#aspd question

[i-3at-s0ap]

Elon Musk isn't a sociopath Trump isn't a narcissist Jeff Bezos isn't a psycho they are terrible racist bigoted assholes but I'm begging y'all to fucking give a shit about people with personality disorders. PLEASE.

[writingbrainrot]

Hey does anyone who has aspd have tips for how i can best communicate with bio dad who has undiagnosed aspd.

I am audhd and also a system with c-ptsd/ctx

Unrelated to the aspd symptoms that i personally think bio dad very clearly shows, he tends to also end up toxic due to the childhood trauma he went through.

I could explain to bio mom who has bpd why what she was doing was hurting me after a lot of effort and heartache because her neurodiversity manifests so that her emotions are how she processes and understands the world.

Bio dad enters his shell/becomes defensive at any "stop that" or "no" which triggers my SA trauma so it ends up escalating and i end up getting really serious autistic meltdowns.

It's almost like he has emotional responses to the world but tries to logically pick that apart but has a boatload of alexithymia.

I can't figure out which communication method will make him "listen to me to understand instead of listen to me to respond because unless i explicitly ask for a response, then i don't need one, especially when i am upset and dysregulated and crying" (yes i've told him that i need him to do so in these words, this is a paraphrasing quote that i've tried to write accurately)

Because from what i can tell his fight or flight or freeze gets mildly activated at any percieved critique and then he treats me like a threat and in the past compared me to his abusive mother despite me being his underage child at the time which struck me as odd and is why i remark on it. He seems to still be doing that but just like then he denies accusing me of being a bully or thinking of me as a threat. Despite his body instantly changing, his tone going very short and aggressive, starting to insult and raise his voice etc etc which i conclude is him being defensive.

But as i'm sure you understand i need to be able to tell him "hey stop, you're hurting me" and he stops instead of trying to debate if he has actually hurt me (which i have also expressed he shouldn't do as that causes things to escalate for me)

So the tldr is:

What communication method/script works best? Ik one person with aspd is only one person with aspd and doesnt represent the whole neurotype but i have literally no insight into how this neurotype processes the world, thinks and feels compared to my neurotype so i need something, anything, to start bridging the gap/translating what he is saying to smth i can understand and translate what i want to say into smth he can understand.

Why i'm bridging the gap instead of going low or no contact is because i am disabled and physically dependent on him atm, as soon as i get a chance to change that i will but atm im incapable of doing so. Ik this sitch is horrible for both of us but i literally have no other option than try to make it work atm/ctx

[doomer-soyjack]

Another day in which most cluster B personality disorder resources and groups are majorly composed of BPD and everyone brings awareness or support to people with it.

Either that, or if you look up specifically NPD or ASPD you'll get manuals on why we're wrong, and should be executed on sight or kill ourselves, and egotypicals or prosocials even with other personality disorders agreeing.

[dead-orange-club]

Cluster B Personality Disorder userboxes

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[little-cirrus-fibratus]

A genuine question for people with ASPD or/and NPD

People with ASPD (antisocial personality disorder) or/and NPD (narcissistic personality disorder), I am genuinely curious about what you believe is the core part of aspd and npd, and how you see the world. How does it feel to have these disorders? How do people treat you? How do you treat people? How can one understand how it must be like for you?

These disorders are VERY stigmatised. Even actual medical journals and sites perpetuate this stigmatisation, and there's this whole thing of "narcissistic abuse" or that all people with antisocial personality disorder are serial killers. I simply refuse to believe this, it's not nuanced enough, and I genuinely seek to understand. And maybe other people may find this thread of posts and also understand.

So people with npd/aspd, add on, explain anything you wish people knew about your disorder.

Coming from a fellow person with a highly stigmatised disorder (schizophrenia) who wishes to understand.

