#But there's a lot that bothers me about the way that's being discussed in fandom

[dogsliampaynedoesntinstagram]

I was thiking about how you the thing that gives gemma a platform is also what limits her..

and in the light of such a tragic accident.. its just taken such a sinister turn in my mind.

because i think its plain as daylight that one fandom that has had instense hatred for liam as their fav pet punching bag is.. harries. ( they do it for louis too, but i give up on that. its partially encouraged by some people. so idk)

but with gemma's mental health spiel, she has to blindly ignore their worst behavior, because then who will buy her bits and trinkets..

she cant ever call them out. and how sad is that.

Anon - this approach to Liam's death really bothers me. I acknowledge that this is probably one way of you processing a whole bunch of complicated feelings. But I think dealing with complicated feelings by deciding who else was wrong can do harm. I would really encourage people who are having those thoughts and feelings to understand that it's a choice whether or not to express them.

I think fandom is very bad at proportionality. Fans are likely to massively overstate the importance of other fans and also the people they are fans of - you do that twice over here.

First you assume that the response of 'Harries' as a group has made a difference to Liam. This definitely overstates the importance of 'Harries' in the wider ecosphere of people who talk shit on line. Even if no Harry fan had talked about Liam in the last four years, there would be more nasty comments about Liam than he could ever read. (Once anyone gets to a certain level of attention - there are always more nasty comments about them than they could ever read.

But I think it's very easy to overstate the role of things people were saying on-line in Liam's distress. It was a part of what was going on, but just a part and I strongly suspect not the most important. I think distress - and dysfunctional responses to distress - cause people to pay a lot of attention to the things that are being said about them on-line - as much as the other way round.

Then you mention Gemma Styles - who is no more responsible for the mental health of someone her brother was close to and has a shared history with than you or I would be for the mental health of someone our brothers were close to and have a history with.

My point is that Gemma has an audience and is constrained in saying things of substance that she would want to say because of how that audience would react. I never imagined that she should or would want to talk about Liam - or have anything interesting to say.

The idea that Gemma Styles isn't talking about what Harries say about Liam Payne, because of her need to sell books - is an absurd one that only makes sense within a fandom logic that treats both Harries and Liam Payne as the centre of the universe.

It feels harsh to say it in this moment, but I think in some ways its just as important as it ever was. Just because something is very important to us, does not mean we are important to them, nor that either us or the important thing will matter to other people.

[instantpansies]

life is hard for us oz fans who are only meh about wicked. have half a meme.

[hexelein]

Everytime someone hc the stardew valley bachelors and bachlerottes as monosexual or uses the word "playersexual" a fairy dies

[babacontainsmultitudes]

[just venting a bit into the void you understand you understand 😌] Lately I've been feeling very caught between "I have a lot of thoughts on Sparrow and Normal and all that with the ending and teen talk and feel like I need to get them out and voice them for my own piece of mind and resolution" and "I am lacking the strength and energy to actually sit down and write it all out and kind of really just want to fully move on to other things (AUs, fics, anything else)" but my brain can't seem to commit to either and that's quite frustrating cause it's just left me very restless. *Sigh*. Idk! Just needed to complain about that a bit ig, it's silly but this is what has been ailing me as of late.

[krakensdottir]

Crowley and Aziraphale canonically do not have sex organs. There is no indication that they have ever experienced sex or have a desire to.

And apparently... people do not like this. They are resistant to accepting it in a way that, as an asexual, it's hard not to take personally.

But I don't really think it's personal. I think it's just that allosexual thinking is so prevalent, people default to 'but why WOULDN'T they?' instead of 'why WOULD they?' Even though the latter question makes a lot more sense in this context. Allosexual thinking has us expecting that love = sex, and that any being who enjoys good food or music or other Earthly pleasures must also want to try it. Even though many real human people enjoy those pleasures and have no desire for sex at all. Why wouldn't these ethereal beings be like us in that regard?

And look, I've been in enough fandoms by now not to be surprised by any of this. What DO you do with a ship if not have them fuck? That's always the end goal, right? But there's a fine line between fantasizing (always fine) and actually expecting reality - or canon - to work that way. Canonically, we have a sexless romantic relationship that does not, by any sort of default, have to turn into a sexual one to be valid. That's amazing. That almost never happens. But if you went by fan discussions, you probably wouldn't even realize that was the case.

The thing is... aphobia doesn't always look like hatred, or ridicule. Sometimes it looks like erasure. Sometimes it looks like a persistent tendency to sexualize the sexless in order to make it more interesting, or palatable, or to make the relationship 'complete'. It's not on purpose, like that. It's cultural normalcy talking. None of us are untouched by it, and it's easy not to realize.

I don't think I'm coming to a point here. I'd just like if fan discussions weren't always overrun by allosexual expectations. But I also don't really expect it to lead to a lot of self-reflection. I mean, it's fandom. It's whatever. It shouldn't even bother me. But apparently it does, so I wanted to talk about it. And put it out there in case, perhaps, anyone else has been sitting on these feelings and would like to vent.

[bunnwich]

It's Supposed to Be Fun

(a letter to my friends in the twst fandom)

I've been wanting to make this post for a while and these thoughts may seem scattered but I’m gonna try to express them. 

Lately, I have seen many friends and moots that either are leaving the fandom or feel guilty over not having posted in a while or losing interest in twst. On the other side, I also have friends being harassed.

This a reminder to remember why you joined this community to begin with. I know that keeping up with the fast-moving pace of fandom and comparing ourselves to others, can skew our perspective on these things.

It’s supposed to be fun. 

Why do we post art or write? Sure, partly for recognition, there's no denying that. But, why do we create, I mean really? For enjoyment. Not for others, not to be “popular” FOR JOY.

So, whether you’re dealing with people critiquing you or feeling guilty about not creating. My question is this: Why waste so much of your time on something that makes you miserable?

Did it stop being fun? Why? Haters? Loss of interest?

To my friends who feel guilty for not creating and not sure if they lost interest in twst: 

Don’t feel guilty. At one time, the creation of your twst content was natural. It's what you did for fun with friends or for yourself. Revisit that mindset and think - if creating twst content now will bring that same joy it did before.

If the answer is no, then maybe it’s time to pivot. It’s okay for interests to fade. It doesn’t mean that time, memories, or the friends you made are lost. Connect with your friends, we will understand! We still love you! It's not a race there's no time limit, just pick up were you want to. Draw fanart of old events or OCs.

To my friends who have been harassed: 

I say this with sincerity…. People who harass others over fictional characters are fucking losers.

Like… There’s no other eloquent way to encapsulate it. I’m starting to not care for the reason anymore - If you harass or be shady to others over a ship or fictional character. CONGRATS! YOU ARE A LOSER.

We all join fandoms as a hobby, for fun. We’re all just kids in the sandbox playing pretend again… and if you are the type of person to go up just to “kick the doll out of someone’s hand" or make commentary on how “their way of playing is wrong." You’re a loser. I have a life outside of twst, we all do. Someone saying my ship is wrong or cringe is just so laughable to me. We have to make fun of these people more for being so goddamn lame.

Imagine being so unhappy that when you see someone having fun you HAVE to comment on it. By all means, if it gets you through the day...talk shit to close friends or even post about it on your own blog. (THAT WAS ALWAYS ALLOWED.) Don't bother creators directly. Don't be a loser. I sure see tolerance leave people’s bodies when they see a fandom opinion they don't like. (And this is coming from someone who has lots of opinions on these things! But that's why I always put the disclaimers that, hey this is just MY opinion.)

Discussion is one thing, unhelpful comments are another. We shouldn’t give these people the time of day. Curate your online space. Yes, when you post things online you are subjecting yourself to scrutiny. But, we as creators need to stop letting these people have power over us. Period. We do this for free!! FOR FUN. The best thing you can do is create shamelessly.

Delete weird replies, block whoever you need to do to rid yourself of these people who have nothing better to do. Keep your peace. It’s supposed to be for fun. You don’t owe anyone a response.

The twst fandom is like a little family to me and I guess I feel protective over the people in it?  I have made many friends and memories because I joined it. And even dispite a handful of the negative experiences (AKA: A couple of “losers" that I’ve had to deal with.) I’ll always look fondly back on this time.

