#Poison Critical

[rockanroller]

I just can’t get over loser baby it’s so horrible like “so what it you’re getting SA and on wanna break yourself, get over it you’re not unique” that is not the song you go after bombarding the audicence with SA that’s very male gazette, like this is the stuff feminists talk about when SA are made with a male gaze. The worst part is that it’s the best episode so far because it has better pacing, more character focus on Angel and no subplots or exposition dumbs and the scene with Valentino in the dressing room was ENOUGH to convey sexual and physical abuse we didn’t need so see the SA scenes, again if you have a rape fetish than all power to you you’re not exempt from criticism when people especially SA survivors don’t wanna see it

yeah i haven't seen it all yet but i caught poison on my feed w/o sound and it was rough. it felt fetishistic to me, like they wanted to get a rise out of the audience, and maybe that was the intent, to make the audience like... "sexually uncomfortable" but i don't personally agree with that being a good approach for portraying SA, in the same way i also don't believe you have to show someone violently dying an explicit gory death to portray grief.

some ppl believe in that type of content, or the "importance" of it, i personally don't bc it just makes me sick and i don't need to witness something that intense in order to empathize with a character. it just makes me not want to engage that content.

i agree w/what you're saying that there was enough there w/Val just being in the dressing room. there was also enough in Addict, and enough techniques used in other content that portrays SA, to show that it happened or Angel's discomfort with it/how it affected and still affects him w/o a lot of the more hefty visuals they used. ((and if anyone's worried: i don't recall seeing any explicit genitalia, things were "insinuated" but they were still insinuated more intensely than i personally felt was necessary--with visuals like jerking bodies in full or partial view.))

[almacambiondaughterofsaleos]

Awesome Video Taking Down "Poison"

Good criticism of Poison.

[ernestbruce]

Poison Critical podcast

[rockanroller]

jesus christ at this rate angel might’ve been a stronger—less controversial—character if there wasn’t extreme sexual abuse going on.

like seriously, he’s all about sex but most of his sexual portrayals in the show are connected to his abuse, we don’t really get to see the Angel Dust who loves sex/his job, so does he even?

even if he didn’t and this was an attempt at a tragic story—it’s muddled by the fact that would mean the very thing he hates his own creator uses for her enjoyment/his literal real-world exploitation. (he’s not real himself ik ik)

why not make him a sex worker that loves his job and his chains and just remove the abuse angle entirely. why does it even need to be there. (bc viv/raph finds it hot, ik, but from a story point.)

alternatively—seeing Angel enjoy and thrive in his sexuality despite the abuse would be extremely helpful to this entire issue, but of course we mainly see his sexuality being used as a self-harming device or directly connected to his abuse, so…blech.

disclaimer: i’m mostly just rambling out frustrations here lol i don’t have any answers

Aight, bro. Why do people keep making merch of Angel chained up and such? Why? It's practically fetishizing his abuse at this point. I would love a concrete reason for WHY this is something they decide to do. If there is a good reason that isn't tied to it being "sexy" I'd looove to hear it.

And there go Viv eating this shit up and encouraging it. Ofc she would.

[midnightcatharsis]

I still think it's crazy that Caitlyn has been using chemical weapons on innocent civilians from Zaun for months fully knowing it will cause the death of hundreds or even thousands and cause dangerous diseases to others only to spread terror and catch one girl and in the end she not only got 0 repercussions but also got to play the role of a hero.... She has been doing it for a prolonged period of time she is bound to have a super high kill count.

She is like Singed only nobody is defending Singed.

[tackykachowch]

S2: hey guys! Look at these cool new characters! They will (allegedly) help Jinx, Sevika, Vander and Silco become even more complex and-

My humble missile:

[genericpuff]

All That Glitters is Not Feminism - An Analysis of LO's Brand of "Feminism" and What Remains of its Fanbase (The Twist)

Alright y'all, I've been waiting a hot minute to talk about this because I wanted to see how it fully panned out before saying anything about it. And it's not even specifically about LO, but I do think it's very adjacent to it in a way that I'm sure you'll be shocked to hear. Much of it speaks to how we prop up white writers even at the expense of POC.

This is 'the twist' attached to my first post that I made just a couple hours ago that concerns an entirely other topic but I feel ties into this subject very well.

If you haven't heard, there's this author who recently fucked around in the Del Rey publishing scene.

Her name is Cait Corrain.

In the original tweet calling this person out, names were not dropped, but it was made very clear that what Cait did was unacceptable behavior.

