#but we don’t go in depth more like literally it’s just been like war on terror & ukraine & the possibility of war w china - but it’s like a

[bibleofficial]

arguably this is worse

[happy74827]

All I Wanted Was You

[Thor Odinson x Female!Reader]

Synopsis: Thor had always been there to protect you, save you, and love you… Until he couldn't.

WC: 3540

Category: Heavy Angst, Some hurt/comfort, mentions of Loki, Hela, and Heimdall {TW warning: Thanos and “evil squidward” — I know his name but I think Tony’s nickname is too iconic}

So I recently rewatched Infinity War, and of course watching Thor cry over losing literally everyone else he cares for in the first 15 minutes of the movie sparked my writer heart {finally} and after listening to Paramore we have this hot mess of angst (also why are all my Thor fics so angsty when he’s the definition of fluff?? I live for the drama I guess)

And just for the record, we don’t talk about the fact that I have thousands of requests and this isn’t even one of them 💀😭

『••✎••』

They say fear lies in the unknown. In the absence of facts and knowledge, the mind creates a world of illusions. If you believe your own fears, they become reality.

So what happens when the thing you fear the most is taken from you? When everything else falls to nothing? When the world is turned upside down?

You're left with a feeling that can only be described as the deepest pain imaginable.

You're left with nothing but your fear.

Your heart was racing so fast, and your breaths were short. You could feel every single muscle in your body tense up as the unnamed alien man dragged you further and further into the unknown.

The trip back to Earth, back to your sanctuary of a home, was nothing but a blur. After everything that had gone down within Asgard, including Asgard's destruction, all you could think about was your lover. Your other half.

Thor.

He was in pain, and not just physically. You had been separated due to his secretive, power-hungry sister, to where he’d left you alone with his kind-hearted people to find his father, only to disappear and leave you alone with the slaughtering of the Asgardians.

The people you’ve met that very day ended up slaughtered by Hela. Some took you by the hand, guiding and shielding you for protection against the God of Death and her henchmen. Others, you could tell, were more than just scared; they were terrified. The ones that were too slow or the ones that decided to fight back were killed within an instant.

You were no warrior. You were a simple, plain human who somehow caught the eye of the mighty Thor Odinson, and for some reason, he was in love with you.

So, while everyone else fought against Hela and her henchmen, you ran. Thor had left you there in assurance of your safety, thinking the search for his father with Loki, of all people, would be too risky for you, but in reality, you would have rather been with him. At least then, if you were to die, you could have been in the arms of the one you love.

Miraculously, you had survived the fall of Asgard and the escape from Surtur. You had no clue how. Maybe you were just lucky, or perhaps it was the grace of the Allfather. Even Heimdall, the man who saw everything, didn’t see you making it out alive.

But, when Thor had found you in the throne room cornered by some henchmen, it became a fact that Heimdall couldn’t see everything; after all.

The moment your eyes had met, the moment you heard the sound of metal against flesh, the moment his strong, powerful, protective arms wrapped around your fragile, vulnerable, weak form, and the moment his lips kissed the top of your head, you were safe.

Safe.

The only time you felt genuinely safe was when you were with Thor. His mere presence made you feel at ease. Like nothing could ever touch you or hurt you because he wouldn't let it.

He would protect you no matter the cost. He’d die for you, give his life for you, and go to the depths of Hell and back for you. He loved you, and that was something you could never understand.

Why would such a mighty god, a king, and a warrior want to love a simple human like yourself? A clumsy one at that.

You weren’t special in any way. You were ordinary.

But Thor, he was extraordinary.

The God of Thunder, a king and a warrior, a prince and a protector.

He was everything you were not.

It wasn't just the physical things that made him great, too, but the things that were inside.

Thor was a good man. A caring man. One who always thought about others and not himself.

Thor had his moments, yes, but no one is perfect. Not even a god. But the thing that made you love him, that made you want him, and the thing that made you feel safe was his heart.

That was the only part of him you could understand. The way he cared. The way he loved. The way he could make anyone smile. The way he could bring light to anyone's dark.

That's what makes a man a man. And that's why you loved him.

Even now, with one eye, a missing hammer, and a lost kingdom, he was still your everything.

And now you were reunited after being separated again. The only problem was the circumstances.

You and Thor had been in an intimate moment. The relief of having you back in his arms, the adrenaline pumping through your veins from surviving such a tragedy, had you both desperate.

He had pinned you against the wall, his hands brushing your hair away from your face to get a better look at you before he pressed his lips to yours in a soft kiss. He was always so gentle with you. The teasing and playful nips at your bottom lip were proof of that.

But the sudden sight of a ship out the large window you’d stared out of moments before the kiss broke your concentration.

Thor had pulled apart almost immediately, the feeling of his beard no longer tickling your face, but the heat of his breath and the sweet taste of his lips was still there.

It didn't take long before Thor was following your eyes, seeing for himself what had pulled you from him.

A sense of dread washed over you when you noticed how he tensed and his grip on your waist tightened. This wasn’t another Asgardian ship; no, this was something far more dangerous. You could tell by the look in Thor's eye, his non-missing eye.

Then, within seconds, he grabbed hold of your arm and yanked you out of the room. Your heart was pounding as you started yelling questions at him, trying to understand what was going on.

But, when he hit the button that sealed the room you were once in and shielded you within his arms, the panic started to set in.

That's when everything began to blur.

You remembered the sound of explosions. The tearing of metal. The screams. The smell of burning.

It all came crashing down.

Loki had come around the corner, and seeing his expression, it didn’t take much to realize what was going on.

If Loki, the God of Mischief and Lies, was terrified, then that meant something big was going down.

Thor was yelling orders, shouting commands. You could barely make out what he was saying, but you knew he was telling you to stay behind him.

Stay behind him.

Always stay behind him.

Then it changed to get the hell off the ship.

Then, to run.

Run.

Run.

Run.

The last thing you remember was looking back as you sprinted down the halls, seeing your love, your other half, the king, the prince, the protector, your Thor, fighting some creature with his bare hands.

His face was so determined. He wasn’t going down without a fight. You ran to where he had told you to go, the escape pods where Val was helping others into. You got there and saw her eyes. They were wide and full of worry.

Something was wrong. Something was terribly wrong.

The sound of an explosion brought you back to the present.

Val grabbed you by the wrist and dragged you toward a pod. You could feel the adrenaline pumping through your veins and, your heart was racing so fast, and your breaths were short.

All you could think about was Thor. Where was he? Was he alright?

No.

He was not.

As soon as you entered the pod and Val had closed you in it, it was suddenly torn apart. The supposed sliding door had been ripped from its hinges.

The metal that you rested your back upon started to give, and the feeling of moving forward caused your heart to leap.

You were launched out and onto the floor.

It took a second to gain your bearings. You looked up and saw Val. She was fighting, and you were thankful to see her, but it was a short-lived relief.

The… thing she was fighting, the blue alien, grabbed hold of her and flung her across the ship. She landed somewhere near a pod and didn't move. You remembered screaming for her, but she didn't budge.

That's when the creature turned his attention to you.

You tried to move, but the metal that was supposed to hold the pod in place had you pinned.

You tried to pry the metal from your skin, but your weak and vulnerable body couldn’t break the bond.

The alien slowly moved towards you and, in a swift movement, had ripped the metal away.

He was so close, and you had no idea what was going on, who he was, or what his intentions were.

When you felt his large, rough, and cold hand wrap around the back of your neck, panic started to set in. You wanted to kick and scream, but all you could do was stare at the beast before you.

And thus, you were dragged away from the evacuation site and thrown into a separate area. You came to the conclusion that whoever this was, it seemed to be a metal bender or something similar due to his abilities.

All you saw was a demented blue face with squid-like features, staring down at you as he threw you around like a rag doll.

The fifth time he threw you, you landed roughly on the floor, causing your shoulder to make a loud crack noise and the pain to shoot through your body. Your hands landed on something soft, softer than the floor, and when you looked down, you realized the blue thing had thrown you into a room full of corpses.

But it wasn’t just any corpses. The one you had specifically landed upon had been the body of the man you had recently become close friends with, Thor’s friend, Heimdall.

Tears immediately pooled in your eyes, and your breathing became ragged. You tried to sit up and pull your body off of Heimdall in respect, but the pain shooting through your arm and back kept you frozen in place.

The lifeless eyes of the man who saw everything were open, and for once, he was staring at nothing. It was a haunting image.

The tears were now falling, and a sob escaped your lips. You wanted to curl up into a ball and cry. You wanted to scream and shout. You wanted to fight and claw at the alien that took until it bled. But all you could do was lay there, unable to move and weep.

Then, a voice caught your attention. It was deep, and it was coming from the alien that had brought you to this place.

His eyes were no longer focused on you, but they were somewhere else. He was talking to someone.

“Boss,” it spoke, his voice deep and gravelly. You couldn’t bear to look at the being. Not when you were face to face with the lifeless body of the gatekeeper. “There’s a human woman here. A pathetic one, no doubt, but one nonetheless. Should we end her? Or leave her to rot like the others?"

A silence filled the air, and you had no idea what was going on, who he was speaking with, or who was giving him instructions. You could’ve looked. You could have glanced up at the thing, and seen for yourself, but you too were afraid.

Your eyes remained glued to the golden ones that were once filled with light and wisdom.

There was silence, and then a loud, deep, thump. It had startled you, but it wasn't anything like the explosion of the ship, no, it sounded more like a boot or a shoe had come in contact with metal. But, it was loud enough to grab your attention.

You didn’t move. Your eyes didn't stray.

But, your body trembled in fear.

Suddenly, you heard his voice, and it sounded more terrifying than any sound that had echoed in the air prior. It was even deeper, and even more frightening than the other.

“I think not. We have use of her."

He had a deep and gravelly voice, but it was smooth. Calm. Almost friendly.

Then, a large, purple foot, appeared in your vision, and slowly, the purple being leaned down and stared at you. His gaze was strong, and piercing. You wanted to look away, but you couldn’t. You were too terrified to move, speak, or breathe.

Again, it wasn’t human. It was an alien. And a big one, at that.

He had no hair, only a helmet. His skin was purple and he wore strange looking clothing, including a golden glove that had both a bright purple stone and a blue one.

You’ve never seen such a creature before. You thought those dark elves were terrifying, but they were nothing compared to this man.

And for some reason, he was looking at you like you were an ant, and he was the boot that would crush you.

In fact, he was looking at you with pity, and it confused the hell out of you.

But, when his hand moved, and his fingers had touched the soft strand of your hair, you couldn't help but flinch.

The moment his fingers made contact with you, though, you heard a loud grunt. One that didn’t sound alienated or distorted. It was clear, and you could tell who it was, instantly.

Your head shot up, ignoring the pain in your arm, and the moment your eyes met his, everything stopped.

Everything.

It was Thor.

Your Thor. Your everything.

He was in front of you the entire time, and you had no clue.

The tears were falling. They were falling hard and fast, and you couldn’t stop them. And for once, it wasn’t because of relief.

Thor was encased with metal. His arms and legs were pinned by it. He was bleeding from his head, and he was covered in bruises.

He looked like hell and gave off the same energy.

He was struggling to free himself. That’s what the sounds were. The grunts, the heavy breathing, and the loud thumping. He was trying to get out of his prison to get to you. To save you.

The alien was staring down at you. His eyes were dark and intimidating, but his presence was even more so. He was the embodiment of terror.

Then, without any warning, he grabbed you by the throat.

It was an unexpected move. He had picked you up by the neck with just one hand. He had a grip so tight you couldn't breathe, and the pressure on your throat was unbearable.

You could hear Thor screaming. Yelling.

You could barely hear what he was saying. Your ears were ringing, and the pain of the hand wrapped around your throat was all you could focus on.

But, you could see him. You could see him perfectly.

You saw his blue eye and the patch that covered the missing one. You saw the stubble along his chin. The slight scar that was just below the patch. The wrinkles on his forehead.

You could see it all.

And the look of desperation and horror. It broke you.

You couldn’t take it anymore. It was too much.

Then, in the blink of an eye, you felt release.

You fell to the floor and started gasping for air. It was like the moment the alien released his grip on you, everything began again. The world, your thoughts, the chaos.

It was all there, and you couldn’t keep up.

“I see it now.” You heard the voice of the alien say. Your vision was blurry, and your eyes were still stinging from the tears, but you could make him out if only a bit.

He was now standing, towering over you, but he wasn’t looking at you. No, he was looking at Thor; his eyes were focused on the god, which sent a chill down your spine.

When dealing with Hela, you find yourself recovering with confidence. She could’ve easily killed you with a snap of her finger, but when she demanded your name, you had spat in her face and gave a smile.

Even though Thor wasn’t there at that moment, you somehow knew he’d be coming back to put an end to her, and you would be safe. It was like a sixth sense that came and made you stop panicking and running.

And, even though he technically didn’t put her down, he still was your knight in shining armor. It was the same with the dark elves and even with Loki.

They were all terrifying, yes, but somehow, you knew that Thor would save the day.

Now, though, it was different. You weren’t scared or panicked; no, you were terrified.

The fact that Thor was trapped and was physically in pain, the fact that Heimdall and more innocent Asgardians were lying on the floor, dead, and the fact that Loki was missing and Val was knocked unconscious, it had all hit you at once.

You felt like you were suffocating, and it only worsened when the alien spoke again.

“I was questioning why a mortal was amongst a group of Asgardians, how such a fragile being could survive so long among gods. I wondered, but I see it now. You have been blessed by one, and the last, of Odin's children."

The alien's attention was back on you, and the intensity of his gaze had you trembling. He was staring at you, looking through you, and reading you like a book.

"What a pitiful yet fortunate creature you are."

It was like the oxygen had been sucked from your lungs, and when he moved, you found yourself flinching and scooting backward.

He had leaned down again, and his large hand had grabbed the side of your face. The feeling of his skin on yours made your skin crawl, and the urge to vomit was growing.

Thor wasn’t having it. He was thrashing about; the metal that was encasing his body was bending and stretching with each move.

His cries of anger and the desperation in his eyes were heartbreaking. And it was only shut up by the alien who had taken you. A piece of metal flew to Thor’s mouth and held it in place, preventing him from yelling.

More grunts and muffled noises could be heard from the god, but you could no longer see him now. The purple man was blocking your view.

But, despite that, he was still talking to Thor.

"It is a shame, Thor Odinson. I take pity on the both of you, and I apologize, for it seems that fate has not been kind to either of you. But, we must make sacrifices. It is unfortunate that your beloved had to be one of them."

Then, suddenly, the alien turned his gaze back to you, and his dark eyes bore into yours. He was staring directly into your soul.

"Fear not, small child,” he said, his voice sounding almost calm. “You will not have to endure the pain and suffering as I did.”

The words that left his mouth did not give you comfort. It was quite the opposite.

Thor came back into your viewpoint as the purple man had moved, and when your eyes met his, all you saw was a mixture of panic and despair.

Thor's expression had you feeling a type of way. You could feel your stomach sink.

You weren’t dumb. You were far from it.

You knew where this was going, and your mind was screaming, screaming for you to do something, anything.

Run.

Fight.

Scream.

Just do something.

But all you did was stare. Stare at the man that you loved. The man that loved you. The man who had saved you countless times.

But he couldn’t save you now, even when you cried out his name in a soft voice, that frail, humane part of you begging him with your eyes to stop this from happening.

To stop it from hurting.

He couldn’t.

All he could do was look at you, look as you were taken. Look as you were pulled away from him.

All he could do was stare and scream.

It was the loudest, most horrific sound you had ever heard. It was worse than the explosion.

It was worse than anything.

It was the cry of a man who had just lost the last thing that gave him purpose.

It was the sound of a god being torn to pieces.

And it was all because of you.

That was the last thing you heard. That was the last image that burned itself into your brain.

The sound of Thor and his desperate screams was the last thing you remembered.

Everything after that was darkness.

No memories, no thoughts, nothing.

Just darkness.

All he wanted was you.

All he needed was you.

And now, all he had left was the memory of you: that and his broken heart.

[starbeltconstellation]

I don’t think they are bad and some survived order 66 Quinlan Vos was one of them. But I do believe they lost their way by the end of the clone wars because most lost their way or watered down their beliefs becoming to caught up in image and pandering to the senate (palps *cough*) even yoda said basically that a dark shroud surround them (Sith made) but they made themselves susceptible to it with arrogance, becoming inflexible, and a strange combo of attachment and detachment. Even mace windu was attached to the republic which is one of the reasons he was so defensive and disliked Anakin he saw him as a threat to his republic.

