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zuko-always-lies · 11 hours ago

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this isn't as bad as the other scenes you listed but that scene where they were looking for aang and toph was talking to zuko about her personal troubles and he just sighed and dismissed her...it sucks how it's treated as a comedic moment by both the narrative and the fandom 😭 toph vouched for him when no one else in the gaang wanted him to join, forgave him for burning her feet, and comforted him while he was venting to her about iroh, it's sad how toph went out of her way to be a good friend and zuko didn't reciprocate on that level

*quickly flipping through pages* Just a moment… *flipping through more pages* …almost there… *more page-flipping* …okay, here we go:

Fable of the Scorpion and the Frog

Ever heard of this one? I’ve seen this applied to Zuko before, but I can’t recall by who, so I’ll just rehash it myself. Here’s the synopsis from the Wikipedia article:

The scorpion bee (to use an ATLA hybrid animal) is Zuko—while the badger frog is basically everyone else in his life. There’s a long, long list of people who are nice to him, even go out of their way to help him, and are made to suffer for it:

Aang saves Zuko’s life at least twice in Book 1; Zuko sides with Azula and gets him killed in the crystal catacombs.

Katara opens up to him about her mother and offers to heal his scar; he turns on her anyway and uses the information about the spirit water to infer that Aang is alive, then hires Combustion Man to assassinate him (with collateral damage).

Song and her mother care for him and Iroh; he steals their lone farm animal, leaving them to destitution.

Jin goes out of her way to show him a good time; he ditches her.

Azula lies to Ozai in order to get Zuko back into his good graces (no way she could’ve known Aang was alive at that point); he exposes the lie and then leaves her to suffer the potential consequences.

Mai commits treason and risks her life to save him from falling into the boiling lake; he forgets to free her (or at least takes his time) after becoming Fire Lord.

Iroh…uh, yeah…no explanation necessary for this one.

So it doesn’t come as much of a surprise that he’s rude and dismissive to Toph, the primary advocate for trusting/accepting him into the Gaang. With her seismic sense, she vouches that he’s not lying and goes so far as to seek him out…and how does he thank her? He treats her as a nuisance—probably because that’s exactly what she is to him when he doesn’t need anything from her.

But, more essentially, he’s a scorpion bee. He stings her. That’s what he does. There’s no bargaining or reasoning with the nature of something; it does what it does because it is what it is.

That’s not to say he has zero noble qualities. The problem is that the show’s narrative framing does an incredible job convincing the audience that Zuko is always a victim of circumstances and never holds him to account—or plays his misbehavior off as comedy, like you said. Toph should have kicked him in the shins for being rude to her, but not even the world’s greatest earthbender can break out of such heavy-handed narrative framing. (She wouldn’t take that attitude/ingratitude from anyone else—it’s against her character.)

Anyway, you’re exactly right—that’s another great example of Zuko being an “Awkward Turtleduck”…or just a jerkbending scorpion bee. Thanks for the ask, anon!

#Zuko #Zuko meta

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zuko-always-lies · 1 day ago

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Have you seen Kpop Demon Hunters? I've seen some parallels of Azula, Mai and Tylee with Rumi, Mira and Zoey and wanted to know your thoughts.

No, I haven't.

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zuko-always-lies · 1 day ago

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I feel like you can tell who in the fandom are either eldest siblings, younger siblings or only children based on how they react to Lin and Su's dynamic.

The eldest child trauma is jumping out with how visceral some people get when it comes to discussing "the incident" and more specifically, Su's role in it. I just know some of y'all straight up resent or dislike your younger siblings.

Either that, or they think very similarly to how Lin does (that the younger sibling is spoilt and gets everything they want, while the eldest gets nothing). Or both.

This has ask has been marinating in my inbox for a while now, because I have a lot to say on this subject. And discussing the Suyin/Lin beef is exhausting lmao.

I think my vigorous defence of Suyin is very funny in the context you've presented, because I have a strained relationship with my younger sister as well. And tbh, my kneejerk reaction when first watching B3 was to "side" with Lin. I use quotations because even then I found it hard to percieve the feud as some manner of competition. Neither of the sisters was fully in the right, or in the wrong. I still don't believe Lin has to reconcile with Su because "they're family", despite what some may believe. I do, however, think reconciliation is a good thing for her mental health.

