#Why the hell would Stolas not think Blitzo was into him?

[almacambiondaughterofsaleos]

Hellaverse Has An Entitled To Empathy Problem Because Of Their Victim Status (And How Bojack Calls It Out)

I think one thing I have noticed that is a common problem in this series is that the series thinks having a sad backstory or circumstances automatically entitles someone to empathy. It's the fact that no matter how crappy a person treats people if they are the victims of something bad they must be sympathized with despite how they treat others around them or somewhat brought their circumstances on themselves.

Biggest example is Stolas who in the series is treated as a uwu sad boy because of the abuse of his wife and he was forced into an arranged marriage. As a result, we are supposed to feel sorry when Blitzo rejects his want to have a genuine relationship while ignoring the guy fetishized him for an entire season and tries to do a hamfisted grand gesture while not thinking that it's not enough to make up for the abuse he's done to him. The same thing when he loses his status and relationship with his daughter, which the narrative tries us to feel sorry but everything that happen he did because he kept choosing his booty call over her. Stolas is meant to be portrayed as a kind hearted man whose made mistakes, but when you really see his actions he's really an entitled, spoiled asshole who whines too much and had the power to always change his circumstances but had too much of a victim complex to do so.

Angel Dust is another example in the pilot era he actually was more bearable, but in the series itself he really is like Stolas where he is depicted as an asshole but due to his abuse status we have to let it slide when he's sexually harassing people. He doesn't apologize for his actions and the person he harassed has to apologize to him for making him feel bad. Also the series treats as if he went some great character development event though we aren't shown it and most of all it shouldn't make up for the life he had previously. The series never gives us a reason to think why he should be in heaven because of just a few good toss of good deeds since he hasn't shown repentance for being a mafia gangster. He wasn't just a drug and sex addict but also someone who participated in the family business so yes he got rightfully condemned down there. And it takes a lot to make up for that bs.

And Lucifer his case is the same with Stolas he is a neglectful asshole who is giving the sad boy treatment while ignoring the hurt he's done to others like cucking Adam twice and condemning the human race to sin. But we have to feel sorry for him for being a misunderstood dreamer that heaven cast out, while fighting depression. Seriously, if this guy really was as kindhearted as the narrative shows then he wouldn't have approved hell being turned into heavily hierarchical caste system where races like imps and hellhounds are treated like shit. And again the show tries to portray him as a guy who was cut off from his daughter by no fault from of his own, but he never made an attempt to reach out to her until season one and Charlie was much too ready to accept him back into her life when he really didn't earn it.

And lastly I would have to say that the whole sinners in hell are treated as if they don't deserve the extermination and that heaven is too strict. However, despite how there are exceptions that could point to that, most of the citizens have long earned their place in hell despite saying how they are poor innocent souls be targeted. Seriously, when you see Helluva Boss there are people who want to kill others for the most petty of reasons like showing up one in high school or shipping. The exterminations don't give me sympathy for this crowd when the vast majority cause pain and misery to others so much that I want them to be smeared so bad. But yet the narrative tries to entitle us and wring us by making Adam into an one dimensional bad guy who is having fun slaughtering his descendants while our courageous heroine defends them at all cost.

It is why in Bojack that this mentality is called out because sad backstories and victim status doesn't entitle you to empathy when you are continuously treating others like shit and you try to treat people as wrong for putting their food down with you. A victim can become a victimizer and the series demonstrates that Bojack has a long list of them where he's screwed over and it even affects them to the present. It's a lesson that Viv and her staff needs to learn if she really wants to be the next Bojack, but I doubt she would do it.

[fandomtrashfox]

Me, realizing 'Stolitz' is end game for Helluva Boss apparently, and now getting to the point of wanting to avoid the show because these two definitely aren't in a healthy relationship.

Man, why - other than fan service - would Viv want these two to be together? It's so toxic!

I'm not saying Stolas is free of blame, here, but I feel like they're equally bad for each other. They're equally using each other albeit for different reasons. It's a toxic situation for both sides and I don't see how people keep forgetting that Blitzo is constantly doing a 'hot and cold' act with Stolas. Please, do not do this Viv, come on, now. Please make the end be Stolas and Blitzo permanently breaking up and moving on to healthier relationships.

[obligatory-name-change]

i like the concept of a huskerdust overlord!husk au but like. it is very much just being sold to one direction

[spopsalt]

The way the song Mastermind romanticizes Blitzo's trauma bond/codependency to Stolas is disgusting :D

Like Stolas saying "I would rather die than live life without you by my side" and Blitzo saying "I can't live life without you by my side" THAT'S NOT ROMANTIC! THAT IS CODEPENDENCY AND YOU KNOW IT! I hate it when lines like that get romanticized, it is not cute, it is U N H E A L T H Y !

Also Stolas...YOU HAVE A DAUGHTER AND YOU KNOW HOW HORRIBLE YOUR WIFE CAN BE! SO BY DYING FOR BLITZO YOU ARE KNOWINGLY LEAVING YOUR DAUGHTER WITH YOUR WIFE WHO WAS EMOTIONALLY ABUSIVE TO YOU! Worse, he didn't even THINK of Octavia, yet we're supposed to believe he's some flawed dad who's "just doing his best🥺"

FUCK THAT! He is a bad, emotionally neglectful dad, no matter how hard Viv tries to convince us otherwise. And Via is NOT required to keep her dad in her life, ESPECIALLY after she saw that he was going to give his life for Blitzo, without even thinking of her, and how it'd affect her when she saw her dad ABOUT TO FUCKING DIE! Especially when he promised that he would never leave her, and he was about to do exactly that ON TELEVISION! And Stolas KNEW that this is exactly what Via was afraid of

"Are you going to go with him and leave me behind...? Go somewhere where...I can't find you...?"

then Stolas saying

"No! No, no, no, not ever!"

