xichen's first and foremost priorities are to avoid another war or discord that could cause casualties. He is out there taking disrespect from the kinds of Jin Zixun biting his tongue about Su She to maintain the peace in the cultivation world.

And in defense JGY does try to fix things with NMJ at the start(until nmj insulted his mom which is the trigger for him to have done almost all the on screen kills except maybe wrh) , he is indeed, kind and respectful and he did a lot for Gusu sect, all of that has got to add up.

JGY plays a dirty political game but he also did a lot of good for the cultivation world.

With the side that JGY maintains in front of LXC it's way more surprising that LXC even gave LWJ and WWX a chance to present their case.

But that was also only because Lan Xichen will always love and trust his brother, even if according to him the brother is once again back with his "toxic" situationship that almost killed him 13/16 years ago.

This is the one of the few time he chooses his brother over his sect leader duties.

Because if he was to follow the path as the sect leader the evidence presented until then compared to the words just words and no physical evidence shared by Lwj and WWX it's clear which choice he should have made.

Even in the end when we know that it is a fact that JGY has in fact never harmed or even tried to harm LXC, he still takes a stand against him. Is willing to die beside him for the one mistake he made of trusting JGY and it wasn't a blind trust, it was trust built up over months, years during and after the war.

Anyways, Lan Xichen my beloved you are doing good, great even come out of seclusion 🥺.

[whimsicallywiddershins]

Jin Guangyao during the entire series: "I murdered my way into this mess, I will murder my way out of it."

[incorrectly-quoting-mxtx]

Wei Wuxian: What’s up guys? I’m back!

The Jins: What the-you can’t be here. You’re dead. We literally saw you die!

Wei Wuxian: Death is a social construct.

[withthewindinherfootsteps]

So we know that Wei Wuxian's treatment after his death was horrible. Even if nothing could impact him directly, there was still neverending slander, hatred, misinformation, theft...

But, for a while after he died, the sects did try to impact him directly – namely, frequently trying to resummon his soul. And today I'll explore the possible reasons for this, their likelihoods, and why I'm so, so thankful that Wei Wuxian's soul managed to resist the summons. Because, spoiler alert (or, you know. maybe not)... none of them are good.

(Long meta ahead)

In my opinion, there are four likely motivations for this: confinement, coercion, torment, and potentially destruction.

Out of all of these, confinement is probably the most likely motivation, at least for most sects (Jins and Jiangs excluded, though it was likely what the Jin sect said their motivations were – but I'll get to them later). This one is the most simple – we know spirit-trapping pouches exist, and we know the sects also placed 120 stone beasts on the Burial Mounds to prevent Wei Wuxian's soul from escaping. Therefore, this seems to be the most likely motivation – and fortunately for Wei Wuxian, probably also the best case scenario, though it still certainly isn't a good one.

For the second, coercion – this is where the Jin sect come in (more specifically Jin Guangshan with the help of Jin Guangyao). Due to their wealth and resources, they're likely the sect who played the largest role in the soul-summoning rituals. We know what they're willing to do to try to gain power – keeping Wen Ning under the pretence he was burned to death and trying to control him with the nails, and working with and helping Xue Yang torture people to help him refine his demonic cultivation, in order to have the Yin hufu fixed. Along with working with many other cultivators, alongside Xue Yang – Jin Guangshan really, really wanted that seal.

And so, Jin GuangShan sought after all those who imitated Wei WuXian in cultivating the ghostly path and gathered them under his rule. He spent a great amount of money and resources and these people, ordering them to study and analyze the structure of the Tiger Seal in secrecy so that they could replicate and restore it. - Villainous Friends extra, EXR

(Note that working with these cultivators very likely happened after Wei Wuxian's soul had failed to be summoned, since this happens some time after Wei Wuxian's death, whereas the soul-summoning ceromonies presumably started happening very close to it.)

In the previous paragraph, he's also quoted as having 'lusted after' the Yin hufu, which we already knew but it's nice to have a direct quote as evidence.

