#yes I understand aroace people can be in relationships

[caramel-cream50]

Controversial opinion but I find it weird as fuck that the character that seems to be shipped the most in the hazbin Hotel fandom is aroace..

[triangular-static]

look i understand if people just don't like the idea of billford, i think we have a different internal concept of what shipping means (they're not good for each other at all but i need to dissect their dynamic like a bug. you understand. it's fun) but it's fine to avoid things you don't like, good for you genuinely

however people saying they like. don't see it. like. i'm not saying there's no platonic way to read it, i'm aroace spec myself i'm all for reading things in different ways. but i do think saying they weren't partners in any queer sense at all is trying too hard to go against what the narrative is trying to say, or missing it. somehow

anyway media literacy time if a character makes a joke like this

and the previous context of that joke within the show is that it's about an ex wife. what connection do you think the text is trying to get you to make.

and that's just from a writing point of view. not even noting that from an in universe perspective ford likely knows the joke from the same source as stan. and is therefore. placing himself in that role of the joke are you seeing where i'm coming from

(not to mention bill's side of this text which is. extremely manipulative but also does not read very platonic. again, it can technically be read as platonic! bill literally can manipulate ford's feelings. but the specific wording used is very much meant to look like possessive ex partner wording whether the character means it that way or not. it's coding. look again i'm not saying it was good for them i'm just saying there was something there.)

and then there's also the divorce/break up/rock bottom input on the website. like. how else is that supposed to be read. and the corresponding page in the book itself.

the language being used here. like yes he's saying it in a joking way but then there's the other side that isn't joking which is him crying at the bar. it's the both sides (the very coded language on top of the very genuine emotions and dynamic beneath)

i know most of us are on the same page with this i've just seen a couple people saying they don't see it when this is some of the most clear cut coding i've ever seen. and these are just the things that explicitly reference a relationship off the top of my head i'm not even including the general vibes of Everything

tl;dr it's barely even subtext anymore it's all but straight up text. what's not clicking have we forgotten what coding is (lighthearted i just enjoy the phrase what's not clicking. what's not clicking)

[infizero]

i think interpreting dynamics that dont have any canon basis to be familial as familial is totally fine but a) you cannot act like this is canon fact and, in tandem with that, b) you cannot attack people for interpreting it differently. believe me i am all for killing people who sexualize ACTUAL familial/familial-coded dynamics with knives but you have got to understand that just bcuz these two characters are friends does not mean they are siblings and it does not mean you get to get mad at others when they inevitably ship them

[stillgeekingout]

#it's very strange #because i often feel like the culmination of those characters arcs #like if the point is they're ace great but like... #the option of lesbianism just *never* occurs #which--and again not to discredit any ace people or ace readings of her work--is such a common lesbian experience! #like myself and a bunch of other lesbians i know had that journey #of going 'hmm i don't like men... guess I'm asexual! (do not ask me about women i will combust)' #like lady bird... whatever #little women... alright i suppose if you wanted to make a comentary on how lma was forced to add the heterosexual romance at the end #and not suggest anything about a real person and also not deviate from the source material #but barbie was insane #the coding was next level #like c'mon birkenstocks??? #and i argue that barbies acceptance of genitalia could be read as an acceptance of sexuality or the very least exploring it #so why isn't she a dyke??? (other than mattel probably giving a hard no on that)

I don’t know, the thing that really bothers me about Greta Gerwig’s films is that there is just this gaping hole where gay women should be. Like, when you’re making these movies about the trap of heterosexual marriage, breaking free of that, and the only concrete answer is to be a single woman over and over and over again, it feels like an intentional absence. You can watch the movie with a queer lens, but it is egregious that you may only consider homosexuality in her movies in this way. It ought to be in them. There is no reason for it not to be there. Women don’t fuck women in Greta Gerwig’s feminist liberations. Often, they don’t have sex at all.

[llilyrose]

llilyrose spends her time analyzing aroace stuff. yay.

isat spoilers afoot

what i especially like about the way adrienne wrote mira's orientation is the lack of room for interpretation. yes they snuck aroace talk into fantasy france, but just stop and think for a minute. what would happen if mira just said "i'm aroace" or "i don't feel love the same way" instead of all the nuance we got to her character in the friend quest convo?

we know she's sex repulsed, we know she's romance repulsed. we know she loves fiction that has those things in it, loves interpreting fictional characters that way, but can't bare to see herself in that situation. it makes a lot of sense with regards to her location (vaugarde, a very sex-positive and romance-adamant country) and also with regards to herself (the way she feels about her environment). Of course she wouldn't blame other folk around her for engaging with their religion the "correct" way, of course she'd internalize all her feelings of being outcast and turn it back on herself.

The fandom respects this! Nobody ships her romantically, or sexually, because we know she's not into that. We know she would never and i know a bunch of people who would punch you for even thinking it!

Now what if Adrienne hadn't put this in the game? What if they had just said on their tumblr one day, "mira's aroace," or something. where would we be now? aspec shipping discourse would definitely take the reins. we'd have people shipping her in all kinds of different ways, bending the aroace character to the best of their ability because they could still be into sex, or romance, or whatever. this is TRUE, it's POSSIBLE, but there's no nuance. We wouldn't know the way Mira really feels about these things unless Adrienne told us, so a lot of people would either ignore/"work around" her identity or just wouldn't even know about it to begin with!

Introducing mira's orientation in the way adrienne did leaves no room for discourse. we know if she's sex-positive, sex-negative, how she reacted to finding out she was, etc. It provides so much more representation than a simple "I'm aroace" ever could. It's such a wide label, so finally having CONCRETE information about a canonical aroace's experiences with their orientation is so, so freeing and honestly quite refreshing. and it's worked into the story seamlessly!!!

She's not an emotionless carcass with no capacity for love, she's not outwardly detesting sex or romance at every possible moment, she's simply a well-rounded character who happens to be aroace. You have time to warm up to her before ever even finding out about her orientation! Or having any clue at all (barring maybe the suspicious sketches)!!!!! Aroace people are real!!! We're so real!!!!

