#Anti SU critical

[autistic-ben-tennyson]

Still Salty About the Flanderization of Steven

Many SU fans have had to see these memes and are probably tired of them. I really hate the way people who have never even watched the show and probably just LO’s video flanderize Steven into a bumbling wimp or take scenes like him crying about wanting to be friends with Connie or trying to talk down Spinel out of context. People hate him for not killing his enemies on sight and act as if all he does is talk no jitsu. People act as if he’d die trying to redeem Big Jack Horner from Puss in Boots even though he’s met villains like Jack with Aquamarine and Eyeball and not only did he kick their asses but accepted that they were beyond help. Steven prefers to talk over fighting but isn’t stupid and knows when he has to get serious. Even during his “I can make a change” song that’s twisted out of context, he was still fighting defensively against Spinel. He just wasn’t fighting to kill. As for the meme above, did the creator watch Alien Force? The way Ben handled the Dragon, Reiny and the Highbreed would be pretty similar to how Steven would. The idealistic hero who teaches violence isn’t always the answer has already been done so why does Steven get the most hate for it?

I reblogged a post about this but I really am tired of how TOH is propped up as the anti SU when Dana is friends with Rebecca and praised the groundbreaking work Rupphire did. The Owl House crew doesn’t hate SU and wasn’t doing a “take that” by killing its villain or claiming not everyone can be talked down with a hug. They’re two different shows with different stories and themes. Steven would also know that some like Belos can’t be redeemed and he didn’t actually redeem the diamonds. He didn’t like them and acts uncomfortable around them in Future but he needed them to cure the corrupted gems. The point of the diamonds as well as Andy was not that you have to accept bigoted family members but a wish fulfillment where queer people could get their families to accept them. I saw this on Reddit but I think Steven gets so much hate because he teaches the idea that retributive violence isn’t always the solution and because he got a good life with a loving family, girlfriend and adoration of everyone without being a self centered sexist asshole. Internet Dudebros hate the character who showed healthy emotion, treats Connie as an equal and taught stuff like acceptance, boundaries and kindness, as they hate the idea that they don’t have any of that because of how bigoted, self absorbed or toxic they are.

[sjbattleangel]

Seriously, people! Can we STOP using The Owl House to tear down She-Ra and Steven Universe!!? Hearing others refer to The Owl House as "the anti-She-Ra", "the anti-Steven Universe" or "what She-Ra/Steven Universe should've been" makes my blood boil to no end! Do you realize that Dana Terrace, Rebecca Sugar and ND Stevenson are mutual friends who respect each other and their work? Not to mention how they helped paved the way for one another: For instance, without Rebecca Sugar fighting Cartoon Network for Steven Universe to be openly queer, there would be no She-Ra and without She-Ra, there would be no Owl House.

We need to stop tearing queer creators down just to put others on a pedestal. It no longer becomes about "wanting diversity and representation" but about turning "diversity and representation" into some elitist, gatekeeping competition. And that....that is just wrong.

For the record: I love all three series.

[tranquil-slaughterhouse]

Hey does anyone remember 7 years ago when some people thought Adventure Time was better than Steven Universe all because Tree Trunks wrote "Fascist" on her picketing sign?

[autisticsupervillain]

"Steven Universe is Nazi propaganda because characters who destroyed planets got a redemption arc!"

You guys act like two of the most popular redemption arcs in fiction didn't also happen to characters who destroy planets.

Hell, the Galactic Empire Vader works for is supposed to be a direct analogue to the Nazis for fucks sake. No one is calling Stars Wars or Dragon Ball Nazi propaganda just because these two got character development. That'd be fucking absurd.

Like, complain about how the Redemption Arc got rushed all you want (even if that's on the producers for canceling the show early and not the writers), but please just acknowledge the calling the Jewish woman a Nazi sympathizer because you didn't like her kids cartoon is fucking vile.

[autistic-ben-tennyson]

I feel like people wanted this to be a show about a communist revolution punching up against the system but that wasn’t Rebecca’s vision. In real life, Bismuth being angry at her oppressor and Andy being booted for his behavior would be justified but it was meant to be a show about restorative justice and the idea that anyone is capable of change. A wish fulfillment story for LGBTQ people who have been abused and rejected for refusing to conform to convince their families to change and realize they could know them.

