#alfred pennyworth is an enabler

[snakeredbirdbatkatana]

Your Alfred hate is the only thing keeping me going seriously. What made you hate him?

Hate is an interesting word.

But also thank you!!!

I think he is the words biggest enabler. I think the fandom gives him way to much credit and power.

But what really drove home to me that he sucked or was at least not the all seeing cookie god that people seem to think he is.

1. Tim Drake's 16th Birthday from Hell

2. When Dick was kicked out he did jack shit

3. Every single Time he is just standing in the background watching Bruce sucking and doing nothing.

I could go on a rant I really could.

Also I think it is hilarious that everyone says Jason would be Alfred's favorite. No fucking way.

Sometimes it's nice to make silly fics with him being all grandfatherly but realistically I would not.

[kay-enemy]

Well, I didn't get as much (any) writing as I wanted done over the holiday, but here is more detail on the end notes from No Saint Alfred:

To set the scene, it is roughly 6 months after Jason Todd died as Robin. Tim Drake is insisting Batman still needs Robin...by which he means specifically Dick being Robin rather than Nightwing:

(Batman #441, 1989)

Meanwhile, Nightwing and Batman have already been defeated by Two Face:

(Batman #442, 1989)

So: one child dead due to the adults using him as a soldier. One young adult about to die due to being raised as a child soldier. One adult about to die due to his own choices.

What does Alfred do? He encourages another child soldier to run into danger!!!

(#441)

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

To Alfred's very slight credit, he does seem to change his tune in the next issue and tries to discourage Tim?

(#442)

"Tim, don't. You know what happened to Jason."

"This is wrong. I shouldn't be doing this."

But he still drives an untrained 13-year-old to the scene of danger????

Then to top it all off, Tim wasn't even critical in saving the day. Tim, who had NO TRAINING in vigilantism at this point, was being beaten by Two Face in a scene very similar to Jason and Joker:

(Tim and Two Face in 442)

(Jason and Joker in #427, 1988)

And Tim only got an upper hand once Alfred caused a distraction - which could have been achieved with Gordon, Batwoman, anyone from the Justice League who could get there with super speed... Anyone but an innocent child!

In conclusion, Robin would have died with Jason if not for Alfred. For all the fanon discussion of Tim forcing the issue, he didn't want or even consider being Robin himself until Alfred put the idea in his head. Alfred is worse than an enabler, he is actively encouraging the use of child soldiers.

I will not forgive Alfred, and neither should Jason or Tim.

Happy New Year! Hopefully I will be just as spiteful in 2024

(This isn't even my main complaint about the comics, idk why I made a big post about this one rather than the glaring problems)

[snakeredbirdbatkatana]

I am a huge fan of when Alfred is acknowledge as the shitty dude he is.

99% of problems are seriously him.

Also I will never understand the Alfred Jason favorite grandchild thing that has been cooked up. You could make a better argument of Jason being Bruce's favorite son Lucifer/God style.

Alfred was a big factor in many of Tim Drake's worse moments. Also Dick Grayson's, nevermind the fact that he abandoned his daughter.

I think many people find it easier to just blame Bruce and have Alfred be this holy character who can do no wrong.

But here's the thing you are just as guilty if you sit there and do nothing. Which is the only thing Alfred ever does.

I wish I could find whatever comic inspired the Alfred is the best thing since sliced bread and burn it because I can't for the life of me figure out why it became like this.

But I do slightly disagree on one thing and that is the whole Damian is his grandchild thing he has always had a favoritism to Dick. Leaving him money and doing a whole bunch of other stuff.

But if he raised Bruce which I am putting lightly cause I don't know what was happening but it was not parenting it's even more messed up him sitting and watching what his "kid" is doing and doing again nothing.

There are very few characters I dislike but especially the fandom interpretation of Alfred Enabler Pennyworth.

One trope that i find weird is that during batfam reconciliation fics, the batfam members use alfred as like the big red button to bring jason back, but i feel like that wouldn't actually work. at all.

Jason would HATE alfred after everything he did after he died. Canonically, it was alfred that made the "a good soldier" memorial case, bruce wanted it down but alfred insisted he keep it up, he was the one that gave tim the Robin suit THAT JASON DIED IN, and drove him to save batman and nightwing with NO training at all. He also helped keep up all the "jason was always doomed for a life of crime, and he was an angry child that got himself killed" narrative that was spun after DitF. Alfred pennyworth is batman's biggest enabler, and has stood by while bruce did all his bullshit, such as the whole UtRH arc, and RHatO #25, where he said that it was inevitable that jason would go back on the whole no killing agreement.