...So he just fucking lied to his daughter's face, hell, no wonder why she's pissed and cut Stolas off, I'd do the same if I was in her shoes, yet people are getting angry at her for it.

I mean it's bad enough that she's romanticizing Stolas and Blitzo's relationship when Stolas fucking COERACED HIM and now you're trying to make their relationship so cute and RELATIONSHIP GOALS!

[thebadwritingofvivziepop]

Hell is bad/Actually Hell is good/Actually it's in between/Actually I don't know

The world-building of Hell is a huge mess as it constantly goes back and forth between what is supposed to be.

Is it supposed to be a place where bad people live for doing whatever they want or is it supposed to be a normal place but with demons?

Sure, Vivziepop stated that the Heaven and Hell are not supposed to be the same of the Christian mythology.

Ok, but what is it then?

In the pilot of Hazbin Hotel, it was stated that Charlie was the only good person in Hell.

Pretty much the same on Helluva Boss pilot episode.

But because Vivziepop doesn't know how to properly write villains, heroes, anti-heroes or characters who are supposed to be in between, the results show up

For example: in episode 2 season 1 of Helluva Boss I thought this about Stella.

"Helluva Boss is a comedy, so considering that they are in hell (where bad things are tolerated) Stella would have been fine if Stolas cheated on her with a Goetia demon, but draws the line with imps because she's a classist (and in hell classism would be considered good)"

But then in season 2 (as an attempt to show Stella as an awful person) suddenly we see her flexing of not being divorced yet from Stolas.

Why in Hell not being divorced is important? Wasn't Hell supposed to be chaotic and being bad is considered normal?

Even Blitzo says in the Apology Tour episode "Hello? We are in Hell!" and you know what? He had a point. They are in Hell so they are supposed to be bad...right?

Ok, so this means that morality is a thing in Hell, it's paradoxical, but ok...but then we see characters who are supposed to be "good" doing actually something bad.

Stolas being neglectful to his daughter and treating Blitzo like a sex toy for example.

Beelzebub calling out Mammon for being the sin of greed even if she's supposed to be the sin of gluttony...and then fat shaming him and accidentally (I say accidentally because I wouldn't be surprised if Vivziepop didn't think this through when she wrote those lines) being ace phobic. And also having an orphanage for hellhounds that can be killed if they are not easy to tame

Verosika

And Charlie basically doing favoritism to sinners as long they are victims of the Angels (just remember, she hasn't punished Valentino)

Because of this, it begs the questions: "what even are the rules of Hell?"

According to the story of Helluva Boss: imps and hellhounds are the lowest class and are treated like trash by other demons, but then the sins like Asmodeus and Beelzebub dates those lower-class demons basically in public and nobody bats an eye...except when Blitzo and Stolas have a relationship, then it's a problem.

And again: the sins of gluttony and lust caring about self-control and consent and then being mad at Mammon for being the sin of greed.

Here's a question: why would a demon of sin cares about how other people sin? If Asmodeus was just the "demon of eroticism" and Beelzebub the "demon of party" I would have understood that.

Only because Asmodeus and Beelzebub are the good guys in the writing they are supposed to do "good things"? But we also see them not being the good guys (as also this post points out).

Also, wasn't Charlie supposed to be the only good person in Hell trying to find the good side of everyone? Because honestly I would have preferred that and having Helluva Boss being just a dark comedy spin off where everyone is a bad person on purpose (like South Park or Seinfeild)

Yeah, in the end rules, and moralities work when it's convenient for the plot.

Which is NOT good.

In a story, when you put rules, you put consistency, and when you put consistency, you put stakes. This is why world-building is important.

I want to bring up a better world-building of hell where it shows demons as good pople (or in this case, the Realm of Demons)

"Welcome to Demon High School Iruma-kun".

In that manga is stated that yeah, hell was indeed a bad place with bad demons, but they changed throughout the years under their new leader.

While in this realm it is mentioned that demons eat humans and there are still strength competitions, you do notice that in the end, the demons act friendly and neutral to each other; as for the human-eating, the demons don't even believe in the existence of humans because they never seen one for centuries.

The villain in this case wants to bring the old ways back and making the demons scary to humans once again, which is an understandable threat.

Here: clear world-building, clear plot

[hbheavensent]

Andrealphus/Striker

Oh boy oh boy my boys- As you can see, somewhat like Loona, Striker for sure isn't fully Imp. I also wanted to explore his relationship with the Goetia in general. As for Andy here I wanted to. Make him less stupid. By a lot. So let's get right on into it here-

Andrealphus, at least in demonology, has not a god damn thing to do with ice so I have no idea where Viv got that from. In fact he has a lot more to do with space and astrology! I figured so did Stolas technically so I leaned into his OTHER thing, lyinggggg like a liar lmao. I wanted to take some inspiration from The Spiral/Distortion (TMA) and lean into his thing being mirrors and illusions. I also don't really know what I was going for with his outfit, I just know I wanted him to stand out so I pulled from Babidi and general Demon Realm stuff from Dragon Ball for that sort of look. I don't think that within the larger Goetia that his outfits are trend setting but they're def new amongst the main cast.

So in terms of his relationship with Stella and Octavia, I wanted to lean into that emotional incest side of things. Make his weird and gross comments have a purpose besides it just being… gross and uncomfortable with no service to the plot. So I leaned into him making Stella feel stupid and small, poking at her insecurities and validating all of those toxic feelings she feels. (Admittedly I'm ALSO stealing a touch from Petyr Baelish and Jamie Lannister from ASOIAF) I also thought it'd be interesting that after he gets Stolas out of the picture that he no really longer has a use for Stella, so he moves on to Octavia. Being a "kind" ear and exceptionally "understanding" of her. Really sanctioning and endorsing her anger against both of her parents, though once you become that ear for someone it's harder and harder to dissociate yourself from them. Get stuck playing the character that cares despite not really in the first place. Sure, in the end Andy will always choose himself and his power first- but that doesn't mean he doesn't have to have some complex feelings about his niece.