Speaking of the suspicious sketches! We know siffrin's alloace (from, like, one line of dialogue), but we don't know if he's sex-repulsed. Adrienne's gone on record to say "aces can still have sex" in reference to siffrin, so I'm inclined to believe he has at least some sort of libido.

When looking at the sketches, both him and mira have a repulsed reaction. I think there are three possible reasons for Siffrin here!

Siffrin is sex-repulsed and has a visceral reaction to them because he thinks it's gross.

Siffrin has no libido because the stress overrides everything in his system. That combined with his ace identity would probably lead to a distaste for the papers.

Some people would NOT GET THE MEMO from the act 3 friendquest. Sometimes when you're writing you have to account for the gamers being really really dense. Some people didn't even understand the Isa friendquest was him coming out as trans basically. Since Ace characters are hard to "prove" unless they explicitly state they dislike sex, this line of dialogue might've just been there to drill it in that Siffrin is ace because the only other place we see that implication is one line in the friendquest. It could even have no tie to his relationship with sex, who knows?

one of these options is not like the others! /silly

I couldn't tell you which one of those it is, but i think at least one of them had to have hit the mark. It's a lot harder to decode siffrin's sexuality when we only get like 5 lines of dialogue total that vaguely even reference it

With this we come back to the issue from earlier: He could be demi, he could be ace, he could be sex-repulsed, he could not! Most people write them sex-repulsed and I'm personally on that bandwagon, but interpreting them a different way isn't any less correct unless you completely ignore the fact they're ace in the first place.

Even sex-positive aces have complicated relationships with sex. Some do it for the gratification, some simply have higher libido and can't think of a different way to get it out, and others only do it to please their partner.

I think writing an ace character as sex-positive should be seen as a character study instead of an excuse to ship two characters together. Is this character the type to even enjoy it in the first place? How often? How do they interact with it? Etc. Which I think is what Adrienne was talking about when she said "aces can still have sex." We don't know about siffrin's identity, we don't have a grasp on the nuance, but we do know he's ace and that he experiences love differently from the way mirabelle does, and the way isabeau does, and the way odile does, and what have you.

I love love love the representation we get in isat. An aroace, an alloace, and someone that a lot of fans headcanon as aroallo though it's unconfirmed. Even if Odile's not aro, we still get that line of dialogue about not finding romance suitable for her at the moment, which speaks true to a different experience altogether. No two characters experience love, experience life the same in isat. That's why i get to make a tumblr text post that's a bit too long exploring the different avenues adrienne took when writing the characters lol :')

[queenbeedarling]

Tried to explain to my sister and her husband that my girlfriend and I (both of us are aroace-spec) are in a queer platonic relationship, and their exact words were, "There's not a relationship that exists like that." So I gave up, and they now think we're in a romantic relationship because I'd rather them think we're dating because it's easier.

I also told them that I believe she's my platonic soulmate, and he said that soulmates can't be platonic. When I told him that, yes, they absolutely can be, he asked what mate meant thinking he had me beat. Like, yeah, mate can mean mating, but it can also mean friend, Harold. Do you not know about words with double meanings? Did you not graduate kindergarten?

They also think the fact that we say we love each other and cuddle is because we're romantically in love, so, again, easier for us for them to just believe we're dating.

I don't know why it's so hard for them to understand, but I don't feel like having to constantly explain myself and be told that my relationship "isn't real" or "doesn't exist"

Allo people, ugh 🙄😒

[pigidin]

OKAY. Am I the only one fascinated by how much Alastor in s1 has interacted with other demons and built a potential for considerable amount of different, broad and unique relationships? With All of them being non-romantic/sexual?

I really don't wanna dive into the discourse of shipping coz honestly, I do think that erasing Al's aroaceness is not cool at all. Personally, I don't see him wishing any romance/sex at all, and well. Considering how platonic he actually is throughout the season, it kinda seems like people forget that friendship (or basically anything non rom-sex) exists in the first place.

Coz, like, let's see what we got::

Vox -- probably one-sided (psychosexual) crush from Vox with possible past friendship between them, them hating on each other yet having (used to have) some respect as well. The ANGST, the drama (for both of sides). Insert aroace troubles (possible aphobia from Vox? Or not? He may be biggest ally as well!) and Vox's petty feelings that are insanely interesting to explore (and laugh at).

Lucifer -- immediate hate that (with a course of events) can turn into forced bonding. The potential of queerplatonic parenting of Charlie is HUGE here. Insecurities from Al? Forced care? Banters? SHENANIGANS? Luci patching up Al after battle, prolly discovering his deal and them slowly bonding on shared interests? Hey.

Rosie -- literal established queerplatonic partners, married for tax benefits, spending their evenings gossiping, hating on Susan and Al rolling his eyes on another romance-rel drama Rosie was trying to help sb with. Rosie can have insane influence on him whether it is understanding modern things or just being with him when he needs it. It also gives off mom/son to me.

Husk -- fucked up master-pet not-friendship with probable care rooted since they were closer in past. Is it toxic? Yes. Is it giving off some problematic dynamic? Sure. Yet it's fucking complex on its core considering pilot, bits and pieces of their interaction and how easily Husk used to insult Al until he overstepped. Them two are quite similar if you think about it and if Al got over his ego it could benefit him a lot.

Niffty -- daugther/father dynamic with them sharing one sadistic-psycho braincell and genuinely enjoying each other's quirks. Protective Al? I just need more Niff and them two being partners in the most outrageous crimes.

Mimzy -- friendship going since they were humans, with them having an amazing (potential) backstory of sharing evenings on two. Al enjoying her company as well as being protective and helpful to her with nothing in return.

Charlie -- manipulated into trusting you as a dad figure? Don't tell me there is nothing below Al's creepy plans or that he wouldn't grow to care for her. He already is proud of her and finds amusement in her inspiration-skills (also, performance is his thing for a reason)

Angel -- I was honestly kinda upset we didn't see any interactions between them except one sex joke, coz my past era of Hunicasts was a fuel to their duo. Them bonding over how different they are is the best description of their dynamic. Also banters and body-puns.

