#epic song analysis

[that-greek-mythology-girl]

During "Full Speed Ahead", Odysseus goes: "Ithaca is waiting. My Kingdoom is waiting. Penelope is waiting for me." Whilst the chorus goes: "Ithaca's waiting. The Kingdoom is waiting. ....waiting." Do you think that little space where they don't repeat Penelope's name, they're saying to themselves their own loved ones names. For example, Eurylochus would go: "Ithaca's waiting. The Kingdoom is waiting. Ctimene is waiting."

And then they never make it home.

HAHA

[northboreas]

I cannot understate how clever and beautiful Penelope's response to wyfilwma is. In the original myth, Penelope literally isn't sure if the man before her is truly her husband, so she asks him to move a bed that is impossible to move. A fact about their relationship that only he could know. When he gets absolutely flabbergasted over this request, it's proof that it IS him.

In Epic there is only one change. Instead of Penelope being unsure, Odysseus is unsure of himself and feels like he would be unrecognizable to his wife. He keeps telling her over and over again, I am not the man you knew, and it's almost as though he's trying to convince himself, too. Like since he crossed every line he's killed all the gentleness in him, and he has to force himself to accept it. Penelope knows better, Penelope knows him. Instead of using their wedding bed as a way to prove it to herself, she proves it to him instead.

"See that wedding bed? Could you carry it over?

Lift it high on your shoulders and take it far away from here"

Shes talking about their bed but she is also talking about their love, their history, everything that makes up their marriage. Its like shes asking him, if you truly are someone else- here's everything that we used to be, everything that we built together, throw it out. You're not the same, right? Then surely you can detach yourself from it all.

But he cant. he cant he cant he cant and she knows that. The shock and the outrage and the pain of being asked to do such a thing hits him with a full force and he talks of how he made the bed, what its meant to them, why he couldnt possibly move it away.

"Do you realize what you have asked me?

The only way to move it is to cut it from its roots"

To cut it from the roots would be to sever their love entirely, it cant exist without what came before and what came before was the two of them. He fears thats what she wants, a completely uproot of their life together. But the fact that he fears it, truly deeply cares like a sentimental bastard, the fact that he could never not be the man who loves her is what she's been trying to show him all along.

"Only my husband knew that

So I guess that makes him you"

like my GOD. THIS LINE. He cannot be anything but her love because he is the only man who knows what they are to each other. She says it and that is final. Moving it is impossible because seperating the man he used to be from the man he is is impossible too. They are one in the same.

"I will fall in love with you over and over again

I don't care how, where, or when

No matter how long it's been, you're mine

Don't tell me you're not the same person

You're always my husband and I've been waiting, waiting"

She is not loving him by ignoring the trail of bodies in his wake and her love does not change the carnage-- in fact she is the reason for it, she knows this and she doesnt care. This is her husband now and always. And as long as bloodied hands will still hold her weaving ones he is the same exact man she's been waiting for.

It is such a beautiful message to leave your audience with. It is so perfect for Penelope as a character and the emotional weight this song has elevated my understanding of the odyssey and their relationship. Twenty years is so long, everything has changed, we have done unforgivable things to get home to each other-- because our home is each other. You are sharp and cruel and I am cunning and so so angry and we are both so tired but guess fucking what, I love you. No matter how long its been, youre mine.

[madbard]

“We are the same, you and I.”

I can’t get over how Scylla was the first threat that Odysseus did not defeat in any way. He started the journey by blinding Polyphemus. He used a storm to escape Poseidon before his punishment was over, and he was able to reason with Circe. He killed the sirens. Even if Odysseus lost some men, he always found a way through on his own terms. His enemies were either swayed to his side or left dissatisfied, damaged, or dead.

Then he encountered Scylla. Scylla, that which terrifies the very god of the seas so deeply that he dares not enter her realm. Scylla, who acknowledged Odysseus as her own kind. And he didn’t try to come up with a plot to get around her safely, to reason with her, to injure or kill her. Like Eurylochus said, he “didn’t take a stand.” He weighed his options and chose to sacrifice six of his men for passage. She was left satisfied, and it doesn’t matter that most of his men survived.

For the first time in his journey, Odysseus truly lost.

[i-dreamed-i-had-a-son]

Musical details in the Ithaca Saga that shattered me:

Penelope's song includes a "hanging rhyme," or a rhyme which is never completed, lyrically showing how she is waiting for something. The line that is always left hanging is "Though I never thought it would come to this..." and she continues, "Just know that I'll be here--" to which the obvious completion of the rhyme is "Odysseus." But he hasn't returned...so she's left waiting for her missing piece.

