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celestialmoondragon · 4 months ago

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On Eurylochus in Epic: the Musical

Hey, guys! I've been struggling to put this together since Thunder Saga because the amount of Eurylochus hate I saw after that saga just really stuck in my craw. Now, to be clear, I'm not pointing fingers or saying it was everyone, and a lot of it tapered off so I think it was just a gut reaction after the Saga came out but I've always identified more with Eurylochus while everyone else seems to fall over Polites.

Not that I have a problem with Polites or anything. I just find the 'blindly optimistic sunshine character' to be rather irritatingly naive most of the time? Again, I identify with Eurylochus’s character & philosophy. I'm not trying to prove he’s better in any way. I've just been trying to put together something to articulate why I think Eury deserves more love.

So here is what I’ve been affectionately calling ‘The Eurylochus Apologist Post.’

Full Speed Ahead:

This song sets up the relationship between Ody, Eury & Poli. It's clear it's a dynamic they're used to: Eury & Poly providing seemingly opposing arguments and Ody finding a sensible middle ground between them. I've seen posts saying it's the Devil & Angel on Ody's shoulders but I don't like that argument because it assigns a moral value to their arguments that isn't there. I think the reason this has worked so far is because Ody sits between them, balancing their viewpoints as both pessimistic caution and blind optimism could be dangerous to their survival solely on their own.

Eury's argument for theft feels extreme, sure, but keep in mind these men just got out of a 10-year war. He's not arguing because he wants aggression or slaughter. Later songs show him going out of his way to avoid conflict enough that an argument could be made for his cowardice although I don't believe that to be the case. Here, he thinks a quick in-and-out is a safer, more cautious approach when dealing with the unknown residents of an unknown island.

I would argue that Poli's desire to openly trust strangers is a more unusual philosophy post-war. And maybe his blind optimism has helped the men keep their spirits up. (Everything's changed since Polites.) But Ody says 'No, let's give them a chance at a peaceful resolution.'

Both songs before this have shown us how tired of violence & death Ody is but some people read this as him agreeing wholesale with Poli's philosophy which is not the case as he's by far the most cautious of the two in Open Arms. It's only as a result of Poli's death that he tries to be kind to Polythemus, perhaps in honor of his friend. But also simply to spite Athena, who's been rather aggressively telling him he's wrong, and Ody is nothing if not a petty bitch.

Back to Eury tho.

Luck Runs Out:

Eury expresses his doubt after Poli's death. Yeah, they've worked together for at least 10 years and possibly grew up together, but the Polythemus incident is the first time that Ody's cleverness fails. The first time their crew actually dies as Ody's managed to keep them all safe the entire war. And their personal friend was the very first. He sees their mortality for possibly the first time.

He expresses this throughout Storm. He was CAUTIOUS in Full Speed Ahead, yeah, but the level of defeatism in Storm is extreme. And nearly right after, while he's still struggling, Ody wants to try his tricks on a GOD? There's no indication that he knows about Ody's personal relationship with Athena. All he could see is his friend being arrogant enough to stroll right up to a GOD like it's nothing right after they lost their best friend and several others to a monster. A God is a more dangerous opponent than a monster. (Don't you know how dangerous the gods are?)

So he tries to articulate his feelings and worries and what does Ody do? Dismisses them. Entirely. Or at least that's what it feels like to Eury. This is something he wasn't doing before. It's also here that we see Ody parrot Poli's philosophy. This is a huge out-of-character shift in their dynamic. Ody isn't playing the middle ground anymore, a mix between trust and caution, the best of both. He's now the other extreme and the dynamic doesn't work with only two points of the triangle.

Now, Eury isn't perfect. He definitely should have expressed his doubts in private where the crew couldn't hear them argue. And Ody does try to reassure him but it's coming from this place of ego & optimism. Eury feels like he doesn't get it. They're both talking at each other but not getting through. And to put the cherry on top, after Ody pulls him aside, all Eury hears is that his concerns don't matter. It isn't necessarily what Ody means. Ody, I think, just wants to caution him about making the crew doubt his leadership but, to Eury, Ody's words come across as 'I'm going to keep doing what I'm doing and you're just going to have to deal.' Which, again, is not how their dynamic works before. Ody fully hears him out in Full Speed Ahead and incorporates his advice into the final plan.

But he isn't doing that here. Eury's final okay is him giving up on trying to get through to Ody right now. Without other events, they might have had a chance to talk about it later and actually reconcile but neither of them are in a state to do so right now.

Keep Your Friends Close:

The captain comes back from an ill-advised talk with a GOD with a mysterious bag that he claims has to stay closed. The crew is agitated by the winions claiming its treasure and the harrowing events of the cave and storm. Remember, Eury's backing vocals are the crew. He speaks for them. While there might have been members who think Ody was lying about the contents, I don't think Eury opened the bag out of a sense of greed. There's been no indication that he's greedy at all. But the crew is growing increasingly agitated and the Captain is obsessing over the bag to the point that he stays awake for 9 days. That's weird. That's out of character.

People act like the wind bag reveal and his 'sudden' distrust came out of nowhere but the entire first half of the Storm Saga shows their relationship deteriorating. Should Eury have given him the benefit of the doubt considering their years of friendship a trust? Probably. I'm not saying Eury is perfect.

Maybe I'm assigning a thought process that isn't there, but if I were in that position? I'd be worried. Not just about the captain's judgment being impaired from lack of sleep but also there's no telling if the God told Ody the truth about the contents of the bag. I think Eury still trusts Ody but what if Ody's the one being tricked? The crew is agitated, his captain & friend is acting strange, they've got a mysterious bag with unknown contents...

Of course, he opened the bag.

One argument I've seen the most is that if he hadn't opened the bag, Poseidon wouldn't have caught them and the 557 men wouldn't have died before they got to Ithaca. Well, I would argue that there's no indication Poseidon couldn't get them on Ithaca even if they had made it, but that's not really relevant.

Eury has always, always been worried about the safety of the crew.

He just wanted to check. Be able to reassure the crew & make sure Ody was okay.

They. Did. Not. Know. He. Was. Chasing. Them.

While Ody does question the origin of the storm, (Is it nature or Divine or a blessing in disguise?), it's more idle speculation. That line exists more as a hint to the audience that something is afoot more than an indicator that Ody's figured out, out of nowhere with no context, that the god of the sea is hunting them. With the benefits of hindsight, we the audience know they wouldn't have died, but within the story, the characters didn't have any clue and I don't feel it's fair to blame Eury.

Puppeteer

Eury tries to fess up immediately. Eury tries to tell Ody his mistake as soon as possible but Ody is, once again, not in a state to hear him out. That isn't either of their faults at all but it does erode their relationship further. It's unclear if he's seeking absolvement, atonement, or just reassurance, but what is clear is that the guilt festers until he blurts it out at the absolute worst time in Scylla.

Eury gets a lot of flack for proposing they leave the men captured by Circe. Is it necessarily the morally correct choice to abandon their crew? No, and I won't say it is. But his decision is perfectly in line with his character.

(Look at all we've lost and all we've learned.

Every single cost is so much more than what we've earned.

Think about the men we have left before there's none.

Let's just cut our losses, you and I, and let's run.)

He's begging & pleading for Ody to not through them up against another foe they can't win against. He's saying 'look, we've lost nearly everyone. It's okay if we're cowards here because we won't have anything left if we fail again.'

Now this is somewhat speculative on my part, but If Eury was really a coward or really didn't care about Ody, he probably could have convinced the crew left on the ship to cut and run while Ody confronted Circe alone. All he would have to do is use the same argument he tried on Ody. I think the narrative decision to make Eury's backing instrument the crew tells us pretty clearly that they'll side with him. It's shown most obviously in Mutiny, of course, but it's first demonstrated in Luck Runs Out.

Different Beast

Eury is technically not in this song except for the fact that he is. Because Eury reflecting the crew works both ways. He is the crew & the crew is him. Now the crew, including him, are all on board with Ody's change. Eury wouldn't have left the sirens to chase them or attack others either. He thinks their viewpoints are aligned again, not the Ody has gotten to the opposite extreme of 'only I have to survive.' Not Ody realizes this either.

Scylla

This is were Eury breaks. He blurts out the truth that's been eating him alive at the worst moment. He thinks he's in a good place to confess and try to talk to Ody again because as far as he knows, they're just sailing through a dark cavern. He has no idea Scylla is there until they're attacked. Even when Ody instructs him to light torches, he probably thinks it's because it's dark.

And then she starts eating the crew Ody deliberately made her target. Whether Eury was one of the intended targets doesn't matter, in my opinion, as much as Eury realizes that Ody's new philosophy for survival doesn't include the crew.

I've seen speculation that Scylla has some sort of truth-compelling power but I believe it was terrible timing myself. The framing of Scylla leaves the audience speculating who she's talking to until it's revealed at the end that it's Ody. Her (breaking the bonds you have made) line comes after Eury's confession not because she's compelling the truth but because she knows what response Ody's gonna have. She knows him because only someone like her would brave her lair. (We're the same, you and I.)

Mutiny

This is by far the most complicated bit and I'm not going to pretend Eury isn't a bit of a hypocrite here. I think he would have made the same choice to sacrifice 6 men if it came down to it, since he was willing to leave some of them on Circe's Island, but I don't think Eury does. He thinks he's always made the most pragmatic, logical choices for the crew's overall survival. He sees Ody's compromised mental state in Luck Runs Out/Keep Your Friends Closer but he didn't necessarily see his own then or now.

So he rounds on Ody. Ody deliberately forced them onto a dangerous path that would see some of them dead without telling them the risks. Eury 'for the crew' lochus can't believe that after all the risks he's taken to save them all, Ody would suddenly decide they don't matter.

(If you want all the power, you must carry all the blame) is a line I've seen people use to argue Eury's hypocrisy but I've always interpreted it differently. He isn't saying 'You're the captain so everything that's happened is your fault,' he's saying 'If you want to keep secrets and throw your crew away, you can't blame them for fighting back.' I believe this to be the case because it comes after (You miss your wife so bad, you trade the lives of your own crew.)

Between the two is Ody's line (Don't make me fight you, brother, you know you'd have done the same) and, as I said earlier, I firmly believe Eury would have done the same in Ody's place. Or would have less of an issue if they crew were informed before and drew lots or something. But he can't see his own hypocrisy. Whereas Ody was too compromised to see Eury's POV in Luck Runs Out, Eury is now too compromised to see Ody's.

How do we know this?

Because Mutiny begins to mirror Luck Runs Out. The crew parrots Eury's lines, fully and completely taking his side and after Ody passes out and they get to Helios's Island, the lyrics constantly call back to Luck Runs Out although not precisely in the same order. For example:

Luck Runs Out:

Please don't tell me you're about to do what I think you'll do.