Also, the Highbreed arc in Ben 10 Alien Force had a similar ending and it was considered the peak of that show by most of the fandom. Unlike the diamonds who were an allegory for abusive families, the Highbreed actually were an allegory for white supremacists. Yet, no one called Dwayne McDuffie a fascist or white supremacist for redeeming them or for having Ben befriend one of them and heal their whole race. Rebecca took a lot of inspiration from magical girl anime like Sailor Moon and Revolutionary Girl Utena which have similar themes to SU and why Steven is very idealistic and pacifistic. It’s not because she’s a fascist or abuse apologist.

ok challenege accepted. what do you think about the "the diamonds were redeemed" discourse

people who still parrot that talking point are just willfully ignorant. the show never portrays the diamonds as "redeemed" after change your mind, aside from spinel everyone outside of homeworld is either peacefully keeping their distance from the diamonds or in case of steven, still actively despises them for what they've done. having them work to fix the damage they've done to gemkind for the next.... however long it's gonna take is a much more fitting narrative resolution to them than just outright killing them. because if you killed them, not only would that not be satisfying, it would still not have fixed the systemic issues homeworld had. so.... pay attention!!

[spop-romanticizes-abuse]

if you want a mutually toxic and messed up relationship that isn't romanticized by the narrative:

if you want a relationship where both people make mistakes, but they actually work through their issues together:

if you want an actually good enemies to lovers sapphic ship (with actual fighting and almost killing each other and everything):

you don't have to settle for cat/radora :)

[lainalit]

artist: mftfernandez

[newbtheveryawesomeandkindanewby]

[sjbattleangel]

@pleasetiemyshoe, @samasmith23, @shadow-turtle-234, @alohamarsblog

It's even more disturbing when you consider Rebecca Sugar modelled Steven after herself and her younger brother, whom she named the character after. Lily knew this. Lily knew Steven was a stand-in for Sugar and her brother. Considering how Lily has always held a deeply personal, parasoical grudge against Sugar, way before she even saw Steven Universe, it's safe to assume the very worst: Lily wants to harm-no, straight-up murder Rebecca Sugar. And yes, I know about her brining knives to school and planning school-shootings. She's that horrifyingly bloodthirsty.

I think one of the most disturbing things I’ve seen from Lily(not counting the Stockholm stuff) is the comic where her super-smart, super special self insert OC who literally killed god because “he was an asshole” brutally and sadisticly killed Steven Universe because Steven tried to stop her OC and some other character from killing each other.

And it’s meant to make the OC look cool and awesome or something,

It just came across as really gross and petty, personally.

!I'm actually surprised at how easy it was to find this comic. I just went on her fan art page and looked at the valkyr tag.

I could have sworn there was another one, where the pink hair lady also killed Steven, but I must have imagined it. Ether way, I'm adding the comic here.

WARNING: THE FOLLOWING IMAGES INVOLVE AN ADULT KILLING STEVEN, A CHILD, FOR THE SIN OF ASKING PEOPLE TO CHOSE TO NON VIOLENT OPTION. PROCEED AT YOUR OWN DISCREPTION!!!

*I have decided to format this way so that it's easier to scroll past for those who chose to not read it.

[almacambiondaughterofsaleos]

Greg Universe Is A Better Dad Than Stolas, But His Actions Are Treated With More Scrutiny Than That Bird Brain

It's funny how the Steven Universe narrative treats Greg harshly for his decisions regarding Steve while Stolas is given "he's doing his best" treatment each time it's apparent he's a shitty dad. Again what really threw of Steven Universe Future is when they rag him for not wanting to bring up his issues with his families for a good reason. The guys were control freaks and he didn't want that for his son. And again he did everything he can to help his kid despite not fully understanding his half Gem status. And funny enough he owns up to his mistakes when his son almost crashes their truck because at least he feels his son was secure enough to stand up to him.

However, that is with contrast with Stolas which the narrative tries it's hardest to absolve him of any wrongdoing even when it's apparent he's neglecting his daughter because of it. The narrative tries to hammer in the idea of how much of a good father he's shilled up as but never shows it in actions. He frequently thinks more of his boy toy than her and often gets distracted by his own petty slights against Stella and obsession with Blitzo. He makes a big deal about how much she means to him but in priorities he's push her aside to fulfill what he thinks is entitled to be happy. If he really loved her then the narrative would give him excuses on him cheating and why it was justified because she was hurt by it and still is. The narrative unlike Steven Universe doesn't seem to care how badly his actions affected her while Greg's actions are put under a microscope in contrast where the Gems seem to get a pass.

