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buckydeservesthebest · 2 months ago

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All of this.

I mean… how apathetic and unfair can anyone be to want to normalize a disabled person being dismembered by being taken away from his disability aid by a mechanism put is his prosthesis behind his back. A prosthesis that he did not even request to have in the first place. One that was given to him so that he could serve as a soldier and fight for Wakanda.

T'Challa himself recognized that Bucky was tired of fighting, his expression of disdain and misery at seeing the Vibranium arm as synonymous with being called to new battle says it all. (At least Boseman had more class in giving T'Challa a touch of compassion instead of acting like a proud and apathetic king who ignores the wishes for peace of a poor man who's seen too much already, and readying him for combat in the same way he orders the readiness of his other weapons.)

I would like to say that even though I would say it is canonical that Bucky is as well versed a fighter as Steve and T'Challa for combat.(Marvel's official website describes that he goes toe-to-toe with them.)

(The Winter Soldier didn't lose his first confrontation with Steve, and I would argue that he held the upper hand for most of the fight. In the second encounter, I think it's arguable to say that he seemed more focused on protecting the success of Project Insight rather than actually killing him. And in their last fight on CW, he was clearly able to neutralize Steve.)

Bucky was already described as an outstanding athlete in the Smithsonian panel. The canonical Mavel Dictionary: Visual Dictionary book describes him as a three-time YMCA welterweight champion (though admittedly there is no mention of this anywhere else, but that same book also confirms that Bucky was drafted and did not voluntarily enlist, so we can give him the benefit of the doubt).

Bucky was a capable enough leader to have earned his rank of Sergeant (E-5) in just one year and five months after he was drafted (January 1942). In WWII most sergeants, and the best sergeants, are considerably older than both their men and their lieutenants. This means that throughout the four years of the war, sergeants were mostly drawn from the older recruits and the existing cadres of corporals. Bucky was the youngest member of his team. Only very exceptional men between the ages of 18 and 26 can hope to possess the maturity looked for in a Sergeant.

Bucky was also 90% accurate at long-range shooting, which is why he was the team's de-facto sniper.

Side note: note how the role of sniper Bucky was always shown in a protective manner, by watching the backs of his comrades and firing only when an enemy approached them and not before. This is hardly ruthlessness, especially when you consider that Steve and the rest of the Howlies also used firearms.

And according to the Visual Dictionary book, his incredible sniper skills inspired the legend among HYDRA troops that their soldiers would drop dead as Captain America approached.

BUT...

Having said that, *this does NOT mean in the slightest that Bucky is innately ruthless and that violence is part of his nature.* Because being naturally talented either in hand-to-hand combat, as a leader, or by having good marksmanship is NOT synonymous with being ruthless and violent.

To say this is as absurd as saying that anyone who is talented in martial arts or marksmanship is a person who is naturally dangerous and should be kept under the radar because of the threat they possibly pose.

"God protect us from all the Olympian martial arts medalists, target shooters, world champion boxers, shaolin monks, they could easily kill anyone, they are potential dangerous criminals and a threat to society"... Do I have to explain why this reasoning is absurd?

The funny thing about this is that most of the real criminals, serial killers and terrorists are not even trained in hand-to-hand combat or in the proper use of firearms, much less are they the most talented people in those disciplines.

To say that a person who is skilled in combat or shooting is more likely to commit a crime and/or kill someone is extremely stupid, pardon the use of that word, but there is no historical or psychological basis for such an assumption.

It is indeed interesting, but most practitioners of any martial art, or fighting technique, are generally calmer than those who are not.

I will use myself as an example, my brother and I have been black belts in karate since we were 15 years old, and I can say that neither he nor I enjoy or look for fights because it is fun to kick someone's ass.

Actually, this idea totally disgusts me, I never remotely enjoyed the fights that were mandatory for exams every 4 months, nor did I ever enjoy having to beat up my classmates in defense practice, yet, (sorry if I sound pretentious, that is not my intention) I guess my brother and I demonstrated enough skill to get the black belt before some of our other classmates who were older than us.

