#dc meta

[zahri-melitor]

Stephanie Brown and sewing: the discontinuity in canon skill

One of the points that is often brought up to contrast Bryan Q. Miller’s Batgirl 2009 run with pre-War Games Steph is BQM’s depiction of Steph as unable to sew in Batgirl #1 2009, in contrast with Chuck Dixon’s depiction of her sewing her first costume in Secret Origins 80-Page Giant #1 1998.

I think it’s interesting to contrast the default assumptions inherent in ‘Steph can/cannot sew’ for both periods, and also look at what the skill would say today about her as a character.

Dixon from her origin in 1992 portrays Steph as having sewn her own costume and as a member of Gen X. (Well, he doesn’t specify that she made it until he writes her Secret Origins in 1998, but it probably formed part of her origin story in his mind from the very start). In that time period, it’s not unlikely that Steph may still have been taught to sew at school and to be assumed by readers to have learnt at school; while sewing and home economics classes were in the process of being removed from the US school curriculums over the late 1970s and the 1980s, in 1992 that would still be very recent news and in particular, adult readers and writers would likely still have expected it to be a skill that a teenage girl would have learnt, either at school or from her mother. Dixon in particular was born in 1954 and probably finished school in the very early 1970s, before this change in curriculum occurred, so his default expectation would have been that Steph had the opportunity to learn.

On top of this, in the late 1980s and early 1990s it was still financially viable for lower middle class families to be sewing particularly children’s clothing and women’s dresses to save money; the cost of fabric v the cost of premade clothing was such that there were still savings to be made by running up simple clothes at home if you discounted the labour costs of the woman doing that work. In this context, Steph being able to sew her own costume is something that allows Dixon to portray Steph as thrifty and hardworking and the ‘good’ sort of lower middle class.

In this context, Steph sewing makes her look competent and well educated, but also pitches her in the position where she is visibly less well off and less well resourced than Tim is: she is able to solve the problem of needing a costume by creating her own at home (similar to how Barbara Gordon, in most origin stories, sews her first Batgirl costume AS a costume party outfit), rather than having one gifted to her by Bruce.

In contrast, by BQM’s Batgirl 2009 run, the likelihood of a teenage girl having the skill to sew a complete outfit has significantly dropped. My best estimate of BQM’s age is that he was likely born in the 1980s, a full generation later, and is writing a teenage girl who is similarly presented as an entire generation younger and a Millennial. For this version of Steph, sewing is an old fashioned, unfashionable skill that she would have been unlikely to learn at school. To learn how to sew she would either have required a special interest or an involved mother or other older relative who specifically wanted to teach her; and Crystal Brown is not portrayed as someone who had the free time to be teaching hobbies to her daughter. The economics of sewing have also flipped at this point. Buying clothing was cheaper and easier than sewing them personally, and it would be extremely unlikely to see a teenager wearing homemade clothing.

On top of that, we have BQM’s characterisation of Steph. His Steph is Not Like Other Girls ™ - she’s specifically shown to be cool and rebellious in ways that are depicted via things like looking down on clothing/behaviour that is ‘girly’, wearing male style clothing like combat fatigues as part of her university clothing to portray that she’s above caring about her appearance, but still having those ‘when she wears a dress she looks feminine/beautiful’ moments. It’s a very trendy portrayal of a teenager who is simultaneously trying to appear not to be trying too hard while actually privately overthinking everything.

Finally, both of these reads of what Steph being able to sew or not means have different interpretations in the present day.

From my current understanding, design and sewing classes have largely been out of the US school curriculum for decades at this point. The most common encounters that a modern member of fandom would have with sewing clothing is the in the context of cosplay, whether that be for fandom costuming (such as sewing your own Batgirl costume for a party like Barbara), or in terms of the Bernadette Banner style of elaborate historical recreations, where the hobby is both the recreation and in doing everything the hardest and most elaborate way possible. It is not something most people would do for actual pieces in their wardrobe (as the economics of sewing are still upsidedown in terms of materials to premade). A current teenage or early 20s Steph is a member of Gen Z, another generation on.

Because of this frequent lack of familiarity with the skill of sewing in the general audience, there is no longer an default expectation that Steph would be able to sew. If she was able to sew, it would be perceived as a particular hobby of hers for some purpose (probably cosplay, to give her a fandom-aligned hobby to seem ‘cool’), rather than an expected skill she acquired in the course of her education, whether at school or from her mother, for the purpose of running a household and general maintenance tasks. Particularly in terms of being able to put together an entire costume, or modify another costume to fit herself; those are higher skill levels than sewing on buttons or tacking a hem.

Interestingly, both portraying Steph as able to sew AND as unable to sew now have different readings to them compared to the two contemporaneous commentaries available in 1992 and 2009, when it was previously addressed in canon. It would be interesting to see it addressed again by a writer, to see which angle they take.

[galaxymagitech]

I think the fact that Tim’s childhood was actually fairly normal makes things funnier, actually.

He was raised in boarding schools and a bit of a latchkey kid, but he knew his parents loved him and he was supervised the majority of the year. He has normal interests, like skateboarding and superheroes. He has plenty of friends and meets up with them outside of school and everything. Even when he has to go to a new school, he finds a friend group. He dislikes school and he’s a dork. He has had multiple girlfriends, a homoerotic friendship, and a boyfriend. He’s intended to be the reader-insert, the Everyman, the guy that teenage boy readers identify with. As far as Batman comics go, he’s practically Normal McNormal Face on a surface level.

