#I loved the vengeance saga so much

[snugg-bugg]

I love the Vengeance saga sm….

so here are my thoughts

NOT SORRY FOR LOVING YOU:

This was SO pretty. Wangui has such a beautiful voice and she added so much depth to the character. But i still HATE Calypso. They could never make me like you Calypso. I liked How Jorge really made her seem like she just never learned how it was wrong to expect love in return regardless of circumstance. Especially the part “Was cast away when I was young

Alone for a hundred years

I had no friends but the sky and sun

So when you washed ashore

I thought for sure that you were my dream come true”

It really did a good job at showing she never learned because she never got a chance to learn these things.

DANGEROUS:

HECK YES HERMES!!! He was so so iconic and I loved how we was just partying while Ody was fighting for his life. My favorite part was defined the Wing Bag. Especially the winions. The melodies just seemed so much darker and serious then the playful tone of Keep Your Friends Close. I also loved the Athena reference at the end. I honestly hope Odysseus doesn’t learn it was her, it would make it so much more tragic.

CHARYBDIS:

This was the song I was looking forward to the most and I was not let down! The musical storytelling was so so good! Everything about it that I imagined is practically exactly what was on the animatic. Also extra points to part of it being done by @anniflamma (i’m not even gonna try to lie, Anni is my favorite Epic Animator) I LOVED the final verse. It was so pretty and Jorge portrayed the Longing of Odysseus SO WELL. I also adored the expectation diversion leading into…

GET IN THE WATER:

First off the Intrumentals starting the song were BEAUTIFUL!!! The piano was so striking and i loved it! Steven Rodriguez is genuinely PERFECT for Poseidon. I’m not gonna lie Poseidon is my favorite Greek God(Blame PJO) and Ruthlessness is actually the song that got me into EPIC. So it was amazing to hear him again. My Blood ran cold during the “Ruthlessness… Is Mercy Upon… Ourselves” part and I loved the overlapping vocals of the “Die”. And because it’s a bossfight it just has to end with making me cry. The “spirits” of Odysseus’s comrades was so pretty and I think it was my favorite(besides love in paradise ofc) of the “Heartbreaking remembering comrades” moments.

600 STRIKE!!!

1st of holy shit the Wind bag is such a cool Bossfight instrumental. It was so freaking cool(I love all the Wind parts in EPIC). I was a little disappointed by the Visuals, no disrespect to the artist at all! But i just thought the 3d was a little jarring. I truthfully think it would have been a little better if it was 2d. Enough of visual art talk though MUSICAL art talk time! I LOVED the chanting throughout the first-half. It was such a great(I think) wrap up to the Crews story and it also sounded awesome.

600 STRIKE: PART 2(that part)

Steven Rodriguez’s voice is really hot. I just had to get that out of the way. But in all seriousness this is my favorite moment of the Saga. I don’t think 600 strike was my favorite song, that title goes to Get in the Water, but 600 strike is a close 2nd solely based on the epicness of this moment. The way my heart just stopped when Odysseus said “Exactly” was just something I’ll never get over. Also I’m weird and i loved hearing Poseidon in pain.(I like my fav. characters to suffer). Also the overlapping vocals(can i even call poseidon’s part vocals it’s just him screaming in pain) was PHENOMENAL! I especially loved the 2nd “OOoohhhh” I saw someone say that Poseidon likely regenerated around the trident before it was pulled out and that’s engraved in my brain now.

And hot Take.

I think that Poseidon was actually ASKING Odysseus how he sleeps at night. During Monster Ody says “Is he scared that he’s doing something wrong” and I actually think Ody was right. Poseidon’s “I can’t” during Get In The Water seems genuine. I don’t know if it was because He literally couldn’t forgive Ody because of what Ody did, or if He’s is actually just trying to “keep us in check so we respect him, and now no one dares piss him off”. This may just be me over-analyzing/trying to sympathize my fav character but does Poseidon actually wonder if he’s doing something wrong.