Alfred may care for all of Bruce's children, but his only grandchild is damian, as shown when he made him robin behind tim's back( the whole "dick made damian robin" thing is just to add to tim angst. Dick was infact against that whole shitshow). If it doesn't benefit bruce, his pseudo son/employer and landlord, he wouldn't give a fuck.

It's basically impossible to write a reconciliation fic at all without completely rewriting characters, especially jason and alfred. Jason believes that batman's mission is flawed and useless since he doesn't permanently stop crime, so he'd never fully give up killing, the whole reason there's a rift between him and bruce, and alfred isn't this doting grandfather that always sides with his grandchildren and bakes cookies and makes tea.

Also, one major thing the fandom forgets is that alfred is canonically a shitty father to julia, his bio daughter. He abandoned his own daughter for the waynes, he'd never prioritise bruce's children over him.

[celaenaeiln]

Bruce: *losing it* I need to find this killer. I need to stop him now before someone else’s becomes a victim- WHY WONT THIS CAR GO?!

Jason: First, I removed the tires, and second- HAS SOMEONE CALLED DICK YET?!?

Tim: I DID HE SAID HE’S ON HIS WAY

Steph: WELL TELL HIM TO “ON HIS WAY” FASTER! BRUCE IS READY TO BUST OUT OF HERE!

Damian: FATHER STOP THIS UNACCEPTABLE BEHAVIOR, GRAYSON WOULD BE DISAPPOINTED!!

Dick: *rushing in* hey, what’s wrong? What’s wrong, B?

Bruce: Dick! I need to stop this psychopath, he’s going to kill everyone in Gotham.

Tim: YOUR ARM IS IN A SLING, YOUR ANKLE IS SPRAINED, YOU HAVE THREE BROKEN RIBS, A BARELY BANDAGED KNIFE WOUND, INTERNAL BLEEDING- WHO ARE YOU GOING TO STOP IN THIS CONDITION?!

Dick: Okay, I got it. Bruce, open the door.

Bruce: *opening the car door for Dick*

Jason: Oh, ofcourse, he listens to the Golden Boy. Sure guess the rest of us are invisible or shit then.

Dick: *hopping in* *removing the manual brake lever*

Dick: okay, let’s go.

Jason, Tim, Steph, and Damian: what.

Bruce and Dick: *speeding off on tire rims and no breaks into the dark Gotham night*

Jason: WHAT THE FUCK! WHAT THE FUCK WAS THAT?! WE HAVE TO GO AFTER THEM!!

Steph: Alfred, what happened?!

Alfred: *Wiping down the plate Dick grabbed the last cookie off before zooming away with Bruce* A lifetime of trust and experience, young master Stephanie.

Damian: Pennyworth, did you know this would happen?

Alfred: I’ll be sure to let Master Dick know to bring you along next time.

Damian: tt. Acceptable, I suppose.

Based on this:

Batman and Robin (2011) Issue #23

Batman (2011) Issue #14

[violent138]

Bruce inherited the British understatement thing from Alfred and it drives everyone around him crazy, because he'll be having the happiest day of his life and say, "This is nice." Or react to accomplishments like, "Hn." and perhaps a nod of approval if he's feeling it.

On the other hand the way Bruce expresses disappointment and anger is something Alfred can take no credit for.

[farshootergotme]

Look, I love Alfred as much as the next person. But when there's moments like this:

Outsiders v3 #21

I've gotta really wonder... does he know how bad things can get when Bruce and Dick are arguing?

Because I don't like the implication that he knows things get physical sometimes and that he just leaves them knowing that.

[stateofconstantemotion]

Idk why this is so funny to me. Like imagine Bruce explaining this to someone.

Random Person: Oh Batman your new fighting style is so cool where'd you learn it

Random Person (Thinking): (ooh i bet it's some obscure master in some vaguely eastern place)

Batman: Me. I made it up.

Random person: Oh! that's cool too-

Batman: It's called Bam Pow.

Random Person: ...

Batman: I didn't pick the name.

