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ivoryand-gold · 4 months ago

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Epic The Musical Reaction: Thunder Saga ⛈️⚡️⛈️⚡️⛈️⚡️

SO many thoughts and feelings after the Troy & Cyclops Sagas (Jorge’s Version) and THUNDER SAGA. this is a LONG one, but i’ve put what i can put into words, so here my initial 24 hour-post release reaction! Spoilers galore ahead!

TROY

THE HORSE AND THE INFANT

the ensemble is *chef’s kiss*

i love how gentle Jay’s voice is when he’s singing “penelope” and “telemachus”

the battle clashing is so good!!

overall Luke’s voice is a little softer and feels less thunderous than og so i wonder if that was to contrast thunder bringer? not a complaint just an interesting choice!

don’t love the change to “i don’t think you’re ready” but the rest of zeus’ part is gorgeous

he sounds like a kid pleading, making thunder bringer even sadder when he does it again later 😭😭😭

JUST A MAN

instrumental has a chokehold on me and Jay’s vocals are so smooth

“the view” drop is a lovely choice

😭😭😭 “who’s fighting for his life” 😭😭😭

THE STRINGSSSSSS

od’s first “im just a man” being so soft and now in comparison to eurylochus’ version is devastating

FULL SPEED AHEAD

i like how Jay’s voice starts soft and builds power as he’s shaking the guilt of the infant in order to lead his men again

Armando is just so solid. truly the most consistent and solid vocals, which is perfect for the purpose his character serves in the first act of the story

i love every once in a while Jorge makes a surprising pronunciation choice that just tickles me

there were a few specific lines i was worried would lose their magic but “you and i’ll go ahead” still sounds perfect

again, ensemble is eatinggg

OPEN ARMS

Steven stuck out so much to me for some reason. more so when i listened on my tv, but still a bit on my phone as well. the mixing on him feels a little off compared to everyone else to my ear, which is odd compared to the bell-like perfect clarity the stolen version has. this isn’t a diss to Steven, he has a beautiful voice and is the perfect polites which may be why this production difference sticks out more than any one else’s. idk maybe i’m tripping but it feels like he lost some of the innocence in his voice as a result 🥺

i wonder if the lotus eaters sound a little deeper to distinguish them from the winions

i love the “nom nom nom,” “scary cave,” and “that way” 😂😂😂

WARRIOR OF THE MIND

Teagan is so solid it’s unreal, athena songs can’t help but be bops and aside from the “villain god songs” are my favs

thought it was “you lied to me,” not “enlighten me” until yesterday 😅

CYCLOPS

POLYPHEMUS

ik after the ts master’s heist that re-recorded masters have to be distinguishable for legal reasons, but it’s so interesting what and how choices were made here, such as polyphemus’ voice change

“watch out” and the mixing leading into Survive is perfection

SURVIVE

the fighting is excellent

OKAY GUITAR???

the harmonizing is stunning

the deaths are even more brutal 😭😭

ik he squished polites but polyphemus is so pitiful and they are in his house, you could never make me hate him in this version 🥺 (in hades 2 yeah fuck that guy lolol)

REMEMBER THEM

eurylochus screaming is very good

Jay’s vocals are DELICIOUS!! this song might be the biggest improvement for him.

the crew sounds more reverential and mournful while od grows in anger throughout which i like how that builds into the name reveal

GAH od’s no and athena’s no are both more terrifying now that they exchanged energy

background vocals during the build to his name reveal seem much more pronounced, which is interesting but i love it

“hey cyclops” really feels like the culmination of all the anger in this songs and then we get hit with the new “odysseus”

MY GOODBYE

platonic breakup song of my dreams 😩😩😩

oooh that growl on “waste” is everything

her disappointment is a little sadder in this one

nailed it, kept the magic, i have nothing but love for this song

RE-RECORDINGS OVERALL

Jorge’s vocals are so much clearer throughout and his acting is so much more nuanced! I didn’t have any criticism for the original version before, but having them to compare now makes me really appreciate his growth and depth of understanding of the character arc Ody’s on in the new ones.

the mixing is so smooth and I LOVE the new vocals for the ensemble

STRINGSSS

such a glow up on the cover art!!!

every song was either an improvement or just as good, but i need more time with open arms to decipher my full feelings on that one

i’m really glad Jorge did this.