You can't just erase Alastor from interacting with people, but putting him inside boxes of allonormative relationships while he has such a fucking huge potential for everything beyond just that - is quite.. disappointing. People turning a blind eye to a wide variety of relationships he can have (potential to which is set in canon) for the sake of just romance/sex is low key sad.

It's AWESOME to see ppl actually understanding it and.. damn THANKS to everyone who explores Al's relationship with others without it involving final wish to stick tongues into places. Dynamics can be interesting and exciting without it.

I really don't wanna project my romance-aversion onto Al, but when romance and sex is one thing you see everywhere.. it's hard to just let it slip.

You are allowed to do whatever you want, exploring physical intimacy is fun as well, and having Al, well, there are bunch of ways to show it with respecting his orientation and the fact that IT AFFECTS RELATIONSHIPS/ATTRACTIONS but please just don't make it the center of your attention, the one thing relationship revolves around, coz sadly it's just exactly how it looks like from some folks.

[exvangelical-christian-nerd]

tw discussion of aphobia and sexuality

One thing I absolutely love about Hazbin Hotel is the diversity of representation in it. However I do note a lack of respect for that same diversity in the Fandom and it infuriates me. Yes, I am primarily talking about Alastor. Alastor is canonically AroAce. There seems to be a complete disregard for that in a large portion (though not all of course) of the Fandom. I've seen him shipped with Lucifer, Vox, Rosie, and Angel. I also want to say I've seen him shipped with Charlie and Vaggie, though, fortunately, not particularly commonly. Now I do understand that desire and attraction are not necessarily synonymous. Dude, I’m aro (specifically demi-ro) and allos3xual ( bi specifically), I'm familiar. I also know QPRs are a thing. However the implications in the vast majority of shipping posts is not that a desire (without attraction) is being filled or that the relationship is a QPR. It is an implication of romantic and/or (usually and) s3xual attraction and chemistry. Also in addition to the attraction situation there's another issue I have with these ships, I would say canonically it is implied that Alastor is not only AroAce, but is also sex repulsed (I'm not going to go into my arguments for that in this post, but maybe in another). Now if you're looking at me going “Didn't the creator say we could ship anybody with anybody” or “it doesn't really matter,” Let me put a question to you. If you saw a character who was canonically confirmed to be lesbian, and a large portion of people in the Fandom started constantly shipping her with every single man in the cannon, would you still have this same level of apathy? I doubt it. If people were excusing it with “it’s just my headcanon ” or “the creator said we can ship anybody” would that change anything? No that would still be lesbian erasure I'm pretty sure I'd be seeing a lot of posts with people up in arms about it, right? Why aren't we bringing the same energy here. It's the same thing. This is AroAce erasure. Now if you're saying, and I've seen people say this kind of thing, “it's just a character it doesn't matter. Pick something that does,” Yes it does matter. There are very, very few confirmed AroAce characters, just in general. We know that representation matters. Also aphobia is a problem not only outside, but also inside of the LGBTQ + community. There are people who tell aro and ace people they aren’t really part of the LGBTQ+ community, even to the extent of not allowing them in LGBTQ+ spaces. Our character representation deserves the same respect as yours. We deserve respect.

[our-aroace-experience]

I always thought I was aroace until I met my best friend and got really confused, because I would think about them a lot and I would (after spending a lot of time together) get the fluttery feeling when I was with them. But I've never wanted anything sexual with her.. I think kisses and sex are kinda gross and a waste of time. And we've even talked about it, she doesn't like that stuff either. That's how close and comfy with each other we are. I also talked about it with my therapist and basically my therapist thought it was a crush. If I HAD to put a label on it, I'd agree that "crush" is probably closest. The no sex thing was fine, and actually common for some people like me: some people on the autism spectrum. Anyway, months later, I'm on a walk with best friend and she's talking about their sexuality and they say so smoothly "yeah and I think I have a crush on you." ?!?!?!?!??!!??!?!?!??!!? OH MY GOD. Holy cow. okay. wow. if someone else had said that to me, I would've been weirded out. I always thought dating was weird and never understood it. But when SHE said it? I got so excited and flustered and I said I think I had a crush on them and we talked. We were confused though because we were like "well, what now? are we dating??" because we didn't wanna kiss and stuff but still we felt like. attached? close? to each other. and what's the point of dates? lets just hang out and chill. we didn't really put a label on it. It's a Qpr, I guess? we're girlfriends, partners, whatever. remember in the jaiden animations video where she says she thought having a partner was just like having an extra special friend or whatever? that's us!! my partner is simply my person. I love them. also after the walk and talk, they asked me "so wanna get married on stardew?" we're both obsessed with the game. I said yes. Im just amazed because I've had other close friends say they had crushes on me but I was always just like "oh :(" because I never understood. and honestly I don't think I do still. but her. my favorite person in the whole world. they understand me. I understand her. we're each other's special person and that's all that matters to me. I love the aroace spectrum because relationships like mine exist and we can feel valid because there's others like us and I just. wow. its just special.

i’m so happy to hear it! best wishes to you and your partner!

[cledubs]

i really don’t understand how some fantasy high enjoyers don’t see the very obvious metaphor for aromantic denial within baron from the baronies in sophomore year. baron is a nightmare creature that came into existence because riz lied about having a partner so his friends wouldn’t bother him about it? he made up baron when his friends were all talking about the people they wanted to kiss? how is that not aromantic to some people. maybe it’s more obvious to me because i HAVE been in denial about being aro and made up crushes for myself and tried to pretend i had them. just because i felt it was a thing i needed to do, that it was a thing that EVERYONE had to have a crush and that it was normal. how do you see the confrontation between baron and riz as anything other than accepting aromanticism. this thing, his nightmares personified, says to him “the years will go by, and everyone will find someone that matters more to them than you.” as an aro person yeah that’s gotta be up there with the top ten nightmares.

how do you look at this interaction and NOT see an aromantic boy.

