#I know people compare it to other ships but they aren't the same; they have their own dynamic - they're not bound by the same template

[danwhobrowses]

My dear Critters and Callowmoores, Divergence has had its beautiful ending and thus, only the Wrap Up Party remains. The Wrap Up will officially close the book on Campaign 3 as a whole and frankly, I'm still not ready for it. If I'm honest, a lot of that unreadiness is from being nervous, because it's the last chance until the next one shot of Bell's Hells - whenever that'll be - for there to be catharsis for my beloved ship, Callowmoore.

Now, I'm not foolish enough to expect that a question or a discussion about it is guaranteed to show up - even if I do pluck up the courage to submit a question myself - and I'm not parasocially demanding that it's owed to us to be brought up either. I'm just hoping it will, but in this case 'hope' is less in the context of being confident and more in the context of being wishful - especially since even if a question is asked the answer can still risk being unsatisfying.

In the month since the finale my feelings about the ship's vague outcome hasn't really gotten better, I think LaterKaterSays said it best in their post about how we didn't get that 'shiny golden ending' - that feeling of vindication that proves that our support was not for naught, that it's real and intended and will serve as a comfort to get through the days after C3's end - but it was a little more than just that which left me a little forlorn. The finale already had us go through a lot; we had to endure Ashton dying - after it felt like everyone was finally safe - with a visibly distraught Fearne being their last embrace before their sacrifice, and then when they fell from the sky we watched Matt decide that a Nat 20 and a +1 Gust assist from Orym isn't enough for Shoebill!Fearne to catch Ashton like she wanted (but enough for Chetney at the same speed to push through a crowd and get underneath them for the Banish) and her desperate demand that the Kryn give her a beacon - all while holding Ashton's lifeless body in her arms - is brushed off without even a potential roll to try and sway the Bright Queen. Then, after Ashton comes back to life, after both of them become visibly altered in the aftermath of the god matter, and after all the other Hells and side characters get their time for their own stuff, we finally get back around to them and their last interaction's resolution is left up in the air. Every other ship gets to run, fly, and gallop off into the sunset - and I am truly happy for them, don't mistake this as me saying that they don't deserve it - and we're just left waiting, wanting, and wishing we could join them.

And then the next week is Valentine's Day.

One of the main times of the year in every fandom for a ship tag to flourish with art, writing, and overall positive content, and ours just, doesn't, not to the same extent. It feels like we're all holding our breath, holding our headcanons and creative ideas close out of fear that we'll curse or jinx it by letting it out. And I know Tal and Ashley - who I still admire greatly - didn't intend for this to be the reaction, but I think a lot of us riding into the finale were feeling hopeful, in the confident context, that things would work out and our patience would be rewarded, but then over 9 hours later, it wasn't; instead we're left reeling by a series of gut punches, nearly moments, and vagueness at the end of the tunnel.

I know that not everyone sees it this way, and there are those who are simply content or are able to lean on their other, more beloved ships for comfort - which, again, is not in any shape or form a problem or a slight if you do - but for me personally, I don't have that. This IS my number one CR ship, this is my comfort ship, and I know I made a post after the finale saying that we shouldn't sink into despair - and I do still mean every word - but as a result, this last month has been kinda rough on me emotionally. For someone who has used tumblr to do reviews and critiques, when it comes to my personal feelings I really do hate complaining - people are facing far worse problems and have far more legitimate reasons to be upset than I do after all - but I can't deny that since the finale I've felt less motivated for pretty much anything, everything just feels a little less than it used to - like a fire in me has been dimmed - and I keep looping back in my mind fearing that I missed something to explain why we didn't get the moment we wanted and could just live in forever, and I don't find it; every time I think back to their moments together I can't see anything less than the fact that these two characters love each other, that they understand each other on a level no-one else does, and, as they've already admitted to each other, they have the best time of their lives when they're together.

I know we each have our perspectives on where things go from here, and what suits them best, and yes, infinite possibilities does have its merits in this regard, but those possibilities also include bad ones that I could do without intrusively crossing my mind; I don't like fearing that Fearne will put off thinking about it, or that she won't be honest about her feelings and decides to settle for less, I also don't like feeling like this is the nervous energy we'll have to carry with us until whenever we see them next. Granted, if we do end up having to wait until the currently-unconfirmed reunion one shot with this uncertainty I Will Wait, you best believe that I will wait, but obviously I don't want to - nobody likes being persistently anxious after all, especially in places of comfort, and we've already waited a long time as it is.

If a question does get asked about it or the matter is brought up by the cast, I think all that those like me really need is assurance. Confirmation that Yes, Fearne thought about it and she didn't change her mind - that would honestly be enough. It still means the possibilities are endless, but they'll all be good possibilities that feed and encourage us to create and gush and flourish without the shadow of doubt. I have absolutely no right to ask, because in the end it's not about me, but I don't think that's asking for much; it's, after all, nothing as elaborate as retconning a hag pact that promised eternal service, or something as fantastical as bringing mortality back to an undead PC, much less doing it twice. But for those wondering what I am wishful for, that is it: that's all that I wish to get from the wrap up and that's all that I'm hoping for, and on Friday morning when I get to check it out before -and likely during - the start of my shift, I hope with all my heart that this wish will have come true.

[sir-myst-cake]

First post on here and it's a rant!! If you want more cool takes you should totally follow me as I'll be posting here more often and have totally cool art to share‼️‼️

I'm not completely sure how to tag this? I'm talking about the ships in a positive light so I think it's okay, and besides, I want lots of peeps to see it, I'm aware I probably won't change many people's minds at all, but it's okay lol, I just want Anti's to see they genuinely have a nothing burger and need to leave people alone.

This is a mostly TikTok only problem regarding Beast x Ancient's (thank god) but I've seen my fair share elsewhere like on here. So lemme counter every argument I've seen so far cause you got a lot of time on your hands to be telling people to off themselves over Cookie ships 😭 put that hate into people who actually deserve it.

BILLFORD COMPARISON

Regarding ShadowVanilla specifically, people have compared the ship a lot from both sides, but what really got me is what I've seen here:

"Shadow Milk Cookie is way worse than Bill! He drove Pure Vanilla to insanity! He tortured him!"- This is in regards to how people bring up the fact Anti's are fine with one thing but not the other when it's basically the same thing they're against. Psychological, physical, mental, and emotional torture. I'll be honest I haven't watched Gravity Falls whatsoever, but my friend has, and from what she says, yeah Bill is the definition of a cruel and unusual punishment. He's done some crazy things, absolutely heinous, might even be a little worse than Shadow Milk or on the same level, either way though-

You can't like one thing and then not the other, it's different flavors of the same thing, it's hypocritical. Either you hate them both or you hate neither.

"Those are 2 different fandoms!"- Doesn't matter, it's the same thing, just different media, it's not different whatsoever aside from the universe, there's much torture involved on both ends.

ABUSER X VICTIM

This one I've seen A LOT and I'm just ??

"If you ship Beast x Ancient's you support Abuser x victim btw"- That's a STRETCH. You are reaching FAR. Nobody is romanticizing the abuse, nobody is normalizing it, it's stuff that happened in canon and we acknowledge it but nobody is doing any of that other stuff. I'm not condoning anyone in real life to do that shit lol. It's called exploring, they have an interesting dynamic, romantic or platonic, two sides of the same coin. You can say the same thing about horror movies, they put a lot of disturbing stuff in there. Do the movie producers CONDONE any of that stuff? Obviously not. Goes for Devsisters too, they don't condone body mutilation yet they still made Burning Spice rip off Cheese's wings.

But even so, for the people who DO like it for the angst, I won't say fiction doesn't affect reality because it does in many cases, but this isn't one of them. Not every relationship is going to be peachy and perfect, just like in real life. I can give an example on this one too actually.

GoldenLily, they aren't condoning what Lily (technically) did to Golden Cheese's kingdom, but they like it for all the potential, complicated feelings and emotions that come along with it.

Also, that's basically the same thing with Beasts x Ancients, just turn it around to enemies to lovers.

"This isn't Villain x hero, this is abuser x victim"- Are you saying MOST of media is abuser x victim then? This is in fact a typical hero x Villain trope, it's nothing new. Respectfully, you guys freak out when a Villain does villain stuff, I'd be surprised if there was a villain who DIDN'T cause any trauma for the opposing party. But according to this logic, media is just dead, no more fanfiction, no more what ifs, no more content since it's all apparently problematic and not canon. Even if somebody switches stuff up in an AU, and makes things completely fluffy, that's apparently still not enough.

