#wicked critical

[apocalypse-boogie]

I have officially decided that I’m not shipping black (& other poc) characters with white characters that have to be convinced of the poc’s humanity and worth. It’s a nice lesson for story telling purposes, I guess, but why the fuck would I want to ship a black or poc character with someone who either did call them a slur (or got really close to it), actively dehumanized them despite how fairly they were being treated by the poc character, or who had to be taught multiple times (often by the poc love interest at that) how not to be a racist/xenophobic peace of shit?

Like, that’s not romantic or sexy, and it’s not a relationship I want to see progress sexually or romantically. There’s nothing romantic in having to teach your love interest how not to treat you like shit based off only your appearance and the negative stigma associated with it. No black or poc character who has to go through that am I then going to ship with their abuser. Regular enemies to lovers is one thing (even interracially or between different species or creatures) but if the whole crux of the characters being enemies is because one person is just blatantly being racist then seeing those two characters come together isn’t compelling for me.

I’m also done accepting interracial ships where the black or poc character in the relationship gives their entire soul and effort to a white partner who barely gives any of that effort back and basically only has their black or poc s/o acting as their sidekick, assistant/lapdog, and/or nothing more than a glorified accessory. I’ve collected enough of those as is, I want better.

P.S.: On my “treating them fairly and the yt character still being racist” point, no minority group (including black and other poc people) should have to be “nice” in order to not be met with racism or bigotry. If a minority is rude or awful the response isn’t then to result to throwing slurs around or misgendering them or whatever, the response is to buck the fuck up and actually pull some creativity out your ass and insult them about the plethora of other things about their person that is the actual problem. So, yes, when I’m talking fictional romance black and poc characters being “mean” is not a suitable excuse and a ‘get out of jail free card’ for the white character they’re positioned opposite of (whether they be future friends or love interests) being racist to them or any other character of the same racial minority or species.

[mediacinemtographyartetc]

just gonna put out here, that at first I was confused as the Broadway Musical they made it clear when Elphaba was wearing the blue hat/clothes she was a student at Shiz BUT only as a Support for her Sister, hence why her clothes aren't proper in the broadway highlighting how she's unfavoured compared to her sister wearing the correct uniform. (And when she's wearing the WHITE uniform after the popular song/ Fieryo says you've been Galinda-fied she's wearing a proper uniform which hints that it was Galinda who gave her that compared to the old uniform she used to wear showing the 'make-over' Galinda gave her ) So in the movie seeing this outfit/ along with the trailers having Ariana in pink instead of the outfits of the musical such as the Yellow Dress at Oz and other such outfits-

To learn that it was to seperate from the musical make it more uniqe/ the copyright that they couldn't use the exact same outfits (at least that answered my question on why the outfits were different)

HOWEVER, having Elphaba in this cute button up and wearing black at the beggining of the movie DID explain why she wasn't wearing a uniform and why Nessa was surprised she was there. For me, I was concerned they wouldn't adapt it right, but seeing how the movie was sublte and able to progress the scene like the musical and even explained why she wore this outfit was because she wasn't a student yet.

It is a change as the father sprung it on her last minute in the movie, while as the musical made it seem as if she was their to be the aid to nessa (hence the panic/ anger when Nessarose was being wheeled away and such)

I just like how something as simple as an outfit could convey SO much, about how overbearing Elphaba's father is, his devotion to Nessarose as well as being unique and setting itself apart from the Broadway Musical. (And yes the frumpy clothes in the Broadway showing Elphaba's fathers distain is still present given that in the movie since she wasn't a student and how he favoured the YOUNGEST with an education and planned on making her a Governess and shunned the Eldest. The Phrasing was differnt but the overall message was still the same)

Genuinely obsessed with Movie!Elphaba's outfit during The Wizard and I. The SLEEVES?? All the buttons??? The silhouette???? The BOOTS????? The FUSED BODICE?????? So much DIAGONAL MICRO-PLEATING??????? AND with those thick CROSS-STITCHED leggings underneath???????? LIKE????????????

[hiddenbysuccubi]

That's definitely Fiyero. He's Fiyero. He's just in the wrong movie. But hey, that definitely IS Fieyero.

[prokopetz]

I don't have any strong opinions about Wicked (2024) as a film, but I have to admit it's very funny seeing reviewers who clearly have no prior exposure to the material outside the 1939 MGM adaptation getting their knickers in a twist about politicising the legacy of L Frank Baum.