(for further elaboration, yes i am aware that aromantic people CAN want to kiss others and hell yeah power to you, i’m just saying that it’s a common thing to not care about kissing/not want to do it)

and another thing with with the fhigh fandom is that like, some people will go through every loophole they can to try and pair up riz anyways. aromantic people CAN be in relationship, of course, but why would people take this specific boy, who has repeatedly expressed distaste in being in a relationship, and ship him with other people. especially since fabian and riz is a common ship. is it because they’re best friends? is it because people value romance over friendship? oh they’re such close friends they must have a thing! it’s so stupid. why is it, that when a character is asexual (riz, being confirmed asexual), people respect that. they don’t often go “oh yeah i know they’re asexual but asexual people can have sex! or want to have sex! it’s a spectrum!”. (that is true, btw, ace people can have sex and all that. but it’s different when allosexual people do it to try and just make up excuses to not treat asexual characters like they’re asexual.) why do i mostly see it done with aromantic people? one of this boy’s biggest fear is people pairing up and leaving him behind. how do you see that as a boy who WANTS to be in a relationship? do you think he WANTS to pair up as well?

just because it’s not been outwardly confirmed and directly said “riz gukgak is aromantic” doesn’t mean that it’s not true, y’know? there’s subtext, there’s symbolism, there’s metaphors, there’s DIRECT REFERENCES TO RIZ NOT LIKING ROMANCE! i don’t really know how people can see him as alloromantic

anyways thank you for coming to my ted talk, this is sam (confirmed aroace) signing off or something

(also some of my non-aro, romance enjoying friends have confirmed that the aro implications are very obvious so clearly it’s not just an aro brain thing to understand)

[fastidious-and-a-mess]

guys can we PLEASE stop shipping riz w people. honestly at this point i kind of don’t even care if you yourself are also acespec/arospec/aspec.

yes, aspec people can be in relationships, etc etc, but riz specifically has expressed over and over and over again that that is something he personally has absolutely zero interest in.

he’s not just canonically aroace, he also canonically does not want a relationship.

“aroace people can be happy in romantic/sexual/queerplatonic relationships” is a true statement. “people who do not want to be in any kind of monogamous committed relationship can be happy in a monogamous committed relationship” is quite a bit harder to argue.

i’m just so sick of it. i’m glad we all understand that there’s nuance to aspec identities, and everyone’s expressions of and experiences with their own aspec identities are going to be different and personal.

like, it’s not even just about the asexual/aromantic aspect anymore. it’s also just refusing to let him not want to be in a relationship. why are so many people so resistant to the idea that he does not want to be in a relationship. like genuinely, why can you not accept that there are people who just don’t want that. who would just be unhappy in a relationship. why can’t you wrap your head around the idea that wanting a relationship is not a thing that everyone secretly wants. like, No, he hasn’t just not “met the right person” yet. because there is no right person. because he’s simply not interested.

this post is kind of rambly and not as effectively phrased as it could be i think but idc.

TL;DR: riz being aroace is not the only reason to not ship him. he also, explicitly and repeatedly, has stated he does not want to be in a relationship. “aspec people can be in relationships” is completely irrelevant because regardless riz simply does not want a relationship. please just respect thag.

edit: plz don’t like this is u wont rb. i won’t guilt you into rbing, it’s ur blog i’m not ur dad do what u want etc etc. it’s just irritating for me personally to see ppl interacting w this but not willing to actually put it on their blogs.

[fullofbees]

Obey Me Brothers with an AroAce MC!

I know it's technically July 1st but shhhhhhhhh

CW: None!

»»----------► Reader is Gender Neutral

He would be the most nonchalant about it. When you first come out to him, he lifts his head from the desk, staring at you confused. You sweat, about to overexplain before he interrupts you with a question. 

“Will this affect our relationship as it exists now?”   You shake your head, “Of course not, I’m more than content.”  He nods, returning to the paperwork on his desk, the silence only broken by the scribbles of his pen. You remain in place, now the one staring in confusion.  When he notices you haven’t left, he raises his head, “Everything alright?”  “I’m just shocked. Most people have a few... follow-up questions.”  Lucifer shrugs, “Lust isn’t my department.” 

He would first ask a million questions trying to understand. It’s not that I don’t think Mammon couldn’t understand, I think it’s more that he genuinely does not care what you identify as, but he wants to learn about you so he’s going to pester you about it. So long as you remain his friend, and he gets to retain his bragging rights as your first demon, you’ll always be cool. 

You try to keep up as he drags you down the street.   “Mammon, why do I need to go the casino with you again?”  The demons rolls his eyes like you just asked the most ridiculous question in the world, “Pffft! You’re my lucky charm of course.”   “I am not playing the slots for you!”  You almost ram straight into his back when he abruptly stops.   “Don’t need ya to. I’ll be sure ta win with an ace up my sleeve!”   Now its your turn to roll your eyes, at least so you don’t have to look at his smug face. It’ll only encourage him. 

When you first explain your orientation to Levi, he is excited. You know Levi gets easily flustered when it comes to emotions, but he’s made great strides to let you see his vulnerability, so in the end you decided to show yours too. It still doesn’t mean you were expecting him to start on another anime ramble. 

“That makes so much sense!! I mean in My Whole Life I’ve Been a Cat but A Wizard Recently Made Me Human and Now I Have to Attend High School Where a Pack of Dogs Is Out to Get Me Because I’m The Adopted Daughter of Their Rival Gang Leader, the protagonist never receives a love interest! I totally thought they were retconning the manga when they had her turning down every declaration of love but her being aroace would fit the storyline so much better--” 

Already understands; you don’t even have to explain the terms to him. 

“Wait, you.. Know what I’m talking about?”  The demon glances up at you from his book, “That is what I just said.”  “Wha- from what- how?” You hate blathering incoherently, especially in front of Satan, but his reaction is not what you were expecting.  The demon raises his book so that you can see the cover, “Sherlock Holmes.”  You process the comical nature of this interaction before quipping back, “Yes, I suppose it is elementary.” 

