#epic song analysis

[that-greek-mythology-girl]

During "Full Speed Ahead", Odysseus goes: "Ithaca is waiting. My Kingdoom is waiting. Penelope is waiting for me." Whilst the chorus goes: "Ithaca's waiting. The Kingdoom is waiting. ....waiting." Do you think that little space where they don't repeat Penelope's name, they're saying to themselves their own loved ones names. For example, Eurylochus would go: "Ithaca's waiting. The Kingdoom is waiting. Ctimene is waiting."

And then they never make it home.

HAHA

[madbard]

“We are the same, you and I.”

I can’t get over how Scylla was the first threat that Odysseus did not defeat in any way. He started the journey by blinding Polyphemus. He used a storm to escape Poseidon before his punishment was over, and he was able to reason with Circe. He killed the sirens. Even if Odysseus lost some men, he always found a way through on his own terms. His enemies were either swayed to his side or left dissatisfied, damaged, or dead.

Then he encountered Scylla. Scylla, that which terrifies the very god of the seas so deeply that he dares not enter her realm. Scylla, who acknowledged Odysseus as her own kind. And he didn’t try to come up with a plot to get around her safely, to reason with her, to injure or kill her. Like Eurylochus said, he “didn’t take a stand.” He weighed his options and chose to sacrifice six of his men for passage. She was left satisfied, and it doesn’t matter that most of his men survived.

For the first time in his journey, Odysseus truly lost.

[gotstabbedbyapen]

I have very complicated feelings for the Vengeance Saga (after the first listen)

Disclaimer: I will only criticize Epic the Vengeance Saga as a work on its own, not for its inaccuracy or deviation from mythology and The Odyssey. There are more knowledgable people who can point out and analyze the changes in Epic the Musical, but that is not what I'll be tackling here.

To put it bluntly, I'm not being angsty about it as I should. The whole saga just... didn't feel right with me.

Now, first off all, I'm a big fan of Epic and had been following it since the Cyclops saga (first version). I've been in love with many songs and hyperfixed it for months on end. But when the Vengeance saga came along, I didn't feel that same bubbling love rise in me.

Even as a fan, this isn't my first time having peeves with Epic. I didn't jam with the re-release sagas for a while, I'm underwhelmed with the Circe VS Odysseus fight and other issues, very unpopular opinion but "Monster" wasn't too impactful to me, and also the God Games (especially Zeus' attack).

The Vengeance Saga though? Well, they say we gotta do the Bun-Meat-Bun (or whatever the hell its name really is) technique when giving criticism, so I'll start with the good parts.

I love that Odysseus looked so done with Calypso in "Not Sorry For Loving You". They're basically this meme:

Like sorry you're a sad but you're still an abuser 😒

Then Odysseus starts singing the reprise for "Full Speed Ahead" but there's no one to back him up. That one hits me hard. To whoever on Tumblr said that after the Thunder Saga we will never hear the crew's back-up again and Odysseus' singing will be answered with silence, Apollo really blessed you with the red ball.

Hermes and the Winions' part was really cool too! I really like them being mischievous helper! The warning about the wind bag and the changing scene of Odysseus fighting off sea monsters while Hermes just vibing with the beats is 👌👌👌

But after that the hype started to sizzle out for me. You might want to skip this part if you're not comfortable with harsh criticism because I WON'T hold back.

It's really backward but I like the Odysseus VS Charybdis draft more than the final production. Charybdis' roars and music are somehow less intimidating, which is a shame because I thought this would be one of the biggest struggles Odysseus will face. Even with awesome illustrative animatics, the scene wasn't as thrilling as I've expected.

The other songs got massive improvement from its draft version (on top of my mind I can think of "Thunder Bringer", "There Are Other Ways", "Little Wolf"), but I don't get why "Charybdis" didn't get up-graded as much like them. It's like a cake that was throughly baked but half decorated and it just didn't taste as good as I've hoped.

Then we have the Odysseus VS Poseidon part in "Get In The Water" and "Six Hundred Strikes". The first thought I had for GITW is this song sounds like all the draft snippets were mashed together without a smooth transition/connection between them. Jorge and Steven's performance is great, but there's not enough tension for me to dread for Odysseus. When Poseidon first met Odysseus in "Ruthlessness", the whole opening was terrifyingly good! And we didn't even have any illustration animatic back then! (that's not to say the GITW animatics were bad, they just can't salvage much when the song itself was already weak)

I wasn't impressed with Poseidon's Shatter The Ocean move either. It's supposed to be the Strongest AttackTM but it's less scary than when he and the Laestrygonians destroyed Odysseus' eleven ships with probably 1% of their power. It didn't even help when Poseidon looked like he's having a seizure with lights pouring out of his eyes and mouth during the transformation.