[uisceb]

People getting all bent out of shape over Ariana and Cynthia’s Wicked interviews is so funny to me because like…I guess I’m just not surprised that the two of them are emotional about it? They just spent 3 years pouring all their energy into a very emotionally and physically demanding movie, they were fans of the original musical from 20 years ago…More to the point, they’re both clearly hyper aware of the fact that the original musical was incredibly important to people who have been othered/ostracized/abused/denied basic human rights based on race, sexuality, gender identity, disability, neurodivergence, etc, and they’re trying to be respectful of that and do right by those people, which is a pretty stressful position to put yourself in. Cynthia herself is black and queer so you know that shit’s hitting home for her, and Ariana seems to have fully understood and embraced the importance of that as well as Glinda’s own complexity and the whole concept of comphet/pleaser behavior. 

Also I know the word iconic gets thrown around a lot but these are literally ICONIC roles they’re taking on from a story that’s existed well over a hundred years that they’re essentially immortalizing by putting onto the big screen - the fact that interviewers are reacting positively to their portrayals and asking them thoughtful questions about it is probably a huge relief. Plus they seem to have formed a very genuine trusting friendship with each other where they actually feel safe enough to be that open. Like I get that the trend with actors is to be snarky and quippy and funny in interviews, but as someone who tends to be snarky and quippy as a rule of survival myself, it’s actually been kind of nice to see two actors be openly emotional and respectful of what they’re bringing into the world.

Idk it’s just super funny to me that one influencer overanalyzed their behavior and then suddenly EVERYONE jumped on the cynical bandwagon, like people really REALLY want to be angry that these two bitches…checks notes…enjoyed and valued each other and their work.

(Also like…buddy. They’re actors. Crying is kinda their thing. So is the excessive handholding. Don’t know how many of you have ever met an actor before but they really are just kinda…Like That).

[notearsnora]

Best WICKED review EVER.

[meerawrites]

They are correct and should say it louder.

Source: (x)

[mediacinemtographyartetc]

Okay just watched the movie- and now I can see that each individual shot in trailers/ gifs looks really cringe- out of context. It actually translates better in a film and I always thought the P.E fight scene was weird and just ugh-

Just to realise it's not only a FORESHADOWING of Part two, but that the movie actually added in subtle details that leads up to the finale.

My worry that Wicked wouldn't understand the nuance of morally grey, flawed characters as well as talk about sensitive discussions and be as subtle as a brick was a VALID concern given that most musicals such as Heathers, Mean Girls and others have failed to understand the core themes of what the musical was about.

And THIS scene ^^ just highlights and implies something insidious and actually gives more weight to the scene in a blink and you MISS IT.

The School of Shiz used to have other animals as teachers before one by one they all left and it was only Dr Dillimend.

However, after a destroyed tapestry of the wizard it revealed a mosiac of animals who were the ACTUALLY teachers of Shiz. Not only was the Wizard removing Animals with new laws and started his change with the education system- such as the scene of the cowardly lion in class right after removing Dillimend and claiming they belong in cages. Given that the wizard and Morrible wanted spies, the change of education teaching young minds to hate animals THIS Scene of Elphaba and Glinda fighting is not only a foreshadowing to them fighting in the Second Part of the musical-

But also a Sign of Indoctrination of Child Soldiers.

If the Wizard wanted spies, of course he won't stop of drafting kids straight out of Shiz to be his little toy soldiers this scene is traning these kids into combat.

Why else would fieryo who is a PRINCE be instead be a soldier at Oz for the Wizard?

It also explains why Madam Morrible only had Elphaba to train and then didn't teach Galinda.

It was because both Morrible and the Wizard were fruads and anyone with real power would be a threat.

But instead Madam Morrible groomed elphaba (and before people come for me, she literally strokes Elphaba's hand before she levitates the coin which felt intentional) But why she wouldn't teach others like Galinda and even puts her down hoping Galinda would quit. And why Galinda bubble is a machine, Elphaba looked easy to mold however they saw that Galinda was headstrong and got what he wanted and wouldn't be able to trust someone like that and was able to stop other students from the potential of using magic.

not dunking on Wicked as a whole just this scene but...what- why is this in the movie? Is this why the movie is split into three parts, instead of characterization it's just a madatory P.E class where they're fighting with...battons?

Musical accurate- where did this happen in the musical????

I'm not mad, just tired and confused, why was this included- I bet they have Demi lavatos confident playing over this scene as well.

I'm not mad- I'm just laughing its funny.