"I thought you were the one person in this family who cared about me!"

"Well that’s not your fault really! I’m very good at my job, and you’re… I shouldn't say, that would be cruel! Ha!"

Something along those lines is probably how it turns out.

Sooo for Striker, I wanted to focus on WHY he would hate Stolas/Blitzo, hate Goetia but still work under them. Alongside this I felt it was important to use Striker as a prime example, like Loona, of how classes in Hell effect the residents. Even beyond Imps being the lowest of the low, you can go lower within that structure. All Imps were originated from Wrath, made by Satan, there's no small amount of racism from "Pure Imps" to "Crossbreeds" in Wrath. This is something we could demonstrate with Striker, who presents himself as "Satan's perfect creation" but in reality knows who is Goetic parent is- and knows how they left his father and him out to dry. He hates royalty for being selfish and not sticking to their own, but he also can't fully fit in with Imps of any kind. It's why he covers his unique markings and rarely if ever uses his inherited Beast Taming powers. Strikers whole things is that if he can do it himself he will, but there's also the fact that he's as poor as any other Imp out there.

So, when Striker is propositioned by Andy (who is prized for his information gathering and gossip) to help him get Stolas out of the picture, he takes the angelic weapon and runs. Fully goes off the rails of just inconveniencing Stolas and being on Andy's leash the second he learns this Prince is trying to get with some Imp. Originally he tries to convince Blitzo that he's being used, just like his father was, before realizing he can't convince him- settling to just kill the fuckers instead before they ruin more lives. So much of Striker is projecting and anger towards a system that he's a victim of, but unlike Loona he's also been put out. Knowing he will outlive everyone he loves because he's looked 20 for 15 more years than he should, and to him, killing Stolas is good enough as revenge for a life he will have to live.

Stiker notably has shame about his blood, and I tried to show that in both his expression and how he tries to cover up every inch of his markings. If people know he has an unfair advantage then nothing he's done will have been worth it, he will never be poor enough, never be down trodden enough, none of what he does will put him as low as he feels he needs to be to be worth the anger.

Anyway, they both make me sick and there's more to say for sure but this is GETTING LONG and frankly I don't wanna even re-read everything so. Off it goes.

[helluvagirlboss]

Based on a conversation I had with @oversensitiveandoffputting I think that ironically, “Apology Tour” was the episode that fully convinced me that Stolitz was a relationship that could work in the long run.

Hear me out, because I know this is the episode where the state of Stolitz is the worst it’s ever been.

In every romantic relationship, you two will inevitably piss each other off and you might end up in an argument that ends badly. But after you two have said your piece how will you proceed? How will you treat them before you make up? Well “Apology Tour” gave me that answer.

Yes Blitz and Stolas opened the episode having a really brutal argument where the two of them, mainly Blitz, said a lot of hurtful and insensitive shit. But later in the episode at the Anti-Blitzo party, Blitz goes to talk to Stolas still trying to apologize even after Stolas publicly sang a song about how much Blitz hurt him and that he was “a motherfucker” (which honestly, good for Stolas, the bird needed a healthier outlet for his pain).

And when Stolas sees him, despite him being mad at Blitz, despite the fact that he is still clearly hurt by Blitz’s actions and words, and despite the fact that he is surrounded by people that would 100% be on his side if he were to expose Blitz, Stolas still tries to hide Blitz and warns him against exposing himself. Even when he’s mad at him, Stolas tries to protect Blitz.

And on Blitz’s end of things, Stolas is drunk off his ass and extremely vulnerable. Despite the fact that Blitz in that moment has the power to try to make Stolas feel worse about himself, despite the fact that Blitz is also extremely hurt by Stolas’s actions, despite the fact that Blitz could easily have chosen to leave Stolas to drink himself to the point of danger, he still chose to take care of Stolas in his drunken state and bothered to listen to what Stolas had to say and only left when Stolas asked him to.

Even when the two of them are mad at each other, confused as hell about how badly things ended, when they no longer have any obligation to each other, and are too wrapped in their own feelings to understand how the other is hurt, they are still looking after and caring about each other, even if only to the extent of ensuring things don’t go worse for the other person.

I don't know how to articulate how much this means to me because after seeing a lot of couples both fictional and in real life go through a rough patch, maybe even break up, and they proceed to treat each other just awfully because of their hurt, what Stolitz did is almost unheard of to me. They have no more obligation to each other, but they still chose to take care of each other when both of them were at their most vulnerable.

They didn't have to but they still chose to.

Now this in and of itself doesn't mean the two of them are ready to get back together. Blitz needs to unlearn his self-destructive habits born out of debilitating self-hatred, and he needs to learn that his -self-loathing will hurt the people around him because let me tell you, it hurts like hell when someone you love is determined to not accept that you care about them. And Stolas still needs to do a lot self-reflection on why his actions lead Blitz to believe that Stolas could not possibly care about him, because it also doesn't feel good when it feels like someone doesn't respect you enough to treat you like an adult.

However, the fact that the two of them still chose to be kind and attentive to each other in spite of their anger and the messiness of the situation, this tells me that when the time comes for them to have another conflict that frustrates them both, they will work to overcome it together.

They know how to have a good time together, but now they're figuring out how to have a bad time together, and honestly if this is how they treat each other when they are at their worst, I have a lot of hope for how they will handle conflict moving forward.

[signedkoko]

Hi hi!

