#Superhero Analysis

[ballinandcantgetup452]

Can we stop calling The Punisher a hero?

I'm sick and tired of the glorification of The Punisher. Frank Castle is a sick man whose happy place is being in a war and it doesn't really matter what or who he's warring against. He never started this crusade for revenge. If it was for revenge, then he would've gone home like 3 weeks in to Punishering it up.

Frank Castle is not a hero. He’s not some tough-as-nails, misunderstood anti-hero. He’s not some tough teeth gritting vigilante with a heart of gold. You're thinking of Wolverine. No, he’s a murderer. Plain and simple. That’s his whole thing. That’s what he does. That’s all he does. He doesn’t fight for justice, he doesn’t save people; he kills. And yet, people still put him on this twisted pedestal, like he’s the symbol of the moral gray and justification. And I’m so sick of it.

Yeah, sure, this is the Marvel Universe, where logic bends, where guys in tights throw buildings and teenagers can swing between skyscrapers like it’s no big deal. Ethics get fuzzy when you have gods and mutants and billionaire playboys. But what Frank does goes beyond all of that. Because Frank Castle is a bad man. A sick man. A man whose entire life is wrapped up in a never-ending war he never really wanted to end.

He lives in a van or warehouse full of guns and weapons, and he’s still out there, free, because he's too violent, too ruthless for anyone to deal with. Nobody stops him. Nobody can truly stop him. Not because he's some anti-hero with a tragic backstory. Once again, you're thinking of Wolverine. It's because he's a walking, talking, killing machine who’ll unload a clip in your face before you even think about it. People think he’s a badass. They think he’s cool. No. He’s a psychopath. A man who is only happy and defines himself by being in the middle of a war.

Don’t get me wrong; I like the character. I really do. But, I read his comics the way you might watch a true crime documentary about Jeffrey Dahmer. You’re not rooting for Dahmer. You’re horrified by him. But you’re fascinated. You’re trying to understand what makes a person tick when their clock is so broken. That’s The Punisher. There’s something raw, something almost cathartic about watching one man wage his own war against crime with no empathy, no mercy, just a hell of a lot of ultraviolence. And yeah, everyone gets in that mood every once in a while.

But here’s what gets me: people out there, actual people, glorify this. They paint his skull on their cars, their jackets, their walls. They act like he’s some kind of symbol of tough love or real justice. But Frank Castle would hate that. He’s said it himself — "Captain America would love to have you. I would not." He despises anyone who sees him as a role model because he knows what he is. He’s not confused. He’s not conflicted. He’s not trying to be a better person. One more time, you're thinking of Wolverine. Frank Castle is a monster.

And he knows it.

So let’s call it out. Call out the people who put Frank Castle on a pedestal like he’s something to aspire to. You wanna read a tough teeth gritting vigilante? Go read Frank Miller’s Batman or Daredevil. You want someone morally gray, someone who actually grapples with the weight of what they do? Check out Moon Knight. But if you want to peer into the mind of a deeply broken, deeply dangerous man, then yeah, read The Punisher. Just don’t fool yourself into thinking he’s anything other than what he is: a guy who likes to kill people, who lives to kill people, and who’s damn good at it.

Frank Castle is not a hero. And he never will be.

[artbyblastweave]

A few years ago, there was a thread on r/asksciencefiction where someone was fishing for a superhero story with an inverted Omni-Man dynamic, or a setting where Homelander's initial presentation is played straight- a setting where the Superman figure actually is the paragon of morality he's initially presented as, but no other superhero is- a situation where you've got one really competent true-blue hero standing head-and-shoulders in power above what's otherwise a complete nest of vipers.

Someone in the thread floated My Hero Academia; while I haven't read it, my understanding is that that's not really an accurate read of what's going on with Stain's neurosis about All-Might being the only "real hero," that the point of that arc is that Stain's got an insane and unreasonable standard and that taking an endorsement deal, while bad, isn't actually grounds for execution. My own contribution to the thread was Gail Simone's Welcome to Tranquility, where a major part of the backstory involved the faux Justice-League's Superman analogue having a little accident because he's the only one who thought they were morally obligated to go public with the secret life-extending macguffin that the rest of the team is using to enforce comic-book time on themselves and their loved ones; while only a couple members of the team are directly in on it, the rest are conveniently incurious. And Jupiter's Legacy gets tantalizingly close to this- The Utopian, a well-meaning stick-in-the-mud, ultimately gets blindsided and couped by his scheming brother who creates a superhero junta staffed by a Kingdom-Come-style glut of third-gen superheroes, who are framed as fundamentally self-interested because only came onto the scene after most of the situations you legitimately need a superhero to handle have been neutralized. (The rub, of course, is that the comic is also highly critical of the Utopian's intellectually incurious self-righteously 'apolitical' approach to superheroism- if for no other reason than that it left him in a position to get blindsided by a coup!) While Jupiter's Legacy gets the closest, all three of these are only loosely orbiting around the spirit of the original idea, and there's something really interesting there- particularly if the Superman figure isn't hopelessly naive in the same way as Utopian. Because first of all, if you're Metaman or Amazingman or whatever brand-name alias the writer goes with, and you really earnestly mean it, and you put together a team of all the other most powerful heroes on earth in order to pool your resources, and then with dawning horror you gradually begin to realize that everyone in the room besides yourself is a fascist or a con artist or abuser or any other variant of a kid with a magnifying glass eyeing that anthill called Earth- What the hell is your next move?

