#charlie morningstar theories

[dnpanimationstudioclone]

Roo’s Future Vessel Theory🍏

Going on the idea Alastors controlled by Roo/Eve(possibly). She will someday take over Charlie when she’s at her lowest. And going on the idea she’s Charlie’s real mother(there’s been theories going around) perhaps created Charlie for this sole purpose.

It’s nothing new that Charlie’s made mistakes, some small, other ones pretty big. and she’s def aware of this too. What if eventually…she starts to feel like whenever she’s directly involved in things or tries to be, will just make things worse. Begins to feel that she’s an obstacle, just in everyone’s way and that eventually she’ll just push them away and perhaps worried…that’s why she left💔

Maybe overtime with Emily around in Hell, she proves to be more capable than Charlie in things like helping people directly with their problems and issues, especially with redemption(she’s a heavenly high seraphim who’s duty was to ensure the happiness and stability of the winners)

Maybe eventually she’ll get into fights with the gang, things being said and done that can’t be taken back…and end up keeping their distances…like she did. It could get to the point Charlie begins to think she’s the biggest threat to them, not the overlords, not heaven, not their pasts…she’s the root of it all.

And if the theory that’s she’s actually…Roos daughter this would amplify this even more. Believing her whole existence is just to destroy everything afterall…in a way, she wasn’t a failure…just was succeeding in a way she didn’t want to💔

And maybe using Al, Roo will convince Charlie…perhaps it’s time to play a different role for them. Especially with Emily coming along …seeing her as the new, better her, the true Protagonist. Now they need the true Antagonist, the big bad, the root of all their evil😈🍎 Afterall, some of the mistakes she made ended up creating some big changes, like how she handled Angels situation led to Husk and Angel becoming closer, or making Vaggie the leader of the exercises helped bring everyone together, the war on the hotel made Sir P finally redeem….

She created the Hotel, a place for everyone to change, she was the catalyst, the start, the root…and perhaps the best way she can help them now…is to make things worst first. Lowkey based on Ducktales, Negaduck

Charlie-They need a big bad villain for their story of good rising against evil? Happy to play the part!😈

I think this lowkey fits. Joy would be Charlie, Husk Anger, maybe they get into a fight.

What do u think? I’d love to know💖

[greykolla-art]

Charlie: “I’m so glad my most villain-coded friend is at full power again! 🥰💕”

*throws this to you angst goblins like raw steak* ❤️

(No I will not do a part 2!❤️)

[wyxxiee]

can i say something reaaaal crazy rn?

let me tell you something… LET ME TELL YOU SOMETHING!!!

edit: It could be either Eve or Roo, I’m betting my sanity on this one 🤣

read my other theory: here !!

EDIT : okayyy, i know i haven’t been answering my inbox (my apologies, i’m really busy rn🥲) but might i just add about the concern about the eyes! PLS READ:)!!

[anthurak]

You know the more I've thought about it, the fact that Charlie and Vaggie do a romantic reprise of 'More Than Anything' feels like a strong indicator not just that Chaggie will end up being framed as a thematic parallel/foil to Lilith and Lucifer, but also that Charlie is specifically meant to be the counterpart to Lilith; the (half)human woman who inspires Hell through song, and Vaggie the counterpart to Lucifer; the fallen angel who fell in love with her.

[sophie-seokkie]

OMG??? DO YOU SEE WHAT I SEE?? It's the little boy that vaggie saved ALL GROWN UP

[riuke-doodles]

Matpat's Final Game Theory is dropping in just a few minutes 🥺 My other obsession is going strong right now, so this is how I cope.

[vannahrt]

Something interesting I just realized

Every time we see Charlie in the past, she is wearing a dress.

Her style at first seems like a mix of both her mother and her father, though I would say it leans more toward Lilith. And in every photo Charlie is faced toward Lilith as opposed to Lucifer.

Every time we see Charlie in the present day, she is wearing a suit.