I’m not trying to hate on the Jedi just make sure that in discussing the Jedi we remember the good and bad. The Jedi did a lot of good, they made one of the longest major peace times the galaxy had ever seen, that’s 1000 years of peace time after ending the Sith war. And actually Luke skywalker, Ezra Bridger, Ahsoka (rebellion), and season 4 Kanan were prime examples of what the Jedi were originally. I just think when palpatine started pulling strings and corrupting everything to take power it made slow brewing Jedi problems 10x worse as some Jedi like Barriss Offee’s master mixed up avoiding negative attachment with being cold and callous because while a Jedi master should avoid “possessive” attachment especially in a way that would hold their student back they should have a good bond with them because emotional bonds are one of the pillars of trust.

-that’s my take, I’m not sure what you meant by no Jedi haters though. So if this crosses your line then I’m sorry I can see myself out cause I don’t want to start a conflict 😅

Hello, anon. 👋

Firstly, I just want to DEEPLY apologize for the long wait in my response. 😅🤦‍♀️ I try not to get behind on asks, but life has been crazy for me at the moment, and especially with longer asks like yours, I really want to take my time and give a good and in depth response.

Now, just right off the bat: I don’t mind discussing things. As long as it doesn’t get nasty and full of insults. So I’m not about to bite your head off.

In fact, I am going to take the time to use your ask to refute all of these critical/anti Jedi points, proving how most of it is Palpatine’s propaganda that the galactic citizens/SW fandom has grown to believe because it’s easier to have a big bad scapegoat (ie; the Jedi boogie man) than for galactic citizens to grapple with the fact that they themselves are also a part of the problem because THEY are the ones who vote in politicians in the Senate (who are a lot corrupt, except like a handful like Mon Mothma/Bail Organa/Riyo Chuchi/Padmé/etc. And even Padmé wasn’t a complete saint like a lot of fans think, since she purposely hid Anakin’s Tusken massacre just because she didn’t want to give up her new hot murder husband who was obsessively adoring over her/loved her), and THEY are the ones who also got the most complacent, are they not? After all… if the fandom blames the JEDI… why didn’t the CITIZENS clock anything wrong until suddenly an Empire was telling them to hand over all their freedoms or die?

It’s really easy to sit back and say what you would’ve done in the Jedi’s position, because the audience has more information than they do. What Dooku and Qui-Gon told them is the equivalent of being told they saw a unicorn (Sith) in the wild. It’s not that out there that there’d be some doubts from the Council, and people seem to forget that the Council STILL said they’d look into it. But they aren’t magic. They can’t just snap their fingers and see that Palpatine is the Sith Lord. Especially with the Darkness cloaking their Force senses. I think it’s kinda… gross? To blame them for something Palpatine was causing (the cloaking Darkness) that was literally part of the plan to genocide them. Just a thought, but maybe that should be Palpatine’s and Anakin’s fault, where it belongs? Lol. Sorry if I sound a little snippy, it’s just this is a tired and running around in circles argument (although I do think your ask is a genuine one, which is why I’m taking the time to answer it and perhaps if not change YOUR mind, then change someone else’s that might read this. I’m trying to reach more across the aisle here, because both sides I’ll admit have moments where they only want to be defensive and not explain their positions).

It’s funny how people always point out that the Jedi missed brewing corruption (they totally knew about it and tried to fight against it how they could. But just like in real life, I’m unsure what people expect from them. To strut into the Senate and threaten/murder the politicians into submission? Because ya know… that was kinda the red flag Anakin gave off with that “They should be made to!” line to Padmé. Just saying. 🤷‍♀️ Just like anyone, Jedi know the politicians of the Republic are slowly being corrupt (just like MOST politicians in real life, and you don't see everyone condemning all US citizens because we don't go clean them out like assassins or something), but there isn't anything they can do about that unless you expect them to go in and wave their lightsabers around to threaten the politicians into submission. As if Palpatine wouldn't immediately twist that into his favor to say they were "trying to take over the Republic". (And oh wait—he did that in the movies! Funny how that works, huh?)

What I think is interesting about you and about a lot of Jedi fans (including LH, who is the writer of The Acolyte) is that you THINK you’re being “fair” to the Jedi, but you’re kinda… not? 🤷‍♀️😅 And I’m not saying that as an insult. I’m saying it because it’s true.

Let me explain: There are rabid anti Jedi fans known as the infamous Karen Travis’s who is basically a rapid and foaming at the mouth Jedi anti who believes they “got what was coming to them.🤢🥶” LH on the other hand (at least in HER head), views herself as Jedi CRITICAL (which is something you clearly view yourself as as well. And there’s nothing wrong with being Jedi critical. The problem is that a lot of times this “criticism” becomes condescending, whether intentional or not, despite maybe the person’s best intentions). And while there is a little bit of a difference there, it’s not as stark a line as fans would try to convince us pro Jedi’s to believe.

As I mentioned to someone else in my other ask: there are plenty of fair criticisms about the Jedi that I can acknowledge: the Shimi thing, for one, which is I think just a bad symptom of GL’s writing being more “metaphorical” than literal. Shimi HAS to stay on Tatooine because Anakin eventually HAS to murder the Tuskens in cold blood so GL can tell the story he wants to tell of how Anakin can’t let go, and so the Jedi are never given the opportunity to do what I truly BELIEVE they would’ve done, which is go back and free her, at least for the peace of mind of one of their newest initiate. The plot literally physically bars them from doing so.

And even THIS is not without its flaws, because they would ONLY have wiggle room to free Shimi after the heat of TPM problems had died down where they had time to do so… while walking past/avoiding eye contact with all of Shimi’s slave neighbors, because as specified before—The Jedi have no jurisdiction in the Outer Rim, and you bet your ass if they freed all those slaves and started a war with the Hutts with their little 10,000 strong army, the Republic would take one look and go “Lol, good luck with that,” and not help them at all, which would be basically suicide for the Order to try and accomplish on abolishment of slavery on the Outer Rim all on their own in the TRILLIONS of people in the galaxy. They do not have the MAN POWER for that. Not without the Senate army/clones. So how can they be blamed for this? WHY are one of the “space minorities” of the galaxy being blamed for something that should be the POLITICIANS’S job? Can you not see the double standard here? Genuinely asking, anon, because it’s always baffled me.

People want the Jedi to do something about it? Get on the Senate’s ass about it then—the REAL people who are responsible for all of the shit going wrong in the Outer Rim while they line their pockets and kiss up to clueless galactic citizens for votes come election time. THEY are the ones that should be responsible for the problems of an ENTIRE galaxy—not a small little minority group (which I’ve already come to realize that the Jedi are. They are a culture/religion/family, and 10,000 is but a drop in the ocean of the galaxy. They are so small in the grand scheme of things that it’s SCARY when considering how easy it was for Palpatine to lead them to almost total annihilation) that try and try and TRY as hard as they can, which is apparently somehow NEVER enough, for the galactic citizens AND the SW fandom itself.

And why is that? Why is it so HARD for SW fandom to relate to them? Why does LH (who I’m sure in her head BELIEVES she’s as progressive as they come, just as I genuinely believe you had the best intentions when reaching across the aisle to send me this ask, but at the end of the day still comes across frankly exhausting and a little condescending when you pick out the “good Jedi blorbos” who are ones that deserve to live and don’t have to be dehumanized as “emotionless/cold/callous” like you just did with Luminara just because Luminara chose to grieve in a way you and Anakin and many other rabid Anakin fans/anti Jedi’s view as lesser than) view the Jedi as some type of “space cops” who are “oppressing 🙄” the Sith as a representation of her religious trauma that she is clearly projecting onto them as something completely separate than what the Jedi Culture actually is? Why does she view them as “emotionally repressed” and “almost catholic-like”, and views the fucking SITH (literal SPACE NAZIS 😭🤦‍♀️) as a representation for her persecution as a gay woman?

It’s because—just like MOST SW fans in the US—she cannot fathom a culture outside of the lens of western philosophy. In her mind, the Jedi aren’t a “real 🙄🤢” family. In HER mind, the Jedi aren’t necessarily evil, but she still believes those “poor little culty Jedi ���💔🙄” didn’t see they were ‘sewing their own destruction’. (Which is blaming them. It’s BLAMING the victims of genocide, and it’s to this day the most disgusting thing I will always remember about the show’s “your actions will cause the destruction of every Jedi in the galaxy” quote that made Twitter go wild with genocide apologia galore).

I’m not gonna repeat everything in the post I made to the other anon (this ask response is long enough already), but I’ll link it here in case you want to read it, because I do have some examples screenshotted of certain SW fandom dehumanizing the Jedi and showing genocide apologia, which proves that pro Jedi’s critique/defensiveness for the Jedi Order and their culture isn’t an overreaction or without basis, because it proves that blaming the Jedi for their own genocide is the NORM, even if people won’t admit so outright (still can’t believe The Acolyte just outright SAID it. I’m not gonna rub fans’s of the show’s faces in it, but because of that line alone, I’m SO glad that show was cancelled. Anti Jedi propaganda is already bad enough).

Also, I’m sorry to tell you this, anon, but the Mace Windu thing is just straight up wrong. I have never understood this Mace thing with the fandom. People act like Mace was personally bullying Anakin every damn day. Mace didn’t even hate Anakin. Just because Mace was a little stern with Anakin and didn't worship the ground he walked on didn't mean he hated/disliked him/was jealous of him (a frankly childish notion, in my opinion). They both just had different views over how to be a Jedi and in battle strategies during the war. It was never personal with Mace. Anakin MADE it personal, because he always took not being told "yes" personally, like it was a slight against him. He didn’t see Anakin as a threat to the Republic until literally the last free day of democracy when he looked at him and saw a giant shatterpoint all around Anakin. I think that would give any Jedi pause. Lol.

Mace was a fine Jedi who treated Anakin just fine. Just because he didn’t worship the ground Anakin walked on or treated him like God’s gift doesn’t mean that Mace was a bad person or Anakin was a “poor little guy” getting bullied by him. The thing with Mace refusing Anakin a seat on the Council is overblown. Frankly: Anakin didn’t DESERVE a seat on the Council. He might’ve been a powerful Jedi, but he was still hot headed and reckless and still had a lot to learn. And his temper tantrum when he didn’t get his way did him no favors either (look, I LOVE Anakin, but I’m not gonna be delusional about his faults, okay? Most of his problems were caused because he built them up out of thin air. He built up this rivalry with Mace in his head, when Mace was busy with his own life. Mace was not “out to get Anakin” or something. That’s—as kindly as I can say—something children tell themselves when angry at parents who tell them “no”, which Mace did a lot with Anakin). And I’m not gonna lie, anon. People have always seemed extra hard on Mace specifically, and while it might not be all of it, I think there’s a part of racism mixed in there with a proud black Jedi that isn’t afraid to stand up to the white and emo and hot future serial killer in the making (my hot Anakin! 🥰🥰😂). I’m not saying YOU specifically are being racist, but I’m just pointing out something that I’ve always felt reeked around the fandom opinion of Mace (more from the SW YouTube dudebro side of the fandom, but still).

I’m not gonna go and explain a play by play of all my points, because I got in a argument/discussion with someone on YouTube the other day (even though I know it’s bad for my blood pressure 😬😤😂), and I feel like the points I made there are perfect as a main response for this ask, so I’m going to place the screenshots here. This whole online debate came about when I was watching a SW lore video on Leia visiting Anakin’s grave after the ROTJ celebration and telling him she doesn’t forgive him, and one of the commentators called her a “brat”, which pissed me off. Lol. But anyway, we’ve been going back and forth the past few days, and I’ve basically made a mini pro Jedi manifesto, so I think all of the screenshots will answer most of your questions and also refute them to show how they are inaccurate and more of a fandom opinion that’s only come about because fans like Anakin and want to twist themselves into knots to blame everyone for his problems but him.

Here are all of the online person’s screenshots: you’ll notice how eventually he tries to justify Anakin killing the younglings as a “mercy”. 🥶🥶🤢 Yikes.

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Here are my responses:

Damn. Apparently there’s a screenshot limit. 😭 I’ll copy paste the rest:

Leia had every right to come and get closure if she needed to. Anakin personally tortured her himself after all. She has a personal stake in this through being tortured by their own FATHER that Luke doesn't have. Whether she wanted to go to make sure the person she viewed as a monster was dead, or to try and get some closure from what Luke had told her, it was within her rights to do so. She understood EVERYTHING perfectly. She knew who Anakin had been for years before the last five minutes of his death, and that was someone who'd terrorized the galaxy.

Lol, Anakin wasn't "fulfilling the will of The Force" as his reign on the Dark Side for 20 something years. He fulfilled the will of the Force when he finally got off his ass and killed Palpatine to end the last of the Sith. It's a copout to pretend any of his other actions were anything but his own choice, otherwise his 'redemption' means squat. She doesn't owe him anything just because he stopped the horror by killing Palpatine. It's the LEAST he could've done. You seem to believe that one action somehow should buy Anakin forgiveness in the eyes of all of his victims, and if they don't forgive him, then they're "brats" or something. Redemption doesn't work like that. You don't do the right thing because you'll get something out of it. You do it to be selfless and because it's simply the right thing to do. And I can tell you that Anakin would probably disagree with your opinion on Leia being a "brat" himself once he was back on the Light Side, because the whole point is that he'd be REPENTANT. Not being arrogant and expecting blind forgiveness for things that are quite frankly unforgivable.

Luke's forgiveness is a GIFT. It is NOT something that has to be the norm, and Leia is no less because she chooses not to forgive Anakin. She has every right to never view him as her father till her dying days.

Anakin had EVERYTHING to do with the explosion of Alderaan. This BS certain fans spout of "that was Tarkin" is nonsense. Anakin had agency. He could've tried to stop Tarkin or tried to leave the Empire way before that moment. Just because it was hard, he chose not to. EVERYONE on board the Death Star that weren't prisoners are responsible for the destruction of Alderaan. And yes, that includes Anakin. As I said before, Tarkin would only be given the highest sentence in court because he chose to order the planet destroyed. But Anakin would still be charged right along with him in a court of law. Just because Anakin had a traumatic life, doesn't excuse the things he's done. That's like saying a school shooter/serial killer has no agency over killing their victims just because they had a “hard life.” It’s a frankly illogical argument.

Anakin as 'Vader' could've choked Tarkin out right there. Who's gonna stop him? He's survived dozens of enemies in the comics. Him not having "authority" is a copout. Anakin was given plenty of authority in the Empire. He was just still Palpatine's lapdog at the end of the day. Hell—he could've grew a spine and left the Empire years BEFORE that moment. He does not get a free pass for "following orders".

Lol, Anakin does NOT have borderline personality disorder. That’s a fanon theory. That is NOT actually canon and George never said that. GL says Anakin fell because of his greed for power to never feel weak like he did as a child and because he was afraid to let go. The Jedi didn't fail him. He failed THEM. He's the one who fucking genocided them after all. Their entire culture is literally mental empathy because they're space wizards. There were times when Yoda and Obi-Wan all but BEG Anakin to open his mouth and say what's wrong, and he either refuses or is so vague that there's no way to glean what his main problem is (when Anakin talks to Yoda about Padmé and won't just ADMIT it's about Padmé). People can't help you if you don't meet them halfway. Anakin refused to do that. That's on him. Not on any of his victims. And even if he DID have borderline personality disorder (which is just a fanon theory), he'd STILL be responsible for his actions. It's amazing how much fans blame everyone else under the sun than the man who choked his wife. Lol.

I don't think Anakin is emotionless or incapable of care or goodness. That's the whole point of Luke, after all. I simply deny not giving him the agency to make his own decisions. He WAS a monster. What else do you call killing little kids who beg for your help? But the point of Luke is that Anakin ALWAYS had the opportunity to turn from his actions and be better. He just didn't find the spine until ROTJ. And that's great! He turned back to the light and his soul found salvation. But he is NOT redeemed in the eyes of anyone but Luke. It's laughable to think otherwise or that he wouldn't have been executed if he'd survived. And it's illogical to blame his victims and call them "brats" just because they won't forgive someone who was once basically space Hitler.

Despite what you may think, I love Anakin's character and the tragedy of him. I love that he found salvation in the end. But I DESPISE treating him like a child who didn't know what he was doing. He knew. He was selfish for twenty years. LUKE is who taught him how to be selfless. Everything else is on him. You can't call him the greatest 'redemption' of all time and then blame everyone else for his actions.

Because then what is there to redeem?

Nothing.

You can't have both. Pick one. 🤷‍♀️

What does it matter that Anakin as 'Vader' knew that Palpatine wouldn't praise Tarkin for such a cruel and useless thing in destroying a planet just to look a little tough? That doesn't mean shit. Just because Tarkin eventually gets what was coming to him, doesn't mean that Anakin couldn't have sped up Tarkin's demise right there. Good actions don't work like that: "Oh, it didn't really matter that he didn't try to save Alderaan! Because in the end Tarkin gets his karma!" (Anakin gets his karma too, by the way. You could argue from his burns or the fact that the only way he can 'redeem' himself is through dying by killing Palpatine).