Now, would Wei WuXian willingly work with the Jin sect in doing this? No. We know that, and, given Wei Wuxian's actions in his first life (refusing to hand over the Tally, not being afraid to stand up to the sects, etc), I’m pretty sure Jin Guangshan knows that, too:

He beat around the bush a couple of times, using all his skills, yet Wei WuXian didn’t give in no matter what, and it made him run into a bunch of obstacles. - Villainous Friends extra, EXR

So this could actually make things go two ways. One, I'm wrong and that wasn't actually part of the Jin sect's motivations, since they know they wouldn't be able to control him (and in that case, had they managed to summon him, I could imagine them putting him in a spirit-trapping pouch and doing something similar to what Jin Guangyao did to Nie Mingjue's head. Which, also, not good). Two, it was a part of their motivations, and they hoped to find a way around that. After all, there are other guidao users out there now, and Wei Wuxian would now be a gui*. Also, cultivators can obviously harm ghosts – see the very existence of Night Hunts, and I'd include Xue Yang's talisman-caused destruction of A-Qing as well (while he isn't a traditional cultivator, talismans can be used by everyone).

Now, would either of these methods actually work? I'm inclined to think not really (and I expand on the former method in a note below). Would that stop Jin Guangshan/Jin Guangyao/the cultivators they employ from trying? Especially considering Jin Guangshan's lust for power?

I'm inclined to think no, too.

For the third, look no further than Jiang Cheng's reputation of capturing and torturing demonic cultivators after Wei Wuxian's death, due to thinking they could be him. And this does happen – Jin Ling knows and talks about it, and there's not real motivation for him to negatively lie about someone he loves. Also, when they come across each other at Dafan Mountain, we're told this in Jiang Cheng's inner voice:

A moment ago, Jiang Cheng was certain that this person was Wei WuXian, and all of the blood in his body started to boil. Yet, now, Zidian was clearly telling him that he wasn’t. Zidian definitely wouldn’t deceive him or make a mistake, so he quickly calmed himself and thought, this doesn’t mean anything. I should first find an excuse to take him back and use every possible method to get information out of him. It’s impossible for him to not confess anything or give himself away. I’ve done things like this in the past anyways. - MDZS Chapter 10, EXR translation

This mainly shows that he's tortured people before, rather than that he's tortured people because he thinks they're Wei Wuxian, but this reason is confirmed by Jin Ling in Chapter 24. Of course, the reason is also mentioned in this chapter, and there are other moments in the chapter that illustrate my point better**, but they come from second-hand sources which I know are easier to deny. Do take note of Jiang Cheng's expression both times he comes across 'Mo Xuanyu' (after he suspects he's Wei Wuxian) in Book One***, though:

After a moment, the corners of Jiang Cheng’s lips pulled into a twisted smile. His left hand started to unconsciously stroke the ring [Zidian] again. He spoke softly, “… Well, well. So you’re back?” - Chapter 10, EXR Although his face had always been clouded, marked with arrogance and satire, it seemed as if every corner of it had come alive. It was difficult to determine whether it was vengeful wrath, fathomless hatred, or raving ecstasy. - Chapter 23, EXR

This does seem to line up with what people say his attitude to Wei Wuxian is – there doesn't seem to be any happiness at seeing him again at all. The only time a word that could suggest that ('ecstasy') is used, it's accompanied by 'raving', and considering the context and the other possibilities of his expression, it's... probably not due to happiness at being reunited.

So, considering 1) this, 2) his contribution to the Siege specifically intended to kill Wei Wuxian, and 3) that at the time of frequent soul-summoning Jiang Yanli's death would be even closer for him, I feel pretty confident in saying that yes, this is likely a motivation for the Jiang sect in trying to re-summon Wei Wuxian's soul after his death. And, as mentioned earlier, cultivators can harm ghosts (and we know Zidian is able to remove souls posessing a body from that body, and that Jiang Cheng used Zidian on 'Mo Xuanyu' in Chapter 10. If it wasn't able to restrain/harm ghosts, or other methods weren't able to, why would he risk Wei Wuxian's soul escaping?).

And finally, option four: destruction. We're heading into much more speculative territory here, so don't consider this on par with the first three. But consider this:

We know there are some spells, like Xue Yang's talisman used on A-Qing and the body-offering ritual, that can ruin the returning soul’s reincarnation cycle by destroying it. Therefore, soul destruction is possible.

The 'main'/supposed reason for summoning Wei Wuxian's soul back is to stop the "cultivation world, or even all of mortal land" from being "faced with the most insane damnation and revenge, sinking into nothing but chaos and despair" when Wei Wuxian inevitably returns. While, as mentioned above, I severely doubt this is the motivation for certain sects – and to me is likely a rumour which the Jins (again, especially Jin Guangsha) fanned the flames of to justify summoning Wei Wuxian back for their own purposes**** – there are other sects which would take it more seriously.