You've heard the legends of the island in the sky, this proves they're true

We're in the home of the wind god

We don't know for sure

How many floating islands have you seen before?

This is the home of the wind god.

And what's your plan?

I'm gonna climb to the top and ask 'em for a hand.

Mutiny:

Please don't tell me you're about to do what I think you'll do.

Ody, we're never gonna get to make it home

You know it's true

You don't know that's true

This is the home of the Sun God

But if you kill his cattle, who knows what he'll send?

This is the home of the Sun God

I'm tired, my friend

But we're so close to home, this can't be where it ends.

-----

This continues the entire second half of Mutiny but I’m honestly not a skilled enough musician to recognize every little motif and note. But the two songs feel very similar except that now Eury is the one that can’t hear what Ody is telling him. I hesitate to include this information because it’s not explicitly stated in the musical but the reason he kills the cow in the original is because either the starving crew will survive and can build a temple to Helios in Ithaca or the gods will kill them quickly. Not only would starving be a slow, painful death but it's not a glorious end for soldiers and warriors.

Regardless of whether you choose to include this information in his motivation, it’s clear he’s done. He’s shattered and broken and Ody’s reassurance is too little, too late. The crew is, in his mind, either going to starve to death or die trying to get home and he’s quickly realizing he doesn’t know which is better. He hates that the situation and his relationship with Ody has come to this. He’s no longer angry, just resigned and exhausted. He doesn’t know how to solve their problems and can’t trust that Ody cares enough to try either. So why does he fall back in line so easily when Ody orders the crew to flee?

Because, despite everything, he wants to trust his friend. He wants to go back to when it was the three of them and they trusted each other with no reservations. Which brings us to his last lines in Thunder Bringer.

Eury: Captain?

Ody: I have to see her.

Eury: But we’ll die.

Ody: I know.

I saw a lot of people getting particularly angry at this because he’d brought the wrath of Zeus down on them and is now begging Ody to sacrifice himself instead of the crew. But I don’t read it that way at all. We’ve heard him plead & beg. He pleads firstly Luck Runs Out and begs broken on his knees in Mutiny and this line doesn’t sound like either.

This is resignation.

Mutiny shows us that he’s already given up. He’s ready to die. He’s not begging for his life. The crew questions Ody, reprising the chorus of Just A Man the same way they did when they questioned his decision to kill the Infant. Because that’s what Eury’s asking.

Can you live with the fact you killed us?

Not because he wants to live for himself but because he wants to know if Ody can truly live with the choice he's already made in his heart. At the very end, he seeks reassurance that his last friend will be able to survive to make it home.

For all of them.

In conclusion, Eurylochus is a flawed but entirely human character with a very consistent internal logic throughout and he doesn't deserve to be painted as a conniving, fickle, cowardly friend to Ody because it's abundantly clear he loves the crew and his friend.

#epic the musical #eurylochus #eurylocus epic

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raayllum · 9 months ago

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She Must Pay the Price, or A Drop of Mercy :: A Rayla and Leola Meta

Quick:

You're a young elven girl, and you show mercy and compassion to a human that you definitely weren't supposed to. When it's found out, you're punished, with elves even calling for your execution (6x09, book 1 novelization). Your father does what he can, but there's only so much. You're put on trial. You're found guilty regardless of intent, and only by association. You die for this; you die for them. You're a star. A guiding light. There's even a Great Fall off a precipice (though only one of you hits the ground).

Your name is Leola, or Rayla.

You're the beginning and the end, respectively.

So let's talk about it.

Tests of Love

For years, I had wondered where Aaravos' assessment of "Those who fail tests of love are simple animals. They deserve to be motivated by fear" (2x09) came from, cause you don't drop in a line like that if it's not going somewhere. It's quite a statement and worldview, after all. Now, with Leola's trial, it seems we know.

We can see, then, perhaps that Leola's gift giving was the first test of love — are you willing to break the Natural Law, the Natural Order of things? — to help another? To show another a source of power in order to share, to be compassionate, and in Rayla's case, to be merciful (though we'll get more to that in a minute).

We also know that the love Leola had was powerful and all encompassing:

She didn't care to follow the order set in the stars. Though she was born an immortal being from the Heavens, she loved this world... and all its flaws. Her heart was warm and open.

And she befriended mortals. Animals, elves... and humans.

ETHARI: Who I love, where I love, what I love, are all specific. But to Runaan and those like your parents... love is rooted in all families, all creatures. Souls like that feel called to protect everyone as fiercely as those they hold close. (Bloodmoon Huntress)

Okay, so Leola and Rayla both have big compassionate hearts and befriend creatures from all over the place. So what? So do Callum, Ezran, Soren, and most of our other main good guy characters. Even Claudia to a degree (though she could work on not using magical creatures for spell parts).

Well, specifically, it's because of how they intersect currently more with anyone else on the concept of

Mercy

KOSMO: Daughter of the Moon, yours is a wondrous heart. In a moment of mercy, you sent ripples out into the ocean of time. Ripples that have not yet stilled. (6x05)

Rayla sparing Marcos, as noted in multiple interviews by the creators and by myself in previous metas, is ultimately the inciting incident / lynchpin of the entire series. Without it, there would've been no soulfang proposal or Ez running away to find the egg or any of the number of other elements that had to come together to make achieving peace possible.

While we still have details to discover regarding Aaravos' Fall and development of dark magic, we know that a lack of mercy was ultimately what sent him on his path of vengeance. Leola was not shown mercy, and while it seems there were already "flaws" for an imperfect world, things were (probably) better than they currently are in Xadia in a variety of ways. Then, to kick off the entire Saga, we have Rayla sparing Marcos in a soundtrack literally titled "Mercy" and have Kosmo, seasons and seasons later, spell out directly what a big deal this was for well, the ocean of time.

None of this is to say Rayla can't act out of revenge — she did ("when I first came here, I was on a mission for revenge") and she has ("but I became so obsessed with revenge"), much like Aaravos ("he isn't doing anything out of love, he's doing it for revenge") — but that her general compassion and love for others has always been stronger than her grief or rage, and that even when she had every social and personal reason to, she was and is fundamentally unable to hurt someone innocent.

Even when she's shamed or punished for it by herself or by others. RAYLA: The human looked up at me, and I saw the fear in his eyes. RUNAAN: Of course he was afraid, but you a job to do! (1x01)

EZRAN: Yeah, but then you saw he was scared, and you knew he was a person, just like you. RAYLA: That shouldn't have mattered. I had a job to do. (1x08)

The Cosmic Council — and to a degree, the Silvergrove — say that the reasonings or motivations, the intentions, behind Leola and Rayla's actions do not and should not matter when it comes out to doling 'Justice'. So Leola faces her justice, being literally killed in the one manner that can kill a Startouch elf, and so does Rayla, being metaphorically Ghosted / 'murdered' by her community, regardless.

Neither are enough to ultimately quell their light or their love/power, however.

A Star

RAYLA: That beautiful shining star you just pointed out? We call it Leola's Last Wish. (5x02)

So both Leola and Rayla are stars in season 6, literally and metaphorically respectively. Leola's is more self-explanatory, whereas Rayla's is mostly about the role she has in Callum's life as a guiding light and star. I don't think it's a coincidence, though, that just as Rayla placed Callum on his path of being a primal mage, though, that Leola did the same for humanity. I also don't think it's a coincidence that Callum's love for Rayla restores Callum's own light and agency amid Leola giving humanity the same through light and fire.

It happened long ago, when humans had only just learned to hold fire in their hands without burning. They nurtured their precious primal flames secretly—in the dark of night, beneath shadows and shrouds—as cultivating its glow drew the eyes and ire of monsters. Eventually, for the audacity of their fire, they were hunted, and—though they looked to the stars for salvation—the stars, too, looked down upon them with disdain. Humanity had been given something it was never meant to have. (TDP shorts, Ripples)

In this way, we see the manifestation of a repeating parallel of Rayla representing Leola, a gift giver of life, magic, light, unjustly punished/killed, and Callum representing humanity, looking to the kindest brightest star for guidance, magic, restoration, and salvation if he's just given the chance to grasp it. After all, presumably, Leola's last wish would have something to do with primal magic and humanity, and who represents that better than Callum, with two arcana under his belt and possibly more on the way? With that in mind, I want to return to another quote from earlier but with a different focus on

Ripples

Daughter of the Moon, yours is a wondrous heart. In a moment of mercy, you sent ripples out into the ocean of time. Ripples that have not yet stilled.

The wisest of the humans looked upon the water. His own reflection smiled back at him, and he dared to imagine what such power would feel like in his own hands, should he be allowed to hold it. Imagine, he thought, if I were more than what I am. With a trembling hand he touched the surface of the water. Ripples spread from his fingertips. [...] I hope the stars were watching. I hope they saw it: the moment their perfect reflections turned warped and ruined, churned to chaos by the touch of a single human hand. In this, the humans taught me another lesson. And so I touch the surface of the water. I watch the ripples spread.

Water in TDP is a strange beast, symbolically speaking. There are some more straight forward motifs (reflections, "don't try to control where the river [of life] goes, there's one thing you can know and control: yourself"). For Aaravos, it's connected to deep loss but also his own sense of patience in playing and winning his game, as illustrated above. For Rayla, it's linked to shame, self-reflection, bravery, and loss. Aaravos weeps and creates a sea upon losing Leola; Rayla says goodbye to her family by the lotus pond times three.

We don't know what water represents for Leola. Not distinctly, anyway. The best we can figure though, is that by following the through line of the Rayla and Leola parallels, that the ripples Leola wanted to send out or did send out — not the distortions caused by her father and his grief — are ones that Rayla received, and then continued.

Rayla has always been a foil to Aaravos, and this hasn't changed. She is the one who set Callum on the path initially of being a mage, which put him in Aaravos' machinations as prey; she retrieved his Key; and she's the reason Callum's done dark magic, twice. At the same time, much like the moon, Rayla carries Leola's light as much as she shoulders Aaravos' dark. She literally represents light in Callum's life, helps lead him through the darkness, and him being a primal mage and it's possible growth to other humans is the best possible thing that could've ever happened to Xadia.

Sol Regem says that "no one can save" Xadia or fix what is deeply broken. The Cosmic Council said that Leola had broken the Cosmic order and had to pay the price. Rayla has repeatedly been willing to pay the price for both hers and other's actions in hopes of making things right, of sparing others' pain. Sometimes to her detriment, but—if Rayla as Callum's one Truth could fix the darkness within him, if she's the lynchpin for breaking the Cycle, for bringing back Runaan and fixing her family's souls, in opposing and presenting mercy amid the Council's lack of mercy, in the face of Xadia's violence—

Then Rayla's act of mercy in 1x01, and potentially beyond in S7 with Callum, will be what fixes Xadia.