Would probably go overboard in his support. Of course he means well, he’s just excited!! He goes out of his way to stay up-to-date on the tea news of the community; and honestly, he probably finds you the most obscure pride merch. 

“You should let me paint your nails the colors of the flag, hon!”  You stare down at your plain, dry nailbeds. They are definitely overdue some TLC.  “I don’t know if I want to be that on the nose about it...”  “Oh hush, I’ve never disappointed you before, have I?” He says with a giggle and a wink, “C’mon, chop chop! Off to my studio!”   “You mean your room?” You tease.  “Studiiiioo~”  

Finds out because he overheard you discussing the garlic bread and cake memes.  

“Aroace cake.... sound delicious, what’s in it?” The hungry demon asks just after his signature stomach growl.  “It’s not a real cake, Beel,” says Levi.  The poor demon’s face drops, now pouting as he looks down at his aching stomach.   “Beel, you okay?”  He dejectedly sulks out of the room and towards the kitchen, muttering to himself about the cake being a lie. 

I think Belphie would understand it to a startling degree. He has never had any serious relationships himself, finding that he already feels fulfilled with his friends and family. Perhaps you can help him explore this new revelation.  

“Mmm, it must be nice, actually. Less time wasted, more time for naps.”  “I never thought of it like that before... I should take more naps.”  He nods with a sleepy grin, patting the cushion next to him, “Who needs a thirst trap when you can have your first nap?” 

•••✦ ❤ ✦••• Submit A Request •••✦ ❤ ✦•••

A/N: Happy Pride Month from your fellow aroace author! Wishing you all the best <3

[olderthannetfic]

Is there a label for people who don't feel sexual or romantic attraction and have no desire to get into a relationship or have sex? I used to use aroace, but people on my campus, in my fanfic notes and in my dorm building keep telling me aces have sex and aces have romance, and when I try to say I'm aroace, they just repeat, "Ace people date." "Ace people get laid." "Ace people are normal." And... well, I'm not normal. I don't want to date and bang and all of that and forcing myself to do so always made me miserable. Back when I found the term ace, I was happy, because I thought it applied to me. But after every. single. person. I mention I'm ace to informing me ace = dates, has sex I'm realizing I don't have a label that actually describes someone like me who isn't normal. (One guy at a dorm floor activity asked if I had a mental illness, since he figured that would be the only thing that made someone not want to have relationships or sex. None of the other queer people present said anything. Two nodded.)

I tried Googling to figure something out, but it just kept giving me the wrong answer (aroace). Then I figured hey, OTNF knows a shit ton about queerness. If anyone can tell me what label actually applies to people like me, it's you.

--

Hah. I'm no expert on this stuff. Nobody was talking about it in my youth. (Yes, I know we have documentation of college queer groups including the word 'asexual' on their signs from long before my time, but it just wasn't a thing in any of the queer books and magazines I read in the 90s or circles I ran in until the last five to ten years.)

The issue you're running into is simply that the term is too broad, covering people who are definitely not experiencing attraction to others but still enjoy sex to people who... well... it's uncharitable, but there are some people where I wonder if the main reason they identify that way is that they have a very faulty understanding of what attraction looks like for others.

But it certainly does include people with no interest in sex or dating.

[jasper-pagan-witch]

do you have any divination opinions that aren't just "tarot is overrated"? it seems like that one is everybody's go-to

As someone who practices tarot, I too agree that it's pretty overrated. But that's beside the point.

My main opinion about divination is informed by running a tarot-reading blog (that I am thiiiis fucking close 🤏 to shuttering [my fingers are touching]). I believe that people are way too concerned about how things "will go" and aren't concerned enough with their role in it.

When I receive asks and divination requests, I notice that a lot of people are really passive in the way they frame their questions. This is most often seen in the form of "How does X feel about me?" and "How are my finals/school tests going to go?"

That second one makes me stop and go "Sugar, honey, are you studying?"

Because there are things that truly do just "happen" in life. But school tests are not one of those, especially for my college-age and college-learning querents. I understand anxiety about the test, gods know I get anxious about those too, but you can't be passive with tests. You have to actually take them and study for them.

The same, I believe, goes for connections with other people, especially through questions with implied romantic/sexual tension behind them, as is often the case for the "How does X feel about me?" type. If you want to know how X feels about you, you have to make a point to interact with and understand them. I never got questions that were geared more "active", such as "What can I do to get X to notice me?" or "What are some things I could do to better my relationship with X?"

Ignore the fact that I'm aroace and refuse to do relationship readings for a moment, because the querents looking for free readings sure do. The number of readings that I essentially "return to sender" without answering because they can't follow my guidelines is why I'm this fucking close to McSnapping.

And so many of the questions I get are just yes/no questions but reworded slightly to barely qualify as tarot-appropriate questions. Most of these rewords fail because they already assume one outcome is more inherent/innate than any others.

Thanks for sending this in, anon! I...did not realize I had this much to bitch about.

~Jasper

[felicjana050896]

Charlastor: ship or lie

Charlastor, a ship that has been bothering me lately, apparently we have confirmed that Charlastor will not happen (unfortunately, I haven't seen this confirmation from the author, only other people writing about it, as if someone had a screenshot of this confirmation directly saying "No, Charlastor won't happen", it would be nice to reblog with this screenshot :) )

This will be a long post, I recommend arming yourself with a lot of popcorn :)

Many people are against Charlastor, their arguments are:

Alastor is aroace: although I saw a lot of people who wrote that they are aroace and ace, and yet they ship Charlastor, because being both ace and aroace doesn't mean that you cannot be in a relationship, you can be, but this relationship will look a bit otherwise, all people who bring up this argument are shooting themselves in the foot and unfortunately it shows how many people have no idea what it means to be an ace or aroace and without any actual knowledge about it, explain to others what it means, it shows how people who don't like something are able to run blindly, as long as they stick to their opinion, instead of looking around and first looking for information and making sure that they are right, and it's not that difficult to get information, after all we live in the 21st century and we have the Internet...