[kittykatninja321]

toxic boy mom Alfred Pennyworth. Is this anything. I’m just spitting out words here

[bluegarners]

what if YOU were alfred pennyworth and you LOVED dick grayson so much and treated him like a SON, but the enormity of what YOU have done to him and what YOU have ALLOWED to be done to him prevents a complete connection so that there is ALWAYS the underlying knowledge that YOU could have prevented so much of the TRAGEDY in dick's life had YOU just said NO

[raileurta]

Batfam prank au

A funny idea I have for a crack fic is that the bat kids get some random kid with blue eyes and black hair to gaslight Bruce into thinking he has another child for April fool's day. The thing is Bruce doesn't question it. The kid starts showing up to family dinners, he's got a bedroom in the left wing now, and Alfred makes school lunches for him.

So batfam is like game on and starts bringing in more kids until Bruce says something. This becomes this whole thing of does Bruce actually know, the justice making bets on how many kids Bruce will tolerate, and how willing are the bat kids to have 100+ siblings for a bit. (The answer is unquestionably a yes)

[snakeredbirdbatkatana]

That man is put on a pedestal that he does not deserve!!!

But is anyone really surprised it's the old white dude of course he did nothing wrong.......

No hate I am just super curious about the honest answers. I also only put the main people cause the list would be way to long.

[necrotic-nephilim]

Hear me out, dead dove alfred x dick

YES YOU GET IT. YOU SO GET IT.

i am *begging* for more Alfred inclusion in Batcest on my hands and knees. i'm a Tim/Alfred truther, but Dick/Alfred is so fun. there's always this default characterization in the Batfam that Alfred is good and this pillar of support and the Grandfather who everyone trusts and leans on. and that is boring to me. (also not really canon imo, Alfred condones and acts on a lot of shitty behavior-) but it's fun to play with as a subversion. when someone like Dick gets taken in by Bruce, he barely registers the kindly butler. and of course he bonds with Alfred eventually, but it's a wholesome bond. Dick will always be fighting with Bruce about something, which makes Alfred the respite. the one who helps with homework, stitches him up after patrol, talks to him about his problems, etc. so to make Alfred the more predatory, fucked up one? that's fun. it's fun bc Dick wouldn't *expect* it.

like. it'd start just small and slow enough that Dick is questioning if this is wrong or not. Alfred has seen him naked in just about every position to stitch those awkward to reach places, so if Alfred walks into Dick's room when he's naked or goes into the bathroom when he's showering well, it's a little weird but boundaries are weird in general for all of them. if Alfred's touch lingers when he's stitching up Dick, he positions Dick in compromising ways, well he's the medical expert and Dick trusts him.

and then when it tips over into overtly sexual it get so fun bc. it's not like Dick can tell Bruce. Alfred is basically Bruce's father and entire support system, Dick doesn't want to take that from him. and when Alfred touches him he uses all the grooming tactics. telling Dick he's mature for his age, he's not like other teenagers, he's so pretty, eh can be trusted with important things, all of it laid on thick. Dick's been canonically groomed, so it's clearly a tactic that works well on him, esp from someone he'd already trust like Alfred.

i just think that Alfred being so willing to agree with Bruce adopting all these teenagers he clearly has no emotional capacity to take care of. is something we could take advantage of in a dead dove way. a reasonable adult would object to this. but making Alfred groom them is fun. and like i said in my dom/sub headcanon post, i think for Alfred it's all a mental game. he's never going to "force" any one to do anything. he talks Dick into it. sure, Alfred can fight and he's not defenseless or frail, but he likes not *needing* to get physical or exert strength. bc if he talks Dick into it, then it's far more questionable if it "counts" as grooming, to Dick. bc Dick agreed to all of this and it's *Alfred*, he could've easily fought him off. it's a very fun mind game and to me, the most fun part about including Alfred in Batcest as the morally questionable one.

[violent138]

[pshedborski]

If Alfred Pennyworth has zero haters, know that I’m dead

[incorrectbatfam]

How would you rank each member of the BatFam from most to least mentally stable?

[alyakthedorklord]

Chiroptophobia: the Fear of Bats.

Bruce Wayne is Scared of Bats. This is a Canon Fact.

In a difference from canon, Batman pretends to actually BE a bat man.

(Again, “Loading and Aspect Ratio” by JUBE514 situation with fake wings. Please go read it I love it so much.)

Bruce turns himself into a physical manifestation of his personal worst nightmares, and sets out to be a street cryptid. People see him flinching from bright lights and loud noises (he hasn’t slept in three days and he really hates guns) twitching weirdly (testing his wings function/stimming) not fully understanding human social niceties (you cannot tell me this man isn't Autistic) and, duh, wings, and go ah yes this being is Inhuman.