And Finally, NEXT TO MY WIFE was actually so FRAKING cold. If someone said that to me i’d be devastated.

Ultimately the Vengeance saga was probably my 2nd favorite saga(after wisdom i just adore god games) Jorge did an AMAZING job with it and I’m so excited to see how much more a monster rawr rawr rawr Ody becomes.

I hope you enjoy my thoughts (:

[larytheflary]

So when odysseus fought Poseidon, notice how he gets really aggressive? The theory is that Ares helped him during this fight, like Athena did with Telemachus

Jay told us that he imagines Ares' power similar to Athena's quick thought, in his case they can incite a rage, causing Odysseus to be more brave and more resistant to pain

Because Athena couldn't support Ody in this fight, Ares did. His sister promised him bloodshed and he was there for it.

I read a post by perplexiglass about this so this isn't my theory but I think it's great and wanted to share 😍 all credits to this awesome person (https://vm.tiktok.com/ZGdLAVhbM/)

"show me what my sister saw in you, King of Ithaca!"

[xixovart]

can you draw Penelope and Telemachus?

used to sloanslone's designs bc i have yet to come up with my own THEY ARE SO AKJWNAKBDNQ

[w3ndytheraccoon]

Vengeance Saga is coming out in a day and I would like to say something regarding I’m Not Sorry for Loving You

I better not see anyone using that song as an excuse for Calypso. That song is an explanation for her character, not an excuse. The song is literally about how she’s not sorry for trapping and unintentionally abusing Odysseus for seven years.

It’s not an apology (Literally in the name. If it was then it’s a pretty bad and victim blamey apology), it’s not an excuse, it’s just an explanation. And I will be damned if people use it to excuse her, gods know there’s enough Calypso apologist in the Epic fandom and just in media related to the Odyssey in general.

[gotstabbedbyapen]

I have very complicated feelings for the Vengeance Saga (after the first listen)

Disclaimer: I will only criticize Epic the Vengeance Saga as a work on its own, not for its inaccuracy or deviation from mythology and The Odyssey. There are more knowledgable people who can point out and analyze the changes in Epic the Musical, but that is not what I'll be tackling here.

To put it bluntly, I'm not being angsty about it as I should. The whole saga just... didn't feel right with me.

Now, first off all, I'm a big fan of Epic and had been following it since the Cyclops saga (first version). I've been in love with many songs and hyperfixed it for months on end. But when the Vengeance saga came along, I didn't feel that same bubbling love rise in me.

Even as a fan, this isn't my first time having peeves with Epic. I didn't jam with the re-release sagas for a while, I'm underwhelmed with the Circe VS Odysseus fight and other issues, very unpopular opinion but "Monster" wasn't too impactful to me, and also the God Games (especially Zeus' attack).

The Vengeance Saga though? Well, they say we gotta do the Bun-Meat-Bun (or whatever the hell its name really is) technique when giving criticism, so I'll start with the good parts.

I love that Odysseus looked so done with Calypso in "Not Sorry For Loving You". They're basically this meme:

Like sorry you're a sad but you're still an abuser 😒

Then Odysseus starts singing the reprise for "Full Speed Ahead" but there's no one to back him up. That one hits me hard. To whoever on Tumblr said that after the Thunder Saga we will never hear the crew's back-up again and Odysseus' singing will be answered with silence, Apollo really blessed you with the red ball.

Hermes and the Winions' part was really cool too! I really like them being mischievous helper! The warning about the wind bag and the changing scene of Odysseus fighting off sea monsters while Hermes just vibing with the beats is 👌👌👌

But after that the hype started to sizzle out for me. You might want to skip this part if you're not comfortable with harsh criticism because I WON'T hold back.

It's really backward but I like the Odysseus VS Charybdis draft more than the final production. Charybdis' roars and music are somehow less intimidating, which is a shame because I thought this would be one of the biggest struggles Odysseus will face. Even with awesome illustrative animatics, the scene wasn't as thrilling as I've expected.