Penelope also can't use Odysseus's name because of the threat posed by the suitors, as we see in the next song! Antinous is particularly musically threatening: when he sings "Where in the hell is our pride and our rage?!" he uses the very same melody Odysseus does in Mutiny on "I am not letting you get in my way!!"

This one's obvious, but Odysseus's name in his boss battle song is sung in the Danger motif, hearkening back to the prophecy in No Longer You (in which the same chant of his name appears)!

Towards the end of Would You Fall In Love With Me Again, when Penelope sings, "I've been waiting, waiting, for..." she sings "for" with the lead to Odysseus's old motif. This appears whenever the crew sings "Odysseus," (holding the "O"), and also as the guitar intro to Monster. This lead is full of expectation, and musically implies that her next word should be "Odysseus"--finally completing the hanging line from earlier! But no.

Instead, Penelope sings a simple, unadorned, "you."

In this, she is telling Odysseus that no matter who he used to be, or who he is now, the man in front of her is the one she's been waiting for. She has no expectations of what he should do or become. Even his name is unimportant. It's just him--the man she has always loved.

And he's finally home.

[gotstabbedbyapen]

I have very complicated feelings for the Vengeance Saga (after the first listen)

Disclaimer: I will only criticize Epic the Vengeance Saga as a work on its own, not for its inaccuracy or deviation from mythology and The Odyssey. There are more knowledgable people who can point out and analyze the changes in Epic the Musical, but that is not what I'll be tackling here.

To put it bluntly, I'm not being angsty about it as I should. The whole saga just... didn't feel right with me.

Now, first off all, I'm a big fan of Epic and had been following it since the Cyclops saga (first version). I've been in love with many songs and hyperfixed it for months on end. But when the Vengeance saga came along, I didn't feel that same bubbling love rise in me.

Even as a fan, this isn't my first time having peeves with Epic. I didn't jam with the re-release sagas for a while, I'm underwhelmed with the Circe VS Odysseus fight and other issues, very unpopular opinion but "Monster" wasn't too impactful to me, and also the God Games (especially Zeus' attack).

The Vengeance Saga though? Well, they say we gotta do the Bun-Meat-Bun (or whatever the hell its name really is) technique when giving criticism, so I'll start with the good parts.

I love that Odysseus looked so done with Calypso in "Not Sorry For Loving You". They're basically this meme:

Like sorry you're a sad but you're still an abuser 😒

Then Odysseus starts singing the reprise for "Full Speed Ahead" but there's no one to back him up. That one hits me hard. To whoever on Tumblr said that after the Thunder Saga we will never hear the crew's back-up again and Odysseus' singing will be answered with silence, Apollo really blessed you with the red ball.

Hermes and the Winions' part was really cool too! I really like them being mischievous helper! The warning about the wind bag and the changing scene of Odysseus fighting off sea monsters while Hermes just vibing with the beats is 👌👌👌

But after that the hype started to sizzle out for me. You might want to skip this part if you're not comfortable with harsh criticism because I WON'T hold back.

It's really backward but I like the Odysseus VS Charybdis draft more than the final production. Charybdis' roars and music are somehow less intimidating, which is a shame because I thought this would be one of the biggest struggles Odysseus will face. Even with awesome illustrative animatics, the scene wasn't as thrilling as I've expected.

The other songs got massive improvement from its draft version (on top of my mind I can think of "Thunder Bringer", "There Are Other Ways", "Little Wolf"), but I don't get why "Charybdis" didn't get up-graded as much like them. It's like a cake that was throughly baked but half decorated and it just didn't taste as good as I've hoped.

Then we have the Odysseus VS Poseidon part in "Get In The Water" and "Six Hundred Strikes". The first thought I had for GITW is this song sounds like all the draft snippets were mashed together without a smooth transition/connection between them. Jorge and Steven's performance is great, but there's not enough tension for me to dread for Odysseus. When Poseidon first met Odysseus in "Ruthlessness", the whole opening was terrifyingly good! And we didn't even have any illustration animatic back then! (that's not to say the GITW animatics were bad, they just can't salvage much when the song itself was already weak)

I wasn't impressed with Poseidon's Shatter The Ocean move either. It's supposed to be the Strongest AttackTM but it's less scary than when he and the Laestrygonians destroyed Odysseus' eleven ships with probably 1% of their power. It didn't even help when Poseidon looked like he's having a seizure with lights pouring out of his eyes and mouth during the transformation.

Odysseus being literally on the brink of death with the souls of his loved ones pulling him into the abyss is a gem in the rough, but because we've seen Odysseus almost drowning before in the end of the Thunder Saga, it's not as shocking as it should be. Furthermore, Poseidon could have instant-killed Odysseus right then and there but didn't really annoyed me. But I guess he just wanted Odysseus to slowly suffer while dying.

