#disclaimer i do not ship all of these people

[a-most-beloved-fool]

If Spock and Jim merged into one being (no euphemism here lol) like Tuvix, what do you think the personality of the new being would be like? What impact do you think that would have had on the lives of both of them after they separated again? I love your headcanons, thanks for the answers!

thanks for the question!! <3

Hmmm... I think they would work pretty well as one being, actually. I'm thinking about all of those quotes from Roddenberry about how Kirk and Spock were supposed to represent two halves of a whole person, so I have to assume that they would be quite content. Though, disclaimer as I continue: I have not yet seen any of Voyager - there might be aspects of Tuvix's combination that I don't take into account because I don't know they exist. If so, uh, sorry. My bad.

For the sake of avoiding confusion, I'll call the merge Kirok (after the name Kirk chose when he lost his memories in The Paradise Syndrome). (Also, I fear that calling him "Kock" would have... deleterious effects on the readability of this post... for no reason at all...)

I do think that Kirok would, overall, have the best parts of Kirk and Spock. Combined, they are tactically fearsome. With Kirk's intuition and understanding of people and Spock's knowledge of statistics and science, Kirok is brilliant. However, I do think that Kirok would be a worse captain in practice than if Kirk and Spock simply had a mental bond. Part of the brilliance of Kirk and Spock as a command team is that, while they very much respect one another and take the other's opinion into account, they do also. regularly ignore each other's advice. And this is usually to their benefit! They each take risks that the other wouldn't, and, often, it saves them (in part because they always back each other up, even when doing things they don't agree with. Spock will be like "this is unwise" and Kirk will say "maybe, but I'm doing it anyways" and Spock will just... go with it.). But, if they were one person, I think that impulsiveness would be tempered. The Kirk part would have a brilliant idea, the Spock part would say "wait, there is too much risk, we can make a better plan," and then Kirok would lose his chance to act. When they're separate people Spock is ride-or-die for all of Kirk's decisions, but when they're one person, the Spock half won't always allow those decisions to be made at all (and also won't necessarily be able to tell when he does need to rein things in a bit). (Also Kirk and Spock both tend to be reckless, and then rely on the other to save them - as Kirok, who would back him up when he needed it? Bones would, but he's a medical officer. He simply can't do everything they would have. And, no matter how good of a first officer Kirok got (probably Sulu?), they couldn't be that good.)

I also think that Kirok wouldn't be quite as at ease with his position on the ship as Spock and Kirk individually were. The Spock part of him loves science far too much to just abandon it. He wants to spend time in the labs! He wants to make discoveries! Likewise the Kirk part of him can't truly be anything but a Captain. So, Kirok stays a captain, but he's less passionate about it (or, rather, more passionate about things that aren't it). This doesn't actually affect Kirok's satisfaction - it just affects his performance and relationships with others. He might spend off-duty time working on science experiments (which he can no longer do during shift, due to captaining) and neglect forming bonds with his crew, and he might place more focus than usual on scientific discovery missions.

As for the crew... Well, it's not as weird of a change as they expected. As expected, Kirok is less outwardly friendly than Kirk, and more outwardly friendly than Spock, but he's - cohesive. He still feels like their commanding officers. His humor tends to be a bit drier than Kirk's was, but he's a very compassionate and reasonable captain. (Tbh I tend to think that Kirk is actually more of a hardass than Spock (people just assume Spock is worse due to being Vulcan), so some crewmembers are surprised when Kirok is more lenient about certain things than Kirk would have been. Not lenient about cruelty or anything genuinely important to the safety of the ship, but about other things.) But, he's still not as good at making personal connections as Kirk was, and he's still inclined to spend too much time in the labs, so things aren't perfect.

Really, I think that the person having the worst time of things would be Bones, lmao. He'd have to deal with his Best Friend suddenly being the same person as The Guy He Affectionately Antagonizes (totally not a friend no how could you even think that). I think he'd be more lost than anyone else about how to address Kirok. Is this Kirk, his old friend, who he can be truly comfortable with, or is this Spock, who he snipes at and who snipes at him in turn? Who can he turn to, when the man he normally approaches for comfort is now the same being as one he doesn't want to seem too weak in front of? Does he turn to anyone else, in the meantime, or does he weather it alone?