Odysseus being literally on the brink of death with the souls of his loved ones pulling him into the abyss is a gem in the rough, but because we've seen Odysseus almost drowning before in the end of the Thunder Saga, it's not as shocking as it should be. Furthermore, Poseidon could have instant-killed Odysseus right then and there but didn't really annoyed me. But I guess he just wanted Odysseus to slowly suffer while dying.

Right when I thought the progress will get better, it... gets down. I can go with Odysseus using wind to escape the water, but him wearing it like a jetpack is so comical it ruined the drastic of the situation. And I'm officially let down when Odysseus FUCKING ATTACKED Poseidon in "Six Hundred Strike".

What? Just... why with that choice?

Look, I'm not gonna fault Epic for making creative liberties from the source material (as said in the disclaimer), but I will criticize if that change contradict itself in the transformative work. And this is one of them.

Poseidon and the gods have been proven time and time again in the musical just how powerful they are. Their ominous and grandiose entrances, them striking fear and inferiority in our hearts just by singing. Even Circe, a low-level goddess, poses a constant threat to the crew and Odysseus had to get help from Hermes just to get a chance to corner her (and Hermes even joked that he can still die!)

Poseidon easily destroyed almost all of Odysseus' fleet. Odysseus was very avoidant of him, opting to go to the literal Underworld to find instruction on how to dodge him and sailing through Scylla's lair + willing to sacrifice six men for safe passage. And when Poseidon said he can drown all of Ithaca, it's not just bluffing, he would and could have done that. Yeah, the King of the Sea is THAT BIG of a treat.

So no, Odysseus isn't cool to attack Poseidon, he's being stupid. I'm not even cheering for him the whole him he fight, just groaning at how ridiculous the whole thing is. If Epic is more believable and sticks to WHAT IT HAD ESTABLISHED BEFORE, having a sudden burst of anger and choosing ruthlessness won't save Odysseus from one swipe of Poseidon's trident. Odysseus stood no chance against a one of the most powerful deity, even if he's the protagonist and love his family.

Not only that, Poseidon didn't even defend himself and was wounded by a mere human! And he just sat there and took all the blows and insults from Odysseus??? And he actually begged Odysseus to stop and agree to quell the storm to let him get home??? I'm not buy that bullshit. I'm more upset that a literal Olympian god was nerfed down than Odysseus having a Gary Stu moment. Give me a break, that try-hard moment to be cool and edgy just show how badly written the scene is.

What's the fucking point of hyping up how dangerous the gods are if a human can take one down? Tell me this isn't some Wattpad-y Greek myth retelling fanfic where the teenage Y/N sass her way to defeat an entire pantheon. Epic really traded its opportunity to be better for some cheap and out-of-the-blue dramas in this saga, dare I say it's even worse than Zeus' OOC attack on Athena. I'm very disappointed with that decision.

On an end note, the saga did have one saving point with the "After everything you've done, how will you sleep at night?" - "Next to my wife" lines. Odysseus knew he could be the most horrendous man ever and Penelope would still choose his side, that just show how powerful their love and faith in each other are.

But not enough to excuse all the terrible cinematic choices.

[eggcats]

I've been listening to the Thunder Saga, and I wonder if Zeus is also asking a question with a right and wrong answer in Thunder Bringer like I think Poseidon did in Ruthlessness. (I have a post for that, but I think Odysseus wasn't supposed to apologize, but to instead acknowledge that he should have killed Polyphemus).

Poseidon had to teach him to be ruthless.

Zeus needs to teach him to stop being so prideful.

Like, yes - Eurylochus did stage the mutiny and killed the cow. But! That was because Odysseus decided not to tell any of his men that they would need to accept 6 deaths to get home and allow them to make the choice themselves - because Odysseus couldn't handle the idea that they might refuse going past Scylla and keep him from going home.

This is even present in the song Scylla. Eurylochus is moved to confess that it was him who opened the bag of winds, but Odysseus keeps his own secrets and guilt to himself. I think none of the men even knew they were going past Scylla at all until it happened, since all Eurylochus says is "something approaches," implying he doesn't know what that something even IS.

Scylla even compares Odysseus to themselves, with his full transformation from man to monster now completed.

You hide a reason for shame You know that we are the same Leaving them feeling betrayed Breaking the bonds that you've made There is no price we won't pay We both know what it takes to survive

But if you notice, once they kill the cow, they start following Odysseus again. Hell, Eurylochus calls him captain! They follow his orders to escape! This shows that their real desire wasn't to overthrow Odysseus, but rather their anger and betrayal at not even having the option to choose to fight over sacrifice.

And honestly, this happened because Odysseus has demonstrated time and again that he will not discuss anything with his men and instead makes decisions without their input (too much pride to ever consider anyone's opinion other than his own).