"oh you had to make an AU to ship them because you know it's toxic"- No, it's just playing around with scenarios. Learn to separate fanon from canon. This specifically goes for the redeemed AU's I see of the Beasts, people still complain, they act as if people can't change. One of the biggest examples I have of that is FlutterCord, Discord did plenty of messed up things, but in the end, he still managed to change. You'll still get burned at the stake for it though.

"You must be an abuser yourself to condone this!!"- Extremely disrespectful and a WILDDD take. Need I say more??

"I ship Beast x Beast rather than Beast x Ancient's"- According to your logic, the Beasts are abusers right? And if we followed the same story, they are not mentally well whatsoever. You'd rather ship 2 dangerously mentally unstable characters together who'd just make each other worse? Destroy each other? Fuck each other up beyond belief? It doesn't make sense does it, nor is it fair for y'all to praise these ships but hate on the others. You like watching the cookies crumble huh 😭

CANON

"The ship isn't canon!"- We know that, everyone should know that. With what I said earlier, please learn to separate fanon from canon. That's what a fandom is, we do non-canon stuff, it's very fun, you should try it.

"It's a Proship/Dark ship!"- Going the canon route, Beasts are Eons old, Ancients are thousands of years old. Big gap yes, but nonetheless all of them are old as fuck. Older than bloodlines. Treating the Ancients as if they aren't grown adults. You're intentionally trying to make it weird. Stop calling ships you don't like proships please.

Also a little off topic but please don't listen to everyone you interact with on TikTok?? I remember one time I was scrolling through a comment section and saw somebody say "Doesn't Mystic Flour Cookie hate Burning Spice Cookie?" On a MysticSpice vid, looked in the replies, somebody asked for proof/where it was implied, and they didn't answer 💀 just blatantly spreading misinformation. Sources around you are way more reliable than people who don't back up their claims.

CONCLUSION

Even despite all this, you still have the right to feel how you wanna feel. Just please stop harassing people for simple stuff like this, in all honesty, I feel like it's more about seeing one of your favorite characters shipped with somebody who hurt them in canon that makes peeps upset. Which I can totally understand because I used to be exactly like that, I LIVEEEE for Dark Cacao Cookie, when Mystic Flour's update came out, I wanted her dead. Quite literally blocked someone because I couldn't stand seeing their MysticCao art. Hated what she did to my baby boy fr.

But then It started growing on me, over time, I just realized it was never that serious.

Even so, notice how I still didn't go out of my way to harass said person about it because I specifically didn't like it? It really is that easy. Block and go about your day.

I also suspect this because of stuff like this 💀

Love that person who replied, but it's not that hard y'all. We all can in fact, get along.

ANYWAYSSSS thanks to those who took the time read, I love you my pookies hope you have a good day or night💕💕

[mari-lair]

hello ! i love your fics and analysis! I was wondering which tbhk ships you think will become endgame?

Anon I have the most white bread of answers but since you asked-

1 - Hananene.

Nene starts the manga by wanting a date. It doesn't matter with who, any hot guy will do. She has many infatuations but isn't in love with anyone, she just want to be loved.

Nene has a lot of small character developments in different areas throughout the manga, but her strongest and most consistent change is her increasing love for Hanako and her acceptance of it.

She is still a girl with a ton of emotions, and she finds hot people attractive BUT now she want Hanako and only Hanako. She rejects everyone she used to have a crush on, there is no doki doki's when she gets the attention of pretty people cause they aren't the boys she wants attention from anymore.

Even Teru doesn't compare to Hanako. She went on a 'date' with him and felt more excited about bragging than the actual 'date'

AND SHE DID NOT BRAG when hanako got back, she just wanted to enjoy that he's back.

I don't even know why I am going so in dept on the couple stablished since chapter 1 but since i'm already rambling: Despite everything crazy going on in the festival NENE'S BIGGEST FOCUS WAS TO CONFESS TO HANAKO. That's something she thinks more about than her own death, like girl- Hanako is her whole world. She will not get a romance with another person.

There is the question of "Will Nene survive?"

If she doesn't, she'll disappear and have no boyfriend but I bet she'll be thinking about Hanako in her death. If she finds a way to become a supernatural in a very wild narrative choice she will be able to stay with hanako in their cursed eternity forever.

In the case she lives and Hanako gets exorcised she won't move on. Aidairo loves tragedies and obsessive love, so I can't see her approaching crushes with the same whimsy after her love dies. And Aidairo would likely preffer to make her suffer in her grief and longing than give her a rebound with some random guy, cause it sure won't be Kou.

2 - Mitsukou

My personal preferences aside, it is clear they are written to have romantic implications. Kou will either die with Mitsuba (As shown in the new timeline), and stay with him in death.

Or live to have an intense homoerotic 'friendship' with him.

He legit can't get mitsuba off his head, he thinks about him more than anything during the manga and he has A LOT of problems to think about.

I can't personally picture an explicit confession but we had a lot of equivalents already. It would be weird for Aidairo to send them to the aquarium, make Kou obsessed with mitsuba (and vise verse), show that they are 'very very close' in this new timeline, keep drawing them star-struck by each other and so on without romance in the head.

Kou is also never able to put his feelings into words, like, bro that's suspicious as hell.

They always get matching art with all the couples in Aidairo's twitter arts too.

That's not queerbaiting, they may not be explicit but by the lord they are not subtle at all, there is never a single "oh Mitsuba is like a brother to me" moment, they don't undo any of the gay implications we see, they double down on it.

Kou may be bi but it sure isn't the Nene route that Aidairo is playing.

3 - Aoikane

Akane has loved Aoi since he was a little kid. Waaaaaaay before he got a clock keeper contract.

He saw that Aoi cared so much about his opinion that she'd break out of her cold persona and burst into tears at the idea of being hated, and he locked in for life.

They are the codependent childhood friends troupe, the "I know you better than anyone" troupe, the "you are a part of my life I can't live without" troupe and they both love each other from the very start of the manga, not showing romantic interest in anyone else.

Nothing has made Akane change his mind about being with Aoi. Not being stabbed, not being rejected many times, not facing how bad aoi is at deling with her issues head on. He'll do anything for her time and time again.

in Akane's own words:

They had many build ups and a whole arc dedicated to their developments with each other (which is a lot considering they aren't main characters and Aoi usually get no focus in this manga.)

Narratively, it wouldn't make any sense to dedicate so many chapters pointing out how much they mean to each other and slowly working through their issues only to slap another ship at the end.

And is not like Aidairo said "They had their arc let's never talk about them again!", the author went out of her way to say "Even in a world where Aoi is in an arranged marriage, she still loves Akane"

They aren't subtle.

From the matching names, to the way they both crumble when they are separated from one another and keep thinking about marriage, they are very devoted. They have already explicitly confessed to the audience that they are in love with each other.

They'll either stay together forever or they'll die together.

[theoddest1]

Hey, isn't it so..."Great" that Viv is out here liking posts that clearly find moments where Angel is being sexual with his rapist "Hot" How much more telling can this all get, right? We really sit here, having to explain how fucked up it is to take SA, try to tackle it "seriously" but then proceed to not even do it for that reason. Only for it to be for angst and goon material. How do you expect me to SIT HERE and take whatever Viv has to offer seriously? The number of people I have seen trying to justify this gross behavior is abysmal. If you have this kink or whatever, fine not like I can stop you, be into that shit somewhere else, but DO NOT try and TACKLE IT only for it to be not even seen as serious or as a way for you to get off to your sick fantasies.

Why the hell would you like this? "Angel with his abusive rapist boss😝, so hot guys! Can'tstop thinking about it!"

What good reason would Viv have in liking this post? Why do over 4k people find a post like this neat? "Oh they're fictional, it's gucci, stop bitching" wouldn't need to bitch if people didn't outright sexualize moments meant to tackle an irl fucking problem.

By the way, this person ships Angel and Valentino together. Their pinned tweet is legit sexual Val and Angel art. I wouldn't recommend attacking them regardless if you disagree with their ships and what they deem...ugh "hot."