[titan-god-helios]

simply existing as neurodivergent is tiring.

no matter which it is, every neurodivergence comes with its own set of symptoms and traits that makes even sitting and trying to relax something that takes energy.

for me, my adhd makes it so that i have a CONSTANT inner monologue. and that "monologue" consists of SO much. it feels like there's a main monologue of my most prominent thoughts, another monologue in the background and another after that too, with music playing off in the distance, mental images flashing in and out and also having to stay present in the real world so i don't fuck everything up in real life. my brain is always on high speed and when it isn't there's still mental noise regardless from the monologue. and its fucking tiring. it makes my social battery lower than ever and means that i never truly get a moments' peace unless i superengineer my surroundings to force it. which again, takes energy.

if you add the fact that my autism connotes sensory issues, a baseline of anxiety for pretty much everything due to yk. uncertainty of situations, having to mask and be hypervigilant to keep up my masking etc, it becomes even more tiring. masking whilst being distracted in a conversation is even harder.

then my npd dogpiles essentially and makes it so there's a subsection of my inner monologue dedicated to screaming at me and mocking me or others all the time. that's fucking tiring.

i get intrusive thoughts. i disassociate a lot. my mood can change very quickly due to the emotional dysregulation that comes with my everything. that's tiring.

it feels like my brain is constantly doing its best to fuck with me at all times. and its doing a pretty damn good job at it.

that's not to mention other neurodivergences that other people may have such as did/osdd, schizospec disorders, cluster a, b and c personality disorders, down syndrome, dyslexia, dyspraxia, dysgraphia, dyscalculia, bipolar disorder, synaesthesia, intellectual disabilities, auditory processing disorders, anxiety disorders, depressive disorders, tourettes' syndrome, tic disorders, cerebral palsy, parkinsons', alexithymia (which i have and makes it exhausting to just. figure out how you feel at any given time and makes things such as giving consent much harder and lengthier) and so on

if you happen to have physical disabilities alongside neurodivergence, it's even fucking harder.

it's fucking hard. it's not a bed of roses, or doesn't only affect us when we're doing stuff. us sitting on the couch and trying to relax may take enormous amounts of effort that you simply do not see.

please be patient with us. we're trying our best.

[narcissisticpdcultureis]

questioning npd + conduct/aspd is having very violent homicidal thoughts and then day dreaming about getting caught and being prasied and feared in jail or the judge letting me off the hook because of my tear jerking empathy demanding life story

.

[cluster-b-culture-is]

(possibly) cluster B culture is wanting to stab urself in public to make sure everybody knows something's deeply wrong with you so that you get the spotlight, and at the same time hate being pitied or show any weakness or receive the consequences

.

[antisocialsharky]

Hello! I just wanted to say that I've been using some of your posts talking about ASPD to help me better understand it to write an OC I'm writing. I have a question though, do you mind talking about more symptoms of ASPD that I should keep in mind when writing her?

Hi! Very glad to hear that my posts have been helpful and its cool that you are aiming for good representation!

When it comes to how ASPD symptoms should be written and which ones should make it into literature, theres different opinions, so this is gonna go a bit beyond your question I guess? Just to get a roundabout view.

1. Recovery Position

• First thing to rly keep in mind is that the intensity of the symptoms, the way they present and the way the character would deal with them, absolutely depends on where they are in recovery.

• It also depends on what you understand as recovery, be that the reducing of overall symptoms so they are less often present, the act of reducing the harm that is done by your symptoms (ex: trough redirection, or actively learning prosocial behavior) or just learning to find a way to live in society the way you are. No ones view on recovery or the way they go about it (or if they decide not to) is in any way better or superior, but it is an aspect that does change how many symptoms you show in which way, so its important to think about when writing a character.

2. Covert/Overt Symptom Presentation

• Another thing to think about, depending on what fits into your story, is the question as to whether your character is very obviously antisocial, or whether they go about it in a more covert secret way. Can they control which symptoms they show when? Or are they lost to their impulses and emotions? Do they come from a background where hiding their symptoms was essential, or were they able/forced to present obviously?

• Theres also a more mixed presentation where some symptoms are more obvious and others are not, depending on stuff like what meets your needs best, how much control you have and whether or not you've done any active work on the symptoms yet, etc.

• Then you can also think about the personal opinion of your character on symptom presentation. Do they believe that they should get to just be themselves? Are they of the opinion that people just have to deal with their symptoms and accept them that way? Or do they think that they have to hide some symptoms in order to fit into society better? Have they potentially adopted some prosocial ways of thinking and model their presentation after that? Depending on what it is, it will obviously look different.

