#endogenic tw

[thehealingsystem]

if you ever wonder why I don't interact with the traumagenic community as a traumagenic system this is why

[the-alarm-system]

SYSTEMPUNK

Systempunk: A term or Subculture surrounding the liberation of plurals and the critique of psychiatry. We're outspoken on how the psych community mistreats us and how we will force the breaking of the chains that continuously fakeclaim or harm us whenever we do something singlets/psychiatrist do not like. We have been silenced and told that if we are open, it is a sign of us lying. We have been forced to follow the strict guidelines of the dsm5 in order to avoid being told that our experiences are false. We have been forced into psychiatric wards and abused because we are not singlet. We have been the face of the liars for too long, plural liberation is something we must push. The future is plural.

ANTI ENDOS AND RADQUEERS DO NOT TOUCH.

Meaning of the flag:

Brown and Black: The POC-bodied systems who are put down by both the community and the society around them. POC-bodied systems who have had their diagnosis's rejected due to their race. POC-bodied systems who have a cultural origin or connection and are hurt because of it. POC-bodied systems who are appropriated by other systems and are not listened to. POC-bodied systems who are hurt by the white dominated psychiatric system. POC-bodied systems who deserve to be heard and understood.

Purple stripe: Endogenic Solidarity, allyship, love, liberation. Endogenic systems are continuously harmed by antis who remain uncritical of psychiatry, are against the liberation of plurals, and deny a plural future in order to push singlethood onto others. Endogenic systems are also used in a lot of fakeclaiming content made by singlets and psychiatrist despite the research that supports their existence. It's because singlet society hates plurals and hates any form of existence we have. Love your endogenic siblings. They are the diverse experiences of plurality, they have helped us through so much.

Yellow Stripe: Disordered and traumagenic system solidarity and liberation. Disordered systems are horribly abused by the psych system, we make up most of those hospitalized and we are put down as too crazy to make our own decisions. Even if our existence is from trauma or a disorder, we shouldn't be forced into a singlet cure, we deserve autonomy.

Pink stripe: Abolition of psychiatric wards used to abuse us, hide us away, and silence us. Our autonomy is stolen from them, we deserve resources that help us instead of force us into a place that fucking hates us.

White stripe: Psych-critical beliefs or Anti-psych beliefs, despite their differences we still stand together against the harms of the psychiatric system. ACAB included in this.

Barbed wire: Anti-fakeclaim culture, systems deserve to be believed. Pro-plural protection. Protect another no matter your beliefs, cops and psych wards fucking hate us and want us dead, protect those you love. protect the closeted, protect all systems.

Fangs: Fight for your existence, be loud about it, write essays, make art, do whatever you can. Force plural liberation down the throats of singlets. Force the future to be plural.

Ampersand: PLURAL PRIDE, PLURAL ACCEPTANCE, PLURAL LIBERATION, PLURAL HISTORY, PLURAL FUTURE

[deityofproendos]

(tw, mentions of religion)

---

Shout out to religious systems!

Shout out to Catholic systems!

Shout out to Christian systems!

Shout out to Jewish systems!

Shout out to Muslim systems!

Shout out to Pagan systems!

Shout out to agnostic systems!

Shout out to atheist systems!

Shout out to Buddhist systems!

Shout out to Hindu systems!

Shout out to systems with their own religion!

Shout out to systems who are any other religion I didn't list!

Shout out to systems who are all collectively one religion!

Shout out to systems who have different headmates with different religions!

Shout out to systems with religious trauma!

Shout out to spiritual systems!

Shout out to systems who's religion is intertwined with their plurality in some way!

Shout out to systems who's religion isn't intertwined with their plurality at all!

Shout out to religious systems!

[thecovenofcrows]

No way anti-endos go “Endos and supporters DNI” and then put “anti good faith identities DNI” and don’t even consider that they’re anti good faith identities themself.

no way.

[syllvarin]

Non-traumagenic plurality: How could it be possible?

First off, let's start with what some anti-endo folk mean versus what they don't mean with traumagenic plurality

They mean systems caused by/as a response to trauma and traumatic events, and those who are still affetced by them, aka systems who are disordered, DID/OSDD/UDD.