And I would say, resembles her father much more than her mother. I’m not sure what to take from this, it was just an observation.

But then I thought about it, and she does wear a dress during the present day, one time.

And it was this frame of the show I realized how much Charlie really does look like Lilith and Lucifer, and how her feminine style as an adult really captures both of them perfectly.

Her battle outfit is like a representation of the leaders of Hell, how sick is that.

[falling-star-cygnus]

did anybody else notice that in almost every scene that Alastor is in or leading in, eyes seem to follow him? -> and not just in the "it's the radio demon, oh my gosh!" sense

i mean the design literally follows him. this isn’t even half of the eyes that i found in his first half scene

they also move to stay on him, they're on his radio tower items:

and they’re on Carmilla’s meeting furniture for some reason?? -> Alastor get shifty eyed when Zestiel questions where he's been; almost as if someone is going to jump out at him if he says too much

during his deal with Charlie he specifically covers the eye in her window first and stands in a corner where the eyes engraved on her pillars are less present

Is Alastor being watched by someone? Or- considering the eye also located on his microphone- is someone monitoring how he uses his borrowed powers, monitoring how much he shares with Charlie?

If so, who is it? clearly not Lucifer, and it can't be Vox because the designs aren't electronic -> Heaven clearly uses the organic eyes growing in the buildings and wreckage to watch the sinners

but why do the carvings seem to follow Alastor?

[hawkeye221b]

I have a thought about Hazbin Hotel- and specifically how Camilla managed to kill one of the angels.

because if just any demon or overlord could kill one, why hadn't it happened before? why would this be the new ground and not something thats been seen in the past- surely the angels have gone against overlords before. surely if thats all it takes then it should've happened before.

and thats where my theory comes in- its not about who killed or how- its about the intent behind it. Camilla says she only killed the angel to protect her loved ones- her daughters. it wasn't to kill just to kill or to show her power.. it was an act of selflessness. An act of good.

And i think thats the key. Its not about the weapon or the person or power- but its the intent behind it. Acts that are honest to god good and have no ulterior motives are the key in killing the angels- beings that are supposedly agents of good and purity. Its fighting fire with fire.

And i think thats what will make Charlie the most dangerous demon in hell when the extermination comes again- because shes not fighting to protect herself or just to prove her power as the princess. she'd be fighting to protect others and prove that people can change. and no one will be able to stop her- not adam, not her father and probably not even Alastor if he tried.

[ohbother2]

OKAY SO-

Alastor lost his cool and flipped his shit immensely when Lucifer showed up - why would that be? and why wedge himself between Lucifer and Charlie? Why would he react so viscerally when his literal main-competitor for retaining his rank and respect is Vox, and Vox openly antagonises him first, trying to drag Alastor's reputation through the mud in his broadcasts

Alastor remains cool, calm, collected, and in doing so completely surpasses Vox's attempts

in many ways, Alastor is unflappable. Always smiling, always a step ahead, always the most powerful and domineering in a room

and then- Lucifer shows up. This short statured, rosy-cheeked, rather pathetic excuse of a man

he waltzes in to the hotel, a fumbling over-excited mess, the least threatening a person could possibly look in hell, barely reaching Alastor's waist

and yet, he outranks Alastor, he could over-power him easily, he is the predator

and Alastor simply cannot handle that

Alastor may be furious that such a week-minded, emotionally unguarded man ranks so far above him with no way for Alastor to even attempt to gain the same status

so what does Lucifer lack? what is the one thing Alastor can have that he can't?

a relationship with Charlie

his anger is calculated, he finds what hurts Lucifer, he finds his weakness, he grips onto it with both claws, and he drags it in front of him, mocking the fact that, yeah, sure Lucifer may outrank him, but in his daughters mind? one of the few things Lucifer can't control? Alastor has the power, has the lead - in all manners of 'power' and 'influence' that Lucifer cannot control, Alastor makes sure he knows he is on top - he is Charlie's favourite, he succeeds where Lucifer has failed her

regardless of his motives, he has been there for Charlie, and Lucifer hasn't, and that's all that matters

but why does he have this deep-rooted need to prove himself? why can he not accept that he is still the second most powerful in that hotel?