Right when I thought the progress will get better, it... gets down. I can go with Odysseus using wind to escape the water, but him wearing it like a jetpack is so comical it ruined the drastic of the situation. And I'm officially let down when Odysseus FUCKING ATTACKED Poseidon in "Six Hundred Strike".

What? Just... why with that choice?

Look, I'm not gonna fault Epic for making creative liberties from the source material (as said in the disclaimer), but I will criticize if that change contradict itself in the transformative work. And this is one of them.

Poseidon and the gods have been proven time and time again in the musical just how powerful they are. Their ominous and grandiose entrances, them striking fear and inferiority in our hearts just by singing. Even Circe, a low-level goddess, poses a constant threat to the crew and Odysseus had to get help from Hermes just to get a chance to corner her (and Hermes even joked that he can still die!)

Poseidon easily destroyed almost all of Odysseus' fleet. Odysseus was very avoidant of him, opting to go to the literal Underworld to find instruction on how to dodge him and sailing through Scylla's lair + willing to sacrifice six men for safe passage. And when Poseidon said he can drown all of Ithaca, it's not just bluffing, he would and could have done that. Yeah, the King of the Sea is THAT BIG of a threat.

So no, Odysseus isn't cool to attack Poseidon, he's being stupid. I'm not even cheering for him the whole time he fight, just groaning at how ridiculous the whole thing is. If Epic is more believable and sticks to WHAT IT HAD ESTABLISHED BEFORE, having a sudden burst of anger and choosing ruthlessness won't save Odysseus from one swipe of Poseidon's trident. Odysseus stood no chance against one of the most powerful deity, even if he's the protagonist and love his family.

Not only that, Poseidon didn't even defend himself and was wounded by a mere human! And he just sat there and took all the blows and insults from Odysseus??? And he actually begged Odysseus to stop and agree to quell the storm to let him get home??? I'm not buy that bullshit. I'm more upset that a literal Olympian god was nerfed down than Odysseus having a Gary Stu moment. Give me a break, that try-hard moment to be cool and edgy just show how badly written the scene is.

What's the fucking point of hyping up how dangerous the gods are if a human can take one down? Tell me this isn't some Wattpad-y Greek myth retelling fanfic where the teenage Y/N sass her way to defeat an entire pantheon. Epic really traded its opportunity to be better for some cheap and out-of-the-blue dramas in this saga, dare I say it's even worse than Zeus' OOC attack on Athena. I'm very disappointed with that decision.

On an end note, the saga did have one saving point with the "After everything you've done, how will you sleep at night?" - "Next to my wife" lines. Odysseus knew he could be the most horrendous man ever and Penelope would still choose his side, that just show how powerful their love and faith in each other are.

But not enough to excuse all the terrible cinematic choices.

[hecates-corner]

THE VENGEANCE SAGA

🌊 SPOILERS AHEAD 🌊

PLUS, MENTIONS OF S.A.

🔱 NOT SORRY FOR LOVING YOU

Even though Calypso’s actions infuriate me, her actress’ voice (Barbara Wangui) is incredible and so compelling. She sounds like a lotus flower, and just that notion is marvelous, now that I say that. She is the island of the lotus eaters, and I do really like that she isn’t blindly in love with Odysseus.

She can see she hurt him, but she still believes she was in the right. She’s sorry she did all she did, but she wouldn’t take a single moment back. Calypso only admits she’s wrong for “pushing” him. This allusion only shows that she regrets the pain she caused him when she forced him into bed with her, for several years. But does she regret the action?

It’s so well written, an apologist song to make excuses for her. But still, it’s only meant to toy with your emotions. And yet, she doesn’t play the “one song character”, the “tiny plot point”. Jorge gave her pain, and anguish, and loss. He made her seem human, while still holding the godlike apathy and blamelessness.

🔱 DANGEROUS

And onto my favorite song, for the reason alone that it’s a crazy banger with HERMES IN IT! I knew half of this song when it came out, and can lip sync this in my sleep. By the gods, it’s incredible.

Ahem. Right, the analysis. Okay.

Odysseus’ first four of lament in the beginning hurt extra hard when the silence plays out. The crew would have responded… had they lived.

(Anyone else getting nostalgia for last winter from this?? How fast time goes! We have one saga left, and— shoot, right. Ahem ahem.)

And then, the beloved Trickster Lord comes whirling into frame. Dancing. I can just FEEL the light-up floor, the disco ball… you’d think he and Hera would be good friends, huh?

This gives us a little glimpse into Hermes’ lordly self. That he is great with instructions, that he’s almost prophetic with them. He’s not specific, he’s vague, but looking back, you can only go, “OHHHH!” Hermes is a cunning god, and aside from that, he lifts Odysseus’ spirits. He really is Odysseus’ friend.

