#and about the sagas that don't let them do anything with their characters

[zuko-always-lies]

You post a lot criticising Zuko. Do you like Zuko or not?

(genuine q)

Well, let me break that down a bit:

Do I think we should have sympathy for Zuko?

I think as a 16 year old abuse victim he deserves a lot of sympathy and should get support.

Would I enjoy being around him?

No, I think the Zuko we see is a deeply unpleasant person and I doubt I would enjoy it if I were around him. However, I suspect I would also find Azula, Mai, Ty Lee, and Toph quite unpleasant to be around too, so that's hardly unique to Zuko.

Do I think Zuko is an interesting character?

I think Book 1 Zuko is actually quite interesting and in his own way quite likeable, even if he's a terrible person. Book 1 is where Zuko's writing peaks for me.

Beyond that, I honestly think Zuko becomes much more boring. The writers started leaning entirely on having viewers closely emotionally identify with Zuko and feel personal emotional catharsis when he "achieves redemption." If you don't, Zuko becomes much more boring and the flaws in his writing become much more apparent.

I also think Zuko isn't a particularly interesting or unique character in general. Azula, Ty Lee, and even Mai all manage to be way more interesting and unique than Zuko, despite getting vastly less character development time. At their core, Zuko's arc and themes amount to rejecting an abusive father in favor of a better surrogate father, which feels pretty standard to be honest. By contrast, I can think of only one character the least like Azula in any Western media, Miles Vorkosigan from the Vorkosigan Saga.

Honestly, the most interesting thing about Zuko is analyzing the difference between how the narrative frames him verses what his actions actually suggest about who he really is. That's probably why I write so many "Zuko critical" posts, because I find analyzing the difference interesting.

Do I think Zuko's arc was well-written?

No. The writers were very good at tugging at the heartstrings but beyond that I think "Zuko's redemption arc" is not nearly as good as people make it out to be. In particular, the way that the narrative after Book 1 stops holding him accountable for anything he does weakens his arc badly. That, along with making Iroh the center of Zuko's arc at all costs, made things drastically worse than the original writing plans for Zuko.

Do I think Zuko is the morally pure perfect Firelord the narrative tries to sell him as?

The finale tries to present him that way, but it falls flat for me. Zuko is a very badly flawed person who never addressed most of his flaws, and he's not the least bit suited to be Firelord. The narrative needs him to be the perfect, rightful prince who will redeem the Fire Nation from darkness, and if Zuko had been written differently and his arc had been taken in a different direction, he could be that, but he's not. I could never buy the person we see at the end of the show being a good ruler, and I could never buy him being happy as a ruler.

Could Zuko be an interesting character?

Hell yes. If the narrative had been less prone to gloss over Zuko's many flaws, and more inclined to force him to address them and deal with the consequences of his actions, he could be very interesting. Even if the narrative was willing to seriously acknowledge Zuko's flaws without having him ever improve on them, things would be more interesting. The Zuko-Azula relationship is actually super-interesting if you think deeply about it, but you need to ignore everything about how the narrative frames them for it to be interesting. "Good boy tormented by evil demon psycho younger sister" is boring as hell.

[deadnytalks]

I just discovered somenthing very VERY VERY UNDERRATED about art bassed on already existing characters from a franchise (fan proyects). But underrated on a unsuspected level

I will put you an example, look at this reefsheets of Whisper from Sonic the hedgehog

ALL THE WORK IS DONE, EVERYTHING YOU NEED FOR MAKE A FANART OR SOMENTHING ALREADY HAS A FUNCIONAL REFERENCE THAT YOU CAN PERFECTLY USE. DO YOU KNOW HOW HARD IS TO INVESTIGATE A CHARACTER FOR MAKE ALL OF THIS REFERENCES AAAAAAHHH!!

For make your own content, your own WORKING FRANCHISE you would have to start FROM CERO. You can perfecly take 30 years for make somenthing profesional enought by your own or somenthing that works!! (30 years including ALL the art learnings you have to use. Psicology included)

We don't appreciate enough that there are sagas that give fans so much freedom to do whatever they want with their copyrighted work, because they can perfectly take down all the fan works at any time for legal reasons, but they choose to not.

(also, important note, don´t interpret this as if I´m defending abuse, empresaurs or companies buying others and then closing them or something like that. This post is not about defending the multimillonare company, is about you to apreciate what you have on a very underrated media as is the art. A kind of "inspiration" for you to not be lazy when the only thing you have to do for make a fan proyect is to take references and adapt it to your style, only the 10% of the work comparing it on making somenthing original. If at the end of the day you are ofended by this post, then the message is not for you, sorry 🙏

[raayllum]

She Must Pay the Price, or A Drop of Mercy :: A Rayla and Leola Meta

Quick:

You're a young elven girl, and you show mercy and compassion to a human that you definitely weren't supposed to. When it's found out, you're punished, with elves even calling for your execution (6x09, book 1 novelization). Your father does what he can, but there's only so much. You're put on trial. You're found guilty regardless of intent, and only by association. You die for this; you die for them. You're a star. A guiding light. There's even a Great Fall off a precipice (though only one of you hits the ground).

Your name is Leola, or Rayla.

You're the beginning and the end, respectively.

So let's talk about it.

Tests of Love

For years, I had wondered where Aaravos' assessment of "Those who fail tests of love are simple animals. They deserve to be motivated by fear" (2x09) came from, cause you don't drop in a line like that if it's not going somewhere. It's quite a statement and worldview, after all. Now, with Leola's trial, it seems we know.

We can see, then, perhaps that Leola's gift giving was the first test of love — are you willing to break the Natural Law, the Natural Order of things? — to help another? To show another a source of power in order to share, to be compassionate, and in Rayla's case, to be merciful (though we'll get more to that in a minute).

We also know that the love Leola had was powerful and all encompassing:

She didn't care to follow the order set in the stars. Though she was born an immortal being from the Heavens, she loved this world... and all its flaws. Her heart was warm and open.

And she befriended mortals. Animals, elves... and humans.

ETHARI: Who I love, where I love, what I love, are all specific. But to Runaan and those like your parents... love is rooted in all families, all creatures. Souls like that feel called to protect everyone as fiercely as those they hold close. (Bloodmoon Huntress)

Okay, so Leola and Rayla both have big compassionate hearts and befriend creatures from all over the place. So what? So do Callum, Ezran, Soren, and most of our other main good guy characters. Even Claudia to a degree (though she could work on not using magical creatures for spell parts).

Well, specifically, it's because of how they intersect currently more with anyone else on the concept of

Mercy

KOSMO: Daughter of the Moon, yours is a wondrous heart. In a moment of mercy, you sent ripples out into the ocean of time. Ripples that have not yet stilled. (6x05)

Rayla sparing Marcos, as noted in multiple interviews by the creators and by myself in previous metas, is ultimately the inciting incident / lynchpin of the entire series. Without it, there would've been no soulfang proposal or Ez running away to find the egg or any of the number of other elements that had to come together to make achieving peace possible.

While we still have details to discover regarding Aaravos' Fall and development of dark magic, we know that a lack of mercy was ultimately what sent him on his path of vengeance. Leola was not shown mercy, and while it seems there were already "flaws" for an imperfect world, things were (probably) better than they currently are in Xadia in a variety of ways. Then, to kick off the entire Saga, we have Rayla sparing Marcos in a soundtrack literally titled "Mercy" and have Kosmo, seasons and seasons later, spell out directly what a big deal this was for well, the ocean of time.

None of this is to say Rayla can't act out of revenge — she did ("when I first came here, I was on a mission for revenge") and she has ("but I became so obsessed with revenge"), much like Aaravos ("he isn't doing anything out of love, he's doing it for revenge") — but that her general compassion and love for others has always been stronger than her grief or rage, and that even when she had every social and personal reason to, she was and is fundamentally unable to hurt someone innocent.

Even when she's shamed or punished for it by herself or by others. RAYLA: The human looked up at me, and I saw the fear in his eyes. RUNAAN: Of course he was afraid, but you a job to do! (1x01)

EZRAN: Yeah, but then you saw he was scared, and you knew he was a person, just like you. RAYLA: That shouldn't have mattered. I had a job to do. (1x08)

The Cosmic Council — and to a degree, the Silvergrove — say that the reasonings or motivations, the intentions, behind Leola and Rayla's actions do not and should not matter when it comes out to doling 'Justice'. So Leola faces her justice, being literally killed in the one manner that can kill a Startouch elf, and so does Rayla, being metaphorically Ghosted / 'murdered' by her community, regardless.

Neither are enough to ultimately quell their light or their love/power, however.

A Star

RAYLA: That beautiful shining star you just pointed out? We call it Leola's Last Wish. (5x02)

So both Leola and Rayla are stars in season 6, literally and metaphorically respectively. Leola's is more self-explanatory, whereas Rayla's is mostly about the role she has in Callum's life as a guiding light and star. I don't think it's a coincidence, though, that just as Rayla placed Callum on his path of being a primal mage, though, that Leola did the same for humanity. I also don't think it's a coincidence that Callum's love for Rayla restores Callum's own light and agency amid Leola giving humanity the same through light and fire.