He also:

Responds to a temporary lack of adult supervision by stalking Batman with a camera to prove that Batman is being reckless. How did Tim know Batman was being reckless in the first place? Who knows! Maybe he just stalked him recreationally first.

Travels to New York City alone to break into Dick Grayson’s apartment.

Tries to clone his dead best friend (the other half of said homoerotic friendship).

Climbs out the window in the middle of a conversation with his guidance counselor.

Fakes an entire uncle and hires an actor to play him because he wants to live independently.

Runs away to a quarantined disaster zone, resulting in a huge manhunt.

Deduces Batman’s identity at age 9 and keeps it a secret (look, 9-year-olds are chatty).

Falls asleep on a rollercoaster, in the middle of a stakeout, and other inopportune places like the freaking dormouse from Alice in Wonderland.

Desperately attempts to keep the family together in Gotham War to a frankly disturbing degree.

Routinely ends up in random countries without adults, but it’s fine because he’s Competent (TM).

Hero worships Dick Grayson so hard he literally steals his identity.

Like, no, Tim’s insanity is not the result of cartoonish childhood neglect. Which means…

He’s just like that.

[umbrellajam]

ok sorry I just have to yell about this real quick -

Nightwing (Vol. 2) #139 - The Resurrection of Ra's al Ghul, part 6 Dick: "I let you make the choice for yourself...because I knew you'd make the right one."

Dick didn't know shit, lmao!! "Because I knew you'd make the right one" my ass lol.

Let's rewind two minutes shall we:

Dick: "Tim... Listen... There are no easy answers... But you have the right to make the choice for yourself." || Dick (internal narration): "No-win. If I stop him, I don't trust him. If he goes through with it, I shouldn't have trusted him. C'mon, Tim..."

He doesn't know what choice Tim is going to make, whether his grief will overcome him and he'll take the Lazarus water or not, and has in fact been physically fighting Tim this entire issue to stop him by force. But ultimately he knows it's Tim's right to choose for himself, and decides to hope, and have faith in his brother.

And he has that faith rewarded, and reaffirms it afterward, despite the fact that he wasn't sure.

And paralleling that moment of "yes of course I knew you had it":

Red Robin (2009) #12 Dick: "How'd you know? How did you know I'd be there to save you?" || Tim: "You're my brother, Dick. You'll always be there for me."

TIM DIDN'T KNOW SHIIIIIIIIT HGKLJDKFLSD

At least not consciously! Being caught by Dick is certainly not something he planned for, as he seems to be trying to imply.

Again, rewind:

Tim (internal narration): "I did it. I saved the people he loved. I saved everything he worked so hard to build. No compromises. He won't say anything, he never does. But I know. I know that Bruce will be proud of me. Not a bad day." || Tim: (in the midst of pASSING TF OUT) || Dick: (swoops in and catches him)

Tim may not have actually known that Dick would be there. But that catch... A falling Tim being caught by Dick is a motif that occurs over and over and over across the years of their relationship. Why do I feel like there's a part of Tim, faint as he faded out, and much stronger when he woke up, that went, "Oh, it's Dick - of course if it was anyone, I knew it would be Dick"?

After their conflicts and miscommunications in this arc, after Tim sweeping back into town and explaining not a single thing as he races to thwart Ra's, despite Dick's frustrated pleas, after cutting Dick off with a simple, "Batman...trust me," and Dick's responding, "Of course"....

Tim feeling like he knew, even if he didn't know, or plan, or expect. Because that's his brother. And choosing to express that trust, after Dick chose to trust him...

Just. Dick and Tim. Verbally reaffirming their faith in each other, even after in-the-moment doubts. BROTHERS. My emotions.

[disco-troy]

I don't feel like people have a nuanced enough view of Kory what she thinks about killing. She's not blindly wanting to murder criminals, nor is she delighted by the actions of murder. She sees murder as a necessity because of her upbringing in the middle of an existential war, and also as a way to regain autonomy on her life. Autonomy is a key theme in many of the people Kory chooses to kill.

The idea of autonomy over the body and her life is extremely important to Kory. This makes sense, Kory spends six years in slavery, her life not her own, and grew up knowing her planet could lose its own autonomy and freedom at any time.

When she was a slave, the few times that she was able to control her life in those times. Her first kill was her kill of what would become her last master, starting the chain of domino that would result in her freedom.

Note her words: "His very touch sickened me". It wasn't just about her imprisonment or her anger, but about her body, her autonomy. She couldn't handle being touched like that anymore, and killed knowing that it would solve nothing, knowing that it would lead to more punishment for her later down the line.

Her next kill allowed her to escape, securing her freedom and her own autonomy.

To escape she must pretend Kory has completely given in to her captors. That she is fine, even happy with the Gordonian touching her. But by doing this she is bringing him close, giving him the illusion of control over herself to secure her own freedom.

She is pretending to be a slave, while affirming to herself that she is still a soldier.

In this way we can see a dichotomy that has ruled Kory's life until now. On one side, you have succumbing to subjugation, which involved a loss of bodily autonomy. On the other side you had her claiming her freedom and her autonomy which comes with the need to kill or be destroyed.