Leola's gift of magic is what 'broke' Xadia, and her execution is what literally did so, leading to the division of the continent. She wrongly paid the price in the absence of mercy and love. Rayla is therefore her thematic successor — welcomed this time as Light and Truth — as the carrier of Mercy and Love, and she will 'fix' Xadia through her ripples and dynamics. She will mend them back together. There will, at last, be no price to pay.

Misc. Thoughts / Predictions

One thing I was always curious about going forward into future seasons was the prospect of a 'trial' or reunification of the Silvergrove. It felt like a no-brainer the Silvergrove would have to change in order to reflect Runaan's character arc, much the way we see Katolis and the Sunfire elves change to better accommodate the new, more compassionate world order. Pre-S4 a trial felt a little strange as an idea, though post-S4 the parallels it could provide to the Lucia tribunal made more sense about why include either (or both).

However, Leola's trial seemed to hammer home the almost necessity (as this is still a prediction, after all, that may not happen) of Rayla and/or Runaan saying their peace to the Silvergrove leaders. This would be a great opportunity to provide a contrast to the Cosmic Council, reaffirming that Xadia is ultimately better than them because the Moonshadow elves and everyone else can change, and the Cosmic Council seemingly cannot or will not. But I guess we'll have to wait for S7 or beyond (#GiveUsTheSaga) to find out if this'll come to fruition or not.

I also wanted to touch on what we see with Leola ("I'm so scared!") and the repeated emphasis on "recognizing fear as a moment of empathy and personhood" and the horror that can come if you don't have that moment of recognition. This is something I've touched on before most notably as a striking difference between S1 Rayla and S5 Claudia, but I thought it was worth mentioning as S6 added to it specifically with Viren towards Soren and Lissa. This is another point in the "Rayla is an inversion of the Council's lack of mercy" column, as Leola's — a child's fear, and Aaravos willing to pay the price and take her place — earns her no mercy. Rayla, meanwhile, sees someone innocent that she has 'every right' to execute is afraid of her, and that strays her hand; it steadies her sword, and she spares him. Because if someone is afraid of you, it's worth asking yourself why, and what you might want to do instead.

Last but not least I wanted to talk about Leola's parallels to Callum and Ezran as well, since they are very much there (though yet not perhaps to the same extent).

Ezran has Leola's friendliness to animals and soft heart. He too is a child whose death is called for as a means of Justice, and he is granted mercy through Rayla and the discovery of the egg, able to live and grow and help usher in peace. He is, I think, what Leola might've been allowed to be if she'd lived in different times. Callum, meanwhile, carries the gift giving motif through his cube, staff, and tokens he both gives to (moon-phoenix bracelet) and receives (the moon opal necklace) from Rayla, and previous 'human-Leola' magic dynamic. Callum being able to break free fully from Aaravos' and dark magic's control in S7 and turn his eye instead to primal magic will be what helps bring true justice to Leola and hope for humanity / Xadia in righting the Cosmic Council's fundamental wrongdoing. Hopefully, anyway.

Conclusion

I hope you enjoyed this deep dive into some parallels and potential narrative goings-on between Leola and Rayla as characters. TDP loves its historical and ironic layers in TDP (Ez and the Orphan Queen, Viren's arc from S1 to S6) and I think this layered thematic dynamic between the two merciful young girls was a good, brilliant choice by the creative team. I'm excited to see where this thematic thread goes in the future and how it may continue to be woven into the story. As always, thank you for reading, and I'll see you in the next one.

#tdp rayla #tdp leola #tdp meta #tdp spoilers #the dragon prince #she must pay the price #s6 spoilers #multi #arc 1 #arc 2 #s6 #analysis series #analysis #parallels #rayla #leola

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be-ready-when-i-say-go · 2 months ago

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Finding out Joe is lowkey into D&D 🤭

I'm answering this early because I love you and because this is now stuck in my head.

Roll For Initiative--Part 1

Joe’s managed to keep the lock down about his limited knowledge on Dungeons & Dragons. He won’t say he learned about it because of you.

It only takes one text message though for the truth to start to unravel. If slaying dragons and BBEGs isn’t the place to confess feelings, where is?

Joe Burrow x Black!Reader

Series Masterlist

Complete Masterlist

______________________

Your phone shakes against the table. The pencil you've had poised in your hand, eraser end singling out your DM, Jeremiah, drops as you spy the contact name. Burrowed. It's a stupid joke. One that you established with Joe back in his OSU college days, about how he seemed burrowed in, focused and lasered in on proving his move from Ohio was a good one, that he was better than just a back up.

Joe hates that he loves the nickname. You don't use it often to his face, knowing that each time you do he'll roll his eyes, even if he does smile just a little. It's the soft one, where only part of his mouth lifts up high and his eyes soften just a little.

Another text shakes the device.

Burrowed: If you're free of course....the preview cuts off the rest of the message.

"This isn't over," you shoot to Jeremiah. Your college group of friends has reunited for the next 3 days because of a wedding. Though you've managed to stay local, the group of you has spread far and wide.

Jeremiah laughs, holding his hands up. "I wait with baited breath. That important?"

You unlock your phone to read the previous messages. The entire group knows you've been dancing on the edge, waiting for your mother to call you with the results of the latest biopsy, an ongoing saga on whether or not her thyroid is fine or not.

Burrowed: I know this invitation is a little late. But I'd love to catch up, get some dinner tonight or tomorrow.

Burrowed: If you're free of course. I hope your mom's test results come back benign. Let me know if there's anything I can do.

Though you weren't there at LSU for the roller coaster ride of Joe's career, the two of you bonded deeply in your OSU days and your shared Art History course. The class seemed easy, but the constant barrage of dates, artist, cultures proved to be a tough challenger. When Joe wound up sick, a bad case of food poisoning that left him down for a day and a half, he asked you for your notes for the class he missed on the day he returned to class. That's all it took before the two of you begin your friendship--your long winded explanation for your color coded hand written notes and how you'd be happy to type them up for him if he couldn't read your handwriting and slightly not perfectly cooked food.

"Just one second," you return to Jeremiah and the table. Joe's not your mother level of important, but after the particularly challenging season you know he's been a little too inside his own head. You snap a picture of your character sheet and the dice tower, fingers flying over the keyboard. Thank god for autocorrect, you think to yourself as you watch the words flip over time and time again.

Can't do tonight. But I'm free tomorrow. Want to do 7? Pho?

The text lifts, then settles. Delivered listed below the bubble and you set the phone back down. Joe stayed in his own circle and you stayed in yours for the most part. He invited you to games, to a few parties here and there. You guys exchanged numbers, as a part of a group project, and you attempted as best as you two could to take at least one class together each school year. The kind of friendship that felt like it would always dance on something more, but never fully committed to it.

You know that your job in this wedding is just to show up. Kimberly, the soon to be first wife of the group, chose Ohio as the location given all that's here, all the drunken nights, and tears, and joys. She met her fiance at the Denny's she worked on the side during her OSU days. So while you don't have wedding duties, you are doing what you can to help pick people up from the airport, grab last minute items and such when it comes up.

You could skip the dinner tomorrow if need be as you don't want to force Joe to socialize if he's not up for it.

"Now, back to this spell," you start, turning your phone up side down again. "I think given the fact that I am a cleric is a good enough substitute for the fucking silver needed."

Jeremiah laughs. "You said you wanted to play stricter with this one-shot."

"Not that fucking strict," you huff and then review your sheet again. You had to have something else to help get your friends out of this mess. You settle for your cantrip instead and it manages to do enough damage that you can take care of two kobolds threatening your barbarian.

Your phone shakes again, but you don't check it immediately. You're too enthralled with the throw of the dice, spewing witty one liners that you know in any other setting you'd never be able to come up on your own. In the end, your party's left haggard and bloody but with the estranged and hidden daughter of the Ice Queen returned to her people.

"Fuck you, Jeremiah," your party roars, high from the victory of the short campaign.

"Fuck that wizard too!" you laugh. He was a formidable opponent but particularly nasty about your deity of choice and for that, you cannot forgive the old man.

Jeremiah laughs, clapping all the same. "Proud of you guys."

Clean up is relatively short, a shuffling of dice back into bags and papers shuffled together. Your group shuffles out of your apartment with multiple round of hugs and thanks for you hosting the one-shot. Tomorrow and the day after will be a mad dash trying to get everything ready for the wedding on Saturday, but you're thankful that you were able to squeeze in just a little bit of time like this again.

You're especially thankful for the eight seater dining room table that you managed to snag off the curb too. You take the two bags of trash out--pizza boxes, cans of sodas, paper plates, and paper towels stuffed into the bags.

When you settle back into the apartment, flopping onto the couch, you read through the text messages left behind. There's a text message from your favorite clothing brand that you thought you unsubscribed from but apparently you hadn't, a text from Joe, but none from your mother.

Burrowed: I didn't take you as the type for a cleric. Assumed you'd like the chaos of a rogue better. Tomorrow at 7 works. Pho is perfect. See you then!

Your mouth drops. What the fuck did Joe know about D&D? He'd never mentioned it to you previously, even though you definitely mentioned your ventures into the tabletop game back in undergrad. You immediately tap on his contact, before tapping at the icon for a phone call.

"Everything okay?" Joe asks when he answers.

"What the fuck do you know about Dungeons and Dragons?" you return. There's no time for pleasantries or to even answer his own question.

"I know a little something about a lot of things," Joe laughs.

"No, no, you don't get to Joe Cool me and coyly answer. When did this happen?"

"Tell me first if you actually like playing a Cleric?"

"That was in homage to my first ever character, Zebela. I played as her great-great-great-great-great grandchild tonight."

"Uh, I forgot about Zebela. Dwarf right?"

"Yes," you hiss out. "Now when did you pick all this up?"

His laughter is deep and soft. "When you first talked about it, I had another friend of mine into it. I asked him some questions. Listened to you rant about it. Dunno. It sounds interesting. How'd the adventure tonight go?"

"You are blowing my mind, Joseph. You know about D&D." You laugh as you speak but recount to Joe about the perils, the tight wins. He hums and interjects with "ouch!" when you talk about the damage you took. He cheers when you talk about the damage you dealt.

"Sounds like a hell of a time," he returns by the time you finish.

"It was. Did you eat yet today?"

"Yeah, grabbed lunch with Tee and Ja'marr. I'm debating if I really want what was meal prepped or if I want to make a sausage biscuit, like you taught me."