What they don't mean is systems who have trauma in their origin along with other causes. They do not believe a system can very well be traumagenic but function smoothlessly due to recovering, or have multiple origins.

Note: We are a diagnosed DID system with mixed (trauma/ramcoa/neuro/para) origins. Yes, we know what we are talking about. No, that doesn't mean we can't do mistakes, but we will try our best to be as accurate as possible. We will include scientific articles, DSM-5 DID checklist, and many more in this post.

How can that be possible?

1st: Brains are quite complicated. Research on brain functions is far from being complete, it is a long road that we are still at the very beginning of. We still don't know how brain exactly works let alone how it can form seperate conscious identities and work them together. We do know headmates exist based on brain MRI's ( link here ) That proves us that systems indeed, exist.

2nd point i want to make is that science is not done in a linear fashion. We are studying to be neuroscientists ourselves and the very core of what makes science doable is MONEY. Yes, in this capitalist system even the most seemingly basic research requires funding, money, and a goal that can be monetized to get done. Reseaches on female autonomy, rare disorders and "demonized" disorders such as DID is therefore not often as it is not easily capitalized and funded.

Therefore we do not have enough research to prove or disprove that the only way of becoming a system is through childhood.

And that brings me to my 3rd point, where we will take a look at what DSM-5 (The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fifth Edition) says about diagnostic crietria of DID. We will see how it is a dissocative disorder, not a trauma disorder.

Found under dissociative disorders (not trauma disorders!), checklist for DID is as follows:

See how none of those checklist include trauma as checklist? Yes DID is commonly caused by trauma but not always. Yes it commonly is created during childhood but not always. Those arent in diagnostic criteria.

Definitive feature is not trauma, it is distinct personality states or experience of possession.

DID is associated with traumatic events, does not mean it requires it.

DID can manifest at almost any age (DSM-5 is saying that, folks)

What's more is OSDD doesnt even have a definitive checklist like DID. it is found under differential diagnosis, with other disorders. PDID (partial DID where one part is frontstuck a majority of the time) is also up to psychiatrist's evaluation rather than a concrete checklist.

4th point is : What about Structural Dissociaton Theory?

This theory is as it goes: The theory of Structural Dissociation works off of the assumption that everyone is born with different ego states that later merge in life. Those different ego states operate for different actions in life, that later integrate into one person during ages of 4-6. Trauma disrupts that integration and causes ANP (apparently normal parts) and EP (Emotional parts). EP's are stuck in the trauma while ANP's are not.

source: The Haunted Self: Structural Dissociation and the Treatment of Chronic Traumatization" by Onno van der Hart, Ellert Nijenhuis, and Kathy Steele. 

Yes, theory. Theories are not concrete. They can be disapproved, they can change, they may not fit every experience. Structural dissociation only explains how DID can manifest at childhood, but we already know by now that DID can manifest at almost any age.

So I personally think basing everything on a theory about how DID might've been caused (which doesn't even perfectly explain every possible way) is not as fault-proof as one might think it is.

Point 5: experiences of "multiple identities" exist for so long into history (people who are possessed, talk to themselves, act weird at times, are very different at times, etc), way before any DID/OSDD terms were created. And actually, how can we know how many people in history have had this experience when the very society we are in is very scared of them? It is fair to say only the disruptive cases must've been noticed, and majority of them probably were either deemed as crazy or exorcised as they believed those people were possessed by spirits. Just because your experience does not fit with others and just because science hasnt done anything to back them up, doesn't mean people's lived experiences are false. Why would so many people tell that they are a system when they are not? We are not living in a place where being a system is happy or fun, we are not in a society where its profitable or anything. It literally gives a person zero + points for being plural if they arent. It would be a nonstop roleplay they have to keep up throughout every aspect of their life; and at that point, it must be either impossible or that person is already plural and not roleplaying when no one is looking at them.

Creating headmates is on the same basket. A person with DID can create headmates in blink of an eye (we know from oursleves) sometimes splitting threshold is so low you may split off multiple people at once. You cannot know what is going in a person's mind, and what mechanisms work for creating a headmate. If they claim they did, it is very much no chance they are faking being different people 24/7. It *is* a real chance that they actually did develop a headmate. If you do not believe them; ask them about their experiences. I am %100 positive that if you actually listen to them, you will see those people are only trying to live their life.