The other songs got massive improvement from its draft version (on top of my mind I can think of "Thunder Bringer", "There Are Other Ways", "Little Wolf"), but I don't get why "Charybdis" didn't get up-graded as much like them. It's like a cake that was throughly baked but half decorated and it just didn't taste as good as I've hoped.

Then we have the Odysseus VS Poseidon part in "Get In The Water" and "Six Hundred Strikes". The first thought I had for GITW is this song sounds like all the draft snippets were mashed together without a smooth transition/connection between them. Jorge and Steven's performance is great, but there's not enough tension for me to dread for Odysseus. When Poseidon first met Odysseus in "Ruthlessness", the whole opening was terrifyingly good! And we didn't even have any illustration animatic back then! (that's not to say the GITW animatics were bad, they just can't salvage much when the song itself was already weak)

I wasn't impressed with Poseidon's Shatter The Ocean move either. It's supposed to be the Strongest AttackTM but it's less scary than when he and the Laestrygonians destroyed Odysseus' eleven ships with probably 1% of their power. It didn't even help when Poseidon looked like he's having a seizure with lights pouring out of his eyes and mouth during the transformation.

Odysseus being literally on the brink of death with the souls of his loved ones pulling him into the abyss is a gem in the rough, but because we've seen Odysseus almost drowning before in the end of the Thunder Saga, it's not as shocking as it should be. Furthermore, Poseidon could have instant-killed Odysseus right then and there but didn't really annoyed me. But I guess he just wanted Odysseus to slowly suffer while dying.

Right when I thought the progress will get better, it... gets down. I can go with Odysseus using wind to escape the water, but him wearing it like a jetpack is so comical it ruined the drastic of the situation. And I'm officially let down when Odysseus FUCKING ATTACKED Poseidon in "Six Hundred Strike".

What? Just... why with that choice?

Look, I'm not gonna fault Epic for making creative liberties from the source material (as said in the disclaimer), but I will criticize if that change contradict itself in the transformative work. And this is one of them.

Poseidon and the gods have been proven time and time again in the musical just how powerful they are. Their ominous and grandiose entrances, them striking fear and inferiority in our hearts just by singing. Even Circe, a low-level goddess, poses a constant threat to the crew and Odysseus had to get help from Hermes just to get a chance to corner her (and Hermes even joked that he can still die!)

Poseidon easily destroyed almost all of Odysseus' fleet. Odysseus was very avoidant of him, opting to go to the literal Underworld to find instruction on how to dodge him and sailing through Scylla's lair + willing to sacrifice six men for safe passage. And when Poseidon said he can drown all of Ithaca, it's not just bluffing, he would and could have done that. Yeah, the King of the Sea is THAT BIG of a treat.

So no, Odysseus isn't cool to attack Poseidon, he's being stupid. I'm not even cheering for him the whole him he fight, just groaning at how ridiculous the whole thing is. If Epic is more believable and sticks to WHAT IT HAD ESTABLISHED BEFORE, having a sudden burst of anger and choosing ruthlessness won't save Odysseus from one swipe of Poseidon's trident. Odysseus stood no chance against a one of the most powerful deity, even if he's the protagonist and love his family.

Not only that, Poseidon didn't even defend himself and was wounded by a mere human! And he just sat there and took all the blows and insults from Odysseus??? And he actually begged Odysseus to stop and agree to quell the storm to let him get home??? I'm not buy that bullshit. I'm more upset that a literal Olympian god was nerfed down than Odysseus having a Gary Stu moment. Give me a break, that try-hard moment to be cool and edgy just show how badly written the scene is.

What's the fucking point of hyping up how dangerous the gods are if a human can take one down? Tell me this isn't some Wattpad-y Greek myth retelling fanfic where the teenage Y/N sass her way to defeat an entire pantheon. Epic really traded its opportunity to be better for some cheap and out-of-the-blue dramas in this saga, dare I say it's even worse than Zeus' OOC attack on Athena. I'm very disappointed with that decision.