3. The Causes of their ASPD

• Depending on the type of trauma they went trough that made them develop ASPD, presentation will differ. Its highly individual of course, but theres some themes, like people who come from violent households often being violent themselves, people who were neglected struggling with the social aspects like empathy & remorse, people who were lied to/manipulated/berated all the time adopting similar manners, people who had to commit crimes and/or witnessed those often continuing to do so because its normal to them, etc.

• The other aspect is genetics, where certain tendencies can be given from parent to child or grandparent to grandchild, such as impulsive tendencies, the type of temper someone has, access (or denied access) to certain parts of the brain that are responsible for prosocial emotions, etc. Those genetics mix with the trauma and sometimes push the presentation in certain directions, so its a thing to keep in mind.

• Some CD/ASPD symptoms can also develop/be made worse trough bullying, intense experiences in childhood/teens, hanging around with people who engage in/normalize certain behaviors, etc. (ex: kids with delinquient tendencies who hang around other kids with those, may be more likely to develop that as a continous behavior). So its also worth thinking about who your character was around while they grew up, who influenced them how and what was normalized to them.

4. The Current DSM-V ASPD Criteria

• When it comes to the core symptoms of ASPD, theres 3 out of 7 DSM criteria points your character should meet. It doesn't matter which ones, but it has to be at least three! Your character should also be older than 18, have shown conduct disorder symptoms before they turned 15 and have their ASPD symptoms even in absence of other comorbidities, substances and/or episodes (Criterion B-D which I am not quoting, but thats it summed up)

• The 7 criteria points recognized in the DSM-V are (and I quote):

A. A pervasive pattern of disregard for and violation of rights of others, occuring since age 15 years, as indicated by three (or more) of the following:

1. Failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors, as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are ground for arrest.

2. Deceitfulness, as indicated by repeated lying, use of aliases or conning others for personal profit or pleasure.

3. Impulsivity or failure to plan ahead.

4. Irritability or aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults.

5. Reckless disregard for safety of self or others.

6. Consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations.

7. Lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated or stolen from another.

• Everything after "as indicated by" is an example of a possible presentation. The DSM-V acknowledges that there are other possible ways in which symptoms can show up.

5. The Alternative ASPD Model in the DSM-V

• This is not used to officially diagnose people with ASPD, but is one idea, as to how personality disorder classification could work in the future. It looks at the symptoms as dimensions, under which possible experiences could fall and mentions quite a few things the current criteria doesn't, so I'll quote it below as well:

A. Moderate or greater impairment in personality functioning, manifested by characteristic difficulties in two or more of the following areas:

1. Identity: Egocentrism, self esteem derived from personal gain, power or pleasure.

2. Self direction: Goal setting based on personal gratification, absence of prosocial internal standards, associated with failure to conform to lawful or culturally normative ethical behavior.

3. Empathy: Lack of concern for feelings, needs or suffering of others, lack of remorse after hurting or mistreating another.

4. Intimacy: Incapacity for mutually intimate relationships, as exploitation is primary means of relating to others, including by deceit and coercion, use of dominance or intimidation to control others.

B. Six or more of the following seven pathological personality traits:

1. Manipulativeness (an aspect of antagonism): Frequent use of subterfuge to influence or control others, use of seduction, charm, glibness, or ingratiation to achieve ones ends.

2. Callousness (an aspect of antagonism): Lack of concern for feelings or problems of others, lack of guilt or remorse about negative or harmful effects of ones actions on others, aggression, sadism.

3. Deceitfulness (an aspect of antagonism): Dishonesty and fraudulence, misrepresentation of self, embellishment or fabrication when relating events.

4. Hostility (an aspect of antagonism): Persistent or frequent angry feelings, anger or irritability in response to minor slights and insults, mean, nasty or vengeful behavior.

5. Risk taking (an aspect of disinhibition): Engagement in dangerous, risky and potentially self damaging activities, unnecessarily and without regard for consequences, boredom proneness and thoughtless initiation of activities to counter boredom, lack of concern for ones limitations and denial of the reality of personal danger.

