#alfred pennyworth is an enabler

[snakeredbirdbatkatana]

Your Alfred hate is the only thing keeping me going seriously. What made you hate him?

Hate is an interesting word. But also thank you!!!

I think he is the words biggest enabler. I think the fandom gives him way to much credit and power.

But what really drove home to me that he sucked or was at least not the all seeing cookie god that people seem to think he is.

1. Tim Drake's 16th Birthday from Hell

2. When Dick was kicked out he did jack shit

3. Every single Time he is just standing in the background watching Bruce sucking and doing nothing.

I could go on a rant I really could.

Also I think it is hilarious that everyone says Jason would be Alfred's favorite. No fucking way.

Sometimes it's nice to make silly fics with him being all grandfatherly but realistically I would not.

[kay-enemy]

Well, I didn't get as much (any) writing as I wanted done over the holiday, but here is more detail on the end notes from No Saint Alfred:

To set the scene, it is roughly 6 months after Jason Todd died as Robin. Tim Drake is insisting Batman still needs Robin...by which he means specifically Dick being Robin rather than Nightwing:

(Batman #441, 1989)

Meanwhile, Nightwing and Batman have already been defeated by Two Face:

(Batman #442, 1989)

So: one child dead due to the adults using him as a soldier. One young adult about to die due to being raised as a child soldier. One adult about to die due to his own choices.

What does Alfred do? He encourages another child soldier to run into danger!!!

(#441)

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

To Alfred's very slight credit, he does seem to change his tune in the next issue and tries to discourage Tim?

(#442)

"Tim, don't. You know what happened to Jason."

"This is wrong. I shouldn't be doing this."

But he still drives an untrained 13-year-old to the scene of danger????

Then to top it all off, Tim wasn't even critical in saving the day. Tim, who had NO TRAINING in vigilantism at this point, was being beaten by Two Face in a scene very similar to Jason and Joker:

(Tim and Two Face in 442)

(Jason and Joker in #427, 1988)

And Tim only got an upper hand once Alfred caused a distraction - which could have been achieved with Gordon, Batwoman, anyone from the Justice League who could get there with super speed... Anyone but an innocent child!

In conclusion, Robin would have died with Jason if not for Alfred. For all the fanon discussion of Tim forcing the issue, he didn't want or even consider being Robin himself until Alfred put the idea in his head. Alfred is worse than an enabler, he is actively encouraging the use of child soldiers.

I will not forgive Alfred, and neither should Jason or Tim.

Happy New Year! Hopefully I will be just as spiteful in 2024

(This isn't even my main complaint about the comics, idk why I made a big post about this one rather than the glaring problems)

[snakeredbirdbatkatana]

I am a huge fan of when Alfred is acknowledge as the shitty dude he is.

99% of problems are seriously him.

Also I will never understand the Alfred Jason favorite grandchild thing that has been cooked up. You could make a better argument of Jason being Bruce's favorite son Lucifer/God style.

Alfred was a big factor in many of Tim Drake's worse moments. Also Dick Grayson's, nevermind the fact that he abandoned his daughter.

I think many people find it easier to just blame Bruce and have Alfred be this holy character who can do no wrong.

But here's the thing you are just as guilty if you sit there and do nothing. Which is the only thing Alfred ever does.

I wish I could find whatever comic inspired the Alfred is the best thing since sliced bread and burn it because I can't for the life of me figure out why it became like this.

But I do slightly disagree on one thing and that is the whole Damian is his grandchild thing he has always had a favoritism to Dick. Leaving him money and doing a whole bunch of other stuff.

But if he raised Bruce which I am putting lightly cause I don't know what was happening but it was not parenting it's even more messed up him sitting and watching what his "kid" is doing and doing again nothing.

There are very few characters I dislike but especially the fandom interpretation of Alfred Enabler Pennyworth.

One trope that i find weird is that during batfam reconciliation fics, the batfam members use alfred as like the big red button to bring jason back, but i feel like that wouldn't actually work. at all.

Jason would HATE alfred after everything he did after he died. Canonically, it was alfred that made the "a good soldier" memorial case, bruce wanted it down but alfred insisted he keep it up, he was the one that gave tim the Robin suit THAT JASON DIED IN, and drove him to save batman and nightwing with NO training at all. He also helped keep up all the "jason was always doomed for a life of crime, and he was an angry child that got himself killed" narrative that was spun after DitF. Alfred pennyworth is batman's biggest enabler, and has stood by while bruce did all his bullshit, such as the whole UtRH arc, and RHatO #25, where he said that it was inevitable that jason would go back on the whole no killing agreement.

Alfred may care for all of Bruce's children, but his only grandchild is damian, as shown when he made him robin behind tim's back( the whole "dick made damian robin" thing is just to add to tim angst. Dick was infact against that whole shitshow). If it doesn't benefit bruce, his pseudo son/employer and landlord, he wouldn't give a fuck.

It's basically impossible to write a reconciliation fic at all without completely rewriting characters, especially jason and alfred. Jason believes that batman's mission is flawed and useless since he doesn't permanently stop crime, so he'd never fully give up killing, the whole reason there's a rift between him and bruce, and alfred isn't this doting grandfather that always sides with his grandchildren and bakes cookies and makes tea.