Also, if you think healthy systems cannot exist and only way to be a system is through dissociation and dysfunction; then why would DID systems try to heal anyway? Wouldn't that just be sanist and ableist to expect all of them to turn into singlets because healthy multiplicity isnt a thing?But no, it is a thing, and healthy multiplicity and recovery is possible for systems. DID and other disordered forms of plurality do indeed exist, and they are indeed, treatabe in multiple ways according to what a person feels comfortable with. That is also a system's right to heal however they please. They don't owe anyone their right to stay as plural or become a singlet.

6th point I want to make is about: Why do we even care?

If a person says they have multiple people in their head, why do we care and tell them they are faking? They are not claiming to have a diagnosis, even if they did; if their situation is causing a distress to them, then they ARE diagnosable and that therefore is none of our business, again.

Last point I want to make is how endogenic DID is possible. yes, possible. remember how trauma is not in diagnostic criteria and DID can happen at any age? If endogenic plurals can happen, they can also form DID at later in life. They can also become disordered due to an event in their life. They can lose harmony and become so dysfunctional they need professional help. That doesn't mean they are no longer endogenic or some other origin, that simply means their state is different than what it was and they need help.

End of our post. Thank you for reading.

[w31rdm4g3dd0n]

I swear if I see an anti-endo say endogenic systems are claiming a trauma disorder when they're not, I'm going to scream. Like, yes, some endogenic systems do, but that's because they also have trauma?? Nobody is claiming you can have a trauma-based disorder without trauma, they're claiming plurality without a disorder.

I'll always say this:

Every disorder has a non-disordered counterpart. If it doesn't cause distress or affect at least one major area in functioning, it's not a disorder. This includes stuff like DID. Plurality is not a disorder, but DID is.

-Vito

[virovirokun-has-adhd]

email written by the author of the DSM-5

taken from SAS(@\sysmedsaresexist)'s post

i have no comments

Edit 30/7/24: added link to the post in question

[cccat-in-a-meat-sack]

Top three most insane end0 posts I've ever seen:

This one needs no explaining

It's the last paragraph, plus the "resetting" the system part (PROGRAMMED SYSTEM TERM)

Also needs...no explanation

[candy-bun-bun]

I just wanted to say something on this as this has weighed on me and my systems mind as people including ourselves say these statements.

______

"I can't consume this media because I'll get an introject from it"

. . .

"I can feel that I'll get an introject if I watch this media, so I won't watch it 😭"

______

It seems that the plural community struggles to accept that it's ok to get more members? I'm not very good at expressing myself so I apologize if anything doesn't sound particularly (for lack of a better word) 'right'.

There's nothing wrong with gaining more members.

I feel that these statements I mentioned earlier are rooted in the ideas of fake claimers that fake claim systems over their member count like the amount of people in a system makes them any less valid. Obviously we are all somewhat aware that the amount of people in a system doesn't make them more real than any other system.

Now that being said, it is ok to not want to gain more members. I am not saying that you should aim to gain as many members as possible but what I am saying is that you should feel no shame in gaining more members. Fake claimers beat down and silence systems who don't fit their specific standards.

You are a valid plural no matter what any plural or non plural says about you. You should feel no shame for having more than the "normal" or "right" amount of headmates.

Feel free to add anything in the notes

- Scholar/Jon + He/Eye/Paper 🍵

[heavens-roses]

Octocon and RAMCOA survivors

pt: octocon and RAMCOA survivors

cw: RAMCOA, number names

Felt I should share this as I haven't really seen it talked about in system or RAMCOA spaces. When you use Octocon your parts will be attached numbers to each part based off who was created first. While it's likely due to how to code the easiest. it is important to remember that if you are a survivor who has parts who were forced to be called a number, are a survivor who was called a number collectively/bodily, forced to refer to others as numbers or has any trauma related to number names please tread carefully.