You snort. "That's a struggle meal. You're not struggling anymore."

"I think if I eat any more fucking chicken I'm going to start laying eggs."

"Bawk, bawk," you tease. "Save me a dozen though. Eggs are getting expensive."

Joe snorts, the sound crackling over the receiver. "Will do."

"Have you ever thought about playing? D&D I mean?"

"Yeah, I've thought about it. O-line would absolutely never let me live it down, but I don't really know anyone to hosts it or how to help us set up and stuff."

"I could do it," you offer. Though Joe and you still kept pretty separate worlds, you'd be happy to help. You hadn't DM'd much yourself. You dabbled once and managed to do it well enough. The thing you'd have to work on is building a story that would keep most of the boys focused.

"Let's marinate on it and talk more tomorrow. DM'ing seems like a big ask on your part."

"We can marinate." There's a sizzle in the background, the sound of something hitting a hot pan. "You literally have a chef," you laugh at the sound.

"Fucking sue me. I wanted a biscuit! It's the off season now. I'm allowed to indulge just a little."

"By all means," you laugh, "indulge."

#joe burrow #joe burrow x reader #joe burrow blurb #joe burrow fic #joe burrow imagine #h writes #j.burrow

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meraki-yao · 3 months ago

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EPIC the musical: Athena's Philosophy and Character Development

I have a very different take on Athena and Odysseus' moment during "I can't help but wonder" than the other opinions I've seen. After investigating and thinking about it, I realised I think I have a different understanding on Athena's character.

The take I mainly see about that moment is that Athena and Odysseus switched mindsets. And while yes, their mindsets vastly changed from where they were during My Goodbye, I don't see it as a switch.

See, when it comes to Athena telling Odysseus to kill Polyphemus, it isn't about being ruthless. Ruthlessness was never the focus of Athena's philosophy.

Her philosophy, is absolute logic and rationality.

She is the goddess of wisdom and strategy: her domain is using smarts: planning and plotting. Those things rely on logic. In fact, during her first meeting with Odysseus, the reason she found Odysseus as a potential protege was because he outsmarted her with reverse psychology.

And in order to focus on the logical, factual aspects of situations, you need to be rational. This is what Athena was pushing, as seen in "Have you forgotten to turn off your heart? This is not you" in Warrior of the Mind, and "You’ve grown soft, your dead friends can attest; Put your emotions aside" in My Goodbye.

Empathy is an emotion, and Athena deems that a hindrance.

But then you get to the wisdom saga, and from "We'll Be Fine", we are told that Athena's fall out with Odysseus has haunted her ever since, to the point where she can't sleep. And Telemachus, in turn says that perhaps by helping this old friend, both of their lives can be better. Note that at this point, Telemachus doesn't know that Athena's friend is actually his dad, all he knows about this friend is what Athena told him.

And that is an act of compassion, an emotional act.

Yet somehow, that brings comfort to Athena, so she does as he suggests, and pleads for Odysseus' life.

And I've mentioned part of this in my essay on God Games, but if we look at each level Athena completes, we can see that for the five Gods, she uses logic to persuade all of them, but almost fails on Aphordite's level. Aphrodite, the Goddess of Love, which is an emotion.

But when her rationality and strategy enraged Zeus, she can't do anything in the face of his anger, because he won't listen to reason.

Then she thinks of Odysseus and Telemachus.

And uses the thing she learnt from them: emotion.

Her final plea to Zeus, is nothing more than "Let him go, please". There's no elaboration or explanation or rebuttal. It's just four words.

But she's desperate, and sad for her friend.

And that's what convinced Zeus to help. Not as the king of Gods, but as a father fulfilling his daughter's request.

If we look at it step by step: Athena's sympathy and affection for Odysseus led to her final lines of God Games, and Zeus' sympathy and love for his daughter led to him eventually agreeing.

Odysseus was freed because of the empathy of two Gods.

I truly think this moment was what fully changed Athena's worldview.

So when we get to Athena and Odysseus' reunion, I don't see it as Athena asking for anything from Odysseus. I understand it as her reflecting: "If we all held each other with a bit more empathy", it turns out that at the end of the day, the best way to resolve conflict is empathy and love. That overrides any logic or strategy.

Odysseus, despite everything, agrees that this is the best world for everyone. All his ruthlessness and rage in beating Poseidon and killing the suitors came from his unending love for his family, if anything he fully embraced pure emotionality in those two battles. He just doesn't have it in him to make the whole world see it like he used to.

This is actually Athena and Odysseus coming to an agreement.

#epic the musical #epic athena #athena #epic odysseus #odysseus #epic telemachus #telemachus #epic thoughts #epic the musical thoughts #epic analysis #epic the musical analysis #meraki essay #epic zeus #zeus #jorge rivera herrans

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geese-in-a-frock-coat · 1 year ago

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What's your evidence for Watts and Murdoch being autistic? (I totally agree btw)

Hello, internet stranger. Buckle up cause I've thought too hard about this.

Ok disclaimer I have not really sat down and watched the whole thing for a hot minute. Its past nine, you're just gonna have to trust me this one.

Credentials: Mega autisitc

Murdoch:

Does not understand social conventions. Like this ones pretty obvious. He doesn't understand why people keep dogs. Raises his kid in a completely non traditional way. Frequently doesn't get why people care about something that he sees as not being worth it (sports and popular trends and so forth).

Doesn't like small talk

Cares about justice NOT the law. The thing that really makes me think he's autistic is that he cares about things being just and is prepared to break the rules to do so. The main example being he lets that woman out of prison depsite the fact that he could go down for it. He turns a blind eye to Watts and lets Giles go even though they're both criminals in the eyes of the law. And on the flipside he sends George to prison because I think that's what he percieves as justice (if anyone's seen the bridge this really reminds me of Saga at the end of season 2)

Sees through hierarchy. There are so many epsiodes that play out like "I think Mr X is the killer." "But Mr x is extrememly important and influential!" "I don't care he killed her."

Interest in science and inventing. Look I know we joke about stereotypes but like, its a stereotype for a reason. He builds things with an autistic brain. He uses pattern repition through learning about previous inventions and applying them to his own devices.

Visual learner. This is not autism exclusive but he solves cases in such a unique way that it screams ND to me. Murdoch often literally builds a case. They make a joke about clue/cludo but he literally has to make the model of a house to picture where everyone is. He makes all those model of the ladies that were covered in metal. And let us not forget his famous chalk board.

Buzzkill. I say this as a long-term sufferer of leaves parties at 8:45 syndrome. He does 'boring hobbies' which autistic people often have because we don't feel the need to take up traditional ones.

Remember that scene where he attempts to read out his and Julia's book and just absolutely cannot tell that no one gives a single toss about anything he's saying.

Wears the same thing for nearly 20 years. If it ain't broke don't fix it.

Refused to let his wife cut his hair because he didn't want to change from the lady who used to do it.

breather. Part 2: watts.

Cannot read social cues: Frequently insults other station house four people. Pretty sure he called someone's baby ugly but I might have hallucinated that. "You're face is symetrical." Got chucked out of station house because he didn't get on with any of them

Disregard for societal norms: doesn't feel the need to be polite or tactful with anyone or to really follow police protocol. Acts very 'improper' a lot of the time. Only got one shoe shined that one time because that was all he needed. Puts his feet on the sofa, lies on the desk and leans over tables.

Makes limited eye contact.

The man will fidget with anything: Look this is clearly a character decision from Daniel Maslany but its an autistic character decision if ever I saw one. We're talking pencils, cups, fabric, anything. If it is on the set, he will find a way to play with out. And I don't normally like to assign autistic traits onto behaviour implemented by actors but it's basically stimming at this point. I dare you to keep an eye on this man's hands for any scene and I garuntee you they will not stay still.

Disorganised, but not: He always has tiny bits of paper and whatnot in his pockets but always seems to know where everything is. organised but doesn't have to time to be tidy. Same whenever we see his flat, it's equally disorganised. as an autistic person I find things end up all over the place because I don't have the capacity to keep them in order.

Bad handwriting and can't spell

Physicality: Most autistic people will have some sort of problem with co-ordination. He walks uneavenly. He has an odd posture. I always think about that scene where he steps in sick and moves around like a dear on ice. He's clumsy, can't sit straight and has a strange posture.

can't think when being interrupted

can't focus on two things at once.

George realised he'd been possessed by aliens because he was acting normally.

pretzels: dare i say safe food. If not, they're bland, usually the same everytime and take little mental effort to consume.

Strong sense of justic: see william murdoch.

SPECIAL MENTIONS:

Dr Emily Grace: didn't become a doctor becuase she didn't want to adopt a 'cheerful bedside manor.'

Dr Julia Ogden: Married to Murdoch (like calls to like) and sees through the bullshit of victorian society.

Susannah Murdoch: has those two as parents and I have the full confidence of genetics on this one.

In conclusion:

There's probably so much more I could talk about that I just don't remember because there is a lot more of this show than most others. But anyway. Murdoch is autistic because he has to be for the show to work and becuase he often comedic-foils far too close to the sun. And Watts is autistic because there is no way on God's green earth a man who stands like that is neurotypical.

Thank you, internet stranger, I am here all week.

#sorry this is word vomit #there is a reason i shouldn't try and be funny on the internet #murdoch mysteries #cbc murdoch #cbc mm #william murdoch queer icon #william murdoch #llewellyn watts is autistic #llewellyn watts #dr julia ogden #dr emily grace #autistic stuff

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beauty-and-passion · 4 months ago

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And finally... the Ithaca Saga

We did it. We reached the end.

And we did it this year, in 2024! I suppose the moral of the story is: if you're truly passionate about something (and have big plans), you can do anything.

And by "anything", I don't mean just "finishing the concept album": I mean fighting against weather, bad luck and probably the gods themselves, to do what you planned.

I imagined everything, except that Mr. Jorge's plan for the final stream of his entire album, was to go to the goddamn island of Ithaca and stream there.

But, you know, it was right. It felt right. It was a very poetic choice, to bring a modern version of the Odyssey back home. To let the musical reach its artistic birthplace. And it's even more impactful that it wasn't just Odysseus' voice to (figuratively) return home: it was the entire story, through the voices of all artists involved.

However, since it's the Odyssey we're talking about, the trip to Ithaca couldn't have been simple either: what kind of boring story would it be, if everything went smoothly from start to end?

Greece's weather is overall warm, even in winter. However, there are the occasional storms/typhoons/rainfalls that last for a couple days and drown or destroy parts of the cities. And Jorge faced them not at the end of his trip, not in the middle: at the beginning, just in time to stop him from reaching Ithaca too easily.