How would Striker, Bee, and poly Stolitz (romantic) react to their chubby s/o being very physically strong and working out a lot?

No pressure to write this, and If you don't write for this many characters, you can choose who to focus on!

Sending lots of love your way 💚💛💙

-🐻

Beelzebub | Blitzo & Stolas | Striker [Romantic]

In which you are considerably physically stronger than them, and work out plenty to match.

Naturally, all of the sins are extremely strong in comparison to any overlord or sinner

Even so, you were surprisingly up there, without her magic Beelzebub couldn't begin to carry half the weight you did, and usually had to resort to her larger form- or just asking for your help

It's part of why she found you so attractive, it felt like in some way you could protect her more than anyone she knew

A lot of the people around her were already small, so it was also nice that you compared to her in size, though she found you to be much more curvaceous than her own lanky figure

" Ugh. I'd kill for hips like these, babe. "

She loves to feel you up and down and hold you close because god, you are just sooo comfortable

And when you flex your muscles it drives her crazy! She thinks you're the hottest person she's ever met

She also may be partially to blame for your chubbiness, because she never stops feeding you sweets, oops!

Both of these fools are physically WEAK, however strong they might be with guns or magic

They recall their first encounter with you was when someone was making fun of Stolas for dating an imp, and you totally rocked their shit with a punch straight to the face

Blitzo is already on you, asking so many questions about who you were, why you did that, making jokes

And Stolas has a faint blush because god, that was so attractive

They kept inviting you over until eventually you were closer than most- present on every date, called by the same sweet nicknames

Stolas likes to go with you when you work out, he especially loves to see you boxing

Being able to cheer you on against an opponent, or imagine you protecting him- oh it was just so exciting

Blitzo enjoys walking around hell with you because he gets to see everyone fuck off

Scary dog privileges

Stolas is always squishing your cheeks and hugging you tightly while speaking of all his fantasies involving you both

Blitzo is sneaking pictures of you after workouts for his office

Stronger? Than him? Sure thing

Striker first heard it at a place he frequented for drinks, that there was a guard for hire poster put up on their bulletin, someone new

When he hired you to see what'd happen, you sweeped the floor of some royals security team in minutes, and all he had to do was pull the trigger

Admittedly, he didn't feel the need to work with you more than that, as he enjoyed the hunt as much as the kill

But it was certainly fun seeing what someone else pulled

He’s straightforward about that, but also admits that he'd like to keep in touch

OBVIOUSLY so he can hire you on tougher missions, not because he thought you were interesting or fun

Suddenly, he's always popping up in the places you go, always offering you a drink, always getting tipsy enough to invite you to dance

Oh yeah, he certainly wants you

Fortunately for him, you're his lovely significant other only a few weeks later

He enjoys practising sparing with you, though he usually loses with just strength to strength, hsi wits certainly make him a tougher opponent

Striker find your resolve fiery, and something about you ignites something in him that leaves him wanting more

Author's Note - Actually love these guys sm... good crew you chose bear non I respect it!

Also I CATCH all the love you sent my way and EAT IT 🖤

[animeshotsh]

Never your first | Various x Reader | ANGST |

Summary: You may love them, and they may love you too, but not in the same way.

Warnings: ANGST - Sad - Mentions of sex (no explicit) -

Lucifer

When he fell you were quick to follow. History knows about him, the beautiful first angel who fell and his beloved wife Lilith. No one knows you, the second angel who fell. Why did you ? Because you loved Lucifer and believed in his words. You two were best friend and inseparable, soulmate some have said.

But he choose Lilith, had a daughter with her. And you saw all of it by the side, smiling and supporting but being broken inside.

And when she left him and Charlie, you saw him how sad he was, depress and the worse? He still loved her. You were there for him during his best moments and there to hold him at worse.

"Oh (Y/N)...im so lucky to have you as my best friend"

Charlie

Falling for Charlie was easy, like how could you not ? She was kind, sweet, everything no one was in hell. You believed in her dreams, long before she met Vaggie...

But you saw it unfold in front of your eyes, the love story between them was one from a fairy tale, and you were the side character. You liked seeing her happy and Vaggie was a good person but you wanted to be her.

"Oh (Y/N), I love her so much! Do you think she would agree to even marry me?"

Vaggie

Being the older sister/brother of Charlie mean following her around hell and supporting her. No one would date hurt her, but she being naive was something that could hurt her no less.

The night you met Vaggie your heart fell, it started to beat fast and hard as you saw her poor form being so hurt.

But her eyes were not on you, they were on Charlie, looking at her and Charlie looked at her back with love. Something your parents once had.

Vaggie did love you, as the relative of her girlfriend, and knew you were the protector of her. She knew she could be used easily by others so she was thankful that you were there for her.

"(Y/N) thanks for protecting Charlie all these years, I could never ask for a better in law"

Alastor

Being Alastor's friend had his ups and downs. You knew he was not captable of loving you the way you loved him, you were happy being his best friend.

But saddly you were not that. His best friend, the one he truly would never betray or use was Rosie who was in fact your friend as well.

"(Y/N) dont make me laught, and put a smile on your face. You are never fully dressed without one"

Vox

You saw Vox being used and abused by Valentino all the time. You loved him and wanted nothing more than to have a company together with him and only him. But Vox was addicted to Valentino and to the fame. No matter how many times he got beated up or had to watch him fuck others, he still loved him and not you.

"A show together? Well (Y/N) I believe you doing your show on your own are fine, the rating is good, besides what would the public say if they saw us alone and together?"

Stolas

Stolas and you, friends as old as stars. You two would watch the born and death of them. Would share your dreams together. You never supported his marriage with Stella and knew he was getting worse and worse, keeping the family together because of his daughter.

Saddly finally, once he had broke things off with her someone else did appear.

