#su salt

[spop-romanticizes-abuse]

their crimes and problems with their redemption arcs under the cut!

catra:

crimes:

War crimes

Abuse of power

Corruption

Reckless endangerment

Psychological abuse

Assault

Terrorism

Attempted regicide

Attempted mass murder

Attempted world domination

Attempted cataclysm

Conspiracy

Mass destruction

Abduction & kidnapping

Unlawful imprisonment

Brainwashing

Theft

Torture

Treason

Usurpation

Coercion

Stalking

Mutilation

Aiding and abetting

Illegal use of weapons

Espionage

Crimes against peace

Crimes against Etheria

Altering reality

how was her redemption arc carried out?

she was only redeemed in the final season and her arc wasn't as drawn out as it should have been.

she never faces any consequences of her actions and is forgiven by her victims almost immediately, either after a vague apology or no apology at all.

she continues torturing and abusing people around her, especially her love interest, adora. her redemption arc doesn't mean anything since she never actually changes.

the diamonds:

crimes:

Multiple planetary conquests

Mass invasion

Mass terraformation

Attempted omnicide

Crimes against the universe

Cruel and unusual punishments

Unlawful executions

Slavery

Oppression

Propaganda

Abuse of power

Mass murder

Terrorism

Ecocide

Genocide

War crimes

Hate crimes

Corruption

Psychological abuse

Brainwashing

Unethical experimentation

Mass forced confinement

Mass destruction

Mass forced transmutations

how was their redemption arc carried out?

same as catra, their redemption was done during the final few episodes of steven universe, and it was way too sudden to be realistic.

they never face any consequences of their actions and still gets to retain their positions as cosmic rulers.

they do, however, seem to put in some effort to change, although it's not clear if this is helpful. steven also does not seem to forgive them.

lilith clawthorne:

crimes:

Malediction

Attempted murder

Child endangerment

Hostage-taking

Kidnapping

Coercion

Malefic

Treason

Cheating

Torture

Abuse

Assault

Aiding and abetting

how was her redemption arc carried out?

she only had to make one sacrifice and that was the extent of her redemption arc.

she is also forgiven too quickly by the people she had hurt.

she does change for the better, and proves to be an ally to the heroes (albeit being an underutilized character).

sasha waybright:

crimes:

Abuse of power

Psychological abuse

Attempted murder

Treason

Terrorism

Harassment

Vandalism

Theft

Usurpation

Animal cruelty

Conspiracy

Kidnapping

Incrimination

Sabotage

Child endangerment

how was her redemption arc carried out?

we only see the beginning of her redemption, the rest of it happens almost entirely off-screen. this was a lazy choice, as we never see an actual “arc”, only the beginning and the end of it.

she is almost immediately forgiven by her friends. there is some lingering suspicion in some episodes, but not enough for everything she had done prior to that season.

however, she also seems to have turned into a better person and doesn't repeat any of her past toxic behaviour.

[justmenoworries]

hey im sorry for bringing up SU salt stuff (feel completely free to discard this, i absolutely get it /g) but i feel like Rose was lowkey bastardized at some point..?? make no mistake, i do NOT expect her to be perfect (personally I think she peaked when we found out she shattered PD) but when it was revealed she was PD herself it just.. went rlly downhill, if that makes sense.. lowkey i think Rose n PD should've been two separate people, but thas just me saying. sorry about that ^^

.

[zoe-oneesama]

Between Fu and Su Han who do you feel is a worse mentor. In my opinion, Su Han is the worst, because all he does is turn up and get mad about something. He's like a Karen teacher. What are your thoughts?

Oh Su Han is CLEARLY worse! Fu, while definitely making a lot of weak choices, only had himself and kwamis to bounce off of to make those choices. He had incomplete, very bizarre training, and did at least TRY to protect the Miraculouses in his possession.

What did Su Han even do? Harass an old man, harass a little girl, taught the current guardian NOTHING, not even that neat little chant that ward off an akuma despite being the angriest mothafucka ever (which Marinette would probably greatly benefit from, you would think!), and then not even show up for...ANY of the akuma fights, let alone the one that won Hawkmoth ALL the Miraculouses!

He's a waste of space and waste of time, the whole Order was! I have problems with Fu, as long time readers no doubt know, but at least he was trying! Su Han can't even say that.

And he got off too easy for that.

[sophieabigail2021]

"How fandom react to criticism" wheel

[sneakingpasta]

11 NEW DANMEI LICENSES AND A FINALE!!!! WE FEAST IN 2025

[kittydoesthings]

Diamonds and Beasts and corruption oh my

[immaturityofthomasastruc]

You know, a person made the coment about how Gabriel shouldn't have been the main villain for so long, and I agree completely.

But besides Felix and Nathalie, there hasn't been a villain who is also a Miraculous holder, or at least who wishes the miraculouses of Ladybug and Chat Noir for themselves, which is... Strange, because we are talking about a wish to modify reality!

Many people, organizations, and even governments would want a piece of that! Hell, even Chloe would want some of that! Gabriel shouldn't have been the only person who was uncomfortable with his life! (And akumas do not count, because it has been well established that they are Monarch's VICTIMS)

You know what would have been great? More villains interested in the miraculouses when Gabriel was still around, you know why? Because it would not only challenge Marinette and cemented the idea of "Ladybug and Chat Noir against the WORLD", but would have also challenged GABRIEL, because now not only Gabriel would have to get Ladybug and Chat Noir's Miraculouses to get what he wants, now he would also have to get them FIRST.