Do you just call the whole thing off? Can you trust that they'll actually go home if you call the whole thing off? I mean you've put the idea in their heads, are you sure that they aren't going to, like, start the Crime Syndicate in your absence? Do you stick around to try and enact containment, see if getting all of these people on a team makes them easier to keep on a leash? But that's functionally going to make you their enabler pretty quickly, right? Overlooking "should you kill them-" can you kill them? You're stronger than any individual one of them- are you stronger than all of them? The first time one of them really crosses a line in a way you can't ignore- will that be a one-on-one fight? Are they the kind of people capable of putting two-and-two together and pre-emptively ganging up on you if you push back too hard? Do you just start trying to get them killed, or keep them at each other's throats so they can't coordinate anything really nasty? Can you squeeze any positive moral utility out of them, or is that just a way to justify not doing the hard work of taking them down? There've been works where the conceit is to question the default assumption that Superman in specific would be a good person, and there've been works where the conceit is to question the default assumption that superheroes in general would be good people. Something to be done, I think, with questioning the default assumption that everyone Superman becomes professionally close to would be good, and to explore how he'd handle it if they weren't.

[gojosbf]

i know many people are complaining about megumi '"living for someone else" instead of himself part but you've got to understand that there is no right or wrong way to get over depression, it effects different people differently. while i would've loved seeing megumi get his revenge and be a total badass but i also understand this plot choice. one doesn't cure their mental health and go on to conquer it's cause immediately, so i get it.

this is his first step towards himself because while he phrased the choice as "to live for someone else" he did have to choose to not give up on himself to get here. this is only the beginning, he will get there, he is still recovering from all the trauma but slowly and surely he will learn to live for himself, give it time.

[gayofthefae]

I just realized something so sweet and personal about Will's painting.

Their DnD characters don't look like that. We saw him draw them plenty in season 1. Will the Wise has a long beard and Mike's character I think has straight blond hair.

Will didn't just draw their characters per usual, he drew them as their characters. He's drawn Mike's knight character a hundred times. But he's never drawn Mike as a knight. He was understanding that Mike's character is a projection of who he aims to be, like all of them, so he drew MIke as the knight this time. For the first time.

That's what this smile is. Mike has played a hero for years. But he's never been one. He saw a dragon and probably expected his character, overjoyed with more of Will's familiar art, but instead, he was met with a glorious knight in shining armor with black, wavy hair. He was the hero this time. *(you can even see his facial expression change from happy excitement to this broad smile)

In season 1, Mike initiates the search party because of Will's heroics in DnD meaning that he would do it for them. He acknowledges that Will's actions in character are still his own. This is the same. This is Will saying "To play a hero, you have to be one yourself. And you are. I see through your character disguise. I see you. This is just the hero you've always been without the mask."

THAT is why it's different. THAT is why it's so much more personal than all the others, not just the heart, MIKE. THAT is why it hurts so bad (Will too but I'm referring to me/us).

I've said in a previous post that it wasn't about the heart, the heart was kind of for us, it was more-so about the heroism. And that's exactly what I standby. The heart isn't the only new thing about this painting. The hero has never actually been Mike before. And Will responded "Yes it has been. It always has been."

[kacievvbbbb]

I need someone that believes in magic to get ahold of Batman again. He is an overly serious man that runs around in an admitted bat suit fighting a gimmick rouge gallery. And he is doing it because he sincerely believes in a better tomorrow and somewhere along the way we have lost the plot. Batman wasn’t created to punish the guilty that is actually completely antithetical to his beliefs he is not the fucking punisher.

Batman just like wonder woman and Superman primarily wants to save people! sure he doesn’t do it in a sunny way but that is still what drives him. Hell he even goes a step further and actually builds a case he’s not just waiting for criminals to commit the crime he is shutting down smuggling and trafficking rings foiling plots he is a detective! For Christs sake it’s what made him so unique and fun as a superhero.

Also His desire to save people is literally what compels him to adopt Dick, Jason, Stephanie. Cass because he wanted to give these kids a chance, to save them in ways 8year old him wasn’t. Someone who just wants to punish the guilty wouldn’t do that, And now they have turned him into a borderline physically and emotionally abusive absentee parent all in the name of making him an edge lord. Where is the heart! Where is the fucking heart in it all! Where are the kids and the bright colors and the zaniness. Let Batman and Gotham be FANTASTICAL! I’m tired of the greys and the browns.

I’m tired of “grounding a story” meaning sucking all the joy and color out if it. Also superhero stories don’t need to be grounded in your fucking abysmal reality they are literally superheroes they exist outside of reality, let them!

A story does not have to be joyless to have depth and it does not have to be nihilist to be compelling.

I am sick and I am tired of it. 😔

[cyanidespideycup]

I think a lot of people conflate superheroes as a whole to specifically Batman when it comes to the importance of a life. It makes sense, supers are meant to be put on pedestals and represent what we should all aspire to be. But it's weird when this gets applied to Spidey.

Just like everything else with Peter, he is a regular guy. Other superheros represent what we should aspire to be, but Spidey represents what we can be. He cares for every life. He hopes to give everybody a second chance. But if someone asks for it, Pete will beat their fucking skull in.

When his cop/detective friend Jean DeWolff was murdered, he hunted the man down and physically fought his way past Daredevil to kill the guy and ended up beating him within an inch of his life. When Kingpin got May shot, Peter broke into his prison, effortlessly beat him to a smear, and then promised that when May died, not if, he'd come back and finish the job- violently. There are just countless instances of him deciding "I'm actually going to kill him now totally" with Norman. Most notably of course is the glider incident, which Peter didn't actually go to with the intent to kill (weirdly enough despite Gobby killing his fiance). However, he took pleasure in beating him senseless and wasn't exactly broken up by the final thud.

Peter's a guy who meets every situation with the intent to help someone. He tries to find every opportunity to help another person, even someone who's trying to kill him, even if it's at his own detriment. He's not a perfect manifestation of morals and purity. He's just some guy. Some guy who cares a whole lot for people. And that makes it all the more special when he does help someone. When he talks a girl off a roof, or inspires a kid to be better than the system set him up for, or befriends his own rogues. It all feels so much more personal. This is just a person, one of us. Someone who fails more often than not, who makes bad jokes and gets angry and feels hate and love and pain all at once and most of all, someone who tries his best no matter what.