The key for me has always been to just…create for myself. I originally made bunnwich for me and one friend to make fun little arts about our Yuu’s and now I get to have lots of friends to share it with! I’ve transitioned from an OC blog to probably more of an Oc x Canon blog…but I don’t care tbh. I just…draw what I feel like. I know there are people who probably dislike me for that or feel strange about my content and that’s fine. I’m still gonna keep drawing it, loser.  

And I just want you guys to do the same, twst or not.

I can’t forget that all my followers and friends are a bonus, if I had never joined tumblr I’d still be drawing the silly shit I draw in peace. And while yes, I do want to grow as an artist and sell more merch and keep growing... I can’t forget my initial excitement for this silly little game. I like to talk about it. I like to write about it. It inspires me.

It’s supposed to be fun. Please remember that. I know it can be discouraging to have others being shitty to you. Or going through a creative drought. But, try not to let this stop you from creating what you love.

[nohaijiachi]

Why I Think The Fandom Has Been Doing Aziraphale Dirty Ever Since Season 1 And It's Only Gotten Worse With Season 2 And It's Killing Me Inside

Before we get into the subject matter of the title let me preface a couple of things:

1- All that will follow is, big surprise, my opinion and my interpretation of this character. Do I think I am The One And Only Who Gets The Blorbo Right and that my ideas are 100% the way the author(s) intended to convey the character? No.

More likely than not the way I see Aziraphale could be intensely different from the way Authorman sees him, or Actorman sees him, and I don't think that my interpretation is necessarily any more correct than anybody's else.

That said, if I also did not think that I am, in fact, correct on a certain level, I wouldn't have bothered forming such a thought out opinion of Aziraphale in the first place, nor would be sitting here, writing this post that I can already tell is going to be entirely too long and might probably ruffle some feathers.

So I'll be writing the rest of this post with the caveat that I while I do think my interpretation correct, I'm also not trying to change anybody's mind nor to discredit anybody's else interpretation of Aziraphale. We can sit here in the sandpit and hold different opinions and still be able to build sandcastles together, it really isn't that deep at the end of the day; I can assure you, I'm not here to fight nor cause fights with this one.

2- With the above point, comes also the fact that I won't bother continuously saying "In my opinion" for the rest of this post. You already know that. So, if something will come across as a bit caustic, do know that it is very much tongue in cheek and I am poking a bit of fun at general fannish habits that I am also very much quote-unquoute 'guilty' of having partaken into, and will partake into again plenty of times in the future, I'm sure.

So, with that: Here's Why I Think The Fandom Has Been Doing Aziraphale Dirty Ever Since Season 1 And It's Only Gotten Worse With Season 2 And It's Killing Me Inside

A large part of the people comprising this fandom prefers Crowley. There, I said it.

This fandom's preference blatantly skews toward Crowley. Can we admit that openly? Let's admit that openly.

To be clear, this isn't meant to be an accusation or recrimination or any other -ation you can think of, I am merely stating matter-of-factly a phenomena I've observed in the last four years.

It is also not a wrong nor bad thing in any way, shape or form. I adore Crowley myself. I love them both so much it's unreal.

But I started with that because I think it is very much a symptom of the fact that a lot of people don't get Aziraphale.

I remember back with S1 there had been plenty of times when I found myself reading discussions and opinion exchanges about Aziraphale and Crowley, their dynamics, all the things that went unsaid behind the things that were said, and found myself genuinely surprised by seeing how some people interpreted certain moments wildly different from how I personally saw them.

I look back at that and I think "Oh, sweet summer child". Nothing could have prepared me from the onslaught of takes about Aziraphale that make me go "Good lord, what???" in the wake of S2, and the infamous Last Fifteen.

Now because I don't want to be pointing fingers at specific things and risk upsetting somebody more than I already am by being open in admitting that, guys, yes, some of the takes y'all have been sharing make me go "Yikes(tm)", I'll move on the interesting part and what I would actually love to discuss, aka cracking Aziraphale's head open and see what that actual fuck is going on in there.

Another preface: Because this duo is intrinsically linked and woven together it is downright impossible to only focus on Aziraphale without also mentioning Crowley, so... Let me circle back to our fav demon bae for a sec, here.

I think the reason why it seems that a larger part of the fandom favors Crowley is because I feel like Crowley is a much easier character to grasp. He is very open in his thoughts and feelings, at any given moment us, the audience, have a much easier time watching a scene and sort of ruminating in the back of our heads about Crowley's motivations for saying the things he says and doing the things he does.

That isn't to say Crowley is a less complex character than Aziraphale. They are very much equally complex and multifaceted individuals with their strengths and weaknesses, their issues and the way they each cope with them, how differently they approach their existence and so on and so forth.

But whereas Crowley as a character presents itself with a certain dynamism and a far more outward openness about his complexity, Aziraphale does the exact opposite; we can say Aziraphale is downright hermetic about it.

For us, the audience, he presents a challenge that requires a good deal of thought being put into him to see over the facade he presents at a more superficial level; he requires time and effort to fully dismantle him in our minds to try and see what makes him thick (other than his thighs), and thus I think it is entirely natural that more people latch on the far easier to identify-with, and relate-to, Crowley.

And that is the inevitable consequence of everything that makes Aziraphale... Well, Aziraphale.

So, where to start? Let's try and jot down what Aziraphale truly is at his core.

He is a contradiction.

This man-shaped being is a walking contradiction, constantly existing in a state of being coated in three thousand layers of misdirection and obfuscation and double thinking.

Why is that? Well. He's an angel.

Aziraphale loves being an angel. It is a tenet of his entire existence and something he cherishes. He wants, so very much, to be his ideal of what a good angel is: An entity who is kind and loving and understanding and forgiving.

Of course us, the audience, know that is utter bullshit, because we know angels can be individuals just as complex as the humans Aziraphale loves so much, with all their inherent flaws and capability for cruelty. And, on a certain level, Aziraphale knows that too.

So there we have it, one element of contradiction: Aziraphale wants to think that angels are always Good and Righteous and Never Wrong; Aziraphale knows that angels aren't, in fact, always Good and Righteous and, by god, can they make plenty of mistakes, too.

What else? How about Aziraphale sitting there, being in love with a demon, fully knowing that at the end of the day demons really ain't that different from angels, and also desperately hanging onto the concept of Good vs Bad.

And he sits there, existing with these two contrasting idea equally taking space in his mind, neither side ever capable of taking over the other.

What else do we have? Aziraphale loves God and wants so hard to believe in Her love for humanity and Her ineffable plan, and Aziraphale also time and again does things that very blatantly go against Her will, lies to Her face, and Doubts. He Doubts, a lot, and that requires the capital letter because those Doubts are what spur him in going against everything he's ever told to believe in order to do the right thing.

Aziraphale's very existence is a constant push-and-pull of things he wants to believe and things he knows are real; things he's told to do and things he wants to do. That's how we get "My side" and "there's a bit of good in you" and "you are the bad guys".

And nothing he's lived through has managed to break him out of this unhealthy way of existing quite yet; that's why he acts the way we see him act in the Edinburgh flashback in S2, or at the start of S1 when Crowley has to ease Aziraphale into the idea of trying to stop Armageddon with the usual song and dance of "temptation" and "plausible deniability" and "you'd be thwarting me", even though from the start we can tell there's a little part of Aziraphale who is clearly not at ease with the idea of the end of the world, and once he's been given 'permission' by Crowley nudging him, he is all the way in with the whole saving the world business, not take-backsies.

Both the moments I mentioned here are very important for different reasons, but of the two is very much the Edinburgh flashback that gets a lot more flack by the fandom and is blatantly misunderstood, which I think is the inevitable consequence of that minisode immediately following the glorious, beautiful, heartbreaking piece of art that is the "A companion to owls" minisode.

I've seen a lot of people lamenting that Aziraphale acts obnoxiously in the Edinburgh flashback and, yeah. He does. But I feel like the fact that we are seeing this after watching Aziraphale struggle his way through saving Job's children, even being willing to go to Hell for it, is a though act to follow and probably soured Edinburgh-Aziraphale for a lot of people, made them think that the character had regressed instead of progressing.

But, see, the way he acts is wholly congruous with who Aziraphale is and has always been and keeps being up to the very end of S2. Yes, even after what he does for Job's children.