Which means he would have to be on amert 24/7, becuase if it's not one of his akumas who gets the miraculouses, it would be another villain, WHICH HE CAN'T ALLOW, he would have to change his strategies, negotiate, scheme more, watch out for his own ass because he would also have people wanting to find out who he is, search for info, USE HIS BRAIN, and even serve as an excuse for Ladybug ans Chat Noir to find out who he is, because he would be dealing with so much shit he would get sloppy one day or another and give himself away!

It would have been a change of pace and made the show interesting because it would have challenged everyone, but somehow Thomas decides to take the most boring decisions for the show...

You know who could have been an interesting wild card to add to the show's rogues' gallery? Su-Han.

Think about it. He's the leader of the Order of the Guardians, the people connected to protecting the Miraculous, the show already hinted at the Guardians not being perfect due to how they caused Fu to accidentally destroy their temple, and Su-Han is trained in a martial art designed specifically to fight Miraculous users.

What if, instead of making sporadic appearances where he does nothing but yell at Ladybug, Su-Han starts opposing both Ladybug and Monarch's factions? What if he believes none of the characters should be using Miraculous, so he and the Guardians try to take away everyone's Miraculous?

That way, you'd have a third party threatening both the heroes and villains, a chance to expand on the show's lore, and possibly create situations where Ladybug and Cat Noir have to team up with Monarch.

[dotpyenji]

happy bisexual day to those who celebrate

[spop-romanticizes-abuse]

if you watched steven universe, i'd like to know your thoughts on lapis? ive seen some people say catra is written better than her

i have watched steven universe and i didn't like lapis tbh. i think both lapis and catra are not very different when it comes to character development. however, as far as i remember, apart from trying to drown steven and connie that one time, lapis didn't do anything too heinous. her relationships with jasper and peridot were pretty messed up, which is why i'm glad they didn't make either of those ships canon.

jasper's and lapis's relationship/fusion was supposed to be toxic so it's not really a problematic thing, although i do think they could have addressed the fact that lapis also contributed to the toxicity, rather than painting her as the victim. i do think she owed peridot an apology, she didn't deserve that instant forgiveness from peridot.

anyway, i think the main difference here is that lapis wasn't the main villain like catra was (because, let's be real, catra was the main villain of s1-4, not hordak). she was pretty bad but she wasn't as coddled by the writers as catra was. steven universe was generally bad at redeeming antagonists (with the exception of peridot) so lapis just feels like another example of that. she was not a war criminal and didn't commit atrocity after atrocity like catra did, and she didn't get a happily ever after with her victims. she stayed friends with peridot and didn't seem to repeat any of her toxic habits afterwards, so i'm glad they left it at that. i feel like her redemption was just 1% better than catra's.

[clownsuu]

PLEASE TELL ME THERE ARE C AI’s OF THE MOB AU (MOSTLY WALLY AND HOWDY)

Yeyeyeye, there is one of howdy and wally! And I think Barnaby too by someone else-

[hella-marshmella]

Which is the most pointless character in all of ML (other than Adrien of course)?

This is a tough one tbh, but if I gotta pick one…

Su-Han

because really, what impact did he have on the plot?? Fu was more of a substantial character and mentor than him. It would be different if he was a more consistent presence in the show and actually took over Fu’s mentor role to Adrichat and Maribug, but he doesn’t.

He appears a grand total of four times in 2 seasons and does practically nothing. He threatens to take back the miraculous/miracle box from Maribug, and after they prove they’re fine, he fucks off to teach Mirakung Fu to Luka, Jagged and Penny in Brazil for reinforcements in the finale. What a waste of a character.

[sophieabigail2021]

[miraculouslbcnreactions]

Steven Universe handled the dead mom situation better than Miraculous Ladybug, just saying.

Rose Quartz haunts the narrative. Emilie Agreste could be replaced with Gabriel having cancer or being terrified of his company failing and nothing meaningful would change.

[jin-zixun]

I'm trying to make a post on the villain squad that isn't salty towards wwx and lwj and I'm not doing well. So I'll try to make it quick.

The villain squad haven't actively done anything evil for years. All of their actions in the current time are reactions to other characters who want them dead.

The fatal flaw that gets them in the end isn't that they turn on each other or that they don't care, they actually care too much. It isn't having bad plans or bad teamwork or doing bad things or doing things badly, they just are always, always weaker than the heroes.

They never have the upper hand, they're desperate and still never have enough leverage to even get away with their lives. They are completely outdone by power alone. The power of the heroes. Who want them to die. They're defined by their powerlessness in, like, every way.

They're the outcasts, they're the underdogs, they're the ones trying to survive and also the ones making things better (well. well ok maybe not xue yang on that last part. but like. whatever.) with the systems that are in place. And they are never enough. Not enough to save each other, not enough to save themselves. Boxed into a fate with no other choice, just like it's always been and no one wants to hear it and now no one ever will.

[sophfandoms53]

Keanu Reeves Shadow rumor circulating…. I got my eye on you

[immaturityofthomasastruc]

Suhan was done dirty. They can’t differentiate between character flaws and Order’s flaws and end up mixing the two due to Suhan’s incompetent yet competent portrayal. Some flaws Suhan has is tied to the order even when they don’t make sense like with the Akuma training thing. They don’t even acknowledge that the situation IS rather dire and that Suhan CAN help bring a sense of mental stability to Mari’s suffering through some training because they don’t wanna admit Fu was flawed in his ways.

The show really wants to let the audience know that the Order was very flawed, but we never get any indication that they methods were actually wrong since it was Fu breaking the rules that led to their downfall. Even with Su-Han, they make it out like it was just him that was the problem with the Order, given how strict he is about the rules Fu himself never followed.

I don't get what the point of Su-Han is if he doesn't become another mentor for Marinette or an antagonist with his own goals, because he's just so underutilized in this show.