his need for power, for dominance, for control is shown again when Husk confronts him in the hallway

'big talk for someone who's also on a leash'

this time, Alastor doesn't even bother targeting Husker's, insecurities, his weaknesses

he drags him down the hallway chained at his neck, teeth gnashing and positively enraged

there's no typical Alastor intelligence or cunning behind this action - it is pure unadulterated rage, it's a: I can kill you, and I will

killing husk would be useless - Alastor obviously has a purpose for him, that's why he's been kept alive and the other overlords haven't, killing him would get rid of any leverage Alastor had, it would get rid of Husk full stop

Alastor has been gone for 7 years, and now he's back, supporting a cause he doesn't believe, forced to wander around the hotel halls and haunting its residents instead of freely roaming Hell

Lilith has also been gone 7 years - and she isn't yet back

Alastor just so happens to appear at the hotel mere moments after Charlie tries to talk to Lilith, marching into the foyer and wedging himself into the project with a showman's flair

he is chained, he is chained to that infernal hotel where he doesn't belong - he cannot be redeemed, he doesn't want to be redeemed

he is chained to Lilith, and by extension he is chained to Charlie

and in his eyes, he is powerless, so utterly and infuriatingly at the mercy of those above him, and that simply won't do

so what can he do? what can a man, whose greatest desire is power, who's biggest insecurity is the power and status he wields over others, do to reclaim some semblance of that power? how can he usurp Lilith? how can be make this soul-bond beneficial to him?

he can win Charlie over - he can replace her father in the process, he can mould her as he sees fit, he can play on her need to view the best in everyone, in the need to create friendships and her insatiable ability to care for those around her

he cannot get to Lilith, he cannot match Lucifer, but he can have Charlie

and he's nearly got her

and when he does? who's to say her naivety, her trust, the relationship he's intentionally crafted with her, leads her to strike a deal with him in a moment of need? when the angels attack, when the hotel begins to crumble, when heaven commands her to stop her efforts? why wouldn't she strike a deal, in her mind, he's as caring as a father figure, and a man who's been there since day one unlike either of her parents

she shakes his hand

he has her soul

he has Charlie, and he has Lilith, and he has Lucifer

there's nothing they can do, and isn't that really what power is? not raw-strength, not magic, not status, but the ability to control those who others may believe to be above your own station?

he's forced to the hotel, he's chained down and unable to grab for more power - if Lilith is preventing him from earning it himself, well, he can always just force her to give it to him

all it takes is one hand shake.

the cherry on top? he get's to show Lilith it's her own desire for him to be at the hotel that has allowed him to ensnare them all

[ckducky]

Fallen Angel Carmilla Carmine

[dnpanimationstudioclone]

Charlie’s Intentions

Awhile back I made a theory about why Charlie and Sev broke up(her secretly using him to try to find Lilith) and how the hotel could be a second attempt to reach out to her

Not trying to say she’s never done good things that help others or atleast tried to….but when you think of it, they’re often still to or for her benefit(for the hotel to work). Warning this goes DEEEEEPPPP!!!!!!!!!!!

Helping Sir Pentious even after the reveal(fav moments) Even after beign revealed to be a Vee spy, Charlie forgave him and let him have the chance to be a real guest….but that would be to her benefit(having more guests, especially those willing to go along with her activities). Many have pointed how quick she was to support Sir P, making Angel feel left out(I get both sides, on the one hand she def put a lot of attention towards Sir P and perhaps couldve been more supportive towards Angel like in the roleplay, but on the other hand, Angel at that time often made it VERY clear to their faces he didn’t believe in the plan or was interested beyond having a free room and going on the idea the pilot events still happened, AFTER THAT whole stunt at the terf war & News station, he’s pretty lucky Charlie didn’t just kick him out, like Vaggie probably would’ve wanted(can’t blame her though Angel def is not easy to her especially).