It happened long ago, when humans had only just learned to hold fire in their hands without burning. They nurtured their precious primal flames secretly—in the dark of night, beneath shadows and shrouds—as cultivating its glow drew the eyes and ire of monsters. Eventually, for the audacity of their fire, they were hunted, and—though they looked to the stars for salvation—the stars, too, looked down upon them with disdain. Humanity had been given something it was never meant to have. (TDP shorts, Ripples)

In this way, we see the manifestation of a repeating parallel of Rayla representing Leola, a gift giver of life, magic, light, unjustly punished/killed, and Callum representing humanity, looking to the kindest brightest star for guidance, magic, restoration, and salvation if he's just given the chance to grasp it. After all, presumably, Leola's last wish would have something to do with primal magic and humanity, and who represents that better than Callum, with two arcana under his belt and possibly more on the way? With that in mind, I want to return to another quote from earlier but with a different focus on

Ripples

Daughter of the Moon, yours is a wondrous heart. In a moment of mercy, you sent ripples out into the ocean of time. Ripples that have not yet stilled.

The wisest of the humans looked upon the water. His own reflection smiled back at him, and he dared to imagine what such power would feel like in his own hands, should he be allowed to hold it. Imagine, he thought, if I were more than what I am. With a trembling hand he touched the surface of the water. Ripples spread from his fingertips. [...] I hope the stars were watching. I hope they saw it: the moment their perfect reflections turned warped and ruined, churned to chaos by the touch of a single human hand. In this, the humans taught me another lesson. And so I touch the surface of the water. I watch the ripples spread.

Water in TDP is a strange beast, symbolically speaking. There are some more straight forward motifs (reflections, "don't try to control where the river [of life] goes, there's one thing you can know and control: yourself"). For Aaravos, it's connected to deep loss but also his own sense of patience in playing and winning his game, as illustrated above. For Rayla, it's linked to shame, self-reflection, bravery, and loss. Aaravos weeps and creates a sea upon losing Leola; Rayla says goodbye to her family by the lotus pond times three.

We don't know what water represents for Leola. Not distinctly, anyway. The best we can figure though, is that by following the through line of the Rayla and Leola parallels, that the ripples Leola wanted to send out or did send out — not the distortions caused by her father and his grief — are ones that Rayla received, and then continued.

Rayla has always been a foil to Aaravos, and this hasn't changed. She is the one who set Callum on the path initially of being a mage, which put him in Aaravos' machinations as prey; she retrieved his Key; and she's the reason Callum's done dark magic, twice. At the same time, much like the moon, Rayla carries Leola's light as much as she shoulders Aaravos' dark. She literally represents light in Callum's life, helps lead him through the darkness, and him being a primal mage and it's possible growth to other humans is the best possible thing that could've ever happened to Xadia.

Sol Regem says that "no one can save" Xadia or fix what is deeply broken. The Cosmic Council said that Leola had broken the Cosmic order and had to pay the price. Rayla has repeatedly been willing to pay the price for both hers and other's actions in hopes of making things right, of sparing others' pain. Sometimes to her detriment, but—if Rayla as Callum's one Truth could fix the darkness within him, if she's the lynchpin for breaking the Cycle, for bringing back Runaan and fixing her family's souls, in opposing and presenting mercy amid the Council's lack of mercy, in the face of Xadia's violence—

Then Rayla's act of mercy in 1x01, and potentially beyond in S7 with Callum, will be what fixes Xadia.

Leola's gift of magic is what 'broke' Xadia, and her execution is what literally did so, leading to the division of the continent. She wrongly paid the price in the absence of mercy and love. Rayla is therefore her thematic successor — welcomed this time as Light and Truth — as the carrier of Mercy and Love, and she will 'fix' Xadia through her ripples and dynamics. She will mend them back together. There will, at last, be no price to pay.

Misc. Thoughts / Predictions

One thing I was always curious about going forward into future seasons was the prospect of a 'trial' or reunification of the Silvergrove. It felt like a no-brainer the Silvergrove would have to change in order to reflect Runaan's character arc, much the way we see Katolis and the Sunfire elves change to better accommodate the new, more compassionate world order. Pre-S4 a trial felt a little strange as an idea, though post-S4 the parallels it could provide to the Lucia tribunal made more sense about why include either (or both).

However, Leola's trial seemed to hammer home the almost necessity (as this is still a prediction, after all, that may not happen) of Rayla and/or Runaan saying their peace to the Silvergrove leaders. This would be a great opportunity to provide a contrast to the Cosmic Council, reaffirming that Xadia is ultimately better than them because the Moonshadow elves and everyone else can change, and the Cosmic Council seemingly cannot or will not. But I guess we'll have to wait for S7 or beyond (#GiveUsTheSaga) to find out if this'll come to fruition or not.

I also wanted to touch on what we see with Leola ("I'm so scared!") and the repeated emphasis on "recognizing fear as a moment of empathy and personhood" and the horror that can come if you don't have that moment of recognition. This is something I've touched on before most notably as a striking difference between S1 Rayla and S5 Claudia, but I thought it was worth mentioning as S6 added to it specifically with Viren towards Soren and Lissa. This is another point in the "Rayla is an inversion of the Council's lack of mercy" column, as Leola's — a child's fear, and Aaravos willing to pay the price and take her place — earns her no mercy. Rayla, meanwhile, sees someone innocent that she has 'every right' to execute is afraid of her, and that strays her hand; it steadies her sword, and she spares him. Because if someone is afraid of you, it's worth asking yourself why, and what you might want to do instead.

Last but not least I wanted to talk about Leola's parallels to Callum and Ezran as well, since they are very much there (though yet not perhaps to the same extent).

Ezran has Leola's friendliness to animals and soft heart. He too is a child whose death is called for as a means of Justice, and he is granted mercy through Rayla and the discovery of the egg, able to live and grow and help usher in peace. He is, I think, what Leola might've been allowed to be if she'd lived in different times. Callum, meanwhile, carries the gift giving motif through his cube, staff, and tokens he both gives to (moon-phoenix bracelet) and receives (the moon opal necklace) from Rayla, and previous 'human-Leola' magic dynamic. Callum being able to break free fully from Aaravos' and dark magic's control in S7 and turn his eye instead to primal magic will be what helps bring true justice to Leola and hope for humanity / Xadia in righting the Cosmic Council's fundamental wrongdoing. Hopefully, anyway.

Conclusion

I hope you enjoyed this deep dive into some parallels and potential narrative goings-on between Leola and Rayla as characters. TDP loves its historical and ironic layers in TDP (Ez and the Orphan Queen, Viren's arc from S1 to S6) and I think this layered thematic dynamic between the two merciful young girls was a good, brilliant choice by the creative team. I'm excited to see where this thematic thread goes in the future and how it may continue to be woven into the story. As always, thank you for reading, and I'll see you in the next one.

[geese-in-a-frock-coat]

What's your evidence for Watts and Murdoch being autistic? (I totally agree btw)

Hello, internet stranger. Buckle up cause I've thought too hard about this.

Ok disclaimer I have not really sat down and watched the whole thing for a hot minute. Its past nine, you're just gonna have to trust me this one.

Credentials: Mega autisitc

Murdoch:

Does not understand social conventions. Like this ones pretty obvious. He doesn't understand why people keep dogs. Raises his kid in a completely non traditional way. Frequently doesn't get why people care about something that he sees as not being worth it (sports and popular trends and so forth).

Doesn't like small talk

Cares about justice NOT the law. The thing that really makes me think he's autistic is that he cares about things being just and is prepared to break the rules to do so. The main example being he lets that woman out of prison depsite the fact that he could go down for it. He turns a blind eye to Watts and lets Giles go even though they're both criminals in the eyes of the law. And on the flipside he sends George to prison because I think that's what he percieves as justice (if anyone's seen the bridge this really reminds me of Saga at the end of season 2)

Sees through hierarchy. There are so many epsiodes that play out like "I think Mr X is the killer." "But Mr x is extrememly important and influential!" "I don't care he killed her."

Interest in science and inventing. Look I know we joke about stereotypes but like, its a stereotype for a reason. He builds things with an autistic brain. He uses pattern repition through learning about previous inventions and applying them to his own devices.

Visual learner. This is not autism exclusive but he solves cases in such a unique way that it screams ND to me. Murdoch often literally builds a case. They make a joke about clue/cludo but he literally has to make the model of a house to picture where everyone is. He makes all those model of the ladies that were covered in metal. And let us not forget his famous chalk board.

Buzzkill. I say this as a long-term sufferer of leaves parties at 8:45 syndrome. He does 'boring hobbies' which autistic people often have because we don't feel the need to take up traditional ones.

Remember that scene where he attempts to read out his and Julia's book and just absolutely cannot tell that no one gives a single toss about anything he's saying.

Wears the same thing for nearly 20 years. If it ain't broke don't fix it.