[superectojazzmage]

There's been a number of posts observing the "isn't this superhero stuff so dumb?" syndrome that a lot of modern superhero media has. Where the creators are basically weirdly insecure about the fact that they're making something based on comic books and either refuse to take it seriously or strip out anything even slightly fantastical in favor gritty "realism" so nobody will think they're not serious filmmakers. And I just wanted to observe the patient zero of this phenomena, the case study that is Batman.

Because, for decades now, live-action adaptations of Batman have been so utterly terrified of being seen as remotely similar to the Adam West or Joel Schumacher versions - or really, most of the original Batman comics in general - that they obsessively try to scrub out (in a very superficial way) anything about the series that could be seen as fantastical, strange, or even just lighthearted. Every single Batman live-action adaptation after Batman And Robin has absolutely no hook beyond "it's Batman but TOTALLY GRITTY AND DARK AND REALISTIC AND NOT LIKE THOSE DUMB COMICS".

All of Batman's family and friends except Alfred will be thrown away, with the creators proudly boasting about how they'll never do Robin or Ace because sidekicks ruin the grounded maturity of a rich guy dressing up as a bat. All of Batman's less "mundane" enemies will be ignored or reimagined as mundane criminals; no Killer Croc, no Hugo Strange, no Maxie Zeus, just movie after movie of Joker but he shoots people instead of telling jokes or Riddler but he shoots people instead of telling riddles or Penguin but he shoots people instead of liking birds. All the decades of lore and worldbuilding around Gotham will be disregarded in favor or depicting it as just a vaguely defined crappy city that looks and feels no different from whatever city the film was shot in. Any stories that are even mildly "weird" will go unadapted or have all it's fantasy elements removed, so seminal arcs like Strange Apparitions or Knightfall or Night Of The Owls will be discarded or neutered in favor of endless repeats of the mob subplots in Year One and Long Halloween, nobody caring that they're locking themselves out of something like 90% of the Batcanon.

And, as alluded to previously, it's all done in a very shallow way that often ends up making things LESS realistic. Batman will always just be some asshole alone in his manor with nobody but Alfred for company, even though realistically he would absolutely NEED that huge family/support network of sidekicks and techies to achieve anything at all beyond dressing up in a costume and getting shot by the first guy he fights. There can be no "silly" characters but the creators desperately want to pretend that a furry beating up a clown is like The Wire. And even the more comic book elements are adapted, they'll be either altered in ways that make them unrecognizable for that precious faux-realism or have their unusual nature downplayed severely.

Just look at the Nolan movies; in his desperation to seem "serious", Nolan did stuff like having Bane not use a super-steroid or wear a luchador outfit, not caring that he was usually replacing the supervillain gimmicks with ideas that were even stupider and less real, like Bane wearing a mask to constantly huff painkillers yet somehow not being a crippled addict like such a thing would render him in real life. And Nolan likewise used the League of Assassins Shadows but was simultaneously crazed to avoid or downplay the supernatural aspects of that group in the comics, so Ra's is just some guy who presumably inherited his title and this secret ninja organization totally doesn't have magic or anything, shut up, and also them being an ancient cult will be remanded to, like, a single brief conversation than never mentioned again.

The consequences of this kind of thinking are becoming especially apparent with Matt Reeves' take. Reeves was a subscriber to that ideology of Batman having to be a bleak street crime drama instead of a colorful superhero, but also tried to pay lip-service to the Twitter discourse about Batman beating up poor people instead of being a symbol of hope. And now he's left himself trapped in this catch-22 where he can't adapt the vast majority of stories from the comics because they're too goofy and fantastical in the eyes of Hollywood but also has to keep playing into this idea of Batman as not just being a scowling brooder who goes out at night to beat endless waves of criminals into comas without making a meaningful change. The best he could manage is a mini-series about Penguin that, while not bad, has basically nothing to do with Batman as a series whatsoever and indeed has to bend over backwards to not acknowledge Batman's existence outside of a five-second shot in the final episode. The proper sequel to Reeves' Batman is stuck in pre-production hell, very probably straining to come up with something that hasn't been done before, isn't weird, and doesn't have Batman being overly dark. Good fucking luck with that.

It's especially bad because the animated and video game adaptations DON'T do this shit and embrace the crazier aspects of Batman as a series, and it works out great and produces works just as good or even better than the live action stuff. Batman The Animated Series wasn't afraid of adapting stuff like The Laughing Fish or Moon Of The Wolf alongside grittier arcs. The Arkham games had Batman punching sharks and dollotrons unironically and those are fantastic. Shows like The Brave And The Bold or Beware or Caped Crusader gleefully embrace stuff from all ages of Batman history and are better for it.

Something has to give on the live-action front. We need a Batman movie that dares to go beyond maybe three miniseries from the 80s, otherwise we're just wasting time and the potential of Batman as a character, whose success is partially owed to his ability to slot into all kinds of adventures.

[youryurigoddess]

The Small Back Room — Hour of Glory (1949)

Good Omens 2 begins with the visit to The Small Back Room not because it was meant to serve as an exposition scene for Maggie and her record shop. It’s a substantial foreshadowing of the main plot and the relationship changes between Aziraphale and Crowley.

As all the other classics referenced throughout the show, this 1949 Powell and Pressburger production is easily available online — whenever you have 100 minutes to spare, I highly encourage you to watch it.

Our story begins with the arrival of Stuart, a British military captain, who makes his way through a labyrinth of offices towards a small building — the research section led by an eccentric, queer-coded, bow tie wearing professor Mair — to ask for help with a secret Nazi weapon.