Although likely disrespectful, people already thought it served Wei Wuxian right to die without his body intact by the time of the second siege – something believed to negatively affect your reincarnation in your next life*****. This is only the logical next step, and I'm pretty sure the vast majority of people would believe that, again, it would serve Wei Wuxian right, or would at least lead to less harm of the world in the long run.

For these reasons, I could definitely see this as an option for some sects, especially the sects who consider themselves more 'righteous' (cough cough the Nies under Nie Mingjue cough cough). After all, evil is evil and good is good, and the evil deserve what's coming to them. And what better way to prevent that than from preventing his soul from returning at all? So for the Nie sect – and likely some of the smaller sects involved in the Siege, since among them, additudes probably vary – yes, I do think it could be a motivation.

I’m not as sure about the Lans being willing to go this far, and that’s largely for two reasons. One, Lan Wangji’s presence and his relationship to Lan Xichen, who does (not always, but he does) let this affect how he treats Wei Wuxian. An example of this is that, when Wei Wuxian's return is made public, Lan Xichen does let him hide and shelter at the Cloud Recesses instead of trying to pursue him, likely majorly due to Lan Wangji. I'd argue that the aftermath of the Nightless City also acts as an example of this, although it definitely isn't perfect. But though he, Lan Qiren and the 33 elders do come to find Lan Wangji and do not let him continue to shelter Wei Wuxian (after they see Lan Wangji's feelings), Lan Xichen doesn't use this opportunity to kill/capture Wei Wuxian, despite Lan Wangji being in a worse condition due to having fought 33 elders, Wei Wuxian being catatonic, and Lan Qiren likely supporting this outcome (especially considering he was the one who led the Lan sect in the Siege – chapter 68, Wei Wuxian's POV). And he did let Lan Wangji take Wei Wuxian back to the Burial Mounds after:

After he went out of his way to send you back to Burial Mound and returned in such low spirits to receive his punishment, how long he kneeled before the Wall of Rules! - Chapter 99, EXR

Again, this was right after the Nightless City massacre – there isn't any goodwill towards Wei Wuxian at this point in time.

Of course, the Lan sect did participate in the siege after Lan Xichen knew of Lan Wangji's feelings towards Wei Wuxian, which Lan Xichen was no doubt a part of (although Lan Qiren lead the Lan sect in the siege, Lan XIchen had to have at least known/given his support, if not participated.) And it should be considered that Lan Xichen letting Wei Wuxian shelter at the Cloud Recesses was after Wei Wuxian had been back for a while, and had not caused the downfall of the Cultivation World, like many suspected he would after his death. And of course, as stated previously, his handling of the aftermath of Nightless City wasn't perfect either (though please note that his main motive here was to protect Lan Wangji from being potentially executed, rather than anything about Wei Wuxian himself). So caring about Lan Wangji doesn't mean he won't harm Wei Wuxian. But I do think he could find bringing Wei Wuxian's soul back to completely destroy it a bit excessive. There is, though, the chance that the elders of the Lan Sect would react to this differently, and of course they would have a sway on both Lan Xichen and the Lan sect as well.

The second reason is smaller, but there seems to be more focus in the Lan sect than in others when it comes to letting ghosts rest peacefully/helping them move on. And that could definitely lead to more resistance to the idea of summoning a soul back to destroy it as well, which could especially impact the elders. So I'd assume that the Lan sect would be the most likely sect to summon Wei Wuxian's soul back just for confinement, or just for some way of making sure any resentment is disippated, his spirit moves on, and he can't cause more harm to the world (eg via Inquiry)******. Not that he would or does as a ghost or as a reborn person, but that's unfortunately not relevant to this.

But yes, as a motivation for the Nie Mingjue-led Nie sect? Absolutely.