And I believe this is all Ithaca's influence, because something similar happened to my father and brother. Last summer, they were supposed to visit Ithaca as well, but first found no available ferries, then the rain started to pour down, their car died on the nearby island, there was no available mechanic and when they finally found one, their car got fixed just in time for my brother to go to Athens and get his flight back home.

Sooo... it looks like Ithaca doesn't want visitors at all, no matter if it's summer or winter, and it does everything to keep people away - or at least, to make them have a small personal Odyssey before reaching it. Also because, according to the last shorts from Jorge, it looks like the weather changed into the usual warm, greek temperatures now. And he seems to enjoy his stay too, so I suppose the true obstacle is just reaching the island.

But enough about Ithaca, let's talk about Ithaca: there were huge expectations for this Saga. This is the final one, this is supposed to wrap up Odysseus' story and the last loose threads.

And it does. It takes its time to wrap up the last characters and it does it organically and coherently. There are no OOC moments - and this is a huge point for me, because my main complaint in the last Saga was that Odysseus moved too quickly from "let's try to discuss" to "stabbing time": here you can see and understand why he gets so angry and he even takes a few lines to further clarify his emotions.

The pace of this Saga is good too: there are no dead moments and the songs move smoothly from one event to the next. It surely helps that they cover a period of 24 hours more or less, but still.

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The Challenge: this is the first time we actually hear Penelope. Not the one from Odysseus' memories, not a siren, not a vision, but the real one.

And the real one is truly the perfect woman for a clever man like Odysseus: she's intelligent, she's resourceful, she reads the signs and does the right things to buy more time. That's what she did in the Odyssey too, so it's nice to see this trait of her character here as well.

And even though the events here happen for slightly different reasons (in the Odyssey, the bow challenge was just another attempt to buy more time, while here it's something Penelope proposes right after the storm, as if she feels things are going to change very soon and her husband is coming back), it still doesn't sound forced or unnatural. It fits Epic's narrative, without damaging or going against the spirit of the original work. That's how you do a good rewrite.

One last thing about Penelope: I love how, with one single song, we can see her pride, her strength, her cleverness... and her love too. She herself says she didn't expect to end up like this, but for love, she's ready to do anything. Even waiting 20 years for a husband she doesn't even know if he's still alive, buying him time in every possible way and keeping on hold 108 dangerous, younger men who need just an excuse to rise against her and her family.

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Hold Them Down: what did I say about that excuse?

Jokes aside, this is some powerful villain song and I ADORE it. The rhythm? Great, majestic, terrifying. The drums and the chorus are chilling.

But even more than them, it's the entire song, to be terrifying. And not because of its themes: it's because of the details.

Antinous doesn't just say "We will kill Telemachus and rape Penelope": he describes step by step what he wants to do. He presents a clear, precise plan of what he wants to do and how he wants to do it.

That's what makes it so chilling: how careful he is with the details. How he pondered about everything. His willingness to do all the things he says, without an ounce of doubt or fear.

And what's even more terrifying, is how Antinous' words are welcomed by the chorus of the other Suitors. There is no coldness, no shock, no fear: there is this palpable, growing excitement, that grows stronger the more he describes his plan. The chorus accompanies his words, anticipates them eagerly: they cannot wait to hear what he wants to do next.

And when Antinous says Penelope will be at their mercy after Telemachus' death, silence drops for a moment and the line: "And then we'll" is welcomed by pure silence. This perfectly shows how all Suitors held their breath, for one second, waiting for Antinous to say it out loud, to push his plan further and say what they were all thinking: without a man in the house, they could've had access to the queen's bedroom and body. They were waiting to hear it. They wanted, needed to hear more.

This is how you make a great villain song. This is how you build a terrifying villain: it's not just Antinous, who can stir up an entire crowd, by pushing on their primordial instincts. But it's the crowd itself, that welcomes the terrible images he proposes, because they were already in their minds. They were already thinking all of that: all they needed was someone to propose it out loud.

Of course Odysseus goes into full rampage mode after that: who wouldn't?

One last detail I appreciated a lot: the allusion about how the prince was on a diplomatic mission. Sure he was, that's how Odyssey starts: Telemachus leaves Ithaca to search for more news about his father, visits Sparta, Menelaus tells him about the Troyan horse and so on. It was a nice reference.

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Odysseus: a song better known as "Odysseus cleans his house from 20 years of filth".

I've already talked about the first lines and I appreciate them a lot, not just because they further clarify Odysseus' thoughts and actions, but also because they imply he spent some time in Ithaca before this moment, enough to see how the Suitors treated his palace. There's a huge lack of Argo, the only dog who lived something like 20+ years and died right after seeing his owner one last time, but I suppose that his dog's death would've sent him into ultraviolence mode instantly.

I lovelovelove the ensemble chanting Odysseus' name. It's solemn, it's ineluctable, it reminds me of old church hymns and I am a sucker for that stuff.

But I am also a very bad person, so when I listen to Eurymachus saying "hey, what if you spare us and welcome the world with open arms instead" and he gets slaughtered with a "no" as a reply, I laugh.

Yes, I am a bad person.

Okay, fine, we can acknowledge how this wasn't what Polites meant with open arms and how no one has been able to fully understand his mentality... but also, it works perfectly to show how Odysseus changed. In the past, he would've been tricked by these words - and it would've led to him losing more people he loves.

But after going through so much shit, he's not willing to trust others anymore. The time of open arms is gone forever. As he says, "And as long as you're around / My family's fate is left unknown".

And so, it's ruthlessness time. Because, as Poseidon told him, ruthlessness is mercy upon ourselves. And Odysseus would find peace, only if he gets rid of all the dangers around.

Because come on, we know the Suitors would've found a way to still try to kill or hurt him and/or his family. They don't play fair, they said themselves. Sparing them would've only hurt Odysseus in the long run.

And if we consider the time period, killing all the opponents was all Odysseus could do, to regain control over Ithaca.

Think about it: he has been away for 20 years, leaving the island without an adult male ruler. Of course this led all other, younger men to become restless and prideful and do things they would never do, without a strong leader: like trashing the leader's palace or trying to hurt his family.

Odysseus' only way to regain control was to show everyone he was still the strongest. And the only way he could do it, was to get rid of all the people who were undermining his authority. This way, he got rid of the dangerous ones and taught everyone else a lesson: do not even try to oppose my authority again, because I am still the strongest man of this land - and therefore, the only leader.

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I Can't Help but Wonder: so, right after showing everyone he was still the ruler and the stronger and so ruthless, Odysseus takes his time to softly listen to his son and tell him how much he loves him.

No, I am not crying, I got this song stuck in my eye.

But seriously: the softness, the love, the affection he holds for his son. And how this is all beautifully portrayed through Jorge's voice.

I know others already said it, but the way he modulates his voice is incredible. He really sounds older here, an old man talking to this young boy who is so confused and full of doubts about his own strength... and like the father figure Telemachus always wanted, Odysseus reassures him: he's sure his son is strong, he understands his pain and the troubles he experienced. And he loves him, with the unconditional love a father has for his child.

I said I am not crying.

The Athena part has been a surprise: honestly, I feared Jorge forgot and we would never see a closure for them, but we actually got it!

And it was a very good one: Athena asks if there is a world where empathy is stronger than fighting. A world where people can understand each other more and not always resort to violence and ruthlessness.

There's an implicit invitation in her words: would Odysseus help her pursue this world? Would he still be her warrior and work for this new, greater tomorrow?

And Odysseus refuses. He's too old, too tired. This world is too far beyond his reach. We are still trying to reach it and we are getting glimpses of it in our everyday lives.

Athena, thanks to her immortality, can live long enough to see this far-away future, but Odysseus? Maybe in the past, when he was younger, he would've loved to see it. Now he's had enough of adventures. All he wants is to finally see his wife again.

And Athena proves her growth, by that simple "very well". You can hear a smile in her tone. She's not angry at him, she's not resentful: Odysseus made his choice and she's okay with it. Their paths divide forever, not with bitterness but with understanding.

__________________

Would You Fall in Love with Me Again: better known as "I am not crying, I said I am not, I just got the Odyssey stuck in my eye".

Odysseus reveals his wife all the awful things he did, he insists he's not the same man - Tiresias told him too, he's not the same kind and gentle husband he was and he will never be anymore: he's a man marked by hardships, by the war, by the world.

By saying it, he reminds me of the war veterans, the people who faced horrors and survived, to come back as changed people. Odysseus is one of them: the war left a mark on him and the following 20 years deepened that mark, made new ones, scars and terrors that will haunt him forever.

So of course he's not the same and he will never be: life and its hardships changed him too much to come back to the naive, younger man he was.

And yet, despite everything, Odysseus is still the same man. And Penelope proves it, through the bed trial. Again, I love how it has been used here: in the Odyssey, it was Penelope's way to be sure the weird beggar-looking guy who just killed everyone truly was her husband. Here it's her way to prove to him first that yes, he still is her husband. He may be rougher, more ruthless, filled with more regrets and anger than before... but he's still him. And she doesn't care what he did: all she cares about is that he's finally back.

Does that make Penelope a bad person too? Personally, I think it makes her more human. She spent 20 years imprisoned in her own house, with 108 possible predators trashing her place, desperately trying to buy more time for a husband she didn't even know if he was still alive, all while trying to hold the predators down as long as possible, so they wouldn't hurt her or Telemachus. Can we really blame her, if she doesn't care about what her husband did to come back, as long as he's finally back?

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A truly passionate project

Epic the musical is a project overflowing with love. Every artist, every voice, every song is filled with passions and emotions and they shine here, in the final Saga, more than ever. Jorge's voice has been incredible, the way he went from sounding like an old father, to a younger man again. How we shifted from love and affection, to anger.

Penelope? Amazing, brilliant, incredible. All female voices are A+ and she's no exception.

The instrumentals? Always on point, they highlight the emotions and the mood of every song perfectly.

All the artists? Incredibly fitting, superb voices. Each of them did an amazing job with their characters, each of them brought their own spin to it and made them iconic. I don't think we'll easily forget characters like Hermes, Circe, Calypso, Athena, Scylla, Tiresias or Zeus. I know I won't.

And yes, I will fondly keep this version of the Odyssey close to my chest. It's so hard to find good modern versions, now that I found one, I won't forget it so easily.

__________________

The end?

The concept album is done, but that doesn't mean Epic is over. Jorge already said he wants to make videogames and, hopefully, give the musical some live adaptation.

So it's now right to say this is the end: this is the first step of a bright future for this series. And I personally can't wait for what it will bring.

