#HH says other people are heaven

[velvet-games]

I want to see Alastor and Vox become friends and collapse on a couch together giggling until they can’t breathe. is that too much to ask.

[luckycloverforducks]

Fuck it, HH swap AU

Their core personalities and backgrounds stay the same, it's mostly a role switch

Niffty <--> Husker

Angel Dust <--> Vaggie

Alastor <--> Charlie

(the typical for swap AUs, I know,,)

Everyone else stays the same

These r edits bc I was just figuring out their designs for the AU, I'll draw them normally another time (Husker isn't here cuz I can't find a good png of the mf)

In this AU Alastor started the hotel mostly because he randomly thought up the idea once and thought, "that's fucking hilarious, I'm doing that" + a secondary sentimental reason he'd kill me for saying (he got genuinely fully invested in the cause eventually)

He advertised it on his radio show suddenly out of the blue after 7 and a half years of radio (lol) silence. Alastor still owns Husker's and Niffty's souls but they're also obviously friends (or atleast close to it)

Also he can read tarot bc why not :3

Charlie is closer to her dad in this AU and more sheltered, adopting a more aloof, smug, and dangerous persona so sinners take her seriously, she also has a very slight condescending outlook towards sinners but she's at her core still compassionate and still views them as her people and want to protect them to a certain extent, and she still thinks the Exterminations are unnecessary and cruel, but she doesn't feel like she can do much about it since according to Lucifer's stories and discouragement, she knows heaven likely wouldn't listen much if at all, but when she heard of Alastor's little project it resparked hope in her and she decided to invest in it, becoming co-owner and funder for the hotel.

Angel Dust/Anthony never made a deal with Valentino and actually stayed in his family's crime/mafia business for the 1st half of him being in Hell, but his dad is a POS and kicked him out for being gay so he started doing s3x work, and then he met Alastor after he brutalized his harassers one day, and Angel wanted to repay the favor somehow. Alastor seems interested in him so they struck a deal (not a soul deal, just a simple deal) which has Angel/Anthony is under Alastors protection in exchange for Angel/Anthony's loyalty and assistance when needed (which is a rare case so Angel still feels like he owes Alastor). They grow friendly with time, and Alastor offers to have him be patient zero for his redemption project, and he accepted.

Vaggie/Vi is still a fallen exterminstor and still met Charlie the same way she did in the show, but after that they went their separate ways and Vi finds herself making a deal with Velvette. Instead of being a pornstar like Angel in the show, she is an influencer and a rockstar/singer, she does enjoy making music and playing the guitar but Velvette tends to overwork her and make her do things she doesn't really like for views/popularity. Velvette is the nicest to Vi/Vaggie compared to with her other employees (which isn't a very highly set bar tbh) but she also frequently break her boundaries.

Vi met Charlie again during one of her concerts and they got close and started dating. (Also one sided Velvette x Vaggie is sort of slightly maybe canon in this AU bc toxic Yuri is fun (and it's only fully one sided after Charlie and Vaggie/Vi started dating))

She helps manage the hotel when needed, but is honestly only there cause Charlie is.

Not much about Niffty changes tbh (she's perfect the way she is, utterly unhinged 😍) she's just a bit more mellowed out and less hyper (she's still hyper just not all the time like in the show) and she's also a bartender and has surprisingly good taste for alcohol, and also frequently makes borderline poisonous drinks while experimenting, but when she gets it right it's really good. Doesn't stop the others of being terrified of her drinks though

Husker is a more smiley and charming in this AU, using a laid back attitude to put people at ease and more willing to open up to him if they need to (he used to use the information people share as blackmail when he needs to back when he was an Overlord, although he never actually needs to spread anything, just threats), and he's still very observant but he's also slightly more unhinged- He's a sort of butler/cleaner for the hotel

He still gets grumpy time to time, but mostly when he's drunk, which isn't as often anymore ever since Niffty was put in charge of the bar (understandably so)

He has a bit of an anger issue and also gets annoyed easily, and sometimes makes unhinged threats as a sort of joke (they stop being much of a joke once you genuinely piss him off)

He likes things clean and tidy because it helps him pretend to be put together

He and Alastor are a bit friendlier compared to in the show, hes still one of the few people that knows more about Alastor, though hes still bummed about the whole being owned by Alastor thing (Husker can also read tarot to a lesser extent bc Al taught him for funzies and Husker thought it's interesting)

His gambling addiction is also ever so slightly worse

[verboselocket38]

Since Sinsmas came out It gave me time to think about this and I came to the decision I am no longer watching Helluva Boss and Hazbin hotel to make critical posts of it anymore.

I tried and tried and tried to bring my love for the show as I discovered it years ago to be there as I countinue watching. But as I did, my love turned to hate, and the story's writing went from a funny assassination buisness to a Gacha Life Story thats shoves fanfic tropes in ever hole of the story and is telling me "how I should like a character" without giving me the chance to think for myself how they appeal to me.

Since stans keep gaslighting me into thinking this show is good, glosses over Viv's bad behavior saying she "debunked" allegations when it reality she just denied it with no proof whatsoever, and how they attack anyone towards critisms. I am tired. I get the same old responses of people saying "Umm... If you dont like it dont watch it!"

I ignored it up till this point because guess what? I will. Because if this show is deemed as "Good writing", I might as well go somewhere else where Im not being gaslit and overtime have internal anger and irritation. One show justifies cheating and promote a higher class rapist relationship, the other is saying rapists and pedophiles can go to heaven if they feel bad about it. The fanbase and show is somehow both more mysoginistic than Adam COMBINED. And what pisses me off most is that NOBODY in the Vivziepop community EVER talked about Shay or the other people in the community who were bullied to suicide.