Refused to let his wife cut his hair because he didn't want to change from the lady who used to do it.

breather. Part 2: watts.

Cannot read social cues: Frequently insults other station house four people. Pretty sure he called someone's baby ugly but I might have hallucinated that. "You're face is symetrical." Got chucked out of station house because he didn't get on with any of them

Disregard for societal norms: doesn't feel the need to be polite or tactful with anyone or to really follow police protocol. Acts very 'improper' a lot of the time. Only got one shoe shined that one time because that was all he needed. Puts his feet on the sofa, lies on the desk and leans over tables.

Makes limited eye contact.

The man will fidget with anything: Look this is clearly a character decision from Daniel Maslany but its an autistic character decision if ever I saw one. We're talking pencils, cups, fabric, anything. If it is on the set, he will find a way to play with out. And I don't normally like to assign autistic traits onto behaviour implemented by actors but it's basically stimming at this point. I dare you to keep an eye on this man's hands for any scene and I garuntee you they will not stay still.

Disorganised, but not: He always has tiny bits of paper and whatnot in his pockets but always seems to know where everything is. organised but doesn't have to time to be tidy. Same whenever we see his flat, it's equally disorganised. as an autistic person I find things end up all over the place because I don't have the capacity to keep them in order.

Bad handwriting and can't spell

Physicality: Most autistic people will have some sort of problem with co-ordination. He walks uneavenly. He has an odd posture. I always think about that scene where he steps in sick and moves around like a dear on ice. He's clumsy, can't sit straight and has a strange posture.

can't think when being interrupted

can't focus on two things at once.

George realised he'd been possessed by aliens because he was acting normally.

pretzels: dare i say safe food. If not, they're bland, usually the same everytime and take little mental effort to consume.

Strong sense of justic: see william murdoch.

SPECIAL MENTIONS:

Dr Emily Grace: didn't become a doctor becuase she didn't want to adopt a 'cheerful bedside manor.'

Dr Julia Ogden: Married to Murdoch (like calls to like) and sees through the bullshit of victorian society.

Susannah Murdoch: has those two as parents and I have the full confidence of genetics on this one.

In conclusion:

There's probably so much more I could talk about that I just don't remember because there is a lot more of this show than most others. But anyway. Murdoch is autistic because he has to be for the show to work and becuase he often comedic-foils far too close to the sun. And Watts is autistic because there is no way on God's green earth a man who stands like that is neurotypical.

Thank you, internet stranger, I am here all week.

[tobiasdrake]

FUN FACT: Did you know that Chi-Chi got off Gohan's back about studying for the three years of the Android and Cell Saga?

A key thing to understand about Goku and Chi-Chi's relationship is that they don't have a traditional marriage. The anime went to great lengths to try and heteronormalize them as a typical couple who are together because they're madly in love.

But they're not. Goku is very much an aroace character. Like. He's not sex-repulsed, obviously; Gohan and Goten's existence proves that much. But romance and sexuality don't mean anything to him. They're not factors he considers when he's making his life choices. He's not interested in pursuing them in any meaningful way.

Goku and Chi-Chi's marriage is largely contractual. It exists because these two backwoods hicks made a deal when Goku was a child, that he didn't even know the context of what he was agreeing to.

Goku then left and never saw her again for six years. He had absolutely no idea what they were talking about.

Fortunately for Goku, Yamcha was nearby to explain in Goku Terminology what it means to be married.

And that was that. Goku agreed to the terms of living in the same space as Chi-Chi, and their domestic life began from there.

Goku and Chi-Chi's relationship is, effectively, a pantomime of domestic life. They're two adultchildren playing house, moreso than a loving married couple. They had literally spent one day together before they wed; They had no idea who the other even is as a person when they started down this road.

Naturally, this resulted in a lot of friction when Gohan entered the picture. It'd have to, right?

This contractual marriage born of childish stupidity has not gone well.

Still, despite everything, Goku and Chi-Chi managed to reach an... interesting compromise in the Android arc... after a bit of really gross slapstick violence that has not aged well.

Yikes, Toriyama.

Nonetheless, Goku gets his way but only with conditions. Chi-Chi backs off on Gohan's studies and lets him train in martial arts for the next three years. But after that, it's done. Gohan will leave martial arts and become a scholar.

Once the agreement is forged, Chi-Chi's entire behavior changes. She becomes downright supportive of them.

Because they have a deal. She abides by the terms, fully expecting that Goku will abide by it as well.

This is something that the anime aggressively missed the point on. Like. They even rewrote existing scenes from the manga to show Chi-Chi violating the agreement.

Chi-Chi, what the fuck are you doing? You're breaking the deal. You don't do this in the manga. You just chill in the plane.

After things get messy in the Android arc, Goku and Chi-Chi revisit their agreement. Goku wants to add an addendum to their deal. Chi-Chi agrees... with an addendum of her own.

Goku asks to take Gohan into a pocket dimension for an entire year. Chi-Chi grants him that, but adds that after he and Gohan quit martial arts in accordance to the previous agreement, Goku has to get a job.

With that settled, she resumes backing off on Gohan's academics and being fully supportive of their temporary martial arts lifestyle.

Once Cell is defeated, their deal goes into effect. Per the agreement, Gohan quits martial arts and refocuses himself into academia.

Though Goku, at the very last second, manages to cheat on the agreement and prance away like a magnificent poof.

Goku, you cheeky dickwaffle.

[kanansdume]

Okay, so I know that legends and Disney Canon keep making Han and Leia get married and have kids or whatever, but quite honestly it's just the most boring possible choice and clearly just done so they can get themselves a next gen Skywalker Saga, so I'm going to present my alternate future for Leia that doesn't actually contradict anything from Lucas's works.

Firstly, Leia becomes a Jedi. She's just as Force sensitive as Luke is, and would sort-of be the obvious first person for Luke to train. Leia is arguably more suited for being a Jedi than Luke is due to her training in discipline and emotional regulation from a very young age, so she's already sort-of there philosophically in a way Luke maybe was not in ANH or even ESB. Leia I think would have a little bit of an easier time adjusting to that lifestyle because, in some ways, she's already lived it. She's clearly perfectly capable of non-attachment and letting go given the way she handled Alderaan. She's coming into it pretty late, but there's ample evidence to show that Leia's sort-of been acting like a Jedi just without the lightsaber or Force training for most of her life.

Secondly, Leia was a politician, yes, but she was specifically the Princess and Senator for Alderaan, a planet that no longer exists to represent or lead. There are obviously a few Alderaanians still around out there who happened to not be on Alderaan when it blew up, but they're probably more likely to just settle on other planets as refugees and would then end up under someone else's leadership. I don't really see Leia attempting to create a new Alderaan that she can then represent in the New Republic. While it's possible she could end up more of a consultant or an aide of sorts, I'm putting forth that Leia would end up a political representative for the new Jedi Order. Luke has to go out and find more students, which means he doesn't really have time to be sitting in the Senate hashing out what the relationship is between the New Republic and the new Order. He's also just not really suited to that kind of work to begin with. But Leia could. Lack of representation in the Republic Senate is something that maybe could've been useful for the Prequel Jedi, and it would've be interesting to see the new Jedi Order have more of a political presence in the New Republic and I think it should've been Leia.

Thirdly, Leia never gets married to Han or has children. She's still in a RELATIONSHIP with Han, sure, she loves him and all, but Han is by nature something of a wandering soul and neither of them necessarily feels the need to make that sort of commitment in order to know how the other person feels about them. And neither of them really wants or needs biological children of their own. Han has the Falcon, and Leia will have the other Jedi. They're both still in love and the relationship is serious (it can even be exclusive if you want it to be), they just don't get married or have kids and this allows them each to explore their own paths without the obligations that come with things like marriage and kids. Leia never mentions anything in the OT about really desiring either of those things, so it's perfectly in character to just have her... never do either one in favor of focusing on helping Luke rebuild the Jedi and integrate the Order with the New Republic to help fortify and strengthen both groups.

Leia should be a Jedi and the only reason people keep refusing to do so is because they can't conceive of a more interesting future for her than marriage and kids and I find that really sad.

[aitadjcrazytimes]

It's been a good run

But it's time to bring this to a close!

The saga is over, C, T and I are all together. T and I are in the swing of it, C approves as much as it is possible for him to approve of anything, everyone knows about the blog and is chill.

C is back at his rightful place of walking his sister down the aisle.

I'm getting everything I want, and we're all free to make each other miserable until the day we die.

I'm not going to be updating this blog anymore! Nobody else involved with the situation will be submitting any more AITA posts either, because they are either not on tumblr or agreed it would be annoying.

I will say that there is some stuff on here that I've alluded to that isn't necessarily 100% in the spirit of things, so I've included some stuff below the cut for the folks who have caught onto that. I would not suggest reading it if you like how all of this played out and want to keep it that way. I know that's incredibly vague, but I'm not sure how to phrase it without making it weird?

Thank you all for listening and talking to me over the past few days! That's where I'm leaving it!