In addition to this, you need to think of the context of Kory's upbringing. Of course Kory is used to killing her enemies. She grew up in a climate of fear in which there was a real possibility of total annihilation. Millions of her people died in the war that eventually lead her to being sold as a slave.

She grew up during a society that could have been destroyed in war, where everyday killing was not a questions but an existential threat. Killing and war was literally the only way for her people to conserve their autonomy.

This disconnect between Dick/Donna and Kory is not because Kory is an alien, but because the Titans are living in a world where they are superheroes and Kory is living in a world where she is a solider. Would a Kory that didn't kill even been able to come out alive from war? From her enslavement? To her its about her autonomy and her independence, she doesn't have the luxury of morals, of thought, of choice.

Later we see Kory not change, but shift. She realizes that killing will never be easier for her again.

This makes sense! her interpretation of killing has changed a lot because she's been exposed to a new environment. On earth she is not facing a literal war, she has real power, she has backup, she doesn't have to fight every second for her freedom and autonomy.

I think this is demonstrated in an incredibly narrative compelling way in Titans (1999) when Kory kills to give another character autonomy over her own body; Adaline Kane. Adaline is about to die, but her blood can still be harvested for Vandal Savage's experiments. She begs for death, instead of living that fate.

Kory gives it to her.

(much like Slade gave Joey in Titans Hunt but this post only has the space for one parallel right now)

When it comes to protecting the greater good, and especially when it comes to bodily autonomy Kory is not only willing to kill, but sees it as her duty.

She's never stopped being a soldier, she's never stopped being the Tamaranian who was forced to kill and see her people die to preserve her home, but more than that, she never stopped being the little girl for whom killing was her only way of reclaiming her autonomy.

[geneticdriftwood]

roy’s whole pitch to dick at the start of outsiders is so fucking funny when you actually think about it. bc it’s like:

dick: I can’t be on a team again, I won’t lead friends and family into danger anymore!

roy: cool cool of course man, no problem! it’ll just be strangers and coworkers this time. no deep emotional bonds, I promise! ignore the fact that you’re one of the people I love most in the world and we’ve been family to each other for half our lives and I’m creating this team specifically to help and support you

dick: seems legit, I’m in

[glitter-stained]

Not vague posting about anything i've seen recently but I do think like in general, our experience and analysis of comics could benefit from focusing on what character knows what. I know it's hard because the continuity is complicated, but sometimes it is doable and I think it's important, even/especially in stories and characters we don't like (there is a technique and subtlety to the art of hating)

Ie:

"Jason would hate Alfred, he talked shit about him while he was dead and was the one to put up the memorial case", Jason was dead when this happened

"That scene where Jason says "i've never seen you hit anybody this hard not even the joker" was stupid Bruce put the Joker in a full body cast after he killed Jason" Jason was dead when this happened

"Jason was cruelly and willfully trying to take away the one person that Mia felt safe with" Jason looked at two newspapers, saw similarities between Mia and him and projected so strongly onto her we're at the limits of astral projection. He didn't know shit about Mia's feelings for Ollie or that she hadn't been taken in to be Speedy, man didn't even known she had killed before."

"Bruce is so cruel for burying Sheila next to Jason" Bruce has canonically not a fucking clue why Jason went into the warehouse

"Jason should have hated Tim for all the victim-blaming and shit-talking" again, Jason was dead when this happened

"But doesn't Jason know his family grieved him??" ..........Jason was dead when this happened

Obviously this is centered around Jason because he's the one I'm trying to get a phd in but it works for all of them. Like don't get me wrong, all of these are interesting points that I understand wanting to see developed in the comics, but we can't blame stories for making characters act according to their knowledge. Jason being buried next to Sheila for example is really damn tragic because nobody knew what she did to him, just that he called her mom and gave his life trying to save her. Mostly the frustration about those topics means, imo, comics should have them have fucking conversations and find out about stuff that happened more often. Also it's good practice to train our theory of mind.

[theflashjaygarrick]

One thing that is important to me when discussing Cassandra Cain is the fact that she didn't develop her anti-killing moral position because of the bats. Neither does she have her moral code because she's Bruce's obedient golden child. Instead she decided at around age 8 that killing anyone (even some random criminal like in the 2000 batgirl series) was fundamentally wrong because it made them feel fear and pain. Finding out the bat-code had a similar perspective about killing was more validation than anything else. She would be saving everyone she could with or without batman.

She created her own moral framework against that her (in the 2000 series at least) white father. In spite of the fact the fact that her father literally objectified and dehumanised her, she fought to speak and be heard. She chose her own destiny, Babs and Bruce just helped her along the way.

As an Asian character it's important to me she wasn't 'taught' morals by white Americans, but rather she has a code that she developed herself. She doesn't listen to Bruce half the time, and she's more loyal to the concept of the bat symbol than anyone who wears it. She consistently disobeyed him in her original run. All these things aspects help her avoid being just a character with white saviour undertones, and allow her to instead be a heroic beacon of life and compassion in her own right.

