#charlie morningstar theories

[dnpanimationstudioclone]

Roo’s Future Vessel Theory🍏

Going on the idea Alastors controlled by Roo/Eve(possibly). She will someday take over Charlie when she’s at her lowest. And going on the idea she’s Charlie’s real mother(there’s been theories going around) perhaps created Charlie for this sole purpose.

It’s nothing new that Charlie’s made mistakes, some small, other ones pretty big. and she’s def aware of this too. What if eventually…she starts to feel like whenever she’s directly involved in things or tries to be, will just make things worse. Begins to feel that she’s an obstacle, just in everyone’s way and that eventually she’ll just push them away and perhaps worried…that’s why she left💔

Maybe overtime with Emily around in Hell, she proves to be more capable than Charlie in things like helping people directly with their problems and issues, especially with redemption(she’s a heavenly high seraphim who’s duty was to ensure the happiness and stability of the winners)

Maybe eventually she’ll get into fights with the gang, things being said and done that can’t be taken back…and end up keeping their distances…like she did. It could get to the point Charlie begins to think she’s the biggest threat to them, not the overlords, not heaven, not their pasts…she’s the root of it all.

And if the theory that’s she’s actually…Roos daughter this would amplify this even more. Believing her whole existence is just to destroy everything afterall…in a way, she wasn’t a failure…just was succeeding in a way she didn’t want to💔

And maybe using Al, Roo will convince Charlie…perhaps it’s time to play a different role for them. Especially with Emily coming along …seeing her as the new, better her, the true Protagonist. Now they need the true Antagonist, the big bad, the root of all their evil😈🍎 Afterall, some of the mistakes she made ended up creating some big changes, like how she handled Angels situation led to Husk and Angel becoming closer, or making Vaggie the leader of the exercises helped bring everyone together, the war on the hotel made Sir P finally redeem….

She created the Hotel, a place for everyone to change, she was the catalyst, the start, the root…and perhaps the best way she can help them now…is to make things worst first. Lowkey based on Ducktales, Negaduck

Charlie-They need a big bad villain for their story of good rising against evil? Happy to play the part!😈

I think this lowkey fits. Joy would be Charlie, Husk Anger, maybe they get into a fight.

What do u think? I’d love to know💖

[greykolla-art]

Charlie: “I’m so glad my most villain-coded friend is at full power again! 🥰💕”

*throws this to you angst goblins like raw steak* ❤️

(No I will not do a part 2!❤️)

[wyxxiee]

can i say something reaaaal crazy rn?

let me tell you something… LET ME TELL YOU SOMETHING!!!

edit: It could be either Eve or Roo, I’m betting my sanity on this one 🤣

read my other theory: here !!

EDIT : okayyy, i know i haven’t been answering my inbox (my apologies, i’m really busy rn🥲) but might i just add about the concern about the eyes! PLS READ:)!!

[anthurak]

You know the more I've thought about it, the fact that Charlie and Vaggie do a romantic reprise of 'More Than Anything' feels like a strong indicator not just that Chaggie will end up being framed as a thematic parallel/foil to Lilith and Lucifer, but also that Charlie is specifically meant to be the counterpart to Lilith; the (half)human woman who inspires Hell through song, and Vaggie the counterpart to Lucifer; the fallen angel who fell in love with her.

[sophie-seokkie]

OMG??? DO YOU SEE WHAT I SEE?? It's the little boy that vaggie saved ALL GROWN UP

[riuke-doodles]

Matpat's Final Game Theory is dropping in just a few minutes 🥺 My other obsession is going strong right now, so this is how I cope.

[vannahrt]

Something interesting I just realized

Every time we see Charlie in the past, she is wearing a dress.

Her style at first seems like a mix of both her mother and her father, though I would say it leans more toward Lilith. And in every photo Charlie is faced toward Lilith as opposed to Lucifer.

Every time we see Charlie in the present day, she is wearing a suit.

And I would say, resembles her father much more than her mother. I’m not sure what to take from this, it was just an observation.

But then I thought about it, and she does wear a dress during the present day, one time.

And it was this frame of the show I realized how much Charlie really does look like Lilith and Lucifer, and how her feminine style as an adult really captures both of them perfectly.

Her battle outfit is like a representation of the leaders of Hell, how sick is that.