Anyway to end this off you might still see me lingering the tags or whatnot, but Im not posting any more things in the critical tag and just going to stop watching HH and HB, there is literally no point. I dont know if anyone actually will care that I leave the tags or if any of my points have ever made a difference, but from the year I've been here its been pretty ok from my experience. Imma just start posting Loonatics Unleashed rewrite stuff, Ocs, Ratchet and Clank, Sonic, or just things I like. I dont know if pepple will care that much for it as the critical stuff (The most notes I ever get are from these tags lol) but honestly I need time to meditate and control my feelings. With that being said, have a good day ❤️

[archivedblog16]

No same Anon about Lilith and Eve.

I agree that at this point, I don't expect anything from Vivzie's female characters. I know I'm going to be disappointed, I'll just take what I like and rewrite them.

Now, the fact that Anon threw out is wrong: Lilith does not belong to the Bible. It belongs to Jewish folklore (Torah) but more as a legend since its origin is Mesopotamian.

Thanks to a medieval satirical text, Lilith was considered the first woman and wife of Adam.

Of course, the second fact that I throw is true: Lilith in her myths is far from the feminist figure with which the image of Lilith is popular. Unlike "Lilith who does not let herself be bent" in the original myths, she is a demonic being who kidnaps babies and rapes men. She does this together with Naamah, Agrat bat Mahlat and Eisheth Zenunim (this is more from the Zohar).

The idea of Lilith as an "empowered figure" is thanks to the creator of Wicca, Gerald Gardner. A very controversial subject, very controversial. I will not go into the debate if the Wiccans are considered a kind of pagans or just imitators of paganism who want to feel special because of the esoteric of the whole thing, but it is due to them that the figure of Lilith was bleached to look like this "rebel" being. And recent popular culture pushed that narrative further.

The same example is HH: Lucifer and Lilith are in love, Adam is evil from minute 1. Lilith did not bow to Heaven and Adam, she rebelled with her love Lucifer and now she is the queen of Hell.

When in reality several myths tell us that the one who did not overcome her ex was Lilith:

In one version we are told that Lilith transforms into Eve and has relations with Adam.

In another we are told that one night she enters Eden and rapes him.

In another we are told that, after Cain and Abel, Adam and Eve separate for 140 years due to the horror of the affair. In this myth there are 2 versions: again, Lilith has relations without Adam's consent (here Naamah, Agrath and Eishet are included). And the other is much calmer where Adam accepts to be with Lilith during those years.

What is made clear is that in all versions they have descendants: the lilims, the succubi, some vampiric beings, and sometimes it is even said that Asmodeus is the son of these two.

(In other versions, Asmodeus is the son of a mortal and Naamah, in other versions he is simply the husband of Lilith).

So for the first time, if Vivziepop puts Lilith as an evil being, a bad mother and so on... well, she would be the only character that is close to the original source.

And don't get me wrong, I'm not against reinvention or looking for a different route to the established (I have Adam x Lilith as the endgame in my rewrite and of course I've had to tweak some things) but Vivzie is criminal to the point that I'd rather she didn't touch Lilith and Eve because they're going to be at the mercy of favoring Lucifer. Do I want to be wrong? Yes, I want the show to tell me "You know what? Actually the conflict of these two doesn't revolve around Lucifer or Adam, neither are they going to become lesbians, nor are they going to have that kind of "I'm better than you because..." fight; no, their conflict is going to make Lilith feel guilty because she realized that she ruined two people's lives by imposing herself before what she thought was right, becoming the very thing that she complained about Adam and Heaven. And that Eve's conflict is that for a long time she felt this complex of being the replacement, that she should imitate Lilith because she was "the original, what a woman should be" as well as sticking to what "a wife should be", even putting that Adam let her be her own person because he was worried about how bad Eve was getting because of her own existential crisis. He as Lilith can ask Eve for forgiveness, but Eve cannot accept it. Thank you for saying so, but Lilith and Lucifer's actions doomed many and in horrible ways."

Am I going to get it? No, but I have accepted that I will live with it. There will always be a fanfic, a video, a new series, something, that really wants to explore all these characters beyond the original versions or the cheap tropes surrounding them.

Sorry for the big text, I needed to get it out of my system.

Yeah, I don’t blame anyone for having super low expectations regarding the Hazbin Hotel women especially with Lilith and Eve. Since in Helluva Boss, the women are demonized, one-note, and super side-lined. The women in Hazbin Hotel so far are mediocre anyway.

You good, Anon. No need to apologize and thanks for the clarification regarding Lilith. The version you mentioned about Lilith transforms into Eve is interesting because Vivziepop is planning some big plot twist with Lilith, Eve, Rosie, and Roo. Something about one being the other.

[barblaz-arts]

Were u a fan of HH when the pilot episode was first released?

I didn't like, participate in the fandom or anything, and I can't say I liked Hazbin itself at the time, because the crude and vulgar humor was a bit too much for my tastes and the songs in the pilot weren't for me, but I did like Chaggie enough to read fics at the time. I remember feeling so sad for Vaggie then, because the fics would be so angsty. Like i get it tho, because at the time the backstory we knew about her was that she was a victim of SA(among. Other things...) when she was alive, and although they were good fics, they sure were painful to read.