...

...

...

...Is everyone who wants to keep believing in the disaster polycule gone? Yes? OK!

So, this was fake. I made up the whole thing. TK and C and T and everyone else are fictional characters. Did I lie? Yes. Thanks for coming to my TED Talk.

Q: All of it? Even the og AITA post? The followup AITA post? The screenshots?

A: All of it.

Q: Wh... Why did you do this...?

A: Well, first this all started as a Red vs Blue fanfic for the ship Chexer (Church/Tex/Tucker)-

It started as a fanfic for Chexer. However, I was already working on a different fanfic for RVB that was totalling about 15k words at this point (+ at least 90k to go), and I knew I would never have the time or energy to write this one. I thought: yknow. this would be really funny as an aita post.

Q: It was a fanfic of a Halo fanfic series.

A: Yep!

So, I submitted Tucker's perspective. I did not expect for it to get more than maybe 100 notes at most. I totally thought someone would call it out right away.

The funny part is, if I'd dedicated all this energy to a fic instead of this blog, I'd probably have about 15-20 thousand words of fic already, but whatever, can't ruin my personal day!

Also, I wanted to see how many people would figure it out/how long it would take for it to become too obvious that this was a fandom thing. I was dropping names and RvB lore since the beginning. A few people did figure it out, and I DMed them in private to let them know.

Q: But why make the blog then?

A: Because I love to lie and be a nuisance to the general populace! <3

It was always my intent to wait until Carolina's perspective got posted (i am honestly still shocked i got away with "Carey/Georgia/West Virginia/Alabama/Miss Louisiana 1988"), let it simmer for about a day, then come clean. Which is what I'm doing now!

The reason I'm coming clean now instead of dragging it out is because I don't want anyone to feel stupid or like they got duped. You're not stupid! You were a part of this story! This was, as one anon said, a creative writing project. It was a collaboration! Thank you so much for helping me!

That said, I'm sorry to anyone that finds this disappointing! I had a blast doing this, but I will not be doing it again. I have gotten my fill. I have had my taste of being an influencer, and now I can go on with my life without ever feeling like I need to start a youtube channel.

Q: How did you keep up with a consistent timeline?

A: I didn't, especially at first. But in my time as a liar who lies about things, I have found that usually people are willing to believe you when you say "yeah, i lied about that".

Q: Wait, what about the thing with your kid?

A: Yeah, I fucked up on this one. In the other fic I was/am writing, Tucker was around 33. So, when I was saying what Junior's age was, I subtracted it from 33 and got 18. It wasn't until I was showing my partner the blog and they said "Wait, he had his kid at 13??????" that I realized I had fucked up. Oops!

Q: Was it really ALL fake?

A: For the most part. I will say that I did actually drop chocolate cake all over my tits that one time and had to shower by myself like a fucking loser. That one was true. I did also get my nails done for the first time ever, which did actually affect my typing. And I am in a band (but so is Tucker, canonically)! There are a few other things as well, but I don't want to list all of them.

Q: DID you ever read homestuck?

A: Nope. And I never will.

Even the title, though I will say that the title I came up with was "Leonard "Alpha Bitch" Church's Decidedly Not Lo-Fi Beats to Get Nasty and Get Clean To: The Movie"

Q: So there was never a combination sex/bathtime playlist?

A: Maybe! But perhaps more accurately: the combination sex/bathtime playlist was inside of you all along. You can make it. There are only three songs on there that are canon to the lore of this blog. Those are No Children by The Mountain Goats, Take It Out On Me by Thousand Foot Krutch, and one unknown song from the album Good Apollo, I'm Burning Star IV by Coheed and Cambria (Yep, the call was coming from inside the house, I gave Church my music taste). I had intended this to be Wake Up, but it's out of my hands now. The rest is yours to fill in.

Q: What's your main blog, so I can follow you?

A: Hi, this is aitadjcrazytimes. You're not getting that.

Q: Your AO3 handle?

A: Nope, not that either.

You will never find me. And that's the way I want it. You will see me in every blog. Every new follower. Every stranger you meet on the street. You will look into your discord kitten's eyes, and you will absently wonder if he was the one behind aitadjcrazytimes. And you will never know for certain.

Q: But-

A: Let me live on in your memory. The only person who knows both who I am and the fact that I did this is my partner, who is not into RvB or commonly on tumblr. I am not a RvB blog. I am not a writing blog. I am a nobody on the fringes of tumblr society who's been here long enough to know how to remain in the shadows.

And, even if you do manage to find me, against all odds:

No one will ever believe you.

I am closing my askbox. I am also closing my messages. If you have anything to say to Tucker or Me (tumblr user aitadjcrazytimes), you are welcome to do so in the replies or reblogs, but you will not be receiving an answer. I'll keep this blog up for anyone that wants to go through after the fact and do a deep dive or what have you.

Thanks to everyone who made this into the wild ride it was! Live long and get fucked or whatever! Xoxo <3

[moongothic]

This is gonna turn into some Crocodad Propaganda eventually but putting the man aside for a little bit

Let's be real for a moment. Regardless of who Luffy's other biological parent is, regardless of if they're relevant to the story or not, no matter what has become of that person, if they're dead or somewhere out there alive, etc-- I believe Oda "knows the truth".

Although it took One Piece until post-Enies Lobby to reveal some of Luffy's blood relatives to us, Oda had technically introduced both Garp and Dragon to us all the way back in the East Blue saga. And Ace was introduced not too long after in the Baroque Works saga, along with his tattoo which held that secret tribute to Sabo all along. (Also he was introduced as "Portgaz D. Ace" meaning Oda must've intended to make the two non-blood brothers from the get-go.) All this means that Luffy's family, both adopted and blood relatives, have been in Oda's mind from the very begining of the story. And so if Oda had figured out Luffy's grandfather, father and at least one brother (if not both) from the begining, then why would he not have decided what became of the person who gave birth to the idiot as well? Like considdering how detail-oriented and meticulous Oda can be, would it not be unusual for him to essentially forget about a character that important (in the sense that Luffy literally would not exist without them) and just handwave them away without much thought? Would that not be out of character for Oda? As such, I don't think it is not unreasonable for us to believe that Oda would know what happened to Luffy's other bio-parent. Mind you, it really could be just something like "Luffy's mother died of The Disease when Luffy was a baby", or "the mom fell down the stairs" or "was eaten by a bear in the woods" or something, anything, whatever. Even if it truly does not matter to the story one bit, I'm sure Oda knows the truth of what happened and why that character wasn't a part of Luffy's life.

But at the same time, if the identity and the fate of Luffy's birthing parent truly did not matter to the story at all, then why wouldn't Oda just tell us who that was and what happened to them? In an SBS or an interview? It's not like people haven't been asking about it, because fans and staff alike have been asking about it for years. If the information really would not change anything, be it the direction the story will take or how we view the characters, if it really is just worthless trivia, then why keep it away from us?

Now of course, I'm sure you'd want to point out that one time Oda told Mayumi Tanaka that "A young boy's adventure begins after he leaves his mother's arms. I want to tell this young boy's adventure story, so his mom is not part of it." And Oda isn't known for lying, we do kind of want to take what he told Mayumi Tanaka at face value. At the same time though. If Luffy's other parent did become a plot relevant character in like the final 200 chapters of the story, after a 1100 chapters, they and their potential connection to Luffy would not have mattered to the story for 90% of its run. For an overwhealming majority of Luffy's adventure, that person would not have been a part of it. So if that character did become relevant, and Oda was lying, then it'd be a white lie at worst. But also, if Oda did intend to reveal that other parent eventually, when the time was right, then surely he wouldn't want to get people hyped up about it way ahead of time. If it did turn out to be a big plot twist or an otherwise important plot point, Oda would want to keep it under the wraps and a secret until the right time, you don't want to spoil something like that. Not to mention it could end up working like a distraction and make people not focus on the more important things happening in the story currently. So really, I think we'd all forgive him for a white lie there. Not to mention, technically speaking, if Luffy doesn't even have a mom but two dads, then Oda wouldn't really be lying either.

But that does bring up an important thing to considder.

If Crocodile does turn out to be Luffy's other dad, when did Oda get that idea, and when would he have committed to it?

Because, keep in mind, One Piece began back in 1997. Twenty seven whole years ago. Which means there's two things to considder; the evolution of queer rights over the past near three decades, as well as the fact that One Piece has more than surpassed Oda's original plans for the series. We must not forget how for a manga to remain serialized in Weekly Shounen JUMP, you need to perform well in the popularity polls consistently; if your manga starts dropping in popularity, JUMP can cancel it and force you end it prematurely. Of course, Oda arguably does not have to worry about those polls anymore after all these decades, there's no way in hell JUMP would ever cancel fucking One Piece in this day and age. But that might not have been the case 15 years ago, that was not the case 20 years ago, and that was absolutely not the fucking case 25 years ago. Like we all famously know that Oda originally planned One Piece to maybe run for like a year, then five years, then ten etc etc. That really is because at the begining of his career he had no quarantee he'd be able to tell the full story he was slow cooking at the back of his mind. Back in the early days, One Piece could've been canceled and ended prematurely, so Oda smartly chose to write it focusing very specifically on what mattered to the story at that moment, in the short term. Yes, he did start laying out the groundwork for things to come, but he did it so subtly that had OP been forced to end early, the series wouldn't have been left with too many massive, gaping plotholes or unresolved sidestories. Another thing to keep in mind is how comic artists for JUMP do have editors etc who can have a say in what goes into the manga (famously, Sasuke only existed because Matashi Kishimoto's editor suggested it). So again, while Oda might be able to do whatever the hell he pleases in One Piece at this point, that wouldn't have been the case 20+ years ago. He would have been more or less at the whims of his editors back in the day.