[hivemindscape]

the buddy-buddy act ends now

[violet-moonstone]

is the book "confusing" or does it just ask you to think instead of spoon feeding you all the answers?

is the character "unlikable" or are you being uncharitable and unused to seeing main characters as anything other than a vehicle for self projection and wish fulfillment (either someone you'd want to be or want to be friends with)?

is the writing "problematic" or does it just display complex and flawed characters navigating a cruel world?

are the sex scenes "gratuitous" or do you just have puritan sensibilities and think that sex is something that needs to be justified because you think it cheapens art?

does "nothing happen" in the book or are you expressing your subjective preference for plot-driven stories as an objective evaluation on the book's value?

did the book "traumatize" you or is that just a term you throw around loosely to describe anything that upsets or disturbs you?

remember that one scene at shiz where elphaba says she likes to read things that challenge her because she likes to think about what she reads, and glinda stares at her like she's speaking gibberish?

yeah.

Don't get me wrong, I do understand why people don't like Maguire's writing but there is a growing trend of people hating any fiction that challenges them.

I saw a review where someone was saying they "weren't a pearl clutcher, but..." and then in the next sentence proceeded to clutch pearls. Your tolerance for bizarre fiction isn't as high as you thought it was. That's fine. It doesn't mean the book is bad.

Imagine reading a book for adults and then finding mature topics in it. The horror!

Maybe instead of blaming the author, blame whatever person or circumstances led to to believe it was a kids' book. *Hint* it was probably the popularity of the musical adaptation and the book reprints with the musical cover on it. Can't wait for more people to watch the movie and then read the book expecting it to be sunshine and rainbows. (No hate to the movie, btw it actually looks pretty good).

[darlingod]

When someone criticizes a book or character that I love:

[undead-knick-knack]

I've seen it on a couple posts. I don't know how widespread, I am in queer media

[lizzybeeee]

DATV is overly reliant on Supplemental Media - especially if you are a returning player

TL;DR: Supplemental material should not be required reading in order to understand what's going on in the main game -> it's additional material that enhances what we were given. If what we were given is lacking and unable to coherently tell us a story, then the writers and those in charge did not prioritize what was important.

Not a take that's unique to Dragon Age, but one that is very relevant when talking about DATV. I've made a few posts about plot/story points that either make no sense or have been dropped entirely in the lead up from DAI to DATV. Every now and then I get a few comments or messages about how certain points I made were addressed in supplemental material released in the lead up to this games release.

This isn't a call out post, by the way! But it's frustrating, to me, that this games writing is so lacking that my understanding is being inhibited because I can't remember details from a book I read two years ago - not to mention various podcasts, comics, and short stories. My understanding of a video game in a video game series should not be reliant on additional/optional content.

DATV is a weird game in that it is absolutely a 'soft/scorched earth' reboot while also marketing itself as a continuation to what was set up in Inquisition and Trespasser. Personally, I think that if you are up to number 4 in a game series, one with a continuous story-line, it should be expected that new players won't be able to catch up to everything -> it's the game developers job to make the world and story intriguing enough that the new players will go back to previous games in the series and fill in the blanks themselves.

Veilguard, as a sequel, is overly reliant on content that comes from outside the games themselves (including DLC's) if you want to make sense of the world and story. Trespasser left us with an epilogue that set up some plot points for the next game: Solas & the Veil, the Elven Rebellion, and War with the Qun - plot points that have been built up since the time of Origins. But when we get into DATV two of these points have been dropped and resolved, off-screen.

There are more questions, but these are the ones that bothered me the most while playing the game:

What happened to the Agents of Fen'harel/ Elven Rebellion? -> answered in a cursed reddit AMA.

What happened to the Qunari following Trespasser -> addressed in Tevinter Nights, and a codex entry you can pick up (optional).

Why is Skyhold infested with demons? -> mentioned in Tevinter Nights.

How did the Dalish go from worshiping their own pantheon to knowing they are false gods? (specifically those we meet in the Veil Jumpers) -> mentioned in the Missing comic series.

What's up with Nevarra's Royals? -> Tevinter Nights addresses that there is a power struggle in the Pentaghast family and the role of the Mortalitasi in making it worse - though it does not address the whole 'mage puppeting a corpse' issue and all the implications it has.

This is a video game series -> the bulk of the information required for me to understand the story and its relation to previous entries needs to be included in the final game version. I am playing a video game and not attending a uni class - I should not need to have a required reading list in order to understand what the fuck is going on. I should definitely not need to go onto a reddit AMA to understand what happened in-game, either.