If you get down to it, Aziraphale had been ready to give up and let the children die, in episode 2. For a brief moment, after Crowley told him he 'longed to destroy the blameless children', Aziraphale was walking away, having tried all he thought he could try to do to stop this senseless act. That was until Crowley tested him by making the crows bleat, cuing Aziraphale to the fact that his impression of Crowley wasn't wrong, and the he could count on him to do the right thing.

To be clear, I don't want to undermine Aziraphale's action by only giving the credit to Crowley but... It is, also, only thanks to Crowley cajoling him and giving him the right excuses, that Aziraphale feels safe in doing what he's always wanted to do all along.

He'd wanted to save Job's children, and thought he couldn't until Crowley threw him that hell of a lifesaver. He wanted to save the world and thought he couldn't until Crowley nudged him on the path of plausible deniability.

He wanted to save Elspeth's eternal soul, blinding himself to the hardships she'd have to endure in her not-eternal life, and was smacked right in the face by the reality of human suffering multiple times.

The way Aziraphale acts in that flashback can't be a regression, because there never was a progression in the first place: He'd always walked the line between Heaven's and God's will and his own, personal morality and sense of justice.

By all means, if we look at Uz-Aziraphale and modern-day-Aziraphale at the start of S1, his reticence about the whole saving the world business should, by all means, appear as a regression as well. You mean to tell me that he'd been ready to become a demon for the sake of three mortal children, and then suddenly a handful of thousands years later when faced with the prospect of the whole world going up in flames he'd just be all like "Heaven will triumph over Hell and it will be all rather lovely"? Like, fuck off, Aziraphale, you lying double-thinker, you (/pos)

Aziraphale constantly exist while being at war with himself. Circumstances have allowed him to rebel the will of Heaven and God more or less safely time and again, but he never quite managed to break free entirely. He'd always ended up being reeled back in, being fed the party lines, being made to feel shame for his independent thinking, until it all becomes too much and he is forced to step back from that freedom he'd been inches away from grasping.

Back and forth, back and forth, never stopping.

And all of this, all of what he is, makes it so hard for us, the audience, to truly see him. To truly grasp him. To truly watch any given scene with him and figure out what he might be thinking or feeling.

To understand Aziraphale is to understand what he is not saying when he says something, which is a good deal harder to do than it is to understand and relate to a character like Crowley, who very much revel in saying exactly whatever the heck he thinks whenever he damn well pleases.

All those layers of obfuscation and misdirection and double thinking that Aziraphale coats himself in are as much an armor that makes it harder for the audience to understand him as they are his very own downfall because, good lord, if you exist like that, if you exist forced to keep things hidden from yourself, well... It's inevitable that at some point you are going to stumble into pitfalls of your own making.

And I love him for it.

So, there? I hope I managed to explain something with this post, and that it wasn't just the rambling of someone who spends way too much time thinking about her blorbos. To be clear, I don't think people who haven't spent as much time as me trying to dissect and better understand Aziraphale's character are like, dumber than me or anything. It's just that this pair of angelic-demonic blorbos take too much real estate in my mind, lol.

Feel free to let me know your opinion and if you think I am wildly off mark and my Take Is Bad. I might answer, I might not, it all depends on time and my mood ◝(ᵔᵕᵔ)◜

[skepticalcatfrog]