So would Oda have thought about giving Luffy, the main character of the series, a transgender father back in the year 2000? Could that really have been the secret plan from the start? And would Oda's editor(s) at JUMP have allowed that? Or, did Oda maybe come up with the idea later?

Now just so we're clear, I am NOT suggesting Crocodad was Oda's original intent and that his editors didn't let him do it or anything like that, my tinfoil hat isn't on that fucking tight. What I do want to suggest, is that it is plausible Crocodile being Luffy's other dad was an idea Oda was playing around with at the back of his mind from the begining, but wasn't sure he'd ever get to, mainly due to the uncertainty of series' future and partially because he could've been unsure if his editors would even allow him to write that story. And IF this was the case, Oda may not have even started committing to to the idea until around the CP9 saga. Or, it's possible Oda only got the idea sometime after the completion of the Alabasta arc/during Skypiea saga, and started laying down the groundwork for during Summit War so that, if he ever got around to it, he'd be able to commit and tell that story.

Regardless, let's be real.

It is interesting and kind of suspicious how Crocodile does just happen to be introduced around the same time the rest of Luffy's family was first shown to us, even if we didn't know Garp and Dragon were Luffy's family yet (this was also the same time the first canon queer character was introduced; Oda was playing around with queer characters during Crocodile's introduction, possibly testing the waters to see what he could get away with?) During the CP9 Saga we got the Miss Goldenweek cover story, where we see what's become of Crocodile after the fall of Baroque Works. This is of course adding to the world building of the CP9 Saga (where we're told the criminals who go through Enies Lobby are either sent to Impel Down or to Marineford; so us finding out Crocodile's gone to ID is playing off of what we knew would become of Robin and Franky and the Strawhats not come to rescue them. AND it's foreshadowing for the Summit War Saga), but also, soon after we were reminded of Crocodile and told where he's been sent off to, we were finally formally introduced to Garp and Dragon (Garp having already been mentioned by Aokiji at the begining of the Saga). And we close off the Saga watching Ace and Blackbeard have their fateful match. So again, Crocodile was on Oda's mind around the same time the rest of Luffy's family was. And indeed, after Thriller Bark we then move onto Summit War proper, where Oda does all The Things we would considder The Groundwork for Crocodad, most important being the introduction of Ivankov and their Devil Fruit. But again, just like before, Crocodile just happens to be there at the same time as this saga, which really heavily focuses on Luffy's family, plays out. While we learn about Dragon's secretive nature and connection to Iva-chan, Garp's feelings for the boys, Ace's struggle with his heritage and Luffy's love for him, Sabo and Garp... Yeah, Crocodile's just... Also there.

Whenever Oda starts dwelling into Luffy's family, Crocodile is always there. It's a bizarre coincidence if nothing else.

(And oh won't you look at that, Crocodile has once again become a plot relevant character, just in time for The Final Saga where Dragon has also started becoming actually plot relevant as well)

All of this to say, again.

The fact that Oda has refused to tell us anything about Luffy's other parent is sus, and to me indicates that either although unusual for him Oda genuinely just doesn't give a damn about Luffy's other parent, or he's been trying to play it safe for years so that if he ever got the opportunity, he could give Luffy two dads. (Or maybe there's some other twist that has nothing to do with Crocodile, that is possible too, I just feel like if that was the case then why hide it for 27 years?)

Whatever the case, I'm sure Oda knows the truth.

And I'm sure we will find out the truth eventually, be it on the pages of the comic or in the SBS.

[honestlyvan]

I do kind of wonder if the implicit assumption that Door is mad at Alan for involving Saga should be re-examined a little bit.

The game is very careful to not frame any of Saga's relationships as paternalistic. Like, repeatedly, with emphasis, especially among the relationships with people who are close to her and have reasons to act protective over her. Having Door primarily be motivated by a sense of righteousness over someone messing with his protectorate goes against theme with her, and would single him out as the only male character whose help Saga does need.

Furthermore, we know Freya didn't seem to think that highly of Door, never telling Saga anything about him and being firm in not wanting to discuss the topic. Her considering Door a potential danger to Saga just like her powers and choosing to hide the truth to protect her wouldn't make sense if she, too, could use her seer powers to confirm that Door did have Saga's best interest at heart, and with Door existing outside of time, I don't think there's adequate signalling that this would be something he would have had a change of heart about.

Furthermore, while Door is very likeable and definitely not a villain or even an antagonist... he is very trickster-like, and seems very cavalier with how he chooses to interfere and when. From his interactions with the Old Gods, spending fourty years on kill-on-sight terms with them only to happily fanboy over having them on his show and collaborate with them to mess with Alan, to the way he almost deigned to let Alan create a hint for Saga about how to use her powers rather than letting Saga and Tim just work it out amongst themselves, he's playing the long game in every situation and seems to enjoy making the story take twists and turns because of his involvement.

So Door is in a weird superposition of meddlesome/hands-off largely because I almost got a sense that with Saga, he's keeping his distance on purpose. Keeping himself concealed and out of the conversation, despite much of her story being discovering her origins and discovering her own supernatural influence. Outside of letting Alan create a single manuscript page about him, he doesn't even hint at his own existence while Saga is in the Dark Place, theoretically right there for him to reach out to.

And if Door does ultimately think that surely any daughter of his can handle herself, there is one another innocent that has been involved in this all by Wake I could see him getting worked up over instead.

[epically-ace-attorney]

*Intro Post ~ Welcome to the chaos!*

Hallo! This blog is an Ace Attorney AU using the musical EPIC! Canon is our bitch and we do as we please :)

The blog is joint run by @weltato (hi) and @the-ace-attorney-siren (formerly @burtrice1). Feel free to ask us anything about this AU in the inbox and not DMs - PLEASE NOTE THAT THIS IS A WIP AU AND IS CONSTANTLY BEING THOUGHT OUT!!

The "backstory" I suppose would be that Wel was watching a great guy on YouTube by the name of Mortius (you should check him out, he's cool) react to "We'll Be Fine" and "Love in Paradise" from the most recent saga released from EPIC as of writing this (20/09/2024) - The Wisdom Saga. Wel had also been binging through some Ace Attorney streams by The NyanCave (also really cool, you should check them out too) and had that on the brain at the same time. Then she noticed something interesting - Odysseus had been on Calypso's Island for seven years.

You wanna know who else had a seven year gap? Phoenix Wright.

So obviously, I go to burtrice1 and say:

And then this happens:

And everything came from there. Just imagine it: Phoenix on that cliff calling for Mia T^T

Anyway, we had some planning to do: there is currently a list of characters from The Ace Attorney Trilogy, Ace Attorney: Investigations 1 & 2 (we're using the fan translation names in this house), and Ace Attorney: Apollo Justice (because Wel hasn't finished Dual Destinies and hasn't seen Spirit of Justice yet) and what people from EPIC they're going in as.

*RULES OF THE BLOG!*

No spoilers for the games please! There will be people that see this blog with no idea about the Ace Attorney series and they'll want to find out themselves (also one mod hasn't finished the series yet).

No spoilers for EPIC! There will be people that see this blog with no idea what the craic is with EPIC and letting them experience the joy that is this musical is all the sweeter with no spoilers <3

As previously mentioned: game canon is our bitch and we do what we want with it, which means that if you see an inconsistency with ages or anything, no you don't ;p

To second that: we are fitting characters with roles we feel they fit the best in EPIC canon, so a villain from Ace Attorney might show up as a 'good guy' from EPIC - it's not because we've redeemed them, it's just that they fit the role nicely.

Please keep questions PG, there are minors that enjoy both Ace Attorney and EPIC and we'd like to keep this blog a safe space for everyone.

In the words of Ricky Potts: don't be a dick. We don't tolerate harassment of either the mods or anyone sending an ask into our inbox. Respect isn't hard, friend :)

If you've asked us a question and we haven't responded yet, please don't go into our personal inboxes or DMs to ask us about it - see the rule above. Both mods are busy people and do this purely for fun, so we'll get to your question when we see it. The timezone of this blog is GMT/BST depending on the time of year, so both mods could very well be asleep.

The canon of this AU follows with EPIC canon, which is NOT the actual Odyssey or Iliad. If you want to read those in your own time, feel free to.