So, these are the main motives I suspect to be behind the attempted summoning of Wei Wuxian's soul after his death (and if I've missed any, please let me know – I'd love to have a discussion). And, of course, none of them lead to anywhere good. Because of course it wasn’t enough to besiege Wei Wuxian, murder the 50 non-combatants he was responsible for (and throwing them into the blood pit as a mark of disrespect because why not?), and lead to his death via him getting torn apart. It wasn’t enough to steal all his inventions, and use them commonly while still slandering him with no reprieve – or to steal his notes and give them to people like Xue Yang to study (Villainous Friends, again) and to use for their own, extremely extremely harmful, purposes. Of course, the cultivation world has to try to harm Wei Wuxian after death as well ((:

We don't know whether Wei Wuxian rejecting the summoning ceremonies was conscious or unconscious, but if it was the former, these are very likely reasons he refused to return in this way. If it was unconscious – for example, maybe during the frequent soul-summons his soul was in a weakened state due to him dying from a backlash of resentful energy and getting torn apart, and it healed over time but not before the soul-summoning rituals stopped – well, I can only be thankful.

Finally, let me leave you on the thought that – although it may well have happened since we don't spend much time in the immediate aftermath of the Sunshot campaign – there isn't even any textual mention of this happening to Wen Ruohan. Who, while not being a guidao user, was still very dangerous, still an extremely powerful cultivator, and still had a lot of reason to feel resentment. So.

:')

Thank you for reading!

--

*Considering what we see of how Wei Wuxian's guidao functions – redirecting the ghosts'/corpses' resentment into doing something they'd want to do, eg attacking people, and directing it towards a target – I'm not sure using it to force a spirit to do something 1) extremely specific, and 2) explicitly against their will would actually work. Iirc the closest thing we get to this in text is Wei Wuxian using the corpses of Wens to attack other Wens in the Sunshot Campaign, but he's still just directing their resentment to a target of his choice, and fierce corpses do tend to be on the less concious side of things (hence why Wei Wuxian had to awaken Wen Ning's consciousness). Considering how Wen Ning attacks Wei Wuxian and the Burial Mound Wens before his consciousness had fully awoken, I... really don't think those fierce corpses were able to differentiate (or didn't care).

Meanwhile, ghosts seem to be a bit more in control of themselves – see A-Qing, and Wei Wuxian's own descriptions of his ghost self.

That, alongside ghost!Wei Wuxian being able to resist his soul-summoning and the fact that pretty much all of the new guidao users are a lot weaker than he was, does make me think that this this wouldn't work. I do wonder about Xue Yang, since his methods are pretty different as well, but he's more of a modao user than a guidao user (he controls living corpses rather than dead people) and I don't think you can insert physical nails into ghosts?? Though if he was specifically instructed to figure out some way to control ghost!Wei Wuxian (who's probably kept in a spirit-trapping pouch in this scenario), he might be able to do something at least. Though also he was also struggling to piece Xiao Xingchen's ghost soul back together, so he may struggle with those areas?

Well, whatever the potential outcome, I'm so so happy once again that Wei Wuxian's soul managed to resist the soul-summonings...

**Mainly this:

Everyone in the cultivation world knew that the young leader of the Jiang Clan watched out for Wei WuXian in an almost crazed manner. He would rather catch the wrong person than let go of any possibility, and took anyone who seemed like they held the soul of Wei WuXian away to the YunmengJiang Sect, inflicting severe torture on his victim. If he wanted to take someone back, the opposition would surely lose half of their life. - Chapter 10, EXR

But I have heard people say 'you can't prove that it's just more rumours' before, and I wanted my evidence to be as watertight as possible.

(And, off-topic... isn't it really sad how Jiang Cheng, in the present day, is described as young? Because, for a clan leader, he is. And another thing he is, is close in age to Wei Wuxian – who was killed 13 whole years prior :') )

***And do note that the only other time they run into each other before Wei Wuxian's identity is revealed to the world apart from this is their brief interaction at Jinlintai, where he can't just act however he wants. The next time they run into each other after it, Jiang Cheng is literally taking part in another siege against him, and still extremely hostile ("surrounded by hostile energy, face insidious, staring straight at him" – from EXR chapter 60). Then he loses his spiritual powers and can't do anything. By the time he regains his powers, Wei Wuxian, Lan Wangji and the Wen remnants' corpses have saved everyone during the Second Siege, and though public opinion hasn't properly shifted quite yet, it will soon after Sisi and Bicao tell the story of Jin Guangyao, and voila, a new scapegoat (do note that he doesn't completely bar Wei Wuxian from entering Lotus Pier after the Second Siege, though). Plus, throughout it all, Lan Wangji is still constantly present, which makes it hard for Jiang Cheng to really do anything. And then he's finally faced with the Golden Core reveal, which does alter his motivations towards Wei Wuxian (obviously the resentment is still there – read chapter 102 – but it's also mixed with other complex emotions, and he seems to start being able to move away from that a little in Chapter 103). I still definitely wouldn't describe Jiang Cheng's attitude towards him as positive, but it isn't at the point it was at the start of the novel (eg Chapter 10).