However, people KNOW Brucie Wayne™ is petrified of bats. There was an incident at a party when one flew through a window, another at a zoo, there was this one time Manbat showed up and he practically teleported away. No one saw him for a whole month, even after Batman had captured Manbat. (He got injured in the fight.)

By extension, this means that Bruce Wayne is afraid of Batman. Just- absolutely terrified of him. No ones seen them in the same place. Ever. Bruce Wayne actually publicly refuses to even believe in the cryptid for YEARS past when he's already been proven to exist.

When the Justice League gets called in to protect Bruce and his smattering of children from some plot (batman conspicuously absent, despite Gotham being his territory) Bruce straight up tells the league that he doesn’t believe in Batman, and he feels much safer with “real heroes” rather than “a urban legend spawned from overdramatic furries and gang wars.”

The justice league is, obviously, confused.

Certified little shits Dick, Jason, and Tim, (because we’re going with JUBE514’s canon and jason doesn’t die they’re all brothers f off-)

ANYWAYS: Certified Little Shits Dick, Jason, and Tim, ready for chaos/solidifying secret identities: “Don’t worry! We believe in batman! We saw him!” :D

They then proceed to tell the justice league that Bruce HAS met Batman, but he has a phobia of bats, so when Batman saved them at a gala Bruce screamed so loud and shrill he threw off the bat-hearing and then punched batman in the face so hard he knocked him out cold, grabbed then-baby Jason and ran. (Nightwing and the second Robin had to HEROICALLY rescue a dazed Batman, Dick saw it with his own eyes!)

Bruce was so scared of the bat coming to take revenge that he jumped at every shadow for a whole month. Why, Jason, (who was younger then) had slept in Bruce's bed to keep him safe! (Dick is crooning about his cute little brother. Jason, who is hitting his growth spurt and not a little kid anymore, is infinitely embarrassed.) Right now, Brucie has settled into firmly denying Batman’s entire existence so that he can sleep soundly at night.

“Why is he so scared of bats?” The Justice League is wondering. Oh, they are so glad they asked!

“Alfred told us a story once,” Dick says, eyes wide and innocent as he prepares to lie through his fucking teeth, “that when Bruce was little, really little, he got trapped in a cave filled with bats, and his dad had to come rescue him. Apparently, Little Bruce had been crying about a massive bat, even bigger than he was, with glowing red eyes and human hands and (gasp) wait oh my goodness gracious what if that was the BATMAN :0”

“The baby batman.” Jadon adds.

“Batboy?” Tim wonders.

“Alfred, do you think Bruce met Batman when they were little?” Dick asks.

“I believe,” Alfred “the greatest enabler” Pennyworth hums, offering fresh baked scones to thier gleeful audience, “that Master Bruce referred to what he saw as ‘the bat king’ and reported seeing him outside his window several times over the years.”

“Maybe it really was him! Will you ask Batman for us?” Tim asks, already planning to hack the watchtower cameras and set up some popcorn with his brothers.

The Justice League, who have learned more about the Batman in one conversation than they have over MANY years of working together, tell the Wayne children that it will be their Genuine Pleasure to quiz batman on his interactions with BRUCIE WAYNE who has, apparently, laid batman out cold with one punch.

Alfred adds on that he personally thinks the Batman is being rather courteous to Master Bruce, as “bat king” sightings were after “difficult times” and he doesn’t come near the manor otherwise, as robin had been the one to return some family heirlooms that one time they were stolen. He calls the batman and his robins “polite young gentlemen” and then leaves.

But now the gears are turning in the justice leagues heads. Batman? Courteous? Polite? Batman is not Courteous or Polite. Not unless something else is going on.

Now. From their point of view. Batman lives in the cave systems under the richest houses in Gotham, Phantom of the Opera style, hiding his meta form (because this batman is playing cryptid really well. Maybe he was a mutant baby of some Rich Gothamites, who threw him into the caves in shame!) He’s been watching Bruce Wayne, likely as he struggled with the highly reported on demise of his parents, seeing the effects that crime had on the boy that fell into his cave all those years ago. Batman has always been so protective of children, so hateful of guns, obviously the Wayne tragedy is part of what motivates him. He loves Gotham dearly, territorial of it to the point of keeping other heroes out, and yet he breaks that rule here, for Gotham's prince, solely for Bruce’s comfort.