And then the parallels. To Wouldn’t You Like, to Keep Your Friends Close. Ouch. No, wow. No, scratch that— both.

It makes me wonder if Odysseus “Danger is my middle name” of Ithaca will ever figure out that Athena rooted for him, in the end. Makes me wonder if we’ll hear from Athena again.

🔱 CHARYBDIS

GYATT DAMN. TALK ABOUT INCREDIBLE?!

THIS might be my favorite song, for the typical reasons. You can hear the actions, and when I watched the animatics, it only showed me what I pictured. Perfectly portrayed.

I avoided spoilers for this song, not knowing how good it would be. Damn, am I glad.

Storm parallels, of course. And then, the sheer terror and turn of relief, when suddenly you realize he’s not as close as he thought he was. One last obstacle.

Love the fact that when he sings, “So if you don’t have much to say,” you realize Charybdis won’t be singing. I adored that. This song shows off how smart Odysseus really is.

🔱 GET IN THE WATER

This song is just plain terrifying. It’s scary. It’s cold.

The screaming shakes me to my core. At first, I hadn’t been fully on board (haha) with the choice of Poseidon’s voice actor, and then I took a few more listens to Ruthlessness, and reevaluated that thought. Besides that, he’s quite literally perfect for this song, specifically.

Let me tell you that Steven Rodriguez understood the assignment when he was told to say, “I can’t,” “No,” and “Ruthlessness is … mercy upon … ourselves … DIE!”

Realizing that the line about “gouging [his] son’s eyes” is a cheeky revenge for Polyphemus is incredible. You know what’s funny? Poseidon and Odysseus aren’t so different from each other.

Especially now.

Besides that, oh god, the memories of his loved ones singing into his “final moments” is painful. Thought we’d heard the last of Polites, Jorge? REMEMBER, JORGE?

It’s a double entendre, too. They’re singing to him, telling him to keep going, and yet, they’re telling him that they’re waiting for him, too. Now… some for better, and some for worse.

Will they forgive him the same way he’s forgotten how to do, when he dies?

🔱 SIX HUNDRED STRIKE

Aka, Poseidon discovers the indomitable human spirit.

Let me tell you, hearing the guitar made me gasp. Missed that riff, in all its glory and power, let me tell you. Plus, the wind bag’s theme, too!

This is a boss battle. That’s it. I swear to god, put the instrumental of this banger in Hades by Supergiant.

The screaming in this really made the song. The voice acting. The change of tone. The change of Odysseus’ tone. He’s never been afraid to talk back to gods, has he?

I was only miffed that there was blood on the trident in the animation, and not ichor. But that’s what you get when you’ve been devoted to Greek mythology all of your life, you become an accuracy snob. All in all though, I ADORED that animation. Like… holy shit. Holy FUCKING SHIT!!!

Then, the stabbing and gasping. Poseidon attempting to make him feel bad, second-guess himself, by screaming and calling him a monster.

“Look what you’ve turned me into! Look what we’ve become!” Odysseus KNOWS that he and Poseidon are similar. Fathers willing to defend their honor, and the honor of their sons. However, Poseidon was always defending his own honor, and Odysseus was always protecting the lives of those involved.

And the CHOKING NOISES from POSEIDON??

“After everything you’ve done… how will you sleep at night?”

“Next to my wife.”

AND I GASPED. AND I CHEERED!!!!!!!!!!!

On a much more hilarious note, I saw @justvea18 post a version of this meme as Poseidon. Was giggling my ass off. Go check it out, please.

[eggcats]

I've been listening to the Thunder Saga, and I wonder if Zeus is also asking a question with a right and wrong answer in Thunder Bringer like I think Poseidon did in Ruthlessness. (I have a post for that, but I think Odysseus wasn't supposed to apologize, but to instead acknowledge that he should have killed Polyphemus).

Poseidon had to teach him to be ruthless.

Zeus needs to teach him to stop being so prideful.

Like, yes - Eurylochus did stage the mutiny and killed the cow. But! That was because Odysseus decided not to tell any of his men that they would need to accept 6 deaths to get home and allow them to make the choice themselves - because Odysseus couldn't handle the idea that they might refuse going past Scylla and keep him from going home.

This is even present in the song Scylla. Eurylochus is moved to confess that it was him who opened the bag of winds, but Odysseus keeps his own secrets and guilt to himself. I think none of the men even knew they were going past Scylla at all until it happened, since all Eurylochus says is "something approaches," implying he doesn't know what that something even IS.

Scylla even compares Odysseus to themselves, with his full transformation from man to monster now completed.