On an end note, the saga did have one saving point with the "After everything you've done, how will you sleep at night?" - "Next to my wife" lines. Odysseus knew he could be the most horrendous man ever and Penelope would still choose his side, that just show how powerful their love and faith in each other are.

But not enough to excuse all the terrible cinematic choices.

[cliothemuse]

Hermes: Been twerking with his great grandson since 1500 BC

[botanicallyinclinednerd]

Something I adore is how when Odysseus is being held by the spirits of his dead friends and loved ones, being pulled down to the underworld, none of them say what Odysseus was imagining on that cliff. They don't say the things that have been haunting him. What they say can be seen as love and acceptance: "You can relax my friend. I can tell you're getting nervous." "Look at all we've lost and all we learned." "I'll stay in your heart." And the 600 men. They've been waiting. Waiting for him to get home, and waiting for him to join them. Well, he hasn't made it home yet. They can wait a little longer

[physicalhazards]

i’ve been waiting for this moment, for the perfect time to strike.

[babacontainsmultitudes]

Odysseus: ,':| If your plan's so great then why'd you wait to say it?

Hermes, who came prepared to put his whole pussy into this: Well it's a little bit dangerous my friend you'll need a mindset change for this you cannot get away with playing safe this you wanna go home put it a-all on the LI-IIINE~

Odysseus, who's trained his whole life for this, gonna use ruthlessness, and plans to put an end to all the foolishness:

[theaethernetconnection]

Oh I shall be replaying Hermes' reprise Dangerous on REPEAT

[hellishgayliath]

OH MY GODDDD VENGEANCE SAGA WAS SO GOOOOOODDDD!!!!! I WAS SO HYPED FOR IT TO COME OUT AND NOW IM VALIDATED FOR BEING HYPED THAT SHIT WAS STRAIGHT FIRE

[epicthemusicalstuff]

Ahhhh the theme is PERFECT

THANK YOU!!!!

[missdarhk]

odysseus in the vengence saga be like

[attemptedclassicist]

I need Not Sorry for Loving You injected in my blood I love this song so much

It got me like

Thank you so much Mr Jalapeño

[koifishhies]

Hot take: I didn’t like Not Sorry for Loving You. In the most respectful and constructive way ever to mr Jorge, I hated how it was framed as “unrequited love, wrong place wrong time, I love you but not the same way you love me.”

Like… am I going nuts? She kidnapped and sexually assaulted him. Love in Paradise made that perfectly clear, so why are we making such a sudden narrative shift now?

Don’t get me wrong what Calypso was saying was perfectly in character, even if it was wrong of her. But I feel like instead of framing it as such, the narrative excuses it and tries to make us feel bad for her by leaving her uncontested.

I had thoughts on the Circe situation too, but with that one Jorge altered the actual events of the story for his narrative. Unlike the book Ody denied her full stop and they DIDN’T stay with her for a year, so a friendly goodbye and positive light for Circe was appropriate.

But with Calypso, it WAS set up as literal kidnapping… but not addressed as such in the end? Was it just because it was rushed? Or does it not feel as serious because he’s a man?

And ftr; I know it’s greek mythology and SA isn’t exactly uncommon. But this is a modern retelling, and something about the whole situation being brushed off this way doesn’t sit right with me. It’s like when wattpad stories and booktok try to make really abusive men sexy, but with the genders reversed.

I’m not trying to make this a big thing (definitely not cancellable, so don’t go doing that, good lord). And I’m not saying fiction has to be perfect and unproblematic. I just think if you’re gonna start off framing it as abuse, finish it that way. You’ve set that standard for yourself, now give the subject its due diligence. Yknow?

[silenzioperso]

Holy shit, Ody literally torturing a fucking God just to get back to his wife!!!