That’s when the professor calls our hero, Sammy Rice — an engineer and bomb disposal expert in the service of Her Majesty’s government and, not accidentally, the most brooding, wounded man in Powell and Pressburger’s impressive canon of dysfunctional and alienated characters.

Due to a prosthetic foot keeping him from active service and confining to work in the titular back room instead, Rice is dramatically slipping into alcoholism. Haunted by self-loathing and disappointment with the internal politics, he can’t see the point of his research anymore.

Sammy is also conducting a clandestine affair with the secretary of his research unit, Susan. They live in the same building and meet regularly, but can’t openly enjoy their company or even dance due to his injury, which makes him even more bitter and pathologically determined to wear her angelic patience down.

Susan puts up with it until the minister is forced to resign. She knows that if non-scientists take over, their section will become useless, Rice even more difficult, and the war possibly lost. She urges him to take action and when he dramatically refuses to make a difference, she leaves him.

Seemingly at his lowest now, Rice becomes a sudden chance to redeem himself. Captain Stuart calls him about two unexploded booby traps found in Wales, but left to himself, he dies during a heroic attempt to dismantle one of the thermos-like devices before our engineer arrives at the scene.

In a nerve-jangling finale, Stuart’s notes help Rice dismantle the second device. He becomes a hero, gets an officer commission as head of the new scientific unit, and discovers that Susan not only came back in the meantime, but repaired everything he drunkenly destroyed in the apartment after their breakup.

The parallels seem straightforward enough for me to add that in this context the role of Maggie through most of S2 may particularly reflect Crowley’s stagnancy in both work and love life. And if you’re unsure why the demon identifies with the heroic roles and characters, you might want to read this post on the subject.

Now, The Small Back Room was distributed in the US under another title — Hour of Glory. Which happens to be a specific Bible term referring to Christ’s “hour”, the period supposed to consummate all of his work on Earth and reveal God’s ultimate plan of salvation: the Son’s death.

John 12:20-36 Jesus replied, “The hour has come for the Son of Man to be glorified. Very truly I tell you, unless a kernel of wheat falls to the ground and dies, it remains only a single seed. But if it dies, it produces many seeds. Anyone who loves their life will lose it, while anyone who hates their life in this world will keep it for eternal life. Whoever serves me must follow me; and where I am, my servant also will be. My Father will honor the one who serves me. Now my soul is troubled, and what shall I say? ‘Father, save me from this hour’? No, it was for this very reason I came to this hour. Father, glorify your name.” Then a voice came from heaven, “I have glorified it, and will glorify it again.” The crowd that was there and heard it said it had thundered; others said an angel had spoken to him. Jesus said, “This voice was for your benefit, not mine. Now is the time for judgment on this world; now the prince of this world will be driven out. And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.”

Christ’s hour began in the garden — this time the garden of Gethsemane — as he prayed passionately for the cup to be passed from him, similarly to Aziraphale declining Metatron’s offers on screen, both regarding the hot drink and his reinstatement as part of the Heavenly Host:

Luke 22:42 “Father, if you are willing, please take this cup of suffering away from me. Yet I want your will to be done, not mine.”

All throughout the Old Testament, we see God’s wrath being described as a cup poured out on sin and those guilty of it. By accepting it, Jesus took the toll of all the sins — from Eden up until the last one to be committed right before his Second Coming — on himself, for the sake of his beloved humanity.

The passion of Christ continued as Judas betrayed him with a kiss, his disciples abandoned him, and the high priest accused him of crimes he was not guilty of. Even Pilate, the prefect of Rome, pretended to uphold the law; and remember we already expect a S3 trial based on another Archers movie.

All in all, it’s an hour of great injustice and pain, but also glory of God. We’re led to believe that the Ineffable Plan will similarly triumph over the great one (or whatever Metatron tries to implement at the moment), as it did in S1. And its ending will be a good one, back in a garden.

[ultfreakme]

"It'd make more sense if he was a villain" : Jay Nakamura, The Yellow Peril and Orientalism in the Comics Community

That quote above is speculating the potential of Jay Nakamura as a villain, specifically in the context of arguing for the incompatibility of Jon and Jay as a romantic couple due to the ideological differences that may arise from being a villain. Such speculations about fictional characters aren't uncommon and have been demonstrated in the canon of comics itself with stories like Injustice. But these statements should be regarded with caution, and with consideration for the context of a character.

This quote was said in service of comparing Jay Nakamura and Ash, a character introduced in Lazarus Planet, and to emphasize his potential as a love interest despite him being a villain.

There’s more but the general consensus seemed to be, that there was excitement in the potential for romantic tension between Jon and Ash due to Ash’s villainy, but the same was the reason for separating Jon and Jay. Many others stated Jay had to have manipulated Jon to an extent, which ‘corrupts’ Jon. This argument is not a concern when it comes to Ash although textually, Ash is the ‘homme fatale’ as defined by C.S.Pacat and is thus intentionally manipulating Jon throughout his appearance by looking down on his attitude as a hero, whereas there is no evidence of manipulation between Jon and Jay.

Why would one see a potential for "villainy" in certain characters? Is it story-based? Is it a personal preference for certain themes? Is it for entertainment? Or perhaps, something much deeper than all of this that you may not even be aware of?

What is the difference between Jay and Ash, and why does the villainy of one elicit enthusiasm and the perceived villainy of the other bring out irritation? While there is audience reception, writing quality, and subjective opinion which readers are free to express, these large-scale reactions warrant examination. Jon and Jay’s relationship had caused waves in international news. The story of Superman is inherently political and that of ‘Superman: Son of Kal-El’, ties itself back to these roots. Thus, the immediate aversion to Jay must be addressed and examined, since his character and his relationship with Superman can impact queer representation in media by virtue of carrying the brand of Superman.