You hide a reason for shame You know that we are the same Leaving them feeling betrayed Breaking the bonds that you've made There is no price we won't pay We both know what it takes to survive

But if you notice, once they kill the cow, they start following Odysseus again. Hell, Eurylochus calls him captain! They follow his orders to escape! This shows that their real desire wasn't to overthrow Odysseus, but rather their anger and betrayal at not even having the option to choose to fight over sacrifice.

And honestly, this happened because Odysseus has demonstrated time and again that he will not discuss anything with his men and instead makes decisions without their input (too much pride to ever consider anyone's opinion other than his own).

In Storm, he tries to force the fleets to keep going despite Eurylochus saying that continuing would sink them all. In the same song, Odysseus also decides to go to the wind god without any discussion beforehand, and completely ignores Eurylochus's advice in Luck Runs Out about the inherent danger of going to the gods for help. In this same song, Odysseus also completely ignores the deaths of his men by Polyphemus, and instead brags about none of them dying in the war. (Once again, the pride Zeus mentions, and that Eurylochus criticizes in both Luck Runs Out and Puppeteer).

This is why Eurylochus opens the bag of winds, because Odysseus has proven he can't be trusted to tell him anything that could be important or put their lives in danger. Despite Eurylochus being his second in command, he's never treated as such. Odysseus has never once discussed something with him, taken his concerns into account, made a decision with him together, or even taken his advice. (Even cutting him off as far back as Full Speed Ahead without even considering his opinion).

Odysseus continues to ignore what Eurylochus tries to talk to him about in Puppeteer, and instead unintentionally gets all his men trapped by Circe. He then goes against Eurylochus again in the same song to confront her despite neither of them knowing if she can be defeated. All of this comes to a head when Odysseus does the same thing again in Scylla, except his decision was to intentionally let their men die for his own desires - and Eurylochus had no idea until it had already happened.

And that's why Eurylochus mutinies. He does it because he cares about his men, seemingly more than Odysseus has demonstrated he ever has.

(I'm not saying that Eurylochus has been right this whole time, and honestly I doubt Eurylochus would say the same - but Odysseus won't even listen to what he has to say, is the problem. He has too much pride).

And then Zeus arrives and proves Eurylochus right.

Zeus gives Odysseus a choice - him or his men. Forcing him to come to terms with the very same decision he made during Scylla and expose him for only caring for himself and not the men under his command.

Zeus is criticizing Odysseus and claiming that he's too full of pride to sacrifice himself to save his men. His men of which he is their captain. Of which he is their king. Zeus points this out to him explicitly, leading me to believe that he wasn't supposed to choose himself here.

I think that by taking back command after they killed the cow, Odysseus had taken responsibility for his men's actions. Except, when confronted with those same actions, he refuses to. Much like how a boss gets in trouble when their subordinates do something wrong, a captain should do the same for his crew.

Except. Odysseus doesn't. He fails the test.

And now he must have his pride taken from him again and again until he learns the lesson Zeus was teaching him. Just like he did with learning ruthlessness from Poseidon.

I think the next saga will involve him being confronted with this decision he makes here, and how it was the wrong one, and then the saga after that (perhaps with the suitors? I'm unsure how many more are planned) is when Odysseus will reprise Thunder Bringer and finally be able to return home.

[stupendouspaintblob]

Okay I think this has already been done, but I never saw anyone talk about this. Why do you think Polites' tune when he sings you can relax my friend, we can tell you're getting nervous in get in the water is different from the usual way he sings it? I suppose it could be because Odysseus simply forgot over the years and changes parts of it, which, angsty, i'm not crying you are. OR it's because Odysseus himself has changed as a person and he views those words differently, which is less likely. Or maybe, Polites sound sadder, mournful and resigned, because those words do not have the intended effect on Odysseus anymore. Idk, but it's interesting.

[ghostvibesonly]

“deep down you hide a reason for shame”

Eurylochus shameful that he’s the one who opened the bag while Odysseus was asleep. Odysseus hiding the fact he knew what would happen in Scylla’s lair.

“deep down you know that we are the same”

Eurylochus wanting to escape Circe’s island with Odysseus and leave the rest of the crew behind, letting them die by being eaten as pigs. Odysseus leading six men to their deaths by intentionally handing out six torches. Scylla has six heads

“leaving them feeling betrayed, breaking the bonds that you’ve made”

Eurylochus betraying Odysseus as a second in command (and friend) by openly doubting him and opening the bag when expressly told not. Odysseus breaking Eurylochus’s trust as a captain by leading his crew to the lair and sacrificing six men, six friends, one of them being Eurylochus (until another member of the crew pushes him out of the way and sacrifices themself)

“there is no price we won’t pay”

Odysseus pays the price of Eurylochus choosing to mutinize (and kill the cow) in an attempt to save himself and the crew (the latter although reckless and basically an unintentional death sentence being done so they all wouldn’t starve). Eurylochus (and the crew) pays the price of Odysseus choosing to save himself when Zeus arrives.