[falling-star-cygnus]

did anybody else notice that in almost every scene that Alastor is in or leading in, eyes seem to follow him? -> and not just in the "it's the radio demon, oh my gosh!" sense

i mean the design literally follows him. this isn’t even half of the eyes that i found in his first half scene

they also move to stay on him, they're on his radio tower items:

and they’re on Carmilla’s meeting furniture for some reason?? -> Alastor get shifty eyed when Zestiel questions where he's been; almost as if someone is going to jump out at him if he says too much

during his deal with Charlie he specifically covers the eye in her window first and stands in a corner where the eyes engraved on her pillars are less present

Is Alastor being watched by someone? Or- considering the eye also located on his microphone- is someone monitoring how he uses his borrowed powers, monitoring how much he shares with Charlie?

If so, who is it? clearly not Lucifer, and it can't be Vox because the designs aren't electronic -> Heaven clearly uses the organic eyes growing in the buildings and wreckage to watch the sinners

but why do the carvings seem to follow Alastor?

[hawkeye221b]

I have a thought about Hazbin Hotel- and specifically how Camilla managed to kill one of the angels.

because if just any demon or overlord could kill one, why hadn't it happened before? why would this be the new ground and not something thats been seen in the past- surely the angels have gone against overlords before. surely if thats all it takes then it should've happened before.

and thats where my theory comes in- its not about who killed or how- its about the intent behind it. Camilla says she only killed the angel to protect her loved ones- her daughters. it wasn't to kill just to kill or to show her power.. it was an act of selflessness. An act of good.

And i think thats the key. Its not about the weapon or the person or power- but its the intent behind it. Acts that are honest to god good and have no ulterior motives are the key in killing the angels- beings that are supposedly agents of good and purity. Its fighting fire with fire.

And i think thats what will make Charlie the most dangerous demon in hell when the extermination comes again- because shes not fighting to protect herself or just to prove her power as the princess. she'd be fighting to protect others and prove that people can change. and no one will be able to stop her- not adam, not her father and probably not even Alastor if he tried.

[ohbother2]

OKAY SO-

Alastor lost his cool and flipped his shit immensely when Lucifer showed up - why would that be? and why wedge himself between Lucifer and Charlie? Why would he react so viscerally when his literal main-competitor for retaining his rank and respect is Vox, and Vox openly antagonises him first, trying to drag Alastor's reputation through the mud in his broadcasts

Alastor remains cool, calm, collected, and in doing so completely surpasses Vox's attempts

in many ways, Alastor is unflappable. Always smiling, always a step ahead, always the most powerful and domineering in a room

and then- Lucifer shows up. This short statured, rosy-cheeked, rather pathetic excuse of a man

he waltzes in to the hotel, a fumbling over-excited mess, the least threatening a person could possibly look in hell, barely reaching Alastor's waist

and yet, he outranks Alastor, he could over-power him easily, he is the predator

and Alastor simply cannot handle that

Alastor may be furious that such a week-minded, emotionally unguarded man ranks so far above him with no way for Alastor to even attempt to gain the same status

so what does Lucifer lack? what is the one thing Alastor can have that he can't?

a relationship with Charlie

his anger is calculated, he finds what hurts Lucifer, he finds his weakness, he grips onto it with both claws, and he drags it in front of him, mocking the fact that, yeah, sure Lucifer may outrank him, but in his daughters mind? one of the few things Lucifer can't control? Alastor has the power, has the lead - in all manners of 'power' and 'influence' that Lucifer cannot control, Alastor makes sure he knows he is on top - he is Charlie's favourite, he succeeds where Lucifer has failed her

regardless of his motives, he has been there for Charlie, and Lucifer hasn't, and that's all that matters

but why does he have this deep-rooted need to prove himself? why can he not accept that he is still the second most powerful in that hotel?

his need for power, for dominance, for control is shown again when Husk confronts him in the hallway

'big talk for someone who's also on a leash'

this time, Alastor doesn't even bother targeting Husker's, insecurities, his weaknesses

he drags him down the hallway chained at his neck, teeth gnashing and positively enraged

there's no typical Alastor intelligence or cunning behind this action - it is pure unadulterated rage, it's a: I can kill you, and I will

killing husk would be useless - Alastor obviously has a purpose for him, that's why he's been kept alive and the other overlords haven't, killing him would get rid of any leverage Alastor had, it would get rid of Husk full stop

Alastor has been gone for 7 years, and now he's back, supporting a cause he doesn't believe, forced to wander around the hotel halls and haunting its residents instead of freely roaming Hell