Blitzo or Blitz who had been his lover and turned out he loved him.

You never tought of imps as less but why? Why did he pick him and not you ? What did he had ? Specially when at the end he was still not happy.

You were back there, holding him in your arms as he cried again but this time because of someone who was not you.

And it would never be you.

[flower-boi16]

https://www.tumblr.com/flower-boi16/774678304341016576/i-thought-you-already-learnt-in-literacy-class

yeah, the issue isn't wanting the show to have a moral spelled out at the end or even that stol1tz is problematic.

the issue is that the show outright romanticizes its problematic ship - it isn't trying to be some character study of two messed up people without wanting the audience to come to any conclusions. It's blatantly obvious that the show is designed to make the audience think two things:

one: Stolas is only a tiny bit not really flawed and is basically the innocent wronged party in the relationship breakdown and 99% of the problems were caused by Blitzo and his insecurities and selfishness

and two: they actually want us to root for Stol1tz to work out.

and anyone who points out that they have no chemistry or that how Stolas started and continued the whole affair is textbook sexual extortion (something which the show has completely swept under the rug and refused to address) somehow gets accused of being a puritan or having low media literacy? even though critics are ones actually paying attention to the details that suggest stol1tz is a car crash waiting to happen and Stolas has been nothing but babied through the entirety of s2?? make it make sense

absolutely nothing about their duet in mastermind reads ironic, it's all terribly trite and sincere in expecting the audience to think their romance is tragic and moving. there's no reason to think the show is all that interested in exploring the dynamics of a messy relationship because the show outright refuses to meaningfully discuss the worst and messiest part of it except in passing i.e. the transactional deal. ffs, they spent all of apology tour calling Blitzo and Stolas "exes" when they never even dated. the show is outright rewriting its own history solely to avoid talking about the messy stuff because it would make Stolas look bad

also it's incredibly rich that people keep pulling out the "you just want a morality tale where you're told what to think, and that's bad writing!" card when this is literally what apology tour was. the show was outright screaming at the viewer to think that Stolas is the victim, that Blitzo is way worse than s1 had built him up to be and that Blitzo needed to apologize. the whole thing is structured around the moral of Blitzo needing to apologize and Verosika outright saying the point of the episode: "if you wanna change, say good for him (when he runs off to make out with someone else first chance he gets after claiming he loved you)"

I mean Blitzo basically says to the camera "the only reason I rejected Stolas was because the class difference made me insecure and I push away everyone who could care about me". it's incredibly blunt, garbage obvious storytelling

the writing isn't subtle at any other time (cough cough, Stella, cough) but suddenly when it comes fans asking why the writers aren't calling Stolas out for basically any of his shit suddenly the show is treated like some nuanced high art character drama where no one is allowed to openly discuss the sexual extortion shaped elephant in the room.

and it's blatantly not that. the closest helluva ever got to well done storytelling was in s1 and Viv flushed all that down the toilet the minute s2e1 happened

I still find it amazing how my post critisizing the fandom for not knowing what the actual critiques of the show are still holds up today. These are the kinds of fans that pretend that the highest amount of hard-hitting critique for Helluva and Hazbin comes from randos on tumblr when the critisicm these shows get extends far more than just tumblr. If anything, tumblr is less than a FRACTION of the people voicing their issues with the show.

And, if you actually payed attention to discourse surrounding the series on other platforms, mainly youtube....you would find people have far more nuanced critiques than "PROBLAMATIC = BAD!!!".

HELL, Sarcastic Chorus, one of the most popular Youtuers discussing the series, initially liked Stolitz BECAUSE of the problamatic elements, but he stopped carring for it because the show WASN'T ACTUALLY ADDRESSING THEM!!!!

But these fans focus more on trying to strawman critics rather than actually trying to meaningfully engauge with disscussion on the issues with the shows.

Because they can't handle people critisizing their favourite demon show.

[chaifootsteps]

Even the 4 year old comments of the Stolas call video you liked mention how Stolas was watching and knew Blitzo was in danger. One even brings up the possibility of Stolas altering a bullet's trajectory to save Blitzo.

yo. anyone notice Stolas' hand glows red right at the end before he says "enticing" and there's red around that bullet hole in the tree? My dude just saved Blitz so he didn't shave his nuts for nothing. [@ username of someone who said it was just the lighting] yea but remember stolas can see blitzo through his bubbles so he could also be seeing where shes shooting and helping to deflect the bullets!😊

To which many agreed, even up to a year ago! It has over 600 likes and 1 only sceptic reply.

Woah that's a very good observation right there you could go further , by extension (no pun intended), that all the shots fired were deflected or centered towards blitzo to put him in a situation where, when Stalos was asking him for his "favor", Blitzo eventually decided to say "fuck it, I'll do it" realize that, if Stolas does have the ability to protect him in any way (as it is assumed) , he could have deflected all the shots that were fired... Holy shit!

The fact that this is even a possibility — especially since that hand glow was never given an in-universe reason — is insane since it's the very same scene people so vehemently claim is 100% consensual for all parties.

And then there are other comments that feel like relics of a saner time. Besides the ones that say Pinkham fits Stolas better because he makes him sound gayer and "cute uwu" which is... A take with no off implications whatsoever and should not have been the foreshadowing it is. But at least people can tell Stolas is sketchy! I'm assuming these were written pre-LooLoo Land but if it wasn't I am so proud of these people for not forgetting his horrid behaviour just because 'sad dad moment'.