Kirok himself, though, is actually pretty okay with the change. The different parts of himself simply - mesh well together. It's very satisfying for him, if not for his career and those around him. There's some minor bits of tension, especially regarding changes in biology and telepathic status, but, for the most part, he's doing well. The things you might expect to be major points of tension somehow... aren't. They compromise remarkably easily. (No meat, yes logic, no emotional suppression, yes casual touching, no casual relationships, yes meditation, etc.) And the Kirk and Spock parts of him both enjoy the closeness, the sense of knowing they now have for one another. They're one person, and know themself completely as they've always longed to know each other completely. (he does miss playing chess against someone who could beat him, though!)

Now, because I am Spirk-brained, I also think there's potential for Kirok to have Very Confused Feelings about discovering that the two parts of himself each had secret feelings for the other prior to the merge. There could be this odd sense of loss - like, yes, they are now technically one with one another, but they also completely missed out on their shot at a romantic relationship. They mourn what they could have had. The Spock part, especially, mourns the potentially for a telepathic bond (because with how smoothly they've integrated with one another, it surely would have been a strong one). So, as much as Kirok does enjoy existing as Kirok, I think he might be more willing to attempt separating back into two parts than I believe Tuvix was.

And, when they're two separate people again, they both feel like they're missing some part of themself, even once they've begun their new romantic relationship - but quickly discover that a mental link between them fills that hole. (And then, of course, because they are hopeless and in love, the "medicinal mental link" very quickly just becomes a marriage bond. They're like "well, we've already been one person and liked that well enough... a marriage bond is hardly anything different!" To Spock's endless pleasure, they are highly compatible and have a remarkably strong bond.) The mental link also allows them to have the same quick reaction times and combined brilliance of Kirok without the negative side effects of their own individual strengths being tempered. (they're also like. annoyingly codependent for a bit after Kirok's separation. oh boy are they always touching. "it gives them emotional security." bones looks at them in disgust (he loves it).)

Or, if we wanted to be McSpirk-brained... I'm enjoying the imagery of Kirok (who both had crushes on Bones as well as on one another) just directing all of that missed romantic potential onto Bones, who is... like, he's not not into it (Kirk was hot, Spock was hot, ergo Kirok is hot), but he also misses and loved his Original friends, and so he is very torn between accepting Kirok's advances and trying to find a way to split them apart again. (Flustered Bones, flustered Bones!! I do love flustered Bones!! He is blushing and stammering and having multiple ethical crises all at once. They never covered this in Starfleet Medical...) He also doesn't quite know whether Kirok's feelings truly belonged to both Kirk and Spock or not, and doesn't think that Kirk or Spock would truly act on it if they were in their normal state, so a small selfish part of him wonders if that's the only chance he has to be with them (even if it's not quite the same 'them' he fell in love with). And then, of course, there's the fear that trying to get back the original Kirk and Spock will actually just kill them! Yeah, poor Bones has a rough time of things. But, when everything is fixed, he does still wind up getting two boyfriends out of it. It all works out in the end?

[forsoobado137]

so for the nation revealed au, ik you mentioned that some ppl are weird about shipping the nations/crossing boundaries in general. I'm not sure if in terms of familial connection that America and England are more like father & son or brothers in ur au. And I'm not even sure if you write them as treating each other that way in modern days but I think it's safe to say you aren't writing them as any kind of romantic. so how do you think they would feel/react when confronted with the reality that there are many ppl out there who DO view their relationship as having potential for romance/sexual affairs? how would nations that are *firmly* family react? (btw hi! hope ur day is good, love ur page!)

I'm glad you like my page! Yeah, I don't think they would enjoy the shipping at all. I think they have a familial/platonic relationship. (DISCLAIMER: I DON'T HATE USUK IF YOU SHIP IT GOOD FOR YOU)

England just hates being shipped in general. It's a huge boundary cross for him, especially considering the nsfw stuff. If a ship about him is brought up, he'll angrily declare how much he hates it. Unfortunately, that doesn't do much to stop people. Some people even get angry at HIM for daring to not like shipping. He sees America as his son, so extra yikes points for incest.