Have fun! We want to share this with people to see your reactions and interact with other fans of the Ace Attorney games and EPIC: The Musical.

If you're excited about this blog, REBLOG OUR POSTS!! Reblogging is the lifeblood of Tumblr and can make or break a post. We want to reach as many people as possible with this silly little idea of ours.

If you want to write fics about our AU, please ask us first! Wel is a regular fic writer and she has some ideas floating around, so maybe let her finish those first before jumping in - but we love the enthusiasm! Thank you!

Fanart is awesome!! Please credit the idea to this blog and @ us in the post with the tag #epicallyaa, we'd love to see what you've done :D

This post will update with extra rules as and when needed, if we need to <3

*TAGS!*

#wel writes - this is for whenever Wel writes a fanfic about something. This is a personal tag from Wel, so if you want to see more of her work feel free to peruse that tag on her main Tumblr account. All the fics posted here will be specifically for this AU.

#siren art - this is for whenever the-ace-attorney-siren posts art to this blog. Again, any art posted here will be specifically for this AU.

#epicallyaa - this is a tag for us and others to use about our AU! If you post any fanart or fanfic about our AU, use this tag and @ this account too so that we can see your awesomeness :D

#wel answers - whenever Wel answers an ask

#the siren sings - whenever the-ace-attorney-siren answers an ask

Like the rules, more tags will be added as and when we feel we need some more.

Thanks for reading all of this!! This post is very important to read, so if you come in asking questions blind, we might just refer you to this post and ask you to try again :)

~ Wel & the-ace-attorney-siren

[aparticularbandit]

When the Rio leaks (re: her relationship with Agatha) dropped, I didn't believe them because I didn't think a Disney-run Marvel would allow for that.

However, in conversations regarding when the MCU might actually the queer, I considered Agatha a possibility - in part because of Kathryn Hahn, but in part because of something else.

In the grand scheme of things, Agatha doesn't matter.

Now, let me explain that, because I love Agatha and I'm loving the show. I don't really think she doesn't matter but—

-sighs-

Agatha Harkness was only supposed to be in WandaVision. She was not intended to have her own show, she was not intended to have multiple appearances, she was not intended to necessarily show up again.

Agatha Harkness gained her own show on the basis of Jac's writing, Kathryn's performance, and the fans' reaction to her.

But Agatha does not matter to the grand scheme of whatever is happening in this saga of the Marvel Cinematic Universe. If she was, Kathryn would have been signed on for multiple things when she signed on as Agatha the first time, Jac would have known early on that she would be continuing Agatha later, etc. etc.

What this means is that a Disney-run Marvel could use Agatha's show as a testing ground for all of the queer.

It's an indicator of what the average viewer wants and enjoys.

If it does well, then the Disney/Marvel conglomerate can feel more assured about future queer content (particularly when it comes to characters like Billy and Teddy and America).

If it does NOT do well, then Agatha and all of the characters herein (minus Billy and Teddy) can be written off because they don't need them for anything in the future anyway. They're just here because the fans loved Agatha and WandaVision. They don't matter.

And it does feel very much like that's what they're doing with Agatha All Along. They gave Jac more leeway to write a queer story, and she's hitting it out of the park, as are each of the actors portraying their characters. They're doing SUCH a good job.

But this really is about audience perception.

So I hope that the show does well for more than just us queers here on tumblr.com.

(And I honestly don't know how to gauge that.)

[rumbar-records]

I know I can't be the first one to say this but man... Luffy and Vivi really do have one of the most compelling dynamics in One Piece

There are many reasons for this, but the first thing that comes to mind is how Vivi is one of the very few characters who went through the ordeal of challenging Luffy's principles and having hers be challenged in turn and came out of it with a draw

I mean, Luffy getting into ideological conflicts with other characters isn't anything new, but what happened in Alabasta Saga stood out to me because they show how Luffy and Vivi are foils in a way that I don't think we often see in Luffy's relationship with others, let alone female characters. [more thoughts + rambly analysis under the cut]

like. These two basically took turns - first Vivi in Drum, then Luffy in Alabasta - to grab the other by the collar and tell them no, the way you're doing things is wrong and then forcefully redirect them to a better alternative that I'd argue was against their personal code at that point.

In Drum, Vivi told Luffy off for following his impulse to fight the pirate-wary locals when it could ruin their chances of finding a doctor for Nami; implying he should think about his crew more and how the consequences of his action can affect them. In Alabasta, Luffy berated Vivi for risking her own life trying for a futile, nonviolent way to end the rebellion when the obvious solution is to involve the Strawhats and directly take on Crocodile; implying she should think about herself more and how it's impossible for her to do it all alone.

The narrative is pretty obvious in stating that Luffy is supposed to be a selfish person and Vivi is supposed to be a selfless one. But I think once you take the time to examine their characters and how they clashed, like mentioned above, it's fair to argue that their inherent traits are more nuanced than they may suggest. At its best, Luffy's selfishness extends to every person he considers as his and encourages others to also shamelessly pursue what they want; meanwhile, at its worst, Vivi's selflessness deprives her peers from accountability and places herself as the only one to bear what is supposed to be a collective burden. Selflessly selfish meets Selfishly selfless!

And I like how Vivi and Luffy seem to intuit that when trying to make the other change their mind!! Vivi essentially going I get that you're being protective of your friends but you have to recognize when your usual way of doing things isn't going to cut it in Drum, and Luffy pretty much going I know you don't want anymore casualties but you have to accept that not risking anything will only get you nowhere in Alabasta...

Not only did Luffy and Vivi end up conceding to each other's point, the narrative also framed these fights as instances where Vivi/Luffy is right and the other has to change what is criticized about themselves in order to reach their goals. Luffy needs to learn that defeating an opponent in a fight cannot be his only means to protect his crew and people he cares about. Vivi needs to learn that refusing to involve her comrades and putting only herself on the line won't help her save her country.

Also, although unspoken in text, it's clear that when these two butted heads they were holding the other to their own standards of what a leader is - which is so compelling to think about! Luffy and Vivi are very stubborn people who are very opinionated about their beliefs, but in the short time they have together they'd built a mutual understanding and respect that allow them to unreservedly push and push against each other's notion of captainship and sovereignty. But at the same time it's achingly obvious that the trust and affection is there!! They are friends!!!

just. even them being fascinating foils aside, which is a hill I will die on, the entire "jumbled collision between two contrasting sets of lives (pirates vs nobles) and roles (ship captains vs princesses) and future positions (pirate king vs queen of a desert country) being quietly smoothed out then streamlined into two folks on an equal standing because at the end of the day they're just leaders with people to protect" thing that pre-TS Luffy and Vivi got going on alone is so damn crunchy to me. I'm super excited/anxious to see how late canon would pick up where they left off !!!!!

[insane-thoughts-oftheday]

A (not) so small philosophical interpretation of Odysseus in epic

Disclaimer: I'm doing this analysis for fun, please don't take everything I write as truth, because this text is based on my interpretation and, even though it took some academic research to do it. It's worth remembering that I don't have a degree in philosophy yet, so I can still make mistakes on some points. Another point I want to highlight is that I wrote this text in a language other than English, and there may be some translation errors by Google, so I apologize if anything is confusing or if you have any questions about something, feel free to comment or send an ask, I'll do my best to explain.

(Notice that's basically me as far as you decide to read this blog)

EPIC:the musical is a work that is very present in my life and in the lives of many other people who are reading this little fan outburst; And if you've just stumbled upon this craze and are hearing about it for the first time, a brief summary is that it's a musical, more addictive than drugs, that tells the story of Odysseus, that guy from Greek mythology who spent 20 years trying to get home after the Trojan War, also known as Simp by his wife Penelope. We have moments of joy, sadness, introspection and many fan outbursts caused by the owner of it all, Jorge Rivera-Herrans, who is not only the creator but also the lead singer of this masterpiece, playing Odysseus and a few others.

But let's get back to the analysis here because I could talk about this for hours without stopping.

A few months ago, when the Underworld saga was released, I remembered the phrase:

"If you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you."

This phrase was written by Nietzsche in the book Beyond Good and Evil, and it reminds me a lot of the Odysseus we see in EPIC, although the phrase is incomplete in the previous quote, even though it is the most common one we see being spread around. The original is:

“Whoever fights monsters should take care that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”

And I also remember thinking about that phrase by Heraclitus, which I think everyone has heard, probably incompletely, at some point in school:

“No one can step into the same river twice, for when he steps into it again, the waters are not the same, and the being itself has already changed. Thus, everything is governed by dialectics, the tension and the alternation of opposites. Therefore, reality is always the result of change, that is, of the struggle between opposites.”

In my opinion, I think that both phrases fit well with the version of the character that we see starring in the entire musical, since most ancient myths and poems have different versions and translations and of course Jorge took some artistic liberties; Odysseus is a Greek hero who fights against many monsters, both mythical and internal, taking into account his ethics as a person while trying to survive and return home.

I think it's interesting to point out that from here on I'll use some different terms, but I'll do my best to explain them.