I'm not sure what argument your making on if Anakin could've "talked" Tarkin into another way to get Leia to talk to betray the Rebels. I'm arguing that if he—or YOU—expected Leia's "forgiveness", then it implies there should've been some level where he could've done something different. I'm arguing he could've left the Empire years earlier if he'd grown a spine, or he could've Force choked Tarkin out right there and got him and Leia out of there somehow. Who's gonna stop him? No lowly soldier on board the Death Star could stand in his way. Palpatine would be miles away at that point.

He could've done something different. Fans just argue he was "helpless" in the sense that they don't want Anakin to be selfless to give anything up. The excuse that he was "stuck" and "had nothing left" is BS. Deep down, Anakin knows if he found Obi-Wan and repented that Obi-Wan would take him back. There's a whole arc about it in a comic when he's trying to bleed a Kyber Krystal. He just doesn't do it because he's too depressed and selfish to admit he screwed up his own life. He pretended for 20 years everyone betrayed him, when really it was the other way around, and that was too horrific to contemplate, so he pretended he was another person, when clearly he's still the same guy, only horrifically injured under the mask. He can only admit the truth after Luke offers him blind forgiveness.

It doesn't really matter that psychologists have "diagnosed" Anakin. He isn't a real person. He's a character that was written with a narrative purpose by GL. And GL was clear when he says the reasons Anakin does what he does is because he's greedy for power to not feel weak again and also because he's too afraid to let go. The writer of the character knows better actually. Isn't that what SW fans always say with GL?

Jedi are literally space Buddhists that GL describes as "empathetic space monks." Part of their culture is literally to be connected to all life around them. It's laughable to say they wouldn't understand a "simple person" in the galaxy. That's literally what they're taught to do in the Temple. Before the war, they were Advisors/ mediators.

Anakin had a fondness for Qui-Gon, but he did trust Obi-Wan. Maybe not enough to mention Padmé (he didn't trust ANYONE with that except apparently Rex, and l'm almost certain Rex found out on accident, because Anakin definitely doesn't care about Rex as much as he did Ahsoka), but he DID trust him. And he cared for Obi-Wan greatly. Just not more than his own wants and needs apparently. But that's true when it comes to Anakin choosing himself over all of his friends and family at the end of ROTS. The Jedi would've helped Anakin if he'd just ASKED without being so damn vague. Maybe they wouldn't have let him stay in the Order, but it's not like he'd be kicked out the door immediately. But Anakin wanted his cake and to eat it too, so he didn't tell him about his wife because he wanted to keep the power of being a Jedi. And guess what? The Jedi don't OWE one man the power to change their entire culture just for him.

There isn't anything wrong with having a set of rules for beliefs. Priests can't marry either. That doesn't make them “emotionless robots” that are “incapable of understanding human emotion” or understanding a struggling man's thoughts. As I said before, the Jedi cannot help Anakin if he doesn't ASK. You cannot condemn them in one breath for not helping him, while at the same time saying that it's fine Anakin didn't explain his problems with them, because they should've just been able to read his mind. It's hypocritical.

Obi-Wan had no other options but to follow Padmé to find Anakin. He NEEDED to find Anakin, because Anakin was fucking dangerous at that point in time, and had just helped genocide an entire culture. Not exactly father/husband material at that point. And even then, in the movies Obi-Wan doesn't reveal himself until it's clear Anakin isn't going to listen to Padmé. It's ludicrous to think if Padme kept arguing with Anakin that Anakin still wouldn't have strangled her in anger in that moment. Again, it appears somehow you're trying to put off this transgression he's committed on someone else again, and I cannot fathom why. It makes him far less interesting that way if he was just a "poor guy" who couldn't control himself.

What I find interesting is you can admit that Anakin doesn't have the information the audience does, which is why he thinks Palpatine is kind and is his friend, but you show no grace towards the Jedi, calling them "arrogant" for not realizing the Sith had slowly popped back up, as if they are somehow supposed to have the audience's information. The truth is that they don't.

Just like anyone, they know the politicians of the Republic are slowly being corrupt (just like MOST politicians in real life, and you don't see everyone condemning all US citizens because we don't go clean them out like assassins or something), but there isn't anything they can do about that unless you expect them to go in and wave their lightsabers around to threaten the politicians into submission. As if Palpatine wouldn't immediately twist that into his favor to say they were "trying to take over the Republic". (And oh wait—he did that in the movies! 🤷‍♀️ Funny how that works, huh?)

It doesn't matter if Anakin didn't "want" to kill kids/the Tuskens/betray Mace and his Jedi friends. What does that matter? What does it matter if he felt bad while doing it if he still DOES it? You wouldn't say a school shooter wasn't responsible for their actions just because they were sobbing the whole time they went around slaughtering everyone in the school. Anakin's responsible for his own actions, and just because he might feel "bad" doesn't let him off the hook. Even when he was masquerading as 'Vader.' Who cares if he was miserable 24/7? l’ll tell you his victims sure didn't when he decapitated them with his lightsaber or snapped their spines.

I'm not arguing about the people that forgave Anakin. I'm arguing over condemning people as "brats" that don't. (I personally think it's a copout to have Leia forgive him after reading some diary, so l'm glad at the least apparently new canon has her taking her entire life to get there). My point is there is nothing that makes Anakin's victims any less if they choose not to forgive him, because forgiveness is a GIFT. It isn't something you're owed. It's funny fans keep pretending he's owed that while condemning all of the Jedi as "arrogant", because I can't think of anything more arrogant than a man who was formerly one of the worst monsters in the galaxy thinking he's "owed" forgiveness. And just as I mentioned before, the Anakin after he came back to the Light wouldn't even agree with such a notion. He may ASK. But he wouldn't call Leia a "brat" for it. It's ridiculous to think that after the horror he'd personally committed to her.

I don't really care what your thoughts are on "Darth Mouse" as that's not what this conversation is about. GL describes Palpatine as the Devil, which is why Anakin can be turned back to the Light and Palpatine can't. But there is NO DOUBT that Anakin as 'Darth Vader' is seen as 'space Hitler' throughout internet culture (the Empire/the Sith is LITERALLY based off of Nazis). If you'd take a moment to google it you would see it's already a huge staple of internet culture. That doesn't make him emotionless or without goodness (he saved Luke, after all), but it IS still true. I don't see what's so hard about acknowledging his atrocities. He was a cruel and horrible monster for most of his life, and it only makes Luke's actions all the more miraculous when he somehow gets through to Anakin and makes him consider a heel face turn in the final hour.

Lol, honestly I also think you're a pretty strange person calling one of Anakin's torture victims a "brat" just because she didn't forgive him like dear saintly Luke. There is no shame in being kind like Luke (it helped him win after all), but there is NOTHING that makes Leia a bad person for not forgiving Anakin. I think you don't seem to contemplate just how BAD that is. Her FATHER tortured her for apparently HOURS. We have no idea just what he said and did to her during this time. He could've taunted her, for all we know. And I know, I know, you might say "He didn't know she was his daughter! 🤪🤪 " But that's not the POINT. The point is how he was cruel, and only seemed care when he realized she was his flesh and blood. Anakin's lucky Leia didn't spit on his grave. Because she WASN'T consumed by her anger to the point it was unhealthy. She just didn't forgive him and never viewed him as her father as long as she lived (because BAIL ORGANA was her father in all but blood). And that is within her rights. As I keep stating, Anakin is not OWED anything. His actions at the end of ROTJ are the LEAST he can do. He should be GRATEFUL to the opportunity Luke gave him and how Obi-Wan and Yoda were saintly enough to forgive him and help him become a Force ghost, because he quite frankly didn't deserve it. But salvation isn't always about what people deserve. Just like forgiveness, it's a gift. Anakin received a gift from Luke and Obi-Wan—but he is NOT owed it from Leia. And she isn't a "brat" for not giving it to him. It is important to stick to one's beliefs and principles. Leia stuck by hers. That takes courage and strength. She loved Luke but never agreed with him about Anakin.

And I also never called Anakin as 'Vader' a maniac. I called him basically a monster. Because he WAS. He helped kill thousands of people for Palpatine on the regular and continued to help genocide Jedi over the years, while ALSO still killing more kids over the years a handful of times too, even if he usually tried to avoid it (the Kenobi Show when he purposely snapped a kid's neck in front of his mother and dragged him through the street like garbage). Ironically, the more you learn and read about Anakin's atrocities, the more Luke's reaction becomes downright insane (while still saintly/miraculous), because NOBODY else (especially in real life!) would think someone like that had a heart deep down with a sliver of care left. That's what makes it miraculous Luke got through to him.

Lol, you cannot seriously be arguing that the maintenance workers on board the Death Star were "poor little guys." I don't know if you're aware of this, but even though there were probably volunteers, on the other hand, usually half the time in the military soldiers are ASSIGNED certain things like "mopping the floors" or "latrine duty" personally—so those people STILL were probably Empire officers. And even if they weren't, they still chose to be on the abomination known as the Death Star. Their sentence may be the lightest, but unless they were put there against their will they too would ALSO be charged. And also—with your argument—you're calling Luke's actions at the end of the Original Trilogy as a genocidal act or something, when really it was a necessary act to take out a planet destroying death machine. It's amazing how certain fans can try to twist things around to try and blame the heroes for something that is the villain's fault.

Here we go again with the excuses of "if only Mace wasn't mean to poor little Anakin" then Anakin wouldn't have had to murder everyone. Lol, is Anakin incapable of cognitive thinking? Because I promise you that if I was Ahsoka and heard that Anakin's reasoning for trying to kill me at one point in Rebels and betraying all of his friends is because a few people were "mean to him" I would just be pissed off at the gall of him to not take responsibility for his own actions. Even if a few people WERE mean to Anakin, that still doesn't give him the right to go on a murderous rampage. All his actions are still on him. That's like saying a school shooter is justified in his actions just because he was bullied. You calling Anakin a "Trojan horse" as if he planned any of that and wasn't just riding by the seat of his pants doesn't really make sense. Anakin didn't plan anything, and if you're arguing that BS theory that Anakin "balanced" the Force by genociding the Light Side to have it be even with the Dark Side (not true anyway since there were still more Light Siders than Dark Siders), then I am sad to say that you are objectively wrong. 🤷‍♀️

There is no way that "genocide is good, actually!" is the main theme GL had for a children's Trilogy. Anakin completed the prophecy when he finally got off his ass to kill Palpatine. He could've done that in Palpatine's office, or years down the line—either way, the outcome to complete the prophecy is the same: the eradication of the Sith. No more. No less.

Quite frankly, I think it's pretty gross to blame a culture for their own genocide, so the galactic community isn't doing itself any favors at that point anyway (including the SW community. It's always been a baffling fandom opinion to me). And despite what you and other fans may believe—the Jedi shouldn't have to CHANGE their entire culture/way of life for the sake of one man (Anakin) OR the galaxy's inhabitants who don't even TRY to understand them anyway (funny how Jedi are blamed for not understanding citizens, but what citizens try to understand them?).

They are not obligated to change their culture just for the right not to be murdered by a genocidal man on a temper tantrum.

Yeah, it's not surprising there were some among the population who "rejoiced" the fall of the Order. The war affected people's livelihoods and lives, and people get REAL greedy real fast when their day to day lives are affected by something. So yeah, it's no wonder they listened to Palpatine's propaganda to make the Jedi their scapegoat. Still pretty gross and disgusting, of course, but I can see how it came to be that way. Pretty ironic how people seemed to eventually miss the Jedi when they were gone, huh? It's not so fun dealing with an enemy (The Empire) when no space monk is standing protectively in front of you with a laser sword.

You DO know it's canon there were only 10,000 Jedi (not counting younglings and retired Masters) in a galaxy of TRILLIONS, right? It's illogical to expect them to be able to single handedly end slavery throughout the galaxy (especially in the Outer Rim where the Senate won't help them), or to expect them to be able to solve every damn problem in the universe like poverty (the lower levels of Coruscant). They helped people when they could. I don't know how, but you've seemed to have forgotten (just like most fans) that the Jedi ALWAYS tried to help. Even to the very end of their lives. It only makes it more gross to blame them for their own genocide. Lol, Luke barely knew shit about them except what he managed to scrounge up that hadn't been purged by the Empire (and a lot of that is from Legends authors, who didn't particularly like the Jedi anyway, so of course they'd write it like that and not as GL's vision of them being the heroes). The clones were treated terribly, and the Jedi did everything they could to make their lives easier (unless you'd prefer they sit on their asses out of the war to leave the clones under the command of people like Tarkin who didn't give a shit about them?), and it's illogical to blame them for the clones's plight. The SENATE are the corrupt ones and it's THEIR job to fix poverty and slavery and give the clones their rights. THEY are the actual villains of the prequels (besides the Sith), which is exactly what GL wanted to present to show the moral decay of democracy. And yet somehow people missed that and thought he was saying—"No, actually, it's the genocide victims who are wrong, guys!" when that couldn't be farther from accurate.

Dear LORD, here we go again with the excuses for Anakin's actions. Anakin "couldn't trust" Obi-Wan because of something kinda snippy/mean that Obi-Wan said when he was a TEENAGER?(The “pathetic life form/he’s dangerous line”, which he said when he was jealous/also—again—a teenager). Wow, way to hold a grudge. Lol. Doesn't that go against your whole argument about "forgiveness?" Didn't Obi-Wan's following actions towards Anakin then on in treating him like a brother show NOTHING about his care for him? Come on now. Let's be serious.

Why the hell WOULDN'T Obi-Wan go after Anakin? As stated beforehand, Anakin was DANGEROUS at that point, and needed to be put down. Anakin went against his fate to destroy the Sith, which put the prophecy on hold for a bit, so yeah, there was a "plan", which is why he lived, but that doesn't mean he wasn't dangerous and still didn't deserve to die at that point in time. He'd just killed kids like animals hours earlier. Again: not exactly husband/father material anymore.

Again, I feel like the implication here is that you're hinting that everyone misinterpreted the prophecy and that Anakin's fate was to bring "balance" by becoming a genocidal monster and "evening the score", and I am sad to say that you are objectively wrong. 🤷‍♀️ It's not accurate to state GL's original intent to a children's trilogy is that genocide to "even the score" was the correct answer. As stated again: Anakin completed the prophecy when he destroyed the Sith (ie; him and Palpatine). Full stop.

Hmmmm, you're doing a whole lot of speculation on how Leia "might" react if she was put in Anakin's situation, but not actually taking into account how everyone makes their own decisions and people can react differently to things at the end of the day. This just feels like another way you're trying to excuse Anakin's actions and condemn Leia for her bitterness towards Anakin just because: "Oh, if only that brat went what he went through! 🤪 " And such an argument—in the nicest way I can think possible—feels like the platitudes children tell themselves when angry at their parents. ALL of your and rabid Anakin fans's arguments are, because it all boils down to: "It wasn't HIS Fault! It was THIS person's! Because they were MEAN to him and he got BULLIED! And all his friends didn't understand him (even when it's obvious they reached out plenty of times and tried)!" It's just a very tired and frankly going in circles argument. You keep bringing up all these external factors as if the Jedi didn't try at all to offer Anakin coping mechanisms (Yoda literally offered them, and his advice—whether you or others want to admit it or not—makes sense. In war, you sometimes have to be prepared you might lose someone, and with the vague knowledge Anakin gave him, I'm pretty sure Yoda thought Anakin was talking about Obi-Wan. If Yoda knew it was about Padmé, no shit he'd probably have different advice). Anakin's life was not horrible at the Temple. He had a horrible childhood and that would fuck anyone's head up and leave a scar, but once at the Temple he was offered a whole range of different options to receive help. The only difference here is that you just don't AGREE with the Jedi's beliefs in how they go about helping people control their emotions so they don't lash out at people.

Maybe a few people (kids) at the Temple said a few things to Anakin that could be bullying (and I've only seen ONE comic related to that), but it's ridiculous to assume that the entire Jedi Order hated him. It's illogical to think that, and it's just like the childish notion fans have that Mace (who you call a "motherfucker" for... again, what? Treating Anakin like everyone else and not God's gift?) hated or was jealous of Anakin just because he didn't tell him "yes" all the time.

The point is, Anakin's life was fine at the Temple. Maybe he got a little isolated and lonely, but it's not like people didn't reach out. Anakin just had trouble reaching back. And all of those excuses don't let him off the hook for his genocidal actions, which you still seem to be twisting yourself into knots to try and do. THAT is childish. Not Leia judging Anakin for who he was when she had the misfortune of being tortured by him. You're plain lying to yourself if you think you wouldn't react just like Leia in real life. Most people are not gonna be wondering to themselves why the "poor little serial killer" did what he did to their family.

Just as stated before, Anakin honestly didn't deserve shit at the end of his life.