In Storm, he tries to force the fleets to keep going despite Eurylochus saying that continuing would sink them all. In the same song, Odysseus also decides to go to the wind god without any discussion beforehand, and completely ignores Eurylochus's advice in Luck Runs Out about the inherent danger of going to the gods for help. In this same song, Odysseus also completely ignores the deaths of his men by Polyphemus, and instead brags about none of them dying in the war. (Once again, the pride Zeus mentions, and that Eurylochus criticizes in both Luck Runs Out and Puppeteer).

This is why Eurylochus opens the bag of winds, because Odysseus has proven he can't be trusted to tell him anything that could be important or put their lives in danger. Despite Eurylochus being his second in command, he's never treated as such. Odysseus has never once discussed something with him, taken his concerns into account, made a decision with him together, or even taken his advice. (Even cutting him off as far back as Full Speed Ahead without even considering his opinion).

Odysseus continues to ignore what Eurylochus tries to talk to him about in Puppeteer, and instead unintentionally gets all his men trapped by Circe. He then goes against Eurylochus again in the same song to confront her despite neither of them knowing if she can be defeated. All of this comes to a head when Odysseus does the same thing again in Scylla, except his decision was to intentionally let their men die for his own desires - and Eurylochus had no idea until it had already happened.

And that's why Eurylochus mutinies. He does it because he cares about his men, seemingly more than Odysseus has demonstrated he ever has.

(I'm not saying that Eurylochus has been right this whole time, and honestly I doubt Eurylochus would say the same - but Odysseus won't even listen to what he has to say, is the problem. He has too much pride).

And then Zeus arrives and proves Eurylochus right.

Zeus gives Odysseus a choice - him or his men. Forcing him to come to terms with the very same decision he made during Scylla and expose him for only caring for himself and not the men under his command.

Zeus is criticizing Odysseus and claiming that he's too full of pride to sacrifice himself to save his men. His men of which he is their captain. Of which he is their king. Zeus points this out to him explicitly, leading me to believe that he wasn't supposed to choose himself here.

I think that by taking back command after they killed the cow, Odysseus had taken responsibility for his men's actions. Except, when confronted with those same actions, he refuses to. Much like how a boss gets in trouble when their subordinates do something wrong, a captain should do the same for his crew.

Except. Odysseus doesn't. He fails the test.

And now he must have his pride taken from him again and again until he learns the lesson Zeus was teaching him. Just like he did with learning ruthlessness from Poseidon.

I think the next saga will involve him being confronted with this decision he makes here, and how it was the wrong one, and then the saga after that (perhaps with the suitors? I'm unsure how many more are planned) is when Odysseus will reprise Thunder Bringer and finally be able to return home.

[ghostvibesonly]

“deep down you hide a reason for shame”

Eurylochus shameful that he’s the one who opened the bag while Odysseus was asleep. Odysseus hiding the fact he knew what would happen in Scylla’s lair.

“deep down you know that we are the same”

Eurylochus wanting to escape Circe’s island with Odysseus and leave the rest of the crew behind, letting them die by being eaten as pigs. Odysseus leading six men to their deaths by intentionally handing out six torches. Scylla has six heads

“leaving them feeling betrayed, breaking the bonds that you’ve made”

Eurylochus betraying Odysseus as a second in command (and friend) by openly doubting him and opening the bag when expressly told not. Odysseus breaking Eurylochus’s trust as a captain by leading his crew to the lair and sacrificing six men, six friends, one of them being Eurylochus (until another member of the crew pushes him out of the way and sacrifices themself)

“there is no price we won’t pay”

Odysseus pays the price of Eurylochus choosing to mutinize (and kill the cow) in an attempt to save himself and the crew (the latter although reckless and basically an unintentional death sentence being done so they all wouldn’t starve). Eurylochus (and the crew) pays the price of Odysseus choosing to save himself when Zeus arrives.

“we both know what it takes to survive”

Interestingly, during the mutiny Eurylochus and the crew chose not to kill Odysseus (at least not in the moment) and even bandaged his wounds that they inflicted while he was unconscious to prevent him from bleeding out. In that moment, they chose to show mercy. However, there is no mercy on Odysseus’s end when Zeus tells him to make a choice. There is only ruthlessness done out of desperation, as the only person Odysseus chooses to show mercy to is himself.

Both know exactly what it takes to survive, as Odysseus voice shakes with despair knowing what he’s about to do while Eurylochus, soundly sadly resigned, accepts his fate. There is a brother’s final stand coming to its end and both know it. And they know only one of them will make it out alive

[urbestestwindgod]

aita for indirectly leading to the deaths of a majority of a mortal’s crew?

so i (30000, gf) am a really cool really fun interesting silly person, so when this mortal (40smth, m) came to me for help going home to his island after ten tears at war and two years at sea, i figured i would make it a game.