[dceasesd]

why juni ba’s the boy wonder has my favorite jason characterization of any contemporary comic run: a needlessly in-depth analysis (pt.1)

oh boy oh boy am i excited for this one buckle up boys it’s gonna be a long one. analysis under the cut (WITH PICTURES!!)

i, like many others, have many thoughts and opinions about juni ba's the boy wonder that i'd like to express. i was having trouble formatting my rant, though, so i decided that it was easiest to just address some of the common complaints i've seen about the comic and jason's characterization and insert my ramblings throughout it. so far i've seen three main complaints:

the typical boiling down of jason's character to "the angry one"

his lack of strategy going into the fight with the demon is out-of-character

the neighbor's kid interaction

to start with the first one-- when introducing jason's character, in both the second and first issue, ba uses the descriptors "coarse", "bitter", "hardened", "brash" and, of course, "rageful".

so, yes-- i understand where people are having issues with this characterization. however, even if it's overplayed, it's still important to remember that jason is angry, and is driven, in part, by his anger at bruce and the joker. and, as ba highlights, he deserved to be! completely erasing jason's anger is just as bad as defining him with it.

i also don't think it's wholly accurate to say that ba is boiling jason down to just his anger. it might seem like that when only considering the dialogue and narration, but jason's behavior in the comic doesn't perfectly align with how the narrator describes him. while the narration describes him as "rageful" and could be an instance of generalization, jason's actions throughout the comic are more aligned with two other emotions/motivators: fear and despair. we never see jason get actually, properly angry; the closest we get is when he's seemingly annoyed by damian (which i believe could be performative) and when he becomes violent, accidentally hurting damian.

even in this instance, though, he is not driven to this violence by rage, but rather fear. so, while ba states in the narration that jason is driven by his anger, he contradicts himself by highlighting how jason's sadness and terror motivates his character. this could be interpreted as lousy writing on ba's part, but i'm not going to attribute the paradox to that inference. to me, it actually represents a critque of the "jason is the angry robin" generalization, because it calls to attention the discrepancies between how one is described versus reality, an issue that jason both faces in the comics (bruce using him as a cautionary tale when dying WASN'T HIS FAULT) and outside of the comics, as mentioned previously.

furthermore, this highlights the difference between what jason believes about bruce's perspective and bruce's actual perspective (according to damian). jason believes himself to be a "failure", but damian refutes this by describing his conversation with bruce concerning jason, a conversation that does not align with jason's belief. if you couldn't tell by now, perception versus reality is a BIG theme in this comic (and for jason's character in general!)

i was really fascinated by ba's take on jason, because it veered pretty far from a lot of contemporary comics, most of which do, unfortunately, play with the angry robin jason generalization. they've been doing a bit with his fear, too, which has either been pretty fun or the most awful thing ever (i'm looking at you zdarsky. gotham war was fucked up), but what makes ba's jason stand out to me is how he grapples with his grief.

this boy is so sad. ba's jason might actually be the saddest rendition of him i've seen in canon content. we've seen jason grapple a little bit with the despair rooted in his death and resurrection, mainly in lost days, where he cries 3 (?) times, fresh out of the pit and very traumatized.

even in this comic, though, he reacts to his grief with anger more prominently than sadness. that obviously doesn't mean the despair isn't there, though-- anger is just an easier outlet for it (which i could really get into the masculinity aspects of that, but then this would be wayyyyyy too long).

ba's jason, though? that motherfucker is so. sad.

christ he's depressing. AND THAT'S SUCH A FRESH PERSPECTIVE!!!!!!! THANK YOU JUNI BA!!!!!!

now i'm pretty sure some people would argue that this rendition in out of character because he's so sad. to me, though, he's still the same jason; he covers up his sadness with anger and pettiness, redirecting his own insecurities onto those around him to mask his true feelings.

ba quite literally illustrates this in the comic. whenever he is being his snide, normal self, he has his red hood mask on; but when he actually opens up to damian and expresses himself truthfully, the mask is off. ba is highlighting how the classic jason anger and bitterness is, in part, a performance and coping mechanism.

this post is already too long, so i'll go over the two other critques in a different post, which i will link below (eventually). if you guys have any thoughts you'd like to share or discuss, my dms and asks are completely open! if you made it this far, i hope you enjoyed my ranting. look out for another post soon! :))

part 2 / part 3

[fantastic-nonsense]

An Explanation of DC's Multiple Universal Reboots and How to Navigate DCU Canon

This is an expansion of a shorter explanation I gave on my Batfam Starter Recs reading list. I figured it might be helpful to have it as a standalone explanation for new comic readers learning how to navigate DC's various attempts to deal with the concept of canon.

The Multiverse is a storytelling device within DC Comics that explains how most of the comics DC has published are tied together or are separate from each other. There exists a "main" universe, where most of DC's published comics collectively take place, and then several alternate universes where things happened differently than they did in the main universe. The multiverse allows writers to explore various concepts like "what if the Jack the Ripper murders happened in Victorian-era Gotham?" and "what if DC's women were the primary heroes of their universe and fought in World War II?" without affecting anything going on in the main universe.

DC Comics canon works in three "mainline" universes:

the pre-Crisis universe (everything published from the beginning of DC Comics until the Crisis on Infinite Earths event in 1986)

the post-Crisis universe (everything published between 1986 and 2011)

the post-Flashpoint universe (everything published from 2011-now)

In the 1980s, management at DC decided that continuity had become too outdated, convoluted, and contradictory to tell coherent stories within a shared universe as more stories were told, new characters were introduced, and new context to prior stories was added. The company had previously attempted to solve this problem in the 1960s by publishing "Flash of Two Worlds," assigning existing stories to two different universes (Earth-One and Earth-Two), and creating a smattering of other alternate universes (Earth-Three was the home of the Crime Syndicate, evil AU versions of the Justice League, for example), but found that this did not actually solve the issue.