Fair warning to I WILL be showing some of their arts and reblogs as evidence, so if you are not into that sort of thing (anything NSFW), I highly recommend scrolling past my post or past this section of it.

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I'm pretty sure Viv actively searches for this sort of thing on Twitter, like it's PAINFULLY obvious that she does. How you just so happen to like a post clear af lusting for this abusive relationship YOU CLAIMED to take seriously that ALSO happens to be from an account that ships the abuser with the victim? Gtfo with your two-faced shit, just say your find this hot instead of lying your absolute ass off. The audacity for some fans to go after one group of people for liking questionable stuff only to let other questionable things slide. Like homie, you can let rape slide, but draw the line for any other questionable thing? How's about you have that energy for EVERYTHING with your hypocritical asses. Ion wanna hear y'all stank ass make callouts if you're okay with a rapist being shipped with someone he actively harms in various ways.

And Viv

You say this entire sequence is meant to be uncomfortable, meant to not sugar-coat how awful this situation is, and supposedly have people who are victims/survivors themselves, yet here you are liking posts from people who do anything but take it seriously and even sexualize it. That's absolutely insane to me. And reminds me how you were drooling over some pins that glamorize the abuse Angel and supposedly Husk goes through, you know, the same character that COMPARED his abuse with Angel's.

Ah yes, let's downplay how horrible Angel's situation is further, shall we? Let's especially do it after adamantly arguing with other SA survivors who "haven't seen the episode yet" and need to shut up or don't watch 😃. Let's ignore the fact that Husk and Angel's situations STILL aren't comparable but it's still very odd to have pins on TWO situations taken seriously in the show. So do you actually view the situations seriously or not Viv???

God she's....actually fucking stupid and horrid.

[sweaterkittensahoy]

Stop misappropriating the abuse and trauma cults use through purity culture for your stupid fucking shipping discourse? Holy fuck no wonder everyone hates this whole discourse.

Since when is "priests getting shuffled around after raping kids and kids being told they're sinful because they had bodily reactions to being SAd" comparable to "Bobo the clown said my ship was cringe"

I'm not gonna answer this with The Aristocrats, as a I threatened, because I want to make a very serious point to this anon:

Purity culture isn't just religious abuse. It is most widely connected to religious abuse. Including actions in the Catholic Church and all fundamentalist Christianity. It's entire existence is about terrifying and indoctrinating people into being fearful of their own actions and bodies so that they feel certain that moving out from the "umbrella of safety" (to use a fundamentalist term) will result in them being harmed in ways they can't imagine. This is generally happening at the same time as they are being harmed by those who are supposed to be keeping them safe from all those terrible, worldly evils. Like speaking up when you're being abused. Believing you are not responsible for the actions of a rapist, and many, many other things that any person with an ounce of self-worth and good sense (two things not allowed in fundamentalist circles) knows are true in abuse situations.

But the point of the purity culture as identity in the above-mentioned circles is to teach people from birth that they aren't to have their own feelings, ideas, or instincts. They are only to follow the feelings, ideas, and instincts on the approved list in order to stay within the structures they know and feel safe in even as they feel very unsafe.

That being said:

Purity culture can also exist WITHOUT a religious structure while still being about controlling the thoughts, feelings, and actions of everyone within it. In terms of fandom, purity culture is groups of people stating that if you write something uncomfortable or gross or immoral, then YOU must be uncomfortable or gross or immoral and therefore, not worthy of the safety and moral superiority of the group.

Purity culture without religion teaches black and white thinking, encourages thought policing, and shames anyone who steps outside of a very narrow definition of good and bad by turning an entire group of people against them for being "bad".

Just like in religious circles.

Just like in the cult of fundamentalism.

Purity culture is a term taken by fundamentalists and turned into a whole way of life because the goal of fundamentalism is to make people too scared to leave. Purity culture in fandom does the same thing. It uses fear and threats of abandonment/harassment to control the way people act because a group of people decided they didn't like something, so they must try and wipe it out rather than simply ignore it.

I am not mis-using the term because "Bobo the clown said my ship was cringe." My use of the term is intentional and precise because what is happening in fandom spaces now is non-religious purity culture cult thinking. My use of the term does not invalidate or water down the use of it in conversations about religious abuse and trauma. With or without religion, purity culture is a dangerous cult of "us vs them" that is built to demoralize and eradicate those deemed unworthy.

[thef1oscpen]

Why F1 is gay AF:

—Full disclosure, I have limited knowledge about old F1 (F1 is hella old, but I'm talking Senna and Prost era, Schumacher era etc.). Also, everything on this list is nonsensical and/or jokes (mostly F1 RPF ship jokes). I can already tell no one is going to read this and if you do, it's gonna be unfunny AF (so I'm sorry?)—

It's a bit long so it's all under the cut if u wanna read it 🫡

- The circuits are closed i.e. not straight i.e. gay (you heard it here first. The circuits are gay!)

- Brocedes (childhood friends to teammates to rivals to acquaintances (?). Like, they provided the plot, the fans wrote it. They broke a bed by wrestling on it? Pfft.)

- F1 RPF ship names and duo names are the same (confused me when I was still a new fan. Yeah so basically, the drivers and the teams use these duo names to refer to specific duos, mostly the two drivers of a team. So there is a venn diagram to be made for Thai BL actor ships that's also fanservice and F1 Driver teammate duos that also have a lot of fanservice)

- Galex (I mean, are you really best friends if there aren't rumours that you're gay for each other and your partner knows how obsessed you are with your best friend?)

- Spraying each other with champagne on the podium (I don't think I need to explain this.)

- Max "my car is a boy" Verstappen (Grindr mention, just the way he is around one Daniel Ricciardo, getting picked up by men - probably the most picked up man on the grid rn, saying "there's nothing wrong with that" when him and Danny almost accident kissed when they hugged in front of the camera, and the countless other gay jokes he's made at his own expense. I wouldn't be surprised if one day after he's retired, he's straight up asked by someone if he's into men and he just says "probably" and doesn't explain further)

- The Carlos Effect™️ (Have you seen the way men look at him?)

- Charles Leclerc being the reason for most male motorsport fans' sexual awakening (I have no stats but I know I'm right.)

- Charlos (married behaviour frfr. So much chemistry that it feels illegal. Some of the stuff they shot together made people feel like they were watching something they shouldn't be and they made fans feel like children of divorce after Carlos got replaced last year.)

- The McTwinks (PR mandated yaoi aside, they're probably gonna become one of the longest standing teammate duos in F1 next year. Oscar's fanboy past aside, why does bro look at Lando like he hung the moon or something? Biggest Lando supporter frfr. Too bad he's his rival or else he'd be busting out his Lando merch.)

- Lestappen (childhood rivals to friends. Ngl, probably the least gay duo on this list. Charles just has perpetual heart eyes so he's always looking at men like they've stolen his heart and mind. They're very loser4loser coded which is fascinating because they're two of the most talented drivers on the grid rn. These two probably understand each other's driving style the most as compared to the other drivers - mostly because it's kinda similar.... anyway, that's kinda gay.)

- Wet tyres and Soft tyres and Hard tyres (need I say more?)

That's all I got. If you read all this, thank you so very much. And feel free to add on to this list 🫡

[olderthannetfic]

/olderthannetfic/769334704445997057/another-fandometrics-year-in-review-another-bevy

I am - genuinely - very sympathetic to the frustrations of solely f/f shippers and I DO think some people are a little too quick to shrug off the lack of f/f in fandom spaces with “lack of representation in media what can you do” when fandom is all about assigning personalities and backstories to one-line characters. HOWEVER. As someone who likes all kinds of ships, the experiences I have had across many MANY fandoms with solely f/f shippers treating people who also liked the main m/m ship as traitors and bad feminists, not to mention the number of people who have told me, a trans man, that I HAVE to write more f/f and less m/m For The Sisterhood, has made me LESS likely to engage in f/f, not more. Some of y’all are your own worst enemy when it comes to this stuff I swear. (Hashtag not all femslashers, hashtag some of my best friends are femslashers, etc)

--

Demands that people defend and explain perfectly commonplace things always end up generating dumber and dumber explanations.

I agree that that explanation by itself is kind of weak, but "Why are you asking only about AO3?" (as people often are) plus representation problems plus the other commonly cited reasons add up to a perfectly sufficient explanation. People just don't like what they're hearing.