You can read the entire thread that started it all from Xiran here:

There's also a GREAT recap thread from one of the affected authors, Bethany Baptiste:

I want to make it clear that Cait Corrain isn't just a debut author.

Cait Corrain is - or now, was (foreshadowing is a literary device that-) - a debut author who had an agent, a publishing deal with Del Rey (an imprint of Random House which is a MAJOR publisher) and even an upcoming Illumicrate deal - meaning, her book was going to be packaged in a monthly loot crate subscription shipped directly to people's doors, quite possibly one of the best marketing deals a debut author could ever get, usually unheard of in this industry. All the pre-reviews were strong and positive.

Cait's book was literally set up for success. All she had to do was sit back, relax, and watch the fruits of her labors roll in. She had written the book. It was ready for release. The hard part was technically over.

But I guess the racism brainrot got to her because as it turns out, since April - for EIGHT MONTHS - she's been making alternate accounts on GoodReads to review bomb the indie and debut works of her friends and peers, most of whom were POC and did not have the same opportunities set up for them as she did. There are loads of receipts to back this up that you can find in those above threads ^^^

To say that this is appalling is an understatement. This was an intentional and deliberate act of racism by a white queer writer who claimed to be "jealous" - of what, I can't imagine - so much so that she deliberately sabotaged her peers, people who had supported her and her book.

And then when she got caught? She doubled down on it and claimed it was a "friend", also an alternate account she made up.

The exchange between her and this made-up person is actually the funniest shit out of this entire thing, it's so poorly written and as soon as people noticed the time stamps were out of order, that was when it truly cemented her newfound clown status.

"oooooh he's standing right behind me, isn't he?" energy right here LMAO

yes keep expositing cait, that's really selling the "this is a genuine conversation that really happened with a real person" bit 🤡

Anyways, it became abundantly clear that Cait was just going to continue to dig her heels in over something she caused.

This has been a hot topic in the UnpopularLO Discord, not just because of how crazy of a situation it is that we had to talk about it - and we have people within the community who work in the literature and media sector - but because we noticed one very telling thing in the list of series that she had review bombed in her very own personal act of wrath.

You see, Cait made one fundamental mistake that led to her undoing - she didn't just review bomb the works of her peers, she positively reviewed her own book and others.

What's her book about though?

It's an Ariadne x Dionysus retelling set in space.

It's literally another "modern retelling" of Greek myth.

And wouldn't you know it, guess who else created a modern retelling of Greek myth that she included in her positive review raiding while she was sabotaging the work of her actual peers?

Now, I think it goes without saying that what I'm about to say should be taken with MOUNTAINS of salt, I'm sure a lot of you are reading the headline and going, "Ugh, really? You're gonna make this about LO? Could you give it a rest already???"

I need you to understand, with the current state of Rachel's fanbase and 'modern' Greek myth literature as a whole, at this point Lore Olympus - and the works that are literally inspired by it such as A Touch of Darkness - has basically become the shopping cart litmus test of basic decency. It's like when someone says they like Harry Potter - you can't take it automatically at good faith anymore, because there isn't a whole lot separating someone who simply liked Harry Potter as a kid and still rewatches the movies from time to time from someone who fully supports the politics and agenda of J.K. Rowling. No, not everyone who still watches the movies or reads the books fondly is a TERF by default, but it's justifiably a reason for suspicion when the consequences are often too dire to risk.

There's this thing that's been happening in the LO fanbase that I frankly saw coming, but has really recently started to hit its peak. It's what I call the "Kanye Effect", where the comic has become so absurd and backwards in its misogyny and white feminism that the only people who seem to be left supporting LO are the people who are legitimate white feminists and misogynists - because all the normal level-headed people fell off the comic ages ago (or transitioned into the critical side of the community).

I mentioned it in my last post, but it bears repeating - Rachel's fanbase has literally been shipping Hera, a victim of abuse, with her abuser, Kronos. I'm really hoping a lot of them realize how fucked up that is now that Hera herself has called it what it is - abuse - within the comic, but I also can't count on the LO fanbase picking up on that or even noticing it with how quickly people swipe through it each week, it's very apparent at this point that most of LO's readers don't know how to chew their food and don't pay attention when Persephone and Hades aren't onscreen.

But I'm digressing. Or am I? We're talking about Crown of Starlight after all. The debut Dionysus x Ariadne sci-fi/fantasy romance that was quite literally advertised using Lore Olympus as its baseline-

This. This is what the ongoing cultural erasure and white feminist uwu-fication of Greek myth is doing to the literary zeitgeist surrounding Greek myth as a whole. This is why we criticize Lore Olympus and works like it that are created by disingenuous people who only seek to use the assets of Greek myth material as a way to shoot themselves up into fame and stardom. This is why we demand better standards in the literature and webcomic industry, so that people like Rachel and Cait can't use their privileges to quite literally erase the source material that they used to make themselves famous in the first place.