But that begs the question, did she let Angel stay and puts up with his behaviour as she genuinely didn’t want to give up on him, understanding redeeming him wouldn’t be easy or because….he was their ONLY client and didn’t want to risk losing that but now that there’s another and seemingly easier to work with client, ready to focus solely on him…was she just being innocently insensitive, not understanding how that hurt Angel or…was she honestly just more focused on making progress with anybody.

Was her putting Vaggie in charge of the trust activities out of a well meaning but misguided spur of the moment decision thinking they’d relate better to Vaggie as not jsut a sinner but also someone learning to trust them and vice versa…or was it to avoid screwing things up herself, as none of her past attempts seem to work a lot and figure Vaggie would have better luck as she’s able to control things, or if it didn’t work wouldn’t really cause any more damage to Vaggie’s already distant relationship with the gang. And only intervened when things were getting out of control and apologized to Vaggie as th least thign she’d want is her biggest help to go…

I don’t think we need to really get too deep into how she handled didnt go so well Ep 4. She never really thought much of Angel’s work situation and situation in general outside the hotel and the main motive for her going to Val was to get Angel more time for HER project(which wouldn’t have been so bad had it not ended how it did). During one of the sets she was advertising the hotel to a camera guy WHILE FILMING! And though the fire was an accident and careless OSHA, had she have just waited and focused on talking specifically about Angel to Val or had waited to talk with Angel when he returned, I think it’s safe to say a lot would have been different atleast. She did atleast seem, genuinely remorseful and wanted to make things right for unintentionally getting Angel hurt….or was it more about Angel being mad at her(not about making someone u care about angry at you via doing something to upset or hurt them and more about him not trusting her and potentially would reconsider being her client). Perhaps a mix of both?

Valentino-For all you know Amorcito, part of her screwed things up on purpose just so you wouldn’t try to get her to help beyond her stupid hotel 🏨 😈

Not 100% sure of the afternath(how fully aware she and the gang r of the situation, just know Val SUCKS and it’d be ideal to get him away). Did she talk to him about it after, did she ask the gang on what could be done, is she looking for ways beyond jsut the hotel to get him out, is she figuring that the best thing for her to do for Angel is to help him redeem and get into Heaven….or just focusing on her main goal, now seeing more motivation for Angel.

Was she really inspired by her father and his “dreams”, or figured by connecting to him in a way, he’d at least listen cause of his ego, being the King of Pride. She did still say “my people” not “our”.

Charlie was under the belief her dad was only in contact with her “when he was bored or needed something(not sure what bored could mean, maybe her not realizing he did want to check up on her). Didn’t call in over 5 months…whos to say she figure turn the tables. She only had gotten him involved when they were desperate and it was Vaggie who suggested his help.

Was Charlie just angry about the higher ups not knowing what gets someone into Heaven because of the potential implications of people who aren’t necessarily pure evil being damned to eternal blaze or even death because of this system….or also because she realized all the stuff she was trying to do to begin with could’ve been all for nothing, wouldn’t change things. Heck one could argue she was defending Angel from Adam because she had allowed him and the others to go to the club, perhaps wanted to give them a lil reward for the help so far and though it would’ve also kept them from being in or causing trouble(especially since she’s paying) while she and Vaggie were gone( another thing is perhaps her wanting to make up for ep 4 by letting angels friend take him and the rest out for a fun night, appease her own guilt)loss

Did she come to forgive Vaggie because she genuinely wanted to despite what she did and lying to her and that it’s part of her principles she promotes in the hotel like Rosie said(second chances) or because Rosie reminded her Vaggie’s been the one helping her throughout the story and coudlnt afford to stay angry with the war coming(Vaggie also brought weaponry too). Heck it was VAGGIE who explained things and made it clear to the gang this wasn’t their fight and had no obligation to risk themselves while Charlie ran off with Al, not even explaining what they’re doing.