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The kind of f/f fandom people are often looking for—a by cis wlw, for cis wlw one—is not that different in size from the by cis mlm, for cis mlm one. They are both small.

Yes, I know they pretend that's not what they mean. They are lying. Possibly to themselves. Just look at the bawwwwing over the idea that cis men liking f/f could add to the amount of f/f art or the audience for the same.

Many AO3 slashers are better compared to transbian catgirls making lesbian furry porn or cis dudes horny for Buffy/Faith or something. There are plenty of people who care about f/f. They're just not necessarily the ~right~ people in the right spaces making the right art to count in some wanker's statistics.

Part of the reason our explanations and discussions always sound so bonkers is that we constantly compare apples to oranges.

--

And while we're at it, let's talk about that hoary old ~one-line character~ thing.

The reality is that we like to talk about how we elevate random walk-on characters, but the vast majority of shippy AO3 fanfic is about fairly major characters. Clint/Coulson was bizarrely popular in 2012. It has been twelve years. It is time to get over it.

On top of most things focusing on leads, the focus is often on characters who are given a lot of interiority. The audience is invited to be in their head and care about their feelings. People aren't usually good at analyzing film, so they use more familiar metrics involving text: how many lines do they have in the script? How many minutes does that translate to on screen? They don't know how to quantify a character being treated as an object to be looked at beyond "Booty shorts bad". But it's not general sex appeal or amount of skin on display that matters here.

As audiences, we respond to film grammar and "Just happen to like" or not like some character as a result of it, but we aren't aware of the mechanics, so we can't explain why beyond vague spluttering and "How dare you! Everyone should think this because it's the natural response!"

In general, media with multiple central women who have intense relationships with each other and who are conventionally attractive generate plenty of interest in f/f. Media with one hot girl who has the camera trained on her ass all the time while the men do everything interesting usually don't.

It's a no brainer and the harebrained explanations come from trying to look deeper to find the secret conspiracy where there is none.

--

The biggest mistake of most of this dumb discourse is "But I see all these queer women here. Why isn't there more f/f?"

This presupposes some default "normal" level of f/f without any actual justification for why that would be expected. You see the same nonsense from people going "Why is there so much m/m?"

What's the default? 10% because of the fake statistic that 10% of people are gay? 75% because action movies are sausagefests and all the important relationships are between men? What's the "normal" level of femslash? 25% because f/f, f/m, m/m, and gen are all equally valid? 80% because lots of fanfic writers are women?

Chasing one precise number is a fool's errand, but building a whole theory on the idea that there's an implicit number without even digging into that assumption is more foolish still.

When you look at the fanfic (or art!) spaces that are full of dudes, they often look like a bit of a mirror of AO3. Lots of het still. Lots of f/f. Lots of lady blorbos people are obsessed with. Limited m/m. Depending on the space, there might be a lot more gen. It's not perfectly 1:1, but then AO3 isn't precisely like other chick-heavy fanfic spaces anyway.

--

In my experience, the thing that makes a blorbo take off is that they're fairly major in canon, often driving the narrative even if they aren't the main protagonist, and they show up early.

In the cases where they weren't there at the very beginning, them showing up was the catalyst for fans who like this type of character to get into the canon at all. It's not just Castiel: you see it with Methos from Highlander and plenty of others. It's usually in a context where that fandom didn't have that much established for this type of fan. There wasn't a second dude to pair the lead with or the ship turned some people off or something. Highlander, for example, had fucktons of het shippers, both of canon het and of various OFCs and canon dudes. It was the slashers who stampeded over there when friends told them there was new ship potential for m/m. SPN... Sam/Dean was very popular on LJ, but I think it's obvious why a viable non-brother ship was of interest to people. I watched tons of people get pimped into Teen Wolf for Sterek. Of course they ended up liking it and not really caring about other ships: they were pre-selected to like that specific vibe. (And they are all wrong because Scott is the best and Derek has weird teeth.) The same thing happens with f/f. People get into media all the time because they're promised such-and-such a ship dynamic.

Wynonna Earp had plenty of people who were there for the women because the women are who matter for the most part. People were super into the canon f/f because it's hot and because it didn't seem like they were just going to get hit by a bus and shooed out of the narrative.

How many things that everybody and their sister saw have that many main women who matter? Some, definitely, but they're outnumbered by the sausagefests and by the things with very central het. Not everything with a huge audience gets a big fanfic fandom, but most things with big fanfic fandoms do have a big audience. You need critical mass to make a fandom happen.

Something like MCU has a variety of tasty shipping options, but the characters it spent all its time on first were the small selection of guys fandom cares the most about. When other characters were established very early, they also had an early spurt of fandom. I can't be the only one who remembers Pepperony fandom on LJ. It wasn't just people tagging canon ships in the background: Pepper/Tony shippers were a whole thing.

Yes, there are exceptions, but we make a big deal of them while ignoring the overall pattern.

Again, it is time to get over Clint/Coulson, Arthur/Eames, and people hallucinating that Hux had a personality in that first movie.

These are rare exceptions, and they're all snark-based at that. Darcy Lewis was also obnoxiously popular based solely on a few lines of snark, but that didn't count because she wasn't the correct and virtuous choice of favorite female character.

(Seriously, you should have seen the whining about all the people horny for Darcy who didn't give a fuck about boring Jane. Sorry, but your blorbo is a snooze and mine has amazing tits in addition to being funny.)

--

Let's go look at what's big on AO3 since it's easy and that's what other lazy statistics compilers do and then base their whining on:

Looking at the M/M tag, here's the sidebar:

Castiel/Dean Winchester (111856)

Draco Malfoy/Harry Potter (70823)

Derek Hale/Stiles Stilinski (70134)

Sherlock Holmes/John Watson (67796)

James "Bucky" Barnes/Steve Rogers (61397)

Aziraphale/Crowley (Good Omens) (56548)

Minor or Background Relationship(s) (55109)

Sirius Black/Remus Lupin (49179)

Bakugou Katsuki/Midoriya Izuku (46679)

Steve Rogers/Tony Stark (44754)

I'm seeing canons with huge audiences. Teen Wolf and SPN are way more popular in fanfic fandom, relatively speaking, but they're certainly not obscure media.

I'm seeing a lot of leads. Sirius/Remus does stand out a little: they aren't walk-ons, but fanon did elevate them. Same with Draco, but main protagonist/most obvious nemesis is hardly a surprising ship type.

Let's play with exclude filters and see what's next (numbers won't be exact since this is via excluding the previous batches):

Harry Styles/Louis Tomlinson (43234)

Lan Zhan | Lan Wangji/Wei Ying | Wei Wuxian (40115)

Jeon Jungkook/Kim Taehyung | V (38398)

Keith/Lance (Voltron) (32757)

Dazai Osamu/Nakahara Chuuya (Bungou Stray Dogs) (32744)

Dean Winchester/Sam Winchester (31834)

Evan "Buck" Buckley/Eddie Diaz (9-1-1 TV) (31527)

Merlin/Arthur Pendragon (Merlin) (31011)

Will Graham/Hannibal Lecter (30819)

Magnus Bane/Alec Lightwood (30133)

Steve Harrington/Eddie Munson (27403)

Original Male Character/Original Male Character (26854)

Bakugou Katsuki/Kirishima Eijirou (26854)

Jeon Jungkook/Park Jimin (26454)

Katsuki Yuuri/Victor Nikiforov (26453)

Clay | Dream/GeorgeNotFound (Video Blogging RPF) (21154)

Geralt z Rivii | Geralt of Rivia/Jaskier | Dandelion (20946)

James T. Kirk/Spock (20716)

Min Yoongi | Suga/Park Jimin (20561)

Blackbeard | Edward Teach/Stede Bonnet (20113)

Iwaizumi Hajime/Oikawa Tooru (20039)

Hinata Shouyou/Kageyama Tobio (18806)

Blaine Anderson/Kurt Hummel (18013)

Erik Lehnsherr/Charles Xavier (17577)

Dan Howell/Phil Lester (17518)

Levi Ackerman/Eren Yeager (17404)

Han Jisung | Han/Lee Minho | Lee Know (17390)

Akaashi Keiji/Bokuto Koutarou (17141)

Tartaglia | Childe/Zhongli (Genshin Impact) (17041)

Harry Potter/Severus Snape (16773)

Oh look: more leads.