Kerch, Ghezenism, and the Van Eck Family

The title pretty much sums it up. This is a rather extensive analysis, and to be honest with you all it is 2,500+ words. So get into this absolute beast at your own risk!

~~~

From my experience in this fandom, I've seen it discussed very frequently how important religion is in the Grishaverse. Not only is it very deeply developed, to the point where many of the different countries have unique beliefs - which I'm not sure is seen very often in newer literature - but the various religious systems are also deeply important to many major characters, such as Matthias and Inej. However, one aspect of Grishaverse religions that seems to be overlooked somewhat often is the Kerch religion of Ghezenism. This may just be me, but I have a lot of thoughts on it. A big reason for that is that Wylan is, and always has been, my favorite character, and the culture surrounding Ghezen is actually a very important part of his character for many reasons. When you look into it in the way that I have, you discover that there are a lot of peculiar aspects of Ghezenism that make it stand out, as well as many ties that it has to major aspects of the story.

Right away, one thing that makes Kerch religion different from the others is how deeply connected to the economy it is. So much so that a lot of aspects of the two subjects are one and the same. Given that Ketterdam is a city largely fueled by commerce, it makes sense that Ghezenism would heavily tie into Kerch culture as well. Symbols of Ghezen can be found in many places throughout the city, even beyond the Church of Barter. A very good example of this is Vellgeluk, the island where the Crows meet Van Eck expecting to get their reward from the Ice Court heist: “Smugglers called it Vellgeluk, “good luck,” because of the paintings still visible around the base of what would have been the obelisk tower: golden circles meant to represent coins, symbols of favor from Ghezen, the god of industry and commerce,” (Six of Crows, Chapter 44). This just goes to show how many people in Ketterdam, and the wider country of Kerch as well, put their faith in Ghezen. Vellgeluk is a chosen place for smugglers to do business, specifically because favors of Ghezen are still present there. 

Another interesting part of that passage is the fact that Ghezen is referred to as the god of industry and commerce. Kerch may have other gods, but as far as I can remember - and I may be wrong, but I don't think I am - we never hear about any of them. A similar situation can be found in Fjerda, where Djel is specifically the god of life, implying the existence of other gods. In Fjerda, it is very clear that Djel is mainly what they base their culture and belief system around. This makes perfect sense for a god of life, but isn't Ketterdam’s situation a bit more unusual? The most frequently discussed god, Ghezen, represents industry. We can assume Ghezen is the primary god within the Kerch religious system. Not to mention that their largest church is called the Church of Barter, barter obviously being a term that has much to do with economics. Ketterdam, if not the entire country of Kerch, seems to have no real concept of the separation of church and state. They quite literally hold auctions inside of the church; the auctioning of Kuwei is not a singular event.

The impacts of religion can also be seen in the culture and behavior of the people of Kerch, as seen in a brief section of Crooked Kingdom. “Kerch women—even the wealthy ones—didn’t bother with anything as frivolous as embroidery or needlepoint. Ghezen was better served by tasks that benefited the household,” (Crooked Kingdom, Chapter 14). Obviously, things like this are much more typical of religion. But I would argue that even this holds traces of the same values expressed by the connection between Ghezenism and the economy. It is specifically mentioned here that Kerch women are encouraged to participate in tasks that will “benefit the household”. This displays one of the very prominent aspects of the Ghezenite religion, which is that one of the most important things a person can do is be productive, and create a prosperous life for themselves and their family.

In addition to direct ties between Ghezenism and the Kerch economy, occasionally the legal system is put into the mix as well. While considering what consequences his father might face after the events of the auction, Wylan reveals this piece of information: “Knowingly entering into a false contract for the purpose of subverting the market wasn’t just illegal, it was considered blasphemy, a blight on the works of Ghezen, and the penalties were harsh,” (Crooked Kingdom, Chapter 41). Essentially what he means by this is that not only is tampering with the economy against the law, but it is also heavily frowned upon in a religious sense, and anyone who does so will face punishment from both sides. This is extremely unique, even within the Grishaverse. This single sentence also reveals another very interesting thing about Kerch society. The market, as it exists in Ketterdam, is believed to be a creation of god - it is referred to here as being a part of the “works of Ghezen”. That, more than anything, is concrete proof of just how interconnected the economy of Kerch is with its primary religion. This also means that committing a crime such as Van Eck did isn't simply illegal (which we can assume he has no issues with), it is also an act that goes against his own religion. But stop to consider for a moment: does he really have a problem with that either?

There are numerous examples throughout both books of Van Eck blatantly abusing the values of his own religion. On its own, the teachings of Ghezenism aren't inherently bad. After all, things such as tampering with the market for your own gain are actively discouraged using the threat of blasphemy, which I'd say is generally beneficial. The issue, however, arises when Van Eck in particular attempts to twist some of these values in order to justify his own actions. If there is one single quote from the duology that exemplifies this, it would be this one: “Ghezen shows his favor to those who are deserving, to those who build cities, not the rats who eat away at their foundations. He has blessed me and my dealings. You will perish, and I will prosper. That is Ghezen’s will,” (Six of Crows, Chapter 45). Van Eck openly believes that, since he is a member of the upper class, he is somehow more deserving of a blessing. He is insistent that “Ghezen's will”, or what he interprets as what Ghezen wishes for him to do, is to trample others in order to further his own success. 

It doesn't matter to him who stands in his way, and it never will, because his goal is only to make himself more wealthy; he simply hides this behind a thin veil of piety. This motivation is especially clear when he is speaking to Inej while he is holding her captive. “When I leave this world, the greatest shipping empire ever known will remain, an engine of wealth, a tribute to Ghezen and a sign of his favor. Who will remember a girl like you, Miss Ghafa? What will you and Kaz Brekker leave behind but corpses to be burned on the Reaper’s Barge?” (Crooked Kingdom, Chapter 7). He frames people less fortunate than him - in this case Kaz and Inej - as forgettable and unimportant. The only thing he considers truly important is wealth, which he equates to power. He even references Ghezen here, claiming again that all of his actions, as well as his empire and legacy, are meant to show his dedication to his religion. He also claims that his ability to attain this level of success is a sign that Ghezen favors him. That in particular is a display of his extremely warped view of Ghezenism. The truth is that his success can only be attributed to his unethical actions, but the fact that he claims it is due to Ghezen's favor means that he will never be able to be convinced that he is wrong. He has what he believes to be an airtight justification.

His classism is also extremely evident, while indirectly, in an exchange between Kaz and Wylan earlier on in Crooked Kingdom. ““Your father much for charity?” “No. He tithes to Ghezen, but he says charity robs men of the chance at honest labor,”” (Crooked Kingdom, Chapter 2). This shows that Van Eck is very protective over his wealth. Which, quite frankly, is more likely than not the exact opposite of what Ghezenism is intended to promote. Based on what we are shown from an outside perspective, it seems as though one of the main aspects of Ghezenism is to create a prosperous economy for everyone. However, what Van Eck seems to believe is that he is intended to simply accumulate as much wealth as he possibly can, and keep it all for himself.

It is incredibly clear that Van Eck doesn't care about the well-being of anyone other than himself when it comes down to it. It could be argued that he cares for Alys, and will care for their child when it is born, but this simply cannot be proven. Just look at the exact mirror of this situation: Marya and Wylan. Wylan states about his parents, “I think he really loved her. They fought all the time, sometimes about me, but I remember them laughing a lot together too,” (Crooked Kingdom, Chapter 14). If we are to believe that this is true, and Van Eck truly did love Marya, that doesn't change the fact that he didn't hesitate to send her away as soon as he discovered that Wylan couldn't read or write. There is no evidence to say that he wouldn't do the same to Alys, under similar circumstances. 

And, of course, this all leads back to the matter of Wylan. When Van Eck decided that Wylan wouldn't be useful to him, he stopped caring about him very quickly. Near the end of Six of Crows, we hear more of the specifics on Van Eck's opinion of Wylan. “I have hired the best tutors from every corner of the world. I’ve tried specialists, tonics, beatings, hypnotism. But he refused to be taught. I finally had to accept that Ghezen saw fit to curse me with a moron for a child. Wylan is a boy who will never grow to be a man. He is a disgrace to my house,” (Six of Crows, Chapter 45). Van Eck believes that Wylan is a curse from Ghezen, purely because he thinks that Wylan will be incapable of producing profits for their business. This is perhaps one of the most egregious examples of his blatant abuse of his own religion, because he is entirely willing to abandon and even murder his own son in order to fulfill his goals, which he claims is all Ghezen's will.

There is no feasible way Wylan would be able to grow up being raised by Van Eck, and not be affected by his religious ideas in some way. In fact, there is evidence contained in the text that proves this rather thoroughly. There are even certain things that have already been cited within this analysis that can be circled back to, such as the quote just above. This quote exemplifies the sort of treatment Wylan was subjected to while growing up. This is mostly speculation, but it's safe to assume he was told at a very young age that his own father considered him a punishment from god. That is objectively terrible, and we know that by the age of eight his father was his only parent. The psychological impacts that that would have on a child that young are unimaginable. 

Additionally, we can return to this quote from Crooked Kingdom: “When I leave this world, the greatest shipping empire ever known will remain, an engine of wealth, a tribute to Ghezen and a sign of his favor. Who will remember a girl like you, Miss Ghafa? What will you and Kaz Brekker leave behind but corpses to be burned on the Reaper’s Barge?” (Crooked Kingdom, Chapter 7). While Van Eck is not talking to Wylan here, and Wylan isn't even present at the time, this passage still indirectly displays Van Eck's feelings about Wylan. Here he is expressing the fact that he maintains that if a person is not able to create wealth and prosperity for themselves, they are essentially useless. As we know from the previous example, he believes this of Wylan as well.