If anything, Cait's actions didn't just affect the people she negatively review bombed, or the people she was affiliated with, but also the people she positively reviewed. While I don't support what Rachel creates, she wasn't the only one who Cait went out of her way to review positively from her alt accounts, there were many others as evident in the Google Doc - but all this really does is tarnish the legitimacy of these books and their ratings by artificially jacking up their numbers that are advertised to others.

Making Greek myth fanfiction or fun creative retellings was never the problem, but it's now being sabotaged alongside so many other genres and mediums by toxic white individuals who can't even keep themselves from committing hate crimes, let alone create something purely for entertainment that's transparent in its illegitimacy, lest it destroy the illusion that these people are qualified to speak over those whose voices are being stifled, often by these very same people. Many of these writers get caught and are still allowed to continue what they're doing - that was certainly what we feared with Cait.

Until today.

It was revealed today that Cait's book will no longer be featured in the Illumicrate May 2024 box.

Del Rey has dropped Crown of Starlight from their publishing schedule.

Daphne Press will be hopefully following suit.

And, most telling of all, Cait's own agent has severed ties with her.

For anyone not familiar with the inner workings of the publishing industry, Cait has essentially been blacklisted. Without an agent or a publishing house, she'll have to entirely rely on her own resources through self-publishing. Unless she manages to sneak her way back in under an alias (which I wouldn't put it past her to try) she no longer has access to the mainstream publishing industry that was already guaranteed for her before she let her 'jealousy' get the better of her.

Her career was already made for her. She had a red carpet laid out for her debut. Her book was getting good pre-reviews and she had quite literally nothing keeping her from her success. The best thing she could have done was nothing. Somewhere in her head, she made up a threat that didn't exist, and sealed her fate in acting on it, a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I think in these situations such as with Cait Corrain, Rachel Smythe, and - also recently and relevant - James Somerton, we need to become increasingly aware of how white voices are still overpowering POC voices, not just in their actions, but in the opportunities they're given over others which they then use to further stifle the voices of those they feel "threatened" by or feel entitled to speak over. While neither James nor Rachel have used sock puppet accounts to "take out the competition" (at least as far as we know lmao) James did quite literally steal the words and voices of queer writers who were deserving of their time in the spotlight, and Rachel's work is being quoted as "rewriting Greek myth" as if its blatant gentrification and appropriation should be marketed as some sort of positive.

It's all too common for these deeply-rooted prejudices to rear their ugly heads and for the people who carry them to act out in this way while justifying it as "jealousy" or "a mistake". This isn't jealousy. This isn't a mistake. This isn't someone "starting drama". This is genuine, targeted hate, with the intention of snuffing out the voices of others who should be empowered, not silenced.

All that time and effort, and for what? Racism and petty jealousy? It just goes to show, it doesn't matter how many opportunities you're given, how high up on the ladder you already are - it won't fix the deeply-rooted insecurity and racial pettiness that spurs people on to do such horrible things.

I've spent enough of my time and words today talking about Cait, and James, and Rachel. So to end this off, I want to join in with all the others who have highlighted the books that were review-bombed by Cait, and help in uplifting them so they can have successful debuts. I'll be pre-ordering a few of them, so I'll be happy to make dedicated posts for them in the future after they release. Please consider purchasing them for yourself if you want some new reading material <3

The Poisons We Drink by Bethany Baptiste:

So Let Them Burn by Kamilah Cole:

To Gaze Upon Wicked Gods by Molly X Chang:

Mistress of Lies by K.M. Enright

Voyage of the Damned by Frances White:

(I'm sure there are plenty others so if I missed any here, please let me know so I can add them here and check out their books!)

If there's any silver lining to this, I hope that it makes people aware of the media they consume and who it's being created by. I hope it makes people more willing to seek out the books that aren't getting the same opportunities as Cait Corrain and Rachel Smythe. I hope it's a wake-up call to the industry that matters like this need to be taken seriously and that POC writers are still being silenced under their own noses. And most of all, I hope it's a reminder that we shouldn't even need at this point that this behavior is not okay, no matter what level a person climbs to - that just because someone is part of one minority doesn't mean they're not capable of sabotaging another. It sucks that that has to be said, it sucks that despite these groups being so intersectional there are still people within them who submit to their deeply-rooted insecurities and find ways to feel threatened that they use to justify hateful behavior.