Sure, there are some little oddities, like the fact that taekook is obviously the worst BTS ship and it is a personal attack on me that it is that popular. But come the fuck on: this is a parade of some of the most famous musicians and most popular anime, shows that had huge audiences and particularly huge audiences of the type that like fanfic.

Let's have a look at f/m:

Adrien Agreste | Chat Noir/Marinette Dupain-Cheng | Ladybug (33773)

Hermione Granger/Draco Malfoy (33031)

Original Female Character(s)/Original Male Character(s) (29586)

Rey/Ben Solo | Kylo Ren (24192)

Minor or Background Relationship(s) (21606)

James Potter/Lily Evans Potter (21088)

Kylo Ren/Rey (16028)

James "Bucky" Barnes/Reader (15922)

Hermione Granger/Ron Weasley (15635)

Sirius Black/Remus Lupin (15335)

Pepper Potts/Tony Stark (14552)

Fox Mulder/Dana Scully (14214)

Bellamy Blake/Clarke Griffin (13616)

Annabeth Chase/Percy Jackson (11471)

Oliver Queen/Felicity Smoak (11383)

Captain Hook | Killian Jones/Emma Swan (11272)

Castiel/Dean Winchester (11187)

Other Relationship Tags to Be Added (10529)

Clint Barton/Natasha Romanov (9750)

Original Character(s)/Original Character(s) (9736)

Okay, it is AO3 after all, so some m/m ships have snuck in there, but the general trend is still leads, leads, leads, now with some readerfic. (For James/Lily, you can blame the insanity that is Marauders fandom on TikTok, or so I hear.)

And f/f:

Kara Danvers/Lena Luthor (21520)

Original Female Character(s)/Original Female Character(s) (17873)

Evil Queen | Regina Mills/Emma Swan (16168)

Minor or Background Relationship(s) (13681)

Clarke Griffin/Lexa (12876)

Adora/Catra (She-Ra) (11532)

Amity Blight/Luz Noceda (10880)

Sirius Black/Remus Lupin (10532)

Caitlyn/Vi (League of Legends) (8925)

Blake Belladonna/Yang Xiao Long (7766)

Robin Buckley/Nancy Wheeler (7369)

Korra/Asami Sato (7146)

Wednesday Addams/Enid Sinclair (6720)

Other Relationship Tags to Be Added (6684)

Waverly Earp/Nicole Haught (5764)

Original Character(s)/Original Character(s) (5529)

Chloe Beale/Beca Mitchell (5347)

Laura Hollis/Carmilla Karnstein (4895)

Jirou Kyouka/Yaoyorozu Momo (4662)

Charlie Magne | Morningstar/Vaggie (4402)

Thirteenth Doctor/Yasmin Khan (4284)

Alex Danvers/Maggie Sawyer (4223)

Rose Lalonde/Kanaya Maryam (3936)

Eve Polastri/Villanelle | Oksana Astankova (3876)

Maya Bishop/Carina DeLuca (3700)

Sister Beatrice/Ava Silva (3689)

Castiel/Dean Winchester (3664)

Maxine "Max" Caulfield/Chloe Price (3471)

Miranda Priestly/Andrea Sachs (3394)

Ruby Rose/Weiss Schnee (3324)

Carmilla might be a little obscure compared to some media, and some other ships have snuck in here, but again, we're seeing some fairly prominent canons and the leads or at least main cast who have intense relationships in those canons. If most fantasy tv shows were Once Upon a Time, all of AO3 might be awash in nothing but swanqueen and captainswan.

The big thing that one sees is simply that f/f fandom often revolves around different media, while m/m and f/m are more likely to be into the same stuff that's full, full, full of main dudes getting to do things with one woman who matters.

We do not, in general, elevate anybody.

Not unless some very talented writer leads the way first with a juicy longfic that establishes all the fanon.

We repeat the myth that we do because it suits a certain narrative about how creative and transformative fandom is—and another equally popular narrative about how the lack of ship A/B is a ~conspiracy~ to rob one of one's rightful overflowing feed trough of fic.

It's bullshit.

We write about leads.

[trexiejan]

What Batman thinks of Starfire.

Okay so I've seen many people curious about what Batman thinks of Starfire. I've seen a lot of people say Batman hates her and that he doesn't trust her cuz she's an alien and cuz he's a dickbabs shipper. I will explain why those statement aren't true. That's not who the original Batman is.

Let's go back to the original canon before all the stupid ooc retcons were created.

The first time Batman ever mentioned Starfire's name was in Tales of The Teen Titans #50 (1985) where Dick and Kory have already been dating for years.

and behold

- Bruce never referred to Kory as "the alien" he called her by her real name.

- He knows his son is in a real serious relationship with her.

- Bruce never made any bad comments about her nor did he show contempt for their relationship.

- He acted like a kind father who just wants to know how his son is doing with the woman he loves.

The 2nd time he mentioned her is in Swamp Thing #53 (1986) where he defended Human/Alien relationships like Dick and Kory's.

again he called her by her actual name and showed no issue towards Dick and Kory's relationship.

The 3rd time was in Funeral For a Friend (1993) where Bruce greeted her and Dick. He was happy to see both of them attending Superman's funeral. And for the 3rd time he called her by her actual name.

The Original Batman was a kind father who respected his son's alien girlfriend. Who wasn't spiteful and xenophobic towards Starfire and doesn't compare her to Barbara. and no, he wasn't a pro-dickbabs shipper. That ship didn't even exist before they retconned a lot of shit.

That everything changed after Dick and Kory got broken up. Reason for their break up? The Bat-editorial demanded they wanted Dick Grayson back to the Bat-office. The Titans Editorial had no choice but to pull him out of the Titans books and hand him back to the Bateditorial.

The Bat-editorial didn't like the idea of Dick dating someone outside the Batfamily like Kory so they couldn't continue their relationship in the Bat-books. It needed to end. The original wedding plan for Dick and Kory got cancelled. They don't like Dick and Kory? Okay fine, no one is forcing them to like them, whatever.

but no they couldn't just move on and leave Dick and Kory's past relationship alone.

They just had to say something negative about their relationship and put down their shared history, didn't they.

Why?

Is that really necessary?

Why can't they just respect the love that Dick and Kory had for each other when they were together and leave it at that ?

Cuz they did love and care for each other. It was a genuine love.

You can ship him with another woman without undermining and invalidating his history with Kory.

Like what did Kory ever do to them to make them hate her so much.

After they deaged Barbara to be the same age as Dick and pushed them together as the new pairing, they made a lot of comics degrading Kory, minimizing her interactions with Dick, and retconning her history and relationship with Dick into a one sided sexual fling.

and they turned Bruce against Kory too. This is where the idea of Bruce being a "anti-Starfire" and "pro dickbabs shipper" started.

They created this retcon in Gotham Knight #43 (2000) where Bruce acted xenopobhic towards her, making him refer to Kory as the alien and belittling her relationship with Dick, something he's never done before. Just to portray Barbara as his one true love. Bruce has never even talked about Dick and Barbara before and now suddenly he's shipping them. This retcon is not only an assasination of Kory and Bruce's character, it has also done a lot of damage to people's perception of Bruce and Kory's relationship.

All of this for the sake of propping up a retconned romance.

Not only is Bruce mischaracterized here, Babs is also acting so weird and ooc.

There was no reason for her to moon and whine over Dick like a lovesick girl from highschool.

She was a congresswoman when Dick was still in highschool. She called Dick "a child" and "little brother". She wasn't interested with him, he was too young for her 😭

Barbara already had a life of her own and own relationships, she dated Superman and got enganged to Jason Bard 😭

Dick had a precocious crush on her but he moved on from her when he moved out of Gotham. Even the original dickbabs writer said they were never meant to be together 😬

Barbara and Dick weren't pining over each other when Dick and Kory dated for years!

Dick never even once mentioned Barbara's name in the New Teen Titans books!

There was no reason for Babs to pursue Dick and vice versa, Both have already moved on to other people but stupid dickbabs retcons just had to exist 🙄

So yeah Bruce only hates Starfire when he's written by dickbabs writers and bateditors.

He was fine with her in canon before they pushed their dickbabs agenda.

Even in elseworld stories where it's not written by dickbabs writers.