Why am I saying all this? My intention is to clarify that the fact that a person is skilled in some fighting technique does NOT make him/her naturally ruthless or more prone to be violent than other people.

And the fact is that the ability to fight is part of the survival instinct of all living beings, the ability and willingness to kill someone if the situation forces us, is something that exists in each of us, even animals.

Any person, no matter how small and frail, is no less willing to be violent in self-defense or in defense of someone else than a super soldier (who didn't even ask to be one) who is also fighting for his life or the lives of his friends.

But for some reason, Bucky is the only person not entitled to use light violence (one that is not even lethal force) defensively because he is already considered ruthless and cruel. Where is the reasoning in this?

Bucky is canonically a NON-violent person, someone who has never actually thrown the first punch in a fight, one who waits for the conflict to start so that he has to respond.

This can be seen from the way he defended Steve from the bully in CA:TFA, he first stops him, positions himself in the middle of him and the victim (Steve) as a shield, waits for the aggressor to attack him, blocks his blow and it is up to that point that he responds the aggression, using the minimum amount of force to push the bully away.

The Winter Soldier himself is someone who does not attack first, but responds to violence once he is assaulted and not before, and when he does, it is very usually in order to protect something. This can be clearly seen in his fight against Steve in the Triskelion, he positioned himself in the middle of Steve and the computer, blocking his path so that he does not get to it protecting it. He does NOT launch the first attack, but waits for Steve to initiate the aggression and it is until that moment that he responds to it.

ALSO.

The Winter Soldier is NOT ruthless, this is a word that by definition does not apply to qualify him, because being ruthless implies that the person knows that his actions are ruthless, he knows that his actions harm a third party and he does not care or feel guilty about it.

The Winter Soldier is a non-person, someone with no sense of self, no emotions, he is a zombie with no mind of his own who is literally incapable of doing more than what his handlers command him to do. He can NOT reason the nature of his actions and thus be “ruthless”.

It's like saying that if a robot is ordered to kill someone, since it shows no emotions (because it literally has none), the robot is automatically “ruthless”. Of course not. And the Winter Soldier is virtually that, a mindless, emotionless body that is only programmed to follow orders.

Bucky is also a born protector and not someone who seeks conflict and enjoys fighting. (This is a great meta on the subject.)

Again, this is something T'Challa himself understands and acknowledges, so to say that Wakanda always considered Bucky a danger, and that he needed a permanent leash in case he got out of control is PURE. AWFUL. UNFOUNDED. BULLSHIT.

Even with the change in his personality in TFATWS, which is arguably out of character for him (only explainable due to extensive brain damage and C-PTSD that was never treated but worsened), Bucky literally never had an emotional outburst or showed an action that could have been considered aggressive and actually dangerous to anyone's well-being...

(And the only two times he showed anger was at Zemo! His former abuser, who continues to push his buttons and try to get under his skin by trying to plant self-doubt in his mind! Bucky has every reason to be more than upset with him for all that he wronged him!)

... not even towards Zemo, who he justifiably could have punched, when he held him by the neck and took back his notebook he didn't even apply pressure on his grip, otherwise Zemo would have ended up coughing and struggling to catch his breath.

And as rightly stated before, people forget that Zemo was Bucky's abuser! Bucky himself being the one who was hurt the most by his actions! Because unlike T'Chaka's death which was not Zemo's direct intent, but one of the many lost from the explosion (he had a 50-50 chance of surviving like everyone else). The intent to hunt Bucky down and use him to cause damage was 10000% deliberate! So the Wakandans can't feel any worse about Zemo's prison escape than Bucky himself!

No one talks about how hard it had to be for him to interact with his former abuser and who stripped him of his autonomy by using him to cause harm. To say that Wakanda's bruised pride is more important than the trauma of Bucky having to interact with his former slaver who just kept pushing his buttons is horribly unfair!