We can see that throughout all the sagas Odysseus is describing the line of what it is to be human and how one can easily slip off it; this line is located between the definition of gods and monsters/animals and is known as Metron, which gave rise to the word measure, and here we will use it as a synonym for limit for something. It's also good to say that metron has nothing to do with a person's morals/character, because it's a question of ethics.

Morals are the set of rules that concern good and evil, right and wrong. These standards refer to values ​​that are passed down from generation to generation and guide the conduct of individuals in their daily lives. (personal)

Ethics is a field of philosophy whose object of study is the principles that guide morality. In this sense, ethics is a philosophical reflection on morality, approaching the universal principles that govern the common good and coexistence between human beings in general. (common sense)

In my opinion about the musical, the issue of gods and monsters is not so different. For me, in that context, monsters and gods are the same thing, since they are outside the ideal of humanity, but this point may be mentioned later.

Metron is not a knowledge, it is, above all, the limit between impossibility and weakness.

We can see in several Greek myths that human beings like to cross this line, most stories end in tragedy because of this, human beings can also be called “Hybris” which is an excess, it is being hybrid, having two natures, acting in two ways, it is being in the Metron and trying to be something that one is not, because thinking that we can be more than men is arrogance, and arrogance is a human emotion, another story that exemplifies this well is the myth of Oedipus who tries to overcome his destiny given by the gods and ends up fulfilling it anyway.

Hybris is a Greek concept that can be translated as "everything that goes beyond the measure; "immoderation" and which currently alludes to excessive confidence, exaggerated pride, presumption, arrogance or insolence (originally against the gods), which often ends up being punished.

It is worth noting that hybris would in no way be a sin, in the concept of the word and the ideal current translation for it would be "Hamartia", which by chance is also no longer used in its original meaning because of the Catholic Church.

Now going to the interesting part because I was just giving context of terms.

In The Horse and the Infant, we 'meet' our beloved version of Odysseus, where during the Trojan War he states that everything he is doing is for his wife Penelope and his son Telemachus, using this as a way to inspire his men to carry out the massacre that he himself did not want to participate in, I think because of his moral nature, the proof is so much that in Homer's original Odyssey, he pretends to be crazy so as not to show up when called, unfortunately he is unmasked and forced to go.

We also see here that up until now Odysseus is still a very moral character, he has his reasons for being there, he, like the other warriors, has a family and his deepest desire is to return to them. So with this we can conclude that he is still just a man, he is human.

In the same song we see how far his morality goes, as he receives the divine mission to kill the young Trojan prince, Astyanax, who is just a baby, due to the threat that one day he will want revenge on him and his kingdom.

All of this creates doubts in Odysseus, about the morality of gods and men. Here we see him crossing the line and this whole text begins to be about ethics, as it is common sense that killing a child is a monstrous act, but for him not to kill means that his family will die in a more horrendous way later and he cannot let that happen.

Then we have the monologue in Just a Man, the best song, where we can really see the doubts mentioned earlier. And one detail that I find very interesting and that will be important for this text is that in Gigi's animatic, we can see Odysseus' "monster" being 'born' and its source is the baby and his doubts about whether he would really be a monster just for that, even though at that moment the baby is still just a human, the mission to kill him little by little makes him a monster due to the possibility that one day he himself will commit several atrocities.

It's fun for me to think that representing 'the monster' as a tree could be an allusion to the fact that trees take as long to grow as a monster takes to be formed by man.

I think you now understand part of Nietzsche's quote. Odysseus looking at his own reflection and not recognizing himself, seeing the monster he will become if he crosses the metronome is very well treated in several animatics, but the most visible is in Gigi's where he is not only referenced but shown as a completely different being both in attitudes and thoughts.

I'll just pause to say that I love how Gigi did the work of showing the tree growing in the shape of a skull, which could be the deaths that the monster will bring or that it is a macabre thing to do, I don't know, I just love this detail for some reason.

And also how I think that makes a point of showing that the real problem is not the baby but rather Odysseus' unethical thoughts developing because of his doubts.

Ok, end of the pause and start of a mini explanation.

I didn't think this analysis would be so long and in my original thought I was only going to end up mentioning a few songs and focusing more on "No Longer You" and "Monster" but it ended up getting out of control and listening to the musical again it seems like I can make a lot of connections that I hadn't thought of before but now I can't express them properly, so from now on there will be a gigantic gap in content that I might fill later in another post or by editing this one, but at the moment thinking too much about it is giving me a headache and I really wanted to be able to post this now along with the Wisdom Saga because it's something I did for fun from fan to fan and I know that now the fandom is busier. One day I swear I'll do a complete analysis relating song by song, but not today for the sake of my mental health.

End of explanation, subject change.

Going through his entire journey, Ody goes to the underworld after Tiresias who reveals that he will never return home, which makes him indignant, I think any human would be, how much he suffered to get there for nothing. Here we can see how Heraclitus fits into the prophet, and as much as I hate cutting philosophical phrases in half, I don't think I need to use the whole thing to make sense of it here, because the most well-known part of it is enough to get to the point discussed here, since it really won't be him who returns to Ithaca, but rather another man, a man haunted by his own past and by the ethics of his people.

There is no way a man who spent 20 years away from home, suffering for the divine and for his own mind, can be the same, because this is a human characteristic, humans are hybrid beings, which implies that we can change our own nature while gods and monsters will always follow the same line of thought, since they are perfect they do not need drastic changes to live as they are.

That's it. So finally we have the mental breakdown where Ody begins to accept that it doesn't matter if he is a monster to everyone, he did what was necessary. He looked into the abyss and was looked back. He becomes the monster, even if he compares himself to the other divine creatures, which I think he never really learned to differentiate from humans, because Ody my friend there is no way you can really reach the level of a cyclops or a god with a wounded ego, or a traumatized nymph, time makes things very trivial for them and let's face it you will not live even half as long as they do because you are just a mortal.

And I don't know how to make gifs so here are some prints to illustrate the last paragraph. But before that I wanted to thank you if you read this far, I know the ending was kind of bad but I'm emotionally tired, I hope I at least conveyed the idea that was in my head. Thank you and stream the new saga!!!!

(All arts belong to gigi!! go check out this amazing work!!!)

[missempanada]

I'm gonna say something that is probably gonna get me in hot waters but: the whole discourse around Nico di Angelo's race is painfully US-centric. Race doesn't really matter in the original Percy Jackson saga, however in Nico's case, the place and time he was born and raised in is an integral part of his character.

Do I have anything against the actor chosen for Nico being a POC? No, I wouldn't. But we need to keep in mind that's a child who spent his formative years in fascist Italy. A country where very strict racial laws were kept in place.

The Leggi Razziali were the first racial laws passed in Italy and that was in 1928 - Nico would've been 4 years old when that happened. And the Manifesto della razza published 10 years later prohibited marriages between Italians, Jews and Africans, as Italians were seen as descendants of the Aryan race. Also most Africans that lived in Italy in the 1930s came from colonized areas. RR wasn't even able to get into all the nuances of Nico growing up gay in fascist Italy and this would add on another topic that needs to be carefully discussed. Can it be done? Of course. But considering how changing Medusa's story ended up being a hot mess (in my opinion), I wouldn't have much faith in it.

I've seen some kids on Twitter saying Nico's race doesn't matter because "this is a fictional story about greek gods and about how them fighting led up to WW2". And while yes, that may be fictional and kind of ridiculous, Italian fascism is very much real. It's something that real Romani, African and Jewish Italians were affected by. It's also something that White Italians were affected by if they were gay or leftist. And it's something that keeps on affecting people nowadays especially with the rise of neo-fascism we have got going on in Southern Europe. Just because it doesn't affect YOU as a USAmerican it doesn't mean that these issues shouldn't be tackled carefully. To cast a POC boy to play Nico and not explain any of this would be a disservice.

Which leads me to the next thought: I've barely seen any people call for a Roma or Sinti Nico, which would make much more sense geographically and historically than, let's say, an "East Asian Nico" (unless he was Japanese which, again, leads back to fascism). And I can't help but wonder if the reason for this is that there's much less Roma and Sinti people in the US compared to Europe. That would be proof to me of how a lot of USAmericans aren't able or don't want to understand how the world works under a race system that isn't their own.

I feel sorry for the kid they cast as Nico because depending on what race he is he's gonna see either racists or "woke" people complaining about his casting.