now i was pretty clear that this was a game and all he had to do was win for my help. i told him the rules where as follows; just keep the bag closed. he asked the catch and i wasnt just gonna TELL the guy exactly plainly how to win so i cryptically told him to keep his friends close and his enemies closer, told him he never really knew who he could trust—including me, reminded him not to let his crew open it, that he might have to kill some people for this (which i dont see a problem with tbh). finally that the ends always justify the means and that friends become enemies.

so i give him a bag full of the storms and send him back with some of my winions, who then add the challenge of telling his crew that there is treasure inside (which was a lie, hi yea he should of picked up on the liar to liar communication). so i also told him that as the wind god, i give the fire enough to stay burning. im very bored a lot of the time; i wanted to watch this crew fall put of trust with each other for my own enjoyment!!! is that so bad??

so he stays up for nine days straight, i had a great time watching him. and then he finally drifts to sleep like a weak loser and they open it and its a whole oohhh nooo thing, but like, crews fault for believing two small gremlins over their damn captain but whatvr, so then they go to poseidon (brother of my pookie zeus, idn much abt him personally tho) and hes mad abt them blinding his dumb son or smth like that, and he destroys like 11 ships of 50 each (whoops) and now suddenly its MY fault???

well ive been reflecting and my winions and me have been talking and while my friends (zeus, zephyrus, hypnos, etc.) are allll on my side, im just not that sure anymore. so aita?

[epicthemusical]

Why open the bag? KYFC analysis

i did a deeper explanation on why the crew opened the bag and i think i did it pretty well!

people love mentioning how stupid the crew is and i can agree with that only because i know how it ends. the crew didn't have that foresight

There are three main factors that leads to the crew trusting Odysseus:

1 ) He kept all 600 men alive through the war

After he has managed to keep everyone alive it now sets a level of perfection they expect from Odysseus. however they learn that he can indeed make mistakes, ones that led to people dying to the cyclops. they start worrying if they could be next to die if Odysseus makes a mistake.

2 ) Eurylochus steady support

Having a steady second in command is vital to a leader they help keeps things in order and can sometimes even be closer to the troops than the actual leader. Odysseus job was planning and leading leaving little time to really get to know a lot of the crew. Eurylochus is the one they know better and support. As long as he supports Odysseus they will continue following him. This is shown with his "instrument" that represents him is the crews voices. The obviously trust him a lot so when their trust is still shaken from the cyclops Eurylochus OPENLY argues with Odysseus it confirms their fears as valid and makes things even worse. In fact in Puppeteer when Eurylochus says there is something he needs to tell Odysseus it is implied that Eurylochus was going to tell how he had a hand in the bag being opened. maybe not directly but he also didn't stop it.

3 ) Polites trust and optimism

Now in the song they mention how everything has changed since Polites. Now I'm sure Polites bright trusting nature and obvious care for the crew helped them trust in Odysseus. However with Polites dead now it takes away one of the pillars of trust in Odysseus.

-----------------------------------------------------

so basically all three of the pillars of trust are shaken Eurylochus went up against him, Polites is dead, and he no longer has a perfect survival record. its not helping that the wind spirits constantly planting doubts and promises of treasure. Overall it is very understandable that the crew lost trust in Odysseus and end up opening the bag.

[hecates-corner]

THE VENGEANCE SAGA

🌊 SPOILERS AHEAD 🌊

PLUS, MENTIONS OF S.A.

🔱 NOT SORRY FOR LOVING YOU

Even though Calypso’s actions infuriate me, her actress’ voice (Barbara Wangui) is incredible and so compelling. She sounds like a lotus flower, and just that notion is marvelous, now that I say that. She is the island of the lotus eaters, and I do really like that she isn’t blindly in love with Odysseus.

She can see she hurt him, but she still believes she was in the right. She’s sorry she did all she did, but she wouldn’t take a single moment back. Calypso only admits she’s wrong for “pushing” him. This allusion only shows that she regrets the pain she caused him when she forced him into bed with her, for several years. But does she regret the action?

It’s so well written, an apologist song to make excuses for her. But still, it’s only meant to toy with your emotions. And yet, she doesn’t play the “one song character”, the “tiny plot point”. Jorge gave her pain, and anguish, and loss. He made her seem human, while still holding the godlike apathy and blamelessness.

🔱 DANGEROUS

And onto my favorite song, for the reason alone that it’s a crazy banger with HERMES IN IT! I knew half of this song when it came out, and can lip sync this in my sleep. By the gods, it’s incredible.

Ahem. Right, the analysis. Okay.

Odysseus’ first four of lament in the beginning hurt extra hard when the silence plays out. The crew would have responded… had they lived.

(Anyone else getting nostalgia for last winter from this?? How fast time goes! We have one saga left, and— shoot, right. Ahem ahem.)

And then, the beloved Trickster Lord comes whirling into frame. Dancing. I can just FEEL the light-up floor, the disco ball… you’d think he and Hera would be good friends, huh?