Is this why Blitzø installed a silent alarm made for Stolas? The minute I heard Blitzo say "Stolas!" I was like "Uh oh XD" Everyone in this show swears as casually as drawing breath so what in the world does Stolas say that it needs to be bleeped? 0:18 That wasn’t just a poorly timed call... Stolas was Scrying on Blitzo to offer that deal when he wasn’t in a position to talk back. 0:48 The ONLY reason the arraignment can be called “favors for favors” is simply because of how massively it works to both parties advantage. -Stolas, prince of hell, king of manipulation XD Blitz agreed to that arrangement Why is no one talking about this? -Sounds less like an enthusiastic "Yes" and more like "sure, fine, whatever, just shut up and let me be" -[@ above reply] Okay fair I'm just wondering if that's going to hit him later and then he's gonna freak out -[@ above reply] oh definitely I feel bad for Blitzo and Stella, he just wants to keep the book and his company's going, I understand that what hes doing with Stolas is Just "business", but stolas is just too pushy. Plus if hes going to cheat on his wife he can at least get a divorce. Honestly I think stella should hire blitzo to kill her husband, that way the both of them dont have to deal with him, plus blitzo can just keep the book without having to satify Stoles perverted bird needs, and stella can just find a better husband.

I like to think Stolas actually has all the spells in the grimoire memorized and is just using the situation to get dates with Blitzo - If Stolas doesn’t need the book then it would explain why he isn’t so worried about it - That would explain a plot hole Stoles is stil doing his Job and not post posing it to one night a month wich is even shorter than that if Blizo keep his end of the bargen even for a demon that must be impossible. - That is more or less the reason for Stolas. He just wants Blitzo to give him that "Passionate Fornication" at least once a month. - From what we've in the season two opening, that's extremely possible. It shows how much he loves books, so he probably does know all the spells - Or that was some kind of punishment for stealing 😂😂😂

Even as soon as a year ago people were giving Stolas more consistency than the show. Why wouldn't a book-loving nerd memorise his spells? Why would Stolas only ask for sex with someone he supposedly cares about beyond sex? Why was Blitzo's stealing completely ignored narratively except for one snippy line that it is completely possible to read as unrelated to that moment? That comment chain especially reeks of people desperate for a well told show that makes sense, that has consistency.

It's always a double-edged swords going through comments from saner times like these. On one hand, you come away with proof that things really were saner back then and it's not just a case of everything looking better in the rear view mirror...on the other, it's proof of how far things have declined. Mention that Blitz's consent was obviously coerced nowadays and they'll call you homophobic.

[faemytho]

First of all, the way Stolas immediately knew what the trial was about when all he saw was Blitzo about to be executed means that Stolas knew what he was doing was illegal. He just loved Blitzo more than he cared about the law.

Stolas KNEW it was illegal to let Blitzo use the grimoire. Someone of his status? He absolutely KNEW it was illegal, he knew there would be consequences (maybe not what they were, but that there would be), and he let Blitzo use it anyways because.

BECAUSE. Letting Blitzo use the grimoire was an excuse to keep seeing him. Stolas knew it was illegal and did it anyways because he's in love with Blitzo.

SECOND OF ALL, Stolas didn't HESITATE. Stolas showed up and took Blitzo's place on the chopping block while under the impression he was going to be killed for this crime.

He immediately knew what the trial was about, saw what the consequences were, and then didn't hesitate to put himself in Blitzo's place. ESPECIALLY when he kneeled down to be executed.

He was GENUINELY going to give his life for Blitzo to live, and he was genuinely so surprised when he was told he wasn't going to be killed.

THIRD OF ALL, god. Fuuuuck. It is so interesting to see Stolas' thought process here, because Stolas genuinely didn't think that the consequences for imps vs goetic demons for breaking the same law were so drastically different.

Sure, Stolas can play the part and spout the same classist nonsense about imps that he very likely grew up hearing. He knew that was what he had to do to get everyone in there to listen to him and let Blitzo go. But HE HIMSELF genuinely doesn't think of himself as above Blitzo or any of the other imps when he shows up in that courtroom. (It's also why he later gets Blitzo the crystal to use instead of his grimoire; he's aware of the classism in their relationship, but isn't familiar with how to navigate it, especially when the other person in the relationship is Blitzo, but that's a WHOLE OTHER ESSAY.)

Anyways, that's why Stolas kneels down on the chopping block after successfully taking Blitzo's place, AND it's why he's so surprised he isn't going to be executed. The look on Stolas' face was very, "Wait, you guys actually believe you're better than imps? You're not just playing a part? I thought we were being serious right now."

Stolas is aware there's a class difference between him and Blitzo, but he genuinely didn't believe in it, and genuinely didn't think it was an issue. He genuinely didn't think anyone else believed it either! His theatre kid ass probably thought it was all an elaborate social act and that nobody really thought that imps were lower than other demons. (side note, from an autistic person, that's so autism coded of u stolas.)

And that indifference Stolas has about their class difference is EXACTLY what drove Blitzo's fears about the nature of their relationship in the first place. For the entirety of Season 2, we've seen that it's been an issue for Blitzo's ENTIRE life! It's what he built his business on!!! And his last words?

"All I was trying to do was rise above the stupid fucking place YOU ALL FORCED US INTO!"

But now, Stolas IS on the level of imps. Not only is he going to experience the classism the rest of hell holds towards imps, but not even the IMPS like him! And with the sudden HUGE fame Blitzo's gained, Stolas and Blitzo have effectively SWITCHED PLACES.

The difference is, this time, they'll be able to help each other.