Bruce, another person who obviously loves the city of Gotham just as much, putting millions into charity and relief efforts. Who is clearly very protective of his children, even if he usually has no spine, to the point of attacking his greatest fear to keep then safe, and good enough to land a hit, even. (Bruce Wayne is also considerably attractive.)

Its all so clear to the Justice League: Batman is madly in love with Bruce Wayne. Has been for years. To the point of watching him sleep, on occasion. How very tragic! Batman, in love with someone he can never be with! Not only would it paint a massive target on Bruce’s back if they ever did get together- there’s no questioning what Gotham villains would do if they discovered this, (and denying himself love out of an attempt to keep others safe is EXACTLY the kind of self-sacrificing nonsense Batman would pull) But Batman can’t even truly see the man he’s in love with without Brucie running away in terror! Well, the poor guy… how sad…

This conclusion can be supported by the following evidence-

Batman being the one to catch the guy who put the hit out on Bruce. He sent them to babysit/make sure Bruce was safe while dealt with the actual threat. (Bruce had a suspiciously long bathroom break/a nap)

Batman’s first appearance being right after Bruce Wayne returned to Gotham. Was the bat following him to protect him in those missing years? Or maybe he decided to clean up the city now that his beloved had returned?

Batman always being seen near where Bruce is. He’s never once been at the watchtower when Bruce has a public appearance- he must be watching over him, a silent guardian in case someone gets it in their head to kidnap Gotham’s Prince.

Batman insisting that Bruce is innocent in a corporate scheme, despite evidence to the contrary. (Hes right in the end, of course, but they’ve never seen him ignore evidence so clear.)

Batman casually referencing Wayne Tech/Foundation inner workings- he keeps an eye on them, of course. (If he can’t be close to the object of his affections, the league reasons, of course he’d make sure that Bruce’s company and projects are on the right track)

Nightwing, when asked, confirms the Bruce Punching Batman story. He says “honestly I think B was impressed! Caught him off guard!” (Since when does Batman lower his guard? Only when he’d be… distracted, perhaps…)

Superman saves Bruce, who thanks him with a kiss on the cheek. Later, justice league was teasing Clark, batman huffs and leaves the room. He’s CLEARLY jealous! Superman feels just awful!

Batman inexplicably knowing social dances/high society manners- he must have learned by watching (stalking) bruce! He can navigate high profile talk if he wants to, he just doesn’t want to most of the time. but if the situation calls for it he can talk like the Richest of Pricks in a way that only comes with observation.

Batman bristling when some of the league members start making Comments on Brucie Wayne’s Physical Attributes. (Jealousy? Defensiveness? Perhaps… embarrassment at GL’s detailed explanation on what he’d do with a chance in bed with Brucie.)

Batman absolutely freezing up when confronted with any of the above evidence. (He’s trying SO HARD not to laugh/go tell his kids)

Dick/Jason being big enough to wear the Bat-wings rather than thier own and be convincing- they save Bruce, though the man passes out (from fear? Blood loss from an injury? Perhaps- he is faking) and Dick/Jason, either out of genuine concern for their dad or general “how can i stir the pot” chaos, gently strokes his hair away from his face in an act of compassion that the cameras just so happen to catch. (There’s a few tears shed in the justice league- poor batman! He can’t be with his love!)

The robins (in both identities) telling the justice league that they've seen batman watching him.

“oh yeah he does background checks on aaaaaall bruces conquests. Had a conniption when brucie found a mafia boss that one time.”

“And when he found out Bruce and Two-face had a fling!”

(The league notes that often, if a criminal gets too close to Brucie, they’re put away not long after. B is usually collecting evidence in his civilian ID. But it looks like angry Batman wanted them to get the hell away from his mans.)

The Justice League is swooning over this tragic, forbidden love story. Batman is a little creepy but hey. He apparently grew up in a cave system. Its a wonder he's as well adjusted as he is. Batman has their sympathy, he seems less unflappable/untouchable, they’re a little more understanding with him now. Superman is all too happy to be a rebound, if needed. There are magic users offering glamour spells. Green Lantern is making exposure therapy innuendos.

The robins can’t believe how lucky they got. They’re def grounded but B can’t be too mad bc his secret identity is FUKIN SET.

Alfred is rather proud of Batman's new nickname in the league being “the bat king” and keeps sending batman along with cookies. The league thinks Batman is checking up on bruce with his butler. Its a mess.

Eventually, Batman loses a bet to one of his kids. Committing to the Bit with an exasperated sigh (he’s definitely not having fun, shut up jason.)

He admits to his crush.