He'd betrayed everyone he'd ever known and thrown them all away (Rex, Ahsoka, Obi-Wan, Padmé, the Jedi/501st, R2, etc) like complete garbage. He helped genocide the Jedi—the very Order that took him in from slavery—and then spent those next 20 years hunting them down like animals, while also in his free time killing whoever Palpatine pointed him to like a lapdog just because he was depressed and pissed he'd screwed up his own life. He'd murdered thousands of kids at that point (literally monstrous and unforgivable for most people. Certainly me. Which only makes Luke's forgiveness more meaningful) and there is a comic where he hunted down a Jedi just for the sheer purpose of ripping his youngling out of the man's arms so he could let Palpatine turn the baby into an Inquisitor.

I am sure there are compilations on YouTube of all the people Anakin killed and the people he'd tortured or made jokes at while he smirked over their bodies. Come back and watch those and then tell me again he "deserved" to find peace. Lol, Anakin didn't deserve shit.

And I know that me saying that will probably make you think I hate his character. I don't. Anakin's character is very dear to me and I'm GLAD he found peace at the end of his life. I'm just under no delusions that he was "redeemed" in any sense of the word that wasn't in Luke's eyes alone or that Anakin actually "deserved" peace, when it should be completely obvious he deserved to be condemned to the farthest pits of Hell. As I keep repeating again and again: Anakin's 'redemption' and forgiveness are GIFTS. It's not something he is owed or something he even deserves. It's something he's given from the people around him who are quite frankly better people than he ever was in his entire life. Luke taught him how to be selfless at the end of his life. Because of his trauma as a slave, Anakin never wanted to do that beforehand from the fear of being weak again, no matter how many tried to help. But Luke did, and he succeeded with getting through to Anakin and making him finally get off his ass to make the right choice.

Again, The Force may have a "plan" but that doesn't mean people don't have free will. Otherwise, they'd all just be mindless puppets walking around spouting nonsense. That's just another copout to try and excuse Anakin's genocidal actions and say it wasn't his fault because it was his "fate". It wasn't. His fate was to destroy the Sith (and NOTHING else, despite what you apparently believe about a BS argument that I admit is common in fanon that Anakin "evening the playing field" was his destiny or something). He tripped and dragged his heels on that for twenty years before finally completing the prophecy in the final hour before his death. No more, no less.

It's childish to not take responsibility for your actions. It's why even though I love his character l'm not gonna treat Anakin like he was a "poor little guy" who didn't have a brain. He had options and a support system (Obi-Wan/Ahsoka/Padmé/Rex/R2/etc) he could've reached out to if he really wanted to. But he didn't because he just wanted to be told he was right. That's on him and no one else, as I keep saying over and over, despite how many excuses for him you try to bring up. I will repeat again: you give Anakin a lot of grace, but apparently none to Leia herself. Why is that? It feels pretty hypocritical. It also feels pretty hypocritical to judge and blame the Jedi in one breath saying they "lost their way (incorrect)", while in another breath embracing their very own beliefs on love and forgiveness. So, which is it? Do you think the Jedi had a wisdom and empathy for forgiveness, or do you think they "lost their way?" You can't have both and pick and choose based off how you want to excuse and justify Anakin's behavior.

Ahhhh, and THERE it is. See, I knew this gross argument (that I admit is a common fandom opinion) was hiding in there somewhere! I'm honestly not going to give this opinion much time, because at the end of the day you and everyone else who believe it are objectively wrong. 🤷‍♀️ You wanna know how I know that? Because it's genocide apologia. And at the end of the day, when you say the whole purpose GL made for Anakin's story and the theme of SW is that "genocide is good actually!", all I have to do to refute that is to remind you and others that this is a CHILDREN'S trilogy and from the words of GL himself; SW's main theme is about hope.

So because of that, this gross "theory" is shown for what it is: immoral, gross and just plain wrong genocide apologia. 🤷‍♀️ It's also just wrong in general, because Anakin killed all the Sith at the end of the Original Trilogy, and it's now canon more than two Light Siders were still alive at the time, so that would be "uneven scales" which goes against this immoral genocide apologia theory to begin with.

Ahhh, would you look at that! You've had the gall to bring up another gross argument similar to your earlier one (which is a common fandom one, I'll admit) that Anakin showed "mercy" to the younglings when killing them, when it's obvious that's incorrect and he didn't show them anything but cruelty. And now you're giving this type of similar gross argument that genocide survivors were "freed" from the "slavery" of their own culture! I gotta hand it to you, it's a common SW fan belief, but every time I hear it, I still get amazed at the gall of someone who truly believes this is accurate each and every time. Because it's obvious you don't agree with their culture (not saying I'd be a good Jedi either, but the point remains), which is why you think them being "freed" from their culture is better for them so the genocide survivors can make "real families" because you don't view the Jedi as family! Because you only believe in the basic family dynamic. So yeah, this opinion is also immoral and wrong obviously, because it tries to twist Anakin's and the Empire's genocidal actions as "benevolent" and "cleansing the Order for something new." Which is, again, genocide apologia, which proves you are wrong, because it's illogical that genocide apologia would be the theme of a children's trilogy about hope.

A lot of these things you bring up about Anakin and Palagueis are things l'm not even sure are actually canon anymore or if they're from Legends. Even if they are canon, these again are not excuses for his actions just because Anakin may have had a penchant for darkness. Even if he did, it's still his responsibility to learn how to control it and not hurt people. Many Jedi need to be guided on the right path to not follow evil, which is what the Jedi already did every day. With all of the thousands of Jedi trained and only a handful turning to the Dark Side, that seems like a pretty good record. The Jedi didn't "lose their way." This is a tired and BS argument that I admit Filoni has brewed the more GL gave him more leeway with SW, because Filoni doesn't view the Jedi as heroes in the right like GL did. There is nothing to show they lost their way just because they joined the war, because they literally were given that choice or sitting on their asses to watch the galaxy burn, and you bet your ass if they did that then Palpatine would spin it around to the public: "Look at how they sit in their ivory towers and watch you suffer under the Separatists's hands! 🤪🤪” So there is literally no way they can win here. If you're talking about how some of their methods got dirty (trying to mind trick the bounty hunter), firstly: they were literally trying to save their own children from being tortured/experimented on/enslaved, which I'm pretty sure gives them some slack (unless you're only willing to give that to Anakin?). Secondly, Anakin also got his hands dirty plenty of times in the war, and is conveniently not criticized by the fandom as much as the Jedi are. Ironic, huh?

Anakin could've told Obi-Wan anything and Obi-Wan would've helped him. Anakin knew that. Anakin just didn't want to risk losing his Jedi authority in the Order, because he didn't want to have to choose between a life with Padmé and being a powerful Jedi. If he cared about Padme completely selflessly, why didn't he just admit he was married and ask the Jedi to help Padmé and make sure she stayed alive through their Jedi healers? That was an option.

He literally risked Padme's life because he keeps sitting on the fence to try and have both. Because despite what you and some of his fans believe—Anakin isn't OWED both. He doesn't deserve everything in the world just because he is the oh so mighty "Chosen One/Hero With No Fear". A culture shouldn't have to change their entire way of life just for one man to continue being married and to have his cake and eat it too by staying in the Order. Even in real life, priests still aren't allowed to practice and be married. That doesn't mean they're being "repressed" or that they're under some type of horrible "slavery" to suppress their emotions. It's just the rules of that culture. If Anakin didn't like the rules of the Jedi, he should've just left after getting their help to keep Padmé and his kids safe. But he didn't because he wanted to keep both. That’s on him. Not his victims.

I mean, yeah, no duh the Jedi Order would’ve had some problems after killing Palpatine and having to prove they he was a Sith that acted on both sides of the war. Palpatine did that really well, but it’s a bit illogical to assume they wouldn’t eventually find evidence in his office somewhere or on his data files. He did the things he did by planning his schemes some type of way. And yeah, for some insane reason being a Sith Lord “wasn’t illegal”, but being controlling of both sides of the war IS, which they could’ve proved after a while. So, if you are trying to argue that Anakin’s actions were for the “better” because it would’ve been too “hard” for the Jedi otherwise—you are still objectively wrong this way. 🤷‍♀️ It’s also just another way to try and excuse Anakin by pretending his actions that day on the final day of freedom of democracy didn’t matter, when it’s obvious that they very clearly did. If Anakin hadn’t cut off Mace’s hand, the war would’ve been won. Therefore, everything that goes bad in the galaxy is legit Anakin’s fault. 🤷‍♀️ Of course Palpatine has the highest blame because he’s the mastermind, but betrayers/backstabbing is always a worse breed of crime, because it always comes from a friend, which is what Anakin was to the Jedi/Obi-Wan/Ahsoka/Rex/Padmé/501st. He legit ruins all of his friends’s lives with that one swing to cut off Mace’s hand. Trying to paint it as anything else is simply incorrect, and takes away from his ‘redemption’ at the end of the Original Trilogy by trying to pretend he’s a “poor little guy” who had no choice.

Anakin could’ve “defeated” Palpatine multiple ways. Just as I mentioned before, just because The Force had a “plan” doesn’t mean that everyone was puppets walking around on a string, because then free will wouldn’t exist. Anakin could’ve helped defeat Palpatine in his office that day in Revenge of The Sith by either taking the swing himself or either standing back and just letting Mace finish the job. He’s still The Chosen One that way, because his choice is still literally the defining action that saves democracy that way. He also could defeat him the way he does in the Original Trilogy, which is taking him by surprise to save Luke by throwing him down the reactor shaft to kill Palpatine. Either way gets the job done. He doesn’t need to physically fight Palpatine to get it done himself. He’s just the catalyst for what happens to the galaxy because of HIS choices alone, which proves how he has agency and understood why all his actions were wrong and just didn’t care. He didn’t need Luke for that in Palpatine’s office. All he had to do was grow a spine and let Mace take the final swing. He failed to do that and doomed the galaxy for twenty years because of it. 🤷‍♀️

Ahhh, there you go again with the gall to pretend that what Anakin did was “mercy” for the younglings just because the imperials would’ve done horrible things to them too! Gotta hand it to you, one has to have a lot of nerve to believe such an argument such as this (which I acknowledge is a common opinion among rabid Anakin fans), but it’s still gross and hilariously wrong every time I hear it repeated. So, just as I stated to you before: you and anyone else who has this opinion is WRONG, because obviously Anakin murdering little kids like animals is not a mercy. Anyone with any type of heart and soul should be able to realize that. What Anakin did is not and will never be a “mercy”. It was a cruel and dehumanizing act towards kids who were begging for his help. What would ACTUALLY have been mercy is what I stated before: Anakin snapping out of it to save the kids and lead them out of the Temple to save their lives. THAT is mercy. The only reason you continue to spout this BS argument that is common among rabid Anakin fans is to try and twist yourself into knots to deny Anakin agency and pretend he had “no choice” but to kill the kids for “mercy”, when it’s clear that this opinion of yours and anyone else who believes it is gross, immoral, and just plain wrong. 🤷‍♀️ It’s as simple as that.

Anakin WAS taught to understand, accept and manage his emotions correctly. That’s LITERALLY what “control” means: MANAGING your emotions so you don’t lash out at people in your anger, which is what the Jedi always warned their members against doing. The only difference here is that you just don’t agree with their beliefs, and are inadvertently portraying them as a culture who “suppresses” their emotions, when from the movies and TCW show it’s obvious that you and anyone who has this opinion is wrong. 🤷‍♀️ There are literally scenes that show it’s about being MINDFUL of your emotions so you don’t let them control you. Not to pretend they don’t exist. Anakin had all of these Jedi teachings available to him. The only difference is that he thought he was above the rules and that they didn’t apply to him. All of which eventually bit him in the ass, because he refused to listen to anyone and be told “no” without getting angry.

Qui-Gon was kind to Anakin, and Anakin had a fondness for him, but it is NOT canon that if Qui-Gon lived Anakin wouldn’t have fallen. That’s just a fanon theory that fans pretend is canon. You know how I know this? Because if you look it up, George Lucas straight up SAYS in interviews that Qui-Gon living wouldn’t have changed anything for Anakin not falling to the Dark Side. The “Duel of the Fates” is just what the song writer titled the song as a metaphor for the fight between light and darkness, but that doesn’t mean that because Qui-Gon died it was impossible for Anakin to grow a brain and a conscience and make choices of his own. GL literally knows better, because he’s the writer, which is what SW fans always say, right? Because anyone that believes that Qui-Gon dying “sealed Anakin’s fate” is simply using it as another copout/excuse for Anakin’s actions to pretend like all of his choices weren’t his own fault. Obi-Wan was a fine teacher for Anakin, and just because he wasn’t perfect didn’t mean he “failed” him. The truth is that Obi-Wan did everything he could, but Anakin refused to accept Obi-Wan’s help half the time. That’s on him and nobody else. He failed Obi-Wan. Not the other way around. Obi-Wan only thinks he “failed” Anakin out of misplaced guilt because he’s a better person than Anakin could ever hope to be who actually felt guilt for his actions, when Anakin in turn during that time at least felt nothing but entitlement and anger towards friends who wouldn’t join him on the Dark Side.

Dooku also doesn’t have any room to talk. He might’ve noticed corruption in the Senate, but the second Dooku joined the Sith and the Separatists and started helping enslave planets and killing people, he lost all credibility and became a big old hypocrite, just like Anakin became after ROTS.

So far, every single opinion you have given is just one excuse after another for Anakin’s actions to try and put the blame on someone else (usually the victims of his genocidal atrocities). And all of them are incorrect and immoral and wrong. 🤷‍♀️ Because half of it is genocide apologia or trying to twist Anakin’s actions from killing the younglings as “benevolent mercy”, when that is obviously WRONG and the biggest copout I have ever heard in my life. You also try to excuse Dooku’s actions, which is also wrong, because Dooku is a literal war criminal at the end of ROTS, so all of his opinions mean squat at that point, because he’d become the very thing he’d hated at that point, just like Anakin would eventually come to be from his own shitty choices. Therefore, every single thing you have brought up is not “facts.” It is simply an opinion that has become huge in fandom spaces because people like Anakin’s character and are biased against him and want to pretend he was a “poor little guy” who couldn’t make decisions, when it is clear there were a million other decisions he could’ve made.

I will then bring this around back to my original point: Leia Organa is not a “brat” for choosing not to forgive someone who was once one of the biggest monsters in the galaxy who TORTURED her (her own flesh and blood FATHER) just because Anakin might’ve had a hard childhood or a few people “being mean to him.” She doesn’t owe him anything, because specifically everything that had gone wrong in the galaxy up to that point was ANAKIN’S fault, and it is the LEAST he can do to kill Palpatine and fix it, so she doesn’t owe him anything for him killing the Emperor either. It’s great Luke found it in his heart to forgive Anakin, but it will NEVER be acceptable to call Leia a “bad person” for not forgiving Anakin, who is canonically the space Hitler (proven) of the Star Wars galaxy. She doesn’t owe him shit, and again: Anakin is lucky she didn’t spit on his grave.

Again: this doesn’t mean I hate Anakin’s character. But unlike you, when I like a character, I don’t need to excuse their every action to pretend they are “poor little guys.” Anakin was a horrible monster for most of his life, but I’m still GLAD he found salvation and peace in the afterlife. But he did NOT deserve it. He deserved to be condemned to the farthest pits of Hell, and I am under no delusions about that. He’s lucky the people around him (Luke, Yoda, Obi-Wan and Ahsoka) are far better people than he ever was while he was alive and were able to find it in their hearts to offer him forgiveness, because he never showed them that same kindness or grace, and obviously didn’t deserve their love or loyalty. It makes it all the more saintly that they gave it to him.

​You’re correct that I said earlier I didn’t want to continue this conversation because I feel like we’re going in circles. But if you’ll recall, I also stated if you kept messaging me then I would respond to the best of my abilities.

My final message to you on my points is the one I left before and also this following one, and then I will wish you farewell, considering we’re obviously never going to agree. Maybe someday someone will come across this thread and read my thoughts and see the logic in not believing genocide apologia is the theme of a CHILDREN’S series about hope. Either way, the conversation is basically finished. I’m not going to repeat everything I have said that discredits your points again, as nothing I’ve said has gotten through to you apparently. The reason in my last message I brought my point back around to Leia not being what you call a “brat” is because that was the original reason I replied to you to begin with. The other stuff in this final comment you send about Leia “owing” Anakin for her birth, which is why she “owes” him forgiveness is also wrong as well for all of the reasons I stated earlier. The parent argument is just another excuse because Anakin was a deadbeat dad. Lots of kids write off their terrible parents every day.