This gives us a little glimpse into Hermes’ lordly self. That he is great with instructions, that he’s almost prophetic with them. He’s not specific, he’s vague, but looking back, you can only go, “OHHHH!” Hermes is a cunning god, and aside from that, he lifts Odysseus’ spirits. He really is Odysseus’ friend.

And then the parallels. To Wouldn’t You Like, to Keep Your Friends Close. Ouch. No, wow. No, scratch that— both.

It makes me wonder if Odysseus “Danger is my middle name” of Ithaca will ever figure out that Athena rooted for him, in the end. Makes me wonder if we’ll hear from Athena again.

🔱 CHARYBDIS

GYATT DAMN. TALK ABOUT INCREDIBLE?!

THIS might be my favorite song, for the typical reasons. You can hear the actions, and when I watched the animatics, it only showed me what I pictured. Perfectly portrayed.

I avoided spoilers for this song, not knowing how good it would be. Damn, am I glad.

Storm parallels, of course. And then, the sheer terror and turn of relief, when suddenly you realize he’s not as close as he thought he was. One last obstacle.

Love the fact that when he sings, “So if you don’t have much to say,” you realize Charybdis won’t be singing. I adored that. This song shows off how smart Odysseus really is.

🔱 GET IN THE WATER

This song is just plain terrifying. It’s scary. It’s cold.

The screaming shakes me to my core. At first, I hadn’t been fully on board (haha) with the choice of Poseidon’s voice actor, and then I took a few more listens to Ruthlessness, and reevaluated that thought. Besides that, he’s quite literally perfect for this song, specifically.

Let me tell you that Steven Rodriguez understood the assignment when he was told to say, “I can’t,” “No,” and “Ruthlessness is … mercy upon … ourselves … DIE!”

Realizing that the line about “gouging [his] son’s eyes” is a cheeky revenge for Polyphemus is incredible. You know what’s funny? Poseidon and Odysseus aren’t so different from each other.

Especially now.

Besides that, oh god, the memories of his loved ones singing into his “final moments” is painful. Thought we’d heard the last of Polites, Jorge? REMEMBER, JORGE?

It’s a double entendre, too. They’re singing to him, telling him to keep going, and yet, they’re telling him that they’re waiting for him, too. Now… some for better, and some for worse.

Will they forgive him the same way he’s forgotten how to do, when he dies?

🔱 SIX HUNDRED STRIKE

Aka, Poseidon discovers the indomitable human spirit.

Let me tell you, hearing the guitar made me gasp. Missed that riff, in all its glory and power, let me tell you. Plus, the wind bag’s theme, too!

This is a boss battle. That’s it. I swear to god, put the instrumental of this banger in Hades by Supergiant.

The screaming in this really made the song. The voice acting. The change of tone. The change of Odysseus’ tone. He’s never been afraid to talk back to gods, has he?

I was only miffed that there was blood on the trident in the animation, and not ichor. But that’s what you get when you’ve been devoted to Greek mythology all of your life, you become an accuracy snob. All in all though, I ADORED that animation. Like… holy shit. Holy FUCKING SHIT!!!

Then, the stabbing and gasping. Poseidon attempting to make him feel bad, second-guess himself, by screaming and calling him a monster.

“Look what you’ve turned me into! Look what we’ve become!” Odysseus KNOWS that he and Poseidon are similar. Fathers willing to defend their honor, and the honor of their sons. However, Poseidon was always defending his own honor, and Odysseus was always protecting the lives of those involved.

And the CHOKING NOISES from POSEIDON??

“After everything you’ve done… how will you sleep at night?”

“Next to my wife.”

AND I GASPED. AND I CHEERED!!!!!!!!!!!

On a much more hilarious note, I saw @justvea18 post a version of this meme as Poseidon. Was giggling my ass off. Go check it out, please.

[cb-writes-stuff]

So, in “Not Sorry for Loving You”, Calypso says “I wish you would chase me / Or try to embrace me / For once, I wish you would lie and say—” And then Odysseus interrupts with “I love you”.

I don’t think she even wanted him to say “I love you”. Or, she did, but that’s not what I think she was going to say. Based on how the rhymes were going, I think she was going to say “For once, I wish you would lie and say you don’t hate me”. She knows (or believes she knows) Odysseus hates her. It’s been seven years and he’s constantly denied her and turned her away, she’s figured that much out. She just wants to hear it, just once, that he doesn’t, even if she knows it’ll be a lie. He’s about to leave, and all she wants—all she’s desperate for—is to be left with anything other than the idea that he’s always hated her and always will. She just wanted to cling to a lie that he didn’t completely hate her.

[justaghostingon]

God Games: A master class in Character Depth

An analysis of God Games from Epic the Musical

Handling Characters is hard, especially when u have only a few lines in a song to establish an entire personality, while sharing it with five other new characters. Where most would result in sterotypes or flat characters, Epic the musical manages to make its gods seem developed and three dimensional, and act it does by deliberately playing against audience expectations.