[dionysism]

Please. Tell us your thoughts on epic the musical if you will. Positive and negative

i think i have before but its spread out across multiple posts so i will just go ahead and put everything into one place lol

trigger warning again for light reference to s/a cause i'm referring to what happened in the odyssey

positive:

i think they have clever word play. i made a post before about how the "i've got you, don't worry, circe's got you now" has the neat dual meaning with "i've got you" in its positive reassuring meaning and "i've got you now" in it's sinister "you're trapped i've got you" meaning. same thing with zeus' "a foe who won't run, unlike anyone you have faced before" sounding like he means some big dangerous enemy when he's actually referring to an infant.

the songs are catchy, i must admit! the musical scores are impressive too. i also like how the use the instruments to tell the story. like how each character has an instrument thats associated with them, and how you can tell the penelope in suffering is not actually penelope because her signature instrument is missing. neat stuff. i also like how eurylochus' instrument is the crew themselves.

negative:

i think some of their creative liberties undermine the point of the story or just do it a disservice, something i've said before in other posts. to be specific, i feel they have made this into a story of a Good character who turns ruthless after everything he's had to endure, and while that is an interesting story to explore, it's not odysseus' story. odysseus is, for lack of a better word, morally gray from the start. i think morally gray is really too simplistic to describe him as he is a rather complex character but what i mean is he is not a Good guy but he's not entirely a Bad guy either, you know? the odyssey is not about a honorable hero who sacrifices his morals by the end, it's a guy who's already kinda questionable who continues to do questionable things at times. for example "lets lead from the heart, see what starts" is just not something he would really say 😭😭 also in monster when he says "what if ive been far too kind to foes" hes not really kind to his foes. yes, he is capable of mercy, but hes not always approaching things with a "lets be kind ❤️" attitude.

having him spare polyphemus out of mercy was stupid to me, personally. in the odyssey he doesn't kill polyphemus because he needs him to move the boulder blocking the cave exit, and also, given his size, odysseus isn't fully certain they can kill him. blinding him instead of killing him was not an act of mercy, it was a strategic choice. and also having them kill his sheep first was senseless to me. the whole thing in the odyssey is polyphemus is in the wrong, and odysseus is in the right. they don't kill his sheep immediately, and polyphemus violates xenia, because polyphemus doesn't care about xenia. this why odysseus feels comfortable to reveal his name at the end, because he knows he's in the right, and he assumes he has delivered a punishment in accordance with the gods for the violation polyphemus has committed. it's still unwise of him to do so, but at least you can see where he's coming from. in epic it kind of makes no sense because they came into his house, killed his sheep, and then he reveals his name and home address after that?!:?:?:? and then athena fucking off forever like okay?:$:?:?: what was that about.

circe saga really irked me, aside from the compliments i've already given. they removed the aspect of him having to sleep with circe by just having him say no. the situation is not this simple. he literally could not say no. one, because hermes already warned him on the way there not to say no to anything she asks of him and two because shes literally a goddess. like yes the moly protects him from her spells but she could still very much kill him if she wanted. and there's also the factor of her having his men captive as swine. in the odyssey this shows you how powerless he is before the gods, which, is a pretty important aspect of the odyssey! also it's just simply unlike circe, as a character, to be like "ah i'm so moved by your faithfulness and acts of kindness i think i will just let your men go and aid your journey for absolutely nothing in return ❤️" whole saga just came off very sanitized. curious as to how they intend to approach calypso.

underworld saga like i said before its the sudden switch of him being about "leading from the heart" and "kindess" to "then i'll become the monster" like woah... just felt like abrupt 180 to me. and again it just annoys me in general cause this character arc is simply not accurate for him 😭 i've also said this before somewhere but sometimes i feel like the odysseus in epic is more like an oc than an adaptation of homer's odysseus. hence why i see him as a completely separate character (and get annoyed when people conflate them as one)

thunder saga i had more minor gripes with like the fact that odysseus also had the beeswax in his ears unlike in the odyssey where he doesn't and has his men tie him to the mast while he listens. this is just simply because i thought a song from odysseus' perspective while he's deluded by the siren song and begging to be untied would have been really interesting. but oh well ☹️ i actually will admit i didn't complete hate the change with his mens death for the cattle. obviously, in the odyssey, he's not given a choice by zeus—they kill the cattle, they leave eventually, zeus strikes the ship and odysseus is the sole survivor. however i do think this is interesting to explore. odysseus obviously cares very deeply for his men, and would do near anything to bring them home. he's not the type to just sacrifice them willy nilly like they don't matter. (the bit in the circe saga where eurylochus wants to leave them behind and odysseus says no we need to at least try is biblically accurate, that does happen in the odyssey) but at the end of the day... getting back to penelope trumps all else. so would he, do you think? if he had been given the choice, would he let them all die to see her again? i think he would have. especially by that point. so that's one change i'm like, okay, that's kind of interesting. i don't hate this.

so overall, theres multiple things i do like about it! and i do appreciate the creativity and effort that's gone into the project and it always makes me happy to see people passionate about greek mythology. i just think they've lost the plot a little. i feel like it's become a story about a Good man who continuously gets punished for being good until he caves to ruthlessness which like i said, is an interesting concept, but just not the story of the odyssey.

[i-will-change-this-someday]

Here are my thoughts on The Vengeance Saga.

(Spoilers ahead)

I enjoyed it, I don’t think it’s my favorite, but I still really like it.

I think it’s because this is the first saga to come out after I started listening, but the transitions to each song seems a bit abrupt.

Cause when I think about it, the cut from Just A Man to Full Speed Ahead, Open Arms to Warrior Of The Mind, and The Underworld to No Longer You are all pretty abrupt as well.

Pretty sure this is an unpopular opinion, but Calypso is... fine? She's not good by any means, but people act like she's evil incarnate.

I don't know if I'm missing something here, but why are people making her out to be most evil character in all of EPIC?

Polyphemus thinks it's fair to kill 600 people over the life of one sheep (That he would have killed and eaten anyway?)

Poseidon kills over 500 men all for his own pride (I really don't think he actually cared that much about Polyphemus given how crass he sounded about killing him)

Circe turns men into pigs (And eats them?) without giving them a chance at proving that they mean no harm

Odysseus sacrifices the lives of his men who he is captain to, and I might be talking nonsense, but I feel like that means that he has a responsibility to them and their safety, he is their captain, they are saying "I trust you with my life and to take me home" and he betrayed that trust

All of them do these awful things, but you can understand why they do. But for some reason the same is not given to Calypso, she literally says he is all she's ever known. It's not fair for her to keep Odysseus on the island, but can you blame her when letting him go means she'll be alone again? Would you be able to let the one and only person you have ever met go? Knowing you'd likely be alone again forever?

Anyway what I don't see nearly enough is hatred for Antinous, I hate that man, he's literally a child abuser (I know Telemachus isn't a child, but he was at one point and Antinous was there [Telemachus literally doesn't even know how to fight] do you really think he didn't abuse that child?) That man is (assumedly) already nobility, but that's not good enough for him, he needs to be king and will force himself onto Penelope and kill her son.

Okay rant over, anyways Dangerous is a bop.

I really do adore Troy's voice, and really like his music (I'm actually listening to his music as I write this)

Dangerous is probably my favorite song this saga, but only in terms of "I will listen to this outside of a full listen of the musical" I probably wouldn't listen to the others without context of the rest of the musical.

How do you pronounce Charybdis?

I do feel like he got past Charybdis really easily, but I get that Poseidon was the focus for the saga, so I don't mind it.

Steven Rodriguez's voice is so good.

I was kinda hoping for one more verse from Poseidon before Odysseus's line but that's alright

At this point I shouldn't even be surprised if there's a Polites cameo

Also I feel like this is a given, But Jorge's voice is also amazing, and he really gave his all for the screams and yells this saga.

Okay, time for another tangent, I'll admit the wind bag jetpack is kinda goofy, but it's really not that bad to me. Ancient Greece also didn't have high fives (I'm pretty sure anyways) but people don't say anything about that, also the slang "sick" probably wasn't invented in ancient Greece. (I will say, I did like one idea I saw that someone say [I'm sorry, I don't remember who] that the wind bag split the ocean and they were fighting on the ocean floor)

I've seen a lot of people be mad that Odysseus beat Poseidon, but I feel like it would have been unsatisfying if he just lost. Like say he didn't beat him, and was getting beaten up until Zeus or someone was like "Yo, chill bro that dude is like fine or whatever, let him go" I feel like that would have been an underwhelming conclusion to the Vengeance Saga.

Like sure, should Poseidon been able to kill Odysseus? Yes. But don't humans beat the Gods in some stories? (I‘ll be honest, I don’t know a whole lot about Greek mythology and most of what I do know is from PJO which I haven’t read in a while.) Like Arachne was a better weaver than Athena, or Diomedes wounded Ares (?) so I feel like it’s not that unreasonable.

I’m not saying you have to like it, I just feel like people are saying it’s bad without giving an alternative that would be narratively satisfying. Like, it’s satisfying to get to see Odysseus knock Poseidon down a peg, it’s compelling to see how much Odysseus has become a monster, and wonder how much more he will fall to monstrosity before he returns home.

To me, the story is a tragedy about a man who wanted something so much he gave everything he had, his morals, his companions, his compassion, he gave everything for it, and in the end he became someone else entirely.

Ody beating up Poseidon shows how much he has changed, if he had lost and just pleaded with him, how is he any different from the Odysseus that got on his knees and begged a god to spare a life in the very first song? He's not that man anymore, he has changed so much that it's, at least in this moment, a god kneeling and begging.