Like in the animated show He supported Dick and Kory's relationship.

and in Kingdom Come he literally went to find the best doctors to help cure Kory's illness 😭

There's no logical reason for Batman to hate Starfire other than just to shit on Kory and prop up Dickbabs.

the whole "He doesn't like her cuz she's a dangerous alien" form of excuse is also BS

his bestfriend is literally Superman, an alien who is far more powerful than Starfire, he's also teammates with Martian Manhunter who is also an alien 😩

Overall yeah Fuck Dickbabs. It's the only ship that is good at character assasinating characters.

[ultimate-marysue]

Thinking about writing something about RoyJay. I just love the idea of those two accidentally fumbling their way into having one of the healthiest dynamics in DC.

Like, they're both considered such fuck UPS by the cape community at large post drugs/pit madness. I just think they're both such no-bullshit people they would be actually really effective at cutting each other's self destructive/self isolating behavior. And at first they would fight it because "fuck you and your holier than thou shit", but they would eventually realize neither of them is judging the other. That they both come from a place of caring and empathy even if they can't always express it.

Like Roy has a lot of background on the Batfam dynamics from being friends with both Dick and Jason. He understands how it feels to not meet your mentors expectations and to be let down by them in your time of need. He's also a father that has lost his daughter and I think that he can both validate Jason's need for vengeance while also offering some perspective on Batman's self destructive behavior after Jason's death. I think that whole angle is so interesting to explore (even in a Bad Batdad or trying his best but it's not enough Batdad situation). Roy also would let Jason vent about his siblings sure, but once he calms down he'd force Jason to reckon with the fact that these are kids. Dick, Cass and Tim aren't at fault for other people comparing them to Jason, and unfair comparisons go both ways.

On the other hand I think that Jason is probably one of the better equipped people to help Roy through his addiction. Jason has never blamed Catherine for her struggles and understands that if she never managed to get clean it wasn't for a lack of love for him. He would be the most empathetic in that situation, understanding how fucking hard it is to stay clean, but at the same time he would never go easy on Roy because he knows that sometimes you need someone to hold you accountable until you can do it yourself again. Roy would really appreciate having someone that has his daughter's best interest at heart but doesn't judge him as a horrible father for struggling. It can be so hard when everyone else just assumes that you should be able to magically cure something that's affecting your brain chemistry because it's what "good parents should do". I also think Jason would point out the hypocrisy of Roy calling Dick a Martyr while pulling the same shit. Maybe Roy doesn't do it out of guilt and a savior complex but the end results are the same.

Like, I don't ship them just because they're two men standing next to each other being friends. I think that even from a completely platonic standpoint their dynamic must be so interesting because of all of the above. Canon doesn't do enough with all of those tasty parallels because they're cowards. They're in the perfect place to help each other and they have the no-nonsense attitude to keep each other in check. They wouldn't judge each other but neither would they try to fix each other. They'd help each other fix themselves. I'm chewing my arm off.

[biancadoes1]

Question for the more experienced shippers in the mix. It feels like there is a constant pendulum in motion swinging between shippers being pissed at Nic and then pissed at Luke. And for reasons I don’t fully get. It’s a huge drain and honestly grates on my nerves more than the Jakolas at this point. Is this to be expected from here on out?

Ok I'm of the opinion that people should manage their own expectations and shouldn't look to others but I'll give this advice.

Their jobs are our source of entertainment. Their real lives is of interest but it is at a distance. They are not us we are not them. They provide small insight to how they live, we shouldn't ask for more than what they give or when they give it.

Be happy for them when you see them together it's hard to live when you're being scrutinized and criticized every day.

There is always more we don't know. More we won't see and even more we cannot explain. Let them choose their story and what and how they want to tell it. Theories will always be thrown out but don't let theories consume too much of your brain space. Theories can corrupt hence some of the emotional outbursts I see online. That's why distance is needed when looking from the outside.

Focus on other things too. We aren't going to ever get 24/7 content. Whatever we get watch, observe, comment respectfully and move on.

Do not preach and spread hate even if they do something you do not agree with. I'm not saying don't discuss, but don't hate either. They are not robots who will be unfeeling, they have personal struggles as we do.

Unless we are in the industry we will never fully understand what and why they do those things and what they are exposed to that we don't see. Maybe their respective situations provide a safety net from something they are dealing with for now.

One day will never be the next, each day is different. Do not let their public situations be your personal highs and lows.

We see their brand and image more than we see their personal life but behind the brand is a human being with emotions, struggles, ups and downs like anyone else. They do not have conventional love stories and closeness that we experience. Theirs is played out for the world to see, they have to protect them and their loved ones while still doing their jobs and living publicly.

When we realise we can easily live privately compared to them and they have to go through hoops to have some semblance of privacy and a normal life we will be more empathetic.

Life and humans are messy, as with any job, relationship etc things are not linear and sometimes things don't go our way. But it isn't our way it's their life. Not ours.

Stop projecting your expectations on their story. Separate the actors from what you want for them and what you want for you out of this. Their relationship is a bonus, their work is the main attraction. Sooner you get that the less you begin to spiral.

Today is Jake and Antonia tomorrow could be another situation. Again life isn't linear.

They also work together and there is a possibility they have a season or 2 again to go. Maybe they cannot move forward now for contractual reasons or if they can, it's things they need to consider that could be impacted if they are together or not. We don't know so we cannot judge harshly.

Shipping is not for the weak. Look up Christopher Plumber and Julie Andrews. Yes that same Julie who voices LW. She's decades into a Sound of Music ship. Martin and Meryl. I'm not saying this is the timeline for N and L but it's to show we don't control it, they do.

Appreciate the ship, worse thing is to force a relationship and they're not ready. Let's say they're together then break up, we aren't going to be there to wipe tears we won't see. Is that really what you want for them as fans? Where they can take control to make sure their friendship and working relationship is as healthy as possible let them decide because we definitely won't be there to pick up the pieces if they're together then break up. Hearts bleed a different type of sorrow and blood we don't see when genuine love and connection are broken. Losing a loved one to death is hard, losing a loved one while they are alive is fucking war.

OG shippers see it in compartments. We don't see all in a vacuum because not every thing fits. What we do know is we like them and their work and want the best for them. I also think there are new fandom people who have never shipped before or never observed a ship. If this is your first fandom and ship experience welcome to hell. I've been waiting for another ship for years but that's not happening yet so lol. Hope this helps.

.

[awinterrosesstuff]

Many fans consider the Naruto light novels canon, so that means you accept that :

- Naruto knew about Hinata liking him all along but thought she loved him like she would like ramen or shogi and ignored it for years

- Naruto didn't understand anything about love despite being his whole arc in the manga

- For Naruto and Hinata's wedding, Kakashi had a huge problem : the security of Konoha. Because everyone wanted to go the wedding (you see). So Kakashi used an old law and started a competition between the guests. So the ones who offer the best gifts can go to the wedding and the others, they are on duty. It's only after Tsunade came back (at least, she didn't lose her brain), that he changed his plan. Thankfully, Naruto never heard of it...

- Sakura kept chasing Sasuke until he returned her feelings and compared it to hitting your ennemy until he lost

- Hinata is friends with Orochimaru and doesn't have any problem with helping him in his experiences and letting him near Himawari

- Naruto didn't bother telling Hinata he was sick and dying

- When Naruto was worried about Shikamaru, he went to Sakura. Who told him to not "worry" and to focus on his own things to not disappoint people. We learnt later that he had good intuitions, since Shikamaru almost failed his mission and was convinced to join a secte (like Sai actually). Thankfully, Temari was smart enough to notice something was wrong too...

- Hinata is unhappy. Hanabi noticed it and offered her to live with her, but Hinata decided to fight her sister instead. (Actually it's consistent with the manga, but that doesn't sound good for NH fans right ?)

- Apparently, Boruto and Himawari were trained in the Huyga style despite not having the byakugan and never showing that style in the manga.

- Sakura kissed Sasuke on Naruto's dying body.

- Sakura almost died from poison despite being a poison expert since the second part of Naruto manga.

- In a mission to save Naruto, Sasuke got hurt by prison guardians (yeah Sasuke) and he watched an almond blossom hoping it would blossom because it reminded him of Sakura (a real teenager, I know).

- Sakura has an amazing sensing technique, but never uses in the Boruto manga despite the fact it would have been useful. Actually, Naruto and Shikamaru when they need a sensor, they ask Ino.