I didn't expect to make content for this fandom even after the actual show aired either. I thought I'd just be passively consuming other people's content like before, but Chaggie is so underappreciated even tho they were given plenty exposure despite all the other things happening in the show(the hotel's validity, Angel's development, overlord politics, morningstar family drama, Heaven vs Hell conflict). And seeing the fandom go so rabid over male characters and mlm ships that have barely any screentime or depth made me so frustrated, i had to proverbially roll up my sleeves and give the neglected girls the appreciation they deserve 😤

[fandomsfordays21]

This is no hate to any Hazbin Hotel fans but I just need to say this.

I think the thing that's the most disappointing about the bad writing in Hazbin Hotel is how they executed the whole "Heaven is corrupt" thing and also how they executed the "Rebellious angel who saw the corruption and was shunned for it."

I fucking LOVE both of these tropes. I would even go as far as to say they are my favorites. But HH was just... So underwhelming with it.

Vaggie just feels so one dimensional and her being cast out of Heaven just didn't have any impact on me in the way it should have. Not to mention how Adam and the other angels are written. There were so many opportunities for Adam's character and his motivations for being a part of exterminations. For example, it could be because he holds a grudge against Lucifer because of Lilith and the apple, or because he has been conditioned to see himself as a higher being because of his status as the first man so he sees others as being lesser. But no. They didn't do that. Adam is like the adult show version of the bully/mean girl trope in kids shows.

Gabriel ULTRAKILL is a good example of what Vaggie or Adam could have been. (I know I'm talking about ULTRAKILL again cut me some slack).

He was conditioned to believe everything the council told him and that the things he was doing were "God's will" even though God had long since left. He literally killed Minos again despite Minos just wanting his citizens to live in peace because the Council wanted the denizens of Hell to live through their punishments. He was a loyal soldier through and through, doing everything he was told to do without question. Then, once he loses to V1 for the first time, he is immediately shunned by heaven just because he failed once. And they only leave him with the options of dying or proving himself useful again. Once he loses to V1 the second time, though, he takes the time to think and realizes the manipulation of the council and kills them in order to make a point to the rest of heaven. He's definitely going to die now, but he's fine with that because he is dying by his own rules.

See how that's so much better than Vaggie's lazy backstory of, "I didn't want to kill a child and heaven was mad." Or Adam's, "I'm just a dick and I kill people because it's fun."

I know that people have their own tastes in terms of storytelling and themes, but I think this is just really upsetting for me because HH has such an interesting concept and I feel like Vivzy really missed the mark on it with the bad plot and character writing. HH is just one of those pieces of media where you can read fanfiction of much better quality than the source.

(And we're not even taking into account the parallels between Minos and Charlie and how the idea of what sins deserve punishment are handled because that's a whole different can of worms and I'm already really upset that Vivzy can't seem to execute certain themes as well as a fucking Doom inspired FPS can.)

[chaifootsteps]

I’ve just watched the new TADC episode and it becomes ever clearer that this is the star show that really demonstrates what the pinnacle of indie animation is. With every new episode, Goose and the TADC team prove that they have the top talent in character development, story writing as well as, of course, appealing animation. All these things are moving along with depth and heart and only with a handful of base characters. On top of that, the voice actors… the original voice actors of the online sphere, are proving that they are well and truly worth their salt and deserving of respect. And of course, none of there fellows are ‘showing off’ via their social media accounts. They are incredibly humble and hardworking.

Then you have the other end of the spectrum - Vivziepop. She still suffers now with the same flaws she had as a student on Tumblr (shockingly never improved), primarily bad writing and broken character development. Nobody can fail to notice that Viv’s biggest flaw is throwing too many characters out there at a time, then failing to bring depth and nuance to them all. She did this with Zoophobia, and she’s still doing it now with HH/HB. For example, starting with the premise of ‘imp assassins’ then spiralling into ‘gay melodrama’… it’s as if she has no real control over her own work. Same with Hazbin and the ‘redemption turned war with Heaven’ plot that was rushed to bits. Add to that the foul treatment of the people who got her pilot off the ground in the first place, the obsession with just getting in with the ‘it’ crowd (Broadway singers), and the way she treats her fandom; providing her with all the funding to see all her shows and travel here there and everywhere, and everything smacks of a devastating loss of integrity.

All I’m going to say is, in the world on indie animation, be more like Goose… and Tracy, and Fable!

- Taxidermy Anon

Well said. While Goose, Tracy, and Fable are raising the bar, Viv really is out there serving as the embodiment of "no one wants to be a Squidward."

[sinner-sunflower]

A HH Lucifer-centric AU 10/?

PART 1, PART 2, PART 3, PART 4, PART 5, PART 6, PART 7, PART 8, PART 9, PART 11, PART 12, PART 13, PART 14, PART 15, PART 16, PART 17, PART 18, PART 19, PART 20, PART 21, PART 22

Yknow,

The more I think about it...

This is looking a lot more like an Infected AU.

P.S. already apologies for the Hamilton reference laksjdlksaj I couldn't help it.

----------------------------------------------

Lucifer is having a hard time breathing.

Beyond the safety border is a sea of red flowers of a kind Lucifer has never seen before in his lifetime. They seem to have sprouted from the crawling roots.

The King of Hell would've even said it was beautiful- he would've been in awe what with the flowers shimmering under Sloth's source of light creating serene waves whose sounds can lull one to sleep.

He would have.. if it weren't for what's coming out of it.

A thick, black miasma is seeping its way out of the flowers' mouths causing the suffocating air in the previously cleanest place in all of hell.