But even if his attitude does change, or would for whatever other reason apart from the reveal, that still doesn't change an initial motivation so isn't relevant to this meta. We know his intentions at the start.

****It's also possible they may have originated it, but I think WWX's reputation was bad enough for it to form naturally. Though you can trace a major part of that back to them, too.

*****That belief isn't outright stated in MDZS, but the fact people are specifically talking about the status of WWX's body in the aftermath of his death suggests that this belief does have some grounding in the MDZS universe, at least? And we know MXTX has included it in TGCF (though that doesn't mean it's definitely in MDZS), so she has used it in her works. If this isn't the case in the MDZS universe I am sorry (although that could also mean there's less importance placed on not disturbing the reincarnation cycle in the world of MDZS...? Which would work towards my original argument) – I don't want to spread misinformation that something is definitely true, I just think there's evidence to suggest it is true, which isn't the same thing.

******Again, I think this would depend on who ends up having more influence over who in the Lan sect. After all, normal resentful spirits only do what they do because of their resentment in death, whereas Wei Wuxian is 'dangerous' because of who everyone thinks he was in life – so him being reborn naturally could also 'cause a lot of harm to the world' during the time period this version of him would live in, unlike the resentful ghosts they appease. This could definitely lead to many advocating for confinement, I think.

[carrot-felisidad]

If you think about it, Nie Huaisang's plans aren't as meticulous as Jin Guangyao's. His plans could be stopped immediately by unforeseen forces with enough bad luck, like what if Mo Xuanyu was not banished and instead killed? What if the ritual did not work? What if JGY denied his cryings in the Koi tower, disabling the messenger to deliver the letter to Qin Su? What if Qin Su wasn't that repelled from the fact that they're siblings? What if Qin Su did not believe the truth about their son's death? What if Si si refused to drop the bombs? What if the Sect leaders refused to believe the two random and unknown women? WHAT IF WEI WUXIAN DID NOT PLAY "WANGXIAN" IN THE DAFAN MOUNTAIN?

So many plans were released to the wind with a little prayer "I hope this works!", and you know what? They did! Because Nie Huaisang isn't actually an evil calculating meticulous mastermind who has plans from A to Z. That's Jin Guangyao. NHS is an artist, a theatre kid, and a grieving little brother.

He was also sided by the gods. (And the author)

[lgbtlunaverse]

A slightly unhinged case for jin guangyao knowing about the core transfer while WWX was still alive

Ok. SO. In chapter 101, during guangyin temple, Jin Guangyao clearly knows about the golden core transfer. He uses it to bring Jiang Cheng off-kilter and stab him and simultaneously reveals to wwx that jc himself now knows about the golden core transfer.

I've always wondered exactly when he figured it out. The most obvious explanation is that he pieced it together after hearing about Jiang Cheng asking everyone to unsheathe suibian (also? jgy? how the fuck do you know that? You were already going to/at Guanyin temple at this point! Did you just have people listen in on rumours from Yunmeng and report back to you for that?? Did you tell your spy network where you were going? My whole kingdom for a retelling of this arc from the pov of these random jin disciples seeing their sect leader start spiralling. He's diggin up random tombs? Fleeing the country? And threatening the heir's life?? What was random Jin cultivator #6 thinking of this before Nie Mingjue turned him into minced meat?)

BUT.

The first time I read that line I was like "oh so he's known for a WHILE." I mean, the line "I've always found it peculiar [that wwx never took his sword anywhere]" does indicate he's been thinking about this for a while, but it doesn't have to mean he knew back then. So I absolutely can't say with certainty that my instinct was right. But I DO have some decent canon backing for how he might have potentially figured things out as early as before Wei Wuxian's death. Specifically, after the discussion scene that takens place when wei wuxian does his thing with the wens and dissapears.