DC Comics and The Depiction of Asian Culture

With characters such as Black Lightning, Steel, and New Super-Man getting new runs, and newer characters such as Xanthe Zhou and Cameron Kim(City Boy) being introduced, recent years have seen a push in diversifying the cast of superheroes. But American Comics as a medium have always idealized the image of the White Man and has been a means to define American Values, thereby alienating people of color(POC). Comics often reflected the anxieties of the Western World, with Captain America from Marvel Comics punching Nazis, and Superman fighting the Ku Klux Klan. While it has pushed for the message of freedom, community and rebellion with an emphasis on righteousness, the reflected anxieties are confined to those of the White Man.

World War 2 had given rise to anti-Chinese and Japanese propaganda, with American-Asian individuals being suspected for treason. Japanese immigrants in the 40s were accused of being spies for Japan. A quote from the article, ‘The "Yellow Peril" Mystique: Origins and Vicissitudes of a Racist Discourse’ states:

“Anyone who accepts an invitation to visit China or to entertain visitors to America from China are to be regarded either as dupes, as potential victims of cleverly trained agents of the People's Republic of China, who, during the course of an ordinary conversation, are able to extract secrets from them, or as spies working for a foreign government.”

Tensions from World War 2 and the perception of China as a Communist hellscape threatening American Capitalistic freedoms has led to such accusations. The idea of those of “the Orient” but specifically East Asians being experts in espionage to gather data, and leak it to the Chinese or Japanese governments has transferred over into fiction. 

Colonialism, and the racial hierarchies proposed by evolutionary theories of the nineteenth century placed the ambiguously Eastward individuals as subservient to the White Man. The concept of evolution had been co-opted by colonizers, upper class Western political circles, to expand upon eugenics to justify that POC fell into a hierarchy, where the white people were always on top. Asian and specifically East Asian people were defined by inferiority and a lack of advancement, but also as a marked threat with their supposed shrewdness as we’ve established.

The most prominent Asian characters in DC have been Ra’s Al Ghul, Talia Al Ghul, Lady Shiva, Cheshire, and Katana. They have long histories within the comics and are deeply influential, but the characters listed are typically in antagonistic roles, primarily using espionage-based techniques, expertise in weaponry, and membership among shadowed organizations to execute their goals. For the sake of brevity, we’ll be examining the portrayal of the Al Ghuls with a focus on Talia Al Ghul. Talia, much like Jay, is introduced first as a love interest and thus relevant for further discussion on the perception of Jay.

The Threat of The Lover from The Orient

The Al Ghuls originate from an undefined part of the Arab world. Talia is Arab and Chinese, but she is not allowed to be fluid, she is not allowed both. Depending on the creative team’s intentions, she is portrayed both as a temptress and a romantic interest, oscillating between these identities depending on her loyalty to her father and her love for Batman. When she is meant to be a victim of her father, imposing stereotypical morals assigned to the Arab world through orientalism, she wears ‘harem’ robes, she is darker, she is distinctly Arab. When she is a sly temptress, she wears a qipao or a kimono, leaning into Asian stereotypes. 

While Orientalism portrays Asian women as sexual beings, who are seen as particularly dangerous because of their influence on the libidos of White Men, it veers towards a lack of desirability in Asian men. The sexual interest of Asian men is portrayed as inherently predatory of white women, a danger from which white women must be rescued.

What would this mean, then, for an Asian Queer Man, who is a romantic interest of Superman?

Jay Nakamura and “The Pink Hair Connundrum”

Talia’s former fluidity in her design and clothing is contrasted starkly by the clear definition of Jay’s design. Much like Lois Lane, whose assigned color is purple, Jay has been assigned a specific set of colors to make him identifiable; these being pink, orange, greens and teals.

Many of the recently introduced Asian characters have strong silhouettes and stylization. Kong Kenan is primarily red with accents of yellow and black, Xanthe Zhou’s is blue and yellow, City Boy is Black and Red. Identifiable and concretized designs are necessary to the superhero genre, where the design is essential towards cementing identity. This is in direct contrast to long-term portrayals of Talia, whose skin tone, color scheme and styling varied with great frequency. 

Jay’s design competes in vibrance with the primary colors of the Superman suit. This raises issues because the Asian Love interest is visually not subservient to the White Hero. The muted colors expected of any romantic interest is not present here, which immediately creates tension.

His design adheres to typical fashion choices in queer culture. The stereotype of a ‘pronoun haver with dyed’ hair has run rampant in recent years. While queerphobic individuals denigrate these features as something lesser, the queer community gravitates towards alternative design choices which turn eyes for a purpose. The LGBTQIA+ community uses alternate clothing, colors, and fashion pieces to mark themselves and their identity within the community, mainly to signal to other LGBTQIA+ individuals of their presence (Flags and Fashion: Expressions of Solidarity through Lesbian Clothing, Eleanor Medhurst). It is a form of solidarity.

Heteronormativity is defined by a set of social rules imposed on varying aspects of culture, from language to clothes, and the replication of these enforces what is ‘normal’. The fashion choices of the LGBTQIA+ community defy these rules despite efforts by these imposed social norms to police them. The heteronormative majority see it as their duty to correct these transgressions in hair color, clothing, speech, etc.

But, following these normative rules means the marginalized individual would have to put in extra labour to conform– to not be judged and refused. The queer person is expected to do this additional labour, and it falls to the marginalized people to negotiate within themselves the extent of compromise they must make for their own identity to fit into their environment (A gay reflection on microaggressions, symbolic normativities, and pink hair Aleksi Soini). The normative people are never challenged.

It is up to the LGBTQIA+ individual to prove themselves as ‘normal’. 

Solini’s article recounts a moment where a coworker of his stated, “‘You're okay; you're not one of those over-the-top faggots with bleached hair”. Heteronormativity functions in binaries. You are male or female. Similarly, you are straight or gay. There is of course, in the name of inclusion, a “normal” gay, and an “abnormal” gay.