I can absolutely empathise with the difficulties of being an older sibling, and how unfair it can feel at times. Everyone's relationships are different, of course, but I know it's hard for a kid to understand that they're not being replaced or passed up, especially when babies and young kids just require more attention than their older siblings. I also know that for me personally it was hard to accept that my parents were basically learning by parenting me, and would change their parenting for the better for my sister. Which is just kind of a natural thing, but it still sucks. And even if it's not technically your younger sibling's fault, it's easy to feel resentment towards them.

Especially when we're told Toph is a neglectful parent, and that the sisters competed for what little attention they were given.

Suyin : It's complicated. We didn't have a normal childhood. Neither of us knew our fathers and Toph was always busy being Chief of Police. Because mom grew up in such a strict household, she gave us all the freedom in the world, hoping we'd figure out our own paths. Korra : That sounds like a good thing. Suyin : And in a way it was. But we both ended up fighting for mom's attention. Lin followed in her footsteps and became a cop. I was ... more of a rebel.

It's easier for us to sympathise with Lin, and feel bad for her, because she took the "good kid" approach of trying to win her mother's attention. She's doing everything "right", so she should be being rewarded. By contrast, Suyin is acting out and being mouthy, therefore she should be punished. When I see people talk about the Lin/Su beef it's like we're talking about some sort of competition of virtues where there has to be a virtuous victor and morally detestable loser.

But they're not really viable in most sibling relationships. Suyin and Lin shouldn't have to be pited against each other, the fact that they had to compete against each other is a sensless tragedy that we shouldn't play into.

They're also not like... evenly matched opponents on fair terms? Like I don't know if this is a thing among most people, but growing up, I know I would often treat my sister like she was the same age as me. Getting annoyed when she was scared of things I had been scared of at her age, feeling like my parents were coddling her when they treated her like the younger kid she was, etc. Frankly the only times the fact that she's four years younger than me would come up was when I wanted to prove I'm right about something because I'm older and smarter, obviously.

The age gap between Su and Lin is like 6, I think? Yet, they bicker and argue like they're the same age, especially in the flashbacks. And yeah, 6 years isn't the biggest age gap in the world, but when it's between 12 and 18? Between 16 and 22?

And I've gotten flack for "having double standards" when talking about Lin and Suyin's relationship, particularly in giving Su grace about 'the incident' while critiquing Lin's behaviour in Zaofu. And yeah? Duh? I have different approaches to a 16 year old and to a 50 year old. Don't you?

But I don't think it's just a younger sibling vs older sibling thing. I've touched this subject before, but society (god I feel like the joker everytime i say that word lmao) just has a tendency to look down on and leave behind what we deem "troubled teens". And even if we ourselves have a less than stellar past, it's easy to be ashamed of it, and dismiss your past self as a dumb, angsty kid. When a lot of times, when we were dumb angsty teens, our hurt and turmoil were very valid, we just didn't know how to express it.

I think a lot of us can agree that Su acted out for attention, at least in some capacity. I don't think it's the only reason, as she clearly has a lot of loyalty towards her friends etc. But I'm sure that's part of it. I find that, especially with young girls, 'acting out for attention' is treated as some vapid, egoistical pursuit. When more often than not, it feels like a poorly formulated cry for help. Poorly formulated, because they probably haven't fully learnt to express their needs properly, or are afraid of the vulnerability that comes with that.

Like, I'm sorry, but kids, and people in general need attention. Especially from close relatives. Like I thinm this phrase is overused and stupid but humans really are social creatures, and we need at least a few social connections, especially as kids.

Lin: You're supposed to be in school. Suyin : Oh no, are you going to tell Mom? It's not like she's going to care.

[..]

Lin: You have so much potential. You're ruining your life! Suyin : At least I have a life!

Like if we read through the angsty preteen meaness, we have a kid so neglected by her mother that she doesn't expect her mother to care that she's skipping school and hanging out god knows where. And if we go further, and assume that Lin didn't change that much since the flashbacks, she also has a workaholic older sister. Like that's a lonely ass kid. Are we surprised she gets super bonded to her friends and goes along with their illicit activities?