[cmyk-anaglyph-honeycomb]

Helluva Boss S2 E11

(this is mostly in order but not really. I have a lot of thoughts and its 1am) How did stella know about the 'break up' in the first place? Was she also at the party or did someone she know go? Did she hear it through the grapevine of imps she defiantly talks too? So that on the run shit was just for the trailer huh? Actually thought this was going to get interesting, my mistake. I should've known better. Luna being muzzled is decent world building on how she is just viewed as an animal. But also her character does so little outside of being blitzo's daughter or a hazard to Moxxie that she could have just been an actual dog with aggression issues. Why is Andrealphus focused on pointing the blame on Blitzo and not Stolas? The book was getting miss-used either way and Stolas was his actual aim, so why try to write him off? Also, why is he so against stolas. At this point it can't just be for Stella because it doesn't seem like he likes her. At this point I'm waiting for it to be a thing where Andrealphus arranged for Stella and Stolas's marriage to gain power from his family or something. He is putting in too much effort for it just to be out of pettiness. Who is Vassago and why is he here? Dude is a prop not a character. If Andrealphus (god I hate his name) would have just had Stolas on trial at first and the imps were just witnesses that would flow better. [sidenote: It could have been a thing where IMP would have greatly benefited from condemning stolas and Blitzo choses to tell the truth and cost to himself to help Stolas out. It would show stolas that Blitzo actually cared.] Not a fan of how the other deadly sins are just dropped on us without much fan fair. They were kinda the one thing I was looking forward too. It really felt like the musical part was crafted first and everything else was written around it. What was the point of satan singing about how he is the top boss and all that? No one was saying how they are the mastermind of hell or anything, just this one collection of bullshit. We get it big man, you're in charge. (Sidenote: I do like his design, its kinda basic for a satan character, but still good. I love his voice when speaking and singing. The song he sings is good, the point of it is not.) So there are zero stakes in this show. None. Kinda makes it hard to care about the outcome if everything has a soft ending. Stolas loses his powers, that we rarely see him use. He can't see his daughter, that we barely see him around. He loses nothing that we see him show any interest or care given too. Stella's evil smile means nothing either. She is a nothing character to make Stolas look better. At this point she shouldn't be in the show she does so little. Why was this trial about Andrealphus and not her? If stella was supposed to be this super evil and manipulative character why is she so far on the back burner for her own plan? Would have been a great time to have a woman character actually do something out of their own desire shitty or not, instead of just helping out some man but okay. Andrealphus should've just been Stolas's shit brother who wanted his power instead of wasting our time with Stella. *That's all I got in me for right now. Again its 1am after black friday and my ass works retail so I'm done thinking for now. Might come back to this later.*

[gingebreadbeetle]

Wanna know why this is so fucking bad?

These demons started out as so insufferable, terrible, sinful, when Stolas actually acted like an actual Demon Prince and now they act way too much like Humans and honestly this is like a mess of dark mature themes, y'know stories that put in dark mature themes just to seem cool about it, I don't think they have actually solved anything

Blitzo shouldn't have even QUESTIONED anything at all about his kill mission, apparently Vivzie thought he should cuz if he didn't, it would make him a hypocrite cuz he was in a similar circumstance, even though Demons would not even care what hypocrisy is cuz they ARE hypocrisy

I mean sure I had good faith in this show, Helluvaverse of Vivzie did have a great start, but now it's just so boring and I wanted a show of demons, not humans acting like they're Demons

Man I was so obsessed with Hazbin Hotel when its trailer first came out, now it's just sad

I’m in the same boat man.

Hazbin and Helluva came out, ( pilot hazbin, I should clarify) and I was a big fan.

I was excited that there was a show that tackled demonology and hell because! That’s my jam! And the shows seemed very interesting!!!

But it’s clear that Viv doesn’t care for interesting. Hell is a backdrop, her characters are puppets to further a hollow and inconsistent story which is animated by either underpayed workers or artists that Viv favors that are total creeps.

[thebadwritingofvivziepop]

Empathy is about being nice to those who are 100% like you, according to Vivziepop

Ok, it's a stretch, but I feel a pattern here about her characters who are "good people on the inside"…or like Vivziepop would joke: "Have good…inside of them" (ok, now that the cringy joke is done we can move to the point)

Angel "I only care about you if Valentino is here" Dust

I haven't noticed it until someone pointed this problem out in a review that I was watching on Hazbin Hotel.

But in episode 6, the episode where Charlie wants to prove to the Heavens that the Hotel work, has a…let's just say something questionable.

Ok, the episode is full of questionable scenes, but I wanna focus on a certain scene that many people pointed out.

The rape of Sir Penteius.

Everyone pointed out the obvious problem: we had episode 4 that wanted us to take Angel Dust problem with Valentino very seriously, but then in this episode we have to watch Sir Penteius getting gang raped and we're supposed to laugh at it (which is one of the reasons why morality in hell doesn't make sense).

Charlie literally doesn't look like she gives a crap about seeing one of her clients getting gang raped in her hotel, she doesn't even ask him how he feels once she's back in hell or finding those who did this to him. Why? Because it's a "funny scene" and we're supposed to laugh at watching a guy getting raped.

It's kind of funny when we consider that in the exact same episode Angel comes back at the hotel hurt because Val made him "work" for 16 hours straight and is treated as something funny.

And remember: Angel still is with Val because Charlie doesn't want to punish Valentino because it would have been mean, and yet she has no problem at fighting angels… (have I told you how much I hate Charlie in this show? Charlie from the pilot would have never let Angel still be with Valentino).

But then something else happens. Angel sees Nifty running towards Val and stops her (even if technically Val wasn't doing anything to her).

Angel Dust gets punched by Val for trying to stand up and protecting Nifty and this for Charlie is enough to say to the angels "see? He can be redeemed!"

Now, I'm gonna break this down to you.

Adam shouldn't have responded with, "Then why isn't he in Heaven, then?" He should have responded with, "Why didn't he help the other guy who got dragged into a gang rape?!"

Because remember, Angel Dust saw that!

He saw Sir Penteius getting dragged into a room and getting gang raped. He saw him getting out after spending a nightmare there. And in all this he didn't care because the writing wanted to make the Sir Penteius scene funny.