In the meantime, as always, do not forget to stream the Ithaca Saga (and the whole musical for that matter), support Jorge and show love to all the people involved: they deserve it. Every last bit of love. It would be only fair, considering how much love and commitment they poured into this project.

That's why I would like to thank them all again for their hard job. It has been a truly wonderful journey and I can't wait for what 2025 will bring them - and us.

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#epic the musical #epic the ithaca saga #the ithaca saga #the challenge #hold them down #odysseus #i can't help but wonder #would you fall in love with me again #epic odysseus #epic telemachus #epic penelope #epic suitors #I LOVE this musical #jorge rivera herrans #he deserves the world #can't wait to hear more from him #this is my last post for 2024 #see ya in 2025

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thinking-through-some-things · 3 months ago

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What do you mean by the women from epic the musical was poorly handled? Can you explain? I’m interested bc I thought that too

ho boy, let's see.

there's definitely a general feminist critique to be had about how few women are in the musical and how small their parts are. obviously i realize the musical primarily follows the leading man and his male crew because that's just how the odyssey works. but it's still a conversation worth having, especially since there are ways to make the existing female characters better. the decision to base this on the odyssey is still a choice.

i don't have much to say about most of the monsters/goddesses. aeolus and scylla are fine. circe is okay, and she actually gets a few songs. personally i think god games should just be cut entirely; it's just athena justifying everything odysseus has done. hera is fine. i don't like how athena stops talking to aphrodite once ares shows up; the line that convinces her is "tell your lover that a broken heart can mend," which is directed at ares.

not mentioning anticlea until she's already dead means her death doesn't really have the weight it should. he's desperate to get back to penelope and telemachus, so it just feels like he forgot about his mom, which makes that tragedy feel a little unearned. he should be just as concerned to get back to her as he is the other two, which means he should mention her whenever he sings about them in the first act. then it would actually matter more when we find out she's dead.

the rest is under a read more because i wrote a lot about athena, and because i need to give a trigger warning for sexual assault for my other points.

athena is clearly the strongest female character and is positioned to be a foil to odysseus. that being said, i didn't really follow her shift in philosophy - going back to look at the lyrics it's because she blames herself for teaching him to be cruel? the goodbye at the start is weird - she's mad at him for not being ruthless, but really the problem is that he's arrogant - which is still something she could chastise him for. idk. either way i don't think her evolution was explored well at all - she basically just changes her mind because she misses him, not because she has actually seen anything to suggest mercy is good. and it's weird that she's only at the beginning, in the wisdom saga, and at the very end. her stuff isn't terrible, but it needs to be better distributed throughout the musical so there can be an evolution. give her one more song towards the end of act one, break up the wisdom saga so her story feels like it's part of the musical instead of a weird distraction in the middle, and actually show us why she starts to think mercy is good. as is her character is too reliant on odysseus in a way that really hurts that the story. bringing up telemachus earlier and exploring that relationship, or penelope and ithica, gives you a chance for athena to see something that helps her change her mind. (i have more to say about her story but that's just about fixing the plot. i think i've made my point here.

okay trigger warning for real.

calypso is really weirdly done. she has one song where she's pressuring him to be with her, and then a song where she refuses to apologize for "unrequited love" or something. odysseus is upset with her and struggling with ptsd in the first song, and then says he loves her in the second. it feels like the musical wants you to have an overall favorable impression of her. there's a lot of discussion about whether or not this is a case of sexual assault in the fandom posts i've seen, but i don't think that's something the musical is discussing. if anything, it takes the stance that it isn't, at least in this version, and that calypso is just some sad girl who wants to be loved. that being said, i've seen some pretty disgusting hatred directed towards calypso in those posts - not clear if it's for the original version, this one, or if there's any difference. either way, the musical needs to decide if calypso is bad/problematic or if she's good/misunderstood, and both of her songs need rewriting. (there's also something to be said about her being the only visibly black female character, but i don't know much about the actual actors for the musical so i'll leave this be for now. but that did stick out to me while watching the animatics.)

i have very mixed opinions about the sirens. the imagery of a group of men standing over and brutalizing a group of women as they beg for their lives was pretty heavy. i don't hate it - it very much sells the idea that the men have become monsters. however, it really bothers me that it basically just. happens. and then we move on. odysseus agonizes over so many choices, but this one seems like it was easy for him, and he doesn't suffer any guilt over it. no one challenges it. so overall it just comes off as a reason to brutalize women, which leaves a sour taste in my mouth. i wish we'd at least get pushback from some of the crew so there's at least some conversation about how maybe this isn't 100% justified. instead, the only mention of the sirens is in god games, where... apollo gives a half-hearted argument about how the sirens sing catchy songs. the other gods at least have a point. and with all of this, athena's retort just feels very victim-blame-y to me. overall, i think there's a way to keep the stuff with the sirens in - but there needs to be more delicacy in how the whole thing is handled.

and finally, penelope. she's probably the worst-written female character in the musical. she exists to 1) be odysseus's motivation/prize, and 2) assure odysseus that he's actually a good person and sure, every terrible thing he did was totally fine, no issue. her first song, which isn't until the last saga, just 1) tells us she's sad, and 2) gives us odyssey plot. the challenge doesn't really do anything to the musical's plot, so you might as well cut it. and her only other song is the finale, where she assures odysseus she loves him and never doubted him and she has no qualms over anything he did because she's a Strong Woman so she still loves him unconditionally. also the bit about the bed is confusing. it's clearly only in there because of the odyssey, and it makes no sense for the musical. penelope has no character in this musical.

(i acknowledge this is a bit hypocritical, but i would actually cut the actual penelope out of the musical. the mentions and cameos of odysseus's idea of her, and the bit with the sirens, can stay, but actual penelope never shows up. i would lean into the idea of her being his prize in a way that leaves you a little unsettled. but also i think odysseus should be the bad guy in the end, so.)

and finally, i hate the decision to introduce the threat of the suitors gang-raping penelope. we already know the suitors aren't great. they're demanding penelope marry one of them. they beat up the kid. there's no need to evoke such a graphic image; i felt sick the first time i heard it, and i don't even have experience with/trauma related to sexual assault. the only point of this song is to justify odysseus slaughtering the suitors, because actually they're all terrible, horrible people. which again just weakens the idea that odyssseus is some kind of monster, because this very intentionally makes him look like a hero. between the decision to downplay the idea of circe or calypso sexually assaulting odysseus (both interpretations popular in what fandom posts i have seen) alongside the brutal violence perpetrated against the sirens and the intentional addition of a whole song about gang-raping penelope, the musical has an uncomfortable focus on violence against women. it's gratuitous and serves no purpose.

#epic the musical critical #anti epic the musical

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zuko-always-lies · 5 months ago

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You post a lot criticising Zuko. Do you like Zuko or not?

(genuine q)

Well, let me break that down a bit:

Do I think we should have sympathy for Zuko?

I think as a 16 year old abuse victim he deserves a lot of sympathy and should get support.

Would I enjoy being around him?

No, I think the Zuko we see is a deeply unpleasant person and I doubt I would enjoy it if I were around him. However, I suspect I would also find Azula, Mai, Ty Lee, and Toph quite unpleasant to be around too, so that's hardly unique to Zuko.

Do I think Zuko is an interesting character?

I think Book 1 Zuko is actually quite interesting and in his own way quite likeable, even if he's a terrible person. Book 1 is where Zuko's writing peaks for me.

Beyond that, I honestly think Zuko becomes much more boring. The writers started leaning entirely on having viewers closely emotionally identify with Zuko and feel personal emotional catharsis when he "achieves redemption." If you don't, Zuko becomes much more boring and the flaws in his writing become much more apparent.

I also think Zuko isn't a particularly interesting or unique character in general. Azula, Ty Lee, and even Mai all manage to be way more interesting and unique than Zuko, despite getting vastly less character development time. At their core, Zuko's arc and themes amount to rejecting an abusive father in favor of a better surrogate father, which feels pretty standard to be honest. By contrast, I can think of only one character the least like Azula in any Western media, Miles Vorkosigan from the Vorkosigan Saga.

Honestly, the most interesting thing about Zuko is analyzing the difference between how the narrative frames him verses what his actions actually suggest about who he really is. That's probably why I write so many "Zuko critical" posts, because I find analyzing the difference interesting.

Do I think Zuko's arc was well-written?

No. The writers were very good at tugging at the heartstrings but beyond that I think "Zuko's redemption arc" is not nearly as good as people make it out to be. In particular, the way that the narrative after Book 1 stops holding him accountable for anything he does weakens his arc badly. That, along with making Iroh the center of Zuko's arc at all costs, made things drastically worse than the original writing plans for Zuko.

Do I think Zuko is the morally pure perfect Firelord the narrative tries to sell him as?

The finale tries to present him that way, but it falls flat for me. Zuko is a very badly flawed person who never addressed most of his flaws, and he's not the least bit suited to be Firelord. The narrative needs him to be the perfect, rightful prince who will redeem the Fire Nation from darkness, and if Zuko had been written differently and his arc had been taken in a different direction, he could be that, but he's not. I could never buy the person we see at the end of the show being a good ruler, and I could never buy him being happy as a ruler.

Could Zuko be an interesting character?

Hell yes. If the narrative had been less prone to gloss over Zuko's many flaws, and more inclined to force him to address them and deal with the consequences of his actions, he could be very interesting. Even if the narrative was willing to seriously acknowledge Zuko's flaws without having him ever improve on them, things would be more interesting. The Zuko-Azula relationship is actually super-interesting if you think deeply about it, but you need to ignore everything about how the narrative frames them for it to be interesting. "Good boy tormented by evil demon psycho younger sister" is boring as hell.

#Zuko #Zuko critical #I guess?

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hopeforchanges · 1 month ago

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Remember when Deborah Chow was like "this is a love story" lol I wonder what makes people see it, realize it, what is THE moment in the SW saga that makes people go "this is a love story" since there's no official acknowledgement in the text, all we have is breadcrumbs in the subtext.

I do remember lol

Well my friend, most of the most beautiful things in life are left unsaid, but boy what glorious crumbs we have in the subtext with this ship. Can't speak for Deborah Chow, but the first time it hit me - that this is indeed a love story - was when I saw Anakin raging to Padmé, screaming and ugly-crying and throwing things about how everything is Obi-Wan's fault in aotc.

Cause let me tell you, I've never said goodbye to my weird codependent relationship on a landing platform readying myself to go to arrest an asthmatic cyborg while said codependent relationship looked at me with 'please don't go" googly eyes. I have never screamed at my codependent relationship how he fucking ruined a mystical energy field that surrounds us and penetrates us or something and how I loved him but fuck him he should have known better.