Having a platform is a privilege. It should never be weaponized against your own peers or those who you simply feel "threatened" by for no reason beyond your own imposter syndrome or doubts or internal struggles. Because as much as you may feel like you've earned where you are, that never gives you the right to weaponize your opportunities against others who were never given those same opportunities in the first place. "Feminism" is not using your power to crush "other women". "Progressiveness" is not exclusive to the progress that only benefits you.

I wish only the best to those who were affected by the actions of Cait Corrain. You deserve to be heard and seen and appreciated for the work you do and the abuse you've had to tolerate. I look forward to your debuts in 2024 <3

[lunian]

when someone says something like "at least, Veilguard is more fun to play than Inquisition" I'm like, the most sane (no) Inquisition connoisseur:

yesterday I spent at least one hour just to solely craft the most perfect armour for my lovely hot mage companions which they will wear for like 5-7 hrs before we all level up and I'm gonna craft something new again

then +3 hrs for looting any crap my sensor catches bc its actually one of the most relaxing thing for my tired brain

meanwhile Veilguard stole even my POISONS, BOMBS AND ELIXIRS WHICH I USED AND CRAFTED FOR ALL MY ROGUES AND WARRIORS SINCE ORIGINS

WHO THOUGHT IT WAS A GOOD IDEA🔪

[rockanroller]

Honestly episode 4 wasn’t too bad, and this coming from someone whose been SA. surprised Ralph isn’t credited as a writer some this pretty much is just there fan comics and Valentino animatics, like viv stole all their ideas lol.

introducing Valentino is episode 2 was a bad idea because he’s voice performance is the absolute worst, they stepped it up in episode 4 by not giving him many lines and putting a voice filter on him. The stuff with Husk was ok, I can’t see them as a ship I just see them as the friend Angel needs and not a boyfriend, I didn’t think they’d drop his backstory so soon into the show and honestly I’ve seen fans do better lol

Loser baby is a nice song but not something you’d sing for someone whose been SA and is on a self destructive path. it’s a song that should’ve been saved for Charlie and Husk. Poison was definitely voyeuristic like if they wanted to show the mental effect it has on Angel they could’ve showed the aftermath of him beat up, crying just having a full blown panic attack like they did with addict. Idk why they villanious and disrespect sex work so much lol it’s painted as a negative and something to be shameful about,

Animation was really good, just these designs are so ugly

that's fair. i've seen some saying it's absolutely god-awful, while others have said it was good, or it was ok and they can see the potential / the aim but the execution missed the mark, etc.

idk if i'll be able to watch it anytime soon, lots of what i've seen has left such a rotten taste in my mouth/stomach that i'll have to give myself a few days or weeks before i attempt it.

they...put a voice filter...on Valentino...? what kind of filter?? what??? i can also understand seeing Husk and Angel more as friends than boyfriends. even tho i haven't seen the episode, the bits and pieces that've come across my feed have given me that same impression.

for Loser Baby i haven't heard it but i got the same impression you did, and the concept of it being a Husk and Charlie song sounds like a *much* better and more fitting idea. Loser Baby *felt* like it was attempting to do a "this sucks so make the best of it" or "you'll only be seen as trash so embrace it" empowerment thing but all i've seen and heard it seems to feel more "it won't get better so don't try" or smth like that.

i just caught Poison on my feed w/o the music and it was rough. i def agree with you that if it'd been more like Addict it would've been better, but this felt very "sex sells" and i don't think that's the right "rise" to attempt to get out of your audience when touching on SA, it felt more like...i feel like there's term for it i'm forgetting but it's like a type of masochistic/pity fetish where the narrative attempts to get the viewer sexually invested in a tragic character if that makes sense? idk how to explain it, i'll make a follow-up post if it comes back to me.

animation was fine from what i saw, seemed to be the most consistent (so far) but it still suffered from the quick / constant unnecessary and jarring camera shifting the rest of the show suffers from imo.

ty for sharing your thoughts!

[anistarrose]

the thing I keep coming back to about TAZ Balance, I think, is that there's heroes — lots of them, even — but there's not really a hero, not a singular one. when our characters try to save the world all on their own, and oh, do they try, their arcs — while eventually culminating in happy endings, for the most part — are, at the time, cast as tragedies. lone heroes, in TAZ Balance, are invariably tragic heroes.