America only likes ships when he finds them funny and it's not smut. Like if America found a fic about him being shipped with Denmark, he'd laugh his ass off reading it. But since he sees England as his kinda-sorta-dad, He finds usuk weird. He just happily avoids it and pretend it doesn't exist. If it's brought up, he'll try to change the subject and move on.

[allamericanb-tch]

marauders era ships as taylor swift songs

wolfstar — cardigan ; style ; the 1 ; champagne problems ; question…? ; the way i loved you ; the great war ; afterglow ; renegade ; last kiss ; wildest dreams

jegulus — haunted ; midnight rain ; right where you left me ; ivy ; speak now ; all of the girls you loved before ; gorgeous ; i know places ; safe & sound ; gold rush ; i can see you ; enchanted ; foolish one

prongsfoot — seven ; it’s nice to have a friend 

moonwater — the archer

jily — lover ; labyrinth ; paper rings ; everything has changed 

dorlene — don’t blame me ; peace ; slut!

rosekiller — cruel summer ; bigger than the whole sky ; i knew you were trouble ; wonderland ; red

marylily — you belong with me ; long story short ; daylight ; glitch

fralice — this love ; love story ; you are in love

snily — tis the damn season ; exile

[dykedvonte]

I hate the stretch lines in the front of Curly's uniform because that means the devs rushed to make a model in like a month or so and thought "They gotta at least know he has huge knockers, gotta know he's got back pain." Cause like what is the thematic importance of his tits having overhang?

What responsibility is that representing? Breast reduction? It shows an inherent greed in his character due to the excess and heshouldletmeholdone and that he clearly is blinded cause if he tries to look down his damn ladder all he's seeing is his own cleavage.

[altschmerzes]

omgggg shipping is not arophobic in the LEAST but keep making us look like whiners with no real problems by continuing to complain about it I guess

yeah that's definitely what i said in any post ever man great job

average person who has made shipping their entire identity will see a post where someone says 'hey please don't say these specific types of things that are degrading and cruel about nonromantic relationships while enjoying your ships and maybe examine the thought processes and beliefs and prejudices that led to saying them' and be like 'oh so you're a whiner with no real problems who thinks shipping is arophobic?'

telling on yourself there bud

[captain-space-kin]

I know this is like a “no harm no foul” situation and people are free to do whatever, but y’all we do not need to go through and find + name every single possible ship/character combination. Especially for characters who haven’t even shown up on screen yet. Like it is cool that we get to see and participate in the creation of ship names and all that, but trying to force a dynamic between characters for the sake of thorough cataloging kind takes the fun out of it idk (also, and this is coming from someone who really likes shipping, not every character needs to be shipped etc etc).

After talking with some friends about it one do them did point out that (and paraphrasing here) that it kinda feels like people are trying to brute force another Citrus to happen. But the thing is we already have Citrus, we don’t really need another.

Like I get why people are doing this, it is fun, especially when it’s a community wide effort, but it feels very clinical to me.

Obligatory not a call out, not saying anyone doing this is committing a moral failure, etc etc warning

[fitzrove]

iwtv youtube comments intended to be derogatory about my beautiful princess who never did anything wrong but that accidentally just make me like him more

[seaweedstarshine]

*Poll inspired by typical ambiguity in the new audio story Victory of the Doctor, which on an unrelated note is amazing!

Evidence for each argument beneath the cut!

Open marriage

The Doctor's wedding to Marilyn Monroe occurs in A Christmas Carol, when he storms off to a chapel with lipstick marks on his face. “I’ll just go and get married then, shall I? See how you like that. Marilyn? Get your coat!”

While he wasn't yet with River then, he maintains this relationship afterwards, apparently with River involved. In the mini-episode Good Night, the Doctor enters the TARDIS with a euphonium, calling over his shoulder, “River! I’ll see you later! Tell Marilyn she’s too late, she’ll have to use the biplane. Take care!”

Another piece of evidence comes from The Wedding of River Song, when they're passive-aggressively flirting.