Even in the firefight against the mercenaries in Madripoor, he showed frustration at having to be in that situation. “Dam it!” is the first thing he exclamis when the shooting starts, and he immediately covers Sharon and Sam trying to steer the safest path.

Bucky doesn't even shoot to kill those mercenaries, the first one seems to get hit in the arm and not the head, the second one clearly gets shot in the leg and not the head again... And the woman who was still attacking them at the end, he throws a pipe at her that hits her in the shoulder (one of the least life-threatening places) and not in the head or chest... And after that we can see Bucky's expression of shock and mortification for a moment, so much so that Sam has to reach out and drag him behind the door of the container! Where is the innately ruthless man that the writers want to sell us?

As well said before, this vision is totally fanon, NOT canon. The real Bucky we've seen for 13 years is literally the opposite of a ruthless killer.

Bucky is someone who despite understanding that it is not his fault what he was forced to do under mind control, that does not make him feel less responsible and that is why he wants to make amends for sins that are not his. A person as kind-hearted as he is cannot be recognized as such for that, and at the same time be labeled as ruthless. *For a ruthless person feels no remorse.*

No other mind control victim has shown such deep guilt and a desire to make amends to the people who were affected by their actions, as Bucky, and yet none of them have been considered “ruthless” or “naturally violent” for that.

Now about Ayo and the Wakandans:

"... they still choose to help him out of the goodness of their hearts.."

Sorry to burst the bubble @marvelandimagine but this is NOT so, T'Challa did NOT offer his assistance to Bucky just because of how magnanimous he is and because in saw in him a poor helpless man that no one else wanted to offer help to. T'Challa did it in the form of thanks for helping him find the real cause of his father's death, and also in the form of an apology for spending 90% of his time trying to kill him without first making sure to prove his guilt. (And to be honest, this assistance was something he *did* owe Bucky.)

The canonical comic Avengers Infinity War Predule literally states as much.

So while Bucky is grateful for the assistance Wakanda offered him, he does NOT owe them lifelong loyalty nor is he limited to only doing what feels right to them and did not represent a damage to their pride, because that is a stance worthy of a bully.

(But if the DM claim to have jurisdiction wherever they are… errr... does that mean that if they break into someone's house, they have jurisdiction and can do whatever they want simply because they are technically there? isn't that a narcissistic and supremacist attitude?)

"... she feels betrayed by Bucky because Wakanda helped him and now he’s doing something that’s hurting her country..."

"Hurt her country"? How is Zemo's temporary freedom (from a prison that wasn't even secure enough to prevent him from technically breaking free on his own with a plan relatively easy) supposed to put a nation as advanced as Wakanda at any kind of risk? Besides the damage to their pride, which seems to be the worst sin according to Ayo.

It is ironic, or rather hypocritical, that Wakandans see Zemo's temporary freedom as a “danger” to their country, when the DM themselves and the entire Wakandan council allowed Killmonger, one of the most ruthless criminals, who literally hired Klaue to steal Vibranium, and who actually exposed Wakanda to real danger, to be king. Just because he fulfilled the tradition of defeating T'Challa in combat. (Does it mean that a potential and real danger to Wakanda is allowed, as long as it technically fulfilled the traditions? Which means that respecting traditions is more important than actually protecting Wakanda? Isn't there a certain cynicism and lack of logic in this?)

But back to Zemo, once again. his temporary freedom did NOT expose Wakanda to any kind of danger, because there was not a single thing he could do to harm them.

And not only this, Bucky always had every intention of returning him to prison once his help was no longer needed, this is something Bucky talked to Ayo about and it's something she understood! That's why she gave an ultimatum of 8 hours before returning, something Bucky never objected to. So to say that Ayo dismembered and dehumanized Bucky because she felt “betrayed” is totally false.