What also kinda got to me is that her two friends look quite a bit older than her. Like she's like 12 here. And also we don't get any more background info on them at all??? I just wanna know how they met, what their backgrounds are etc.

When I first saw Su in the flashbacks I really didn't like her. But rewatching her with a kinder eye, I saw a bit of myself when I was her age. I was a troubled kid feeling unheard and uncared for by my family. I acted out, ran away from home and did a lot of stupid things. And I know I could've easily ruined my life if things had gone slightly differently. And I was still very lucky to be operating with the privilege of just being seen as an "angry but harmless little white girl". If I were more masc, or a person of colour, I'd probably have gotten into much more trouble. But I know that it's only because the adults in my life actively took notice and showed me care and compassion that I didn't end up in a far worse place.

And look, I don't expect Lin to be doing Actual Parenting with her sister. That's not her job. While I've seen people headcanon Lin as taking on a parental role with Su, I don't think we get enough insight to their relationship to be able to gauge that. I feel like if that were the case in canon, it would at least be alluded to more prominently.

However, I also think that she didn't approach the situations with Su in a manner befitting the adult of the situation. And sure, in an ideal world, Lin would not be the adult of the situation, and I don't think it's some horrid moral failing of her that she didn't rise to the occasion. Just that there is some blame on the situation. Like yeah, talking to kids, especially kids that are being mean is rough, but immediately putting pressure on them and pointing out their wrongdoings is redundant and only making tensions grow. And screaming at a teen as an adult cop and berating them in the middle of the street (even if they deserve to be berated) is Not The Move.

Suyin: I didn't steal anything. I just drove the car. I owed my friends a favor. It's not a big deal. Lin: I'm not letting you get away with this.

Like maybe I'm just especially skittish but even if we were sisters and my mom were the chief of police I would definitely be nervous around the cop who is "not letting me get away with this"

And once again, I don't think Lin is required to know how to approach these situations, and it can be tough, especially ehen you have a preexisting tense relationship, as they do. But she's certainly not helping the situation.

And ultimately, Su doesn't really get the compassion or care she needed from the adults in her life. Yeah she doesn't go to jail, but it's not out of Toph's care for her specifically, but rather for her career. And as @shadelorde has pointed out (even though they got pushback for it) Su straight up got her life uprooted and essentially kicked out of the city???

Toph: All right, enough! Here's what we're going to do. Su, you need to leave the city as soon as possible. Suyin: What?! Where am I supposed to go? Toph: You'll go stay with your grandparents.

[..] Lin: So, once again, Suyin gets to do whatever she wants and there are no consequences.

And, like, it's not The Consequence, but it is A Consequence and I'd argue it's still quite rough for a teen. But it also is probably a good thing for Su, since it gave her a fresh start and ultimately allowed her the space and freedom to grow as a person. Which, we don't know how much Lao and Poppy helped her in this, but considering she says she started travelling the world at 16, the same age she was when she got sent to them, I think a lot of that was Suyin Alone™️. Which is really kinda sad.

And idk, it's just the lack of compassion to a character who clearly needed compassion. Like, yeah, she needed a good scolding too, but frankly that can come after the kid is actually being taken care of. I don't like when people pit siblings against each other, and I don't like when people look at children acting out and treat the child as the source of the issue. There's so much thoughts I have on the kid Suyin was, and the compassion and care she had to travel the world to find.

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zuko-always-lies · 1 day ago

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So this question might be a bit outside your wheelhouse but do you have any thoughts on the Tonraq-Unalaq relationship? ATLA and LoK has a history of weird sibling conflicts, with the younger sibling being presented as a threat to the older one (see Azula-Zuko, Ozai-Iroh, Suyin-Lin) but the Tonraq-Unalaq one seems like the most oddly black and white of them. I guess I'm asking you this because there would seem to be a connection between Tonraq-Unalaq and Suyin-Lin?