“Hallucinogenic lipstick. Works wonders on President Kennedy. And Cleopatra was a real pushover.” “I always thought so.” “She mentioned you.” “What did she say?” “Put down that gun.” “Did you?” “Eventually.” “Oh, they're flirting. Do I have to watch this?” (from Kovarian)

I've never understood the innuendo (please tell me what I'm missing), but Kovarian does, and as we know from The Husbands of River Song, the Doctor and River are both married to Cleopatra, so… it's definitely something.

There's also that diary page in The Eternity Clock game that suggests the Doctor, River, and Jim the Fish got blackout drunk at karaoke night and started “some sort of religion of love” which went on to last for centuries.

Serial cheaters

“How can you be engaged, in a manner of speaking?” The Doctor is jealous in Flesh and Stone before he's even kissed her, which doesn't set him up as a person who'd be interested in an open marriage.

“No, wait. That's your husband? That's who you're married to? Not anybody else?” In The Husbands of River Song, the Doctor is clearly not expecting the other husbands. Culminating in the same episode…

“So, King Hydroflax?” “Oh, how many times? I married the diamond!” “So you say.” “Elizabeth the First!” “Ramone!” “Marilyn Monroe!” “Stephen Fry!” “Cleopatra!” “Same thing!”

It appears he is well aware of her other spouses (and that she's aware of his); so perhaps his surprise was more that didn't expect her to be so flagrant about them. It makes him insecure (“I posed as his nurse. Took me a week.” “To fall in love?” “It's the easiest lie you can tell a man. They'll automatically believe any story they're the hero of.”) enough to start an argument about it.

River also expresses her jealousy as an obvious fact, as seen in The Day of the Doctor Novelization (written by Moffat who (along with Alex!!) knows the character best):

“Ow!” “Madame de Pompadour?” “Jealous?” “Of course I’m jealous. Keep your hands off her.”

In The Name of the Doctor, we learn that the Doctor, who has had a number of... sexually-charged moments with Clara (including, but not limited to, Victorian Clara), has avoided telling her that River is his wife. Vastra is uncomfortable with having to introduce them, having “gone a darker shade of green.”

“The Doctor might have mentioned me?” “Oh, yeah. Oh yeah, of course he has. Professor Song! Sorry, it's just I never realized you were a woman.” (from Clara)

Actually both

This could mean many things (i.e. open marriage with boundaries which are violated), but potentially, all the same evidence from prior arguments! With a shade of “Our lives are back to front.”

In the mini-episodes First Night/Last Night, when River, having burst into the TARDIS and pretended to faint, mistakes her past self for another woman the Doctor's hiding from her, she openly expresses jealousy.

“Doctor. Have you brought someone else here? Does anyone agree to wear that dress? Where is she!” “River, think it through!” “This happened the last time we were here. You brought someone else!” “No I didn’t!” “Yes you did, I heard you talking to her!”

However, when a third and significantly older version of River makes the same mistake, she no longer expresses jealousy, but rather curiosity, which could at least signal a shift in how she sees their marriage.

Maybe there was a conversation that happened. Maybe it slipped the Doctor's mind when he forgot Clara.

Actually neither

This could also mean multiple things, but one of those things is this. The Doctor is a widower from the start. Likewise, River is well aware of Doctor's death on Trenzalore, “of course River would know, she's always known,” having been raised to prevent those events, and having refused to be bound by that destiny.

How can fidelity be defined the same way for time travelers? Everyone's spouses are dead somewhen. River understands the paradox of her husband's existence better than anyone. To quote The Day of the Doctor Novelization yet again…

‘Because you live in a time machine. All of history is still happening outside those doors. On a good night that means everyone you ever met is still alive and you can’t wait to see them again. On a bad night, it means everyone’s dead, and you want to charge around the universe, pretending you can do something about that.’ She looked up at me. ‘I know which version of you I prefer.’ 

And there she was, so alive again. I remembered her, twisted, burnt and dead, in the depths of The Library. ‘What if there are people who died because of me?’ I asked. ‘What if there are people I should have saved?’