- Sasuke and Sakura both claimed they would use the edo tensei to see the other if they had the chance

- Sasuke is upset with Naruto and Kakashi for sending him away from his family in missions while it was his choice to leave Konoha by the end of Naruto.

To sum up, the novels contradict the original work (and even the Boruto manga), your favorite characters and ships sound different (and sometimes even look "worse").

And the truth is... why would I consider them canon ? They aren't written by Kishimoto. And from one novel to another, they're not the same writers either.

And at the end of the day, if I don't need them to understand Naruto and Boruto, then it's very telling.

[ceoandslutler]

what even was this post on my home page

1) pedophilia and grooming are tragic irl phenomena. a fictional child being sexualised does not make anyone a pedophile. ships aren't "grooming". let's stop throwing that word around. let's not equate that crime to fictional thoughts. 1984 thought police behaviour atp. and this is coming from someone who doesn't write or consume fictional underage content.

2) this is just such a gross* mischaracterisation and generalisation of sebaciel shippers.

*gross as in the german word for utter/complete, not as in disgusting. which btw, extremely disrespectful to call other people "revolting" over... *checks notes* ..fictional ships

it's so rude and all kinds of presumptuous to assume some people have lesser cognitive ability than you to critically analyse a work simply because they see the main pairing that the creator is trying to promote in a romantic or sexual way. im not even a big fan of o!ciel being sexualised but the manga literally does it—why are we acting like the people who see it are delusional or stupid? the way this person's first post is alienating a part of the fandom by implying they're dumb just for shipping something..? is crazy. our analysis tags are full, we're not all writing porn 24/7 and EVEN IF SOME OF US ARE?? hello??? everyone in this fandom should accept the source material is extremely sexually charged. even non sbcl shippers are often writing/drawing sexually charged scenes either canon or fanon. anyway no reason to generalise people like this.

3) comparing the work of yana toboso to stories with intense sexual themes then acting like sebaciel shippers are the unhinged ones who are "scrap[ping] off any sort of character between those two and us[ing] them for their fetish niche fantasies" is a little wild. do you not realise those works are all disturbing and most of them sexually violent?

here's some proof in case anyone doesn't know those stories very well: frankenstein (sexual violence as a form of power/revenge), dracula (despite its queer themes, ultimately women's death is portrayed as something beautiful), even in wuthering heights (literally fetishistic sadomasochism)

like come on. are we being serious? sebaciel is the problem..?? you read all that and missed the fetishism and bdsm and rape/sexual violence?? or is it somehow okay if those works do it? but not if sebaciel shippers write about this stuff? why the double standard

4) it's really funny to me how they acknowledge care between sebaciel and somehow it's sebaciel shippers who are delusional. im sorry but not even most sebaciel shippers have such a simplified view of sebaciel; poetic as it sounds, "broken boy and heartless demon" is such a mischaracterisation of them. i don't care how anyone sees them but come ON, you can't criticise other people and call their behaviour "truly revolting" (!!) over a ship and then have such an infantile view of the characters.

5) "consummation of the contract"

nothing more to say. this has to be the craziest first post of a blog i have ever seen. please don't go looking for this person, they just said some funny things that i had to point out.

anyway same person's stance on generative AI... take from that what you will.

[lwolfcat429]

(platonic/romantic) yandere Tmnt (2003-2012 either one) with catra like reader

So imagine this;;

Reader, and her family (I'm using her but you can change it) are happy and living a normal life, until their out for a walk, reader is like a little kid (6-9) and this weird goo fell on them, changing them a little. Cat ears, tail, eyes (color remains the same but her pupils --the black parts of the eyes-- change shape) her skin turns into fur...her parents and are shocked and without thought ran away from her. Leaving her alone, she starts crying but is found by the shredder, he takes reader in to raise his own and karai's sister. Later in years, Reader is literally raised as a child soldier, though she has a hot temper and easily upset, she does good work for shredder and goes to fight the turtles but each one starts having romanic feelings for her because her daminer changes depending on the situation if it's a robbery, reader is more "God, can I robe a place without being disturbed, it annoying ya know? 🙄" But if it's something more serious shes more like "I'm gonna fuckin' kill you!! If you don't start getting out of my way!!" Obviously raph falls her first but Leo next when he sees a small act of kindness, the reader saves a dog from the destruction she has laid out. Mikey next when he sees her stealing games and skateboards, lastly Donnie; he and his brothers were stalking the footclan/ shredders men to find their hideout, when you pulled out a few smart moves with maps, car engineering, swordsmanship ship, etc. showing your both brains and brawn perfectly (as shredder as raised you to be)

The boys can tell you have good in you by the way you speak to animals and Karai but it is also clear your relationship is shredder isn't as father-daughter but more boss-employee, you call him sir, hardly fight him on anything and your cat ears and tail act timidly when his around. He is softer on you and Karai but unlike Karai, he does make you do much harder work than Karai. You do act like him though, having his temper, copying some of his fight moves, even the way he speaks sometimes but other times, the real you cames out, the you you hide from him. Music, painting, fashion, skateboarding, video games, etc

It's good to note here; you haven't inherited Karai's or shredders cruelty, you're actually more merciful than them but still bad, and often hurting other people who work under shredder. You have a temper (previously mentioned) but it's not much to shredders or karai's, you throw stuff or break workers backs, Karai and shredder break more than backs, someone is most likely dead so compared to them, your tame. You use your claws as weapons, whenever your fighting the turtles to try to scratch them but your good at fighting, able to Dodge and use your fist really well.

Let's time skip a bit here

Shredder kidnaps April, and your the only semi nice person to her, often giving her better food (usually the foot gives her mush and gross stuff) you will often hand her a second tray of better looking and tasting food you personally made, explaining you figured she wouldn't eat the first tray and she was better bait when she wasn't starving. And when the mad-scientist, Baxter Stockman, experience on April, you're there to make sure April wasn't being treated poorly or killed. You draw lines in the sand when no one else does. April actually starts liking you better than everyone else because you aren't as bad as everyone else. So when the turtles save her, you let her explain secretly, making April swear to come back and save you

[raven-at-the-writing-desk]

When you think about Raven and when you look at and remember other people’s Yuusonas, when does it feel too much or is there a line for Yuusonas? Because sometimes I look at my own Yuusonas and feel that I am doing to much for him. Like what he can do, what he likes, his lore. I shame myself that I am doing too much but it feels right.

I was surprised when I learned that (Ms./Miss/Mrs.?) Raven was similar to my own Yuusona, Maeve. The biggest that I did was made him related to Crowley,being able to use magic and fight, and I already feel like I crossed some line. It fits on how I see his story play out and I don’t want to overhaul him.

I just vented a bit, I’m sorry about that. What I’m trying to ask is that what do you do if you start to feel that your character becomes too much? Because for me, I want to brain dump and put out every little detail about Maeve to people and get feedback from other people. Outside of the one person I can actually talk to about Twisted Wonderland.

It sounds to me like you’re tackling two different things here? 😅 Both are related to OCs, but one seems to be focused on activity/frequency of content and the other one seems to be focused on originality or how one's OCs compares to others.

Before I address both points, I'd like to clarify that while many people OCs in the Twst fandom are Yuusonas, it's not the case for every OC. "Yuusona" refers to a character made as a stand-in for Yuu, oftentimes acting as a self-insert or a "better version" of the creator. However, characters that aren't stand-ins for Yuu by definition are not Yuusonas. Residents and NRC students hailing from Twisted Wonderland, for example, are OCs, but NOT Yuusonas (since Yuus are generally magicless and/or transmigrated from another world). In other words, Yuusonas are OCs, but OCs are not Yuusonas. By these measures, my own Twst character (Miss Raven) is an OC but NOT a Yuusona.

To your first point: it depends on the individual. Every person has their own threshold for when they’ve shared their creative works “enough”. For example, there are entire blogs dedicated to just posting about a Twst OC, whereas I scarcely post about my OC unless I am asked about her. I know people who only indulge in their ship, while I prefer to build extensive lore for my character beyond the initial ship. Some people are just shier than others and keep their stuff private, some people are more outgoing and want to be publicly active. That’s a metric you need to gauge and set for yourself, because 2) no one else knows you like you know yourself and 2) again, everyone’s comfort level with this varies.