So. They decided to do a total universal reboot. That reboot was initiated by the company-wide crossover event known as Crisis on Infinite Earths, published from 1985 to 1986.

COIE effectively rebooted the entire internal DC Universe from the dawn of time onward. A new universal history now existed: the vast majority of characters/character history, history, and events from the varying alternate timelines that existed in the previous universe were retold, retooled, condensed, and/or thrown out in favor of a new, theoretically streamlined single reality. From 1986-2011, DC Comics mainline continuity was published in this shared universe, which industry professionals and fans alike called the 'post-Crisis' universe; in-universe, we refer to this primary version of DC's continuity "New Earth" (or occasionally, Earth-0).

For a wide variety of reasons that I won't get into here, DC completely rebooted their universe again in 2011 following the Flashpoint event comic. This new primary universe—interchangeably called the New 52 universe, post-Flashpoint universe, or Prime Earth, depending on the conversation—once again drastically changed many characters’ histories, personalities, and relationships with each other (sometimes for the better, most of the time for the worse). This is the current universe for DC's main comic line.

Within these three overarching iterations of the DCU, there were several events aimed to clean up, refresh, or reorganize various continuity problems. You may hear people refer to "post-Zero Hour" continuity, for example, to describe post-Crisis events/character histories that were revamped after Zero Hour: Crisis in Time! was published in 1994. "post-Rebirth" continuity, another common descriptor, refers to the reorganization of the post-Flashpoint/Prime Earth universe that happened after the Rebirth event in 2016.

GENERALLY SPEAKING, these are the most common ones you'll hear about:

Pre-Crisis Universe (1937-1986): "Flash of Two Worlds" (1961)

Post-Crisis Universe (1986-2011): pre/post-Zero Hour (1994-2005), post-Infinite Crisis and One Year Later (2005-2008), & post-Final Crisis (2008-2011)

Post-Flashpoint Universe (2011-present): The New 52 (comics written from 2011-2015), Convergence/DCYou (the first attempt to fix New 52 continuity, lasted from 2014-2016), pre/post-Rebirth (2016-2021)—and within Rebirth continuity there were two events, Dark Knights: Metal and its sequel, Death Metal, that did some minor universal revamps (2018-2021)—and post-Death Metal continuity, also known as Infinite Frontier (2021-present). Dark Crisis (2022) also exists but didn't really change the multiversal lore status quo, just simplified the explanation.

Other important universal lore-related things to note about these events:

Prior to Crisis on Infinite Earths, the DCU was an "infinite multiverse." There were no limits on the number of alternate universes that existed and no in-depth explanation for how they were connected or unconnected to the DCU's main timeline.

COIE destroyed the infinite multiverse and condensed everything into one, single universe. Between 1986 and 2005, there were technically no acknowledged alternate universes beyond the "antimatter universe."

"Hypertime" was created by Mark Waid and Alex Ross in 1999 as a way to get around this rule and eventually became the "go-to" way of explaining and fixing various continuity errors. Hypertime is a network of alternate timeline "echoes" that branch off from the main DCU timeline and occasionally overlap with each other, causing alterations in reality.

Since there could only be one timeline, continuity discrepencies were often "fixed" by explaining that one version of events happened in a previous, now destroyed timeline (that characters may or may not remember). Characters could cross from one timeline to another if needed, but any changes resulting from time travelers messing with events caused the destruction of their orginal timeline.

The "Elseworlds" imprint was another method of writing alternate universe stories without explicitly acknowledging the multiverse existed. DC officially just called these books "non-canon" stories without trying to explain how they existed in relation to the main universe. Most if not all of these stories are now considered part of the multiverse.

The infinite multiverse was briefly restored after Infinite Crisis in 2005 and then merged into a single 52-universe multiverse the year afterwards in 52. This new, limited multiverse was explained as there being an "original" Earth (Earth-0) with each successive universe being further and further removed from that one.

The initial post-Flashpoint/New 52 explanation of the multiverse was that there was a limited 52-universe multiverse. That explanation was somewhat overwritten after Rebirth and fully retconned after Death Metal.

Death Metal introduced the concept of the "omniverse," a multiverse of infinite multiverses. Yes, this is dumb. Yes, we generally ignore it and it has now been fully retconned.

The "Dark Multiverse" (a temporary "dark negative counterpart" of each Multiverse reality created by the fears of a universe's people) is theoretically a thing that exists. No, no one else really understands it either and the concept is generally restricted to the two Metal events.

Since Dark Crisis, the DCU is once again a single infinite multiverse in the vein of late pre-Crisis continuity. Every universe and continuity exists, and some are closer to the mainline reality than others.

Right now, the main DCU is once again a singular multiverse with an infinite number of universes. Technically, every version of "mainline universe" history throughout the existence of the multiverse is now considered to have occurred and is remembered by the inhabitants of Prime Earth. In practice, this means that "everything is nebulously canon or non-canon until explicitly acknowledged by a writer to have definitively happened and/or be something that a character remembers happening to them."

Unfortunately, not a lot of writers are doing much with that concept right now outside of picking and choosing their favorite parts of mainline canon to focus on and/or re-canonize, but it at least presents a path forward where a lot of the continuity and characterization issues created by the New 52 reboot are able to be properly addressed.