Cause, see, Wen Chao would definitely have bragged about Wen Zhuliu crushing Jiang Cheng's core to his father. He killed the current sect leader, and then permanently disabled the only heir. He did it! the Jiang are gone! I bet he was very loud about it until, a few weeks later, Jiang Cheng suddenly strolls up to the battlefield, with Zidian on his finger, cultivation very much intact, looking for Wei Wuxian.

That must've been fucking baffling if you were Wen Chao and/or Wen Zhuliu and/or any other cultivator who was there and definitely saw Jiang Cheng's core get crushed. They must have assumed something went wrong, or he faked having his core destroyed, but we've never heard of something like that happening before, and they tortured him for hours! It wasn't a quick batle where Wen Zhuliu must have missed in haste, he would've noticed!

Now, by the time Meng yao arrives, wen zhuliu and wen chao are both long dead, but that kind of thing would at least still be a source of gossip among the other Wen. The only time the core melting hand ever failed!

It might be something that, say... a very careful spy with a perfect memory looking for information... might pick up on in his stay with the Wen, no?

So, Meng Yao has heard the rumour that sect leader Jiang got his core crushed but somehow managed to... still have a core.

Independantly of his, Wei Wuxian is being really weird and refusing to carry his sword. His primary concern there is wwx stirring shit up, he has no reason to believe these things are connected yet.

But then Wei Wuxian runs off with a bunch of Wen, and before he is cut off, Jiang Cheng tells everyone that after the siege on lotus pier, he and wei wuxian were helped by Wen Qing and Wen Ning! Jiang Cheng doesn't get to say how, which is good for jgy in this moment because he's trying to steer the conversation as such that no one gets mad at the Jin sect for all the war crimes, but even if his goal is for everyone else to forget Jiang Cheng said that, he'd remember it.

So... after the moment where jiang cheng, according to rumours that were contained to the wen, lost his core, he was helped by wen ning and wen qing, who is a really good doctor. And, in canon, had written theoretical proposals on core transfers before, just never experimented on them. Were these available for others among the Wen to read? Did jgy read them? We have no way of knowing. But if he did, he remembers them. Either way, he knows her reputation.

And Wei Wuxian disappeared right round that same moment, only to resurface with his demonic cultivation, at which point he never touched his sword again. Not even in the middle of a dangerous war. Not even when he was public enemy number one and it would do wonders for his reputation if he was seen cultivating the traditional path. When doing so would have made not just him but the 50 people he was shielding safer! if Jin guangyao was somehow in his position, he'd immediately do everything he could to counteract the narrative of beign a dangerous madman who'd left the straight path. Wei Wuxian has been in absolutely desperate situations and still refuses to pick up his sword...

The saying doesn't exist yet, but i'm sure someone like jgy, more competent than everyone around him, is intimately familair with at least the sentiment of "never ascribe to malice what is adequately explained by incompetence" He is helping spread the narrative of Wei Wuxian as a violent madman, sure, but does he believe it? If it makes no sense for wei wuxian, no longer a privileged young master but an outcast, to not pick up his sword again out of arrogancy, the most reliable explanation is that he... can't.

So Jiang Cheng, who got his core melted, got help from Wen Qing, an incredible doctor, after which he coud cultivate just fine but Wei Wuxian, no matter how desperate, never used traditional cultivation ever again...

Hm. interesting!

It's likely no one else in the jianghu outside of the wen even knew Jiang Cheng lost his core to begin with. And Jin Guangyao was never given wwx's excuse of Baoshan Sanren owing him a favor like Jiang Cheng was. He has all the puzzle pieces in front of him and... if anyone as gonna put them together, it'd be him.

And that's my unhinged case for why I believe Jin Guangyao knew Wei Wuxian didn't have a golden core anymore years before anyone else did. He just never told anyone, because why would he?

I think this adds a whole other level to his speech to Jiang Cheng about how everything could've worked out if he'd just trusted Wei Wuxian more and stood by his side. He saw it all play out in real time knowing there was more going on beneath the surface!

Now the really interesting question becomes: When did he figure out Jiang Cheng himself wasn't in on it? Did he piece it together immediately from remembering seeing jiang cheng berate wwx for not carrying a sword, a thing he should've known he couldn't do? Or was it not until later, maybe the fake yunmeng bros fallout, or the REAL fallout when Jiang Yanli died? Or was it still the news of Jiang Cheng going around and asking everyone to unsheathe subian that made him realize that oh my god this stupid bitch had no idea the whole time.