Roo's presence is more prominent than ever. Belphegor and her people at the site are all wearing masks to protect themselves from the dark mist.

Belphegor's voice makes him come down from the skies.

Belphegor: Lucifer!

Lucifer: What is this?

Belphegor: Sloth lost power for an hour which we guess is Roo's doing. When it came back... all these flowers were here. Most inhaled a bit of the miasma but no immediate effects. We have required everyone to put on a mask to be sure. With the sudden onset of this presumably toxic air, evacuation to Lust is starting earlier than expected.

Lucifer: That's good.

Belphegor: The sealing ritual will start in a day or two. Satan wants to be sure there are no more surprises once we start.

Lucifer: He's right. t will just be a waste of time and resources.

Belphegor: ...Lucifer?

Lucifer: Hmm?

Belphegor: Will I lose your respect if I admit that I'm afraid?

Lucifer turns to his old friend (sibling, really), eyes growing soft.

Lucifer: As long as you won't lose yours for me.

Belphegor: You're afraid?

Lucifer: Yes. Just like I was when I rebelled against heaven. Or when I was made King of Hell. Or when Charlie was born. I'm as afraid now as I was before.

Belphegor: Oh..

Lucifer: Am I worth any less to you now?

Belphegor: No! Of course not! You will always be my, our, King. When you say jump, we ask how high. If you wish to go to war with Heaven, we shall ask when.

Lucifer smiles a bit. He was just teasing Belphegor. He and the Sins have endured Hell's greatest hardships together- he doesn't think he can lose respect for any of them if they tried.

Lucifer: Then there's my answer.

Belphegor: I- thank you.

Lucifer: I have to get going now. The sooner I find her, the sooner I can get back.

Belphegor: Are you sure that she will provide assistance for Hell's problems?

Lucifer: Let me worry about that.

Belphegor: Of course, do be careful on your journey, Lucifer.

Lucifer: Thanks, Bel.

Lucifer mimics opening a curtain to create a portal to the living world. He's about to go through when the Sin of Sloth calls his name once more.

Belphegor: Lucifer!

His sister gives him a deep bow. Murmurs around them spur as the people of Sloth have never seen their Prince act like this before. Lucifer can't blame them, it's not like he and the Sins ever interact in public. They don't know that Belphegor and the others always make sure to show Lucifer their loyalty to him.

Belphegor: I- we- have the greatest honor to be your obedient servant.

Lucifer looks around and sees that all the people have followed suit in bowing.

Lucifer: And I you.

And with that, he finally leaves Hell.

------------------

The moment Lucifer sets foot on Earth is a whiplash. It has been a while since he even ventured outside of Hell despite being allowed to- too guilty to leave because if the souls his actions had dammed to hell can't, then he too shouldn't-

He feels the cool breeze caress his face and play with his wings like a child would. There are birds up on the trees singing, fish in the nearby pond splashing, and then a few deers looking at him with curious eyes. Wow, Alastor's still following him.

Lucifer casts an invisibility spell on himself and prepares to fly. Once he was up in the sky, he took in one last appreciative look at the scene.

Lucifer: You've grown, Eden.

He says to no one and leaves.

A gust of strong winds suddenly blows through the forest below, causing the animals to sing their sounds along with the rustling leaves of the trees and grass.

If the fallen angel stayed a while longer, maybe he would've heard the wind utter a reply.

'We've missed you, dear angel.'

--------------------------------------------------------

What to look forward to in Part 11:

Luci's thoughts as he travels around Earth.

The meetup

[cosmonadarovicarts]

Series/webtoons if you like Hazbin Hotel/Helluva Boss

Lovely hell

I'll start right away with the probably least known AND best of all - at least in terms of being similar to the universe of HH and HB-.

"Tanz, a powerful creature of pure evil, is vanished to Earth agaist her will. Weak and without a plan, she'll have to rely to Cain, a human, to guide her throught the world and figure a way back to her home: Hell."

First of all, it's a webtoon, so you can read it for free on Webtoon! Created by Tita (stage name Lorsupp), the story takes place in the present day. our protagonists are biblical characters (I won't give spoilers about who Tanz is. Cain, you guys must have already understood...).

This webtoon deserves much more recognition! the story is organic and well-paced, funny and tense when necessary. The characters are super charismatic and have chemistry, the Lore of Hell is super interesting and with a different approach from HH/HB. I love the character design - you can see the evolution of the author's traits as the chapters go by.

It's great to see other ways of approaching well-known characters -like the Jewish/Christian angels and demons-. A emphasis for Gabriel, ahhh this character hahah Anyway, this webtoon is the one I most recommend!

You can read it -> Webtoon account

When Instagram starts working again, I'll share the creator's account here!

Vilanius

This series - with just a few episodes left - is a Mexican animation released for Cartoon Network. Compared to HH's type of humor, here it is much more toned down, as it is aimed at a younger audience.

"Villainous is the story of Black Hat Org., run by Black Hat (whose name is synonymous with villain, a reference to the evil black-hatted cowboys of Western films) and his team of three less evil sidekicks. Black Hat is trying to sell various evil inventions created by Dr. Flug and is desperate to fulfill his evil aspirations. However, things often end badly for him, as brilliant innovations tend to have small and often comical flaws."

The lore has nothing related to the Hell, but it still focuses on the evil side of the story. I love the character designs, very similar to HH. It's worth checking out, even more Latin animation!

The Good Place

A series already consolidated and finished. One of my favorites on Netflix!