Every other thing you bring up about the Jedi and Mace and the Council has already been refuted by my points earlier to show them as incorrect, even if you don’t agree. The final thing is of course you repeating Anakin has no agency and shouldn’t be blamed because the Force had a “plan”, but again, I’ve already proven in my earlier messages that type of immoral and genocide apologia argument about it being his “destiny” to genocide the Light Side is wrong, because—again—Star Wars is a CHILDREN’S series at the end of the day, and it is completely illogical and absurd that “genocide is good, actually!” is the main theme of a CHILDREN’S trilogy about hope.

I will respond to you no further now. I am satisfied with the points I have made debunking your claims, and will definitely come back to this as a reference if I need to debate someone in the future. I will only leave you with a vague thanks that things managed to stay mostly civil besides us calling each other “strange”. But then again, I know we were both probably getting annoyed. Still, it’s a rare thing to have a mostly polite debate on the internet, so I’ll give credit where credit’s due. 👍 Goodbye, and hope your day is well.

-

As you can see, there’s a lot of genocide apologia in this guy’s arguments (literally disgusting), and there were times I got a little snippy (it gets frustrating defending genocide survivors over and over), but for the most part, I tried to be polite, because I wanted all my points to remain strong. If you are willing to listen to my perspective, I think you can admit some of his arguments echo your own, even if you’re obviously not as blunt and frankly gross about it as him.

Take the show The Acolyte, and how it’s supporters argue that it’s only “critiquing” the Jedi and showing them as “flawed”, which is what you wanted to get at when you sent this ask, no? To “make sure that in discussing the Jedi we remember the good and bad.” Well, my response is… why is that needed? You’ve seen all my points and examples about how being anti Jedi is the larger fandom opinion and how Order 66 is quietly thought to be partly “their fault”, which is literally one of the grossest opinions to have and I’ll never sugarcoat that. So, why is it NEEDED to point out their “flaws” with every post on how they didn’t deserve their genocide? Why does that matter? Why can’t it just be agreement: the Jedi didn’t deserve to be slaughtered like animals? Why is it “oh, but we must remember that they were flawedddd and complacenttttt. 😔💔 After all, if only they just hadn’t been mean to poor Anakinnnn. Then he wouldn’t have been ‘forced’ to help murder them all. 😔💔” Like… do you not HEAR how condescending that sounds? 😭🤷‍♀️🤦‍♀️

Why do the Jedi have to be the “perfect victims” for fans, otherwise they either “deserved what they got” or were “arrogant” and “brought it on themselves?” Why aren’t the MURDERERS/BETRAYERS blamed for the collapse of a galaxy (Anakin and Palpatine), when THEY were the ones responsible and who pulled the trigger? The point is that it’s frankly just weird how much certain fans bring up that “oh, don’t forget they were flawedddd! 🤪🤪🤪” on a post that is mourning the loss of their culture. I promise you that your “special little blorbos” Kanan and Ahsoka (the REAL her that hasn’t become Filoni’s mouthpiece) would probably not enjoy the way you describe them as “oh, but YOU’RE one of the good ones!” And I say that with all the politeness I can manage.

Funnily enough, the writer of The Acolyte, LH, kind of echoes your sentiments, which just aren’t as “benevolent” as you may genuinely believe. In her show, there’s no DEPTH or honestly real THEMES of SW put into the show. It’s all flipped around to the Dark Side being “liberating”, which is so far from true it’s literally laughable. 😭😒 And I’m getting ticked off that when genuine criticism from pro jedi fans come up, somebody just HAS to say—“This show is just portraying the Jedi as not perfect! 😌” 😬😤🫠 And I swear I’m gonna lose it one day, because it portrays the Jedi as more than imperfect. It portrays them as emotionally repressed, barely competent “space cops”. 🙄 (Fucking HATE that term antis use for them so much, because it’s what they argue about saying the Jedi ‘deserved’ their genocide because they’re an ‘institution’ and not a “real” family. 😬😬🤬🤬 Ohhhh, I’m gonna go off on someone one day. Lol.) And these are just my frustrations. It’s not personally directed at you at the moment, anon. It’s just me kind of venting all my thoughts on this post.

I even had a fairly decent comment on my tumblr post about my critique of The Acolyte from a fan trying to save it, and they basically said the same thing and that it’s from the Sith perspective so it’s skewed. But it’s not. 😭😭 Because the showrunner’s views literally mirror the villain’s and then they become her mouthpieces. The show is completely anti Jedi while trying to pretend in a condescending way that it’s only Jedi critical in a way like—“Ah, those poor little culty Jedi. 😔😔💔 Some had good hearts… but their culture doomed them to be wiped out… 😔💔” 😒🙄😤🤬

I just… fucking HATE that show. 😭 SO much. And I know certain fans loved it, so I apologize if people enjoyed at least certain parts, but I’ve read a tumblr post that broke down the show really well and how hollow it is. The characters barely have time to interact and get to know one another before they’re all killed off (Yord and Jecki and Sol, who were fan favorites), until only Osha and Quimir remain—because at the end of the day, THAT’S what this whole stupid show was about. 😭🤦‍♀️ It was about a Reylo fanfic writer getting to play in her sandbox.

Anyway, my point is I don’t think you’re “anti Jedi”, anon. I think you’re “Jedi critical”, yes. But not in the benevolent way you believe. I think you are unknowingly being benevolently condescending in the way The Acolyte tries to be by saying, “Ooohhh, those poor, culty Jedi. 💔😔😔😔 If only they weren’t so emotionally repressed like robots (dehumanization)… maybe then they could’ve changed their culture so they didn’t have to be ‘cleansed’ for a ‘better galaxy’. 😔💔💔” It’s just… stuff like that. 😭🤷‍♀️🤦‍♀️ Which is… SO exhausting for us pro Jedi fans to hear over and over and over like it’s a valid take, when it’s just really not. But I wanted to explain my thoughts in a way I hope was mostly polite. I probably sound a little bit snippy, but it’s just because I’m frustrated at having to defend genocide victims again. That’s all.

I guess I would just… encourage you to rethink your thoughts? Because when you take into account what the Sith/Empire represent (Nazis) and then what the Jedi genocide is a metaphor of… your ‘argument’ looks less and less cute. 🤷‍♀️😭 I’m just saying. Some may not like me comparing it to real life, but there are plenty of Asian fans/aroace fans/Jewish fans that heavily relate to the Jedi for this very reason, and I refuse to allow their opinions to be silenced, because fiction is for everyone, and SW has ALWAYS been political, which means it’s literally MADE to be compared to real life.

Anyway, I hope this long meta post maybe changed some minds, if not your own. I’m gonna leave links to other big pro Jedi blogs that have better and more organized meta posts than me about this stuff, where they go in depth explaining how the Jedi are the good guys and how what happened in the Prequels was never about “the genocide victims are in the wrong, actually!” and was more about the SENATE becoming corrupt and rotting democracy from the inside out, which made it so easy for Palpatine to slither into power. 10,000 Jedi aren’t gonna easily change that. But the politicians CAN. They were just too selfish to do so. The Senate/Sith are the real villains of the Prequel trilogy. Not the Jedi (literal genocide victims). Anything less than viewing it like this is just… wrong. 😭🤷‍♀️

Here are the big Pro Jedi meta blogs I talked about:

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Tags:

@ensomnia

@heartfairy

@fangirlteallie

@shoniwake

@lemons-to-limes

@lexskiss

@spidersaye

@selenaftmarvel

@silverwoodj

@ajtaals

[sokkas-therapist]

Ok so I decided I am going to post that “atla live action hot take” I mentioned

Click below the cut if you’re interested in hearing my take on the whole “taking away sokka’s sexism” thing

1) nobody is glorifying sokka’s sexism by saying it should be kept in the show. It’s quite literally the opposite. The original series did a great job using his sexism as a lesson; any time sokka made a sexist remark in the first 4 episodes it was made abundantly clear that he was wrong, and as soon as Sokka was proven wrong he admitted that he was misguided, apologized, quite literally bowed down on his knees to ask for forgiveness, and even asked to learn from the kiyoshi warriors, and excepted wearing their traditional uniforms, further surrendering his flawed perspective of societal gender roles. A wonderfully executed example of writers using their characters to teach viewers a lesson: which was, in this case, that sexism is wrong. Sokka’s sexism was not left unresolved, so why take away a valuable lesson in the show??

2) if you take away a character’s flaws…then they don’t have development. A character can’t learn and grow from their mistakes if they never make mistakes.

If a charecter starts off perfect and unflawed then they are surface level and lack depth or the ability for an arc.

And no, this is not saying that Sokka didn’t have many other admirable qualities like his intelligence and adaptability etc.. He 100% had those qualities. But one of the coolest things about the original atla series was their ability to flesh out side charecters and give them depth. A charecter who is simply smart then becomes smarter, or adaptable then becomes even more adaptable, lacks depth and internal conflict.

Sokka’s sexism was the starting point for his internal conflict. Sokka wasn’t just sexist to be sexist, or because the entire southern water tribe was misogynistic (and we know for a fact they weren’t, because if they were misogynistic, then Katara wouldn’t have been shocked when the North denied her waterbending training). He was misogynistic because being seen/accepted as a “man” and a strong warrior was all Sokka wanted after his father left him behind. In reality, we know his father was only trying to protect his son from the horrors of war. But to a young and impressionable child, Sokka internalized this as him not being “man” enough, so he dedicated himself to becoming the person he thought would make his father proud. He was always reaching for this unattainable standard he set for himself, which lead to him having a skewed and toxic view of masculinity that he took out on the women around him. He associated being a worthy warrior with being a traditionally masculine man, and leaned way too far into fulfilling the gender roles men and women are told to play in society in hopes of gaining his father’s approval. We see him do this by suppressing his feelings of inferiority as a nonbender, along with all the aspects of himself that he thought could be seen as “weak” or “feminine” (ex: his love for shopping and poetry and art that we see develop up until the literal end of the series).

So clearly, the vast majority of sokka’s charecter development that deals with internal conflict stems from the toxic view of masculinity and gender roles that he adopted after being left behind by his father, which caused him to outwardly lash out toward katara and Suki with misogynist comments. So taking away the sexism we see in the first few episodes eliminates important context that makes sokka’s character development throughout the entire series significant, not just an “iffy unnecessarily bigoted message”, because it was quite literally used to show that sexism was wrong.

I wasn’t going to say anything about this at first but seeing so many people display a fundamental lack of understanding for the premise of character development and the usage of charecter flaws to promote positive messages in media set me off. Just…WTF????

(Also I know I wrote a summarized version of this in the tags for another post but I wanted to expand upon it more and make this a separate post)

[ww2yaoi]

if web had gotten wounded in the patrol how do you think joe would've reacted? cause we all know (= like to think) he was worried about web in that one scene with the whistler, but idk how he would've acted on his worries had they come true🤔 would it depend on how serious the wound was? would he feel even more resentment cause web just got back and got hurt again and was once again to rest while they all have to keep working? if that was the case would the relief that he didn't die like jackson overshadow this resentment? idk i feel like i don’t know him well enough like you do to imagine this😭

first of all, I'm very amused that you think I'm some sort of joe liebgott whisperer. like we watched the same show don't doubt yourself and your interpretations </3 but yeah I guess I have been studying the blade for a while

okay. is it too much of a cop out to say yes literally all of that is going on inside of joe at once? but yeah, it would depend on the kind of wound web got because that would probably change the scenario. I guess I'll give you two answers then:

scenario 1: the wound is another clean, superficial million dollar wound like the one web got in holland

I think joe is more likely to be resentful and angry in this scenario. like you said, web hasn't been on the line as much compared to the other guys. they haven't had a proper break in months. while obviously getting wounded isn't fun, web had been lucky to miss out on bastogne. I think part of joe is constantly wrestling with his deep bitterness over web not being there to help them out and experience the misery he experienced and his relief that web wasn't there. because let's face it, he wouldn't wish that kind of shit on anyone. the way I characterize joe is he's in a constant push and pull with his very real firy resentment and his good heart. he has a lot of internal conflict because he's so angry (and traumatized) that it causes him to lash out. but later I think he regrets it because he's a kind person with a gentleness and generosity that's innate to his character

so, on the surface, yes, he would be very angry that web is getting out of it yet again. but I think another part of him would be glad because maybe this means web gets out of the war, if not unscathed, then at least alive. after all, web did get joe out of the patrol, and he was trying to prove himself in part because of how joe treated him. who knows, maybe if web hadn't stuck out his neck joe could've been the one who had gotten hit or killed. joe knows this. obviously, he would be pissed that web was leaving yet again (and I could talk about joseph "abandonment issues" liebgott all day) but I think his anger would burn bright and hot and quick and eventually his feelings of guilt and sadness would probably overtake it. I think joe and web would work things out eventually there would just be some hurt feelings as per usual with them... they don't communicate for shit or say what they mean because they're both scared and out of their depth and trying to uphold their facades because they care so much what the other thinks of them but they can't know it blah blah blah

scenario 2: the wound is serious, life-threatening, web might not die but he's in bad shape

I think joe is less likely to be angry or resentful in a scenario where web is hurt badly and genuinely in danger. I think he'd be pretty upset honestly and feel guilty over how he'd been treating web those past couple days. I think he'd also be afraid that his behaviour pushed web towards proving himself on the patrol and might've been the reason why web got hurt. however, I think joe would rather chew glass than express any of this to anyone, let alone web, which would cause him to be very touchy and stressed out and he'd probably still lash out in some ways.

I had a convo about this scenario with tierney/@kbsd and we talked about how joe would probably do other things to show he cares because he's such an actions over words kind of guy. he can't admit his feelings whatsoever. anyways, we thought it'd be a funny scenario if joe was always hovering around the hospital (say they're back in mourmelon and web is being treated there) and he keeps pissing off the nurses with his presence because he's checking up on web and bringing him the newspaper and like pestering the doctors about when web's bandages were last changed when web is asleep and can't hear it and just being a jerk and a nuissance and they're like can you please go away jesus fucking christ

anyways, I kind of lost the plot did this even answer your question at all

[lemonhemlock]

https://www.tumblr.com/lemonhemlock/763163615828361216/adding-to-your-nuanced-discussion-regarding-sara much of the hatred towards sara hess is gross and openly misogynistic. unfortunately, it also muddies the waters for making valid critiques of her writing overall. i’m only familiar with her work on HOTD, and while i think she does basic level serviceable work (ie- mostly the plot makes sense) i find a lot of it extremely lazy. take both HOTD finales for example; we have two scenes of domestic violence (daemyra and helaena/aemond) being used to communicate the pretty elementary idea that these men are bad, wrong, and power hungry for anticipating war in a struggle for succession. now with both characters, you can argue it makes sense; daemon has been orbiting the throne all season, he sees the greens as the threat they are and, understands war is inevitable. he’s frustrated with rhaenyra’s lack of response and lashes out after finding out viserys didn’t trust him enough to communicate aegon’s dream. meanwhile, aemond has just discovered he is at a great disadvantage in this dragon cold war, has already committed severe violence to become regent in the first place, and is also lashing out because he is insecure in his position and fearful of what might happen.

the problem is instead of exploring these (very sensible) feelings for the characters or developing them through actual scenes and dialogue, we have this shorthand where Men = Violent, because they couldn’t possibly explore these emotions for these characters in another way. i can’t remember if it was olivia or phia who spoke about the aemond/alicent/helaena scene as helaena refusing to feed aemond’s violent male ego… girl you are literally at war! idk if this is about his male ego so much as he doesn’t want to fucking die 😭 not to point the finger at the actors, i am just assuming that idea came from somewhere, and it seems most likely to be the writer or director. and daemon isn’t in the wrong for expecting battle- yet instead of having that be a real conflict between him and rhaenyra, we have this moment of abuse that is quickly brushed aside and moved past. it exists only to show us how aggressive daemon is in the simplest, laziest way possible, and then it’s disposed of when it’s no longer needed. you can say the same for “civilians don’t matter”— it’s just lazy writing! they don’t have to, in that the story can function without an in depth look at the smallfolk’s relationship to dragons and the targ dynasty overall, and why bother to do any of that when you can just decide that for this one scene, none of them matter!

this is very long 😮‍💨 i’m sorry for the essay! i find this topic hard to discuss because too often people come in to just call her a cunt because she wrote a medieval man who didn’t articulate feminism perfectly. there are real issues here!! and it’s not all on her, condal obviously approves everything and they are on the same page here. anyway. thanks for reading as always!

Coming back to this ask after some time, sorry for the delay!

I agree very much with your assessment of her doing serviceable, but ultimately lazy writing. Perhaps that under a more competent showrunner, she could have written something decent. But one of her problems is that she is only superficially familiar with the source material - I'm saying this because she gave an evasive answer when asked if she read the books ("a long time ago"). This matters because she clearly doesn't understand the politics of the universe she is writing for (the scheming is nonsensical in HOTD) or the themes (dragging back the "civilians don't matter", but it's very revelatory to how she approaches the scripts). How can you write ASOIAF media, a series that relies heavily on politicking and dismantling tropes, without a grasp on those two things? D&D misunderstanding the themes of the series is famously one of the reasons for its lackluster show ending.