⭐️ REMINDER: STREAM NEW VERSIONS ONLY FROM NOW ON SO MR JALAPEÑO CAN BE HELLA PAID YO ⭐️

now…

THUNDER

SUFFERING

i didn’t consider Jorge had lied about the sirens not being included until the end, so at first i thought it was a dream or something, but realized the heavy production meant some god/monster fuckery + the repeated trying to get him in the water + use of Penelope’s voice it became apparent to me just in time for the turn.

this song is so cute and ridiculous

the tonal dissonance was jarring but then on additional passes it’s so perfect to express how out of place what’s happening is. it’s confusing because it’s wrong

Anna’s delivery of “of course” and “oh no” are so playful, i love that he found an creative way to include more penelope

shy my ass lolol that was around when it clicked

also since they’re sirens, this is what he wants to hear most which is sad to think about if this is how he desires their marriage to be when he returns 😓. no matter of love or support can fix all the pain and guilt he’ll carry the rest of his life, but that hope is all he has

DIFFERENT BEAST

i love that “my real wife knows” is gonna probably mirror penelope saying something like “my real husband would know” in the ithaca saga

the layering of voices in the chorus

12 years or so is SO funny

i’d be scared so shitless

“nah you wouldn’t have spared me” and “let them drown” delivery

the crew’s turn from “we” to “he” then od singing “kill them all” before the following 3 songs is UNHINGED

SCYLLA

i was most excited for this song going in and was NOT disappointed!

scylla vocals in the backdrop to eurylochus’ confession feels reminiscent of puppeteer after his attempted confession with circe layered over. this time odysseus makes a different choice 😭

not much to say > i’ve got a secret > i opened the windbag > *silence* > light up 6 torches no words just ????????

DROWN - CHOKE - BLEED is so crunchy i want to mix it into my granola

the monstrous scylla belting is EVERYTHING and left me wanting so much more, so i guess i just have to repeat this song forever (but if Jay wants to release a Scylla extended cut i would be the #1 supporter)

“we are the same you and i” after his transformation into the monster is the stuff music is made for

MUTINY

luck runs out reprisal with the strings is gonna be the end of me

“crazy and mad”

he said gaslight me PLSSSS

eurylochus losing his mind with the loss of his faith in od will leave me in shambles for the foreseeable future

“SAY SOMETHING”

“I CANT” 😬😬😬

electric guitar is guitarringggg

there is no price he won’t pay- the moment of clarity for the crew

yeah od why did you think they’d still trust you lol

im still not over the fact that burr and hamilton switching it up at the end is what sealed their fates and i imagine the same will remain true of ody and eury repeating that devastating irony

i wasn’t sure who would win the duel or if they’d keep the cows in, so as soon as i heard that cow i was like it’s over they’re so cooked they can’t conceive of how bad this is gonna be. helios don’t play about those cows (even though i’m inclined to think Jorge is switching it to be apollo for the sake of simplicity for epic which would also explain why apollo’s part of god games is still unknown even though his part is first)

wind god/sun god is so special to me

eurylochus isn’t himself anymore, odysseus was his hope

“please don’t tell me you’re about to do what i think you’ll do”

“ODY-“ brb screaming crying throwing up

“im just a man” 😭

he didn’t even get to enjoy a final meal, they died for nothing and it’s so damn sad

the acting in this may be the best in the entire musical

“captain?” 🥺😭 his hunger is so great and his spirit is so broken

“WHO DO YOU THINK HE’LL SEND???” is so desperate and well delivered

⚡️⚡️⚡️THUNDER BRINGER⚡️⚡️⚡️

the thunder and chanting and electric guitar and percussion and LUKE’S VOICE and-

the lyrical implications are so appropriately horrible but the beat is seductive and his voice is so powerful and it slides and shoots like lightning strikes or thunder rumbling might- culminating into a banger that captures the king of the gods’ essence perfectly. he is divine judgment and i would say that he abuses that but he doesn’t even see it that way. you implicitly can’t refuse his power, you never had the option and it’s terrifying and so damn zeus.

i truly have no notes that aren’t appreciation and awe. i won’t declare so definitively out of awareness that recency bias is in play, but this may best ruthlessness as my favorite.

odysseus will hate rain and the ocean for the rest of his life, they mean one of the big 3 is coming to fuck up his whole life 😅😅😅

“tell me” and “enlighten me” have me so giddy, he’s enjoying himself so much lol

so many GORGEOUS line deliveries in this whole song. this entire song is GORGEOUS line deliveries. one of my favs is how “choose” and “you or your crew” is said like a gentle interlude for the showier singing but is the most devastating part. the climax is in the quiet for this song

“please don’t make me do this” callback is lethal. odysseus never would’ve made another choice but the way they respectively play out and how he feels about them are brutal.

“let me take the suffering from you” he’s drawing from the siren’s version of penelope to convince himself he can live with the guilt. he uses her as an excuse time and time again to do the worst things, so much so that that’s how he sees her now. he’s desperate for her to be that because how else can he face himself? the one time he looked inward he saw a monster, no wonder he always has to look to/for her.