This makes Angel Dust looking bad actually, because it makes you think that for him rape is fine until Val is involved.

He only helped Nifty because he saw her getting close to Val, if she got close to another predator, he wouldn't give a damn.

He could have saved Sir Penteius anytime because he knows what is like being a sexual object, but he didn't only because none of the perpetrators was Val.

Verosika "I have a hate-boner for my ex" Mayday

I already pointed out in this post, but I'll bring this up, anyway.

The Apology Tour episode is the one that made Verosika look even more of a sociopath that she already is (while also making Stolas a total hypocrite)

Verosika throws a party every year, inviting all Blitzo's exes to "help" them heal from the breakup by making them remember how much they hate Blitzo.

This doesn't make her look like a good person, but like someone who didn't moved on from her breakup that she wants to make her ex be miserable as possible.

She could have made a party to everyone who went through a breakup, instead she chooses only Blitzo exes.

I have no words to describe shortly how twisted that is.

Like, imagine if she has a friend or a fan who went through a breakup and her answer is "was it Blitzo? No? Then you're on your own"

This is why in my post about her I pointed out that if Vivziepop wanted to make her look good, she should have invited anyone who went through a breakup.

Also, I wonder how she met those exes, I wouldn't be surprised if unironically it turns out that she actually stalked Blitzo since the breakup and is told as a joke.

Blitzo "cheating is ok if you're gay"

Well, we all know that would have happened.

The Sinsmas episode.

In this episode a sinner tells to Blitzo to kill her ex because he cheated on her and he was ready and happy to do that…but he doesn't because he realizes that the man cheated with another man and the two have two daughters.

Because he sees them as him and Stolas and their daughters, aww…so disgusting.

A lot of people rightfully called this hypocrisy out.

In episode one from season one, he had no problem at killing a family because the mother was the woman who had sex with the husband of their client.

Sure, some people defend this by saying "oh, but it turned out that this was a cannibal family who worshipped Satan"

Ok, but explain then the HB short where Blitzo and Loona brutally kill an innocent man who was just a good person…

He could have a second thought because, as he saw the man taking care of the orphans, he saw himself with Loona.

But no, this makes Blitzo look like a total hypocrite

If his client in Sinsmas said "he cheated on me with another man" and Blitzo still accepted the request but stopped once he saw the two daughters, that would have made him look a bit better.

If the cheater was with another woman but Blitzo still notices how happy they are together with their daughters and still sees himself with Stolas, it would have been better.

But alas, as I was taking my notes and the short came out, we just notice that Blitzo didn't have an evolution at all.

He only kills everyone unless it's a gay couple with two daughters.

Vivziepop, let me give you a lesson about what empathy actually is.

You don't feel empathy just because the other people are 100% like you, empathy is when you put yourself on another person's shoes and understand them.

It doesn't matter if they are just like you, it doesn't matter if they went through your exact same struggle.

But in your show, your characters have the same empathy of Anton Chigurh.

[doodler16]

Please hear my essay about narratives and expectations, common general audience reaction and distorced fandom fanatism reaction.

The thing is, when people criticized the characters actions, it would be swept under the rug as it's hell everyone is shitty (which when Blitzo is the one to say it to Stolas, suddenly is no excuse).

The narrative, being in hell, is sensible to be a character morality based.

Like, if I steal from you it's fine, it's hell! If you steal from me fuck off!

That's why (also because of the entertainment) we are fine when our protags are murdering, but hurt when they are in danger.

The setting allows and is expectwd for a PROTAGONIST CENTERED morality!

Which means we care for them and how they are treated, by each other too!

If you can lift up your disbelief and if it's what you are looking for... not automatically a bad thing, seeing characters just being awful to each other has entertainment.

But hazbin is about redemption and the residents bonding!

And helluva about imp bonding and LOTS OF MURDER!

When characters were criticized for their treatment to each other, some would dismiss it's hell.

But now they are not even allowed to be evil, even if it's HELL.

Only millie now was okay with the sinmass family murder, being, you know, a demon assassin!

Every thing blitzo does is villainezed by fandom and narrative, deserved or not.

They lack now bad natural hellish traits. Because god forbid the stans think they do bad things now (especially stolas, you know, a demon prince).

And a character centered morality means, Yes even if the antagonists are just acting normal like in hell, we as fans of the characters dislike them.

Also, there is natural a limit of "fine" the audience can take, character is a murderer in any media, people can tolerate according to the narrative, a character is a rapist, it's natural to be alienating even in works protag centered!

Fans of valentino are fine to like him, he's fictional! Problem? They feel attacked, hate, and attack people who wants valentino dead (surprise! Most people dont like a rapist, and a rapist that goes after one of protags)

Also there's double standard in this fandom. Lute is antagonism, natural of being in heavens army? She's a monster! But Adam was fine!

Alastor owning husk, there are criticism but most let it slide.

The Sin of greed! The sin of greed antagonism as he owns fizz? Monster!, even by its hell people.

Oh and the narrative! He stuff food in his mouth the sin of GLUTTONY is disgusted???!!

And Stella! It's natural to hate her as she's an antagonist. BUT SHE'S SEEN AS THE WORST MONSTER EVER!

Even though she is acting like your average demon.

Yes we can criticize her actions, but it's absurd the level of hate when she did nothing worst than the protags themselves!

She calls a hit on stolas and is complete evil!

Our protagonists are hired murders!

The stans hate anyone who likes stella!

She is a fictional character! it is as fine as liking valentino, yet the fandom loathes and attacks her and her fans more than the rapist????

Even as a child, Stella was seen as a monster despite going through the same traumatic experience as Stolas. The morality in and outside of both shows are very weird. Hazbin Hotel and Helluva Boss picks and choose which character we are supposed to root for.