And that's just not going to rectify itself on its own. If she lacks the initiative to analyse the text properly, then someone should direct her as to what exactly to write. I'm sorry, but that's you can't just have it both ways - not do the work and then shrug your shoulders when you end up creating a divergent version that doesn't fit in the plot you're bound to follow.

take both HOTD finales for example; we have two scenes of domestic violence (daemyra and helaena/aemond) being used to communicate the pretty elementary idea that these men are bad, wrong, and power hungry for anticipating war in a struggle for succession. [...] the problem is instead of exploring these (very sensible) feelings for the characters or developing them through actual scenes and dialogue, we have this shorthand where Men = Violent, because they couldn’t possibly explore these emotions for these characters in another way.

Exactly, and the reason it ends up working for Daemon is because he previously got a ton of screen time and we got to know his personality, whereas Aemond gets little next to nothing in Season 2, in addition to his in-built disadvantage of being much younger and, thus, getting introduced later on. Well, surprise surprise, what worked for Daemon will not work for Aemond in that situation, because if you don't invest in Aemond's characterisation, the parallel will fall flat. Aemond and Daemon had very different upbringings and it's very silly to think that what applies to Daemon will automatically apply to Aemond and, therefore, you don't need to bother to dissect Aemond on screen in any meaningful way.

That's just concentrating on the logistics & not even critiquing the very lazy stereotype of men = violent & women = peacemakers.

i can’t remember if it was olivia or phia who spoke about the aemond/alicent/helaena scene as helaena refusing to feed aemond’s violent male ego… girl you are literally at war! idk if this is about his male ego so much as he doesn’t want to fucking die 😭

This. ^^^ I often find that the writers were trying to make some kind of point that, in other circumstances, could have been relevant, but they have a knack for picking the worst situations as illustrative examples. And, after that, they're surprised their simile felt mismatched.

Aemond having a violent male ego and being critiqued for it within the text is absolutely fine, but is it reasonable to do it when he's trying to ensure his family are not getting killed? And have Helaena be that agent of critique, when she herself has just been subjected to horrific loss and trauma at Daemon's hands?

Conveying that the smallfolk live miserable lives that often lead them to forsake their morals and commit horrific acts in desperation (such as becoming assassins for hire) is another valid point to make. But is it really appropriate to beg for clemency from the audience via a widowed dog (the lowest form of sympathy begging, if you ask me) when we are talking about a cruel child-murderer at the end of the day?

In the same vein, high-borns having more resources at their disposal to recover after trauma is very true. But is it appropriate for that comment to come out of the mouth of a mother who only just recently lost her son to horrific violence? Especially after having her grieve so halfheartedly, it's giving less intersectionality and more her not actually giving much of a shit instead. No one in their right minds would go to a rich lady mourning her dead child and start lecturing her on the privilege of grief. Helaena is just not the appropriate vehicle in that moment for that kind of commentary.

Neither are the smallfolk of King's Landing in a position to mourn the dragon Meleys mere days after it butchered so many of their fellow townies. So many times I can sense this disconnect between what a believe, humane response would look like and half-baked attempts at social commentary.

and daemon isn’t in the wrong for expecting battle- yet instead of having that be a real conflict between him and rhaenyra, we have this moment of abuse that is quickly brushed aside and moved past. it exists only to show us how aggressive daemon is in the simplest, laziest way possible, and then it’s disposed of when it’s no longer needed.

Yes, in some ways, Daemon is the writers' opportunity to eat their cake and have it, too. They make a lot of noise about how much of a problematic bad boy he is, but, when it comes down to it, nothing he does has any kind of real consequence. The only consequence he ever faced was Viserys banishing him and that was way back before any kind of time jump (and it got overturned in the end, anyway).* Alys doesn't do anything to him except hold his hand and gently nudge him in the "right" direction. Rhaenyra takes him back with nary a snide comment.

Even back in season 1, he can kill Rhea Royce with no fallout: the Royces don't do anything and Lady Jeyne is still Rhaenyra's lackey with no explanation given. He can spread the rumour of killing Laenor with the intent of sowing fear and decapitate Vaemond in front of the greens. Yet the greens are not worried about him and scrambling to prevent Rhaenyra from seizing the throne. Oh no. Crowning Aegon is just misunderstanding Viserys' dying words. 🤦‍♀️ Daemon can even kill Jaehaerys and still Helaena decides to help him instead of her own brother.

*honestly, that's one of the reasons I think the first 5 episodes of season 1 are the show's strongest. It's like back then you did stuff and it had consequences. Incredible achievement.

you can say the same for “civilians don’t matter”— it’s just lazy writing! they don’t have to, in that the story can function without an in depth look at the smallfolk’s relationship to dragons and the targ dynasty overall, and why bother to do any of that when you can just decide that for this one scene, none of them matter!

You know, I would actually like to take this opportunity to point out that I get this conundrum as a showrunner. You don't really want to make a story about smallfolk suffering, because it would be a massive downer and it would not sell as much or be as popular. Not many people are interested in Les Miserables but with dragons and that's understandable! But there is a way to simultaneously not delve into the intricacies of oppression in your escapist nobility fantasy, but not be downright insulting about it.

They don't need a ton of screen time to set up the basic theme of "it's always the innocents who suffer when you high lords play your game of thrones". They just don't and I'm tired of pretending otherwise. They can very well illustrate the point of smallfolk suffering without resorting to insane suspension of disbelief like King's Landing starving after two weeks of blockade. And, if they can't, then they shouldn't be in the writers' room for productions that have the audacity to submit episodes to prestigious award shows.

[soupthatistohot]

BSD: An Absurdist Analysis - Chapter 111

"You simply can't kill me": Fukuzawa's refusal to die and Fyodor's folly

[BSD Absurdism Masterpost]

Fukuzawa is able to attack Fukuchi despite his many injuries, thus turning the tides of the war, is peak absurdism. Despite the odds, despite the fact that he’s literally been stabbed multiple times and is pitted against somebody with a really OP ability, he succeeded and was able to call off the airstrike that would’ve decimated Yokohama.

There's not much more to say about that, I'll get more into it when Fukuchi's plan is explained in-depth. So, we then jump to Fyodor and Nikolai outside of Meursault. 

I’ll briefly point out the absurdity of Fyolai’s relationship because I haven’t gotten to analyze them yet, but I won’t go too deep because I know I’ll eventually get to them in my BSD manga re-read. I also don’t fully understand these two weirdos just yet, to be completely honest. So all I’ll say here is that their relationship is a complete paradox – being friends and allies but seeking to kill one another.

I would like to focus mostly on Fyodor’s need to control in this scene because I think that’s a central part to the absurdist reading of why Dazai succeeds. This is directly addressed in the anime adaptation of this scene when Dazai explains how he survived (AKA what will likely occur in the next chapter), so I won’t get too deep into it just yet, but I do want to touch on it because I think I’ll be focusing on Dazai and the absurdity of the power of Soukoku in the next chapter a lot more. 

In any situation we’ve seen so far, Fyodor has elaborately planned things out so he has control over it. Not much takes him by surprise, and if there are any wrenches thrown into his plans, he’s always got something else to back him up (for example, when he was put into Meursault, he still had methods to execute his overarching plan with Fukuchi). His and Dazai’s intellect are often compared because of their ability to have a plan for any given outcome. The difference is that Dazai doesn’t really have control of many situations, he leaves a lot up to chance. 

The absurdist protagonist usually succeeds through strange means, taking a shot into the dark and hoping for the best (another good example is Aya jumping off the building). Fyodor doesn’t do this, though, his plans are not only premeditated but also allow him to pull all the strings, and this is best exemplified by his control over the vampires. Dazai’s plans are effective for a different reason, he’s able to predict outcomes up to a certain point, but he doesn’t have complete control over the situation. His plan in Meursault depended on his ability to gain Sigma’s trust, and (assuming the manga will follow the anime plot, which is very likely at this point) his ability to put his trust in Chuuya. 

Theoretically, having control over a situation would be optimal, because it allows the individual to manipulate — but reality is absurd. 

This is why Dazai succeeds as an absurdist protagonist. He doesn’t try to completely control reality, because that’s an impossible feat. Trying to control reality would mean that you have an understanding of it, and that you’ve figured out its meaning, which is impossible according to the philosophy of the absurd. 

The only thing an absurdist knows is that reality is absurd and the only effective way to exist is to not succumb to it. Therefore, Dazai embraces reality’s absurdity and leaves much of his plan up to chance, which is one of the only tactics that will be successful against Fyodor’s obsession with control. Fyodor’s mistake was thinking that he could play god and make sense of a world that inherently does not make sense and never will make sense. His attempt to control everything was an attempt to bend reality to his will, which is impossible.

And it bites him in the ass.

[somebluemelodies]

i love that there’s an ongoing theme with a lot of the qsmp ships (especially the canon/close to canon ones) that is just this typically serious, nonchalant character - likely with a heavy/angsty backstory - and a character who’s oftentimes silly/chaotic, dramatic, or simply exudes wet cat energy, with or without the angsty backstory

i’m mainly looking at spiderbit, fitpac, and pissa/phissa- read my nonsensical ramble under the cut-

spiderbit!! you have q!Cellbit: a former child solider and an ex-convict from Alcatraz bc he was a cannibal and essentially a crazed serial killer. and his husband is q!Roier, who spent his earlier days on the island flirting with anyone and everyone, has Drama Queen™️ tendencies, and has an alter-ego who lives a double life as a stripper and psychologist. i don’t think Chafaland is canon so we don’t have much of a pre-island backstory for him, if one at all. granted, q!Cellbit we all know that sometimes has the wet cat or chaotic moments, so different dynamics can be interchanged between these two

fitpac!! q!Fit comes directly from the anarchy hellscape known as 2b2t, and as far as i’m aware, has spent most of if not all of his life there. led wars, killed a shit ton of people… yknow, all that jazz. literal war veteran. and yet!! who softens him and literally makes him fucking blush but none other than q!Pac. yes, q!Pac literally got his leg eaten and was also put into Alcatraz but up until he got kidnapped a couple weeks ago, the sheer chaos of this man?? regardless of the angst?? and now he’s slowly healing and getting back to normal too?? a silly lil inventor guy fr

pissa (why was this the chosen ship name again?)!! idk what the hell is going on with q!Phil’s backstory other than that he’s an/the Angel of Death, so there’s whatever angst and/or drama that comes with that. but this man just wants to chill and take care of his kids. and then… you have q!Missa… the MOST pathetic wet cat (/affectionate) on the entire island. and yknow what? i love him for that! the way this man has acted with q!Phil since he returned? i don’t even think i need to elaborate

but on a more serious note tho, i love that the relationships can (and do) run so much deeper too

i’ve talked about spiderbit plenty, but i’ll keep talking about them bc they just mean sm to me. the way they balance each other out and complement each other, the way they’re always there for each other. the way their relationship is so heavily built on trust. these two have so much love and commitment for each other it’s almost sickening. meus pais </3

fucking fitpac man they grew on me so fast :’D there’s a certain depth and potential with them that makes me crazy. they way they could (and do) help each other and always look out for each other. the way that they, regardless of inadvertently or intentionally, help each other heal from all the baggage they each carry is just… ough. i need them to become canon at this point idc. they’re both clearly into each other i don’t make the rules. THE POTENTIAL

i really hope we get more pissa bc it’s literally so crystal clear they care about each other, regardless of how much distance or how much time has passed. and that’s big. just like fitpac, there’s so much potential with them too, even if their marriage is platonic. i just wanna see their dynamic explored more please and thank you. it’s been so long </3

ANYWAY that’s… whatever this was. did this make any sense? idk. these gay cubitos man, i’m telling you. gotta love the lgbtqsmp. if you read all that, thanks :D

[savindeku]

as a long time bnha fan, had to drop some thoughts i’ve been having about the manga ending! i’ve held this series near and dear to my heart, through the moments when i felt it was great story telling and when i felt so much was missing, or didn’t quite hit the mark. so i definitely don’t think bnha (or hori) is above critique, i love to yap about this series ((:

MAJOR SPOILERS AHEAD FOR THE ENTIRE SERIES BUT OF COURSE PARTICULARLY FOR CHAP 430

to me, there’s three main parts to the ending that i felt make sense:

izuku giving up OFA

izuku becoming a teacher

izuku still having the chance to be a true quirkless hero

going into depth on each of these, while i love the inclusion of these three pieces, i can understand why the actual execution didn’t land with folks. even i have my qualms! okay let’s get into it! ps. this is really me just yapping away from the heart so bare with it 🫰🏽

1) izuku giving up OFA:

I think this one should not come as too much of a surprise, given that the reveal of OFA essentially being the cause of the early demises of the previous holders sort of insinuated an uncontrollable aspect to the power. even though izuku has an advantage as someone who was quirkless, it still creates a sense of foreshadowing that this is a gift that might have an expiration date. of course, a part of me would have loved for him not to have given it up but there’s enough build up there that it doesn’t feel out of left field. in addition to the running theme in the series being that anyone can be a hero/a quirk doesn’t make a hero, there’s certainly some symbolism in izuku now affectively being without, making him a quirkless hero - what he had dreamed of since the first chapter.

2) izuku becoming a teacher:

personally, i really love this for him! as a consumer of many a fanfic, i have grown obsessed with this job alternative for him, since it allows him to continue to work in the hero field, he can inspire the next generation to save to win (that as long as you willing to extend that helping hand, that’s what being a real hero is), his analytic mind is doing important work, and can use his own experience to help others learn! “deku sensei” makes my heart so happy and if anything, i would’ve loved an extra chapter just to see him as a teacher. one thing ill add here is, i can understand some disappointment with this or frustration at hori because to some, it may seem izuku ended up becoming complacent and didn’t at least try to continue to pursue his dream of being a hero after the war. not sure where i fall on this, but food for thought.

3) izuku still having the chance to be a true quirkless hero (sorry this is gonna be long lol):

now to really get into the big reveal for this final chapter - a tech suit designed just for izuku (at the main request of a one katsuki bakugou, which yeah i Will Be Totally Normal About) so he can still be on the field as a pro-hero!! okay i also loved this, i won’t deny it as much as im on the deku sensei train! bnha is a series that is never going to please everyone and its ripe with many issues throughout but i do think this was a beautiful way to wrap it up. once again, from chapter 1, we are met with izuku who wants nothing more to be a hero despite being quirkless. i never really liked the argument of “well why didn’t he try harder or train up” when the series explains to us over and over again that this is a society that values quirks above all else. its a literal systemic issue (hitting close to home but i digress), where izuku would NEVER have been accepted as a quirkless hero no matter how hard he worked because it simply isn’t designed to allow that (also where the fuck would he have gotten the resources for that is beyond me lmao).

to me, this part was actually very important for bringing the story to a full circle in which we actually (somewhat, but arguable not completely) address the core issue and theme “people are not born equal”. instead of perpetuating a “pull yourself up by your boot straps” mindset, hori tells a story where we acknowledge the system and how it is working as intended - and that’s the very reason it needed dismantling. of course, i think along the way, we maybe lost the plot at times (thinking about how we didn’t fully address izuku’s martyrdom mindset, children get sent off to war multiple times, most of the villains being k*lled off rather than being saved as izuku wanted) but there’s much evidence of this. knowing that there was still the spirit of a hero in izuku - which is MADE SO CLEAR HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH HAVING A QUIRK - and he now has the chance to continue onward, quirkless. i mean c’mon, it’s really something (to me at least).

bonus note time

here’s a sprinkle of random lingering thoughts. one critique i saw was that it felt strange for izuku to accept he couldn’t be a pro-hero until his friends (ehm mainly Katsuki teehee) gifted him the suit. as if he really just gave up and this sort of hurts any character development for izuku. while i see the thought process here and would’ve also welcomed izuku getting the suit designed himself, it doesn’t upset me quite as much that this is how it actually played out. it’s definitely conflicting feelings for me because ultimately i would’ve loved for izuku to have had an arc where it was more explicitly stated that he overcame his overly sacrificial tendencies - or that the story spent time sitting with the trauma inflicted on the children fighting a war. but here is where bnha slacks off (imo) - we don’t get that breath to explore or analyze or genuinely know izuku’s thoughts or feelings on the matter (beyond that he’s sad that shigaraki died, enjoys being a teacher, and can admit that he misses his quirk). so in this way, it makes sense why hori chose this path. it’s more about his friends extending their hand to him, an offering of never leaving anyone behind who is a hero, quirk or not. i think of it as something more symbolic than it having to say anything about izuku’s character. i think for that to be addressed, there’s so many things further back we would need to unravel too lol

lastly - bnha is also a story about disabilities!! there’s been a decent amount of analysis on this so i won’t say much but i think this is also good to keep in mind. it helps for understanding the metaphor in place - quirks can be disabling and rather than creating a world that is accessible to all, the world requires that you figure it out instead. “people are not born equal” what if we dared to dream of a world that understood “we each take shape differently…” so that we might want to care for one another. so we can build something that makes the space for all of us to be able to live and thrive.

okay so that’s what i’m feeling now! like i said, i really love bnha and i simply can’t bring myself to say i hated the ending or anything. it’s a series that will always have a special place in my heart! there’s are just thoughts rattling in my brain and how ive interpreted things as someone whose read the manga the last 5 years! it’s crazy to look back and remember key moments that shook the fandom to its core. anyway, if you read all of this, thanks!! :D

[p-perkeys]

Hey Perkeys, Hope you are doing well ✨

I wanted your opinion about something.