Even though it's not exactly Heaven and Hell, the concept is very similar. but what stands out here is the philosophical debate about what is right and wrong, how to be a good person in a world marked by individualism, competition and exploitation so that a person can have the basics to survive? -neoliberalism cough cough-.

"Eleanor Shellstrop wakes up to discover that she has died and entered the afterlife. But when she is told by her mentor Michael that she is in the "Good Place" because of her good deeds, helping to get innocent people off death row, she realizes that a mistake has been made because the people They think she is someone else with the same name."

Question about existentialism, ethics and the meaning of life debated in a fun way! A quick comparison to Bojack Horseman, a series that I love. in The Good Place, the existentialism, life and death are treated in a much more optimistic and... beautiful way, while in Bojack it is pessimistic and heavy. the debates on human existence can have lighter conclusions - this is not a criticism of Bojack, just a different approach.

Guardians of the Mansion of Horror

This recommendation won't have a personal review because... I still need to watch it! but I saw so many people recommending it, saying that it has good LGBT+ representation that I thought it would be interesting to bring it here. If anyone has already watched it and wants to say something about it...

"Guardians of the Mansion of Horror follows friends Barney and Norma as they work at a theme park during the summer. The two take the night shift and are responsible for organizing the place while it is empty. What they didn't expect is that this fun place is actually an interdimensional portal to hell. Suddenly, several supernatural creatures appear to haunt the Earth and the two friends must join forces to stop them. To do this, they receive help from the talking dog, Pugsley."

Inside Job

Here we have the biggest injustice in the history of Netflix, the cancellation of this series! I brought it here because of their type of acidic and critical humor towards society - not that this criticism is present in HH-. An adult animation, with swear words and the same irreverent touch as HH, following the shadow side of society.

"A dysfunctional team working in a hidden government department is tasked with keeping conspiracies around the secret world. From complicated attacks to secret societies, anti-social technology genius Reagan Ridley will need to work in a place full of shapeshifting reptilians and psychic mushrooms, at the same time as she must deal with an unbalanced father, in order to achieve the dream she dreams of. promotion."

Emphasis to the animation itself and the character design. When it comes to other species, we have unique designs, they even resemble the design of demons in HH.

irreverent, intelligent and humorous. 🤌

Good Omens

It's almost a rule, if you watched Hazbin Hotel/Helluva Boss, you also watched Good Omens!

For those who have never given the series a chance, here are some reasons to watch it now: Inspired by Neil Gaiman's work - and approved by him! -!. It is focused entirely on this universe of Jewish/Christian characters - and it is possible to see how well they are studied! There are references that only those who have studied demology or the sacred writings of these religions will understand-

The first season has a wonderful rhythm with captivating characters - the second lacks this a little. The angel and devil couple are super charismatic and you root for them.

Watching some of the biblical events from the point of view of the questioning and sinister demon Crowley and the good lamb Aziraphale is wonderful!

[hellaversity]

Look, I can understand where people are coming from when they criticize the portryal of the female characters in Helluva Boss.

But extending that same criticism to Hazbin Hotel is where I draw the fucking line.

Hazbin literally has a female protagonist with her own independant goal, who has to work hard for it because people constantly belittle her ideas and beliefs, and eventually gets proven right when it works in the end. Charlie tried to do what was thought impossible, and accomplished it when Sir Pentious gets ascended to heaven. Her love interest has her own backstory before meeting Charlie, where she used to work for the same exorcists who are responsible for nearly driving Charlie's people to extinction and almost making her fail to redeem anyone at the hotel. Vaggie kept this a secret from Charlie since they met, and Charlie feels betrayed by Vaggie to the point of not feeling like she should trust her anymore until it gets resolved. Vaggie has more characterizarion in season 1 of Hazbin alone than Millie does in the entirety of Helluva Boss pre-Hell's Belle's.

Lute is one of the main antagonists. She contributed just as much to the genocide as Adam did, is openly bigoted like Adam, has more common sense than Adam, is the only exorcist with a name, is just as much of a threat to the hotel as Adam is and most of all she survives while he doesn't. Sera approved of the genocide, but felt guilty about it because Adam would've probably killed her or something, which Emily calls her out on regardless. Speaking of Emily, she joins Charlie in on calling heaven out for their hypocrisy and literally says she detests being treated like a child.

Velvette is no less evil than the other two Vees. She sells love potions (aka date rape drugs) and treats her employees cruelly just like they do. She also disrepected the other overlords without giving two shits. Carmilla wasn't having any of Velvette's BS, is protective of Zestial, literally killed an exorcist (despite angels being much more powerful than demons, so that's pretty impressive on it's own) to protect her daughters and figured out that Vaggie was a fallen angel just by knowing what her choice of weapon was. She encouraged Vaggie to fight for the whole hotel, not just for Charlie. Cherri Bomb has an interesting rivalry with Sir Pentious in the pilot that eventually grows into a healthy relationship, and she goes against Valentino just to help and comfort Angel Dust in the Addict music video. Sadly she doesn't do much after that, but at least she got to participate in fighting for the hotel in The Show Must Go On, so it's better than nothing I suppose.

Rosie is one of the few people who Alastor has a genuine friendship with. She played a big part in Charlie trying to give a speech to Cannibal Town, and encouraged her to trust Vaggie again. Mimzy, while I dislike her, is the whole reason why the plot of Dad Beat Dad even happened. She tried to use her friendship with Alastor to get herself out of trouble, so the episode techically wouldn't of happened without her. It's also telling that Alastor didn't eat her or try to kill her for screwing things up, since he's done just that to others for much less. Even Niffty, who's mostly just there for comic relief, is another character who Alastor gets along with. He may own her soul, but he's a lot nicer to her than he is to Husk, who he keeps on a chain and abuses in a not-so-different way that Valentino does to Angel Dust, only without SA involved. Niffty is also the one who kills Adam in the end, so there you go.