6. Impulsivity (an aspect of disinhibition): Acting on the spur of the moment in response to immediate stimuli, acting on a momentary basis without a plan or consideration of outcomes, difficulty establishing and following plans.

7. Irresponsibility (an aspect of disinhibition): Disregard for - and failure to honor - financial and other obligations or commitments, lack of respect for - and lack of follow trough on - agreements and promises.

Note: The individual is at least 18 years of age.

6. Other Common Experiences

• Theres a few experiences that quite a few people with ASPD report, that have not explicitly made it into the criteria. Sometimes these are examples for certain symptoms and/or are implied, sometimes these have been studied but haven't been written as a requirement for diagnosis and sometimes these are not supported by science/still debated by science.

• Apathy, a total lack of emotion, overall muted emotions or having trouble to access certain emotions, is something some people with ASPD talk about a lot. There is no scientific consensus yet, as to whether this is an ASPD symptom. Some theories suggest it falls under PTSD (absence of positive emotions & tendency to experience negative ones and/or having dissociated away from the emotions and/or having put up a sort of non permanent barrier as a form of protection), depression (common comorbidity, anhedonia & apathy can both be part of it), other PDs (schizoid, borderline episodes, etc.) or something else entirely. While its not sure whether its caused by ASPD, or not, a lot of people with it seem to report differences in their capability to feel a full range of intense emotions.

• The criteria talks about aggressiveness and physical fights, which is not the only way in which this symptom seems to commonly present. Harming animals, homicidal ideation, dealing with aggressive thoughts & urges without actually acting on them, verbal aggression, taking out aggression on self or property, etc. are also often reported.

• The current criteria doesn't mention it at all and the alternative talks about a complete inability to form bonds, but community consensus seems to be, that while forming emotional bonds is harder & happens more rarely, it is still possible. The intensity differs (some describe the bond as a logical construct, some only do platonic bonds, some only do romantic bonds, some describe deep obsessiveness, etc.) as does the number of people they find themselves bonded with. Theres also a significant amount of people in the community that describe a phenamenon similar to BPDs FP (aka a bond to a person that is defined by the symptoms of the personality disorder).

• There is some debate on whether or not an absence of prosocial inner standards makes it impossible or more difficult to define personal morals and understand how morality works. Some people with ASPD say they have no difficulties, some report that they struggle with the understanding part, some say they struggle with upholding those norms and others struggle with both. It seems like ASPD could make it more difficult to understand and/or respect the way societies morals work for some, which makes room for conflict.

• Personality Disorders are what we call egosyntonic, which usually means that they are in alignment with what we as people think is the correct way to feel, think and act. This doesn't mean that its inherently impossible to change the way you think/feel/act and that recovery is impossible, but it may make it more difficult to break out of the patterns (if that is what one wants). Some people show little problems in this area, some need a lot of outer assistance and others either can't or don't want to change.

7. Other Things To Keep In Mind

• You should probably think about whether your character fits the psychopathy subtype & if yes which definition of it you want to use (theres different theories)

• ASPD can influence every aspect of your life, so it may interfere with things in such a roundabout way that you wouldn't even think about it at first (ex: Disregard for safety of self => Disregard for your own health => You get ill carelessly => You dont take ur meds responsibly, or put off a doctors visit for months/years => You end up with longterm damage => You don't treat it responsibly => You get more ill => Death. Which happens to ppl without ASPD too, but can indeed be a presentation of that symptom.). Additionally comorbdities interact & interfere with ASPD symptoms and may alter/add onto presentation!

• You could also always add the ASPD stigma into the mix and how your character responds to it/how it influences them. Does it make them not wanna recover? Does it make them wanna recover even more to prove everyone wrong? Are they trying to get into therapy but no therapist wants them? Is it on a court record and causing problems that way? Do they lose relationships/friendships? Does it change the way they see themselves or others? etc.