I don't know how long the Hellverine comic will last, but I hope it will serve to show Akihiro's character development. We both know all the things he's been through, everything he's endured since birth. The boy didn't even have a normal birth. But I suppose that's a common thing with children in the Snikt family...

Anyway, what I hope is that Hellverine shows that Aki is no longer alone. He has a family, he has friends and, most importantly, he has a girlfriend who loves him more than anything (Aurora was so devastated after his death). They all care about Akihiro, and this is the best time to prove it with Hellverine.

I didn't read the Wolverine comics when Logan was possessed by Bagra-ghul. Thanks to the Marvel comics Wiki, I just know that it took Wolverine the help of his own memories, Melita, the X-Men, a subconscious projection of Nightcrawler and what seemed to be a vivid memory of Jean Grey as White Phoenix to burn the demons from his mind and send Hellverine back to hell. According to the wiki, anyway.

So what if the same thing was going to happen to Aki ? A team made up of Logan, Laura, Gabby, Kid Omega, Aurora, Northstar, Carl Valentino, Phoebe Cuckoos, and other people important to Fang.

All united to get the demon out of Aki. All united to bring him back. All united to prove to Fang that he is no longer alone. It would be incredible. And more interesting than just another fight between Logan and Aki. Or another death just to harm Logan.

Then Aki would left with Aurora and Northstar to get some rest. And, I don't know, maybe he will join a new Wolverines team with Laura and Gabby ? And sometimes with Logan and Kid Omega as guests ?

What do you think ?

Hey littlewildfeathersworld! I’m doing well, I hope you are too 🥰

I agree on Hellverine! At this point I have no idea where it’s going, but I want nothing more than to see something good for Aki 😔 poor boy’s been through the wringer his whole life and right time things start looking up, all this chaos happens. It’s madness!

I adore the idea of this being a turning point for him! For the last couple years we’ve seen how he’s changed, but we haven’t really seen other people respond to his change. It’d be amazing to have them all show it! I feel like it even started a little bit in Sabertooth War when Aurora went off on Logan for not loving Akihiro and protecting him like he should have. To see that come full circle would be the best!

And I LOVE this concept!! I could see that happening and it would be so perfect! It’d be a beautiful turn of events from 8 months of devastation and thinking they’d lost him to realizing that together they can bring him back with their love and support 😭❤️‍🩹 UGH. YES.

I’d love to see that! I want to see something like that for him and Aurora since we haven’t really gotten to see the depths of their relationship that much. We know he adores his sisters, and they adore him, but I’d love to see them involved too. And what I’d REALLY love to see is Logan making some kind of *selfless effort* for the son he took for granted and pushed to the side all those years.

Marvel can go one of two ways with this and I’m really, really hoping they take a route like this. For one, I don’t want Aki to be dead. And two, we’re really due for a story like this. Logan needs to heal and grow and his kids do too. Especially Akihiro. He literally did a full 180 with his life and we’ve never gotten any huge reaction from it. Of course, I’m all about reactions, but I think they’re important. Especially with things like this.

But I love this idea!! It’s brilliant! Marvel needs to hire you! ❤️🫶🏻

[f0xgl0v3]

Powers in Camp Jupiter

Wow I’ve posted a lot today lol-

Finally! Another long, ‘Camp Jupiter general Hc’ post. I’ve just been thinking a lot on powers the more I’ve been dipping my toes into learning about Rome and its culture and how I want to incorporate that into New Rome and Camp (literally I mention it once so don’t get any hopes up for like in depth Ancient Rome stuff and it just affected my thought process for how the Romans might think similarly to powers as they did other things). Also this is another post going, ‘this is a weird thing in camp that is never explained but doesn’t make sense to me so this is how I’d go about explaining it’ post, enjoy :]

But first things first; I think Camp puts a heavy importance on physical skill, that powers are somewhat frowned upon. That Camp Jupiter would put a higher importance on someone’s capabilities without the powers, and that power usage is something that generally the Camp doesn’t like acknowledging- I’ll go more in depth on what I mean but first I wanna talk about how I got to this conclusion making sense in my mind,

This did make sense in my brain because it fills the little gap where we don’t see a lot of Camp Jupiter power embracing or whatever. We get Hazel being worried over her powers because of the like cursed aspect? Which is a whole other can of worms that I don’t like the plot point on- but whatever. Hazel’s thing feels weird that she wouldn’t explain it, now I am obviously not a Hazel analyzer- but I do have a pretty solid characterization of Camp in my head and I feel that is something that they would 100% want to and need to know. Along with the apparent lack of notable power usage in Camp Jupiter- we don’t see it in the same way that we see over at Half-Blood, now this could be because Camp has like 0 important characters. But I feel like during the war games there would be more people taking advantage of powers, where it’s specifically called out when Percy is doing it because it’s odd in the setting- it stands out (yes it probably was called out for Rick to be like “Look at how cool and powerful Percy is guys!” But whatever-) but that bleeds into the first gorgon chase scene, where it’s notable that again; it’s only Percy using his powers openly, it’s the legionnaires that are looking on in bewilderment, confusion.

Of course there are the 4 main outliers I think of about this power thing; Reyna, Jason, Octavian, and Bryce Lawrence. But I’ll talk about what I think their situations are.

Anyway, I believe this seeming power-aversion in camp Jupiter (was probably not planned and Rick just kind of forgot about Demigods and how probable it would be that they’d display them more often for the general quality of life improvements they’d give-) could be caused by a couple factors,

The abundance of Legacy’s at camp and at New Rome; we aren’t sure how legacies work (because they are all over the place and we never get set power levels on them) but it would make logical sense that powers became more niche or less potent through generations (this obviously has outliers, and its own holes but I’ll justify this take in another post probably just about legacies-) and this would lead to less and less importance on powers- because why would a community see them as important when the majority of them don’t have very potent ones, or very general ones and it’s more simple to just not use them than hone either a very weak skill or a very niche skill.

The importance of Strength in New Rome and Camp Jupiter’s community; based partially on Ancient Romes importance on Masculinity (which I will not be mentioning much because I am just a silly black cat on the internet and I don’t have the knowledge about Romes masculinity thing) and just what we see from the very concept of Camp Jupiter’s go through Lupa’s training and survive or die, Camp Jupiter’s no magic barrier of protection, the military camp. Conquer or Die. It all places a very big importance on one’s personal strength- their strategic mind, physical prowess, ability to work together as a unit in the army. That the powers could possibly be seen almost as a cheat- that why would you use your powers when you have your training, are you weak? Do you not trust in what you’ve been taught? The Societal idea were given for the Romans is strength- and why use your powers if you are physically capable enough. And everyone is physically capable enough to be a Roman, to Conquer or Die.

Okay on a probably lighter note (idk I was reading the upper passage and that sounded pretty intense-) but also the fact that powers just feel like they wouldn’t be a good thing in Camp’s military settings. Camp Jupiter puts its importance on their military and fighting prowess, their form, the discipline. It’s much harder to fight in coordination if everyone is doing anything that isn’t related to other skills. The fact that the Cohorts aren’t godly ancestor-specific adds to that. So it just doesn’t seem reasonable knowing Camps whole thing.

Okay those three all are my ideas on the surrounding factors that make powers less used and more taboo in Camp/New Rome. This could explain why camp doesn’t display their powers. While it gives more reason for the reactions to Percy other than everyone being suprised at how cool and powerful he is or something idk, it gives Hazel more reason to hide her precious riches power thing.

Now the Outliers, people in camp that comfortably and openly use and display their powers (not including Percy, maybe idk- we’ll see)

First Reyna; we know that Reyna openly used her Bellona strength, warrior spirit and bravery sharing powers that also take away pain? Idk how they explain it but we get that in BoO the knowledge that when leading the Romans into battle Reyna would use her powers. I think this can be explained away by 1st off it’s not that noticeable so might be likely that the legion doesn’t even know she did that, secondly it could be considered that they considered her ability a outlier to the notion- it directly helps them win so I guess they don’t mind, sure they’ll be upset about it but they won’t openly object to it.

Secondly Jason and his wild skill set; he’s Jupiter’s son, pretty much Lupa’s adopted kid and Camp’s prince. They’d let him do whatever, he’s Jupite’rs son! I think they’d be super hypocritical and think him and the powers make him stronger and cooler and whatever because he’s Jupiter’s son and canonically we know they put him on a pedestal and thought he pretty much could do no wrong when he was younger so I think it’s reasonable to assume legionnaires would go along with Jason pulling lightning bolts from thin air and just going, “That’s so cool Jason!!! Yeaaah you go man!” And then turning around and ostracizing someone that used like their water-bending because like- why not just use your actual skill, no need to be a show off, y’know Dave from the 3rd cohort could’ve done that just with his Pugio and a bendy straw.

Octavian; it’s his job. I think Augur’s generally get a pass because it’s their job to be all mysterious and otherworldly and do all the cool retelling prophecies and omens. And he needs the powers to do that so of course he gets a pass.

Bryce Lawerence; he’s a freak (nicely, I love him) but he gives 0 crap if people don’t like it. They can just go to the fields of punishment for all he cares. He literally murdered someone and lit a cat on fire. There is no way in Hades that this man cares about some power taboo. If he wants to do it he’ll do it and if anyone wants to say anything they can suck his spear handle.

Overall; Camp Jupiter are Hypocrites when it comes to powers (obviously, I feel like for many reasons they are hypocrites in many other fields-) and this gives better reason that Octavian and Micheal didn’t immediately drag Percy into the 1st cohort. Because like- you know they would’ve and I think that would’ve been more interesting than the 5th cohort underdog story (like, Hazel and Frank could’ve been the main pushers of that plot and I feel that would’ve been cooler-)

But if we want to stay with Percy being put in the 5th (which if anyone wants to know for my re-imagining he is totally put in the 1st because that gives us an opening to actually characterize notable characters a lot more-) this powers thing gives a reason. All the legion knows about this kid is that he’s got a mouth on him, attracts monsters like a neon billboard with a giant arrow on it, and relies on his powers constantly. And in Camp Jupiter where obedience and discipline are cherished, they don’t need to deal with any more monsters their hands are already full, and that everyone like collectively hates their powers from societal norms. It makes more sense that none of the more notable cohorts would want to tarnish their names or reputation by bringing him on board- so of course the 5th is forced to take him.

Okay that’s my rant on how the community of Romans don’t like their powers unless they can serve a purpose of aiding the army, your the child of Jupiter, or it’s your job.

I am sleepy and therefore I bid you all a good night.

[elendsessor]

i normally don’t talk about fanfics vs canon but ngl fanfics are so good at filling in gaps or giving new context or heck even improving on elements. i mean yeah duh but there’s occasionally one fic that i come across that just makes me actually think about where canon fumbles.

while i love seeing the og gang again, they don’t really add much outside of beat and neku. and while i also really love how beat gets a lot more time to shine and his relationship with neku (as a longtime beatneku enjoyer i appreciated the food), the fact that nothing is brought into question about neku’s clear character shift puzzles me.

of course we don’t know everything about what life was like before neku got killed again or what being in an erased shinjuku does to a guy but what we do know is that 1. coco was the only person who could interact with him and 2. neku seems to have come out a bit scarred, to say the least. yes, at the end of twewy, neku is a lot more open and understanding. yes, people do change overtime. however, his character shift was actually pretty drastic. at least he kept some of his snark and angsty 2000s teen aura in a new day. in neo, though, he mellowed out a lot. he’s more soft spoken and talks like a war vet. i’d argue he even shows a bit of trauma as, when scanning every single person in shibuya during neo’s climax, he does seem incredibly pained. yeah i get scanning literally everyone would be painful but it definitely has some added depth considering where he’d been for three goddamn years plus just the sequence in general seeming to be really draining.

there isn’t much we know about shinjuku, but in the connections thing, there is this one npc who is heavily implied to be what remains of some girl, be it just her soul or simply thoughts. it’s an incredibly minor detail but my best guess is that all that does exist of shinjuku are the thoughts of the erased trapped in some sort of purgatory. a purgatory neku was in. and i imagine that’s part of what made him so fucked up mentally.

yet aside from members of the og gang going “oh hey neku’s back we missed you” and some extra stuff with beat, everything else is sorta just glossed over. neku’s kinda just some mentor for the wicked twisters which is cool but doesn’t highlight nearly enough of who he is as a character and how his experiences affected him.

that’s why i really liked running across a post canon fic that explores that aftermath and acknowledges the change??? the fic in question is called flowers for the dead (please hear me out) by nagiru on ao3 (content warning it does have some implied/referenced suicide) and god i recommend it to hell and back please give it a read. would love to see more discussion or interpretations of neku’s character shift :D

[alybur635]

*Pulls up a chair* So, you wish for me to go on eh? I've had thoughts myself regarding the options

I want to start off with the fact that I don’t think Hizashi’s death was entirely necessary considering the situation at hand. The only reason that came about was to supposedly avoid a war from possibly igniting over the death of the land of lightning’s ambassador and violation of a newly signed treaty. But realistically, I find the idea that Hizashi Hyuga even had to choose doing this ridiculous. I mean you’re gonna sit here and tell me that the Hokage was really okay with putting all the pressure of avoiding a war with another village upon a single clan because a failed kidnapping of a child resulted in someone dying? You’re gonna tell me the Hokage seriously couldn’t find any other ways? I find that ridiculous! I seriously have a hard time seeing how such a situation escalated the way that it did unless the Hokage purposely didn’t push for further compromise or just didn’t get himself too involved with the whole ordeal. The whole ordeal was a political mess that I feel that the hokage didn’t engage in enough, ultimately adding to the cost of Hizashi’s life that day. IDK I find that whole situation infuriating because surely if more involvement and further investigation was done, they would’ve been able to prove the Land of Lightning was at fault and had violated the treaty first while also proving what Hiashi did was justifiable.

I think his death also played tremendously on his twin and Neji. With Neji it’s a little more obvious to us the viewers/readers: he becomes a traumatized, angry, bitter child who clings to this idea of fate and destiny to cope with his father’s death and the position he has in his life. He openly despises the main household for who they are and what the clan represents: masters who chain down the “servants” like birds to cages. I remember seeing this really cool in-depth look into Neji’s character by the @everyneji blog and I *seriously* recommend checking it out, I think it better explains how he’s been shaped due to his father’s demise.

Now in Hiashi’s case I feel it’s a bit different to see, but I think Hizashi’s death has played a huge part into the man we see him as, especially in OG Naruto. We see the guilt he has for the indirect part he played that led to his brother’s death, but I don’t think it’s just the guilt that came. I think he became as jaded and harsh as he is because of his demise. We get to see that around episode 480ish (pls don’t quote me because I don’t remember the exact episode) but we see that Hiashi here isn’t as…shitty as what he is now. Yeah he’s the head of the clan and YES he still does use the curse mark against his brother, personality wise he isn’t as stoic or demeaning as he is. So in my own opinion I feel he was at least a lot more tolerable when his brother was alive, and him dying resulted in Hiashi being this jaded hardass we the viewers first see in OG Naruto. Now don’t get me wrong this is *not* to defend him and his shitty attitude + actions, this bitch needs to fr be pushed down a flight of stairs. And no I don’t think he was correct to wait as long as he did before telling Hizashi’s LITERAL SON the truth about his dad, that was so stupid. He needs a boot to the head.

Now back to Hizashi and him not being dead:

I don’t necessarily believe him still being alive in the story would’ve changed too many aspects of what we’ve seen in the show. I mean Neji and Hiashi certainly would’ve had adjustments to how they are. But, I still think Neji would still have been angry and resentful for different reasons. Hizashi was easily a good father; he could see Neji for the potential he had and had ultimately blamed his own birth for Neji’s position in life. I mean mans literally wanted what he felt Neji was deserving of. But he also seems like the man that would’ve taken on his kid’s punishment if it meant Neji never had to feel the pain that comes with the curse mark. And even if he couldn’t do that, I think Neji would’ve still resented the main family as much as he did for the abuse he and/or his father would have to endure as branch members. I mean kid Neji adored his father, I have no doubt seeing his father punished by his uncle and the main household would be enough reason to spite them AND still somewhat cling to the idea of fate, just maybe not as tightly.