I am going to be honest I do think the narrative treats Greg harsher than the Gems who were doing more of the lionshare of baggage but get coddled in a way similar to Stolas. However, Greg is bashed for not taking him to the doctor even who knows what could happen along with proper school. I feel it same with Stolas whose issues are brushed off as just being a result of Stella instead of admitting directly he's the main cause despite the retconning. Stolas is kind of like a worse version of the Gems where their baggage they foist on their child isn't treated as that big but narrative but they project onto another character to keep them from scrutiny. And in so many ways it makes Greg and Stella the scrapegoat of the narrative so that their favored characters have the heap of issues pushed on them.

[autistic-ben-tennyson]

Steven Universe: A Complicated Relationship

I’m starting to fall out of love with this show. I used to be obsessed with it and it was important to me as a way of figuring out my gender and sexuality. Yet, my relationship to it has become more complicated as of late. I’ve defended it myself and have been passionate about it, yet seeing the way a lot of stans have acted has kind of ruined it for me especially due to dismissing any criticism. This is not me saying I hate it or think it’s irredeemable Nazi propaganda but not everyone who dislikes it watches Lily Orchard and there are valid things to criticize about it.

There’s definitely bad faith criticism of the show such as flanderizing Steven into a crybaby with those Jack Horner/Hitler memes or claiming it was made to attack Christians but some people do have valid points. The episodes Bismuth and Gem Harvest may have not intended to come off as racist but one could interpret them as forcing people to forgive their abusers or bigoted relatives. As someone who’s Asian and knows about the way we’re represented, the way Priyanka and Doug were portrayed in the early seasons as tiger parents has not aged well.

One other criticism I’ve seen is that the show copies a lot of old sci fi or anime tropes without recognizing the issues with them or removing them from their original context. I and others have compared the show’s ending to the Highbreed arc from Ben 10 Alien Force. The difference is that the Highbreed were treated as supremacists who needed to be stopped, not as abusive family. People can debate over whether they should have gotten more consequences but they were not treated as dorky relatives. The only one Ben befriends was a low ranking officer who became the new leader and convinced the high council to accept having their DNA changed. There’s also the human zoo, another sci fi trope that’s aged badly with the racist implications.

The series is also compared to a lot of anime. There’s references to Ghibli, NGE, Sailor Moon and Dragon Ball and many have compared the show’s idealism to that of magical girl shows like Madoka Magica. The difference is that those shows didn’t use subjects like colonialism as a backdrop for family drama. SW suffers from that as well especially with the rebels only wanting to restore the old liberal system while taking imagery from the Viet Cong. People who wanted a revolution story weren’t necessarily wrong as that’s what the early seasons did set up.

Some will accuse me of fandomizing the war but I’ve noticed a lot of the hardcore stans are white queers who support Israel or demand complete support for democrats. Not saying every SU fan is a bad person btw. There are a lot of decent people who are anti Zionist and like the show but a lot of these pop progressive cartoons as well as SW, Disney and Marvel/DC are used by people with gross beliefs to infantilize themselves and dismiss any criticism from POC fans. If mainstream kids media is where you’re getting your all political takes from then maybe you do need to branch out and watch more mature stuff. Watching NGE helped me grow up a lot and learn nuance.

As a recap, I’m not saying SU is a bad show or that people are bad for liking it. It was important for my own development as well as a lot of lgbt youth and was a jumping point for a lot of my current interests such as classic anime or Lisa Hannigan, who’s an amazing musician and is pro Palestine btw. Future did help me a bit with mental health yet people are allowed to dislike it or find that even if it wasn’t intentional, there are some implications that should be addressed. I don’t hate it and there’s some stuff worth defending in it but it’s not the greatest show ever and people who get all their politics from it need to grow up. Between it, TOH, Dead End and She-Ra, I think a lot of the pop progressive media that we have today will not age well and that’s something we need to accept.

[sjbattleangel]

Once again: Please watch Hiding In Private's excellent videos defending Steven Universe.

It still baffles me how wholesome series about loving yourself and loving others got so much backlash, it became, and still remains, one of the most hated cartoons of all time. But why? Steven Universe never set out to be "the next Avatar: The Last Airbender", "another riff of Star Wars" or a "pastel-coloured Game Of Thrones in space". It was wonderfully queer series about fixing broken bonds and understanding each other. It also sought to teach kids about acceptance, forgiveness and self-esteem. Steven Universe was never about "pacifism", "upholding the status quo", "forgiving abusers" or "being nice to fascists". It was never intended to be a "complex work for adults" yet it was/is treated with adult expectations. If you want complex works for adults, watch the films of Coppola, Scorsese, De Palma and Nolan; read Watchmen and Berserk (For the record, I have nothing any of the adult work mentioned. In fact, I enjoy them immensely). Steven Universe is none of those things, it is for children and that is okay. I understand it not appealing to everyone. Yes, the metaphors could be messy; yes, there were weak filler episodes; yes, character-development and plotlines were rushed due to forces out of the crew's hands yet it is still beautiful in its own way. Steven Universe is a hopepunk masterpiece and I will die on this hill defending it.