And speaking of betrayal, let's look at what this word means and why I believe Bucky's assistance in Zemo's escape from prison doesn't fall into this category:

According to the dictionary, “betray” has two main definitions:

1. To not be loyal to your country or a person, often by doing something harmful such as helping their enemies.

Bucky is NOT an agent or guard of Wakanda who owes them absolute loyalty. Zemo's temporary freedom did not expose Wakanda to any kind of danger, because there was literally not a single thing he could do to harm them. Bucky was NOT helping or benefiting Zemo, but using him as a means to a greater good. So this definition doesn't apply in the remotest of ways. And again, Zemo is also an enemy of Bucky himself.

2. If someone betrays something such as a promise, they do not do what they promised.

Bucky was not assigned the task of guarding Zemo and making sure he never escapes from prison. He never promised or committed to that task because it is not his responsibility. So this definition does not apply either.

In conclusion: Bucky did NOT betray Wakanda by any definition. Because once again, Zemo's temporary freedom did NOT expose Wakanda to any kind of harm NOR danger.

(I wrote a short post on why, according to the nonsensical script, Zemo's help was necessary. The canonical book The Art of The Falcon and the Winter Soldier says so, so it makes it clear that Bucky did the right thing by calling on his assistance.)

"...And then that time limit runs up, and he chooses to get in her way..."

Like... this was literally NOT the case. The DM showed up claiming custody of Zemo, Bucky literally never objected. The only ones who objected were John, Lemar and Sam. Bucky didn't intervene in the beating Ayo was giving John, *until* she was literally going to kill him by impaling him with her spear, a death that had nothing to do with her mission to capture Zemo, and ultimately it was because she was distracted by using Walker as a punching bag that Zemo had was able to escape.

Ayo got upset because Bucky stopped her from killing a guy whose death adds nothing. She started attacking him violently. Bucky tried to talk to her and simply defended himself using non-violent methods and it was in a fit of anger that Ayo made her low move and disconnected his arm.

Now it turns out that it was Bucky who was being aggressive and that's why Ayo was outraged and removed his arm??? This is a bullshit lie!

As correctly stated before, it is justified for Wakanda to have put a kill-safe on the prosthetic aid they gave Bucky WITHOUT any condition (knowing full well that ignorance of this mechanism puts Bucky's life at risk), because they wanted to have insurance in case, as one member of the production of the TV series said, "the situation arose", they could simply deactivate it... But they have no problem making a full Vibranium suit for a stranger who was one of those who opposed Zemo's arrest?

Let's pay attention to the words the production member used, “should the situation arise”. This goes beyond the idea that Bucky might “pose a threat to them”, this implies that that “insurance” is there for any time Bucky does something they don't like! And in fact that's what Ayo did, she disconnected his arm simply because she was upset that he stopped her from killing Walker... isn't that extremely low of her?

Now I wonder, Wakanda agreed to make a full Vibranium suit for Sam, someone who truly objected to the DM taking Zemo, and who called Bucky to intervene. It's only fair that they also put a fail-safe in Sam's suit to neutralize him in case he ever poses a threat to Wakanda, or in case he becomes mind controlled, right?

It's almost funny, but in the latest cut of CA:BNW, you can see the wings of Sam's suit have the same shock absorbing ability as Black Panther's suit, an ability that Bucky's arm does NOT have.

This is on purpose on the part of the production right? Now it turns out that Wakanda trusts Sam enough, a stranger they have vaguely interacted with, to include in his suit an ability that is special to BP's own suit??