But standing with eyes wide, mouth open, unable to say or do or even move anything, listening to someone I care about yell and rage and scream and cry and throw things about how this one person ruined everything in their life because they're this and that and not what they need them to be, and they never listen, they never understand, they hold.me.back.

Oh. Honey. I've been that girl. I've been Padmé. I've listened and watched and stood, shocked, aghast, while a person tore themselves apart because of this one relationship they don't have a word for - they don't know what the word is, because love is too much of a taboo, it's too raw and too true and too pure and too narrow and too much.

Long story short, that was the moment I realized - oh shit. This is a love story. The characters may not even realize, maybe George didn't fully realize it either. Although based on rots novel which he approved, I'd say, he did. He does.

I'm glad so many of us do.

#hope answers #hope musings #obikin #Thank you for this beautiful ask annie #Know that cutaway scene in family guy when Stewie's at a Kid Rock concert #And someone has a heart attack and a woman yells 'oh my god is anyone here a doctor???!!!'#And Stewie's like “no FUCKING WAY someone's a doctor here”#Well #*Hope In a very poor imitation of Stewie's gay British accent*:#NO FUCKING WAY WAS THE ”perhaps it's a matter of whether you love Obi-Wan Kenobi more than you love your wife“ LINE A COINCIDENCE #Even the gays were like ... what the fuck #Yes that's a rots novel line my friends #For those of you in the back #Palpatine's line to be exact #The only guy in all known universes who knew back in 2000s and called it out to Anakin's stupid stupid face #That's why he's the goat

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aevellewritessometimes · 3 months ago

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So I'm insane and also multifixating, so here's my attempt at linking TOUCHSTARVED characters to songs from EPIC.

Note: Since little of everyone's backstories is known as of now, I'm going to throw in a decent amount of theory/speculation. Also, "linking" could mean anything from a whole song to part of a song to just the general vibes of a song

The Challenge + Vere

Darts again yippee.

Okay. So I think that it's likely that during Vere's route, once Feelings have been established, that Vere is gonna have to keep those feelings hidden in order to keep the Senobium from using MC against him.

Now, along with whatever it is they have him doing this time, he has to keep up a facade and buy MC time as they work to free him.

Who know what lengths he'll have to go through to keeo up the act and buy them time. But in the meantime, he'll be waiting.

Hold Them Down + Leander

Please do not let the fact that I had at least one Leander speculation written down for each saga trick you into thinking that he isn't my least favorite of the main five. Now onto yet another Leander speculation.

Putting emphasis on the "Can't you guys see we're being played?", "This is how they hold us down", "Where in the hell is our pride and our rage?", "Here and now there's a chance for action, here and now we can take control, here and now burn it down to ashes, channel the fire inside your soul!"

A little while back, I found a "Leander is a revolutionary" theory. Unfortunately I haven't been able to find it since, but that's kinda what I'm going with for this one. If anyone knows what I'm talking about, please tag me so I can link it here.

Picture this: Lowtown is tired of the suffering and neglect put on them by the Senobium. Leander is well aware of this. He has been for a while.

For years, he's been gaining the trust and adoration of Lowtown. Tirelessly working for free to try and alleviate at least a few of their problems.

But now, he knows the Senobium's weak spot. And it's time for the locals to show their appreciation for what Leander has done for them all this time. And he knows exactly what he needs to say to get them all riled up...

Odysseus + All Five

Is this just me manifesting a scene where the chosen LI goes absolutely ape shit in MC's defense on every route? Yes, it absolutely is.

I have a lot of thoughts but no clue how to coherently express them, so instead I'm just gonna list each line that made me think of a character.

"For twenty years I've suffered": Vere, except he has suffered a hell of a lot longer than that.

"I. Have had. Enough.": Vere again, except now he's about to fuck thses bitches up.

"Somewhere in the shadows lies an agile deadly foe": Once again, I think of Vere. But I also think of Mhin.

"You don't understand it, this man plans for every fight!": Leander, maybe. Could also apply to Mhin, if you ignore the word "man"

"He's using the darkness to hide his approaches": Vere, my beloved

"We're empty-handed, up against an archer": Mhin is a hunter. Surely they know how to use a bow, right?

"We know these halls, the odds can be tilted" "You don't think I know my own palace? I built it!": Vere. Sure, the Senobium tower is not a palace, and Vere certainly didn't build it and doesn't own it, but I'm sure he's been there the longest, and therefore knows it very vell. Also, if the theories going around about Kuras once being affiliated with the Senobium are correct, there's a chance he might know the tower's halls (?) as well.

"...Let's have open arms instead-" "No.": Mhin, Kuras, and Leander. They finally decided to throw away whatever was left of their moral code(s).

Just the general vibe of the whole song: Vere and Ais. It would be the perfect background music for them as they just go ham on whoever decided to play FAFO with them.

I Can't Help But Wonder + ???

Yeah I've got nothing for this one, sorry.

Would You Fall In Love With Me Again? + All Five

Just wanna see the LIs do something that they might consider to be truly unforgivable (yes, even Vere) and doubt that MC would continue to love them, only for MC to respond by declaring that they still love them anyway, and always would until they died.

Bonus points if MC sounds very exasperated before doing so.

(More bonus points if Vere specifically just kinda goes "oh, duh" afterwards because I'm pretty sure MC already knew exactly what they were getting into)

#touchstarved game #touchstarved theory #leander #vere #ais #kuras #mhin #epic the musical mention

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be-it-so · 5 months ago

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Opinion on Epic musical?

Thanks for the ask!

Well, when i only started to listen to Epic, I liked it very much. I loved the songs, i loved the way Greek mythology was treated, the characters, and even epic Odysseus's arc with this monster stuff.

I was pretty okay with the changes in the story I guess it was because I've first read the odyssey just a couples of weeks before I found epic so I didn't have this much attachment to the story of the Odyssey and Odysseus himself as I do now, so changes in it didn't bother me this much. Like, yeah, I would prefer if they didn't whitewash Circe like this and if they made lore accurate sirens and other things like this, but overall, I liked the way the whole setting was made.

My first big problems began with the wisdom saga when suddenly gods started to act not only like humans but also like clear heroes or villains. I really didn't like Athena in this saga, the way she was presented as very human and also i really didn't like all of this "I've no respect for bullies/ Those who impose their will", it was just too much of a "good guy" speech, if you understand what i mean and very not Athena-like.

And, yeah, of course the way Zeus was treated in this saga made me so sad, because he again was simply reduced to "bad arrogant and vile tyrant" and I'm so tired of this trope. Zeus is so much more than this, like, yeah, he can be vile, he can be arrogant, but he is never so pointlessly bad. He can threaten other gods (and make this threatens true in some cases), but he is not doing it just because he can nor just because something did not please him, he is keeping an order this way, he shows others that he is the king of the gods (who he is) and nobody should challenge his authority and etc. It is not about pleasing his ego. it's about ruling and keeping everyone under his control.

There are a lot things to say about Zeus and his depictions in modern media, but for now let me just say, that he would never smite his favorite daughter, who he forgave so many things and let her do so many things that it almost funny compared to his attitude towards some other gods Ares, just because she followed his orders and did exactly what he told her to.

So i was disappointed, especially considering that I loved how Athena and Zeus were presented in previous sagas. Zeus in "Horse and the infant" was wonderful, Athena in "warrior of the mind" and "my goodbye" was fabulous, exactly due to the fact that she was presented as goddess, the fact that while she was still good, she wasn't human. The lines "i see you changing from how I've designed you" and "I don't know where i went wrong," implying that Odysseus was more of a failed project than anything else, were my favorite. Yeah, i had some problems (the whole conflict between Athena and Odysseus was pretty strange, because Athena knows humans long enough to understand their emotions and to understand that these emotions can be useful and can't be suppressed while Odysseus should understand that killing your enemy is pretty useful thing to do) but as I said, I wasn't too upset with them, as I didn't have this much affection towards Odyssey and Odysseus as I do now, so it was okay for me.

But, you know, even after wisdom saga, I still had some of my expectations because even with all of the problems with that saga, it still didn't cross some line. Like, making Zeus a simple asshole, while making Athena noble hero is not something new, it was done before epic it will definitely be done after.

(I even loved "Thunderbringer ", this level of jerkiness for Zeus was something I expected in a modern adaptation at some point, so I wasn't surprised with him acting like this, it stayed in my tolerance boarders so again, i loved it)

While in vengeance saga... well, I've already expressed my emotions on this in some of my previous posts, but if I were to sum up them, I would simply say that I was deeply disappointed again.

My main problem with this saga and therefore with whole musical is the way Poseidon was treated. He wasn't only turned into "final villain" for Odysseus but also in someone who can't even stand up for his words. It is just so disrespectful. Poseidon is one of the main three, he is the god of the sea, the earthshaker, his powers shape the landscape, he rules over the domain equal to the ones of Hades and Zeus, and you telling me a mortal with a bag of winds from a minor god was able to beat him?

At least in the wisdom saga, it made sense power wise. Like, yeah, it makes sense that Zeus can easily smite Athena, he is the king of the gods, and she is his daughter, so, yeah, if he would want this, he could have done this (again he would never do this, but he definitely had all the power to do so).

While here, even with help from some other Olympians, like Athena and/or Hermes, a mortal had no chances to overpower Poseidon.

And then Poseidon begging for mercy? One of the big three begging mortal for mercy? Calling him a monster? Are we still in Greek mythology?

I mean, gods are the most important part all of the myths are based on.

I know that there is a very popular take on Greek gods, that they seem so realistic because they are "just what humans would be with the power of gods" but it seems for me, that onse you get into greek mythology deeper then Wikipedia, you understand pretty fast that this is not the case. Gods are not simply humans with superpowers. They are the forces of nature, the embodiments of powerful concepts such as love, death, wisdom and etc. They were never seen as villains to fight against, if only because you can't be able to defeat them.

Look, I'm not religious, I'm probably as far from the religious as a person can be and I'm definitely not the one to tell you that you can't discuss certain religions to not offend people or that you can't even dare to change a thing in them to fit a story.

And I probably wouldn't have any problems with Epic if it all was like the vengeance saga from the very beginning. But it wasn't. First, sagas were great they really were a good example of how you can adapt something both staying loyal and respectful to the source material while also bringing up something new and adding some modern views in the story.

If Epic started on the same note, vengeance saga ended. I would simply say, "Oh, another strange modern adaptation of the Odyssey," and moved on.

Amd that's the reason why i was so angry when the last saga only came out and why I am so sad about Epic now. I feel like I was fooled into believing that we're finally getting good modern adaptation faightful to the source material, which, even considering that this is my own problem, since no one promised me this, and I just came up with these expectations on my own, still feels shitty.