“we both know what it takes to survive”

Interestingly, during the mutiny Eurylochus and the crew chose not to kill Odysseus (at least not in the moment) and even bandaged his wounds that they inflicted while he was unconscious to prevent him from bleeding out. In that moment, they chose to show mercy. However, there is no mercy on Odysseus’s end when Zeus tells him to make a choice. There is only ruthlessness done out of desperation, as the only person Odysseus chooses to show mercy to is himself.

Both know exactly what it takes to survive, as Odysseus voice shakes with despair knowing what he’s about to do while Eurylochus, soundly sadly resigned, accepts his fate. There is a brother’s final stand coming to its end and both know it. And they know only one of them will make it out alive

[crystaljellie]

Ithaca saga spoilers!! (me ranting about telemachus) I know i said i'd post this when the livestream comes out but I can't wait i'm too insane about it. The songs have dropped on spotify its good enough...

WHAT DO YOU MEAN WHAT DO YOU MEAN HE LIKE WENT OUT OF HIS WAY, TO SAVE THE SUITORS??? Like okay sure maybe he was like "throw down those weapons" just to convince them to stop and he'd kill them anyways.

But just!?! the idea that these people. these awful people. who hurt him. hurt his mother. dictated most of his life. these people who he's afraid of. he wants to spare them, he WANTS to save them. And mind you!! telemachus is very eager to fight people!! We've seen him in previous songs! we know what he's like. But the fact that he throws that to the side for whatever reason, maybe it's kindness maybe it's something else. maybe it's the fear of seeing them dead maybe he doesnt want to cause his father any more problems.

Maybe its because he doesn't know what he'll do next once it's over.

But he goes out of his way to offer them peace. And not only. do they say no. but then they try to use him as bait to get to his father!?!?

the ONE thing that he wants in life, is to be just like his dad, for his father to admire him, to be LEGENDARY. and now they're attacking him, using him against his father. God and in his eyes he must feel so so pathetic, so useless. He's meant to show his father how strong he is, how he's cool and still worth loving, and now he's being even more of a problem.

And god maybe he's going to die here, and maybe he's okay with that.

But he sounds SO desperate and so scared.

"Get off me! Get off me!" He's only 20, and over a hundred men must be chasing him, stabbing him, hurting him making a show of him. He's so scared and he can't do anything, because he's just one guy.

AND I HAVE BEEN LOOPING THAT PART AND IM SO SURPRISED NO ONE HAS TALKED ABOUT IT YET.

Like the first Get off me, sounds so angry and the second one sounds so afraid, hes not sure he can keep up this charade anymore.

They ARE holding him down, They ARE breaking him. and it's everything he fears.

And then his father shows up. and saves him?? and in a way that makes it even worse for him. because now his fathers first time seeing him. in 20 fucking years, is him pinned down and bleeding thanks to the people he's just let run around in his fathers place.

And then he's expecting his father to be mad at HIM, but he's not?! he's just worried for him, and misses him, and telemachus doesnt know how to process that because just like Odysseus, he is so used to being. alone.

I've literally only seen people talking about Athena showing up in telemachus reunion song with his dad and like??! WHY LOOK AT THE POOR BOY!!! LOOK AT HIM!!! HE'S SO DESPERATE TO SEE HIS DAD!! HE'S SO UNSURE OF HIMSELF AND INSECURE!!

20 years of waiting, and now he finally has a chance, at living this time. He no longer has to wonder, what it would be like to not be alone. He's been through so much, but his life is, really only just beginning.

[that-greek-mythology-girl]

What if the Ithaca Saga, the end of "Would you fall in love with me" ended with Odysseus exhaling "I can relax, my friend" in the same note Polites ended open arms?

What would y'all do THEN?

(Changed a bit of the idea from mrs_superwholock92's tiktok video about the same concept :D)

[a-bottle-of-tyelenol]

I definitely get why people want more screen time with the crew and individual crew members (Perimedes, for example), but I actually kind of like the fact that we don’t know very many of them and we don’t hear any of them by name except Polites and Eurylochus.

(This can be seen as a continuation of this post where I talk about Odysseus seeing himself as above man and, therefore, above his crew.)

I have my own personal headcanon that Odysseus knows each of his men personally and by name, even those not on his specific ship, but I do think that having them as this unknown, unnamed blob of a force reenforces the me vs them conflict that Odysseus has.