Hypocrisy at its finest.... 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️

I think some people mad about the arm is not necessarily about the fact that Ayo disabling the arm itself, it's more of the fact that it was not necessary and the fact that Bucky had no idea they can do that. If I were to be honest, I think it was not that necessary because Ayo is well capable of taking him down without having to disarm him and she is definitely not threatened by him. I think what some people find upsetting about that scene is the fact that it kinda comes off as Ayo putting Bucky in a position where it would make him feel like he doesn't have full control of his own body after all. The Wakandans, especially Ayo, T'Challa and Shuri had every right to feel betrayed and upset but the point is they should have told Bucky about how the arm can easily be disabled like that, they didn't know Bucky was going to set Zemo free when they gave him the arm and regardless of the things they have done for him and if they were ones who gave him the arm, they should have at least told him about it, because it's connected to him, it's a part of HIS body. It doesn't matter if it was necessary to disarm him or not, the point is they should have told him about it because apart from the fact that it's his body and that it was a bit insensitive given his history, it's also a point of vulnerability, and the fact that she did it in front of Walker (and possibly Zemo) --- people who can easily turn on Bucky, could easily that to their advantage and attempt to disable it themselves. Just my thoughts on it.

Thank you for sharing your perspective, anon!

I’m going to use this long-ass reply to address this stuff with Ayo and also voice some thoughts I’ve had over the past few weeks seeing people paint Bucky into being this complete soft and harmless human that needs 25-7 protection which I don’t jive with — and this is me, a complete Bucky stan.

Many moons ago, I saw a post that compared 1940s Bucky moving with stealth and a loaded gun on the train to the Winter Soldier doing the same thing, essentially discussing the similarities and debating how much of non-brainwashed Bucky was in the Soldier. And I think the fandom forgets or chooses to neglect the following when painting him as this fragile, peace-loving guy:

Bucky was an incredibly skilled sniper in the United States Army. His job is to eliminate threats in the most efficient way possible, and he’s good at it. HYDRA gets their hands on him and + the serum, this gets magnified. It wasn’t like HYDRA turned him into someone with the ability and mental capacity to kill — that was already there. The brainwashing and torture just carved out the rest of him to leave those honed skills and an amplified ruthlessness with no moral issues, no sense of self to contend with. That ruthlessness is part of Bucky, whether people like it or not.

When Bucky is outside of HYDRA for the first time and hiding in Civil War and gets attacked, he’s so brutal in his actions that Steve Rogers, the man who literally was ready to die to save Bucky and free him when no one else believed in the good in him, intervenes because “Buck, you’re going to kill someone.” Bucky responds that he’s not going to kill anyone, but the fact remains: with or without HYDRA control, Bucky has a strong capacity for violence that hovers on brutality — again, what’s the most efficient way to eliminate or neutralize a threat? Like, I don’t want to kill you, but I’ll knock your ass out with cinder blocks to the chest.

Bucky has a good heart, he’s loyal, he’s smart, he’s caring, he’s the longest-standing POW in history and was turned into a slave for decades, put through unimaginable trauma and torture and horror with no escape. Bucky is also a strong and incredibly skilled super soldier who has a bionic arm, is a trained sniper, is unnervingly precise with knives, and self-describes himself as “semi-stable.” Zemo notes in the bar that “it didn’t take Bucky long to get back into form,” and he’s right because the ruthlessness and skill of the Winter Soldier is a part of him and always has been. We see it when he has his hand around Zemo’s neck and tells him he will kill him, when he rips the glass from his hand and throws it across the room.

And I’m sure the Wakandans know all this about Bucky, this light and his ability for hard-to-stop violence, whether from talking to Steve and Bucky or doing their own homework. And they still choose to help him out of the goodness of their hearts because he’s been put through hell and they believe they have the capacity to help him and it’s the right thing to do — they’re betting more on those positive attributes. And they put a failsafe on his arm, a literal weapon, and chose not to tell him. You know why I think that shows how much they did care about him? Because they could’ve blatantly come out and said “Hey, we don’t trust you,” and hurt him outright, but they didn’t because they’re betting on the light in Bucky to outweigh the dark or any future manipulation. That it’s a worst-case scenario function they hope to never have to use — so they’re prepared if shit hits the fan, and if it doesn’t, Bucky doesn’t have to be hurt feeling like he can’t be trusted. I see no issues here, they’re just being cautious.