Lilith has also been gone 7 years - and she isn't yet back

Alastor just so happens to appear at the hotel mere moments after Charlie tries to talk to Lilith, marching into the foyer and wedging himself into the project with a showman's flair

he is chained, he is chained to that infernal hotel where he doesn't belong - he cannot be redeemed, he doesn't want to be redeemed

he is chained to Lilith, and by extension he is chained to Charlie

and in his eyes, he is powerless, so utterly and infuriatingly at the mercy of those above him, and that simply won't do

so what can he do? what can a man, whose greatest desire is power, who's biggest insecurity is the power and status he wields over others, do to reclaim some semblance of that power? how can he usurp Lilith? how can be make this soul-bond beneficial to him?

he can win Charlie over - he can replace her father in the process, he can mould her as he sees fit, he can play on her need to view the best in everyone, in the need to create friendships and her insatiable ability to care for those around her

he cannot get to Lilith, he cannot match Lucifer, but he can have Charlie

and he's nearly got her

and when he does? who's to say her naivety, her trust, the relationship he's intentionally crafted with her, leads her to strike a deal with him in a moment of need? when the angels attack, when the hotel begins to crumble, when heaven commands her to stop her efforts? why wouldn't she strike a deal, in her mind, he's as caring as a father figure, and a man who's been there since day one unlike either of her parents

she shakes his hand

he has her soul

he has Charlie, and he has Lilith, and he has Lucifer

there's nothing they can do, and isn't that really what power is? not raw-strength, not magic, not status, but the ability to control those who others may believe to be above your own station?

he's forced to the hotel, he's chained down and unable to grab for more power - if Lilith is preventing him from earning it himself, well, he can always just force her to give it to him

all it takes is one hand shake.

the cherry on top? he get's to show Lilith it's her own desire for him to be at the hotel that has allowed him to ensnare them all

[ckducky]

Fallen Angel Carmilla Carmine

[dnpanimationstudioclone]

Charlie & Seviathan🍎💔🐙 Theory Future

While scrolling on tumblr found this Lil pic in Lucifer room. Here’s a link CHARLIE AND SEV! HE AND HELSA MIGHT BE COMING! And I got SOME VERY ANGSTY IDEAS!

I know a lot of people theorize Sev was a bad boyfriend or that his sister did something but what if…it was CHARLIE who screwed up! Perhaps Sev would be like Verosika and Charlie Blitzo! Let me set the scene:

What if Charlie initially got with Sev…to get closer with his parents(Leviathan to see if he knew how to find Lilith, who seems to be or have been close with Lucifer, had some pics with him)

I can imagine at some point she tried to find or atleast try to contact her mom after the divorce. And when she came to realize she probably wasn't in Hell, maybe she was in the mortal realm. Afterall mortal had all kinds of tales about her like in Jewish folklore.

At first she had tried with her uncle Ozzie and the succubus and Inccubi, her mom's people only to get nothing. Perhaps believing they're forced to keep their tounges tied because of their closer connection to her. I know the show isn’t 100% tied to the biblical lore and I’m not the biggest expert but I remeber there was something about Asmodeus and Lilith being married. Given their ties I imagine they def have a connection in the hellaverse.

as Helluva Boss has foreshadowed in the show and S2 trailer, Envy sinners seem to be "possessor types" can come into the human world in a way, perhaps through other peoples bodies.

Maybe she hoped if she wasn’t in Hell, she’d be up in the mortal realm like those religion stories talked about.

At first she just got closer, friendly to Sev and Helsa in order to get closer to their dad who she could get something out of better.

But one thing leads to another and Sev asks her out. Not wanting to lose her best shot, she dates him, despite not really liking him that way(she convinces herself to).

Overtime Charlie comes to butt heads with Sev and Helsa. I imagine they Def have their issues. Sev has been described as "not evil but moreover ignorant" and from what's been implied with Helsa, Def seems like a Regina goerge type mean girl. I can see Sev be a bit obnoxious, insensitive, kinda frat boy (not as bad as Adam, though I could see his behavior remind her a bit of Sev) but he wasn't a bad guy...like Charlie he genuinely had sweet intentions, just went about them the wrong way and didn’t always consider things properly too...