That's a BUNCH more than what can be said for most of the ladies in Helluva. (Most of whom I also like, but their writing really does leave something to be desired, though it does seem to be slightly improving with the Hell's Belles short and the promise of a Millie focused episode in Ghostfuckers.) For the record I don't think the writing for the female characters in HH is perfect by any means, but it's a far cry from being anywhere near as bad as HB like many antis claim it is. I think they just say that shit because HB takes place in the same universe as Hazbin and both shows were created by the same person, (aka the guilt by association fallacy) or they just think Vivzie can't do anything right no matter what she does.

[lightningbreath]

A RANT ABOUT HAZBIN HOTEL

You know, this show did a terrible job of making me "sympathize" with the Sinners.

And you know why? Because they didn't give me any reason to think that they're redeeming themselves.

Angel never has to face the consequences of the actions that landed him in Hell, his only problem is Valentino and drugs.

At no point is Sir Pentius questioned about the fact that he's a weapons manufacturer who profits from wars, no, his only problem is that he behaved like a "cartoon super villain".

I don't mind Adam carrying out the Exterminations, in fact, I'm glad to know that, even if it's just for one day, Adam is giving the sinners the punishment they deserve for being the scum of humanity. Aside from the day of the Extermination, Hell doesn't feel like Hell, there are no demons to make the sinners be punished, they have complete freedom to do whatever they want and they actively choose to be sinners and enjoy it. If it weren't for Valentino, Angel seems to enjoy Hell, doing shit and getting away with it. When we get to episode 6, and Emily has the nerve to call the Sinners "innocent souls" I swear I've never wanted to kill a character as much as I did at that moment.

I just thought: I don't want the Sinners to go to Heaven, after all, what about the victims of these sinners who are in Heaven? And what's the message?

Is it "You can be a shitty person and make other people's lives hell while you're alive without any problem, because when you die, just go to the Hazbin Hotel, cry a little, say how poor you are a victim of circumstances, sing a song and boom, you can go to Heaven without problems." ?

Oh, but you don't believe in second chances? No! Because I see the double standard here: if a mobster, a warlord, a slave-owning casino owner and a terrorist can be put in a position of "poor things who just want a second chance" then what's to stop a racist, a homophobe, a mustache-twister or a xenophobe from dancing the same dance if they behave the same way as Angel or Sir P? "Oh, it's just that these things are unforgivable", "Oh, but not all sinners are"...

So... what's the difference between Charlie and Heaven? Heaven has set limits on who can enter its domains and Charlie wants to set limits on who can "seek redemption".... how would that make Charlie any better than the "evil Heaven"?

I just want to ask one question: if Valentino, one day, came crying to Charlie's feet seeking redemption, should she allow him to live under the same roof as Angel? Ah, what a silly question, if Charlie doesn't have a problem with Alastor having Nifty and Husk as slaves, clearly this case wouldn't be a problem.

And the funny thing is seeing people from this fandom say "the people in Heaven had time to heal, they can't refuse to welcome the fishermen, otherwise I'll consider them the worst in the world🤬"... Yes, of course. The victims of murder, torture, war, xenophobia, SA, (etc) all of them "have had time to heal" and that's why they should be forced to live with people on the same level as their attackers.

Wow, how easy it is to be a sinner in HH, you live in a ""Hell"" that doesn't punish you for absolutely anything and you're still treated like an injustice by the fandom, which will always look for a justification for all the shit these characters do.

Oh, but this is a "morally gray" show, there is no "black and white morality", of course not.

[jollmaster]

Also, I would like to thank you for not adding any love lines between the main characters, because I think that this is not necessary in Hazbin

Almost every character has their own problems and things that they need to work with, and the most important problem in the show is redemption, heaven, angels, exorcists, and all that stuff. They clearly don't need any more problems with their possible lovers

Plus, they don't have to be in a relationship to show that they love each other. Literally like Alastor and Rosie, who are best friends and care about each other sincerely, but are not a couple (well, at least in the old canon, before the leaks)

thank 🫂 fully understand you, I didn't add love lines between the main characters because I'm tired that this often so overrated and being imposed where it not so nessesary

and absolutely agree that in HH case it's not a primary necessary thing! you are right to say, there are too much another problems, and love troubles, if something goes wrong, can add only new ones

becides, love not always reflected in plain romantic/sexual way: it can be patronage, care, friendship, simple family-like bonds

like for example, Angel isn't interested in Cherri physically, but adores her as a person and can rely on, but he still loves younger sister more, just because she's his family, blood and flesh; sir Pentious and Cherri moderate their enmity through common interests (bombs, powder, guns) and start to respect each other's intellect, even with such a huge age gap; Charlie admires Vaggie as more mature woman and respects her for resilience and strength; Husk cares for the younger ones because his life experience is bigger than theirs, etc etc

and about Alastor and Rosie I already said: let even mean and wild people to care about each other, but not to be in such a couple relationship as media often shows to us, love has many faces 🖤

[trashogram]

What are your thoughts on Charlie? Some friends find her to be their fav character, but I kinda think she's a little manipulative in a way 🫤 they say I'm Lucifer biased, but even I know he isn't perfect sooo

I think you’re right when you say she’s manipulative in a way — I think it’s in the way that a child can be manipulative to get what they want, rather than someone that does it intentionally while understanding the full ramifications of how they’re affecting others. Charlie wants to redeem Sinners, but her way of doing it is immature and degrading. She doesn’t treat her tenants or coworkers like grown adult people and expects them to cater to her whims, just not in an aggressive way.