,,Asexuality is understood as a state in which a person does not feel sexual attraction or desire for people of the same sex or the opposite sex, or for any other objects. An asexual individual usually does not engage in sexual behavior and does not feel the need for sexual contact. It is a permanent lack of sexual drive.

And we divide asexuality based on "romantic attraction":

aromantic is characterized by a lack of feeling romantic attraction.

biromantic – feel romantically attracted to more than one gender.

heteroromantic – feel romantic attraction to the opposite sex, homoromantic people feel romantic attraction towards people of the same sex.

panromantic – they experience romantic attraction to people regardless of gender.

So, most asexual people are still interested in forming romantic relationships, and what about aromantic asexuals... Aromanticism is a type of romantic orientation whose name itself indicates a lack of interest in creating romantic relationships. Aromantic people feel no (or only a little) romantic attraction to other people. Aromanticism is usually talked about in the context of asexual orientation, but in fact, romantic orientation applies to people of all sexual identities. It is wrongly assumed that aromantic people do not have sex or that they are unable to form relationships with others. Many issues regarding aromanticism require explanation and understanding, as well as the basics of distinguishing different types of attraction: sexual, romantic, aesthetic and sensual. Aromantic orientation does not assume a dissocial attitude or social isolation - aromantic people can have close people, form relationships and lead successful social and sexual lives."

So Alastor doesn't feel sexual attraction or romantic attraction, but it still doesn't mean he can't have a relationship with someone, he can, it just will look different, we could say that for most people who feel attraction and romantic, such a relationship, that the aroace person enters into can be described as platonic for us, but it will still be a relationship and attention... such people can still have sex: ,,There are two things to distinguish: sexual attraction and sexual behavior. The former is an impulse that pushes towards a certain person or situation. In the case of asexual people, it does not occur at all or very, very rarely. However, our bodies still respond to certain stimuli, and we can become horny and orgasm. So yes, there are asexuals who have sex - if only because they want to please their partners or, even if they don't feel the need, they know it will give them pleasure."

(All quotes above are from psychologists, and the last one is from an asexual person.)

Alastor will never fall in love and will never feel sexual attraction, but he can still have sex and can enter into a deeper relationship with someone.

Another argument is Charlie has a girlfriend: yes, he does, but it doesn't mean that this relationship will last forever, is there any confirmation from the author that it will never change(?), not saying that they are canon, because they are canon at the moment, but that they are canon and will always be canon, does anyone have such confirmation...(?), if so, please reblog it with a screenshot :)

Another is that Alastor sees Charlie as his daughter: this has already been confirmed by the author, that Alastor only said this to upset Lucifer and in fact, there is no father-daughter relationship between Alastor and Charlie. Link to tiktok where the author talks about it:

And the last argument, the rarest one, but still, that Charlie is too young or too naive for Alastor (twice in the comments, once on YT, another time on Tiktok, I even saw someone writing that this ship is pedophilia.....): age first:

Alastor is 40 biological years old (because he died at that age), and chronologically he is about 130 years old, link to info:

Charlie is biologically around 20, and chronologically over 2,000, link:

So if we take biological age, of course Alastor will be about 20 years older than Charlie, if we take chronological age, then Charlie will be so much older than Alastor that it's incomparable :D

But all this happens in hell, in an animated black comedy, so in my opinion such a thing doesn't matter much, because both of them don't age very much anyway, but coming to Charlie's naivety, Charlie is a lot, a lot, a lot... older than Alastor, so technically she should be more experienced and learned about life (especially in hell), so why isn't she... because in my opinion, Lilith and Lucifer kept her in a protective bubble of safety instead of her being convinced to in her own skin, what is living in hell..., that's why Charlie is so naive, sweet, etc., but nevertheless she still has the devil in herself..., we see it in the pilot, when she gets angry on TV, we see it in the series , when he gets mad at Susan in the cannibal town, we see it during the fight with Adam, Charlie is still part demon and he also has his dark part, which I think will become more and more visible in the series, not in the context of her becoming evil, but that she will become more experienced, self-confident and will be a born leader of hell, but for this she still needs to learn a little and remember that she is much more powerful than Alastor will ever be, she just needs to learn to use her powers ;)

Also in the future, in my opinion, Charlie will be much more powerful, with more power, experience, etc., than Alastor, Alastor will only be one of the most important catalysts for her, "she has so much potential that I could guide":

the question is whether Alastor will be in able to guide (control) her when she discovers her potential..., in my opinion: NO, and just as Alastor's deal with Charlie will bite Charlie, this attempt to use Charlie and direct her potential will bite him..., which in my opinion they will learn a lot from each other :)

So, the whole argument that Charlie will be manipulated by Alastor, that he would be the "stronger one in the relationship", in my opinion, will no longer make sense in the future, because this power dynamic will change... and besides, it would be strange if the princess hell didn't spread her wings at all throughout the entire series and remained just as naive, sweet, unaware and etc..., the characters must evolve.

And now that all the arguments against have been countered, it's time to move on to forshadowings.

Many people write that all these forshadowings are just fanservice, and sure, maybe... but it's really hard for me to believe that so many details like this would be done just for fanservice... it would be terribly rude and, in my opinion, bad writing, because sure, one forshadowing, two forshadowings, even three forshadowings don't do anything, but when you start getting four, five, SIX of them... it gets weird... and it's hard to say that it doesn't mean anything..., sorry, but for me, if there is so much of this, then either it will happen, or the creators are pigs doing something like this (let's be honest) for money..., so I believe that there must be something more here, but first before I will write about forshadowings, I will also refer to the canonical relationship, i.e. Chaggie, why I am against this relationship... because this relationship is, firstly, terribly boring in my opinion, in the context that I feel absolutely no chemistry between Vaggie and Charlie, nothing, zero, total null..., and Vaggie herself is an empty character for me, apart from her past, which did not affect her relationship with Charlie in any way, apart from a momentary (literally a tiny momentary) quarrel and had no real far-reaching consequences and apart from her getting a weapon to fight, she has no purpose in the show other than Charlie..., her entire being, her existence is based on Charlie, she takes care of the hotel for Charlie, she takes care of the residents for Charlie, she gets the weapons for Charlie, she does everything for Charlie, and don't get me wrong, on the one hand, it's great to have a girl who cares about you and cares so much, but, well..., apart from Charlie, she has no other reason for existence, she has no life, no goals, no desires, which makes her a characterless character, and I don't mean her personality per se, but her being as a character, who she is to the Hazbin Hotel arc apart from being Charlie's girlfriend... NOBODY and that terribly offends me if she got some actual development, or her past was better handled not in a "oh you were an angel, you didn't tell me, I'm mad at you" - five minutes later after talking to Rosie and Carmilla - "I forgive you, let's go back to the old way, as if your past didn't exist", why..., WHY..., why was it done this way....