It is evident that Wylan was taught Ghezenite values from a young age. While examining the exterior of the Church of Barter, his thoughts include this: “He didn’t need to be able to read the words engraved over the arch. He’d heard his father repeat them countless times. Enjent, Voorhent, Almhent. Industry, Integrity, Prosperity,” (Crooked Kingdom, Chapter 31). This is confirmation that Van Eck frequently encouraged Wylan to think about these values, and it can be inferred that it likely wasn't in a particularly positive manner. Industry, integrity, and prosperity are clearly the three main ideals of this religion, and we can easily be led to the conclusion that Van Eck is certain his son is capable of none of them.

It is also suggested that Wylan may even associate his father's disapproval with religion subconsciously as well. A good example of this is in Crooked Kingdom, after Wylan is taken to the Church of Barter. “Van Eck shook his head. “Every time I think you cannot disappoint me further, you prove me wrong.” They were in a small chapel topped by a dome. The oil paintings on the wall featured battle scenes and piles of armaments,” (Crooked Kingdom, Chapter 31). While this is also simply meant to provide the reader with a description of the environment, the juxtaposition between the two halves of this passage cannot be an accident. What we can observe here is that after Van Eck once again expresses his ever-present disappointment with Wylan, emphasis is immediately put on the fact that they are in the church. This, along with the other passages listed, creates a clear link between Wylan's negative relationship with his father and the effects that their shared religion has had on it.

What I consider to be one of the most important quotes for this subject, despite also being the shortest one used, comes near the end of Six of Crows. After Wylan has played his role in foiling Van Eck's plan to trick the Crows, he says this: “Maybe you can pray to Ghezen for understanding, Father,” (Six of Crows, Chapter 45). This is sort of the first act of retribution that the reader sees from Wylan. He has just made his father look like a fool, and then he practically spits in his face by taking the thing that was used against him for so long - their religion - and using it against his father instead. Not only is this moment incredibly satisfying, it also marks the beginning of Wylan's growth as a character that eventually leads to him being able to stand up to his father in more ways.

Despite being arguably the least explored Grishaverse religion in online spaces, I find Ghezenism to be extremely interesting when it comes to the ways it ties into the themes of the story. It represents wider, more general themes found throughout the book, such as the idea that people often value their own success over the well-being of others, but it contains even more when examined under a closer lens. It opens the door to a completely new aspect of further analyzing the relationship between Wylan and his father, and introduces vital elements of in-depth characterization for both of them. The way Wylan and Van Eck each view the same religion is highly indicative of their individual values, and that is a very interesting thing to expand upon. It simply goes to show just how much thought went into creating both the culture of this world, and the characters who live within it.

[louisisalarrie]

ALRIGHT SO I was reminded of this today by a lovely mutual when we were discussing the crazy times of early larry. This… well… this was a great time to be in the fandom. It was chaos. I’ll link the original post I found of this back on my blog from 2013 as well, but I want to add my commentary throughout this post just to explain to all you newer larries what the HELL happened here (and that original post is missing one VERY important picture…)

So… if you think we are excellent detectives now, back then we were constantly finding things because there were so many things happening. The boys and their mothers used Twitter as a place to openly chat and talk shit and Jay and Anne were always tweeting each other about larry and everything… but, these tweets were still in the public eye. It just was a different time, and larrry content was still high on Twitter.

However, there were many more platforms available that the boys could use without being directly in the fandom’s eye. This included Pinterest / Blogspot.

Now, we only ever found Harry’s, and we searched for the other boys ones but couldn’t find anything and I doubt they had them. It was very on brand for Harry to have a Pinterest, so, let’s have a little look, shall we?

I screenshotted the first picture below today. This is Harry’s blogger account. This is still up, although the account hasn’t been active since 2013.

The below photo is from the original post about this whole Pinterest thing. We all clicked on it. It was verified and I saw it with my own eyes. It’s not photoshopped

So anyway, let’s start with his blog before we jump into Pinterest. His blog is adorable! There are more articles than just the one below (screenshot taken today, the link to this blog is here)

So anyway, back in the day, he really didn’t receive many comments or anything. It was a pretty quiet little blog, that sadly, didn’t last that long.

So let’s have a squiz at his Pinterest, shall we?

It was lovely to find his Pinterest. Seeing all the things that he liked, that sparked joy for him… it was truly lovely and such a cool way to connect to our boy. Obviously, by the follower count, it was a little more well known when this screenshot above was taken. However… the earlier screenshots from his Pinterest were a… a time to be alive. When we first found it, we went through his boards, and some photos he’d uploaded and pinned. Have a look…

And so… we were all kind of like okay. Wow. What if this is really him? But…. There’s nothing proving it’s him. And then, we got this photo (which I never see floating around anymore, and we hadn’t seen it prior to this). AHEM WHAT IS THIS SIR THIS WAS TRULY WILD

We lost our minds. There was so much stuff on his profile, a picture of a curly haired kid in suspenders, a lot of pride and larry and Louis stuff in a folder called “be happy”, but alas, the mobile app will only let me post 10 pics. But, there was also this little cheeky dig at you know who, which I loooooove

And oh!!! Remember louis’ black tie 21st that Harry threw??? THIS was one of his boards before Louis had turned 21. There was no way a fan guessed he’d be having a black tie 21st.

BUT everything Louis related, whether it be his 21st or that chihuahua or the photo of them together, got deleted soon after we found it. Obviously we freaked out, tumblr had a meltdown, we had some pretty solid larry evidence on our hands. But the old stuff and anything related to Louis or Harry’s sexuality, got deleted and Harry continued to use it for a little while after. Then, the whole acct was deleted. Which… interesting… why would you bother deleting the whole acct? There wasn’t just larry stuff, there was a heap of things that Harry shared and pinned and loved and it was really cool. Would have been a nice little archive. But the larry evidence was too strong. So it got deleted and we only have screenshots, unfortunately.

But, I can assure you, we all clicked on that Pinterest link and we all saw it with our own eyes. It was verified. It was him. This was real. I scrolled through all of those photos. We also found a tumblr very similar, under the same username, but it disappeared around the same time too.

However, the blog didn’t have anything larry on it, so it’s still up. But yeah. There you have it. Some more larry lore that I forgot about until today. Hehe. Original post with some more commentary from my tumblr in 2013 here

[antimony-medusa]

Gonna be honest with you though if someone outright says “don’t ship my character with other people” or something to that extent regarding smut or whatever I don’t think there should be any ambiguity

I get your point about the nature of fanfic being inherently encroaching upon people’s images so that levity should be extended to otherwise uncommon avenues but I really believe hardline boundaries should be respected, end of, no discussion. If I see people violating creators’ boundaries for their characters Or themselves (and these can be intertwined, it’s not up to the audience to pick apart their boundaries, cuz I’ve seen people try to do that) I’m not going to judge them fairly and I feel like neither should you.

Lines can be crossed and intimacy (not even necessarily romantic!) is a very different monster than the other avenues of storytelling because of how it involves real life relationships seeping into character relationships. Its’s uncommon for people to be like “I wrote A’s character being tortured because I feel like A is tortured in real life” but they Can and Often do that with ship work. So I don’t know, I feel like you’re not affording this the right nuance.

Alright, so, this is another post I'm gonna slap with a discourse and long post warning right away, buckle in.

Yeah, I hear what you're saying, and this is not an uncommon opinion to have! It's still the opinion of twitter/x so far as I know, and I think it's probably the opinion of the bulk of dsmp fans here, as well. I know my posts get notes once they start circulating in hermitblr, but I don't kid myself that I have the majority view. I am posting to explain my views expressly because I know a lot of people don't agree with me!

And in this case we do have a difference of opinion. There's two sort of points as I see it in your posts— we have hardline boundaries about shipping/nsfw from some people, and everyone in the fandom should be abiding by those no exceptions or be thrown out of the fandom; and we have shipping boundaries but not boundaries for other things because shipping is uniquely boundary-crossing and terrible and invasive, in contrast to anything else we can do in fandom.

Taking the second part first, I just don't think that's true. Let's not forget, boundaries discourse started with SMPLive and SMPronpa, and it was not the shipping that caused the discussion, it was the death games. The first real fandom reckoning we had with the notion of boundaries as mcyt fandom was over gore and murder and portraying people in violent ways. Shipping was barely a blip on the radar. The way the discourse has developed now, shipping is framed as the absolute worst thing anyone could ever do with your public image, and everything else is fine, but that is not the case for everyone. Recently the Pirates SMP creators were asked repeatedly for their boundaries (bothered on twitter, really) until they gave them and thus we saw people being fine with shipping but not wanting family dynamic, or being against both shipping and gore, or being fine with shipping but not wanting to be gender bent or trans headcanoned, etc. Not everyone feels the same way about the same things, despite the us-american cultural viewpoint that romance and sexualization is uniquely bad but gore and torture is fine, that everything else is fine.

Like, if we're looking at DSMP, I think there are a lot of creators who would feel just as strongly if not stronger about fics in which their character died of a terminal illness than they would about a fic in which they kiss someone, for understandable reasons. But I see those tropes in the tags regularly!