She has good intentions but she’s spoiled and that overshadows everything. Whether or not she’ll develop past this as the series goes on? I can’t say.

I think Charlie is a missed opportunity. My assumption is that the creators chose to exaggerate her original optimistic personality because they thought it would make her a funnier character. I don’t think it did, but maybe the majority of HH’s audience does so it’s a moot point.

Charlie (like a lot of Hazbin characters, shockingly) was much better in the pilot. She was sincere but not overly childish, enthusiastic but not obnoxiously so and, although reluctant to use it at times, she had a backbone and didn’t take shit from others without putting up a fight. And when she fought, the audience had no expectation that there would be someone (like Lucifer) to catch her if she failed.

It doesn’t feel like Charlie has much to lose in the show nor does she have anything to prove, so she’s not compelling either. Yes, she is still trying to *prove* redemption is possible for Sinners in Hell, but the original premise emphasized that she was trying to demonstrate this for the sake of those in Hell rather than Heaven. I got the impression that she was trying to help damned souls for their sakes, because she cared about them as she saw them as her responsibility. And the only potentially selfish ambition on her end was to show her disbelieving parents that it could be done and that they were wrong about her ideas.

The show makes Heaven out to be ignorant and misguided at best and totally corrupt at worst. Charlie also doesn’t have a big connection to it beyond her surface-level goal (and Vaggie being an ex-exterminator but that felt like an afterthought in the show so I don’t see the point in humoring it here). I don’t know why the audience is supposed to care all that much about Charlie proving herself to them.

I see it like this: Why would I care about what terrible people think of me? They’re terrible, so why would I respect their opinions when I don’t agree with their actions, words, behaviors, beliefs, etc.?

[kaledya]

Hello again !

Oh okay I understand!

Thank you for the explanation! Things make sense in that type it follow more the show seasons development. I forgot that in your SS AU Luci and Charlie are in a bad place. It will help (Not me panicking because Constantine come sooner and I always plan a VERY slow burn romance between him and Lolicia. Ahhh. So excited. Anyway) The more important is that Lucifer and Serenity coming later. Heaven arc last. I get it !

I will take care of your advices 🌸 So greatest showman mini arc incoming let's go!

Ps : glad you like my drawings!🌸 Thank you even if its not the best. Promise I will try to not butcher Constantine and Serenity fanarts ahah

Have a nice day! -marquisev

Hİ!

And I'm really glad to know that I could explain it properly! I hope I could help!

And yes, they are on bad terms right now, generally because Lucifer can't put his pride aside and admitted his mistake, or because he thinks knew what was best for Charlie and saying her plan is Unreasonable and far from reality .He doesn't even let Charlie explain herself and is upset about the fight they had the last time they met. Charlie thinks,

"He won't listen to me anyway, why am I trying any harder?"

Lucifer, on the other hand, cannot go to his daughter and admit that she is wrong, again because of his pride.

(This idea is seriously a wip, I didn't think of that arc in detail ) but when Lucifer comes to the hotel, Alastor criticizes him as a father.(Because by this time, Alastor has been spending a lot of time with Charlie, and they even fight back to back at one point. He can understand Charlie's relationship with Lucifer from her behavior.)

Extra: (Their current reaction is not the same as in this post, I drew this post before I started writing my AU, Alastor does not try to make fun of Constantine in any way (he knows what will happen if he does, he logically does not want to push his luck).)

And after this encounter and some events in between And after a long and touching conversation between Lucifer and Charlie, Their relationship is getting better. In my mind, this scene reminds me of the scene between Joel and Ellie in Last of Us 2.

But they still love each other sincerely. Lucifer was in a bad mood due to Lilith's disappearance and this widened the gap between them.But if they sit down and talk, they won't have much of a problem with time.

OH MY GOD REALLY?? I'm seriously already excited about how you're going to write their interactions! And I have full confidence that you will write a great slow burn romance. I can't wait to see their dynamics.

And yes, Constantine arrives at a time similar to when Lucifer arrives in the series.

Yes!, but it's not too early, I don't have an exact timeline, but seriously important events are happening at the hotel, maybe Angel is getting rid of Val.After the people in the hotel really start to trust each other and show their character development.

The reason I think this is because Charlie invited her brother over to show him her progress.For this, there was a need for arcs in which the team would experience character development.

Yes, Serenity comes to the hotel after the hotel's case with the Vees and after a while, at the right time, she reveals her identity to Alastor .Lucifer arrives shortly after this event.After this there is a heaven arc and the planning is this after this event it's completely blank page, I really don't know what will happen next.

And as I said before, you don't have to follow what I wrote, be free. This is your story.

And believe me, I love your drawing style, I think you draw very well.

And I'm really excited for the next arc!

By the way, I read the latest episodes. It was very nice to read Husk and Lolicia's interactions and I find Charlie's activity very creative!