I’m not trying to say Charlie’s some bad person who’s manipulating everyone. It’s clear she does have legitimate care for the gang and has had moments showing that, but you can’t deny there’s a lot that could be interpreted of having….ulterior motives. People often run by a bit of self motivation, we all need a little of that, it’s only a problem when u don’t consider how it could affect others, only focusing on your own goals and desires.

She’s not only not really thought a lot of the gang and their stuff beyond the hotel, but also def unaware how sinners are and hasn’t seem to done really solid research on humans or the concepts of redemption and rehabilitation. I don’t think she’s even asked them WHAT THEY DID TO COME DOWN TO HELL! She def didn’t seem all too interested in Missy mentioning how she knew Al back when he was alive. She also didn’t give her the same kinda introducing she did with Sir P. Granted she was busy with her dad but you’d think she’d have been atleast more interested.

Could one of the reasons that her methods and activities are kinda childish just simply because she’s very sheltered and naive… or that’s she’s simply scratching the surface to make the sinners seem good enough for Heaven so news will spread and Lilith…for all we know the day she helped Vaggie could…be more than meets the eye. Was she already out with the intent of trying to help sinners(her moms people) from the extermination or was there something else…(I like to imagine she was trying to help sinners💖)

Is her heart completely in the right place and just goes about things the wrong way…or could even her good intentions have an under layer of selfishness she doesn’t even realize that compromises the hotel’s goal of helping and healing souls. If this could be the case, could this reflection help Charlie grow and learn how to help sinners, being able to properly connect with them….or could this realization drive a genuine wedge between her and everyone

….perhaps leading to

What do u guys think? Could their be a bit of dark in her sweet apple core? really love to know💖🍎🍏

[spacebubblehomebase]

Out of context reimagined parts from my new #HHStargazersAU!

⚠️ TW: Nerdy word vomit about my coloring choices ahead:

My take on human Chaggie & Radioapple's color scheme! Yes. I headcanon the Magnes as beautiful blondes with just as beautiful brown eyes. Because there's no WAY warm red & yellows translate to cool baby blues! If anything, Vaggie's eyes would be the lighter shade. (At least in my AU.) Because her canon eyes are white and I think the dark skin contrast nicely with blue. As for Alastor's green... Look. Give me a chance! I swear I can later explain it through lore!

As for their clothes, I just chose hell's red for Charline, heavenly hues for Vaggie, earthy colors for Alastor to balance the green (with some white rather than black to show his employment under the Magnes), and pastels for Lucius (though out of everyone in my story, he may undergo the most palette switches. Just saying).

Spoiler for my recent comic update: As you can see, Vaggie & Alastor's human disguises aren't perfect. Thus some parts of their hair remain unchanged. Vaggie's ineffable white bangs and Alastor's brown-passing too-vibrant red hair (which mind you, was a difficult balance to achieve. Specially to match the greens-) still ever so distinct. People think they dyed it, but I assure you, it's all natural~! Along with their near supernatural ability to charm. Lol. -Bubbly💙

[wyxxiee]

My friend told me that Niffty may have died from lobotomy. Explaining why she only has one eye and has an obsession with needles.

ALSO… is he saying that because she’s crazy or because a needle actually twisted her mind i hate him haha 😭

[anthurak]

So with everything we learned and saw in Episode 4 from Angel, Valentino, Charlie and Husk, here’s a little theory on how the Hotel crew saving Angel from Valentino might play out. Particularly in how Husk’s status as a former Overlord may factor into things.

Because I have a hunch it’s actually going to be Husk, rather than Charlie who gets fed up first and goes out to make a real attempt at getting Angel away from Valentino, given everything we saw between Husk and Angel in this episode. Specifically, Husk aims to lure Valentino into gambling for Angel’s contract.