Sometimes, even despite all of Vaggie's care and her involvement in Charlie, I think that this relationship is toxic, precisely because Charlie saved Vaggie, took her, and from that moment, it can be safely said that Vaggie became independent from Charlie, If it was a man-woman pair and the man saved the woman and then she was completely focused on him, just like Vaggie on Charlie, most people would probably call such a relationship toxic immediately without blinking an eye, because the woman is dependent on her savior... and why doesn't anyone think this way about Vaggie... after all, it's the same situation... so until they give me the development of Vaggie's character, some of her thread, HER and ONLY HER, I see this connection first of all no chemicals, and secondly, toxic for Vaggie... even though Vaggie became addicted to Charlie, in a sense, of her own free will (I don't see Charlie forcing her to do anything, that's not what I mean :D ). Besides, in the original and in Zoophobia, Vaggie was supposed to be Angel Dust's girlfriend:

and I regret that they don't have more closer interactions with each other in season one, because I'm curious what their dynamics would be, because maybe Angel Dust and Vaggie would have better chemistry... and I know that a lot of people ship Angel Dust with Husk, me too :) , but I would still like to see if the Vaggie + Angel Dust relationship would be better, especially since Vaggie and Angel Dust are characters that quickly reach for weapons, as Vaggie's caring nature could, in my opinion, help Angel Dust a lot, and Angel Dust with his more libertarian character (apart from his bond with Valentine) could cause Vaggie's development as a character with his own dreams, desires, etc., but this is just my thought :)

So finally moving on to forshadowings, even external ones, not only internal serial ones (I may edit this post, if I find more, new information will always be added to the bottom of the post):

The Shark Robot store, where the author sells various gadgets with her characters and couples..., focusing on couples, you can buy there: A couple of Moxxie and Millie, a married couple from the Helluva Boss series: stuffed animals: https://sharkrobot.com/collections/vivziepop/products/premium-moxxie-millie-plush-bundle-bonus-pins-pre-order ; puzzle: https://sharkrobot.com/collections/vivziepop/products/helluva-boss-moxxie-millies-lovely-date-1000-pc-puzzle ; standees https://sharkrobot.com/collections/vivziepop/products/fight-night-moxxie-millie-standee , https://sharkrobot.com/collections/vivziepop/products/moxxie-millie-build-a-snowman-standee ; pins: https://sharkrobot.com/collections/vivziepop/products/moxxie-millie-make-out-enamel-pin , https://sharkrobot.com/products/moxxie-millie-security-enamel-pin ; playmats: https://sharkrobot.com/collections/vivziepop/products/affectionate-moxxie-and-millie-playmat , https://sharkrobot.com/collections/vivziepop/products/moxxie-millie-playmat , https://sharkrobot.com/collections/vivziepop/products/moxxies-lovely-song-playmat ; pants: https://sharkrobot.com/collections/vivziepop/products/moxxie-millie-pattern-loungewear-pants

Next comes the couple Stolas and Blitz, a couple who sleep together and have feelings for each other, from the Helluva Boss series: puzzle: https://sharkrobot.com/collections/vivziepop/products/helluva-boss-blitz-stolas-romantic-evening-1000-pc-puzzle , mug: https://sharkrobot.com/collections/vivziepop/products/little-stolas-and-little-blitz ; playmat: https://sharkrobot.com/collections/vivziepop/products/stolas-and-blitz-playmat ; pin: https://sharkrobot.com/collections/vivziepop/products/when-stolas-met-blitz-jumbo-enamel-pin

Fizz and Ozzie from Helluva Boss, also a couple (link to Asmodeus/Ozzie if someone hasn't watched it and wants to have certain information: https://hazbinhotel.fandom.com/wiki/Asmodeus): puzzle: https://sharkrobot.com/collections/vivziepop/products/helluva-boss-fizz-ozzies-wild-night-1000-pc-puzzle ; T-shirt: https://sharkrobot.com/collections/vivziepop/products/ozzie-fizzarolli ; playmat: https://sharkrobot.com/collections/vivziepop/products/fizzarolli-ozzie-playmat

So let's move on to Charlie and Vaggie first (from Hazbin Hotel, there is no other pair to buy than the Chaggie or Charlastor in the store): pants witches: https://sharkrobot.com/collections/vivziepop/products/witches-charlie-vaggie-loungewear-pants ; pants normal: https://sharkrobot.com/collections/vivziepop/products/charlie-vaggie-pattern-loungewear-pants ; backpack witches: https://sharkrobot.com/collections/hazbin-hotel/products/witches-charlie-vaggie-mini-backpack-limited-stock ; backpack normal: https://sharkrobot.com/collections/hazbin-hotel/products/charlie-vaggie-mini-backpack

And now Charlastor: pants: https://sharkrobot.com/collections/vivziepop/products/charlie-alastor-pattern-loungewear-pants ; and backpack: https://sharkrobot.com/collections/hazbin-hotel/products/charlie-alastor-mini-backpack

So both Chaggie and Charlastor have two items in the shop (at least for now), a backpack and pants, but Chaggie has two normal or witch versions of the backpack and pants.

