Hi! Long time no yap but I've been really bothered by this thing and I know you're just the person I can go to with this (even if we don't always end up agreeing at times).
I got into a tiff with someone in a comments section of a post that was about Amy (Which character do you think deserved to become a villain? or something similar). They brought up Amy's abuse of her boyfriend. I may have tried to defend Amy (key word is tried. I am officially rubbish at debating) but then I may have said something? Because they said that I (and apparently a lot of other fans) was excusing Amy's abuse because of her trauma. It got me stumped because isn't young Amy's treatment of Rory rooted in her trauma? Did I miss the memo where we separate trauma and abuse? Am I missing something?
That statement bothered me a lot because if there's one thing I never want to do it's defend an abuser. So here I am, humbly asking and hoping to clear the muddy waters.
Your really confused and disturbed moot, Tia 💌
TIA!!!!! Thanks for the ask 💌 , and I send you all the hugs.
Discussion of abuse, trauma, ableism, infidelity, and unhealthy relationship dynamics beneath the cut.
(First off… while I really appreciate your faith in my explaining skills <3 <3 <3 my passion for traumatized characters and mentally ill+neurodivergent rights doesn't make me especially qualified to fully clear muddy waters especially not knowing the full context, but I feel you, and what follows is my informed perspective!)
Speaking generally first, harm done in media is best examined by the impact on the audience, with a different lens than harm done to real people. While relatable experiences in media can be useful and validating and incredibly important, you can’t be “defending an abuser” when the abuse is fictional. It's actually normal for traumatized/ND/mentally ill people to project onto mentally ill villains, when villains are the only significant representation for those stigmatized symptoms in a media landscape that excludes and demonizes us simply for existing. RTD can't stop people who hallucinate from reclaiming the Master's Drums and projecting onto the Master, for example — 90% of the best Doctor Who psychosis fic by psychotic authors is about the Master, whether RTD likes it or not. It's not true crime.
(This is speaking generally. Amy Pond is very much not the Master.)
Abuse is a behavior, and there can be many reasons for it, but reasons based in trauma don’t make it not abuse (some forms of generational trauma can propagate abusive parenting styles, when the parent thinks abusive parenting is normal, or lives entirely vicariously through their child). This absolutely should not be taken to mean trauma correlates with abusive behavior; rather that abusive behaviors from traumatized people are more likely to present in specific ways.
Abuse is also a targeted behavior, based in control — not consistently displayed C-PTSD symptoms as seen in Season 5 Amy Pond through many aspects of her life. Mental health symptoms don't become abuse just because they hinder one partner from meeting the other partner's needs. Any life event can do that.
Without knowing the context of the arguments, this is the aspect of their relationship I've seen you talk about before (which I also feel strongly about), and what I assume is what you were debating? So, here I will talk specifically in regard to Season 5.
We all know Amy — she's never attached to Leadworth because she never wanted to leave Scotland, no steady therapist because none of them stick up for her, can't stick with one job yet her first choice is a job that simulates intimacy because her avoidant behavior (a known trauma response) isn't sustainable to her wellbeing. Rory knows her fears of commitment stem from her repeated abandonments, it’s why he’ll always wait for her, and it's why he blames the Doctor “You make it so they don't want to let you down.”, who apart from having caused a lot of her trauma, has actively taken advantage of her being the “Scottish girl in the English village” who's “still got that accent,” because he wants to feel important, so yeah, I think interpreting Amy's issues (and how Amy and Rory transverse them) as Amy abusing Rory indicates a fundamental misunderstanding of their relationship, as well as a misunderstanding of the (raggedy) Doctor’s role in Amy’s formative self-image (which of course she works through in Season 6, but I am sticking to Season 5).
Abuse is always based in control. That just doesn’t fit here. While Amy's detachment from her real life includes things like calling Rory her “kind of boyfriend” (which she is upfront about to his face; differing commitment levels isn't abuse, though it can be a relationship red flag for both parties IRL) — her Season 5 disregard of Rory’s feelings occurs only in response to the fairytale embodiment of her trauma. It's never a response to Rory; it's a response to the Doctor, who stole her childhood and led her by the hand to her death. She cheats on Rory with the Doctor in her bedroom full of Doctor toys, drawings, models, she made from childhood to early adulthood.
(And yes, like many repeatedly-traumatized people, Amy is prone to being sensitive and reactive. Take her “Well, shut up then!” line in The Big Bang; but given Rory responds to this by hugging her, clearly he doesn’t take it as her actually dismissing him. He knows her better than that.)
And by no means do I meant to imply this is fair to young Rory, poor Rory, who's left struggling with the feeling that his role in her life is in competition with the role of her trauma (aka the Doctor). But not every unhealthy relationship dynamic is unhealthy because of abuse. Labelling Amy's treatment of Rory in Season 5 more accurately isn't the same as excusing her harmful choices — but making mistakes is part of being human, Amy's mistakes are certainly understandable, and she works through them out of love for Rory.