Jay Nakamura would be considered the latter, because his character design is a representation of someone who takes no efforts to conform to heteronormativity. 

In the context of Superman: Son of Kal-El, he is a reporter who wants attention so that he may redirect it to protect refugees. He purposefully stands out with his chosen orange and green hoodies. His ability to stand out is a direct attack against the narrative created by the colonizer of his country, Henry Bendix.

Henry Bendix kidnapped Jay and his mother, Sara, to silence them. Sara was the former president of Gamorra, and ran against Henry Bendix in the previous elections. Bendix abducts these two in an effort to silence the call for the freedom of Gamorra. Jay is one among hundreds who are experimented on, essentially enslaved under Bendix’s command— a clear effort to erase their identities. It is implied his hair turned pink due to the experiments, since he has black hair in an alternate universe where Bendix did not colonize Gamorra.

His hair is a symbol of resistance within the story itself, since he gained it after surviving long periods of experimentation. On a metatextual level as a queer character, he represents the LGBTQIA+ tendency to transgress heternormativity. Subversion is an act of resistance. 

The aesthetic of “Superman and Lois Lane” appeals to conservative values, and this is often used to push the image of a perfect American Nuclear Family, leaning towards the stereotypes of yesteryears where ‘traditional values’ reigned supreme. Superman 2016 leans into this, the setting is an idyllic countryside village known as Hamilton. Lois Lane, defined as a career woman and intrepid journalist is confined to the home, and Clark is seen primarily around the farm. They are both removed from their profession meant to symbolize the protection and distribution of truth. Their clothing abides by these as well. Lois wears athleisure, tight tops and leggings, found in muted pinks and purples, as opposed to her rumpled office formals. Clark is often seen in flannel tops, jeans, and jackets, primarily in reds and muted blues and browns. Visually, they are meant to conform to the binary established by heteronormativity. The primary colors of the Superman suit are shown in tandem with the American Flag. There is space made for color, but only as long as it conforms.

Jon and Jay’s story is firmly set in the city of Metropolis and constantly circles the idea of truth, journalistic integrity, and propaganda. His unnatural hair and bright clothing stand in stark contrast to Superman 2016, disrupting the aesthetic rules of heteronormativity in the fabric of the Superman story.

The clear definition of his color story, as an Asian man, a queer man, and a love interest, creates tension within the world of comics.

Espionage and Distrust of Asian Characters.

As established previously, the World Wars, colonialism and the eugenicist taken on evolution embraced by the Western world in the 19th century led to a deep suspicion of anyone of East Asian descent. 

The belief in the shrewdness of Asian characters is reflected in the characterization of those like Talia. Talia is portrayed as having deeper meaning in all her actions. She leaks information to the heroes in ‘Tower of Babel’. In her time as the CEO of LexCorp, she sold all the assets to Bruce Wayne though she was portrayed as a villain. Her character is frequently presented as untrustworthy, and readers are made to question her every move. This is further reinforced by these double-crosses and information sharing. Similarly, Cheshire and Catman’s relationship in Secret Six is defined by deep distrust, Cheshire toys with Catman by hiding information and shifting loyalties depending on what is advantageous to her. Simone often comments on her sexual appeal being dangerous, and the ways in which she uses a character’s unwillingness to trust her to further intrigue and disseminate information.

As an Asian journalist, a refugee, and a recently-introduced love interest, Jay is in a position which raises anxieties in the common American comic reader who has been trained to distrust the idea of information in the hands of such an individual. The established tension arising from his character design motivates readers to uphold such suspicion.

The text of the story makes it explicit that he admires Lois Lane, and his position as the journalist love interest of Superman calls for parallels with Lois. His monicker, The Truth, is directly derived from the Superman slogan, ‘Truth, Justice, and a Better Tomorrow’. Yet, there is fear that he is manipulating Jon.

The fight between the Axis and Allied powers led to a deep mistrust from the American against Japanese immigrants and American-Japanese citizens. General John L. DeWitt’s statement regarding the Japanese immigrant population summarizes the sentiments in this time:

Sinophobia continued to flourish, and was worsened with the accusation and trial of Wen Ho Lee, a naturalized American Citizen from Taiwan, who confessed to reporting classified information regarding nuclear weapons in America to Chinese scientists while visiting Beijing. The truth of this accusation remains contested, but the confession and sentencing led to the intensification of distrust in Chinese people.

The country of Gamorra is located in Asia, and is located south of Japan. It was created initially by Korean writers Brandon Choi and Jim Lee. Gamorra was colonized by those of Japanese descent, and it can be surmised it is an allegory for the colonization of Korea by the Japanese Empire. This history is not reflected in Superman: Son of Kal-El, and readers would identify Gamorra as vaguely Asian.

Though the Yellow Peril targeted various countries in different manners, xenohpobia and orientalism affected Asian populations on a similar scale. It was specifically, “the Whites” against “the Others”. The ambiguity of Jay’s Asian origin makes him a potential target for a combined imposition of stereotypes from varying Asian cultures.

The overall effect, is that in fiction, the Asian Lover cannot be trusted with information.

Seduction, Hypnotization and the threat of Sexuality

Morality Panic around the sexuality of Asian bodies has existed for centuries. The British population characterized Chinese immigrants as morally depraved, defining them as opium smoking individuals who indulged in gambling and prostitution. Setting aside the fact that the cause of the opium distribution in China was due to the British, and the first of the Opium Wars were fought because the Chinese government took measures to get rid of opium, the presence of Chinese populations in Britian was in defiance of the colonial mindset.

An increase in immigration occurred during the World Wars, and White Women grew more independent through the job opportunities created during this period. The reluctance of White Women to conform to the patriarchy and the increase in immigration, led to rumours of helpless white women being lost in the Limehouse streets, victim to the “moral depravity” of the Asian Man.