Lucretia can't gather all the Grand Relics and defeat the Hunger on her own. Barry can't find Lup, much less sway Lucretia from her plan, on his own. Lup, crushed by guilt, sets off to neutralize her greatest mistake without even facing her family as she leaves, and that decision sets the story into motion in the first place. their intent to spare their family, to shoulder the burden alone so no one else will have to, fixes little and leaves them isolated. lonely. trapped.

even Magnus, rustic Folk Hero of Raven's Roost, fails to avenge the community that took him in. he sets off on a solitary mission to do so, never opening up about his pain to even his closest friends, but he never sees Kalen again. yet, maybe not too late, he learns, or rather, remembers — the strength to protect and avenge others comes from the strength to ask for help. the last thing helping anyone is trying to do this alone.

Lucretia assembles the Bureau, and as soon as she sees a way, brings Tres Horny Boys back under her wing. Barry, the very same day that Lucretia recruits them, sees the Phoenix Fire Gauntlet surface, and realizes it's time to put his trust in his family again — he shows himself to them soon after, and even with him putting up a facade, that's progress. and Lup, with endless time to reflect, is possibly the first of all of them to see where she went wrong. she won't be making that mistake again.

there's not a singular hero of the story, because taking on the burden of saving everyone is no task meant for one person. there's "our heroes," Tres Horny Boys, and there's the secondary, "secret," but no less important heroes who complete the ranks of the IPRE, but none can defeat the Hunger — nor reunite their family, nor vanquish an old foe — without leaning on each other, and on the new bonds they forged on this cycle. leaning on Johann, Kravitz, Team Sweet Flips, and the whole ensemble; every single connection that convinced them not to flee but to fight.

accepting that none of them can, that none of them should, be the hero alone — that's what averts the tragic end. the Hunger, terrible as it is, is wholly united, sharing and amplifying each other's despair. the only way to victory is to rely on each other, to care for each other, to learn how to be cared for, and to let your loved ones grant you hope.

[calcified-fluorited]

A lot of people in this fandom throw around terms like media literacy and complex/morally grey characters, but if you understand that they are morally grey, why are you making excuses for them?

Yes, Cait's actions can be perfectly explained (grief, privilege, the system as a whole, her experiences and so on). They are, however, not excuses. She is a complex character, which means some of her actions will be indefensible, so why are people so bent on washing her hands?

No this isn't about her and vi this is about the poison gas, which is known to cause long term health problems, and was a product of piltover in the first place, its use is facilitated by the system and the inequality.

I don't understand why so many people, including the writers, are glossing over the poison gas thing.

[foldbaron]

[biracy]

Once u learn to be critical of rhetoric that relies on associating [supposed bad thing] with some form of psychological and/or neurological "damage", u really notice just how prevalent it is on here. Everyone you don't like is delusional, they're insane, they have brain damage, they need to Check The Carbon Monoxide Detectors, they need to Get Help and Go To Therapy, [form of media and/or communication] is literally brain poison, they've had their attention spans destroyed, they're "small brain" or "smooth brain" or "brain dead" or whatever. So many people on here remain seemingly incapable of criticizing someone's actions or views without needing to insinuate that the "problem" is neurological, "in the brain", unchangeable, fundamental. I should not have to explain why it is insensitive, nonconstructive, and oftentimes straight-up ableist to tell someone that they must have "brain damage" because you got into an argument with them online.

[resisteverything]

You know what I don’t get about Poison? It’s an attempt at a pop hit. It has a constantly repeated chorus with little variation, doesn’t forward the plot, is general enough to have been a fansong rather than part of the plot, literally rips off a fan made pop song, has a living tombstones remix, is a single on spotify, its literally a pop song with none of the qualities of a show tune, it’s like Hazbin hotel is trying to make the rape song a radio hit.

Why? Addict was a pop song but it wasn’t also a show tune, and it wasn’t about rape, it was about Angel as a character and his life, and there was a sense of melancholy but not that of being a rape victim.

I get the idea of poison, it’s basically “all you wanna do” with less satirical edge and a more serious tone, but it’s just handled so weirdly.

[lilyvalerieorchard]

So Solid Lily just released a preview of her "Utena In A Nutshell" video and..

Then towards the end...

OH FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!

AKIO'S OBSESSION WITH HIS SISTER WAS ALWAYS PORTRAYED AS MESSED UP.

ADORA AND CATRA WERE NEVER SISTERS.

STOP COMPARING EVERYTHING ON THE PLANET TO YOUR PRECIOUS CANNIBAL-INCEST GAME. YOU ARE NOT BEATING ANY OF THOSE ALLIGATIONS.

[slutdge]

"but mcr and green day mean so much to queer people!!!" wow thats sad, i hope the people in my community get better taste. still not punk music.