I hope this explanation was helpful for people, and I'm happy to try and field any further questions as well!

[seilnakyle]

The way Selina was immediately encouraging Bruce to help Jason 🥺 mama cat from the jump!

[zahri-melitor]

Thinking about Tim’s morality, what always gets to me is that Tim clearly developed it on his own, within his own rules of ethics, because we know how often Tim worked without Bruce or Dick from the very first stories.

Tim saw a problem with Bruce and sought out Dick to help.

Tim’s next story with Dick involves Tim showing up on Dick’s doorstep and claiming Bruce told him to learn how to be a Robin from Dick (which seems…dubious, given the rockiness of Dick and Bruce’s relationship at that stage).

After Tim received his costume and before his proper ‘first patrol’, Tim was on his own in Paris, having to make decisions on who to trust and listen to between Lynx, Clyde Rawlins, Lady Shiva, Edmund Dorrance and Henri Ducard.

Tim went out to track down Joker because he’d broken out and Bruce wasn’t available because he was overseas at the time. Against the advice of Alfred. While being a tiny Robin.

Tim chose to work with Helena and Steph and Lonnie and JPV and Selina, even when Bruce told him not to, even when he was hiding working with them from Bruce. And when they worked with him, Tim was very clear on what his ethical framework looked like and most of the time those he was working with compromised to follow Tim’s views on killing. But also - Tim was the one choosing to work with them, showing flexibility in comparison to how Bruce would have preferred him to act.

Tim was set by Bruce to teach Jean-Paul Valley how to be a vigilante in Gotham, when he was 14 years old and had only been a vigilante for a couple of months in universe. He didn’t have Bruce backing him up (because Bruce was firstly busy and then recovering overseas from serious injury). He didn’t really have Alfred (who was focused on Bruce). He didn’t have Dick (because Dick’s life was similarly in the end stages of falling apart in New York). He had himself and his wits and what assistance Harold could give him, trying to show JPV how they worked and then later trying to rein in JPV after being punched in the face and Azbats going off the rails.

His ethics can’t be following someone else’s cues (the ‘list on the fridge from Bruce’ joke) because Tim had to work it all out for himself with Bruce barely around and often not focused on him. He didn’t have a Batfam around him when he was starting out until he built one.

His ethics can’t be ‘two seconds from killing’ because if Tim needed to be restrained from killing, that would have become noticeable back when he was working with Lady Shiva and Henri Ducard. Before he even really was Robin.

If Tim was dogmatic and unable to compromise and hung up on the rules being the rules, he would never have teamed up with Steph and Shiva and Helena and Selina, all people he got into trouble for working with.

It’s just such a misreading of Tim’s fundamental character and how he built his own moral code and decided what was important to him largely independently of anyone else. Tim doesn’t kill, and one of the fundamental reasons he doesn’t is because he chose not to and he sees it as a line too far.

He worked that out on his own.

[spocks-husband]

There's something so so special to me about Bruce and Zatanna being childhood best friends. I genuinely just love their friendship so much-- like they probably could have romantic chemistry if you want but honestly I think that their platonic bond is so unbelievably strong and I definitely prefer it that way.

She's the only Justice Leaguer who knew him before his parents died-- hell, she's one of the only people on the face of the planet who knew him before his parents died. There's a piece of Bruce's soul that she knows in a way that honestly I think probably only Alfred does.

He's a logical man; he's suspicious of magic even when he knows it's factually real. He wants so badly to be in control of everything around him, and he just can't be, and that terrifies him.

Zatanna on the other hand is naturally relaxed, free flowing. She sees the universe as something to be in, not take control of. There's so much that their strengths and weaknesses can teach each other. I'm obsessed with them.

Additionally I also think we should throw her into the Batfam more often. Just for fun. She's their cool magical aunt.

Oh I'm totally gonna put her in my fic now

[galaxymagitech]

“Tim literally has beef with a 10-year-old. He’s ten, a teenager shouldn’t have beef with him.”

Have you met a ten-year-old? As someone who has three brothers who have all been ten-year-olds, it’s difficult not to have beef with your ten-year-old siblings. Even if you love them.

They look sweet, but they’re old enough to weaponize that. In truth, many ten-year-olds are demonic gremlins, assassin training or not. They have a concept of personal space…but they don’t care about yours. They thrive on attention, and often negative attention from siblings is entertaining to them. You try not to have beef against someone who knows you hate being touched, especially without warning, but will still sneak up on you and poke you in the back. Because you not feeling safe is funny.

Demonic. Gremlins.

(This is mostly a joke, but…yeah. Having beef with your ten-year-old gremlin of a brother is totally normal, even if he didn’t try to murder you. You can love a sibling and still have beef with them.)

[umbrellajam]

Tim Drake Reading List - before his Robin (1993) solo

I'm sure this has been done many times before, but I'd been meaning for a while now to put together my own reading list for Tim prior to his 1993 solo, as I so often see that recommended as the starting point for him, but. Well. There's a lot of key material for Tim before that and Robin 1993 also starts very weirdly in medias res smack dab in the middle of the Knightfall event, which throws people off all the time, lol.

So anyway, a list! Not 100% comprehensive, but hopefully a helpful overview to somebody, somewhere :)

PRE-TIM CONTEXT

A Death in the Family (Batman #426-429) – Jason is murdered by the Joker. We all know this one, hopefully.