I think if we are honest with ourselves, if we are going to hardline boundaries about things that are uniquely invasive or bad to do to a creator's character with the view that we are putting all of this up for the creator's approval, we need to accept that this excludes us from writing anything where a character is abusive or is tortured or dies of a terminal illness or is psychologically broken or is age regressed or is neurodivergent or is queer if the cc is straight or trans if the cc is cis or cis if the cc is trans or straight if they're gay— the list of things that would be weird to do in the face of the real guy is really long. And it has most of our favourite tropes on it!

I love writing autistic philza. It would be really fuckin' weird to go up to Philza and tell him about how I write his character as whumped and autistic. Come on now. (But that's within boundaries, so that's— fine? I really don't think it's fine!)

Which is why my stance is that we should be thinking critically about these things, and keeping the fandom seperate from the creators. Some of these things are just not for the creators. They're fine but they shouldn't go on twitter. Y'know?

The idea that shipping draws uniquely on the real person and leads to invasive behaviour but nothing else does— that nobody does "I wrote A being tortured because I think A is tortured in real life"— Look. I have been in the fandom a long time. I remember how all the abused tommy narratives fed right into people assuming his family in real life were abusive— and talking about this on twitter! Where he and his family could see! People did this with WIlbur and Techno too!

I remember people reading about trans tommy and then truthing that the creator either was transmasc or was going to come out as transfemme any day now, publically, on twitter and in his chat. I have seen people she/her tubbo to his face on twitter, with fancams. I have been in chat when people who have clearly assigned Phil "dad" start asking WILDLY invasive things in TTS. If you think that shipping is the only fandom behaviour that can lead to people drawing directly from the streamers for their work and treating the creators weirdly about it, you simply have not been paying attention.

The way the fandom insists on treating benchtrio as children despite the fact that they're almost twenty and viciously attacking their friends for treating them as adults and chiding tommy and tubbo and ranboo for inappropriate behaviour. The list goes ON.

So. The recieved DSMP wisdom is that we should TTS the streamers to check if it's okay if we write a fic in which they die of cancer. We should DM them on instagram to ask if it's okay if we write them as a gender or sexual identity they don't share. We should show up in their twitter mentions to ask if it's okay if we write them as a physically abusive parent.

No????????

My view on that is that it is frankly bizzare it is that we have decided that "asking creators for detailed instructions regarding porn or gore" (especially in TTS! When they're fucking at WORK and can't step away! Stop doing this to the hermits!) is normal and fine and responsible but "post your shit in appropriate places and leave the creators out of it" will make you a monster.

Once again, the experience of someone coming up and saying "i think of you as age regressed" and someone saying "i found this fic where you're age regressed" and someone saying "can I write a fic where you're age regressed" is not that different. In all cases you know that the person has been thinking about it and putting it out there, and in all cases you didnt seek out this information, it was brought to you. In all cases it's weird. Just do not bring this information up to them!

If you just think about it for a while, you see that there is an entire host of things that would be weird to force into the view of a creator, especially when you consider that half the time we got these clips from TTS information when we have no idea if the person answering knew the context of what they were being asked, if they were specifically aware of the creator/cc divide that the fandom works with, or if they felt pressured into it. Oh yeah, let's take a TTS clip from Tubbo when it was 2 in the morning for him and he was deep in a minecraft mod when someone asked him about alters and delusions and he was like "oh you mean like— when they can't help it? I guess that's fine." That definately counts as freely given, reversible, informed, enthusiastic and specific consent to show him anything we want at all times forever. That's never going to make him uncomfortable.

Think a little here.

So I think there's a lot of the fandom that we should not be putting up for the approval of the creators, and if we don't have a firm answer on if they would like potential edge cases, we should probably be thinking about it and keeping it away from them (and I would err on the side of caution), we should NOT be showing up in the TTS to ask them about narratives in which they're institutionalized, or making them a GOP conservative in fiction, or if Wilbur was canon about seeing them as a bottom, or whatever bizzare thing someone is cooking up now. Honestly if you think to yourself "I don't know if the creator would like seeing this", I would be much more comfortable if the two choices we were picking between there were "simply don't write it" or "write it but keep it away from them", and "harass the creator for an answer on this subject and only write it if they say yes" never entered the equation at all.

And to return to your first point, if we already have a class of fiction that we are keeping away from the creators because basic intellectual curiosity would show that it would be weird to show someone, I don't think it's the end of the world to go "okay, creator doesn't like NSFW, so we also keep the NSFW away from them, keep this shit off twitter, block them if you create it, don't show it to them" and then we archive lock it and continue on our little weirdo on the internet ways.

Now, I don't expect to convince you of this, the phrasing of your post does not indicate that you're open to discussion on this topic. That's fine. Nobody has to agree with me. But I grew up conservative christian, and I have already had people try and get me to throw people out of the community for their perceived sins where I was like "well, I really don't think this is that bad", and I'm really resistant to being forced to do that again. I don't think it's a healthy way to run a fandom, to be shunning people for what they're doing in fiction. Harassing creators in chat? Sure, I will block them from my events as untrustworthy. That's hurting someone in the real world. Writing something that I don't vibe with privately on the archive for an audience of 50 people? That is not doing harm to real people. As long as they're not showing it to the creators, I don't count that as offensive.

How's that for nuance.

[biancadoes1]

First of all: happy birthday! Wishing you lots of happiness and many more years of life! 🥳

So I have a group of friends that I care about a lot. We met because of our love for Bridgerton. Like many of us, they ended up boarding the "Lukola" ship. I’ve grown closer to them over the past few months, but I feel like they’re starting to act strangely regarding Nicola, especially after the addition of A and JD to the story.

They’ve been judging Nic and Luke’s posts as if they know details no one else does. They’re judging Nic as if she were Judas and had done terrible things. They accuse her of only caring about self-promotion, sidelining Luke, and being the one to blame for the nasty comments people direct at Luke. They’re saying Nic does everything deliberately and knows she’s harming Luke on purpose. They even claim Netflix and Shonda only care about Nic and forget that Luke exists.

I’ve tried to bring some sense to the conversation by saying that social media represents only 10% or less of a celebrity’s life and that we can’t judge things as if we actually know them or live with them. But I feel like they withdraw when I make comments like that. I believe they just want an echo chamber for their thoughts.

I’ve been thinking about distancing myself, but these girls were a great support for me when I lost a close relative. I feel ungrateful for even considering stepping away. At the same time, I’m bothered by the way they talk about Nicola. We’re all women and we know the pressure of being a woman, especially in the world of fame.

No offense, anon, but your friends sound like they need help. Do they all know how to tie their own shoes? It sounds like they haven’t learned a lot in life.

Anyone attempting to claim that Nicola or Luke are attempting to hurt each other over social media with their behaviors is a tried and true idiot.

Get new a new group. If you’re bothered by this and have a hard time seeing past it, it’s definitely time to find different people to talk with.

I understand feeling some obligation to stay for fear of seeming ungrateful but you also have to take care of yourself and in a situation involving a group chat with people with the same interest, you should always come first.

Protect your own peace. There’s nothing selfish about doing that. There are plenty of other people in the fandom who think like you do and are willing to have discussions. You just have to find them.

[theultimatenonbinarynerd]

Epic Fandom We Need To Talk! (An Open Letter)

As a former survivor of severe Cyberbullying and harrasment I can no longer stay silent anymore. You have forced my hand.

This has gone way too far and I am massively disappointed. All I ask is that you listen to what I have to say. This is no longer a joke as a survivor of Cyberbullying and harrasment I can say that a misunderstanding has turned into The Epic Fandom putting the livelihood and well being of artists in danger. I ask you to be respectful and understand I am speaking from old wounds and experience. Please don't twist my words, I don't support 🍇 or Antinous he is a horrible character.

Tw: Mentions of Cyberbullying, 🍇 and harassment

Dear Epic Fandom,

You are better then this, I know you are. Polites taught us to greet the world with open arms and accept when people make mistakes and stop holding onto are anger. The fandom is growing and we can't stop it but I'm really disappointed in the people letting hate win and turning the fandom venomous and toxic

We are all Epic Fans but behind the glass on your screen there's a person, a person with feelings who you know nothing about. You all don't know the real Melody typing this but your all probably gonna make assumptions based on what you dont know and that is the danger of being online. The person who posted fanart of Antinous and Telemachus you didn't like, they have real feelings. Complicated messy feelings that aren't able to be articulated enough online.

As a survivor of bullying myself my motto is block or scroll. I myself am very uncomfortable with a lot of the ao3 tags shipping Odysseus with Poseidon or Zeus but do I go angrily type on my keyboard? No I don't cos it's none of my damnn business. When I saw that art, I was confused and uncomfortable but instead of being reckless and sentimental I asked for clarification. Taking Polites advice I used open arms and talked about what was bothering me without attacking the artist. Instead of being like Polites you all became Poseidon. Ruthlessness Is Mercy is not the way to go, it's a toxic way to go about life. Did you all not listen to that Thunder Saga and see how it destroyed everything Odysseus had known for the past thirteen years.