So, my main opinion on epic, that i thought it had the potential to be this wonderful adaptation of greek myths, we waited so long for. I wanted it to be a good example of what a modern retelling needs to be to both introduce new modern topics and be respectful to the source material. Well, it seems the creator wanted it to be something else.

#and yeah after this big disappointment all my minor complaints surfaced and now im annoyed about all of them #sorry it took me so long to respond #i decided to use this ask as an opportunity to finally sum up all my thoughts on epic in one post #epic the musical #ask

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capriddle · 3 months ago

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My top 10 couples

I usually always post about my favorites, but today I also want to talk about 9 other couples that are always in my heart:

10. Sansa and Sandor (Game of Thrones)

From what I remember of the books (in which their age difference is much less accentuated, it should be 10/15 years) I really liked the two of them, with Sansa who was scared but then understood that he was a good person deep down and with Sandor who fell in love with the innocence and hope of this little girl.

9. Jo March and Friedrich Bhaer (Little Women)

Here too I don't remember much from the book but in the film I definitely loved them together, Jo so stubborn and bold and Friedrich calm but very honest and clear. Also here we have the age difference!

8. Elizabeth Bennet and Fitzwilliam Darcy (Pride and Prejudice)

This is the quintessential enemies to lovers and since this is my favorite trope I couldn't help but fall in love with them, I also have a soft spot for Mr Darcy because we are very similar in character and I empathize with them a lot.

7. Alina Starkov and Aleksander Morozova/The Darkling (Shadow and Bone)

What can I say, big age difference, enemies for lovers, impossible love... could I let them get away? Of course not! I wanted them together, period.

6. Penelope Featherington/Lady Whistledown and Colin Bridgerton (Romancing Mr Bridgerton/Bridgerton season 3)

I don't usually like friends-in-love, but these two made me change my mind (maybe because I love her too much). They're so high in the ranking because I wasn't crazy about the second part of their season, I liked Penelope's answers to Colin in the book more. Anyway, credit to them for making me change my mind about the friends-in-love trope.

5. Katniss Evergreen and Peeta Mellark (Hunger Games)

I don't know if I would call them friends or lovers, I just know that I didn't root for Gale for a second. Katniss and Peeta are perfect together, two survivors with profoundly different characters but united by a common moral. She is colder and more direct, he is kinder and more generous, but both are strong, brave and altruistic. A wonderful couple!

4. Scarlett O'Hara and Rhett Butler (Gone with the Wind)

Age difference, difficult characters, both stubborn, direct, mean and cunning. A perfect couple even though she realizes it too late, their push and pull is so funny and the ending so out of the ordinary for the time and a novel partly of love that will satisfy those who love plot twists.

3. Albus Dumbledore and Gellert Grindelwald (Harry Potter saga/Fantastic Beasts saga)

Enemies for lovers, two complex and multifaceted characters, a tragically divided couple who find themselves rivals after a sparkling start. An overwhelming and painful love that moves you when you think about how Grindelwald protected Dumbledore's tomb from Voldemort. They deserved more (and so do we fans of the films).

3. Seong Gi-hun and Hwang In-ho (Squid Game)

Yes, there is nothing confirmed, but I refuse to think that two people who look at each other like that are not in love with each other! Here too we have an enemy for lovers of the tastiest, with the addition that our hero does not even know that the other is the sworn enemy. What can I say, I loved every second of them!

1. Bellatrix Black and Tom Marvolo Riddle/Lord Voldemort (Harry Potter saga)

The unexpected couple in first place. Age difference, opposite social classes, complementary characters and shared passions. The desire to create the world they want and the courage to do any wickedness for each other. This is true love and I don't want to hear anything against it!

Looking at the rankings I would say there is still hope for me but not a lot considering the top 3🤣🤣🤣🤣!

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tobiasdrake · 1 year ago

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FUN FACT: Did you know that Chi-Chi got off Gohan's back about studying for the three years of the Android and Cell Saga?

A key thing to understand about Goku and Chi-Chi's relationship is that they don't have a traditional marriage. The anime went to great lengths to try and heteronormalize them as a typical couple who are together because they're madly in love.

But they're not. Goku is very much an aroace character. Like. He's not sex-repulsed, obviously; Gohan and Goten's existence proves that much. But romance and sexuality don't mean anything to him. They're not factors he considers when he's making his life choices. He's not interested in pursuing them in any meaningful way.

Goku and Chi-Chi's marriage is largely contractual. It exists because these two backwoods hicks made a deal when Goku was a child, that he didn't even know the context of what he was agreeing to.

Goku then left and never saw her again for six years. He had absolutely no idea what they were talking about.

Fortunately for Goku, Yamcha was nearby to explain in Goku Terminology what it means to be married.

And that was that. Goku agreed to the terms of living in the same space as Chi-Chi, and their domestic life began from there.

Goku and Chi-Chi's relationship is, effectively, a pantomime of domestic life. They're two adultchildren playing house, moreso than a loving married couple. They had literally spent one day together before they wed; They had no idea who the other even is as a person when they started down this road.

Naturally, this resulted in a lot of friction when Gohan entered the picture. It'd have to, right?

This contractual marriage born of childish stupidity has not gone well.

Still, despite everything, Goku and Chi-Chi managed to reach an... interesting compromise in the Android arc... after a bit of really gross slapstick violence that has not aged well.

Yikes, Toriyama.

Nonetheless, Goku gets his way but only with conditions. Chi-Chi backs off on Gohan's studies and lets him train in martial arts for the next three years. But after that, it's done. Gohan will leave martial arts and become a scholar.

Once the agreement is forged, Chi-Chi's entire behavior changes. She becomes downright supportive of them.

Because they have a deal. She abides by the terms, fully expecting that Goku will abide by it as well.

This is something that the anime aggressively missed the point on. Like. They even rewrote existing scenes from the manga to show Chi-Chi violating the agreement.

Chi-Chi, what the fuck are you doing? You're breaking the deal. You don't do this in the manga. You just chill in the plane.

After things get messy in the Android arc, Goku and Chi-Chi revisit their agreement. Goku wants to add an addendum to their deal. Chi-Chi agrees... with an addendum of her own.

Goku asks to take Gohan into a pocket dimension for an entire year. Chi-Chi grants him that, but adds that after he and Gohan quit martial arts in accordance to the previous agreement, Goku has to get a job.

With that settled, she resumes backing off on Gohan's academics and being fully supportive of their temporary martial arts lifestyle.

Once Cell is defeated, their deal goes into effect. Per the agreement, Gohan quits martial arts and refocuses himself into academia.

Though Goku, at the very last second, manages to cheat on the agreement and prance away like a magnificent poof.

Goku, you cheeky dickwaffle.

#dragon ball #dragon ball z #son goku #chi chi #son gohan

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rei-comfort-zone · 4 months ago

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☆ Presentation card! ☆

Hiiiii, my name is Reiko! ( Anyone can call me Rei 1!1! )

I go by any pronoun and I'm also non-binary and present myself masc most of the times ☄️☄️☄️☄️☄️ I'm Latino and I speak Spanish and English ‼️‼️ <----

I don't do commisions! This 18 year old is way too dumb to know how to start doing them lolol !!! Oppsies

(I'm soon turning 19 lets gooooo !!!! April 29th)

My StrawPage (is in spanish and I haven't update it💔)

Stupid face reveal (I look whiter, sorry)

+ I lost all my instagram filters I can't hide the browness anymore my GAAAAWDDD

I love drawing my favorite hyperfixations ! Specially if they involve a forgotten character by god that are either morally gray or mentally disturbed/hj

My fave fandoms !!!!

The Eltingville Club

The Breadwinner

Smilling Friends

South Park

Fallout saga

Bloodborne

Sweet Tooth

Clerks !!! (I love Silent Bob omggg)

Zerocalcare's comics (I love his work sm)

Tales of Arcadia

Creep (2014)

Outlast saga

I'm probably stoned rn

I don't mind following my mutuals in different social medias! I have tons but I'm more active in instagram

I also have discord :DD I don't mind talking in there !!

My main social medias ! ! !

My twitter!🐦 (delulu posts mostly in spanish)

My instagram!📲 (more daily stories and doodles)

My Bluesky!🦋 (I wanted to make it oc centered)

My Discord!✉️ " Reiko☆ :] "

My non-main accounts online ! ! !

My Artifight!🖍 (I will try to be fully ready this 2025)

My SpaceHey!💻 (I wanna use it for personal blogs)

My CharacterHub👥️ (Is still in process)

I'm a selfshipper too!!! (Since I have memory) and I also do ocs x canon characters out of fun, I also have my own personal ocs but I don't post enough about them

My main ocs x canon or selfships💌

Scott Tenorman and his two friends (South Park = Polyamorous selfship)

Anthony (South Park, Airsoft teen = Selfship)

Ironjaw x Ash (Welcome to Eltingville the pilot chapter = oc x canon)

Idrees x Fatima (The Breadwinner = oc x canon)

Vulpes Inculta (Fallout: New Vegas = sometimes oc and sometimes I selfship with him)

Eddie Gluskin (Outlast: The Whistleblower = Selfship)

William Orlov (My own oc x me sometimes😻)

Cesare (This World Can't Tear Me Down = Selfship and sometimes cringe for it)

My basic boundaries !!!!!

I may show lack of self respect sometimes, but please don't act like a weirdo towards me in DMS🙏🙏🙏 I can match someone's freak without problem I just get nervous

I hate people who want to give "good criticism" to other people's art, let people enjoy something ! !

Please ASK before sharing MY art in other apps, I have went through getting my art posted without even asking😭😭😭 if I know you and I trust you then you def have permission to do so <333

Don't be an asshole please🙏🙏🙏 nor to me or to my friends, if I see anyone mocking my besties I'm gonna jump them📢‼️💥

Transphobes, homophobes and racists can go through the door if y'all don't wanna stay, like is over there ➡️ ➡️ ➡️ 🚪

My ocs or selfships with horrible characters doesn't describes me as a person irl ! ! ! I'm not an horrible person please don't mix that😭😭😭

I don't like doing calls or sending audios with anybody so easily, yeah there's still bounds to do

My hobbies !!!

Drawing or reading !

Watching horror movies (mostly reviews lol)

Gooning over fictional men

Writting oc lore (and cry about it)

Cooking😋😋😋

Collecting Kuromis (like anything from her I have a whole ass collection)

Playing videogames to no end

Loving my black cat Samael (he's such a devil)

I also love doing new projects and renpy games

That's allll BYEEEE !!!

#Spotify #face reveal #meet the artist #meet the blogger #doodles #hobbies #stuff about me #get to know me

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