At one point they have a fight and Charlie finally snaps and...accidentally slips put what she really came for. Sev was HEARTBROKEN. He wasn’t perfect but…legitimately liked Charlie and thought she liked him too, flaws and all💔

And for everything Helsa loves her brother. While she could be mean, she was like that with everyone, it was never a really personal or deep thing. But with Charlie, it Def became PERSONAL! Perhaps…even she thought of Charlie as a genuine friend among the lackeys and yes man posse around her, only to realize she was just using her too.💔

Charlie didn’t mean to hurt them and it’s understandable she’d want to find her mom, but at the same time was so focused on finding her…she didn’t consider the damage she’d cause on that path to Lilith, loosing so much more in the process💔

In the end, Leviathan told Charlie Lilith Def wasn't anywhere he atleast saw her and everything else became bitter history...but hey. The past has a way to crawl back. They say revenge is a dish best served cold.

Imagine if Sev and Helsa do come into the future(perhaps thanks to the Vees like the social media Velvette, Katire Killjoy or someone else out to hurt the hotel), and exposed Charlie's darker moments to the gang and especially to Vaggie, trying to convince them that just like back then, she’s using them in order to get to her. Charlie once said in ep 1 to Vaggie how the sinners were her mom’s people too and at the end of her story, it showed she hoped she’d be making her proud. She clearly believes mom had care for the sinners and would most likely be proud if she found some way to help them….maybe even make her come back.

Scenario:

Seviathan-Think about it! Think about all the times she’s caused trouble because she didn’t consider the consequences or how it’d affect anyone! I know you know Vaggie, you’re practically running the hotel for her! spider boy knows, you can also ask his crazy boss and when she somehow took your(Vaggie) advice of “aggressive kindness” as just walking into his workplace and disrupting the set, and even accidentally walked into setting a FIRE pitching script ideas), snake boy knows.

Charlie-Don’t you dar-

I’ll give her some credit, she tricked him into thinking she cared and it made him redeem and be saved…she just had to have people die to keep her hotel from being wrecked, only to just NEED TO RENOVATE THE DUMP ANYWAY! Pity the rest of the cannibals who laid their lives for that day weren’t as lucky as him!

Maybe the problem isn’t that you just go about your “best intentions” in the wrong way. Perhaps they aren’t what’s best for them. Look at your new Angel friend(Emily) she managed to do what you struggle so hard to be. ACTUALLY GOOD! She didn’t even do anything hard, that only a divine heavenly entity could do…she just knows to treat people like people. Not like characters in your stupid little music show.

Helsa-We def ain’t saints ourselves but atleast we’re straight up about being crooked. Now you all know. What you do is up to you but don’t say we didn’t warn ya. They leave

Vaggie-Charlie?

Charlie-…

End

I also hope this could be a way to address the critique people have about Charlie

think it’d be good to show and explore that even Charlie can be selfish and begin to reflect on herself on if she’s doing it for the right reasons. Husk even once said that Charlie helps others out with their issues, partially so she doesn’t have to deal with her own. She might be at a point where she even questions if she’s a good person or just convinced herself and everyone she is….like how she tried to convince herself she liked Sev.

Who knows this could even lead to huge changes with her relationship with Vaggie & the gang and how they view her…could even lead to…other things in the future. Good and bad.

What do u think? How do u imagine Charlie and Sevs relationship could’ve been like? I’d love to know💖

[spacebubblehomebase]

Out of context reimagined parts from my new #HHStargazersAU!

⚠️ TW: Nerdy word vomit about my coloring choices ahead:

My take on human Chaggie & Radioapple's color scheme! Yes. I headcanon the Magnes as beautiful blondes with just as beautiful brown eyes. Because there's no WAY warm red & yellows translate to cool baby blues! If anything, Vaggie's eyes would be the lighter shade. (At least in my AU.) Because her canon eyes are white and I think the dark skin contrast nicely with blue. As for Alastor's green... Look. Give me a chance! I swear I can later explain it through lore!

As for their clothes, I just chose hell's red for Charline, heavenly hues for Vaggie, earthy colors for Alastor to balance the green (with some white rather than black to show his employment under the Magnes), and pastels for Lucius (though out of everyone in my story, he may undergo the most palette switches. Just saying).

Spoiler for my recent comic update: As you can see, Vaggie & Alastor's human disguises aren't perfect. Thus some parts of their hair remain unchanged. Vaggie's ineffable white bangs and Alastor's brown-passing too-vibrant red hair (which mind you, was a difficult balance to achieve. Specially to match the greens-) still ever so distinct. People think they dyed it, but I assure you, it's all natural~! Along with their near supernatural ability to charm. Lol. -Bubbly💙

[wyxxiee]

My friend told me that Niffty may have died from lobotomy. Explaining why she only has one eye and has an obsession with needles.