Now coming to Ayo, my QUEEN Ayo. From that beautiful, beautiful opening scene, we get to see her support, her reassurance, her belief that Bucky will be able to work through this, even when he doesn’t believe it himself. She watches him fight and struggle and cry, and you can feel the hope in her and how moved she is when she gets to tell him it worked, he did it — he’s free. And she says it not once, but twice. And you can hear not just the comfort, but the PRIDE and warmth in her voice directed to him, who I’m sure she’s watched throughout the whole deprogramming process and gotten to know and is happy to see him work through the pain and come out on the other side.

And then she sees that same individual make a decision in freeing Zemo that she perceives as a “fuck you” not just to her country, but to her, someone who was charged with protecting her king. She could’ve just disarmed Bucky the second they met up, but she doesn’t. She takes the time to explain her side and her feelings, her guilt and her shame, and basically implies that she feels betrayed by Bucky because Wakanda helped him and now he’s doing something that’s hurting her country. And still, she doesn’t attack or just go get Zemo. She gives Bucky the benefit of the doubt and a whole 8-hour American workday to do what he has to do because again, she believes in the best of him. And then that time limit runs up, and he chooses to get in her way.

And that’s the final straw. She’s angry, she’s guilty, she’s frustrated, and she feels betrayed hurt by someone I think she did respect and care about, someone whom she worked with and helped and supported when he was his most vulnerable. Did she “need” to disarm the arm to fight Bucky? Probably not. But is she doing it in the heat of battle and adrenaline and a whole bucket ton of emotions, including what she sees as the White Wolf blatantly disrespecting her country and her as a person and even friend and she just says fuck it, I’m done? You hurt us and me, and I’m going to hurt you back? Oh yeah. And Bucky looks shocked, not because he’s a poor fragile baby and “oh no, my arm, how could you?? my TrAumA”, but in the dual realization of “oh shit, how’d you do that?!” and “oh shit, I think I crossed a line here.” And also, I don’t think a single person in that room would be able to recreate the disabling sequence other than Ayo — it’s way too targeted and specific for someone like Walker to pick it up in the whole three seconds it took.

People need to stop reducing characters to these black and white extremes of soft and hard, of good and bad. Doing so completely devalues and ignores the REALITY of the complexity of being human, and Bucky and Ayo are both great examples of that played by stellar actors who portray that range and depth extremely well. End of the day, my thought is that the failsafe in the arm was justified and people need to stop coming for Ayo based on this ridiculous narrative that Bucky is too traumatized and sensitive and too much of a fave to ever be challenged or he’ll explode into dust. Boy deserves a life of freedom and healing and mental health support, but he’s also still a formidable opponent with the capacity for violence and skillset to kill. People are more than one thing.

Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk!!

#to say that the Wakandans had the right to remove Bucky's disability aid against his will #is as horrible and unfair as saying that any prosthetic manufacturer #has the right to remove a prosthetic from their patients because “what if they at some point use your prosthetic to attack you?#It's justified to put a potentially deadly fail-safe for them behind their back isn't it?“#he way Ayo dismembered and dehumanized Bucky is no less horrible #to the way Thanos dismembered and tortured Nebula #but this scene was made to horrify us and make us feel terrible for her #but with Bucky we should blame him for that??#the double standards are unbelievable...#and to say that Bucky is obligated to do only what is not against Wakanda's interests #because they helped him get rid of the Winter Soldier's programming (assistance that was offered to him in the form of thanks and apologies #is tantamount to saying that all people whose lives were saved in a hospital #are obligated to do only what the hospital sees fit #this is sooo wrong in more ways than one #the only ones who actually said ‘fuck you we lied to you all this time and we don't care about your safety’ were the Wakandans #and their actions do fall into the category of the word ‘betray’ against Bucky.#bucky barnes #james bucky barnes #mcu bucky barnes #bucky is a victim not a villian #tfatws critisism #anti ableism

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