If there's one thing to say about Moffat women, it's that Moffat allows his female characters the same grace that the male characters *coughTENcough* have always had, to hurt and struggle and make realistic mistakes and overcome those mistakes and to heal without being demonized.
Amy isn't perfect, but she is a fully realized character, and her story gives us a resonant depiction of childhood trauma.
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Gwen Rant Below
‘Did Gwen hook up with Hobie’ that ‘ was she leading miles on’ this. THE GIRL WAS HOMELESS. OMG what. She literally says to Miles ‘oh yea Hobie let’s me crash in his dimension sometimes’ BECAUSE SHES HOMELESS. And when she got defensive during the collider fight scene about her toothbrush and stuff being at Hobie’s, it wasn’t because she was trying to hide a relationship, she’s hiding the fact that she’s no longer living with her dad from Miles.
Miles still DOES NOT KNOW her situation. Because she chose not to tell him. It’s also why she told him not to tell his parents he’s Spider-Man. Because like Miles’ dad, her dad is a cop and when her dad found out he held up a gun at her. Like it’s fine if you ship something, I don’t care, but understand she was most likely staying at Hobie’s because Hobie knows what it is like to not have a home. Of course he’s going to take her in. That means in no way she is SLEEPING WITH HIM.
A lot of people are getting so hung up on the love triangle/love rivalry thing, that wasn’t really anything concrete in the movie, that they are missing key parts of their relationships. Because largely, like the Miles catching Gwen poster, the love triangle was played up for advertisements. The only one that really keeps it going in movie is Pav(who watches too many Bollywood romances(I love him tho)) and Miles’ very short little stint of jealousy that quickly died.
If anyone has been homeless as a teen or had a friend who was homeless as a teen you know your friends come together to support that person, or at least they should(every situations different). Even if it’s just making sure the person has food or a couch to sleep on for a couple of days, rotating between friends and working together to do adult things as teenagers. Maybe this just hits too close to home for me, cause I really do see myself and especially some of my friends in Gwen and her story.
There are a lot of reasons to be homeless as a teen. I mean most queer kids at one point or another have had to at least think about the possibility of getting kicked out if your parents found out. And something makes me really upset at the fact that we have this homeless queer coded teenager, staying with a friend, leaving their stuff at the friends’ place, and borrowing their clothes. Then a bunch of people immediately assume they’re sleeping together. Please understand why I am getting so upset about this.
Hobie has canonically been homeless as a teenager. He would understand how vulnerable Gwen is right now, of course he would take her in and of course he wouldn’t sleep with her and take advantage of her while she was actively relying on him for a place to live. He quite literally stuck around in the spider society FOR HER, cause he knows she’s being taken advantage of by Jessica and Miguel. Like ship what you ship I don’t care, but please have some awareness when talking about Gwen’s story.
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A dumb lil headcanon I have is that Yamato was assigned Naruto’s legal guardian in shippuden. (And that before it was Hiruizen, then Kakashi, then Jiraiya) just for convenience because he’s watching over Naruto all the time anyways.
oh god. sorry my response got really long but the fact is anyone even breathes a word of yamato being fatherly to naruto and i lose my shit and start beating my fist against the earth sobbing and shaking and etc.
now TO BE FAIR. i think if anyone should be naruto's legal guardian it should probably be iruka because iruka was the one who took care of naruto when naruto needed it most, and canonically naruto thinks of iruka as a father figure so much that he like, asks him to act as his father at his wedding, and he has this whole moment as a kid
THAT SAID. i like ur ask, and when it comes to the idea of legal responsibilities, i find the idea of Yamato being granted (even temporary) guardianship over Naruto to be extremely funny and entertaining.
i think yamato would personally take a lot of pride in that and really enjoy it. i think he would love nothing more than to have a practical, obligatory tie to enable him in his desire to take care of the people he loves. i also think that he would be obnoxious about it, at least a little bit. partially because his sense of humor is a little weird, and partially because he has no idea how to act as a guardian figure.
like i think he'd say shit like "bedtime! that's an order!" and naruto would be like "oh, piss off!" and then yamato would use his scary face and naruto would get even more frustrated, and the whole time yamato would be like "wow, naruto is a great kid (if a little disobedient!) and this is such a fun game we are playing, even if it tires me out :)"
unfortunately i think, out of all the guardian/mentor figures that naruto has had, (sandaime, iruka, kakashi, jiraiya, tsunade, those elderly frogs, yamato...) i think yamato is the one he is least close with, and would least like to be a permanent fixture in his life.
i'm not saying that he doesn't like yamato, just that...i would be really surprised if there's a point after yamato gets captured, where naruto is like "man, we should really save yamato!" y'know?
i could be wrong! i haven't gotten there yet. but like. i'm not anticipating it. thats okay tho i love naruto and hes got a lot going on.
picture below is more related to the tags than the text
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