In the modern era, Greek mythology is fairly mainstream, thanks to works like Percy Jackson. The gods in god games, Apollo, Hephestis, Aphrodite, Ares, and Hera, are all well known, with established canon. Even if u don’t pay attention to greek mythologu if u can help it, u prob know thr basics like Hera getting mad at Zeus and his (often unwilling) affair partners, Aphrodite as the goddess of love who is always causing problems, or Ares as the brash god of war. Epic the musical knows this. Its expecting you, who have listened for this long, to be familiar with the core myths, and so builds off what you already know by subverting expectations.

Beginning at the first solo with Apollo, famous for music and the sun, we see this begin. Now arguably Apollo is the least well known of the bunch, so he has to establish himself in the opening “you all know im a fan of catchy songs.” But what fasinates me is what he doesn’t say. Now im not a hundred percent certain if Apollo and Helios have been merged in Epic the musical, since in Mutiny they don’t to my knowledge mention the sun god’s name, but its implied to be apollo. Apollo’s friends, the immortal cows, have been killed by Odysseus’s crew, but Apollo doesn’t hold a grudge against that. He doesn’t even mention it. Instead he focuses on the sirens, who most would consider monsters, and argues for their personhood by denouncing their massacre: “with so many siren’s gone, i think ody’s in the wrong” Athena backs up this personhood established by Apollo by never once acusing them of being less human than Odysseus, only arguing that they struck first. She even claims it will teach the other sirens to be more cautious, which ultimately wins Apollo over. Taken together, this paints Apollo as far more than a flippant singer, but rather someone who does not hold the actions of others against Ody, and instead sees personhood in those who are often denied it. He is just and compassionate, and it is through appealing to both his sense of justice and compassion that Athena wins.

Next is Hephestis, blacksmith of the gods. Although his birth of being thrown off olympus by Zeus for being ugly and subsequently working his way back up is fairly well known, his most common myth is his marriage to Aphrodite and her subsequent cheating on him. Hephestis in god games shows signs of being burned by this betrayal, focusing on thr work it takes to trust someone. “trust is not given its forged” In asking why he should help someone who “sacrified his own cohort” he is essentially asking why he should help someone like aphrodite and Zeus, who were willing to turn their backs on those that trusted them for their own petty gain. Athena then refutes this by reminding Hephestis of the differences in Odysseus’s story and his own. Odysseus was betrayed first, and thus has thr right to act, as Hephestis once did when he literally caught Aphrodite and Ares cheating in a golden net and left them that way for all the gods to laugh at them. To close the deal, Athena reminds Hephestis that Odysseus still has people who trust and miss him, and he has thr opportunity to rebuild, just as Hephestis himself has had to do, thus winning his support.

Aphrodite marks the beginning of the most famous trio introduced in this song. Most listeners already know her as the frivolous god who pushes romantic above everythinf, even to the people’s own detriment. Just look at the mess she made with Helena and Paris! Aphrodite herself is well aware of her reputation, calling Athena out for judging her, “little miss high and mighty.” But her beef with Odysseus is not for his rejection of Calypso or even Circe, but rather his mother’s suffering. The focus on the platonic love between mother and son reveals another side to her character, that she is representing other types of love as well, especially that of women who are so often forgotten in the grand scheme of things. Even Athena overlooks Aphrodite’s point, claiming that Odysseus’s war was a justifablr reason to overlook it. However Aphrodite stands her ground, pointing out how his proud snd unnecessary actions are the reason he could not get back to his mother in time “more like busy spiting the cyclops” Athena seems to realize this in the end, switching her tune to a gentler one to match Aphrodite’s before she is intrupted. In the end, it is the reminder that “a broken heart can mend” and i suspect the mention of Odysseus’s son that sway her. Unlike his mother, Odysseus has a chance to mend his son’s broken heart, a goal Aphrodite is willing to release him to meet.

Ares interuption establishes two things about him right up front. First that he is every bit the brash, dangerous god he’s known as, and to establish he has his own sense of honor, which disaproves of Athena changing her tone to sway Aphrodite “really athena? These old tricks.” His following rant about Odysseus leaving his friends to die without even trying further establish his worldview. He’s not mad at Odysseus for failing against Cyilla, he’s mad he “held back” his power and “didn’t even try.” Much like Uncle Ben, Ares believes with great power comes great responsibility. By Odysseus “holding back” he fails in his responsibility as a leader anf a warrior. In Ares eyes, every fight should be fair, face to face instead of using tricks, a proper test of skill and power. To hold back power or to resort to trickery is in his mind the same as having none leading to the comparison with Odysseus’s son. It is here he makes his misstep. By calling someone Athena values as weak, he is escentually calling Athena weak, giving her the opportunity to call him out This briefly gives Athena the upper hand, “hold your tongue now, his son’s my friend!” Which she uses to both finish her arguement with Aphrodite, “tell your lover,” and remind Ares that despite his actions in the past, Odysseus in not going to hold back anymore, not against the men camped out in his palace harrassinf his wife and kid. This ultimately causes both Aphrodite and Ares to agree, though nether is fully convinced.