I noticed that you mentioned not just one’s own creations, but also “[looking] at and “[remembering] other people’s Yuusonas”. This phrasing makes it sound as though you may be in the habit of comparing your work to others’ work, and I’m always going to be of the mindset that this is a mistake. Comparison in certain instances is fine (maybe you like someone’s art style or writing technique)—but becoming fixated on what others are doing is the start of a slippery slope. You may then set arbitrary standards to meet or try to use other people’s posting schedules as a yardstick to “judge” your own performance. This can feed into a viscously unhealthy cycle. “I’m not doing the same amount as X”, “I’m doing more than X”, “X has more engagement than I do”, “I have more engagement than X”, etc. It’s setting yourself up to be in a constant competition, and there’s no winning with a game that doesn’t end.

You should do whatever you think is most fitting for yourself. If it “feels right” to you, then go for it. Find ways to push past the shame and the little voice that tells you “that’s cringe”. Whatever others are doing is the pace they’ve set for their own comfort, and you shouldn’t let what other people are doing dictate your own actions. Remember that making and playing with OCs is, first and foremost, self-indulgent—so put yourself first and have fun with it!!

To your second point: there is no such thing as an original idea. I certainly am not the first to have an OC that is Crowley’s relative or the first to give their OC magic. However, even if I was somehow the pioneer of these things, that does not grant me the exclusive rights or the trademark for them 😭

Two separate people could come up with similar traits for their OCs by pure coincidence; you’ll find tons of overlap in any fandom, especially in Twst if you find two characters twisted from the same Disney inspiration. So long as there wasn’t blatant art theft, plagiarism, tracing, malicious intent, etc. there’s no issue if your OC is similar to another person’s OC 🤷‍♀️

No line was crossed. You don’t need to overhaul anything. And again, you shouldn’t worry about what other people are doing; it has no bearing on what you’re doing. Think of the fandom like a massive sandbox. Everyone has their own little slice in it and has their own toys to play with. There’s no need for anyone to step into someone else’s slice of the sandbox or to worry about the toys someone else has or what they’re doing with those toys. You have your own toys that you made and are happy playing with, so just stick to your slice of the sandbox! As long as you’re having fun and not hurting anyone or imposing yourself on them, it’s fine.

Last thing I have to say is 💦 while I 100% understand being eager to share and chat about your creations, it’s… unfortunately not a guarantee? Validation is nice, but not necessary, and no one is for certain going to engage with the posts they come across. We have to learn to be accept that and carry on. Maybe it would be good to start small or just focus on sharing with a group of friends to build confidence first? It’s much easier to interact with familiar faces than the entirety of the internet. This is what I tend to do when I want to get feedback on big ideas or projects I have.

I hope that you find this advice helpful ^^ Good luck with your creations!

[cowboys-tshot]

I keep seeing people call Eurylochus a hypocrite, and while I kinda agree, I also kinda disagree. Hear me out.

So, people's main thing with Eury is that he gets mad at Odysseus for sacrificing six men to Scylla, but he doomed all of the crew by opening the wind bag, and wanted to abandon 22 men-turned-pigs on Circe's island. (For anyone wondering where I'm getting that number, it's from The Odyssey).

But these events aren't really the same, or comparable. Let's take them one by one. (This is gonna be a long one, so I'll cut the post here for the sake of your timelines)

The wind bag. I fully understand why people are pissed at Eurylochus for doing this, and I am too. But you have to remember that he did not do this out of malicious intent. He did not know this would end in the eventual deaths of the entire crew. Even though Eurylochus was warned about the storm being inside the bag, none of them knew it would take them right to the Laestrygonians. He had no idea Poseidon was pissed off at Odysseus for blinding Polyphemus. It was a stupid decision, certainly, but the following events were not intentional on his part.

Circe's island. Eurylochus had no reason to believe there was any way of rescuing those 22 men. Circe's a goddess/witch. What the fuck are two human dudes gonna do about that? Odysseus didn't even know what he was going to do. He would not have had any solution if not for Hermes, which is not something Eurylochus could've predicted. It's pretty reasonable for him to think that those men were a lost cause.

Scylla. So far, all of the deaths have been "accidental:" 14 from Polyphemus, 543 from Poseidon/Laestrygonians, and 1 from Circe (RIP Elpenor). I am not attributing the 543 deaths to Eurylochus for the reasons detailed above. No one knew these deaths would happen. They were all sudden/unexpected. Let's take these next sixth deaths moment-by-moment:

Odysseus redirects the ship, using directions that no one else knew (Odysseus was reading the siren's lips, but everyone else was too busy catching the other sirens, and all of them had beeswax in their ears). Odysseus tells Eurylochus to light six torches.

One by one, Eurylochus watches every man that he handed a torch get brutally eaten. He himself is almost eaten, but he passes his torch off to someone else before he notices the correlation. He only realizes what's happening as the sixth man is about to die, and Eurylochus is too late to save him.

Odysseus won't even gaze at the blood left behind. But it's all Eurylochus can look at.

These deaths were planned. Odysseus knew what he was bringing his men into, and not only did he keep it from them, he sacrificed his men that didn't even know what was happening. And Eurylochus likely feels part of the blame, having been the one to light the torches, even if he didn't know the consequences of it.

Eurylochus has a right to be upset, to be angry. These are the first deaths that could have been prevented, because Odysseus could've simply not taken his men through Scylla's territory. But that's the only way to get home. Odysseus sees it as a necessary sacrifice, but Eurylochus sees it as needless. Because at this point, Eurylochus has given up hope that they'll ever get home. What is the point of sacrificing these men for a goal we will never achieve?

This is not a situation where one person is at fault. Odysseus and Eurylochus are both to blame. Like Scylla says, "There is no price we won't pay." Odysseus himself says, "You know you'd have done the same." People do stupid, dangerous, bad shit to survive. Odysseus sacrifices his men. Eurylochus still wants to live, he just doesn't see the point in trying to return to Ithaca. That's why he kills Helios's cattle. He is starving and he wants to live, even though he knows the consequences.

The whole point of all this is that people will do awful and/or stupid things to survive. Not just Odysseus.

[maoam]

This post has to be about me lol since op has me blocked. Though it could be about someone else, or many people. But there's always someone who is the last straw. They wanted us to see the discourse post yet blocked...

I guess I am an older fan, spiteful and entitled... but the thing, sn is still popular, the ooc version of it that is. In some ways it's worse than before, because they go out of their way to argue it's in character using shit like weird fillers or merchandise which are not CANON. They are not an oppressed minority by any means, just because me or maybe someone else writes posts criticising their portrayal. SN fics still portray Naruto as a doormat (tbf, it's hard to find ic fanfics in general) and Sasuke as weirdly sexually aggressive.

SN is popular "there aren't a lot of us anymore" is not true at all. The most popular sn blogs still make Sasuke daddy jokes, talk about Sasuke's dick size endlessly (and clearly think whoever has the bigger dick HAS to top), and compare Naruto to bimbo women like Ariana Grande and so on, and use Naruto as a fandom bicycle claiming everyone wants access to his butthole, while Sasuke of course cannot be shipped with anyone else (despite the fact both of them are only obsessed with each other). People even use someone like Megan Thee Stallion to argue Naruto has to be bottom lol. Even someone I know who is new to the fandom, admitted that SN portrayals are rarely ever in character, even if she finds many NS portrayals who are ooc, there are many times more SN ones that are like that.

Also I use Kishimoto's manga to argue about Naruto and Sasuke's characters, not 'headcanons'. I have gotten anons tell me they like my blog specifically because I focus on canon, don't mischaracterize either of them, instead of focusing on whose dick goes where all the time. :)

However, I do think there's more variety nowadays! But the ooc:ness is much more aggressively pushed at the same time. But what I heard from other people the person who made this post also likes Naruko and Naruto in a maid dress acting all girly and demure mostly and follows all the artists who mischaracterize them so I doubt they are the most unbiased person themselves when it comes to the question if sn fandom has changed or not. And you can just admit you only like sn, there's no need to pretend you used to like ns... and you aren't the person to yell at other people for their "ooc headcanons". I'm sorry to tell you but the Naruto in Kishi's head is not the type to dress up in frilly stuff and acting all girly girly. Also an actual female Naruto would be a tomboy.