ALSO… is he saying that because she’s crazy or because a needle actually twisted her mind i hate him haha 😭

[anthurak]

So with everything we learned and saw in Episode 4 from Angel, Valentino, Charlie and Husk, here’s a little theory on how the Hotel crew saving Angel from Valentino might play out. Particularly in how Husk’s status as a former Overlord may factor into things.

Because I have a hunch it’s actually going to be Husk, rather than Charlie who gets fed up first and goes out to make a real attempt at getting Angel away from Valentino, given everything we saw between Husk and Angel in this episode. Specifically, Husk aims to lure Valentino into gambling for Angel’s contract.

Now that raises the question of what exactly Husk could gamble with. I see two possibilities:

Option One, Husk full on bluffs Valentino that he still has substantial power as an Overlord and has been hiding it all this time, tempting him with more souls and power. And as we’ve seen most notably in Episode 2, Val in kind of a massive fucking idiot, so I could see him actually falling for this. Essentially, Husk gambles with nothing, save his own soul, for a chance to save Angel.

Option Two, Husk actually gets his power BACK from Alastor. Specifically through fulfilling some mysterious, nebulous condition Alastor set up for him. It could even be that this is what sets up Husk to gamble Val for Angel’s freedom. Alastor returns Husk’s power as an Overlord because he’s curious as to what Husk will do with it now. Which we see, is putting it all on the line again for a chance to save Angel.

Whichever way we get to it, we find Husk in a high-stakes card game with Valentino. And of course, Husk does the classic trope of NOT telling his friends or even the guy he’s doing this for what he’s doing to ‘keep them safe’ and all that. Of course, they do find out. Which will come into play later…

As for the all-important gamble; Husk actually does WIN legitimately against Valentino. However, because Valentino is… well, Valentino he welches on the deal and attacks Husk, and perhaps a recently arrived Angel as well.

Now in the event that Husk was bluffing Valentino the whole time and is actually helpless against a fully-powered Overlord, this would be when Alastor, from afar, actually returns Husk’s own power as an Overlord as some offhand, magnanimous whim. Which of course now allows Husk to actually fight back against Valentino.

What ensues is a full and proper fight between Husk/Angel and Valentino, with all the requisite emotional drama of Angel and Husk admitting their feelings for each other and all of Valentino’s shittiness as a person coming out in force. Maybe like an mlm version of the Bees vs. Adam fight.

However, despite getting his power as an Overlord back, Husk ultimately turns out to not be as powerful as Valentino. Alternatively, perhaps he never gets his power back at all and we just skip to here from Husk winning the bet. Whichever way we get here, Husk and Angel are now at the non-existent mercy of Valentino.

Which is precisely when CHARLIE shows up.

And I imagine what ensues plays out in a flash. Like everyone is only just registering that Charlie has appeared when suddenly everything is on fire. We get only the briefest glimpses, perhaps only in silhouette, of the full-sized horns on Charlie’s head, the great leathery wings coming out of her back and the pitchfork in her hand before she has Valentino by the throat and the mothman starts BURNING, screaming in pain as he is consumed in hellfire.

Basically, I feel that after this episode we are going to see Husk be the one to step up first to try and save Angel from Valentino, given everything we saw between the pair this episode. But at the same time, I think the interactions between Charlie and Valentino, particularly Charlie starting to transform in rage, sets her up as the one who’s going to ultimately put Val down. Specifically via giving us a glimpse at Charlie’s true power.

And I do say glimpse because I imagine the full and proper reveal of Charlie’s ‘Devil Form’ is almost certainly going to be saved for when she’s forced to take on the likes of Adam and the Exorcists, the ones who have been set-up as proper antagonists to Charlie herself.

[wjkae]

1. Charlie is distraught and scared for Angel. She’ll likely become increasingly determined to free him from Valentino as the season progresses.

2. Alastor is feuding with Vox. He would love to screw Vox over and potentially reap untold power benefits as an overlord.

3. Valentino is obsessed with Angel. He loses it at any hint of losing control over “his favourite toy”.

4. Vox is functionally in charge of Valentino’s meltdowns. Destabilizing Valentino threatens to destabilize all the Vees, especially Vox.

5. The Vees expressed concern in S1E2 about Alastor making a deal with Charlie in her capacity as Lucifer’s daughter.

6. Alastor has canonically attempted to ensnare Charlie in a soul-binding deal before in S1E0. This is possible despite Charlie’s hellborn status.

All that in mind …

What would Princess Charlie Morningstar, heir to the throne of Hell, be willing to trade away to The Radio Demon for Angel’s safety?