New Titans #55 – Dick finds out about Jason’s death, and comes to Gotham aiming to both console and confront Bruce about it. They have a fight; Bruce backhands Dick and tells him to leave.

Batman: Year Three (Batman #436-439) – despite the above, Dick returns to Gotham soon afterward due to Tony Zucco’s parole hearings, and we see him continue to worry and reach out to Bruce as the man fails miserably at dealing with Jason’s death; we also have the first appearance of Tim in the flashback to Dick’s origin at the circus.

INTRO AND PRE-ROBIN ARCS

A Lonely Place of Dying (alternating Batman #440-442 and New Titans #60-61) – Tim’s proper intro arc, tracking Dick down at the circus to try and convince him to become Robin again, as Batman continues to go off the rails and “Batman needs Robin”. He ultimately gets accepted for a trial/training period before he can become Robin.

Batman #443-445 – cute training-period issues where Bruce awkwardly starts to teach Tim and Tim is an eager beaver.

New Titans #65 – Tim shows up on an exasperated Dick’s doorstep in New York, and we get a really great Dick & Tim training issue.

The Penguin Affair (Batman #448, Detective Comics #615, Batman #449) – a fun early Bruce & Tim arc that includes the introduction of Harold Allnut as the Bat team's mute engineering genius, Bruce angsting and second-guessing himself about having a new Robin but still wanting to encourage Tim (“Remember to thank him later. The boy needs reassurance.”) and also civilian!Tim taking part in the operation with adorable pre-Robin code names (“Little bat to big bat. Target in cross-hairs.”)

Batman #450, Detective Comics #617, Batman #451 – a short arc about the Joker resurfacing for the first time since being presumed dead at the end of A Death in the Family. Tim appears minimally because Bruce panics and sends him out of the country immediately (along with his entire school class lol), but there’s lots of angst and introspection from Bruce on Jason's death and Robin in general.

Rite of Passage (Detective Comics #618-621) – includes Tim’s parents being kidnapped, his mother’s death, and his father ending up paralyzed and in a coma.

EARLY ROBIN ERA

Identity Crisis (Batman #455-457) – includes Tim’s devastation and struggle in the wake of what happened to his parents, wrestling with the legacy and meaning of Batman & Robin in a way he hadn’t understood before, and whether he’s prepared for it. Also Janet Drake’s funeral, and ultimately Tim’s official graduation to the Robin mantle.

Robin I: A Hero Reborn #1-5 – Tim’s first solo mini-series as Robin; his first of many trips to Paris as part of his training, where he first encounters Lady Shiva and King Snake. This is also where Tim picks up his iconic bo staff for the first time, with training from Shiva.

Batman #465-469 – Tim’s first actual patrols with Bruce, and the return of King Snake.

Detective Comics #635-637 – the “Bruce & Tim have to fight video games come to life” arc, lol. I would call these fun but optional.

Robin II: The Joker’s Wild! #1-4 – Tim’s second solo mini; the Joker returns to Gotham while Bruce is out of the country and unreachable, and Tim as a barely fledged Robin has to thwart the clown’s plans with only Alfred to aid him.

“To the Father I Never Knew…” (Batman #480) – An important issue on Tim’s relationship with his father, especially now that he’s woken up from his coma and is suddenly interested in Tim, when he barely had been before. Lots of Tim angst and struggle, framed through a bitter letter he’s writing to his dad. Alfred also slyly nudges Tim to look into the estate next door to Wayne Manor, when he’s trying to figure out how or even if he’ll be able to continue as Robin now that his Dad is awake.

Electric City (Detective Comics #644-646) – includes Batman’s heart getting stopped due to electrocution, and Tim viciously threatening the villain to get him to defibrillate Bruce back to life. (“You’re going to shock Batman’s heart back online or I’m going to tear you apart.”)

Batman #481 – the notable bit here is Tim and Jack check out the estate next door to Wayne Manor and basically decide to take it.

Detective Comics #647-649 – the introduction of Stephanie Brown as Spoiler, including her thwarting/attempting to off her dad and also the infamous scene where she clobbers Robin in the face with a brick, lol.

Robin Annual #1 – Tim’s first team-up with Lonnie Machin/Anarky.

PRELUDE TO KNIGHTFALL

Batman #486 – Tim driving Jack to his medical appointments with Dr. Shondra Kinsolving, and worrying with Alfred over Bruce’s growing self-destructiveness in the prelude to Knightfall.

Robin III: Cry of the Huntress #1-6 – Tim’s third solo mini, and his first team-up with Helena Bertinelli as the Huntress. Also, Tim’s first meeting with Ariana Dzerchenko, who will be his first girlfriend, and friction/fights between Jack and Tim as Tim skips out on school and tries to cover up his Robin work. Includes a blow-up fight over Jack threatening to send Tim back to boarding school for his misbehavior. ("Who is the son you know, Dad? You don't know me. You never bothered. You shipped me from one boarding school to another and nobody paid any attention as long as my grades stayed high. You and mom were too involved running around the world.")

Batman #488-490 – the Bats start working with Jean-Paul Valley/Azrael, including Robin recruiting him to fill in temporarily as Batman when Bruce is ill. Bane’s plans to exhaust and break the Bat ramp up in the lead-in to Knightfall.

Showcase ‘93 #2-6 – Tim’s first time teaming up with Catwoman as they take on the crimelord Bracuda. This storyline will later cross over with one of Dick’s in the Bracuda & Chulo arc for Dick & Tim's first real team-up.