I know as a survivor it can be extremely scary not being able to control your name or having anxieties related to not being called your number too. Please know you are not forced to use Octocon just because other people are using it. If plural kit or simply plural work best for you than keep using them. You do not need to switch over and risk your own mental health. Being a survivor who was dehumanized to numbers is horrible and whether you decide to reclaim your trauma or are healing by moving away from it know your triggers are valid.

Know you are never alone in healing your trauma and note this post is for education. This is not to bash in the creators of Octocon nor is it to tell you how to feel about the app/bot. At the end of the day how you find support with yourself is for only you and your system to decide. With thet being said do not interact with this post if you are pro/neu-endo / believe in any form of "plurality" outside of being trauma based. If you are a questioning system, a cdd system who is syscourse unaligned or apathetic you are more than welcome to repost and interact.

[lemony-ink]

Today in "please remember that words mean things":

I saw an endo comparing systems with "endos dni" to fascists.

Fascist doesn't mean "person I don't like" and you're doing their job for them by watering down the term

[altosys]

i hate the pipeline of "what is your stance on endos?" to "do you support the hypothetical concept of endogenic plurality?" to "do you think endogenics should be allowed to find safe spaces?" to "how do you personally feel about endogenic systems (because this will change the course of history in the plural community as we know it for the rest of time)?"

like no. no no no. remind me why we're debating others' identities again? we as a community have so much infighting that we're not even paying attention to the real issues: FDC, ableism + sanism in the psychiatric industry towards plurals, and most importantly *making a safe space for plurals in the world.*

listen. "what do i think of the endos?": i don't give a shit. genuinely. i couldn't care less about someone's system origin. it's not that big of a deal. like, if you're traumagenic, endogenic, quoigenic, neurogenic, cool cool. but as someone who Could Not Give Less Of A Fuck, i will not be debating your identity/ies.

[catofproendos]

When the tyrannical King declared war on the endogenics and all their supports, a new kingdom rose from the ruins.

It started with just one person, a lone Queen, but very quickly expanded as more people joined to fight for the safety of themselves and others. To fight for what was right.

When the old king found out, xe was furious, and sent xis troops to attack the rising kingdom.

But the attack did not succeed, for the power of acceptance and kindness is far more powerful than that of hatred.

We shall always win, it doesn't matter who sends the armies after us, we will always rise from the ashes.

(possible lore concept for the pro endo court, I wrote this instead of writing my DnD campaign, tell me what y'all think!)

[sysventing]

it’s so hard being a fictive-heavy system sometimes… we have 17 fictives at last count, and i’ve been anxiously worrying over them near constantly. or uh. less of themselves specifically and more about how people treat them. some people just get so… weird about it! please, stop idolizing them because they’re your favorite character! we’ve had multiple people genuinely get upset at us because our fictive sysmates don’t closely align with THEIR OWN HEADCANONS??? THAT THEY ARE PROJECTING ONTO US FOR??? SOME REASON?

this isn’t even scraping the surface! we’ve had people get so condescending about their identity to their source, whether they still identify with it or not! someone once attempted to force one of our sysmates to completely separate himself from his exomemories when he hadn’t even existed for a day, and it nearly sent him into a dangerous spiral that would’ve ended with us hurt! can people PLEASE be normal to fictives for once?? would it kill them to be respectful and kind for once??

.

[ribombee-lapidarym]

Can't think too hard about our own plurality or we might have a mental breakdown

Like, who are we at any point? We blend so much and so easily it's not even just our default state, we're never anything else

Does who we were still exist? Did they ever? Who am I? Am "I" one of these facets? Am I a shell? Am I the remnant of who we used to be, the original, or just another headmate?

[forget-meabh-not]

it boggles me that there are anti-Endos who also are in IFS therapy ,,

like what huh how.. IFS litteraly says that like everyone is naturally multiple/ has the possibility to be plural.( plural IS an opt-in label and we are not trying to say everyone is plural / has to identify as such ^.^ !!! )

in the IFS book it literally says that plurality isn’t a disorder I’m sorry but being anti endo and in IFS therapy is bizarre since you obviously are not actually following the therapy ???

( this is comeing from someone who in the past has been in IFS therapy for a year and continues to view things with the IFS mindset. We also have listened to the most recent IFS book. )