What makes this stand out the most is that DAI was very successful in tying in previous games, DLC's, movies, and books! Inquisition did a great job in getting you up to speed on the events of the previous games early on, providing personalization if you played those games, and giving the player the opportunity to inquire into these events.

Hiding away the answers in additional material or a codex entry that may be missed is not good game design or good writing. DAI didn't assume that you had bought and played the Legacy DLC -> it made certain you experienced the conversation with Varric and Hawke if you wanted to proceed in the game. It didn't hide away imperative information in codex entries - it had characters talk about it in scripted scenes and encourage the player to ask more. You would actively need to avoid interacting with characters for you to not experience this information in DAI.

Leliana talks about her role during the Blight, her calling by the Maker, and her relationship with Dorothea/Justinia -> DAO and Leliana's Song DLC.

Cullen talks about his time as a templar at Kinloch & Kirkwall -> DAO and DA2.

Cassandra speaks about her history, investigation into Hawke, and the Seekers -> Dawn of the Seeker movie, DA2, & Asunder novel.

Varric talks about Hawke, Kirkwall, and Corypheous -> DA2 and Legacy DLC.

Cole talks about how he discovered he was a 'demon' - it leads to further conversations about Rhys, Evangeline, and Lord-Seeker Lambert -> Asunder novel.

Wicked Eyes and Wicked Hearts -> the game literally continues what the Masked Empire novel sets up, the Orlesian Civil War. The game does a decent job of telling us about the players (Celene, Gaspard, Briala etc...) and the reasoning behind the conflict through dialogue, the ability to explore the battlefields, quests, ambient dialogue, etc... The book is not required reading - though it greatly adds to the complexity of the characters, motivations, and political intrigue!

I never once, playing DA2 or DAI, felt penalized or like my experience was lacking because I had not engaged with supplemental material or DLC's. I got into Dragon Age when I was in high school, it wasn't until I graduated and began working after that I had the disposable income available for experiencing the extra material. I cannot say that for DATV - If you have played Inquisition and go into DATV straight from that you will, absolutely, be confused about how we got from A to B.

Which is especially strange to me!? Why is it that new players will be less confused than those that are returning players? It's like the game is actively punishing you for playing and caring about previous games in the series.

Supplemental media is bought because the main product has earned your investment, love, or interest. Not everyone has the income available to buy it with their own money - especially if you live outside the US and have to pay additional shipping costs. Not everyone has the ability to buy or 'obtain' the digital versions either. My understanding of the main story of a video game in a video game series should not require additional monetary investment into other mediums.

The game itself should be enough and DATV is not enough.

[dorotheaart]

While watching Mighty Nein of Critical Role I sketched Caleb as if he were a villain. It's funny, but I did it exactly before I saw the series with his backstory...

[antivivziepopparade]

Just noticed something wrong...

I finally watched Wicked (the movie) and I just realized something.

Vivziepop focuses on how a musical feels, but not how it makes us think. She thinks about the spectacle, the glamour, when in reality what matters most is that the music tell a story.

So far we got:

All of Stolas's songs, which are just emotional fluff that doesnt even have a story connection EXCEPT for mastermind. They just come out of nowhere to be "OH WOE IS STOLAS!" and nothing else. :/

Loser Baby, which just throws insults at Angel Dust and "empowering" visuals to look like theyre "bonding" when in reality Husk is just calling Angel a "whiny bitch!" for being a sa victim. (Gross!)

Loo Loo Land, once again, for spectacle and nothing else storywise despite easily having explained Blitz's backstory with RoboFizz a bit more or AT LEAST him threatning Blitz somehow.

-and besides that, I cant even name a song that has actual plot relevance besides Charlie's intro song and MAYBE Respectless.

Its honestly an insult to musicals. Really, it really is.

Musicals are so much more than "WOW! This looks and sounds cool!"

They tell a story.

Viv just wants the "WOW!" factor, not the story relevance or interesting storytelling as much as the actually decent musicals such as Cats or Wicked. Saying this all as a theater kid.

[grayintogreen]

I was still debating it by second episode, but now I’m 100% positive.

The characters are absolutely based on the main crew of The Wizard of Oz.

Malcolm is the Tin Man (metal arm, family works in munitions).

Edgar is the Scarecrow (tall, spindly, has burns on his body)

Leo is the Lion (cowardly, foppish, literally named after a lion)

Grimoria is Dorothy, a little girl desperately trying to find a home.