Also, one major thing the fandom forgets is that alfred is canonically a shitty father to julia, his bio daughter. He abandoned his own daughter for the waynes, he'd never prioritise bruce's children over him.

[violent138]

Bruce inherited the British understatement thing from Alfred and it drives everyone around him crazy, because he'll be having the happiest day of his life and say, "This is nice." Or react to accomplishments like, "Hn." and perhaps a nod of approval if he's feeling it.

On the other hand the way Bruce expresses disappointment and anger is something Alfred can take no credit for.

[farshootergotme]

Look, I love Alfred as much as the next person. But when there's moments like this:

Outsiders v3 #21

I've gotta really wonder... does he know how bad things can get when Bruce and Dick are arguing?

Because I don't like the implication that he knows things get physical sometimes and that he just leaves them knowing that.

[stateofconstantemotion]

Idk why this is so funny to me. Like imagine Bruce explaining this to someone.

Random Person: Oh Batman your new fighting style is so cool where'd you learn it

Random Person (Thinking): (ooh i bet it's some obscure master in some vaguely eastern place)

Batman: Me. I made it up.

Random person: Oh! that's cool too-

Batman: It's called Bam Pow.

Random Person: ...

Batman: I didn't pick the name.

[laufire]

I never fail to roll my eyes when people say alfred is the one who put up jason's memorial in the case (I never fail to roll my eyes when people act like alfred, and not bruce, is the source of the bat clan's problems, period).

first of all, that memorial is painfully in-character for bruce, lbr. second of all, I'm gonna go blue in the face if I have to explain one more time that alfred has zero authority over batman-related matters (and a few others) in that household (bruce's household; the pater familias' property). third of all that was a throwaway moment written by geoff johns of all people (remember how he butchered jason's backstory with the teen titans), in a justice league cameo issue, where alfred was explicitly trying to get jason to look at bruce with better eyes, and thus likely to have lied out of his ass (iirc this is soon before bruce pulls the stunt of taking jason back to his place of death to trigger any repressed memories so. lol).

most importantly, remember batman: underd the hood? THEE jason todd run? issue 641 to be precise? how, after jason's identity (and living status) is confirmed, alfred asks bruce (because it is bruce's decision!) if wants him to take the memorial down? and bruce refuses because jason being back "doesn't change anything at all"?

[kittykatninja321]

toxic boy mom Alfred Pennyworth. Is this anything. I’m just spitting out words here

[bluegarners]

what if YOU were alfred pennyworth and you LOVED dick grayson so much and treated him like a SON, but the enormity of what YOU have done to him and what YOU have ALLOWED to be done to him prevents a complete connection so that there is ALWAYS the underlying knowledge that YOU could have prevented so much of the TRAGEDY in dick's life had YOU just said NO

[peachesancreams]

Socialite

ok but within normal Batman DC like

Martha is was a Kane, and Thomas was everyone's favorite not sugar baby

it still works even if you see Thomas as the Sicilian jersey man (give me this man in a wife beater smoking through a pack after surgery sayin' the other docs ain't shit[the misogynists'] pLZ)

why? cause I want the socialite older sister he never got to know due to his dads younger days (either an arranged marriage that ended in divorce or she just wanted nothing to do with him cause hes a not so great guy, either way)

like her mother was one(a socialite) and now she is a leading fashion icon for gotham, so what do you mean the skrunly lookin' guy held up by the wall with the bombshell of a wife is her half-brother???

yes ok cool hes a doctor and he runs circles around the mafia, why is he dressed like he is homeless

nothing wrong with homelessness, but the guy HAS money, loads of it. w h y.

flash a lil forward to when they have their two gremlins around the same time

now baby!brucie is a sweetheart, lil guy is a Certified Angel Baby. His autistic eyes are large, observant, and full of curiosity

meanwhile the cousin was a menace to all, first time she was released onto the manor she colored a old painting, the walls, and Bruce. then got him to join in a cookie heist.

only got caught cause of Alfreds 6th sense for cookie thieves (theyre the og adhd baby is what they tell dickie later)

(bruce asked to be colorful "wanna look like mama" his cousin also scribbled on their face for solidarity!)

[inspo for martha an thomas influenced by @bruciemilf]

[snakeredbirdbatkatana]

That man is put on a pedestal that he does not deserve!!!

But is anyone really surprised it's the old white dude of course he did nothing wrong.......

No hate I am just super curious about the honest answers. I also only put the main people cause the list would be way to long.

[raileurta]

Batfam prank au

A funny idea I have for a crack fic is that the bat kids get some random kid with blue eyes and black hair to gaslight Bruce into thinking he has another child for April fool's day. The thing is Bruce doesn't question it. The kid starts showing up to family dinners, he's got a bedroom in the left wing now, and Alfred makes school lunches for him.