But the thing is that all the previous pairs, Millie-Moxxie, Stolas-Blitz, Fizz-Ozzie are canonical in the Helluva Boss series, from Hazbin Hotel we have one canonical pair Chaggie and one non Charlastor and of course you can write "it's fanservice", so where are the Alastor-Lucifer things (this ship is extremely popular), where is Husk-Dust, where are the other Helluva Boss ships... (list of Helluva Boss ships: https://shipping.fandom.com/wiki/Helluva_Boss), there are none, there are only those that are actually canon, apart from Charlastor.

In 2018, the author posted a post on Twitter (for me it will always be Twitter, sorry, I'm too old for a new name, I don't like it :D): https://twitter.com/vivziepop/status/956857844740931584?s=61 , where Vaggie was reading from a computer to describe ideal man (it's already time when Charlie and Vaggie are a couple as we see) and Charlie replies that he is dark and mysterious (I guess Alastor is dark and mysterious, right?), that he can sing (what is it that Alastor likes more than singing..., I guess only being the most important person in the room :D) and that he can play the organ and here is a link to the author's stream:

where at 19:10 she starts talking about Alastor and says that he can play the Furby organ :D

So this is a bit of an odd post for someone who wouldn't have planned for Alastor and Charlie to be together, sure it was in 2018, but still....

Besides, I will also say this... why make Charlie bisexual if she will only be in a relationship with Vaggie..., we know she is bisexual because we know she once had a boyfriend, Seviathan, but why add that to the story... and sure there are many stories of couples in which one is bi and the other is gay, but... in all the series and books on this topic that I have watched and read, it has always been connected with the thread that a bi person discovers his/her a new sexuality that she/he had no idea about before, and of course, you can also leave it like this: Charlie is bi, she used to have a boyfriend, now she has a girlfriend, and that's the end of it, but still... it just seems weird to me because it doesn't I've also come across the idea of ​​making someone bi without using it... I don't want to offend any bi person, it's just unusual for me and I would like to at least mention the fact that in all such stories (which I watched or read) bisexuality was somehow used in the story, maybe someone watched or read something where a bi person was just bi and was in a relationship or was single, without using his/her bisexuality as part of the story..., I would love to read or watch such thread :)

Moving on to the series, the parallel between Lucifer-Lilith and Charlie-Alastor, Lucifer is a fallen angel and Lilith is a human who became a demon (so we can rather assume that she went to hell as a sinner), so Charlie is half angel (after her father), half a demon (after her mother), but her appearance is entirely after her angelic father :) , Alastor, on the other hand, is a sinner who became a demon, i.e. Lucifer = angel, Charlie = angel (she looks closer to an angel, despite that she has hellish powers), Lilith=sinner/demonic, Alastor=sinner/demon, in addition we have the following screenshots in the series:

Lucifer:

Charlie:

Lilith:

Alastor:

This parallel ;) Lucifer as the softer one, Charlie as the softer one, Lilith as the scary one, Alastor as the scary one :)

Then, of course, the presumption of a relationship in the series, primarily Rosie, who delivers her memorable line, and Charlie, who rolls her eyes at this line (I still don't quite know how to interpret her eye roll, as she is annoyed that Rosie even did she think they could be together or out of annoyance that Rosie thinks Charlie is too young for Alastor, because it could go both ways, both Charlastor and anti-Charlastor :D ):

And of course Lucifer, who at first thinks that Alastor is Charlie's boyfriend and is clearly terrified and furious at this idea, just look at how Charlie looks at Alastor at that moment, and Alastor at Charlie, it's a short moment when they look at each other as if they didn't see Lucifer and the rest (of course you can see that Alastor is doing this to piss off Lucifer) and then Lucifer quickly (to break their stare) tells Charlie to introduce the others and separates Alastor and Charlie with his hands, and when Charlie introduces Vaggie to Lucifer, as his girlfriend, he is clearly relieved and happier than ever:

(1:25)

We also have foreshadowing with the bed, first we have a scene where Vaggie lies alone in bed and calls Charlie, who has already woken up a long time ago and is downstairs, and then in episode 7 we have a scene when Alastor comes to Charlie and what a coincidence that we have the moment when they both lie on a heart-shaped pillow...:

Of course, Alastor doesn't like to be touched, and yet Charlie touching and by Charlie is no problem for him:

(51:49)

(2:36:54)

He let her touch and use his microphone, his most prized possession:

And please someone explain to me what this look is..., in this look, at this moment I don't see a look like "I want to use you", but more a look like "I'm proud of you" and/or " I like you":

That's all for now, thank you for reading and have a nice day, evening or night :)

This entire post is based on 100% confirmed information with links, screenshots, etc., if I don't have a link to something, I won't post it, I want this post to be based on confirmed and verified information, with its interpretation, without any made-up things, so if anyone has such information about Charlastor, please feel free to reblog, comment, etc., as long as it is confirmed by links, screenshots, etc., so that no one will accuse you/us of "it's your imagination" ;)

[aromanticofficial]

Hi, I just wanted to send a message ONLY FOR ASKING. I want to know more about aroace people and more about aro. So I just saw some people saying they're aromantic and, for an example, lesbian SO, aromantic people are they still having a relationship like in a couple with someone and if yes, does that involve touching each other (not necessarily sex) such as hug, kiss, etc but is it more like platonic like, "I love you but don't touch me" like, I just want to understand.

(No hate, I'm just asking)

okay i'm going to go point by point just to organize my thoughts

some aros are not ace. this comes in a few varieties, such as non-split attraction aros (who feel that the label aromantic also covers their sexual orientation), or aroallos (who do experience sexual attraction without romantic attraction). some aros also feel attraction beyond romantic or sexual, such as queerplatonic or alterous or aesthetic. so if you see someone describe themself as an aro lesbian, it just means that they feel nonromantic attraction for women/femininity (with the assumption that they are a non-man)

some aros enter romantic relationships, some enter queerplatonic relationships. why they do and how they show affection is really up to the members of the relationship. (i'm going off of what partnering aros say because i am non-partnering so if someone more knowledgeable can chime in please do)