Eurylochus is the voice of the crew and it makes sense that the crew wouldn’t bother Odysseus directly with things. He’s busy and it’s Eurylochus’ job to handle the unimportant stuff. But it means that Odysseus is separated from his men in more ways than one. He’s of royal blood (while most, if not all, of his men are not), he’s a war hero that will forever be remembered (while his men will forever be the vague title of ‘Odysseus’ crew’— iirc, this is actually why they open the windbag in the Odyssey, because they don’t think it’s fair that he gets the glory AND riches), and he’s the captain (while the rest of them have to follow his every order even when he refuses to listen to anyone but himself). He is inherently detached and singled out from the rest of the crew that are considered, both by the narrative and by the meta-ness of how EPIC is written, to be one singular entity.

“You relied on wit and then we died on it.”

The crew could’ve said “they died on it”, obviously pointing to Scylla’s victims and maybe even references those who died to Poseidon, but they wouldn’t because they are connected in a way that Odysseus does not relate to. This is, personally, also why I think that Odysseus is wrong when he says that Eurylochus would’ve done the same thing he did. People like to point to Circe’s island to say that Eury would’ve, but I disagree. Circe’s island is something entirely different and context matters here.

Eurylochus would’ve NEVER intentionally sacrificed anyone to get back home. To him, it’s better to have died together— which does add an interesting layer to him hurting Helios’ cattle. If Zeus had posed his ultimatum to Eurylochus instead of Odysseus, Eury would’ve picked himself to die every single time regardless of his own guilt or fault in the situation. And, to be honest, I think a lot of the crew would’ve too. These are selfish men, yes, but they are also men who would rather die of honor as brothers than disgrace themselves, especially because they’d know that getting home alone would be basically impossible anyways.

I bring this up because it’s yet another showing of how Odysseus is set apart from the others. “If you want all the power, you must carry all the blame” isn’t Eurylochus attempting to deflect from what he’s done with the windbag— he already thought Odysseus forgave him/moved on from that. He is specifically commenting on the fact that Odysseus made this decision without consulting any of them— something that Eurylochus didn’t do, with the windbag or on Circe’s island, and would never do because, again, the crew stands as a collective and they, along with the narrative, views each other as extensions of themselves.

The crew is so betrayed by what Odysseus did because they consider themselves to be a family, warriors in arms that will die for each other, and since going to the Underworld, Odysseus just doesn’t understand it. I sincerely believe that, had Odysseus told them and laid out the situation they were in, there would have been six men willing to volunteer themselves if there was truly no other way. Hell, Eurylochus might’ve even been one of them just to get as many of his friends home as possible.

I think that Odysseus is fundamentally different in how he views himself vs the crew and ‘Monster’ put the final nail in the coffin. I doubt it was intentional or anything more than the unfortunate reality that Jorge just didn’t have time or space for more content about the crew, but I think reducing them to a collective that stands behind Eurylochus from Odysseus’ perspective really works. In the early stages of the show, it highlights the foreshadowing within ‘Luck Runs Out’ and, as the show goes on, it really shows how Odysseus refuses to stand with them.

I particularly like that Mutiny’s blocking directions say that Eurylochus looks around at the gore while Odysseus keeps his back to it and the crew. I imagine a lot of scenes where Odysseus’ back can face Eury/the crew and it being symbolic of this dynamic— when the crew is distrustful in ‘Keep Your Friends Close’, when Eury is trying to admit that he opened the windbag in ‘Puppeteer’ and when he actually admits it in ‘Scylla’, when Eury is trying to convince Odysseus not to fight Circe, when he orders them to kill the sirens, when Zeus strikes them all down, ect.

Anyways, I don’t have any real way to end this. I do totally get people wishing there was more an emotional impact on the death of the crew for the audience, but I don’t really think it’s all that necessary and I like the implications that come from demoting the crew into being a singular ensemble entity.

[second-wolf]

So the Ithaca Saga is out the Odyssey has come to a close.

Would You Fall in Love With Me Again, the closing song, is spectacular and the perfect finish to this in my opinion.

I’m not a musician so I can’t really analyze it from the side of things but from a story perspective it’s amazing. Ody doesn’t make any excuses or hide to try his sins- he very easily could do that as everyone else is dead. He could’ve pinned the blame on Zeus or Poseidon. I doubt at least the latter would be inclined to contradict him or even in a condition to try.

He begs Penelope not to remember him as the man he was or to move on with him and not talk about it. He asks her to fall in love with him AGAIN. He recognizes that it has been 20 years. He is not the same. She is not the same. The love they have held is different than when he left.

Then Penelope. She is guarded at first. She knows that this is a different man. Ody even clarifies that in the beginning. She wants it to be him, needs it to, but still she tests him with the wedding bed, the symbol of their love. After he passes she lets herself feel the emotions. Her husband, her missing husband for the last 10 years, as she had probably been kept fairly up to date during the Trojan war if lonely, but afterwards it would’ve been a complete mystery; he is back. She lets herself feel the grief, the joy, the love. On top that the anger. The anger that he would dare try to doubt that she could not love him after all he’s done or that he might be too different. She did not suffer 20 years alone for him to even try and say she might not love him anymore. They promised each other. She has slept on that promise every night. She will love him again and again and again no matter what happens or what storms come.