So while I think several aspects of the story could’ve remained if Hizashi could’ve lived, I still think it would be better to bring him back because it would mean Neji would have him in his life. I mean, Neji was a 4 year old child who had to lay his eyes upon his father’s corpse, that shit’s messed up! I’m sure before team guy entered his life he was a lonely kid; he didn’t have anyone in the clan that was nearly as close to him as he was with his father. I mean at least if Hizashi was alive Neji wouldn’t have been suffering with his pain completely alone for several years. He would’ve been at least a happier character with his dad, he deserves that man in his life. And Hinata + Hanabi deserved someone they could go to if their father was being too much for them, he would’ve been a cool ass uncle who isn’t as bitchy as his twin lmao.

IDK Hizashi was a good man and a good father, Neji deserved to have him in his life entirely. Neji would’ve had someone beside Hinata in the clan who he could turn to for anything. I feel his death was one of those that could’ve been real avoided but wasn’t because of outside forces (also Kishimoto didn’t want a good dad existing in Naruto). Also, if I chose to kill Hiashi that would mean Hizashi would have to see him in the afterlife and imo Hizashi does NOT need to deal with that man in his death, he needs his peace LMAO

[f0point5]

It’s not a dumb question, I have no real idea.Earlier this year Christian appeared to stage a coup to get rid of Helmut, and that ultimately failed, and Helmut was renewed for another 3 years. Maybe someone from Helmut’s camp is pushing back?Maybe Christian has been a bit too forceful in pushing his agenda in Red Bull?I really don’t know. Because it seems the people who want him out are Red Bull, not Red Bull Racing, so that’s a whole different story outside the paddock that we know very little about. If anyone has more in depth info please share!///okay so for the RB civil war it was reported the issues were that Horner wanted more power, Marko is still the one who has the final word on everything, he makes the final decision on the drivers. Horner wanted to put in an ally in the Alpha Tauri but Marko was the one to decide who took over for Alpha Tauri. Now before Didi died Marko would just go directly to him for anything and while it was initially reported that he no longer had that access it was later said that RB is still basically run the same, Marko goes directly to Mintzlaff for anything. Horner tried to go to the Thai owners to get their support to get Marko out since they are majority owners but they've always have been in the background and not involved. I'm guessing somehow Max found out and he also went directly to the Thai owner to let them know he didn't want Marko out. It was reported that Mintzlaff was already aware that Marko has Max's support. Now the dutch reporters said that one of the issues that pushed the Verstappens to support Marko was that Horner wants Daniel back in RB. They fear that because of Horner's close relationship with Daniel he will give him preferential treatment so they chose to side with Marko who does not want Daniel back in RB. Interesting enough both Horner and Max had given interviews before the civil war was reported about how Max is closer to Marko and sees him a family figure and he has more of a professional relationship with Horner.

Well, a lot of this was conjecture, as far as Max going to the Thai owners, and Daniel being central to the conflict.

But I guess what I’m wondering is, what happened to make the Thai owners turn on Christian? Because it seemed at the time it was very much, VerstappenMateschitzMarko vs Horner and the Thai partners. Okay, the coup failed but why would so many people turn around and oust Christian even after this debate has been settled as Helmut has been renewed?

I’m not sure I buy that Verstappen (either of them) would ever think Christian would favour Daniel. Jos, I can buy has some leftover animosity from 2017, but Max? GP literally sits above the second driver’s engineer in the org chart, Max is far and away the faster driver…I don’t see him being worried about Daniel. I definitely think Max may have stepped in to please Helmut’s case because it’s like his grandfather, but he was also clear he didn’t want things to change. I can’t see him supporting getting rid of Christian, especially at such a critical time.

I just want to know why RB turned on Christian at this point

[alphinias]

That bridgerton sneak peak had some good chemistry they might make me tune in idk, I usually agree with you on most things ship related but I have a problem with this specific ship, Colin is the least interesting of the siblings so far but that's okay I didn't care for anthony either before his season, my bigger problem is Penelope, I think they tried to go for the drama and the twists too much and made her seem kind of awful? They're trying to pretend racism doesn't exist in that era but the way she outed Marina in s1 ( who was not doing a good thing at all but I don't she had much of a choice given her other option was abject poverty) and the way she talks about her friends in her column and outs everyone's shit, things that have really serious consequences on people's lives. The writers literally called her a villain which???? They're doing something I feel a lot of shows have a problem with lately, trying to girlboss women doing shitty things, same with their brand of white feminism for Eloise who spends all her scenes lamenting her fate and being "quirky" with no actual depth or confronting her privilege or trying to help other women or really anything at all, all she does is talk like a "not like other girls" girlie circa Tumblr 2012 and they're thinking omg we're being such feminists right now 🤣😅🤣

Girllll you better tune in anyway so we can get more seasons and other ships you might like better! PRESERVE OUR LIMITED ROMANCE GENRE.

In all seriousness, I totally get where you’re coming from! I personally love polin and I’m very excited for them, but I don’t think the writing has always been the best. Obviously a lot of polin fans don’t agree with me, but I still think this season not being Benedict’s is so strange and a mistake. The general audience adores him and I think both Colin and Penelope could’ve done with another season of personal growth (and slow burn) to help them win over the rest of the audience more. I like Colin and I think he’s actually really funny when they give him a chance, but he’s done nothing to scream leading man like Benedict has yet. I guess S3 will tell us how much is on the writing so far vs Luke Newton. I want him to be so amazing, but I get the doubts because I still have some nerves about it too. I think the sneak peek looked great and is a great start so I’m gonna go in with optimism and positive thoughts!

Gotta defend Eloise because I think her thinking she’s ranting and valid but actually being more out of touch than she realizes is mostly purposeful! I like that as a character flaw and I think it’s realistic for someone in her position. Or maybe I just love Eloise lol. Penelope is a bit of a more… complex case. I see why people hate her, although I personally mostly like her even though I think she sucks for what she did to the Bridgertons. She’s just treated so polarizing one way or the other by the fandom and the producers are obsessed with her and I think that’s part of the problem.

I have doubts any of the Bridgerton ships will beat kathony for me but overall this fandom is so weird! I don’t get the ship wars amongst the ships because they are all canon and they’re all meant to have their spotlight and be enjoyed. I don’t mean you anon when I say this btw, I mean more the hardcore Bridgerton fandom. It’s why I don’t engage with them a lot lol. I just want to enjoy a cute ship every season.

[tarisilmarwen]

Rebels Rewatch: “Rise of the Old Masters“

Happy Father’s Day!  Rather appropriately we are talking about a keystone Kanan-Ezra episode today.  I swear I didn’t plan that, just how the timing worked out, lol.

Anyway...

I briefly mentioned this in my coverage of “Spark of Rebellion” but one of the reoccurring elements that tend to crop up in all my favorite characters (because I’m horribly predictable and have a Type) is:

“Has complicated yet ultimately heartwarming storgeic relationship with (surrogate) father figure.”

Soooooooo yeah, Kanan and Ezra pretty much hit me right in that particular button.

Poor Kanan fumbling with the lessons that came so instinctively to him. XD

“Actually that one always confused me too.”  Love that Kanan can admit it.

Kanan’s approach is almost adorable in how inept it is, he’s just kind of throwing things against the wall hoping something will stick.  In perhaps the worst environment to do any of this.

(Seriously Kanan, on top of the Ghost, while it’s in midair?!  Disaster was inevitable.)

Hhhngl, look how Ezra’s eyes light up when Kanan offers him the lightsaber, he’s so eager for this.

Another quick instance of Ezra flinching as if anticipating being hit, watch close and you can see he ducks his head as well as squeezes his eyes closed briefly.

Kanan forgot to teach good weapons safety lol.

Ezra actually gets a few cartons when he peeks. :)

Aaaaaand down he goes, certain unmentioned uncharitable portions of fandom will not let up on Kanan about this particular series of mistakes.

Is practicing on top of the Ghost irresponsible child endangerment?  Yes but... that’s literally the point?????  Kanan has no idea what he’s doing and makes horrible mistakes left and right?????  That’s why he’s so afraid and reluctant to teach Ezra?????  That’s his whole motivation for wanting to go get Luminara?????

Oh but if characters do not relate to each other absolutely perfectly without any friction or conflict or mistakes whatsoever that’s horrible and toxic.

Said at least one Maul stan without a hint of irony.

Okay, done salting, let’s enjoy this moment of Ezra trying to play it cool in front of Sabine despite being in eminent danger of falling to his death.

“What, no, this is nothing.  I’m fine.” XD

Fun fact: Pretty sure a gifset of this moment was one of the first Rebels-related posts I ever saw on my dashboard.

Hera looks very concerned here, lol.

And our first glimpse of what a Loth-cat looks like.  Cutest addition to the Star Wars menagerie ever.

Ezra’s theme is piping in here, fragmented and quiet.

*resists the urge to go into another ranting paragraph about how uncharitable parties in fandom use this scene to argue that the Ghost crew are actually terrible towards Ezra and don’t care about him properly*

Once again, everything in the eyes.  So much is unspoken but conveyed with just a look.

Friiiiiiick his expression here breaks my heart.

Casually referencing the events of last episode which should have been fandom’s first clue that it was more narratively tied into things than they thought and also introducing a new story element that plays out later.  I don’t remember what I thought about Gall Trayvis the first time around, I’m pretty sure I found it weird and fishy though.

Ha ha ha the casual Fridge Horror of the Imperial broadcaster talking about a “planetary liberation” via Base Delta Zero protocol.

FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO MIGHT NOT KNOW: Base Delta Zero is basically code for “Have a bunch of Star Destroyers systematically incinerate everything on a planet’s surface from orbit.”

Soooooo yeah, there’s probably not much left of that particular “liberated” world.

Kind of interesting that Ezra chooses to confide in Chopper about his fears here.

I do like the nice cloud effects.

Kanan is in a very serious mood here, one we haven’t seen from him yet.  Speaks to the depths of how badly he wants this to succeed.

Badass Stormtrooper takedown immediately ruined by feral gremlin child. <3

Aaaaaand yet another instance of Ezra flinching like he expects Kanan to hit him.  Just what exactly caused such a pronounced startle effect, exactly?

Don’t think about bby Ezra growing up on the streets, don’t think about bby Ezra growing up on the streets--

Ezra looks so crestfallen here ow ow ow ow. :(

Hera shivers as if it’s cold, which could be taken straightforwardly but also I like to think she senses the bad vibes about the place.

Oh hey, now’s a good time to remind people of the horrible headcanon theory someone sent me about why Kanan can still sense Luminara even though she’s dead.

You’re welcome.

LOOK AT THIS TIRED FATHER AND HIS THREE HORRIBLE CHILDREN.  Love how Zeb and Sabine openly roast him while he’s right there, terrible influences on Ezra the both of you. XD

Snrk, the one Stormtrooper getting his helmet caught in the lift doors lololol.

The music has been periodically sparse throughout this episode, the quiet parts giving all focus to dialogue, but it’s picked up quite a bit here.

I hear the Force Theme strings prelude of course.

It is physically painful how much Ezra already hero-worships Kanan and looks up to him.  He didn’t want to learn how to be a Jedi from just anyone, he wanted to learn from Kanan specifically because thinks Kanan is so cool and amazing.  Ezra is constantly in awe of him this episode.

But, I mean, is it any wonder that an emotionally vulnerable teenage boy with deeply-seated abandonment issues would latch onto the first available and positive adult male influence in his life?

The Force theme coming in more fully here to trick us right before the horrible reveal, though the way it sours on the end note is a little five-second musical foreshadowing.

Hi Grand, bringing the Imperial March with you I see.

And then his theme breaks in after the commercial break cut and lemme just appreciate it again, it’s so nicely dark and foreboding.  That tiny little snatch of Force Theme on the trumpet can barely be heard through it, it’s too overpowering.

Grand refrains from going for an easy kill several times this fight.  He likes to play with his food, apparently.  Even toying with Kanan he’s waaaaaay outclassing him, very neat and precise fencing strokes here.

Kanan’s heavy flailing is actually very at odds with his supposed preferred form, Soresu, Form 3, a primarily reflective and defensive form, which makes Grand’s comment about him being a poor student sting a bit more.

Lololol my man doesn’t even flinch at Ezra’s slingshot bolts.

Hngl the smoke element is fantastic here.  Watch it waft around Kanan and Ezra as they run through it.  This is not the kind of effect work you usually get on CGI kids cartoon shows.

Kanan’s form actually improves a bit after the cutaway, his footing is more solid and he’s expending less effort, making his blocking stances more effective at turning back Grand’s blade.  So that jibe from Grand apparently kicked Kanan’s brain into focus.

Oh yep, all those troopers are dead, that is not a survivable explosion.

Kanan’s managing the spinny Jedi flips now; he’s untensing and likely falling back into muscle memory and connection to the Force.  I love how Star Wars tends to depict Jedi survivors getting back into practice after they haven’t picked up their sabers or connected to the Force in a long while, awkward at first but slowly getting the hang of it again, remembering their training, moving through basics into more complex moves until they’re comfortable again.  I know A New Dawn also depicts Kanan tapping into the Force as straining a muscle that hasn’t been used in a while, nice consistency across the board there.

“He is unfocused and undisciplined.”  “Well then we’re perfect for each other!”

And one of my favorite Papa Wolf Kanan moments right here when Kanan slams Grand up against the ceiling. :)

The Force Theme is finally louder and more confident here and Grand’s has taken a pause.

Buuuuuuut it’s soon back in force lol.

I dunno what it is but I really love the animation in Grand’s unflinching run through the closing doors here, even when he has to leap over them he doesn’t even break stride.

Ezra’s slicing and lockpicking skills kind of fall by the wayside as he focuses more on Jedi training, which is kind of a shame, I liked that he was a bit tech-savvy in ways Sabine wasn’t.

Why I like to include little moments here and there in my fics where he still gets to use his talents.

Can I appreciate this little moment of Sabine reaching for him in concern?

Of course I can, who’s going to stop me?

And one of my favorite master-padawan moments right here, Kanan finally giving some solid instruction (”Picture the locking mechanism in your mind.”), doing it with him, and it’s something easy that Ezra can already do albeit on a bigger scale.

A very victorious Force Theme to mark the occasion. :)

Something Rebels does when it needs to emphasize Kanan and Ezra’s connection is basically have them mirror each other’s pose, this is one of the first examples.  Ezra’s straining a little bit more in his expression but they’re perfectly in sync and mirror-matched limb for limb.

WHICH DOESN’T NECESSARILY MAKE THE PARALLELED IMAGERY IN THE FINALE HURT MORE BUT IT ADDS A LAYER.

Ohhhhhhh hang on, does anyone wonder if Hera leading the tibedees here was inspiration for the eventual purrgil surprise?

It’s on theme at least, lol.

I hear the “Rebels Shenanigans” leitmotif here, bit more dramatic than normal, lovely.

Ezra’s theme coming in as we return to Lothal and man, there’s really nothing I could say about this scene that hasn’t already been said, this is one of fandom’s favorites, we can all spill ink about Ezra’s fear of abandonment and Kanan’s sense of inadequacy and how the Force tends to bring together pairs that teach and grow each other.

How Kanan finally figures out and understands what Yoda’s “Do or do not” line means, how it’s all about your mental state, you can’t give up before you’ve started, you have to be all in and fully committed.

How he’s realizing he has to commit to this and not half-ass it and that leads him to adjust his strategy and go much slower and more meticulously in this lovely little last scene which has the distinct look and feel of a father and son playing catch in the yard. ^_^

Our first real “plot-heavy“ episode of the series, heavy on the drama and interpersonal character conflict.  Can see why it’s the episode that convinced a lot of people to stay on board.  It delves much more deeply into Kanan and Ezra’s master-padawan connection, the Found Family aspects of which are, of course, widely loved.  Their relationship was always one of the show’s strengths.  Like Ezra and Zeb’s friendship it starts off rocky but there’s an extra emotional and personal element in that Kanan is the teacher, the “parent”, and they’re both connected to the Force, something no one else can teach Ezra about.  Kanan has to be the one to guide Ezra through that learning process because he’s the only one who understands it, who can bring that aspect out of Ezra and make him truly who he is.

Kanan really starts to step up after this.  He’s still got a LOT of fears and worries and insecurities, as he’ll tell Yoda later, but he’s over his initial mental block now.  All the better for Ezra, for helping him feel wanted and safe. :)

Ahhhh I love this episode, the character growth from this point to the end is just *chef kiss*.  More worried spacedad Kanan up next week, hopefully I’ll have that post up quicker than this one.

Coming in last minute like my newborn last month oy.