“captain?”

“i have to see her”

“but we’ll die”

“i know”

😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭

they sound like scared children and i’m NOT OKAY. eurylochus gave everything for 12 years and odysseus told him he would do ANYTHING to save eury specifically when he risked his life for the pig-ified crew and not only was that not true, he ultimately chose to let him and 35 other men die in a final betrayal after withering his hope, faith, and mind. odysseus is devastated and racked with guilt but it was never a choice. he merely sees himself more honestly now, not the hero he saw in the mirror at the start of the journey, or even back on aeaea.

ik it’s the chorus but also it’s just like zeus to make it about himself again as he decimates these men. his all-powerful divine judgement is his right and stands as his thesis, as ruthlessness for mercy of self does for poseidon.

it sounds like a lullaby at the end like it does in THATI and Just a Man. innocence has died for the final time, there’s nothing good in him left to sacrifice. all he has is the hope that what’s left can still be loved and accepted by penelope because his love of self is gone. yet all that remains is selfishness. he’s calcified into himself, and this makes me hungry to re-read his character study in Circe by Madeline Miller because they do the same thing: Epic reveals this truth through his own perception of himself while Circe does it through the memories of those who loved him and most desperately wanted to the lies he believed about himself to be true.

FINAL THOUGHTS

i will NEVER hate eurylochus. he was top 3 before, but after this saga he is definitively my favorite character. were there devastating consequences to his actions? i mean yeah but also odysseus expected unconditional faith after making the original decision that put them in danger in the first place. his grief and/or pride (depending on how you interpret epic’s depiction of od) and ignoring eury/athena is what put them all in poseidon’s sights. he was clever, yes, but what did that ultimately amount to? it makes all the sense in the world that eurylochus lost faith in his cleverness when he saw the consequences and then just when od earned back his trust, he sacrificed 6 of their men without even trying to be clever. it’s all tragic and if you’re withholding criticism for od but can’t hold nuance for eury then we are having very different experiences, idk what to tell you lol.

danger motifffff

i hope the crew haunts od’s ass so we can hear them again, but either way what an expertly executed ending for those characters and that chapter of odysseus’ life. brava.

this may be the best saga. again- recency bias- but it’s certainly going to be one of the best when all is said and done. THANK YOU JAY. THANK YOU ARMANDO. THANK YOU ANNA. THANK YOU LUKE. THANK YOU KJ.

so far my ranking is reverse track order

i hope we get the wisdom saga sooner than later because i’m greedy for good art lol but i’d wait however long Jay needs for another saga as well executed as this one

10/10 acting, 10/10 singing, 10/10 production. so much heart, skill, and talent has been put into this project and i’m really happy to be on this journey of appreciating and analyzing it with y’all in real time ☺️

i’m most looking forward to calypso and penelope as characters, but god games, get in the water, and hold them down as songs in each of the remaining sagas. (also my boy hephaestus)

if you made it this far, holy shit thank you. if you have money to spare please sponsor a family on Operation Olive Branch, also stream songs with proceeds being raised for liberation (such as Revolutin’ by Amira Unplugged), and Free Palestine, Congo, Sudan, Tigray, West Papúa, Haití, Hawaii, Armenia, Uyghur, and Turtle Island til it’s backwards! None of us are free until we’re all free.

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cyanide-sippy-cup · 2 months ago

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Happy Wisdom Saga day! For the fun, I spent multiple hours creating this- Every time Epic calls back to a previous song: a very non-exhaustive list. First is what I noticed by ear and second is what Jorge has said on the topic at time of writing. The order is merely the order in which I wrote my notes. Wisdom Saga spoilers ahead!

Survive calls back to Zeus' verse in The Horse and the Infant. Suffering also calls back to this verse with the "he will chase you high and low".

Ruthlessness calls back to Full Speed Ahead with the "43 left under your command".

Mutiny, Scylla, KYFC, and Underworld all have the crew sing "Full Speed Ahead".

The way the crew sings their "oh" in Remember Them gets called back to in Different Beasts and Monster.

The way Polyphemus sings "nobody" in Remember Them mimics how Odysseus sings it when he gives him the wine.

"Let's grab the sheep and away we go" mimics the "we're off, we're off, and away we go" from Full Speed Ahead.

Remember Them plays Athena's motif along with the returning "have you forgotten the lessons I taught you?"

Remember Them features a musical version of "we're off, we're off, and away we go". Odysseus also says "I am your darkest moment" which Poseidon will call back to later.

My Goodbye does the "Just A Man" thing and calls back to the long "miiiiiind" with "goodbyyyyyye".

Storm plays Aeolus' motif.

Puppeteer opens with a tune from Full Speed Ahead.