Now that raises the question of what exactly Husk could gamble with. I see two possibilities:

Option One, Husk full on bluffs Valentino that he still has substantial power as an Overlord and has been hiding it all this time, tempting him with more souls and power. And as we’ve seen most notably in Episode 2, Val in kind of a massive fucking idiot, so I could see him actually falling for this. Essentially, Husk gambles with nothing, save his own soul, for a chance to save Angel.

Option Two, Husk actually gets his power BACK from Alastor. Specifically through fulfilling some mysterious, nebulous condition Alastor set up for him. It could even be that this is what sets up Husk to gamble Val for Angel’s freedom. Alastor returns Husk’s power as an Overlord because he’s curious as to what Husk will do with it now. Which we see, is putting it all on the line again for a chance to save Angel.

Whichever way we get to it, we find Husk in a high-stakes card game with Valentino. And of course, Husk does the classic trope of NOT telling his friends or even the guy he’s doing this for what he’s doing to ‘keep them safe’ and all that. Of course, they do find out. Which will come into play later…

As for the all-important gamble; Husk actually does WIN legitimately against Valentino. However, because Valentino is… well, Valentino he welches on the deal and attacks Husk, and perhaps a recently arrived Angel as well.

Now in the event that Husk was bluffing Valentino the whole time and is actually helpless against a fully-powered Overlord, this would be when Alastor, from afar, actually returns Husk’s own power as an Overlord as some offhand, magnanimous whim. Which of course now allows Husk to actually fight back against Valentino.

What ensues is a full and proper fight between Husk/Angel and Valentino, with all the requisite emotional drama of Angel and Husk admitting their feelings for each other and all of Valentino’s shittiness as a person coming out in force. Maybe like an mlm version of the Bees vs. Adam fight.

However, despite getting his power as an Overlord back, Husk ultimately turns out to not be as powerful as Valentino. Alternatively, perhaps he never gets his power back at all and we just skip to here from Husk winning the bet. Whichever way we get here, Husk and Angel are now at the non-existent mercy of Valentino.

Which is precisely when CHARLIE shows up.

And I imagine what ensues plays out in a flash. Like everyone is only just registering that Charlie has appeared when suddenly everything is on fire. We get only the briefest glimpses, perhaps only in silhouette, of the full-sized horns on Charlie’s head, the great leathery wings coming out of her back and the pitchfork in her hand before she has Valentino by the throat and the mothman starts BURNING, screaming in pain as he is consumed in hellfire.

Basically, I feel that after this episode we are going to see Husk be the one to step up first to try and save Angel from Valentino, given everything we saw between the pair this episode. But at the same time, I think the interactions between Charlie and Valentino, particularly Charlie starting to transform in rage, sets her up as the one who’s going to ultimately put Val down. Specifically via giving us a glimpse at Charlie’s true power.

And I do say glimpse because I imagine the full and proper reveal of Charlie’s ‘Devil Form’ is almost certainly going to be saved for when she’s forced to take on the likes of Adam and the Exorcists, the ones who have been set-up as proper antagonists to Charlie herself.

[wjkae]

1. Charlie is distraught and scared for Angel. She’ll likely become increasingly determined to free him from Valentino as the season progresses.

2. Alastor is feuding with Vox. He would love to screw Vox over and potentially reap untold power benefits as an overlord.

3. Valentino is obsessed with Angel. He loses it at any hint of losing control over “his favourite toy”.

4. Vox is functionally in charge of Valentino’s meltdowns. Destabilizing Valentino threatens to destabilize all the Vees, especially Vox.

5. The Vees expressed concern in S1E2 about Alastor making a deal with Charlie in her capacity as Lucifer’s daughter.

6. Alastor has canonically attempted to ensnare Charlie in a soul-binding deal before in S1E0. This is possible despite Charlie’s hellborn status.

All that in mind …

What would Princess Charlie Morningstar, heir to the throne of Hell, be willing to trade away to The Radio Demon for Angel’s safety?