You should all be absolutely ashamed of yourself. This is not what the Epic Fandom should be. You don't like someone's fan art ask for clarification and or block. There is no need to be Ruthless and cruel. The fact two genuine heartfelt Apologises have been made and you still can't let it go very much clearly shows your character. You are very much like Poseidon and Zeus and should be ashamed. In Ares words you are all sick cowards. Not only that but you are clearly projecting. I suggest you go to therapy if you think your time in the Epic the musical fandom should be spent bullying and harassing people then leave. The number one rule is that there is always a person behind the screen and that you should think before you type.

I'm still not over the fact how you have twisted and triggered someone's truama. I also can't believe hate is being given after the artist mentioned her experience. 🍇 is not a thing to weaponise. I feel like the Wisdom Saga has made you far too comfortable in how you handle and discuss 🍇. The artist forgot her trigger warnings and wasn't even trying to imply the twisted image you put on her. Also I pointed out she shouldn't have tagged it Epic and apologied. Jorge has made adaptations to The Odssey a piece of fiction. What Jorge has done with Antinous is his own creative liberties. If you can't have sensitive and respectful conversation about something that is still happening to people I don't know what to say. Accusing someone of supporting 🍇 is not okay at all. The artist wasn't attending that way and understands she shouldn't have done what she did but it goes both ways. Look for context before you slam. Judging someone based on an honest mistake and huge misunderstanding is dangerous and cruel. Do you not understand the dangers this could put the artist in in real life. Please have open arms and think before you type. This is a serious topic and not a joke.

Moving on I want to talk about why I think this blew up so bad. It's because Elian was commissioned to do an animatic for Jorge. Listen you all would have blocked if it wasn't for that. I read comments saying they idolised her and that is a really f**** dangerous thing to do. Idiolising someone because they've been noticed or hired by Jorge isn't healthy at all. At the end of the day we are all human beings. Elian is allowed to make mistakes and grow. Outside of Epic this is becoming a massive problem in genuine.

Worse I've seen and heard about Artists like Mirscy and AnniFlamma getting attacked just for defending their friend. I'm sorry are we not allowed to defend our friends now from bullying? I can't speak for them but if I saw my friend getting hated and harassed on I'd be angry too, it's like a natural emotion to feel. Then again you are the same fandom that mocks Eurylochus for sticking up for his crew so I'm not suprised. These artists are human beings and not God's because Jorge noticed and appreciated their work. Stop twisting these artists into people there not.

I'm not Tiresias but I can see Jorge stopping collaborating with artists on animatics if you keep this disgusting behaviour up. Constructive criticism is okay but falsely twisting the image of an artist is not okay at all by doing this you are dehumanising artists and doing exactly what Hollywood does. Jorge will have to stop commissioning people it you keep using the fact he noticed them against them when they make mistakes like all human beings do.

Please do better and stop being Poseidons. An 8 year grudge was unhealthy and got him nowhere. Be more like Polites and Greet The World with open arms. Not everything is black and white. Tik Tok built the Epic Fandom up and you hold all the power.

Stay kind and great the world the world with open arms.

Yours Sincerely,

Melody

They/Them

Ps: If you send me hate and twist my words be warned I have friends as well. One particular friend was there when a lot of my Cyberbullying truama happened and is aware why this has triggered me so badly and caused an episode.

Attack you will be blocked. I'll also remove reblogs.

Attack and you will be reported.

You don't scare me.

Be nice Epic Fandom and don't become The Monster. I'm willing to have civil conversations but that's it.

[jetspikepub]

No one ever really talks about it in the fandom and it NEEDS to be discussed because it's hilarious to me. I have to ask where all the crazed spike x julia fans come from 😭 like say one thing negative about the ship or ship spike with someone else and there's this one person (who I think owns multiple spikexjulia accounts snd pretends to be different people😭😭) that starts sending their "CAnoN aNd facTuAL eviDencE" with so much hostility

I've also noticed that Julia fans either always hate Faye and/or don't give a damn about Spike's well-being and just want him paired up with Julia even if that costed him his life, which I don't even think Julia herself wanted for him to do in the end lol. It's a little disturbing

Oh trust me, this is a looong story. It's not like we don't see it, we just got tired of it. You're not alone, I give you a warm hug🫂

This user has been terrorising Bebop fandom across multiple platforms since 2022, I think. If you ever see this bitch harassing someone just flag the account or ban it. A collective appeal could do the trick, but it's gonna be like chopping off Hydra's heads. This pain in the ass keeps posting weird commissions on X (Twitter), Deviantart, Reddit, Pixiv (for Christ's sake, please DO NOT search Bebop tag on Pixiv, it's a total disaster in there right now) and edited Bebop wiki, describing Faye as Spike's no 1 enemy and Julia as a goddess of doves and roses 🤢 It's hard to track down every account, the only way to stay safe is to not interact with them and blacklist. "If I ignore it, maybe it will go away" tactics is the best in this situation, don't let them take away your time and emotions, they cannot be reasoned with.

Another thing that bothers me is that stupid localisation of guide books with SpikeJulia nonsence the translators added just because they wanted to and ruined the original idea that implies multiple ways of story perception. I've aready dispelled that "truest lover ever" myth by presenting the original texts from my collection of Japanese books. They fucked up with "love" kanji meaning in Eng and this changed a lot (I did some analysis here and here). Now we can see what happens when these love stories fall into the wrong hands: haters cite it like a Bible in each and every thread about SpikeFaye😩 Also there was a post about some Julia's love letter to Spike (wtf?) written on the back cover of the vol. 6.

I wanted to make a post about it and took pictures of a Japanese edition but forgot. Now it's the right time to dispel another myth.

According to quick translation results, this guide was made to inform fans about some Bebop episodes which weren't aired on regular TV and appeared later on WOWOW (premuim satellite broadcasting) because of censorship.

There was no mention of Julia writing letters to Spike in the original series. It was Spike who gave her a note describing rendezvous point or whatever and she tore it to pieces🤷🏼‍♀️

Just remember: Spike's well-being is up to the viewer. Noone can convince you otherwise if you don't want to and noone has right to insult you. Spike is for everyone 🌸

The situation is so annoying, those who loved SpikeJulia or didn't give a damn about them now hate this. If someone is going to use "SpikeJulia" as a safeword I will understand 🤣

[screamting]

what r ur thoughts on reconciliation between jason and bruce. is it really possible? what would it take? what would it look like? seen some stuff on my dash lately about that particularly thorny issue and would love to get your perspective. (hopefully this is the kind of ask ur looking for)

(you are FINE this is going to be the bane of my fandom career) 

So realistically we're not going to see Jason reconcile with Bruce because a) everybody loves angst b) no one is talking about the ISSUE. 

The ISSUE is not the murder thing. Like. The murder thing doesn't help but it isn't the root; killing people is something Jason decided to start doing because it was something Bruce is extremely firm on. He stands by the 'no murder' thing even when his own life and the lives of others are in danger. He stands SO firmly by it, that if you break that rule maybe you can break the entire foundation of Batman, which is that things are never so far gone they can't be redeemed. Gotham is never so far gone it isn't worth trying to repair. We are not cutting the rot away we are building an environment which no longer collapses into rot around us, even if it is gross, demeaning, dangerous work. 

If Bruce killed the Joker in Under the Red Hood I think Jason would have been lost forever. Because it would've been proof that Bruce's most fervent beliefs meant nothing. If Bruce's hardest promise, that he would not kill, was broken so easily, then what does that mean about all his other promises? All the promises that he loved Jason and would never send him away? If his hardest promise can be broken, do those easy promises even stand a chance? 

I think the issue is and always will be: Did you love me? Do you love me still? 

All those posts about coming back wrong and unlovable, and what if I was unlovable the whole time and it was just that I can't even be bothered to pretend anymore? That's Jason Todd. He crawled his way out of his own grave an open wound and he is trying to convince himself that he's doing fine while actively bleeding. I feel insane reading some of the discourse because it's talking about Jason from the pov of his disenfranchisement and that as driving him in Red Hood and like. No! Jason is disenfranchised, he was failed by the systems, absolutely; I do not fucking believe he is doing any of this for people like him. He is saying things that validate his pain because he cannot deal with the enormous amount of pain he is in. He died and came back to life. He did it in a way people don't know or understand, or via Lazarus pit, which people condemn. I think to resolve things they'd need a god damn religious discussion to even start with, to ask Jason if he thinks anything that has died and come back to life can ever be good, or if it's just him. 

I think he must have had self-loathing and insecurity built up before his death and it Exploded when he came back to life several years later and saw from the out side people attempting to move on. This is not a victim blame because of course he had self-loathing and insecurity, he was a kid with a difficult childhood and you need at least five years to a decade to start feeling like someone else, who maybe has confidence and certainty. I think being Robin let him borrow confidence, and so like, probably did feel great! He had a script and a role to fill and he was given a lot of practice to do it!

I think part of the problem is that post-resurrection is Jason has to figure out who he is for the first time again, even older now. He lost some of his teen years in figuring things out. He has the life experiences of a 14 year old and then training under assassins and then like. Drug lord?? For a bit?? 

Jason is not fighting for the disenfranchised. He is trying to figure out who the hell he is and is bouncing around so many teams and timelines and shit that all already know him and know him as the dead kid that I think for him and Bruce to make up, like. He probably needs to have a job?

Not for money necessarily, because like. The Wayne fortune is right there. But I think he needs to go somewhere, with a schedule, for like at least six months in a row, and have something low stakes dependent on him. Like a dog or something. Maybe get involved in local theater. Take the dog to dog training twice a week and teach small children acting in the afternoons. 