The final battle of wits is against Hera, the queen of thr gods herself. In most common myths, Hera comes across as bitter and petty, lashing out at the unfortunate women her husband takes advantage of (and their hero children) instead of her husband. But God games hera instead stands aloof, almost omnipotent. “So many heroes, so many tales” she reminds Athena that to her, Odysseus (and even Athena herself) is mearly a story character, one of thousands of stories she has seen. Why should she interfere? What makes this story different? “Give me one good reason why yours should prevail.” Hera isn’t impressed by any of Odysseus’s accomplishments or skills: “he’d got the mind of a genius, try harder.” What matters to her, (and what i suspect Athena knew from the getgo would be her trump card) is the marriages she is the goddess of, and the faithfulness even her own godly husband is incapable of. “Never once has he cheated on his wife.” In bringing up this fact, in making it personal, Athena turns Odysseus from a character in a story hera is tired of, to one she is rooting for, thus winning her support.

All in all, i think god games did an excellent job of handling these five gods’ introductions. The depth of character is truely impressive.

And if u don’t know what im talking about, look up god games on youtube, they’ve got some beautiful animatics.

[that-greek-mythology-girl]

What if the Ithaca Saga, the end of "Would you fall in love with me" ended with Odysseus exhaling "I can relax, my friend" in the same note Polites ended open arms?

What would y'all do THEN?

(Changed a bit of the idea from mrs_superwholock92's tiktok video about the same concept :D)

[catannepicfanatic]

Quick warning, Vengeance Saga spoilers. If you don't want spoilers, just scroll past.

OMG

The vengeance saga is soooo good! I love Jorge's compositional skills for these songs, I can't wait to analyse these songs.

(It's still going to be a while as I am still very busy :( but I hope to analyse them soon)

Not sorry for loving you, is a song that I am personally conflicted on as Calypso is a character that I don't view in a positive light, but I do feel like not sorry for loving you is a great moment of closure to Calypso and Odysseus' relationship (even though it is a very toxic relationship, also when i say relationship i mean character relationship I'm not necessarily meaning a romantic or sexual or platonic relationship. I find their relationship complex and complicated so i don't have a label for it) and allows Calypso a moment to show her perspective with both Odysseus and the audience.

I know there is quite a bit of discourse around Calypso in Epic. What's listed above is my personal opinion. It's fine if you have a differing opinion. Please remember that everyone has differing Greek mythology knowledge and life experiences that has shaped their opinion of Calypso. If you disagree with my opinion, that's fine, but please don't be disrespectful of mine or others' opinions.

I absolutely love the opening chords to dangerous, ( I have not heard them enough to determine what chords they are or what progression or key they are in, but there does sound to be some form of diminished chords and minor chords) and I love when Hermes joins the song how the whole song changes chord progression, melody, and instrumentation.

CHARYBDIS IS IN 5/4 TIME!!!!!! I love it when Jorge writes in unusual time signatures. I have recently re-entered the world of composition, and I have challenged myself to write songs in unusual time signatures, with Jorge being a musical influence for me. I have looked at his songs in unusual time signatures as a guide for my own songs.

WE FINALLY GOT TO LISTEN TO THE FULL GET IN THE WATER SUNG BY STEVEN RODRIGUEZ!!!!!!!!!! The intro to the song is amazing, and the orchestration is just spectacular.

When I first heard the snippet for six hundred strike, I was wondering why we heard Aeolus' theme/motif and after finding out that Odysseus was given the bag of winds again, it all makes sense now. And when Odysseus used the bag as a jet pack (wtf Jorge, that's not very time accurate) to be honest I was so confused by the jet pack that I am put off by anything else happening in that moment. Then, when Odysseus uses Poseidon own trident to harm him, we hear the danger motif, but it has been slightly altered to show that Odysseus is the threat in this moment.

Sorry if this is very jumpy. All of these points and more are just floating around in my head, and they quickly swap focus. It is part of the reason as to why it has taken my quite a few hours to write this.

[madbard]

Is Calypso sympathetic?

She trapped Odysseus on an island for ten years, consistently violating his boundaries. Even her apology shifts the blame towards him - it’s not that she’s sorry for trapping him, she’s sorry her love was “too much” for him. He’s the one who couldn’t take it. Intentional or not, her lyrics put him at fault.

But she was abandoned there for one hundred years. She never had the opportunity to learn how to love and respect someone else. She was given her first and only chance at real, human connection - and she clung to it, mistaking her own desperate loneliness and pain for love. How could she have treated him well?