Jorge, this was a wonderful story. Thank you for these amazing songs and this amazing retelling of an old story.

[urbestestwindgod]

aita for indirectly leading to the deaths of a majority of a mortal’s crew?

so i (30000, gf) am a really cool really fun interesting silly person, so when this mortal (40smth, m) came to me for help going home to his island after ten tears at war and two years at sea, i figured i would make it a game.

now i was pretty clear that this was a game and all he had to do was win for my help. i told him the rules where as follows; just keep the bag closed. he asked the catch and i wasnt just gonna TELL the guy exactly plainly how to win so i cryptically told him to keep his friends close and his enemies closer, told him he never really knew who he could trust—including me, reminded him not to let his crew open it, that he might have to kill some people for this (which i dont see a problem with tbh). finally that the ends always justify the means and that friends become enemies.

so i give him a bag full of the storms and send him back with some of my winions, who then add the challenge of telling his crew that there is treasure inside (which was a lie, hi yea he should of picked up on the liar to liar communication). so i also told him that as the wind god, i give the fire enough to stay burning. im very bored a lot of the time; i wanted to watch this crew fall put of trust with each other for my own enjoyment!!! is that so bad??

so he stays up for nine days straight, i had a great time watching him. and then he finally drifts to sleep like a weak loser and they open it and its a whole oohhh nooo thing, but like, crews fault for believing two small gremlins over their damn captain but whatvr, so then they go to poseidon (brother of my pookie zeus, idn much abt him personally tho) and hes mad abt them blinding his dumb son or smth like that, and he destroys like 11 ships of 50 each (whoops) and now suddenly its MY fault???

well ive been reflecting and my winions and me have been talking and while my friends (zeus, zephyrus, hypnos, etc.) are allll on my side, im just not that sure anymore. so aita?

[epicthemusical]

Why open the bag? KYFC analysis

i did a deeper explanation on why the crew opened the bag and i think i did it pretty well!

people love mentioning how stupid the crew is and i can agree with that only because i know how it ends. the crew didn't have that foresight

There are three main factors that leads to the crew trusting Odysseus:

1 ) He kept all 600 men alive through the war

After he has managed to keep everyone alive it now sets a level of perfection they expect from Odysseus. however they learn that he can indeed make mistakes, ones that led to people dying to the cyclops. they start worrying if they could be next to die if Odysseus makes a mistake.

2 ) Eurylochus steady support

Having a steady second in command is vital to a leader they help keeps things in order and can sometimes even be closer to the troops than the actual leader. Odysseus job was planning and leading leaving little time to really get to know a lot of the crew. Eurylochus is the one they know better and support. As long as he supports Odysseus they will continue following him. This is shown with his "instrument" that represents him is the crews voices. The obviously trust him a lot so when their trust is still shaken from the cyclops Eurylochus OPENLY argues with Odysseus it confirms their fears as valid and makes things even worse. In fact in Puppeteer when Eurylochus says there is something he needs to tell Odysseus it is implied that Eurylochus was going to tell how he had a hand in the bag being opened. maybe not directly but he also didn't stop it.

3 ) Polites trust and optimism

Now in the song they mention how everything has changed since Polites. Now I'm sure Polites bright trusting nature and obvious care for the crew helped them trust in Odysseus. However with Polites dead now it takes away one of the pillars of trust in Odysseus.

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so basically all three of the pillars of trust are shaken Eurylochus went up against him, Polites is dead, and he no longer has a perfect survival record. its not helping that the wind spirits constantly planting doubts and promises of treasure. Overall it is very understandable that the crew lost trust in Odysseus and end up opening the bag.

[cb-writes-stuff]

So, in “Not Sorry for Loving You”, Calypso says “I wish you would chase me / Or try to embrace me / For once, I wish you would lie and say—” And then Odysseus interrupts with “I love you”.

I don’t think she even wanted him to say “I love you”. Or, she did, but that’s not what I think she was going to say. Based on how the rhymes were going, I think she was going to say “For once, I wish you would lie and say you don’t hate me”. She knows (or believes she knows) Odysseus hates her. It’s been seven years and he’s constantly denied her and turned her away, she’s figured that much out. She just wants to hear it, just once, that he doesn’t, even if she knows it’ll be a lie. He’s about to leave, and all she wants—all she’s desperate for—is to be left with anything other than the idea that he’s always hated her and always will. She just wanted to cling to a lie that he didn’t completely hate her.