Oooh, now there's a topic. I love sibling relationships in Avatar. As a sibling myself, I enjoy watching them unfold. Though yeah, it's a bit funny how the younger sibling is often presented as the more antagonistic. I'd argue that in Su and Lin's case, it is the fandom that tended to present Su as a threat or purposefully malicious actor in Lin's life. The show kinda just shows us a kid that acts out and accidentally injures her sibling which doesn't scream "threat".

When it comes to antagonistic older siblings, we're basically left with Amon and Baatar Jr, and both of them are given a little more leeway in my opinion. Amon and Tarrlok both suck™️, and Baatar Jr isn't explored as an older sibling at all, save for a few lines with Opal. And his 'bad sibling' status is mollified by the fact that when Opal is in danger he immediately tries to intervene. He did not give a fuck about imprisoning his brothers in borderline inhumane conditions though so we can tell who the favourite sibling is.

I think the franchise tends to overindulge in the "evil younger sibling usurping the rightful throne of the older sibling" trope, as seen in Ozai-Iroh, Azula-Zuko and Tonraq-Unalaq relations. Now this has been a popular trope since like biblical times at least, Esau and Jacob style, and a lot of fantasy media, but it does tend to get old after a while. Which, frankly, Esau and Jacob have some similarities to Tonraq and Unalaq. Big stronk impulsive man and his spiritual, yet scheeming brother who tricks his way into gaining the firstborn's birthright.

Though there are of course differences between these two stories.

But yeah Tonraq and Unalaq specifically are quite black and white. Like other than them, Ozai and Iroh are the only other sibling relationship with such polarity. Azula and Zuko have much more nuance.

I do personally find Unalaq very interesting as a villain who also happens to be a spiritual leader. This is a character archetype that resonates very strongly with me, probably due to my own religious upbringing. Particularly a man of faith using his status to attempt to ensnare a young woman, as Unalaq did with Korra, is a trope that is always hard hitting.

And while Unalaq does not look at Korra through a romantic or sexual lense, it's hard not to note the red flags of an older male relative, a religious authority, isolating an already struggling young girl from her support network, manipulating her and downplaying her concerns, coercing her into doing something she didn't want by threatening an even younger and more vulnerable girl. Only for it all to culminate in him violating her literal soul by physically tearing something out of her and ripping it to shreds right in front of her.

I'm sorry, I'm aware we got off the subject of Unalaq and Tonraq's relationship, but I've wanted to do a dissection of Unalaq for a while. However, even the event of Tonraq's banishment shows us Unalaq contradicting his own values. He claims to venerate and want to protect the spirits, yet he deliberately orchestrated the destruction of a sacred forest in order to secure his future as the leader of the nation. We can go further. He was part of the Red Lotus, anarchist revolutionaries, yet he himself became a world leader.

Now, I've actually previously speculated on the possibility of Unalaq's spirituality being related to Yue's ascension to spirithood. His relative, Yue, the daughter of the previous chief becoming The Moon Spirit probably denoted some shift in the North's religiousness. Which may have affected Unalaq to some degree. Giving him as much of a benefit of the doubt as we can, I imagine he was at least genuinely interested in spirituality.

Frankly, there's an interesting case to be made about both Unalaq and Tonraq being affected in different ways by the Siege of the North. While the event was technically resolved quickly, the Moon, essentially their god, DISSAPEARED. And a royal figure had to sacrifice her life to bring it back. Like that's nationwide generational trauma right there babey.

I can absolutely see the Northern Watertribe being more protective of their spirits, which rubs off on Unalaq, at least until he realises he can use them for his own ambitions. Tonraq's militancy and his determination to wipe out the bandits that attacked them may also be a testament to the potential pressure to protect his nation upon him.

Frankly, there's not much to go off with Tonraq and Unalaq. We ahve a vague idea of their past, but they kinda barely track as brothers. Sure, there's a bit of tension and animosity between them, but hardly enough to even get an idea of their relationship. We can speculate, of course, but that would only be speculation. They're similar to Ozai and Iroh in that way.

I will say that I wouldn't be surprised if Korra's desire to "fix" Su and Lin's relationship stemmed from her still feeling guilty for what happened with Unalaq. But that's another specualtion.

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