• The key with ASPD characters is not to just make them into good people or portray them as angels and also not to always make them into the cruel villain. The key is to show that they are an individual, a human being, a single example for what this disorder can present as. If you can somehow portray that the presentation of ASPD in your character is just how this specific character is and is not how the disorder inherently presents itself, you nailed it! Cus u'll have ASPDers who want to just stay the way they are and who are exactly what you'd imagine a cruel villain to be like, you have ASPDers who you couldn't ever distinguish from a prosocial person, cus they learned to blend in and you've got ASPDers who decide that they wanna do a 180 and behave in the most prosocial way possible and then you have everything in between and beyond. So as long as your character would meet criteria, as long as you're not spreading misinfo and as long as its clear that its just one example of a possible presentation, you're good in my opinion (but this is indeed just my opinion and others may disagree).

Note: If you need examples for the specific symptoms, you can ofc send another ask, this is more of a general overview of what exists, cus going into detail on each would make this post wayyy too long.

[egosuicide666]

i wish i could be more open about my sadistic traits. i feel so different from other people. i’m not sure if i want to be like everyone else . i like being different but it gets lonely. no matter what i feel incredibly lonely. like i’m an alien in this society. i feel so exhausted talking lately. what’s the point in talking if i’m not entertained? i rlly only talk on here and to my best friend. but that’s really it. i’ve gave up talking. it’s boring. small talk is boring.

[aspd-culture]

aspd + probably delusional culture is feeling like some kind of substance abuse will fix you (it definitely wont but can't hurt to try right?) (it definitely can but oh well)

aspd-culture-is

[ur-all-fucking-idiots]

Serious question to 'normal' ppl:

Why do u talk to ppl?

To me it's a cure for boredom, but I've been told this isn't the case for most ppl and now I'm curious

[jackmythix]

Yo does anyone have a list of real aspd (specifically sociophathic) symptoms that aren't just "omg they're so manipulative and heartless and if you're toxic THEN you count and you can never be a good person if you're a sociopath" bullshit?? I don't want misinformed trash, I want actual factual symptoms of what it is.

I think I'm finally ready to do some personal reflecting that I've put off for years,,,,

Obviously if I think I don't fit the criteria then its whatevs, I would rather question and find out I'm not then never question and always wonder.

[doomer-soyjack]

I don't know why people get so defensive and morally superior when you point out the nature of human relationships is transactional. I'm not denying or diminishing your "love", I'm just pointing something out.

[egopathic]

it doesn’t help when subreddits like r/sociopath will mock or fake claim other pwASPD for suffering from the disorder.

even tumblr—probably because of vulnerability/weakness repulsion— will cling to that stereotype, to the point i seriously wondered if i was the odd one out for being open about the trauma and pain that comes with being antisocial.

people forget the disorder part of it, that it’s not some foolproof survival mechanism that makes us super genius machiavellian machines but a brain trying to survive situations it never had to survive before, or deal with trauma people shouldn’t have to deal with.

right on the money, anon. but unfortunately, i’m not convinced it’s a solvable problem.

we’re often our own worst enemy. i say this a lot so ik im beating a dead horse, but my god is socializing hard among a bunch of antisocials!! especially ones who are open and talking about their ASPD- online or offline. but the exact behaviors that define antisociality are the same ones that beget the actions you’re describing here. often when we’re not trying to hide our shit (like in a community geared towards us), we’re unempathetic, unwilling to validate other’s experiences, quick to anger, overly harsh, and endlessly ego driven.

it’s frustrating or even enraging when it’s turned on you though, i get annoyed with it too. gotta always keep in mind that the person on the other end of the reply (especially if you’re talking to other pwASPD) is just as stubborn as you. there’s literally no winning and we’re all sitting on a big rock spinning thru space. hit em with the “that’s an interesting perspective lol” and take your attention to something better. you deserve to not be shit on by randos who think they know you <3

[happyk44]

I'm really enjoying the idea of Lewin clocking Renzou and deciding to carry on Osceola's legacy by trying to help him the way Osceola helped him, except 1) Renzou does not want Lewin to be his mentor and 2) all of Lewin's advice starts with "well, Osceola said".

It's fun because Lewin misses Osceola but doesn't really know how to mourn him so his method of doing so is by bothering the shit out of Renzou, who is rapidly running out of places to hide, to understand what Osceola got out of taking care of and teaching him.