‘People die. All people, everywhere. We grieve and we move on. That is how we respect the dead. That is how we forgive ourselves in their presence and their absence.’

Please feel free to add anything I missed!

[jessicas-pi]

it's actually, genuinely, honestly hilarious that in a fandom where popular ships include characters who are biologically related, characters with a 10+ year age gap who met when one was a teenager or even a child, and characters who have tried to kill each other, people hate on a friends-to-lovers ship with a <2 year age gap where the characters have a deep emotional bond and plenty of romantic subtext, because "they're siblings". my brother in the force they are literally not.

[frizzle-mcshizzle]

How do you feel about LinhxSophie? Iv'e seen it being talked about more, along with Lava Cake, and I want to know whay you think. I don't really get it but I think their friendship is cute.

i remember it being popular years ago, it was like the kotlc lesbian ship for a while there

as far as im aware it comes from the fact that Sophie calls Linh pretty in the books...and thats it? i guess? (like all the boys wow at her too and i don't see them shipped with her often at all so...) (i don't understand 90% of Linh ships though) i do know that it's probably returning because of solinh week happening and people are thinking about it again.

i have to agree i do think their friendship is cute, Linh is pretty Aroace to me, i don't feel like she would be the kinda of character to get into a relationship (except for maybe with Marella). honestly i don't either of the twins would care to much about relationships, even though i ship tiana i think they would keep it private.

as for lava cake, i don't ship them but their friendship seems interesting, ill admit that, but i don't really think about those two enough to have coherent thoughts about them. its just kinda the ship my mutuals are obsessed with that i like to sit on my porch with some candy while i watch them write their fics and headcannons in the yard. i like to watch people have their fun!!

[milfbrainrot]

im so glad i cleared out so many of my old posts bc i remember listening to this podcast while still in Performative Fandom Mode and god that must've made me unbearable.

like i remember making a post about maxwell once bc she was my blorbo but also being like "oh no im a bad person for liking her, better preface this by saying she's a bad person so people don't think i excuse her actions!" and then someone got mad at me about it and i was so confused bc what do you mean im not supposed to do that on the callout post walk on eggshells website

[tokencisgirl]

i'm not sure if i really want more online friends outside of the people already inside my circle atp honestly because tldr; Discourse

[ourflagmeansgayrights]

also every blackhands shipper who has ever called their ship a rarepair owes me financial compensation. im knocking on every door in the fandom rn and begging people to accept frenchie/ed into their hearts

[kokoinupi]

not to sound heteronormative or whatever the fuck but i LOOVVEE ships where one man is very masc and butch and stoic and the other man is like a sexy little trophy wife. wearing fancy pretty sparkly clothes and leaning on his arm and sitting across his lap... the trope of a woman who's just an accessory to make her man look good, except its gay.

[amorremanet]

.

Happy Monday, this Barbie is seething in her corner because her fellow westerners insist on being ignorant jackasses about going “wAaAaAH, BuUuUuUuT iT’S iIiIiIiNcEsT!!!!1” with regard to Chengxian/Xiancheng, a ship that:

1. literally is not, by any definition, incest;

2. hugely affects the plot of its story in several ways that are directly related to it NOT being incest;

and 3. has several explanations about why it IS *NOT* incest out there, across multiple platforms, written by fans who actually know Chinese, don’t have to engage with the text exclusively in translation, and have a much stronger understanding of the cultural normas and nuances at play in this relationship than us westerners, who can read and learn and try to do better about checking ourselves while engaging with CN texts, but will likely always be, to some extent, projecting western ideas onto them

but………y’know, sure, whatever. If it makes you happy to completely flatten a deeply complex and nuanced relationship into “everything about them is Normal Sibling Behavior and that’s literally all it will ever be,” despite both CN fans explaining why that’s wrong and the text itself offering multiple examples to the contrary, then hey, be my guest (ﾉ◕ヮ◕)ﾉ*:･ﾟ✧

[dreaminginmysoup]

this is potentially the hottest take that I have that I'll make public, but you all doing the ship tiers and putting ANYTHING in the "Don't ship it and can't see it" bracket are weak