And Lolicia's new outfit has a really interesting and creative design I love it! And reading that you were inspired by Baldurs Gate 3 really surprised me and brought back memories.I take that outfit in House of Hope too and after wearing it, Gale's comment made me laugh a lot😂

[dididi11]

I dont plan to get back into HH, but here are some things that have triggered me and that ik sure alot of people can agree on:

1. I feel like Charlie's idea of redemption can be seen through alot of perspectives. HOWEVER- what she specifically wants is to redeem EVERY soul. Now there's a reason to why hell exists, it's made for people who have done terrible things in their life, which is why they get banished to Hell in the first place. We may not know when a soul is actually pure enough to get redeemed- BUT we do know what you would have to be to end up in Hell. Murderers, RÆpists, Cannibals, Paedophiles- just all of those in the horrible category most definitely DON'T deserve a second chance. And even if they somehow did get redeemed, how would the victims in Heaven feel? Heaven is the place where they're supposed to feel safe- So how the hell do you expect to put them in the same place together without any conflicts? If you truly want to get the right people into Heaven, then you should background check every single Sinner throughly.

2. Adam- We all love love him and hate him, but there is one person to blame for when it comes to his Character: Vivziepop. I feel like she used the "Annoying Villain who doesn't care about anything that the protagonist has to say and is just downright badly written" trope way to often. He could've had so much potential to be a good written Character that would actually explain to Charlie why sinners just can't be redeemed. It just felt unnecessary to only let him be a douchebag, sing his song (which was banger don't get me wrong-) and shorten their time by 6 months for the next extermination to cause Charlie another COMPLETELY unnecessary problem. And all that for NO reason, "Yeah, but that's because he's a douch-" And that's exactly my point, why waste your time and effort on a basic ahh character if he's going to be a just an ordinary douche anyway? The first Season would've been so much more interesting if we actually had a logical explanation to why others are against of Charlie's idea. But no, instead all we get is "ahahaha, Sinners are stupid. They deserve Hell." Also why the Hell did Adam shorten the time for the extermination by 6 months?? It felt so unnecessary, They probably felt like the first Season would've been boring without any Action- and I'm pretty sure they could've made a different Scene that was also Epic without it not making sense.

2. ADAM AGAIN- I don't want this to be just about Adam, but since he is dead (BY FUCKING NIFFTY I HATE HER) and maybe wont come back- since we don't know if he'll get respawned..what kind of punishment will Lucifer specifically receive? To clarify things, Lucifer had disobeyed the rules of Heaven and Hell, he helped his daughter and her friends kill off half of the exorcists and even threatened them to retreat. And the worst part of all of this is that he would've killed Adam if Charlie hadn't stopped him. Even though Adam was killed by NIFFTY, I'm pretty sure the blame would be put on Lucifer instead of some Sinner. So what will happen if they try to communicate with Heaven again? They literally killed the first human of mankind created by God himself. Honestly at that point it would be a pretty huge deal and Charlie's redemption idea wouldn't even be looked into.

2. Emily and Charlie- I hate how none of the Characters genuinely understand the ACTUAL purpose of the extermination. It's to prevent Hell from gaining to much power, that's why they need to make sure to kill off half of the population. It was never about the redemption of Sinners, so Charlie shouldn't even think about canceling off the extermination. I also get why Emily is mad at Sera for lying to her, but the fact that she immediately joined Charlie's side without even thinking trough the entire thing is just downright dumb.

3. I feel like there's more to talk about, I just don't know what.

[sapphic-agent]

I'M BACK WITH MY HAZBIN HOTEL BS!

I think one way Vaggie could be saved as a character is if in one of the later seasons she ventures through Hell to find other Fallen Angels like herself and wants to either help them get redeemed or find a place in Hell.

This would provide Vaggie the character growth she desperately needs AND would help give her an identity outside of Charlie.

Plus it's super unrealistic that Vaggie seems to be the ONLY Fallen Angel in Hell when there could clearly be more.

I've actually wondered whether Vaggie can really be counted as Fallen before.

When Lucifer Fell, it was dictated by Heaven. It's unclear as to who was behind it (God himself, probably, or Lucifer's other siblings if they exist in HH), but we see him and Lilith banished. He Fell because he brought sin and evil onto Earth, disobeying Heaven's will.

In comparison, Vaggie's banishment to Hell is a lot different. Her wings were ripped off (interesting to note that Lucifer still has his) and she was abandoned and outcast by the Exterminators.

I'm going to say something crazy and make the claim that Vaggie never actually Fell. I just feel like Adam doesn't have the authority to do so. And if she really was Fallen, could he really give her a place back in Heaven like he offered to do so?

Also, Vaggie still bleeds gold blood. Lucifer doesn't bleed, so it's hard to compare to him, but I'm assuming his has been red since he Fell. That's just speculation on my part.

I think the Exterminators just abandoned Vaggie in Hell, I don't think she's an actual Fallen Angel.

(Viv or any other crew members might have confirmed that she did and I'm wrong, in that case disregard this)

BUT ANYWAY I got off track.

I agree! It would be nice to see Vaggie find Fallen Angels and either find a place for them at the hotel or reflect on how they've adjusted to life in Hell. Some people think Carmilla is one, which is a theory I actually like a lot. Unlike the other Overlords she seems less bloodthirsty and has more penchant for kindness (I know Rosie). It would also explain why she made an Angelic Weapon for herself and knew the Angels' weakness (fighting like they can't get hurt).

She also just looks less like a demon, I guess. Now that I'm looking at her, she actually shares more similarities with Vaggie and Lute than any other demon in Hell. The grayish skin, the white hair. Even their face shapes seem a bit similar. But hey, that's just a theory, a film theory.

This would make her interactions with Vaggie a lot more meaningful