And once a week or whenever they feel like it Bruce and Jason can have a phone call, and Jason can bring up what's happening at the theater and how the dog is, and Bruce can talk about Wayne Corp shit. 

And if Jason learns from dog time about someone who is mistreating an animal or a partner then like maybe he goes and steals a dog or tells someone to come stay over at his house for a while and gives them some cash. And after he does something rash he still needs to come back to his apartment and feed the dog and show up to the theater the next day. 

I think he needs to see the world around him when it ISN'T homelessness and assassins guilds and running out into the streets at night looking for trouble. 

'but you haven't addressed anything for bruce to do' for Bruce to have to do anything we first need to get jason at the table. 'bruce beat jason in x comic/brainwashed him into an overactive fear response/almost certainly also something else' 

1. i'm choosing to say besides the throat thing that people hate (bc I get that. Bruce needs to say 'yes I was panicking and my writer was being dramatic I'm sorry' ) bruce doesn't beat his kids or any rogues in general once they're at a point they're no longer trying to kill/hurt anyone either. 

2. tbh I think the anxiety brainwashing is facinating and definitely something Bruce might have thought about but making it and using it is fully in 'I was also having a 3 day long mental breakdown' territory. However since Jason put a lot of heads in a duffle bag during HIS mental breakdown I think this might again be within 'yeah that was fucked up I'm sorry about that' territory.

Honestly I wish that Jason had gone to Bruce after the Selina 'making thieves pay 15% to charity' thing and they had just had the BIGGEST bitching fest about it with each other.  I think that, faster than literally any amount of relaxation and therapy, would have gotten them back on the same side. They need to get in a room together and just. Bitch about it. Jason saw the WORST adaptation the other day. Bruce is dealing with the MOST stuck up prick at the board meeting. 

Before they can fix anything they need to remember why they even loved each other. If they feel it again maybe they'll work to save it. But no one is going to fix a relationship where it feels like an obligation for a feeling you aren't sure even exists anymore.

[macchiatosdumptruck]

okay but why do most villains (or exvillains like Johnny) go crazy over/because of Larusso? is it because they tried so hard to destroy him and failed, and have to live with that failure? Like with Silver. He's 100% to blame for everything, why the unhingedness?

I think that's part of it, and that's what they would probably tell others. That he was an annoying little pest who couldn't leave well enough alone and they were only giving him what was coming to him. That they were humiliated by him and angry in a very normal, masculine, heterosexual way.

But looking at how real people treat both Ralph, and the character Daniel, it has to be more than that.

I think he represents a form of masculinity that bothers them. He's too androgynous, too skinny, too pretty, but he's also very secure in himself. He doesn't see the need to puff himself up and act all macho. He's comfortable in his skin.

I think people see that and resent it. Because if they have to play by the rules (rules, being gender conformity) then he should have to as well. But instead he's somehow winning the girls and getting the trophies anyway.

Something about him deeply aggravates a certain type of man. We see it to this day, the oddly targeted and pointed hatred towards him, especially from men. He's treated in ways I've only ever seen female characters treated tbh, lol. He's the bitchy wife. He's the stuck up prick. He's the goody two shoes. He's no fun. He's the stick in the mud. Etc.

He disrupts their power fantasies I think. Which is why a certain type of Guy is so deeply invested in Johnny getting the "better" of him. Because that's the way it was supposed to be in their mind.

They want toxic masculinity to work for them, not to see an example of a guy flourishing despite denying it.

I think it is also other things. Like, with Chozen, it was a humiliation. Daniel was who he was trying to be in a way. A fitting heir. An honorable man. He bested him, and yet, he wouldn't even do Chozen the dignity of properly ending him. A bit of compassion that may have seemed like yet another embarrassment. But of course, over the years he learned otherwise, and then he started looking up to Daniel. Admiring him.

I know a lot of the fandom likes to think that Johnny was so distracted by Daniel because he was secretly running from gay thoughts, and he may well have been. But they weren't kind, I don't think. They were angry. And part of that anger was probably towards himself and kreese's and his dad, and whatever, but also part of it was very much at Daniel for being Other. Like. Right in front him.

It's so funny (not) that at the end of the movie he seems to have at least some emotional intelligence and apologizes. In the beginning of the second movie he realizes that the things he had been holding dear were poisonous.

Then he just forgot all about it because it was easier to blame Daniel, than to blame Kreese or himself. It was Daniel's fault he never had a proper relationship, it was Daniel's fault he peaked in high school. Certainly not the guy who was like low key/high key grooming a small army of child soldiers.

Mike it was just him keeping his word to his boss. It was a business thing. Monetary gain. He is also the most normal of all the people affected by Daniel LaRusso Derangement Syndrome (wow it's been a while since i typed that) but once Daniel (and Terry ) comes back into his life he's back in it again.

Terry, I mean. I have lost count of the number of times I've discussed his specific form of mental illness was tbh and it still makes me think every day. Like, I'd just be repeating things I had said in earlier asks lol.

Kreese, I think is the most upset at Daniel's version of whatever "masculinity" is because for him, he seemingly adopted his stance out of survival. (What happened between the war and the films. He was far too normal in those flashbacks) Daniel represents the sort of weakness that almost took Kreese himself out. (That he still sees sometimes in Terry)

And even still, he is insufferable enough to be so so pretty during all of this. I mean, look at how people treat the pretty boy idols of the time? No matter who they are, there are going to be people very vocally disliking them because girls like him even though [ insert whatever fallacies of masculinity here]

Like. I don't like or dislike Timothy choolamoo but the way some men can't stand him reminds me a lot of those angry men complaining that their girlfriends had a crush on Ralph in highschool.

So i think it's because he's appealing in a way that is confusing in many aspects. He's appealing in the same way cute girls are and that's Not Ok. Because they're Not Gay. But he's also appealing (and detestable) because he gets to be happy and successful in a way that doesn't make sense to them. Because he's not playing by the rules.

So, I think it all combines, and they get angry boners over it.

[ardentpoop]

If it's okay to ask: what are your thoughts on meg and sexual assault? I really dislike the way a lot of people on here talk about it (and meg, especially meg 2.0, in general) so I wanted to hear your view on it if you'd like to share!

not totally sure if you mean you’re bothered by how people discuss meg as a perpetrator or meg as a victim, because one could easily argue both. there are obvious allusions to rape re: meg possessing sam’s body in BUABS (just as every possession arc incorporates allusions to rape - most notably sam’s as he is at the heart of the majority of these arcs and also because well. The Roles.) and there are also of course the scenes where meg gets grabby with both sam and dean as a show of force.

I’m gonna assume however that you’re referring to people speaking about meg 2.0 in a demeaning manner and not recognizing the excessive misogynistic violence she is subjected to as a character, because come on. I know what this fandom is like. the two key episodes that come to mind for me are “caged heat” and “goodbye stranger.” gonna share some dialogue excerpts to get my point across, but you could even just count how many times dean refers to meg as a “bitch” in caged heat because it is frankly impressive that the writers (this one was tag-teamed by a duo and neither of them are familiar names) were so committed to it in just the one episode.

[caged heat]

notes on the above excerpts:

as with all demons who inhabit female vessels meg’s sexuality is a main ingredient of her characterization as a villain. she speaks overwhelmingly in slimy innuendo and flirtatious-quips-as-insults, she forcefully kisses and touches sam and dean without their consent, she is frequently referred to as a “whore” accordingly. it’s worth noting however that although in this episode meg weaponizes her sexuality (as expected for every character like her) against samndean while she supposedly has them tied up at her mercy, it is soon revealed that meg cannot actually harm samndean and is on the run from crowley - the brothers have the upper hand and her threats are ultimately empty. meg’s power is taken from her at the very start of this episode.

compare meg being tortured by crowley’s henchman to crowley being tortured by meg moments later within the same episode. she is naked and strapped down, she is being assaulted with a knife. the dialogue smacks you over the head with implied rape, as if the scene wasn’t brutal enough on its own. what does crowley get in return from meg, when he greets her as “whore” immediately after this assault scene? he gets to writhe around a bit on the floor, fully-clothed of course. “the best torturers never get their hands dirty,” huh? convenient!

on top of all this we for some reason also needed cas testing out his Porn Tricks on meg - which, don’t get me wrong, I’ve always kind of had a weird soft spot for megstiel (gay edit), but you have to admit that the timing and the context rankles. recurring Woman Character who doesn’t serve as a love interest or sexual interest for one of the boys is very hard to come by around here.

[goodbye stranger]

robbie thompson committed many sins with this (tbfh) godawful episode but what I want to point out here specifically is the continuation of meg being victimized by crowley. with bonus treat of sam being spoken to in the same sexually demeaning manner, as I suppose is only fair and right when both meg and sam were given the “wait outside while the men take care of business, frail maiden” treatment because thompson could not resist an opportunity to serve up dstiel bait that interfered with the structure and logic of the episode as well as with dean’s (and meg’s!) characterization.

TL;DR yeah uh the fans never talk about any of this because they’re too high on dstiel fumes to critique anything about the writing if they’re getting their tasty tasty little flavorless morsels from the like 3 guys on the writing team who were willing to feed them.

sorry for being mean but not really bc you guys are so annoying and dense about the already horrifically mistreated female characters on this show. wish I knew specifically what types of meg takes you don’t like anon so I could confirm whether they’re the ones that are a product of people despising female characters who “get in the way.”