KNIGHTFALL

I won’t go over this whole period in detail as it’s quite a long storyline (link to the fandom wiki for all the info and issues), but some highlights for Tim are:

Detective Comics #660 – Tim tracks Bane down to his hideout but then gets captured and caught in the middle of a fight between Bane and Croc in the sewers.

Batman #494 – Tim drags himself home and presses Bruce to accept help in the wake of the mass Arkham break-out organized by Bane.

Detective Comics #661-662 – Batman sidelining Robin again while fighting Firefly and Tim again repeatedly badgering Bruce to accept help; Tim later takes down Firefly largely alone.

Batman #497-498 – Bane breaks Batman’s back; Bruce appoints JPV to succeed him as Batman despite Tim asking about Dick. JPV as AzBats goes increasingly off the rails during his time as Batman.

Batman #500 – Tim refuses to be party to the new Batman’s brutal methods, but is blown off by an increasingly unstable JPV. Dick finally shows up in the storyline while Tim is brooding outside the Manor. Dick is angry that he had to hear about Bruce’s devastating injury secondhand and that Bruce chose someone else to take up the mantle of Batman.

The Flash #81-83 – optional context, but this is Dick’s side of the build-up to the Bracuda & Chulo crossover with Tim. Dick and Kory visit Wally after their disastrous interrupted wedding (which Tim attended) and Dick’s ouster as leader of the Titans in New Titans #100-101. Dick ends up embroiled in an investigation of the criminal Chulo.

Showcase ‘93 #11-12 – Dick and Tim’s first proper team-up as Nightwing and Robin! Extremely fun and character revealing interactions as they navigate working together while barely knowing each other. My notes on these quote practically everything in both issues – they're fantastic.

Detective Comics #667-668 – Tim finds out that JPV has walled off the secret tunnel from Drake Manor to the Batcave. He also gets his driver’s license early (at 14) as a special dispensation due to his father’s handicap. This issue leads directly into the first issue of Tim’s solo, ending as he's caught sneaking back into the Cave. AzBats grabs and lifts Robin by his neck, choking him, which is how Robin (1993) #1 opens.

Finally, alongside the early issues of Tim’s solo, be sure not to miss the full Batman: Prodigal arc (https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Batman:_Prodigal), which covers Dick’s first stint wearing the Cowl of the Bat with Tim as his Robin. This is the period where they first really spent time together and bonded, and includes Robin (1993) #11-13. The whole thing is a banger, and essential reading.

[disco-troy]

Today on the “dc accidentally parallels Bruce’s relationship with his kids with Actual Supervillains” we have Bruce and Joker with Jason.

Jason calmly looking into the eyes of the men who just rewired his brain to fit their ideals asking “why?”

Jason panel 1: ..Batman? You did something to me… what did you do?

Jason panel 2 (to the joker): what did you do to me? Joker: I gave you the tiniest tiny est dose of joker toxin. So small. Just enough to bring back that psychotic alter ego of yours in your head.

It’s the last thing he can do after all the self determination was taken for him. The closest he can get to a rebellion after rendered powerless by his own brain. It’s asking why and never getting a response. Once from his father and once from his murderer. But the result is still the same.

Joker goes even farther with this metaphor, likening himself to Jason’s mother.

Joker: doesn’t mommy gets a say?

This has the idea of further drawing a parellel between what Joker and Bruce are to Jason in this arc. They are forces that shape him and make him what they want. It doesn’t matter what Jason wants or even needs, because “parents know best”. The truth is, for both of Jason’s “parents” Jason’s well-being is just an excuse for them to change him for their own benefit. Bruce wants Jason to stop fighting crime in Gotham like “a bull in a china shop” and wants to assuage his guilt about what Jason has gone through. Joker wants to fuck with Batman. In this way Jason just becomes a causality in his own life.

What makes the comparison between Bruce and Joker even more tragic is that it’s because of Bruce’s machinations that Jason was vulnerable enough to be taken by the joker in the first place…

Still skittish I see, my poor little vigilante. What did he do to you? Jason: please just let me go Joker: I can’t stand to see you like this. Mean old Batman mucked around in your little head and made you so scared of everything. But don’t worry. I came to text out my new project and fix you at the same time.

Something which the Joker explicitly acknowledges!

And the way that Jason was left alone and vulnerable after Jason literally saved Gotham by driving a plane into a fucking meteor AND immediately went to comfort Bruce?! Like this implies AFTER Jason acted as an emotional crutch, Bruce didn’t even go let’s put you in contact with Babs so you are not running around with fear in your veins and no one to support you?

To reiterate: dc why are you having Batman do the same things to his kids that supervillains do

[oraclenthusiast]

rarely see good comic takes on tiktok but i just saw a video on why it's important to consider meta while discussing characters because comics are, at their core, a capitalist venture and like. the world would be a better place if more people understood that.

"why won't the batman kill joker" the joker is a very recognizable and popular character.

"why would batman train child soldiers" so his comics are marketable to children.

"arkham is pointless the characters keep breaking out" THEY NEED TO REUSE THE CHARACTERS TO MAKE THE COMICS MORE LIKELY TO SELL

and there are also in-canon explanations for all of these!! but comic book characters cannot be held to the standards you want them to be held to and still be profitable characters!!! let's think here!!!!