So batfam is like game on and starts bringing in more kids until Bruce says something. This becomes this whole thing of does Bruce actually know, the justice making bets on how many kids Bruce will tolerate, and how willing are the bat kids to have 100+ siblings for a bit. (The answer is unquestionably a yes)

[necrotic-nephilim]

Hear me out, dead dove alfred x dick

YES YOU GET IT. YOU SO GET IT.

i am *begging* for more Alfred inclusion in Batcest on my hands and knees. i'm a Tim/Alfred truther, but Dick/Alfred is so fun. there's always this default characterization in the Batfam that Alfred is good and this pillar of support and the Grandfather who everyone trusts and leans on. and that is boring to me. (also not really canon imo, Alfred condones and acts on a lot of shitty behavior-) but it's fun to play with as a subversion. when someone like Dick gets taken in by Bruce, he barely registers the kindly butler. and of course he bonds with Alfred eventually, but it's a wholesome bond. Dick will always be fighting with Bruce about something, which makes Alfred the respite. the one who helps with homework, stitches him up after patrol, talks to him about his problems, etc. so to make Alfred the more predatory, fucked up one? that's fun. it's fun bc Dick wouldn't *expect* it.

like. it'd start just small and slow enough that Dick is questioning if this is wrong or not. Alfred has seen him naked in just about every position to stitch those awkward to reach places, so if Alfred walks into Dick's room when he's naked or goes into the bathroom when he's showering well, it's a little weird but boundaries are weird in general for all of them. if Alfred's touch lingers when he's stitching up Dick, he positions Dick in compromising ways, well he's the medical expert and Dick trusts him.

and then when it tips over into overtly sexual it get so fun bc. it's not like Dick can tell Bruce. Alfred is basically Bruce's father and entire support system, Dick doesn't want to take that from him. and when Alfred touches him he uses all the grooming tactics. telling Dick he's mature for his age, he's not like other teenagers, he's so pretty, eh can be trusted with important things, all of it laid on thick. Dick's been canonically groomed, so it's clearly a tactic that works well on him, esp from someone he'd already trust like Alfred.

i just think that Alfred being so willing to agree with Bruce adopting all these teenagers he clearly has no emotional capacity to take care of. is something we could take advantage of in a dead dove way. a reasonable adult would object to this. but making Alfred groom them is fun. and like i said in my dom/sub headcanon post, i think for Alfred it's all a mental game. he's never going to "force" any one to do anything. he talks Dick into it. sure, Alfred can fight and he's not defenseless or frail, but he likes not *needing* to get physical or exert strength. bc if he talks Dick into it, then it's far more questionable if it "counts" as grooming, to Dick. bc Dick agreed to all of this and it's *Alfred*, he could've easily fought him off. it's a very fun mind game and to me, the most fun part about including Alfred in Batcest as the morally questionable one.

[violent138]

[mintacle]

And another thing. I’m only going to say this very shortly because people don’t want to hear the truth, but portraying Alfred Pennyworth as the voice of reason and the normal one is a bit agist because it refuses to allow older people to be nuanced and wrong and interesting for their own sake. 

It makes his character flat and stereotyped.

[hundredpoundsofsassyandunstable]

We are robin, Alfed in disguise recruiting a bunch of teens and Gotham youth for a cause they may believe in but he organizes them, he kills one with a train (or well the kid dies due to an explosion but who put him there) and sure he DOES end up giving them resources... AFTER THE FACT??

It gives drafting, its giving, he was a soldier? or a special agent at least?

Bruce ended emotionally stunted and incapable of handling his emotions properly leading him to shutting down, shutting others away and down, lashing out, Alfred... From as much as I've seen i would expect him to like- Take a step back like "not my problem he'll grow"

Alfred still loves the kids, he can still love Bruce, and the other members of the family and still be a very toxic person.

Families and social groups are complex and have depth and all.

one of the biggest lies the fandom with tell you is that alfred pennyworth is a good man.

he’s horrible. people just don’t realize he’s horrible because they’re all too focus on the superhero’s.

not many people in the fandom know this, but alfred literally has a daughter. her name is julia. why does no one know about julia? BECAUSE HE ABANDONED HER. it’s canon that he chose the wayne’s over his OWN CHILD. when she’s introduced in the comics she hates her dad because he abandoned her in england to raise a child that wasn’t even his.

the infamous jason “a good soldier” memorial? yeah, alfred did that. bruce wanted it taken down. alfred also left jason’s destroyed robin suit on display.

alfred is the reason tim is robin. dick and bruce are trapped by two-face and alfred just… gives tim a robin costume and sends him on his way. no formal training. no nothing.

every blame dick for damian becoming robin? wrong. it was alfred. dick was against it. alfred is the first one to give damian the robin costume, like he did to tim years before. dick did eventually choose damian as his robin, but that was while damian was ALREADY ROBIN. (he even tells tim that he doesn’t pick tim to be his robin because he considers tim to be an equal, not a sidekick, but i digress)

when bane breaks bruce’s back, alfred literally packs up and leaves. he travels. he just drops everything and goes to explore the world, until dick eventually hunts him back down.

it’s also a common theme that alfred couldn’t find the right balance between being a father figure and a butler, so he was constantly enabling bruce growing up (and still does) because technically bruce was his boss… even though he had custody of him.

edit: actually technically (in some runs) bruce’s uncle has custody of him but literally makes being absent an olympic sport But you get what i mean