Sexuality has always been a source of control in the heteronormative patriarchy. The binary of male and female is defined by the subservience of women, sexually, to men. Specifically, white men. A loss of control in this sexuality for the White Man is a threat.

Cheshire, Lady Shiva, and Talia are portrayed as using their sexuality to weaken their White Male opponents. She is a threat because she results in a loss of control over libido, she weaponizes it against the White Hero. He falls victim to his sexuality, and is seen as helpless to these ‘charms’ and a hapless victim. Grant Morrison takes this much farther with Talia and Bruce, wherein she is implied to have sexually assaulted Bruce Wayne. The metaphor of sexuality as a weapon becomes that of overt assault, the stereotype stretched to its extreme. Cheshire’s seduction is shown as dangerous, and Thomas Blake is weakened drastically around her purely due to his attraction towards her. It seems her mere existence is a devastating blow. 

While the Asian Woman is a sexual object, one who seduces, a temptation which cannot be refuted, the Asian Man is portrayed as deeply undesirable and sexless. Anti-immigration laws, exclusion, and the deep history of Orientalism and Xenophobia ostracizes the Asian Man from American Masculinity, creating the “American male” and the “other”, thus stripping Asian Men of their masculinity. Due to masculinity being defined by sexuality, the othering of the Asian Man leads to an assignation of sexlessness (Park, M. (2012). Asian American masculinity eclipsed: A legal and historical perspective of emasculation through US immigration practices. Mod. Am., 8, 5).

They are feminized, portrayed as undesirable. Which leads to the stereotype of The Seducer, a byproduct of the Yellow Peril. Due to the perceived lack of desirability in Asian Men, their sexuality is instead portrayed as inherently predatory. Shanghai Express(1936) and The Cheat(1915) portray Asian Men as sexual predators victimizing white women, who must be rescued by the White Heroes. The Limehouse district of London were fear mongered as places where the Triad Gangsters would kidnap White Women and force them into sexual slavery (Witchard, Anne (4 February 2015). "Yellow Peril: Sinophobia and the Great War: a Q&A with Dr. Anne Witchard".).

Jay is a queer man, desired by a white man. On many occasions, Jon has initiated physical intimacy with Jay. White men, as we’ve seen before, are seen as victims of their libidos. But Asian men are sexless. A white man could not possibly truly desire for the Asian body, especially not for the Asian male body. The impositions of the aforementioned stereotypes in fiction have led to a disbelief in the existence of such a relationship configuration. Jay does not conform to the aesthetic of the Asian seductress, or of a feminization of any sort. Rather, he has glasses, fitting more into the Asian Nerd stereotype, which emerged from the demasculinization of Asian Men.

It is difficult for a comic reader, who has been hammered down with the idea of seduction, temptation and subterfuge around the Asian sexuality, to see Superman fall for an Asian boy with glasses, free of external manipulation. Jay with pink hair and a distinct lack of revealing outfits or overt sexual advances must then, therefore, be using some unseen and undetectable force, more sinister than can be imagined, shifting into the realm of the magical.

Whatever the explanation, it surely cannot be an honest desire.

And so it veers into speculations of seduction. Many had hilariously proposed that he had used pink kryptonite with sincerity. Plenty had examined the swirl-like pattern behind Jay in a singular panel to mean that he had used hypnosis. His joke about working with Lex Luthor to tease Jon was used as a confession of his crimes, and his plans were always to expose Jon's vulnerabilities. On and on they went

The label of ‘terrorist’, journalism, and the perception of refugees

This, is sensitive. I have often hesitated to speak about this to anyone due to how fresh the topic is, how real the violence of this can be. It is no secret, that the United States labels the populations it wishes to exploit or eradicate with the label of ‘terrorist’. The invasion of Iraq, the current unchecked occupation of Palestine, Syria and Lebanon, and the dismissal of Yemeni efforts to support the aforementioned countries is due to the labelling of a fight for liberation, for freedom, as ‘terrorist activity’. Heradstveit and Pugh put it best;

One of the primary ways in which a government increases its legitimacy and induces its population to support it above and beyond what their own interests dictate is by assimilating the concepts of ‘opposition’ and ‘crime’. It goes without saying that governments are meant to act against ‘crime’, at any rate crime committed by their less powerful subjects, as this is part of the definition of a government.

They propose that the label of ‘terrorism’ can cover anything from guerilla warfare, armed resistance, any form of political opposition, even those which are non-violent and can be classified as vandalism. Any action in opposition to the locus of control, is classified as terrorist activity.

Comics reflect reality, as mentioned at the beginning. Jay does the same in his journalism. The second issue of Superman: Son of Kal-El, portrays Jay reporting on a Gamorran refugee boat, which was sinking on its way to Metropolis. These are the first bits of dialogue we hear from Jay. He is aligned with an anarachist group called ‘The Revolutionaries’, who undertake armed violence in a fight for liberation. Batman puts the label of criminality and specifically, of terrorism, into the reader’s minds.

This is meant to be refuted, and it is within a single issue. But the readership saw it as confirmation of their suspicions arising from the previously mentioned points, while ignoring the critique on the US government. Jay’s position as a disenfranchised refugee is entirely forgotten, despite the text repeating his position at varying points. 

The seeming confirmation of the Asian seductress, of subterfuge, always takes precedence.

Superman comics have often been used to empower people. Superman’s story is inspired by Jewish myths and lived experiences. His status as an illegal immigrant has been covered across multiple mediums. He has smashed the Klan, he has helped free an enslaved world, he has helped people through their trauma, he has defended immigrants trying to find safety, assured queer children that they are loved and accepted, he fights corrupt billionaires who exploit the common folk. 

Jay’s story contributes to the same values, but he is dismissed purely on aesthetics and race. 