I don’t know if Calypso is sympathetic. Her actions towards Odysseus caused him real, lasting harm. Her actions made sense in the context of her own past and personality.

In the end, Odysseus forgave her, just enough to offer her one final piece of comfort.

In the end, she was left to suffer alone.

Maybe she deserves sympathy. Maybe she doesn’t. But within this narrative, she will never receive it.

[sera8273]

Song 19 No Longer You is such an amazing song because not only do we get introduced to Tiresias the blind prophet, we also get more hindsight of the future. Like Ody, we’re trying to piece together the puzzle:

I see a song of past romance = Suffering. At first, he’s talking about Odysseus and Penelope. But when he repeats, he’s talking about the Siren who cosplayed as Penelope singing to Odysseus to lure him in as he played along.

I see the sacrifice of men = Scylla. This one was obvious, Ody was gonna sacrifice his men to try and get home or something. But when it repeats it shows the actual horror and fear they went through because they went through with it unknowingly and in the most gruesome way possible.

I see portrayals of betrayal and a brothers final stand = Mutiny. Eurylochus once again questions Odysseus’s actions and they fight for it. When repeated. Not only is it the betrayal of getting stabbed by his own crew (literally for Perimedes) but also for killing the Sun Gods Immortal Cows.

I see you on the brink of death I see you draw your final breath = Thunder Bringer. This one was a bit tricky but when repeated, it means the choice that Zeus gave Odysseus, it was either him or his crew. And he gives out his final breath when he practically drowns.

I see a man who gets to make it home alive but it’s no longer you = ??? At first it’s talking about how Odysseus came back whist losing apart of his humanity but also shows that when he does return home that he is under a disguise.

I see your palace covered in red faces of men had long believed your dead = King. It’s been 20 years and finally the suitors who get prepared to infiltrate the castle get killed off one by one with a sword by Odysseus.

I see your wife with a man who is haunting a man with a trail of bodies = Would you Fall In Love With Me Again. At first it seems like Penelope is with another man, willingly or not. But than it’s clear that it’s Odysseus that Penelope is with haunted by the actions he has done.

[faithtrickedhope]

this part—

—of the horse and the infant kills me, now, looking back on it. because odysseus tells them, he tells his men, listen to me. do what i say. and you’ll live. and then they do, after that they do. they follow his every order. desperate to gets home to their families, they do what he says even when, surely, they must start to question his judgment. and they die. and they die. and they die. over and over, more and more of them, stripped of their identities, lost to a sea of casualties. their families - because they have families, too, wives and children, just like odysseus (when did his become so much more important than theirs?) - their families wait for them. and they never make it home.

[i-dreamed-i-had-a-son]

(Some) Subtle Musical Connections and Callbacks in Epic: The Musical

I wanted to make a little mini-compliation of these little connections or references I noticed because I haven't seen them anywhere else yet!

"The Horse and the Infant" X "Survive" - the melody on Zeus's line, "I don't think you're ready"/Odysseus's response, "I know that I'm ready" is used in his exhortation to his men, "That is who we're fighting!" The parallel continues throughout the verse, culminating on "right here and now," because he is calling on them to face the looming challenge, which is the only way they have a chance to survive, just as Zeus did to him. He's using an almost divine authority

"The Horse and the Infant" X "Monster" - the opening guitar lead is the same, because we are being introduced to Odysseus (first as he originally is, and then as the changed monster-man he chooses to become)

"Full Speed Ahead" X "Puppeteer" - the melody on "Ithaca's waiting! Penelope's waiting," is used as the opening plucked melody in Puppeteer, because Odysseus knows they had been so close to home. His longing has been painfully renewed and he's thinking of home as Eurylochus comes up to him

"Luck Runs Out" - The ensemble gradually joins in with Eurylochus as he convinces them to doubt Odysseus. Initially they only sing on the word "How?" Which acts as a response to Odysseus's two statements, "We've come this far," and "You doubt that I could figure this out?" But as the song goes on, they begin singing along with Eurylochus on, "You rely on wit / And people die on it," showing their gradual realization and agreement with him

"Keep Your Friends Close" - The melody on Penelope's name is distorted from what it usually is, representing that the vision of Penelope is not real. Additionally, the melody on the word "open" in the four repeated "Just keep your eyes open" lines mirrors the danger motif.

"The Underworld" - As explained in a previous post, when Odysseus's drowned men are crying out to him, Athena's piano is in the background, because not only did he lose her mentorship (a "death" in itself, referenced in "Monster"), he lost his men as a direct consequence of losing Athena. He "severed his own head" and theirs along with it, and her piano plays to represent how those losses are intertwined

This is only a few, but I wanted to highlight some things that I hadn't seen mentioned elsewhere (although they may well have been--I might've just missed them! I'm still pretty new to the fandom)! Feel free to reblog if you find more!! I'll keep adding on/do the same as I find them as well. Ahhh, this musical is amazing!!