Zack, take it away:

[rhaenin-time]

If you reread the Dance portion of Fire and Blood after spending near any amount of time reading about how Empress Matilda was written about — not about Matilda herself, not the history, but specifically the historiography about how chroniclers and historians constructed narratives around Matilda — the story, Rhaenyra's story, becomes a lot less "ambiguous."

GRRM doesn't just know history, he knows historiography. He knew what he was doing. And it's a shame, and a little troubling, that so many people — including the writers of HotD — don't see it.

[autisticsupervillain]

So, remember that whole "Pearl was going to let Steven fall to his death" thing that people are still somehow shitting their pants over? Yeah, that's bullshit. Steven would've been fine.

Because Steven, even back in Season One, was durable enough to tank this big ass explosion at point blank and survive completely unharmed.

Like, he was holding on to the thing that caused it and he was fine. That fall wouldn't have killed him.

Sure, it was kinda a dick move for Pearl to not catch him, but A. She still showed concern despite the situation B. Character Development exists. And C. Believe it or not, good characters are allowed to do bad things. It's called being a three dimensional character. But if you don't understand that, then you shouldn't be watching Steven Universe in the first place.

[space--butterflies]

not to be a bitch, but it's feeling more and more like the fandom is reducing/has reduced Hunter to just being Willow's boyfriend Caleb, and nothing else lately.

[spop-romanticizes-abuse]

their crimes and problems with their redemption arcs under the cut!

catra:

crimes:

War crimes

Abuse of power

Corruption

Reckless endangerment

Psychological abuse

Assault

Terrorism

Attempted regicide

Attempted mass murder

Attempted world domination

Attempted cataclysm

Conspiracy

Mass destruction

Abduction & kidnapping

Unlawful imprisonment

Brainwashing

Theft

Torture

Treason

Usurpation

Coercion

Stalking

Mutilation

Aiding and abetting

Illegal use of weapons

Espionage

Crimes against peace

Crimes against Etheria

Altering reality

how was her redemption arc carried out?

she was only redeemed in the final season and her arc wasn't as drawn out as it should have been.

she never faces any consequences of her actions and is forgiven by her victims almost immediately, either after a vague apology or no apology at all.

she continues torturing and abusing people around her, especially her love interest, adora. her redemption arc doesn't mean anything since she never actually changes.

the diamonds:

crimes:

Multiple planetary conquests

Mass invasion

Mass terraformation

Attempted omnicide

Crimes against the universe

Cruel and unusual punishments

Unlawful executions

Slavery

Oppression

Propaganda

Abuse of power

Mass murder

Terrorism

Ecocide

Genocide

War crimes

Hate crimes

Corruption

Psychological abuse

Brainwashing

Unethical experimentation

Mass forced confinement

Mass destruction

Mass forced transmutations

how was their redemption arc carried out?

same as catra, their redemption was done during the final few episodes of steven universe, and it was way too sudden to be realistic.

they never face any consequences of their actions and still gets to retain their positions as cosmic rulers.

they do, however, seem to put in some effort to change, although it's not clear if this is helpful. steven also does not seem to forgive them.

lilith clawthorne:

crimes:

Malediction

Attempted murder

Child endangerment

Hostage-taking

Kidnapping

Coercion

Malefic

Treason

Cheating

Torture

Abuse

Assault

Aiding and abetting

how was her redemption arc carried out?

she only had to make one sacrifice and that was the extent of her redemption arc.

she is also forgiven too quickly by the people she had hurt.

she does change for the better, and proves to be an ally to the heroes (albeit being an underutilized character).

sasha waybright:

crimes:

Abuse of power

Psychological abuse

Attempted murder

Treason

Terrorism

Harassment

Vandalism

Theft

Usurpation

Animal cruelty

Conspiracy

Kidnapping

Incrimination

Sabotage

Child endangerment

how was her redemption arc carried out?

we only see the beginning of her redemption, the rest of it happens almost entirely off-screen. this was a lazy choice, as we never see an actual “arc”, only the beginning and the end of it.

she is almost immediately forgiven by her friends. there is some lingering suspicion in some episodes, but not enough for everything she had done prior to that season.

however, she also seems to have turned into a better person and doesn't repeat any of her past toxic behaviour.