It is important to evaluate why certain characters make us uncomfortable. What elicits this reaction? What is the source? I would never urge someone to like a character, this is subjective but it is important to analyze where our biases can come from. Sometimes it is as harmless as being unable to relate to a story. On other occasions, it can be rooted in something as insidious as this. 

If you would like to make Jay a villain, or any hero into a villain for that matter, ask why.

[nickpeppermint]

Lately Marvel Rivals brought attention to Fantastic Four, and i saw some people saying that The Thing even though iconic, is a lazy name, and it should've been changed to something cooler

I think changing his name would be a huge character misunderstanding, because the real reason why Ben is called "The Thing" is deeply tied to his self esteem, that's what he thinks everyone calls him

While other members humble enough to call themselves 🌟✨ ᗰᖇ ᖴᗩᑎTᗩSTIᑕ ✨🌟 Ben's hero name reflects his feelings of not deserving love or even not associating with other humans, comparing himself to an object rather than a person

Since Ben looks like a monster, he believes that he can be loved by others only if he's useful for his monster strength, because an object like him doesn't deserve unconditional love for who he is

[artbyblastweave]

What I really like about Creature Commandos is that stylistically it's a very Silver-Age-inflected take on the DCU as a superhero setting- EC comics Hammer-horror overtones, scientists getting blasted with radiation and turning into glowing skeletons, geneticists making Fish people, Weird War Two, Silver-Age leave-it-to-beaver Doc Magnus and his Metal Men, weird micronations with superscience, Frankenstein's monster is a real guy, and so on. This is not the kind of adaption where the writers feel a strong need try to hook every superpowered Tom, Dick and Sally back into the same particle accelerator explosion or mutagen-laced tear gas deployment. It's just that the Silver-age nonsense:

A.) is played basically 100 percent unironically as something that meaningfully affects and traumatizes the characters who have to live through it- no sly nods to the camera, no defensive irony in the presentation whatsoever and

B.) is portrayed with a level of ultraviolence that always sort of implicit in a lot of silver age concepts even if you couldn't actually depict it under CCA censorship standards. There's going to be a lot of blood when you shoot a nazi with a machine gun, it won't be pretty when the writers allow the guy whose power is "melting people" to actually make contact with a human opponent for once, you definitely don't want to see how the sausage gets made on a Frankenstein, and so on and so forth.

All of which result in the viewer nodding along, belief suspended, with a level of charity that we would absolutely not extend to a lot of the goofy silver-age fare this is pulling from. All told it comes out slightly north of The Venture Bros in terms of how it pairs these aesthetics with an intense sense of cynicism and pointlessness- even after all of the runarounds and fakeouts and pointless deaths the world is still in a better position at the end than if the team had just stayed home. But it feels like a cousin to that show, stylistically.

[alvie-pines]

some people defend captain america with "he fought nazis in ww2" and im like. good for him, but i need more than that. i mean thats a good thing to do, but also the bare fucking minimum.

and it also doesnt contradict his role as American Propaganda Personified either, because guess what the US did? fought nazis! it doesnt make the US not a horrible imperialistic death machine... because again: bare fucking minimum. you cant just punch a nazi (pure evil & most people agree on that) and call it a day, youre a good person (or country) now and forever! not how that works.

i love some good ol' nazi-punching when its accompanied by other acts of goodness. this isnt a diss on nazi-punching. this is a diss on thinking it absolves you of doing wrong... or absolves your favorite superhero of representing an imperialist death machine.

ending this with a final note: its okay to like cap. i dont really care what you, or my anyone else, likes. i just dont like him myself, and i wont like him no matter how many nazis he punches. here, i am explaining why. i think he represents something awful, and that unequivocally ruins the experience for me, but it may not ruin someone else's media experience, and thats not really a moral judgement. everyone has different limits in fiction. i love gloriously violent gore and cannibalism, but graphic child abuse shuts me down. so does too much usamerican propaganda. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[gayofthefae]

Thinking again about "you're my superhero" and how powers use anger and sadness, not love, and how there were two words used with spite in that note, not one

"Dear Mike,

I have gone to become a superhero again.

From,

El"

She put "superhero" on the same plane as *"From"*. OH, She did not like that shit at all.

[classyruinsbarbarian]

I cannot stop thinking about how wordgirl canonically picks up traits from her villains like how she started saying 'wham' in that one episode i forgot the name of.

Like she and the Learnerer make the same 'Gah!' sound

Okay I actually have no more examples of her picking up traits/having same/similar traits to her villains

If yall got anymore examples please give I love these.

[swolesome]

Hi, I did a big queer comic nerd video essay.

Batman, Masculinity, and Gayness: Decoding the Dark Knight

[mannyrojas20-blog]

Quick thing, I haven't seen anyone else say a thing about this one thing. So I'm gonna throw my hat in the ring.

Hal is an incel and an absolute jerk by all means. However, Megamind is partially responsible for his downward spiral. I'm not just talking about him giving superpowers; I'm talking about the horrible judgment and advice that he gave Hal.

When he first met Hal, he thought he was the perfect choice for a hero and dismissed any evidence to the contrary. Much like a parent/authority figure dismissing a person of bad behavior when they eventually turn for the worse.

Later on, he gives Hal advice on how to woo Roxanne. Said advice, 'Just save her, dude'. Advice that is based on a vague idea on how to get with a woman and without much context. Ultimately, it was setting Hal up to fail and have him turn for the worse.

Though I'm not saying Hal is in the clear, he isn't. Megamind just encouraged a lot of his behavior, and it backfired. Thankfully, in the end, Megamind stopped him from doing anything worse and made up for his mistakes.

In short, incels don't come out of the ether (they can be created very easily), and people should monitor how others behave and call them out on it.

If anyone wants to add anything. Feel free to share.