When Eurylochus gets shut down by Odysseus in Puppeteer, he says "okay" the same way as in Luck Runs Out, accompanied by the same music. In the same vein, the way Ody says "what" to the lotus eaters' "it's treasure!" is similar to his "what" when Polyphemus decides to kill him last, accompanied by his motif.

KYFC, Suffering, and pretty much every other song with any hint of Penelope do the "Penelope~" thing and all I can think every time is "banana peels~"

When Eurylochus opens the wind bag, the crew sing Storm and Full Speed Ahead.

ALL I GOTTA DO IS OPEN THIS BAG

There Are Other Ways calls back to Puppeteer with "don't be afraid", Wouldn't You Like with "so much power", and Just A Man with "I'm just a man" and "forgive me". Penelope's theme also appears instead of the outright "banana peels~".

There is a motif that plays at the very beginning of The Horse and the Infant that plays all across the musical, including Warriors of the Mind and Underworld (and more that I didn't write down).

Underworld calls back to Full Speed Ahead and Just A Man (and the way they sing "558 men" made me think of Perimedes lol). It also has the crew sing "captain" like when they were dying in Ruthlessness (Jorge wth).

POLITES NOOOOOO 😭

Eurylochus' "forgive me" in Scylla mimics the "forgive me" from Just A Man.

Mutiny opens with the Luck Runs Out motif and has them sing the "please don't tell me you're about to do what I think you'll do" bit but reversed. Eurylochus sings about the cows and their hunger to the same tune as Zeus' verse in The Horse and the Infant/the opening of Survive.

HE'S JUST A MAN

Thunder Bringer has Odysseus beg "please don't make me do this" like in THatI and features Just A Man's "when does a cabbage become a meteor"/ Suffering's chorus.

When Telemachus says "give me a sign", Athena's motif plays. This also plays across this saga in We'll Be Fine, Love In Paradise, and God Games (except in GG it's a choir version).

Jorge said there's a sound effect for whenever Athena pulls someone into Quick Thought (I think that's what it's called). This plays when she helps Telemachus in Little Wolf.

The way she sings "apaaaaaart" in We'll Be Fine is reminiscent of the "miiiiiind" from WotM.

When Telemachus' verse begins in WBF, the Warriors of the Mind music begins playing. When he sings "you're my friend, I couldn't ask for more" he sings it similarly to "I wanna be legendary".

Ugh. Love In Paradise calls back to Remember Them, Keep Your Friends Close, Ruthlessness, Done For, No Longer You, Different Beasts, Scylla, and Mutiny. This song really turned around cause when it began, I was not a fan (can you tell why lol).

When Odysseus tries to jump off the cliff, the music from the opening of Polyphemus plays. We also get Underworld references with "all I hear are screams" and Ody's mom, as well as Open Arms and Luck Runs Out.

Have to break character here but "she's my wife." "...anyway-" made me snort so loudly.

"I'm not your man" is "I'm just a man".

Athena says "Odysseus" in God Games like how the crew does in Remember Them and Different Beasts (yknow, after the "oh, ooh oho" segments).

Thunder Bringer plays when Zeus introduces Hephaestus and of course when he murks Athena.

I never noticed before but Athena actually pulls Aphrodite into Quick Thought to ask her to reconsider and thEN ARES BREAKS IT/USES HIS OWN THING?? AND THEN ATHENA OVERPOWERS IT TO SAY HER PIECE??!! GOD GAMES IS AWESOME WHAT THE FUCK.

When Athena is "killed(?)" by Zeus, a piano version of Warriors of the Mind plays, as well as a quick "I wanna be legendary".

According to Jorge, Penelope's instrument (a viola) does not appear in Suffering but rather a mallet, as it is still the instrument of SOMEONE he cares about (Polites :(((), just not his wife.

The musical features a "Danger Motif" that appears whenever there is a threat. This can be heard when the men attack the city in The Horse and the Infant. In Ruthlessness, Poseidon's name is sung to that tune as he is a very present and very powerful danger.

Circe has a tune/kick drum combo that repeats across all three of her songs.

During Odysseus' speech in Puppeteer, a lyre is used, indicating that Hermes is listening in.

Eurylochus doesn't have an accompanying instrument of his own, however he does always have the voices of the crew to harmonize with him since "he always tries his best to protect them". Jorge wth.

When Eurylochus pulls his sword against Odysseus in Mutiny, an electric guitar is used (Odysseus' instrument) as he is trying to take Odysseus' place. JORGE. WTH.

When Odysseus tries to reason with Eurylochus as his friend in Luck Runs Out, it has the same type of progression as Open Arms, showing that Polites' belief still holds over Odysseus.

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